Flagstaff Council Approves $3M Adaptive Reuse Bond, but Splits 6–1 Over Transitional Housing Eligibility

Okay, we are ready to get started. Today is Tuesday, September 2nd, 2025. This is the city council's regular meeting. I am calling this to order. Can we have roll call? Mayor Daget. here. Vice Mayor here. Council member Alen here. Council member Garcia present online. Council member House. I'm here. Council member Matthews here. Council member Spence here. Thank you.

And um notice is hereby given to the members of the city council and the general public that at this regular meeting the city council may vote to go into an executive session which will not be open to the public for discussion and consultation with the city's attorneys for legal advice on any item listed on the following agenda. Council member Spence, would you lead us in the pledge of allegiance? Please join me if you're able. United States. Council member House. Thank you, Mayor.

The mission of the city of Flagstaff is to protect and enhance the quality of life for all. Vice Mayor, the Flagstaff City Council humbly acknowledges the ancestral homelands of this area's indigenous nations and original stewards. These lands still inhabited by native descendants border mountain sacred to indigenous peoples. We honor them, their legacies, their traditions, and their continued contributions.

We celebrate their past, present, and future generations who will forever know this place as home. All right. Next up, we have open call to the public. This allows the public to address the council on any item that is not listed on tonight's agenda. Uh you have three minutes. There's a clock right here. And because whatever you're going to speak to us about is not on the agenda, we can't uh respond to you. Answer questions, ask questions, whatever. And All right, first up we have Colleen Maring.

Good afternoon, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Council. My name is Colleen Mering. I'm the chief people officer at Northern Arizona Healthcare. And one of the questions we get asked most about and I'm sure you as well is our plans for a new hospital in Flagstaff. Um, as you know, we are still planning to construct a modern regional referral hospital here.

It's a key component of the new strategic plan that um uh many of you all uh participated in helping us craft and we talked about um over the last few weeks as we rolled that out. Um, we're continuing to look into multiple sites um in the Flagstaff area to determine what site can best meet the needs of our community. Um, not just Flagstaff, but the entire um region of Northern Arizona.

One of those sites is the current FMC location, but as you've heard from um our CEO Dave Genie, uh the construction of a modern facility that can accommodate all of the people in our region um on the current site would be so disruptive to our current ability to provide care. Tearing down half the hospital, ceasing services for years um closing our doors to people during those years is not something that we feel we could meet. um the community's needs and take care of our community.

Um one of the one of the reasons that we need a new hospital uh is is similar to the reason why we don't want to tear down the old one while we're still using it. And it's about weight times and about um the perception of inability to access care. I know you all hear about this as well, and I want you all to feel um prepared to talk to your constituents about how we can be um uh assured that we're able to care for people in the emergency department when they come to us.

First and foremost, our doors are open to all at all times and we'll make sure the people who need care get care. Um, but because we're so limited upstairs in the hospital as we call it, we've got about 260 inpatient beds, but many of them are dedicated to specific units, psychiatry or the NICU or um specialized ICUs. Almost every day and every single day this summer, every single physical med surge bed has been filled that can be filled.

Um that's also often true at our sister facility at the other facility we own in Cottonwood. So this morning we started the day with absolutely no general inpatient beds available and 19 general inpatients admitted already in our emergency department. That means that 19 beds in our emergency department should have been upstairs.

And that meant that every person who came in the door had to wait or be treated in the waiting room in a non ideal situation um while we tried to move people through the rest of the house. I know I'm out of time. Again, um we want people to know that we're open and we can care for you, but it doesn't always look and feel like it should when we have to care for you in an overcrowded ED while we try to make space upstairs. Thank you. Thank you, Aiden Rutled. Good afternoon, mayor and council.

My name is Aiden Rutled. I'm with the city's housing office. Tomorrow evening from 4:30 to 6 in this room, we are hosting a home buyer resource and education event in partnership with Housing Solutions of Northern Arizona and Northern Arizona Association of Realtors. This event is free, open to the public, and will be offered both in person and online.

This event is especially important because it marks the launch of the expanded community home buyer assistance program or CHAP funded through the 2022 voter approved housing bond. CHAP now provides up to $50,000 in down payment and closing cost assistance for eligible first-time Flagstaff home buyers through a loan to be paid back at the time of resale.

To address an increasingly inaccessible housing market, eligibility now extends to households earning up to 150% of the area immediate income, or about 152,000 for a family of three. Tomorrow's event will help residents uh understand how to access this program and prepare for home ownership. Attendees will walk through the steps of the home buying process, gain tools to strengthen their financial readiness, and connect directly with housing professionals during a Q&A session.

The goal is that everyone leaves with the knowledge and resources to pursue home ownership with confidence. On behalf of the housing office and the greater Flagstaff community, uh, I want to thank you, mayor and council, for your leadership in making this program expansion a reality. And I also want to thank the Flagstaff voters whose investment in affordable housing solutions will help families remain and invest in the community they call home.

For anyone interested, more information and the registration link for both in person and online attendance is on the housing office Facebook page. And for those who cannot attend, a recording will be posted on the city's website afterwards. Thank you, and I hope to see you there. Thank you, Kenzie Marino. Good afternoon, Mayor and Council. My name is Kenzie Marino with the city's sustainability office.

I'm here to announce the opening of the Flagstaff Sustainability Grant and invite our community to apply. This program offers up to $7,500 to support local projects that make Flagstaff more sustainable and resilient. Whether you're an individual, a neighborhood group, a school, or a business, we encourage you to apply. Projects can focus on energy, food, transportation, waste, or community health and resilience.

In the past, funded projects include workshops on growing food at high altitude, recycling infrastructure in Flagstaff schools, energy upgrades for community gathering spaces, and much more. These are grassroots projects led by Flagstaff residents that enhance community sustainability and promote climate action through community partnerships. Applications are open now through September 30th. Please spread the word.

Grant materials, details about support hours, past project examples, and my contact information can be found on our website at flagstaff.az.govfsg. We also have flyers on the back table, so grab one on your way out. I'll send an email to the council shortly with a sharable email and digital flyer. We would appreciate your support in sharing information about this in important grant opportunity. Together, let's keep building a sustainable future. Thank you. Thank you, Alan Winninger.

Did I get the pronunciation correct? Yeah, it's close enough. Mr. Mayor, I mean, Mrs. Mayor and council members, I am going to be back home in probably about 20 minutes picking up my son from school. Couple of weeks ago, that may not have happened. My son's life could have been taken at Flagstaff High. We need a permanent onduty school resource officer now. They caught the student with a weapon at the school. So, he was able to bring a weapon to school.

Today, we had a lockdown because of an attempted possibility of a weapon at school. Okay. All the people behind me that have students or children in school need to feel know that they are their students and their children are safe every day. Flagstaff Police does an amazing job. I know they have the ability and the resources coming, but the city needs to get behind this and double it. Not just one officer.

You need three because I don't want a phone call from the school to tell me to come down to identify my son. I deserve better. My son deserves better. This happens. It didn't get on the news. Didn't make it like Phoenix and every, you know, all the media coverage and all that. I've kept my mouth shut until today when I got an alert that there was another lockdown. This needs to get fixed today. Thank you. All right.

Before we move into proclamations, I just want to let you know that we are going to reorder a piece of the um agenda. So on item number 10 under public hearing items after a we are going to be hearing um item B that's listed under 11 under the regular agenda. It should be listed under public hearing items. So it will be 10 A and then B and then the regular agenda will be 11 A C. Yeah. And no B. Hopefully that was understandable. All right.

So we have a couple of proclamations and um council will meet at the end of the day and then we'll invite anyone who's here for that proclamation to join us. I'll read the proclamation. We'll take a photo and then if someone from your group would like to speak, you can say a few words. So the first proclamation is ovarian cancer awareness month and the second is hunger action month. We put you on the spot. It's right there. And we have someone online too. Is that correct? Okay.

Ovarian cancer is the fifth leading cause of cancer related death among women in the United States. And the American Cancer Society estimates that in 2025 approximately 20,890 women will be diagnosed with ovarian cancer and 12,730 will die from the disease nationwide, including an estimated 470 new cases and 330 deaths in Arizona.

In the United States, a woman's lifetime risk of being diagnosed with ovarian cancer is about 1 in 91 and her lifetime risk of dying from the disease is approximately 1 in 143. Due to vague non-specific symptoms and the absence of reliable early detection tests, most women are not diagnosed until stage three or later when the cancer has already begun to spread beyond the ovaries.

Although the 5-year survival rate for stage 1 ovarian cancer exceeds 90%, only 15% of cases are diagnosed at this early stage. For those diagnosed in later stages, the five-year survival rate drops below 20 below 30%. While screening tools such as mammograms and pap tests exist for breast and cervical cancers, no equivalent screening test exists for ovarian cancer, making awareness of symptoms and risk factors essential for early intervention.

Increased public education about ovarian cancer can help save lives by promoting earlier diagnosis, supporting access to gynecologic oncology care, and encouraging research funding for better detection and treatment options.

This month, the city of Flagstaff joins all those who are battling ovarian cancer, those who have lost their lives, their families and caregivers, and our dedicated health care professionals in raising awareness, promoting education, and fostering hope for earlier diagnosis, improved treatments, and ultimately a cure.

Now therefore, I, Becky Daget, mayor of the city of Flagstaff, Arizona, encourage all residents to participate in awareness activities and engage in conversations that help save lives and support the families affected by this devastating disease. I do hereby proclaim September 2025 as ovarian cancer awareness month. [Applause] So Rachel, if you want to go ahead and say Rachel, if you would like to go ahead and unmute, you're welcome to turn your camera on as well and can offer some words.

All right, great. Thank you guys so much for having me and hi Olga. So great to see you. I'm just going to talk a little bit more about ovarian cancer if you don't mind. So ovarian cancer is one of the deadliest cancers impacting women. Yet it remains one of the most underfunded and least understood. Each year in the United States, nearly 20,000 women are diagnosed and over 12,700 will lose their lives to this disease. A staggering 64% mortality rate.

Here in Arizona, hundreds of women face this devastating diagnosis each year. And sadly, more than 75% are diagnosed in advanced stages due to vague symptoms and the lack of a reliable early detection test. The five-year survival rate remains below 50% and shockingly that number hasn't improved in decades. At age 38, I was diagnosed with stage 3A lowgrade cerosis ovarian cancer or LGSOC. A rare form of ovarian cancer that disproportionately impacts young premenopausal women.

This insiduous disease has no standard of care, is chronic, and experiences an 85% recurrence rate. The impact on my life and my family as a result has been profound. Like many women that face LGSOC, I lost my ability to have biological children with no time or guidance to preserve fertility. Cancer robbed my husband and I of the dreams we had yet not yet fulfilled. And these losses still echo through every day of survivorship.

As a five-year survivor, it's heart-wrenching to think that I have beaten the odds. But even worse, there are more devastating stories of those who did not. One of them is my dear friend Jordan and my first mentee, who died last September during Sep ovarian cancer awareness month, just one day after her 33rd birthday. Jordan was vibrant, brilliant, and full of hope.

I had the privilege of running the Disney Princess 10K with her last February, which was only seven short months prior to her passing. Jordan's last words to me were, "I'm so glad you're fighting for awareness of this disease. I just don't have it in me right now. Thank you, and I love you." Jordan's death crushed me, but I made her a promise to continue fighting for her and every woman still waiting for earlier detection, better treatment, and a real chance at survival.

Women like Jordan deserve more. They deserve better. They deserve a future that begins with awareness which leads to earlier diagnosis, research resources, and ultimately survivor. And that is why this September, I'm asking for your help. Thank you for standing with survivors, honoring those we have lost, and helping to protect women across Flagstaff, Arizona.

Together, we can shine a light on this gravely overlooked disease and give hope to women and families in our communities who need it the most. Thank you. [Applause] We have um a speaker card for this. Celia Barretts. Thank you, Mayor, members of the council. I wasn't planning on speaking, but I decided to come up and let you all know and the public know that genetic screening is so important in diagnosing ovarian cancer.

And I had a genetic test in 2019 and I was diagnosed with Bracka 2, which predisposes you to ovarian cancer and breast cancer. Very, very high risk. I'm an Ashkanazi Jew. That puts me in that category. So I had the re one of the recommended procedures and they found ovarian cancer but I am a survivor because they found it at stage one and I don't have any further danger supposedly because I was a screen for five years.

So I urge people to talk to their health care providers about genetic testing because it saves lives. Thank you. All right, next up we have hunger action month. So come on down everyone who's here for this Tim. Hunger Action Month is a nationwide month-long hunger awareness campaign intended to raise food funds and awareness about hunger in communities across the United States. In Arizona, over 1 million people suffer from food insecurity.

Lack of consistent access to food is a problem for one in five adults, one in four children, and one in seven seniors in Arizona. The need for hunger relief services is even higher in Cookanino County with 16.1% of the population considered food insecure and over half of children in Flagstaff qualifying for free or reduced lunch.

The Flagstaff Family Food Center provides the most extensive and wide-reaching emergency food support for the Flagstaff and broader community, serving 2,300 individuals through all programs across Northern Arizona per day. Serving 2,300 individuals through all programs across Northern Arizona per day.

The city of Flag Staff, mayor and council encourages all community members to work to support the efforts of organizations that provide hunger relief services and long-term solutions to poverty to our most vulnerable neighbors.

Now therefore, I, Becky Daget, mayor of the city of Flagstaff, Arizona, do hereby proclaim September 2025 as Hunger Action Month in Cookanino County, Arizona, and call upon the citizens of the city of Flagstaff to join community agencies in a partnership of understanding and compassion to make to make our community a healthier, safer, more connected community where families have the resources and opportunities ities to improve their well-being. [Applause] All right.

My name is Ethan Amos and I'm the president and CEO of the Flagstaff Family Food Center. So, I'm super happy to be here today. Um, thanks for inviting us. We're the food bank um locally here, so I'm sure that we're the first ones that get called with these kinds of things. Uh but there's so many people who are doing amazing work. There's a bunch of smaller pantries within our region that are doing um amazing things as well.

So, I just want to acknowledge uh those partners and uh some of our volunteers. We have approximately 8,000 volunteers that come to our food center in different ways and many times throughout the year. And when you think about the population of Flagstaff, I mean, that's just a wonderful number. And uh and our data kind of sucks, so it's probably a little bit higher than that. So, but 8,000 is good. In case anyone fact checks me, uh there's so much to talk about.

I think for me, this is a true metric of success for the hard work that we've done at the food center. And when I say we, I'm talking about um our folks on the forklift, our folks driving the trucks every day, uh rain, snow, or shine, our folks who are at the kitchen cooking uh every day in 34 years, almost 35 years, our uh our kitchen program has been open. It's never been closed and we've always provided food. Um which is amazing and we're so proud of that.

To put that in perspective uh around the need, I would like to take you back to 2022 when we served 27,000 meals out of that same kitchen program. These are prepared meals uh out of the kitchen in 2022. Uh September 2nd today, we just cleaned up our data for August, we served 50,000 for the first time ever. Um, and that's a number that I wish we could boast about and clap about, but that's a number that reflects the need that's continuing to rise and rise and rise.

So, it's really going to take a community effort. This gesture means the world to us. So, thanks to the mayor, vice mayor, and council, and I invite you all to be a part of the work as well as community members. We're going to continue the celebration on September 4th, which is Thursday, at our anti-hunger summit. It's here in town. And in celebration of today, would like to offer you a free ticket. So, you go to hotfood.org and you use the partner access code ticket option to register.

Anyone here can use that for free. I guess we're online too, so now everyone knows. Um, but it waves a ticket fee and would love to have you all join. It's going to be amazing content, amazing. You're going to learn amazing things about how you can fight. And so, thank you all. Thanks again. [Applause] All right. Next up is council liaison reports and I'll start with council member Spence. I have nothing today. Council member House. Thank you, Mayor.

Um, this past week, the housing commission met and heard the 2024 2025 tenure housing plan annual report and a presentation and discussion of city-owned land for housing. Um, I sadly had to miss the last uh Commission on Diversity Awareness meeting due to travel, but know that they discussed the upcoming Hispanic Heritage Month proclamation and had a presentation from the Townsite Community Land Trust and their next meeting is scheduled for September 17th.

Um, I also was able last week to attend the third quarter Cookanino County crisis system meeting, which brings together agencies across uh healthcare, the justice system, and crisis intervention teams and resources to improve the crisis system across our county, including the city of Flagstaff. So, all good stuff and looking forward to next month. Vice Mayor, thank you. Just real quick, um there is a metro plan meeting this Thursday 1 to 3 at the new downtown connection center.

Council member Alen, Madame May, I'm going to pass today. Council member Garcia, are you online? Yes, I am, Madame Mayor, but I um since they had cancelled the library meeting this past week, we will uh I have nothing new to report. The next meeting will be for parks and wreck next month. Thank you. Thank you. Is council member Matthews online? I am, mayor. I have I we did have a uh mountain line meeting, but I will hold that until next meeting when I'm in person. Thank you very much. Great.

Thank you. And nothing from me. So, we will move down to appointments. We have uh three appointments to the housing commission and let's see we're assigned who does what. So, I am to make one appointment to a lowincome housing expert position, as is council member House. And then council member Garcia is to make one appointment to a builder and real estate professional uh position. Council member um I know I am all right. Um, again, I'd like to thank all of the applicants.

It's always, uh, it's really gratifying to read through the applications and talk to the applicants, uh, to see people who are willing to give so much time to the city and our commissions are a good deal of time. So, thank you. I would like to appoint Jennifer Vargas. I'll second. Any discussion? All those in favor? I. Any oppos? Any opposed? All right. Council member House. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, yes, this is a tough one.

There were so many great applicants and a number of folks that I I believe will add um really impressive um insights into the conversation. I am going to move to appoint Sarah Miles to the housing commission. a second. Wait a minute. Am I looking at an old Sarah's name on this list? I believe you that she's there, but her name is not on this. Hold on. Is she on all of your lists? Is she on your list?

If maybe we can have staff review and make sure I have the right I looked at the packet of applicants for the housing commission. I wonder if she withdrew or her name just wasn't Apologies. Yes, she was included in the applicant package. Um, but the name got missed putting it in the staff summary. So, you're good to make the appointment. Thank you. So, we have a motion and a second. Sorry about that. Um, any discussion? All those in favor? I I Any opposed? All right. And Council Member Garcia.

Uh, thank you, Madame Mayor. I um it would be an honor to make an appointment to the builders and real estate professionals realtor position um to and I'd like to uh grant that to Jackie Kellogg and welcome her back. She is a current commissioner. And I'd also like to throw a bone out there for the public, those who are in the builders and real estate professionals to apply for this position in the future. Do we have a second? I'll second. Any discussion? All those in favor? I. Any oppos?

Any opposed? All right, we're moving down to consent agenda. All matters under the consent agenda are considered by the city council to be routine. Unless a member of the city council expresses a desire at the meeting to remove an item from the consent agenda for discussion, the agenda will be enacted by one motion approving the recommendations. Unless otherwise indicated, expenditures approved by council are budgeted items. And I believe vice mayor, you had something you'd like to pull.

I want to pull it just for a comment. Um if possible 8B B 8B 8B 8B 8B All right. Go ahead. Thank you. So, do we want to approve without this or or we let's go ahead and hear your comment and then we'll go back and approve the consent agenda and we'll cons it it'll be two different items now. Great. Thank you. Um so my comment I just wanted to thank staff and our partners at Eagle Mountain Construction for bringing this critical phase forward.

The Wildcat Interceptor Upsizing Project is one of the most important infrastructure investments we can make to ensure Flagstaff is prepared for future growth. And I wanted to go on record to say that I'm very supportive of this amendment and I'm ready to move this forward. Thank you. Can I get a motion to approve 8A? So moved. Is there any discussion? I'll second. Thank you. Uh any discussion? All those in favor? I. Any opposed? All right. So 8B. Can I have a motion to approve?

I move to approve approve 8B. Second. Any discussion? All those in favor? I I. Any opposed? All right. We're moving down to routine items now. 9A consideration and adoption of ordinance number 2025-18. This is reading for the final time. Staff, do you have anything to add? This is an ordinance of the city council. Oh, go ahead. Uh, sorry, Mayor Det. This is Aaron Young. I'm online if there are any questions. Okay. Um, amending flight staff city code title 7 health and sanitation council.

Do you have any questions for Erin? All right. Then I will entertain a motion to approve item 9A. I mean to read the ordinance by title for the final time. Mayor, I move that we read ordinance number 2025-8 by title. Thank you. And a second. A second. Any discussion? All those in favor? I I. Any opposed? City clerk.

An ordinance of the city council of the city of Flagstaff amending title 7 health and sanitation chapter 7-03 city water system regulations of the Flagstaff city code by amending section 7-03-00001-000011 water main capacity charges providing for penalties repeal of conflicting ordinances severability and establishing an effective date. Thank you. And can I get a motion to adopt? I move that we adopt ordinance number 2025-18. Is there a second? I'll second. Any discussion? All those in favor? I.

Any opposed? All right. Moving down to B. Consideration and adoption of ordinance number 2025-15. This is an ordinance of the city council of the city of Flagstaff authorizing the acquisition of real property interest for the Wildcat Interceptor sewer upsizing project and hello Bryce. Any questions for staff? We've already had the discussion. All right. I am Thank you, Bryce. I am looking for a motion to read the ordinance by title only for the final time.

Mayor, I will move to read ordinance number 2025-15 by title only for the final time. I'll second. Any discussion? All those in favor? I I Any opposed? All right. City clerk. An ordinance of the city council of the city of Flagstaff authorizing the acquisition of real property interests for the Wildcat Interceptor sewer upsizing project. providing for delegation of authority, providing for severability, authority for clerical corrections, and establishing an effective date. Thank you.

Can I have a motion to adopt? Mayor, I'll move to adopt ordinance number 2025-15. I'll second. Any discussion? All those in favor? I. Any opposed? All right. Moving down to C. Consideration and adoption of ordinance number 2025-14. This is an ordinance of the city council ratifying the grants of easements and real property and formally accepting grants of easements and real property. Again, um any additional questions for Bryce? All right.

I'm looking for a motion to read the ordinance by title only for the final time. I'd like to move that we read ordinance number 20254 by title only for the final time. I'll second. Any discussion? All those in favor? I. Any opposed? City clerk.

An ordinance of the city council of the city of Flagstaff ratifying the grant of easements and formally accepting dedications of easements and real property interests, providing for severability, authority for clerical corrections, and establishing an effective date. Thank you. And a motion to adopt. I move that we adopt ordinance number 2025-14. I'll second. I second. Any discussion? All those in favor? I I. Any opposed?

All right, we're moving down to item D, consideration and approval of contract. This a change order number one with Eagle Mountain Construction. Hello Trevor. Good afternoon. Good afternoon, council. Your honor, Trevor Henry. I am the capital improvements engineer for the city of Flagstaff. And the item this afternoon before you is change order number one to Spruce Wash GMP number four. And just a little bit of history on the Spruce Wash program.

So this is Cedar Crossing, which is this map that we normally show. So we are number five here and it was amendment number four that came before you October 1st of last year and it was for the removal of an existing box cover culvert and then the replacement of a new concrete arch box cover culvert. Included was concrete sidewalk curb gutter and some asphalt pavement overlay. Um also included was utility adjustments to uh get the box fit in there.

So the utilities had to go around it and underneath it. So GMP number four was $1,949,000 and it's funded by Proposition 441 which is fund 410 which is the spruce wash program and also with a FEMA hazard mitigation grant in the amount of $990,000. So that was the Cedar Crossing last October that was before you and it was approved. So we have tonight change order number one.

And so we are seeking approval of change order number one with Eagle Mountain Construction in the amount of 1,990,330 to the Cedar Crossing GMP number four and it's for the Spruce Wash flood mitigation suite of projects. So what staff is recommending tonight or this afternoon is approval of that change order and to have the city manager execute the necessary documents. So what is change order number one? So this is a quick picture of the Cedar Avenue corridor.

So, at the very top left is the intersection of West Street and Cedar. And then we're going towards the east all the way down, jumping down to the bottom picture, continuing along Cedar, and we're going to end right where the roundabout project ended their improvements. So, included is full width mill and overlay of the pavement. And then you can see these little uh green dots. Those are ADA ramps that will be placed at intersections.

Also included are the little yellow triangles, but they look like dots here. Those are driveway improvements. Also included are areas of sidewalk that are damaged or need to be replaced. So everything there is what's going to be included with change order number one. Also, you see there's some striping and that will also be included with change order number one. And this is for Cedar Avenue. Here's West Street. So, just north of the intersection of West Street and Cedar going to the north.

Again, we're going to have full mill and overlay of the pavement. And then we'll have striping. And again, we have a couple driveways that we're going to place. So, the intersection of cedar was shown on the previous slide. So we will have ADA improvement ramps at those sections all but one. One will be added later with a different project that will come before you.

So this is change order number one and we have about 18,400 square yards of asphalt that will be mil and then we'll replace that same amount. And again that is for both Cedar Avenue and West Street. again concrete driveways, sidewalk, curb and gutter, and those are in areas that need to be replaced. So, it's not the full improvements for the entire corridor. So, it's just areas that are damaged or non-compliant.

There's no time associated with change order number one because it's covered under the the bigger program and we do plan to be done next summer roughly with the entire program. Again, that's um $1,990,000 that will be um added to amendment number four GMP4 and it's funded by proposition 441 with supplement coming from road repair and street safety. So one thing I did want to add here is why are we doing this change order for the Milan overlay.

So the city does with their street maintenance program, they they take a look at streets, they evaluate them. It's called an OCI, an overall condition index. And Cedar Avenue was getting there. But because we're working in this corridor, we had a lot of good construction happening with the Spruce Wash program and the contractor was working in the street. There's some marring of the pavement.

So this was just a really good coordination effort between divisions, between programs to add this change order, the milling overlay, which also included concrete um curbon gutter edge edge improvements and stuff like that. So that's kind of why we're here before you tonight with this change order.

It's a really good coordination effort and it's also a good way to complete this corridor and then we're done with either the the Milan overlay with the Spruce Wash and with the Cedar Fourth roundabout. What we're doing with the Spruce Wash program is we are doing a lot of public outreach and coordination efforts. So we have Beta PR. They are a firm that was hired at the beginning of the program and they are still on and helping us with the outreach.

So what they do is they provide weekly e newsletters which provides updates on construction and it goes out to whoever wants to be wants to sign up for that. So that goes out weekly giving advice, giving direction, giving information on what we're doing with the program. They also do what they call walk the corridor campaign which they talk to businesses, they talk to residents, they just inform them and they know who to talk to and they hear information.

It gets back to the team and we can address any issues. What we're going to do with this change order number one is a traffic control plan where we're going to do lane shifts and again that's a means and methods for the contractor. So, they are going to do work on one side of the street and then traffic will be on the other side and then that'll flop again when they get ready to to do the other side. And that'll be the same scenario for West Street and Cedar Avenue.

If we impact a driveway, if we're going to redo a driveway, we can do it half at a time. That's usually standard. So that gives the resident or the business the option to get in while we do work on the other half. But there are cases where residents or businesses say just do it the do the entire thing so that way we get it done. We don't have to worry about prolonged two week duration for the activity there. And that's has happened before and we're able to accommodate them.

So, we're planning to begin work probably midepptember and we'll be done the first part of December. So, we're going to have about eight weeks on Cedar Avenue and about four weeks on West Street. And again, this is all weather dependent if we have some winter that starts early. We'll make accommodations and we'll work as best we can. But this is our plan going forward with change order number one. And so now I wanted to give a little bit of update on the roundabout project.

Um it's been in the news lately. We do hear good things and we also hear some things where maybe it could be a little better, but that happens. So what I wanted to provide to you is on the right side of the picture is the final roundabout picture configuration of what it looks like. Uh this was taken a few days after it was open. If you remember, this is an AOT city project where AOT is administering the contract.

So they hired the contractor and in their documents, their contract documents, they had a closure from the first part of May to the first part of August and that coincided with the school being out for a vacation. So it was closed. They took out the existing intersection and then replaced it with the roundabout that you see on the right. Everything is complete temporary striping. So what you see in the picture there is temporary striping.

So they still need to do the final application of the striping. And right now that is planned for September 13th. That is a Saturday. And the closure will be from 5:00 a.m. to midnight. And that will help the contractor get in there. all the layout, then do the actual striping, and then allow the striping to cure and set and dry. So, that'll take roughly a good part of the day. If it finishes sooner, they'll open it sooner, but they're planning from 5:00 a.m. to midnight.

And that'll just help keep the crews safe, keep traffic going around uh the intersection, and um also allow the final configuration to set up again. So, what we've done before we settled on September 13th is we reached out to the school. This was Beta PR and the capital project manager. They reached out to the schools, to the library, the community college to make September 13th, there was no events, nothing big happening. There wasn't, so they were fine with that.

We talked to Mountain Line and they were okay with going back to the old detour bus route that they had in place when we had the bigger closure for one day and then we're going to announce those in the e newsletter. So that'll get out to everybody that wants to know about the project and get updates. One other item is what we're going to do. For this one particular day, September 13th, we are going to have a detour map for the vehicles.

We're going to have a pedestrian detour map for people that are walking the corridor. What you see here, the X is the intersection or the roundabout. And then the yellow is basically the available detour route for pedestrians and for vehicles. And this is what they used for for the larger closure. for that one that happened during the summer. So, this is the same detour map for both pedestrians and vehicles. And that'll be in place again September 13th, 5:00 a.m. to roughly midnight.

And again, if they're done sooner, it'll be open sooner. So, that's kind of the update on change order number one for Spruce Wash and for the roundabout at Fourth and Cedar. And here we have um information should somebody want to call about Spruce Wash or for the roundabout. And again, the number for the hotline is the same to Beta PR because they're doing both projects.

And then they can sign up for an e newswsletter under Spruce Wash or just get information from the project email for the roundabout. So with that, I'll take any questions. Thank you, Trevor. Um, city manager. Thank you, Mayor Council Trevor. Thanks. Um, a couple of comments. It's great to hear this update.

There's been a lot of time and effort behind the scenes on this, getting the dates right, getting the project right, figuring out how to do this in a manner that uh minimizes impact upon the neighborhoods and the businesses uh in the schools. I just want to express uh deep gratitude to Trevor and the team. Um many people have been involved in not just the transportation infrastructure but the spruce wash improvements as a whole.

I'll name a few and do so at the risk of not naming many because there's been such a big team behind this, but uh Trevor and all the project managers uh Paul Mood and uh Julie Le, Scott Overton, many others uh who have had their hands on these projects for quite some time.

I remember when Proposition 441 was passed uh by a considerable margin years ago, the product of a citizen uh committee that uh took this project on as as well as project 442 and strategized and crunched numbers and put together a really good advancement that came forward to the city council and a good good discussion at the deis and then out of that uh the vote uh and these projects happened.

The remarkable thing about that, and I don't want to steal other people's thunder here because there'll be more stuff on the Spruce Wash improvements as we need as we near finality. Uh to see those projects from start to finish occur within a three-year time frame, it's absolutely remarkable. So, uh kudos to the team, kudos to Trevor, uh and especially with the public outreach that's now happening. That leads to my second comment.

Um the neighbors, the businesses, the schools, everybody out in those neighborhoods, we we know that they have been impacted all the way back to the flood events of years ago. And uh resulting from that, the flood mitigation projects which have been extensive and and very disruptive to to that uh to the many neighborhoods over there. Um they have endured road closures for months, years in some instances and then detours and traffic obstructions, orange cones everywhere.

It's been it's been that over the past uh few years and there's a little bit more uh now remaining, but these are the final touches. It's exciting to see these projects come to fruition. And it's exciting to to know that Cedar and a good part of West uh will now have new overlays to go along with all the other parts of the projects and the uh roundabout which is an amazing project. So um those uh very positive comments uh I know there'll be more discussion of this.

Just want to express my gratitude to the team, appreciation to the uh neighbors out there and especi uh especially noting the number the level of outreach that's occurring uh to try to soften this impact. Uh so thank you very much, Council Member House. Thank you, mayor. Thank you, city manager, and thank you, Trevor, for the presentation and city manager for your comments. Um I initially had a question about some of the But I think you kind of covered that um in your comments.

So I'll just add to the um the thanks for for uh continuing with this project and for seeing it through not only um well and and making sure that these projects are having the intended impacts um but also as the city manager mentioned so expeditiously. Um, I know we often have conversations about the speed of a government or lack thereof when it comes to major projects.

And to see a project like this making its way um along so smoothly and so quickly um is certainly I think a testament to um the team that we have behind this and and your team uh in overseeing this. So, um I'll just add my thanks and um look forward to hearing any uh next updates on all of this. So, thank you, Vice Mayor. Thank you. And the two previous speakers stole my thunder.

Um, but you know, I I am a small business owner and my account is actually over on Cedar and I will tell you that she has had nothing but good things to say and it's really refreshing to hear. Um, yes, you know, of course the closures are frustrating but everyone that I've talked to has said it's been very expeditious and and you have been communicating and you know that it's an impact and I just really do appreciate that.

Um, small businesses are hurting right now and um, I think you realize that and I just appreciate all of the accommodations and hard work you put into the outreach and making sure that this got done in a timely manner. So, thank you. All right. Seeing no other comments, I will entertain a motion. Your honor, may I say a comment real quick before you do the motion? Of course. Your honor, council, just we appreciate your support. It's a team effort that goes behind the scenes.

I'm just one member of the team. There are so many out there that have done great work. also leadership here at the city has provided input when we needed it. And so it's it's a great effort, great team effort, coordination. Um I like the comment about speed of government. We are showing that we're doing a lot here at the city of Flagstaff for our residents and community. So thank you. Thank you, Trevor. Mayor, I'd like to make a motion. Thank you.

Please change order number one for cedar crossing. All right. Do we have a second? That council member Garcia, was that a second? Yes, I'll second that, Madame Mayor. Thank you. Thank you. Any discussion? Mayor, just a question. Do we also need to uh state the second part of that motion, the authorization? No, it's fine. That's okay. Any discussion? All those in favor? I I Any opposed? All right. Thank you so much. Moving down to E. Consideration and approval.

A request for preliminary block plat. Good afternoon, evening. Alexandro Pelli, the current planning manager here at the city. Tonight I have a preliminary block plat for Canyon Del Rio phase 2. Um, I just want to note that this plat is coming to you because it's an older application. We've since been able to update our code and certain plat won't be coming to council, especially at preliminary phase.

Um, but this one because we're using utilizing that older code, that's why you're seeing this now. Uh, this is a request for a preliminary block. approval for Canyon Del Rio phase 2. It's a 119ish acre residential subdivision located at 3200 East Butler Avenue in both the single family residential and medium density residential zones. Uh just to orient us, uh north will is the Canyon Del Rio phase one portion of this project. Um to the east is vacant land in the rural residential zone.

Uh we are simultaneously looking at applications to develop this as a single family residential subdivision. To the south is some vacant parcels, some single family homes. Um some of it is in the city in the estate residential zone, some is in Cookanino County. And to the west is vacant land in the ER zone that's owned by Lil America. Uh the preliminary block plat.

This this portion of the plat um proposes well all of CDR proposes a maximum of 1,426 residential units and over 200,000 square feet of commercial space and approximately 54 acres of open space. Uh we've already reviewed and approved the final plat for phase one and that final plat also created track Z for future development. And that's what we're looking at now is taking that track Z and further subdividing it into blocks that will then be further subdivided into subdivisions, neighborhoods.

Um, this phase 2 plat also it includes four blocks of land, five tracks as well as a required rightway for John Wesley Pal Boulevard that got redirected through this parcel. Um, as well as rightway for a portion of Herald Ranch Road that crosses this area. So, put on your binoculars and let's look at this plat. Um, we have blocks Q1, Q2, which is over on the upper left side highlighted in that yellow um rectangle. Um, slightly to the east and south is block R2R3.

Um you can see John Wesley Pal that right ofway crossing the the plat and then you see R4R5 to the south of that and then Q3 I believe it is to the very very south there. Um we have some tracks some are set aside for drainage. Um we also have tracks that will be dedicated to the city. Um that's tracked A and B that include that Rio de flag. So we get that um that flood plane. And then there's tract S in the lower right corner which is a future development single family subdivision.

Um I think that's about it. So, when we're looking at subdivision plat, we have three different findings that we're um reviewing them to. Conformance with the zoning code, conformance with the the subdivision standards, and conformance with the engineering standards. So, for zoning regulations, as I stated before, this property is zoned both R1, like some portions are R1, some are MR. um the proposed blocks meet those minimum parcel dimensions just because they're so large.

Um what we really get into making sure we're meeting those minimum standards once we get into subdivisions and we're dividing into individual little single family home lots. Um these subdivisions also need to meet density requirements. there are some um previous agreements and the development agreement and that reszoning that happened that talks about the density here.

So, it's kind of a balancing act between meeting the requirements, the current density requirements of the zone, but also meeting the proposed density that was allowed as part of that development agreement and that old reszone. Uh, natural resources, there was a natural resource protection plan provided as part of this block plat. Um, as I mentioned, that flood plane where the Rio is is preserved at 100% and will be dedicated to the city for maintenance.

Uh, the specific resources to be to be saved are going to be identified again once we get to that little subdivision scale. And the development agreement allows the developer in Canyon Del Rio to have these resource banks. So maybe one development site is restricted and has can't quite meet the resource protection required of it. They can utilize some of the resource protection on another site and it's looked at more holistically instead of block byb block, parcel by parcel.

Uh we also look at parks, open space, pedestrian and bicycle facilities. Um, as I mentioned before, there's proposed to be about 54 acres for open space. Um, the plat shows proposed foots trail alignments which again will be constructed and sort of nailed down as far as topography and location as this gets further subdivided. Um, each parcel is also required to meet any required open space or civic space requirements of the development.

Um, and then that John Wesley Pal Boulevard section includes bike lanes, includes sidewalks, foots trails oh, and the underpass. Um, the finding number two is subdivision standards. So, preliminary plat um we're looking at the application requirements and then we're looking at subdivision improvements including lot design, street design, easements, um block design. Again, that that really is happening in the future as we further subdivide as well. the engineering standards.

Um we do do public systems analysis to confirm the prelim preliminary compliance with engineering standards. Um and then we further confirm that it's meeting those standards when we're reviewing those civil plans. um for access and traffic um staff required a new traffic impact analysis because of changes proposed by the applicant. Um so changing um classification of certain roadways and connections. So we updated that traffic impact analysis.

Um for off-site improvements, um staff requested that right ofway be reserved for a two-lane roundabout at the intersections of John Wesley Palen Wetstone as well as John Wesley Palen Fourth Street and John Wesley Palen Herald Ranch as well as a proportional cost share for the construction of a single lane roundabout at the intersection of John Wesley Pal and Wetstone.

This exact percentage is part of a larger discussion that staff is having with the applicant to coordinate construction of fourth street that then turns into John Wesley Pal. Um so to be determined uh for water and wastewater the original approved WISA was dated July of 2015. Um it was based on certain demands of how many units and how much commercial space. Um the DA had a cash and loo payment for future water storage that would be triggered at a certain point as far as number of units.

Um there's also an agreement that that um the city can locate possible well sites um if the city determines that that that's something they want to do. Um the WHISA does not identify the need for off-site improvements from CDR for storm water. Again the draft the drainage impact analysis was done in 2013. Um we did do a preliminary drainage report in 2025 um that was reviewed by staff.

Again, as these blocks get developed and we get more information, each of those developments will provide storm water mitigation on site. Um the basins shown currently on the plat are more focused for public improvements.

So that especially John Wesley Pal the amount of impervious there making sure that we're mitigating that storm water and this project because it has a de previous development agreement it was um under different code so it's required to meet the half inch threshold as opposed to currently the inch threshold um but that's approved as part of that agreement.

So staff's recommendation is that council approve the preliminary plat in accordance with the findings presented in the report as well as the planning and zoning commission's recommendation of approval and that was a vote of seven to zero on August 13, 2025. I think the agenda had a little typo of 2015. No, it just happened.

So um with the following conditions that the final plat for each phase shall be in substantial conformance with the preliminary plat including the phasing plan and map shown on sheets PH1 and PH2 of the preliminary block plat of Canyon Del Rio phase 2. Each phase and parcel of Canyon Del Rio plat must meet all requirements individually or independently, sorry.

And condition two is that the final plat for Canyon Del Rio phase 2 must meet the conditions of approval in the IDS approval comment letter dated June 5th, as well that as the conditions in the traffic impact analysis approval memo dated July 10th, 2025 and with the caveat that staff and the applicant are continuing to discuss the proportional share contributions for the improvements at the Wetstone and Fourth Street intersection as well as responsibility for payment for that proportional share.

The conditions related to improvements at the Wetstone and Fourth Street intersection may be revised or removed depending on the outcome of those discussions. So, I'm available if you have any questions. I believe the applicant is here as well if you have any questions for them. Thank you. Uh we have a question from council member house. Thank you mayor. Thank you very much for the presentation and um for noting that typo. I know we just talked about speed of government.

10 years would not be particularly speedy. Um I was going too speedy I think. Uh my question is going back to finding number one. If you can go back to that slide uh where it talks about the connections to the proposed. Yes, right there. Um so with the conditions that are placed on this and um the first one being that the final plat for each phase shall be in substantial conformance with the prelim preliminary plat. Does that include the proposed foots trail alignments?

I would say yes, but substantially in conformance. So, we're really focused on where are people coming from, where are we trying to get them and the route there. Um, but I think staff is trying to be um flexible and working with developers that as they develop that that foots is located in a place that makes sense for the development. Um, so if we if we had a hard and fast alignment now, we might regret it in the future that it ends up being somewhere where maybe we we wish it wasn't located.

So that's I that's kind of the big picture answer, I guess. Thank you very much, council. Any additional questions or comments? Just to dubtail off that, mayor. Um, talk us through how that could affect the Arizona Trail or if that's irrelevant to these parcels. I don't believe the Arizona Trail is aligned to go through this area. I believe it's just city foots. Um, primarily going kind of west east west across the site. Um, so I think I think we're in the clear as far as the trail.

Any other questions or comments? All right. Um, I'm looking for a motion to approve the preliminary plat or not. So move to approve um including the conditions. Yes. Is there a second? I'll second. Is there any discussion? All those in favor? I. Any opposed? All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So, now we have two public hearing items. We have a which is already on the agenda. And then as you'll recall, we um we uh there was an error in the agenda.

So we moved 11B up to now be 10B. So I'm opening the public hearing and this is a consideration and adoption of ordinance number 2025-17. Hello Ben. Hello. Uh Ben Mahia, uh planner with the city of Flagstaff, like to request a continuence on this item for it to be heard uh September 16th, 2025. Sterling, I have forgotten. Do do we need a motion to continue this? It'll be a motion to postpone to the date of September 16. Thank you. Can I get a motion?

Mayor, I will move to postpone to the date certain of September 16th, 2025. I'll second. Any discussion? All those in favor? I. Any opposed? All right. Thank you. All right. Um, so that public hearing stays open and I am opening the public hearing for item now 10B, consideration and adoption of resolution number 2025-42 and ordinance number 2025-16. Hi, thank you so much. Tiffany Antl, zoning code manager.

Tonight I'm here to um to discuss a zoning code text amendment entitled single-use residential and adaptive reuse incentives. Um we are working planning is working in conjunction with housing. Um thank you so much to Justina and Jen Michaelelsson um who have assisted and pretty much held my hand throughout the preparation of this text amendment. But this is meant to work in conjunction with the general obligation funds for um housing opportunities.

There are specific funding that you're going to hear about for specifically for adaptive reuse projects. So I will stop talking about that part now. Um we um previously uh our code analysis project did identify the ability to do singleuse residential uh in commercial zones as a potential and that that could be a potential impediment to housing stock and the fact that we currently require conditional use permits.

Um the code concepts report in does already include suggestions for either incentivizing single-use residential and commercial zones or allowing them by rate. Um and of course here we are now in support of the release of bond funding. So what does the amendment include? It has got new definitions for both adaptive reuse and single-use residential. Creates two new affordable housing incentives.

It relocates an existing affordable housing incentive because I can't not clean up code whenever I get that option and uh provides in addition outside of residential haven't done anything commercial lately. So we've also provided reduced parking incentives for non-residential adaptive reuse projects um and did some cleanup and clarification in our existing parking reductions. So the new definition single-use residential uh it's basically a development containing only residential uses.

So it's not mixed use, it's single use. Uh adaptive reuse is the repurposing of an existing building from the use for which it was constructed to a new use by preserving the elements of the existing building rather than demolition. The reason that we call out adaptive use is because it's generally fairly tough situation to go through. It's pretty costly.

So if you take a commercial building for example and you convert it to a residential use, it can be extremely costly for that um particular entity to accomplish, we want to recognize that and also make those projects um easier to pursue. So um in the process of working through this particular text amendment, we were primarily focused on single-use residential in the commercial zones.

I don't know if you remember, but about a year ago, we were before you to talk about adding additional residential uses in the public facility zones. And at that time, we decided that the best thing to move forward was to use it to have those as a conditional use permit. Recently, I I was contacted by FUSD, who is pursuing a LITC project. Um, they would like to have this opportunity of having the affordable housing incentive extended into the public facility zone as well.

Um, this covers most of the concerns that we heard before in regards to the public facility zones and how we could keep those housing projects limited to affordable housing. And this would be one of those ways. Uh, so the new affordable housing incentive would be for projects providing a minimum of 20% of all housing units within the development at an average of 80% AMI for rental and at a maximum of 150% AMI for home ownership.

um if they provide those units um they would not be required to obtain a conditional use permit. So they could just come in get by right approval. It's important to remember that singleuse residential is not necessarily specific to adaptive reuse but a lot of adaptive reuse projects are would would fall in this category. The same is true. So, we have a second incentive for adaptive reuse may not include a single-use residential. Um, it could be mixed use.

So, we want to make sure we catch the whole overlap. Uh, in this case, um, the projects providing 20% of all housing units within the development, again, at 80% AMI for rental and 150% for ownership. The adaptive reuse incentive would be limited to buildings that are at least 15 years of age. So, we're not really converting brand new construction over and then not meeting the zoning code requirements. Um, and also for projects that are not including additions that exceed 25%.

Um, the adaptive use incentives include that projects do not have to comply with parking space requirements. They do not have to comply with their site planning design standards. They do not need to comply with additional uh landscaping standards. They do not need to provide additional common space and they do not need to conform to the architectural design standards. In a lot of cases, these are long-standing buildings that have been in the community.

Um sometimes they're historic, sometimes they're not. Um but it would be impossible in a lot of ways to go back and try to retrofit a site. It would be really financially um not feasible. Um so this provision would make adaptive reuse um a higher likelihood and an easier possibility in terms of the zoning code. So for the non-residential adaptive reuse parking reductions, um I don't know how familiar you all are with the parking requirements right here in our downtown.

If you're in the central business zoning district, which is most of the core downtown north of the tracks, um if a change of use happens, that business owner is not required to provide parking. As we know, most of these businesses do not already have parking. However, the same is not true when you go to the south side and you travel south of the tracks. They're no longer in that central business district zone.

when a change of use happens, those businesses are you generally forced to go through the variance process because they're not able to provide parking. What this adaptive reuse um parking reduction will do is allow for the change of use to happen in existing buildings that are also at least 15 years of age that are no more than 5,000 square feet in size. It will allow for small additions. Um they cannot exceed up to 50% but they also cannot exceed that 5,000 gross square feet.

Um and they need to at least have on street parking available within a quarter mile. Uh staff uh there's particular findings that have to be met for any zoning code text amendment. Um there are a number of goals and policies within our existing regional plan that support adaptive reuse.

There isn't a lot of discussion about single use necessarily, but a lot of things that um work towards promoting um adaptive reuse because After all, the most efficient a building is a building that already exists in our community. Um the so there's more regional plan policies. Uh 10-year housing plan also tells us we want to incentivize the creation of affordable housing units and encourage the adaptive reuse of buildings.

Uh carbon neutrality plan is all about creating housing options for households at all income levels. Um the proposed amendment it would not is proposed amendment is intended to enhance public health and safety by incentivizing the contribution of affordable housing units as defined by the code.

In addition, the amendment incentivizes the reuse of existing commercial buildings for residential development by minimizing site improvement requirements including parking landscaping, architectural design standards, and site planning design standards. Lastly, the amendment includes provisions for that non-residentidential adaptive reuse as well. And it the zoning code text amendment is internally consistent.

The planning and zoning commission did unanimously recommend the city council approved the zoning code text amendment. And if you have any questions, I'd be happy to try to answer them. Thank you, uh, Council Member House. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Tiffany. Uh just a really quick question. So with um I think the first finding um was the proposed amendment having to align with policies and you you reference the alignment to the current um regional plan.

And I'm just wondering I'm assuming that you're also looking at at least general alignment with the upcoming plan since we're so close on that one. Is that a fair assumption? Thank you so much. Yes. always keeping eyes on the moving forward to the new plan. And yes, um there are a lot fewer policies, but adaptive reuse is still a um uh preferred development option. Thank you very much, council. Additional questions, comments? Council member Matthews. Thank you, Mayor.

I'm ready to make a motion if the rest of the council is done with questions. First, I need to check for public comment. There's no public comment. Okay. Um, so I'm going to close the public hearing and I will take your motion. Thank you, mayor. I'd like to move that we read resolution number 2025-44 by title only. I'll second. Any discussion? All those in favor? Actually, yes. 42. Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, we're on um it's 11B on your on your agenda, but it's been moved up to 10B. Thank you.

So yes, read resolution number 20542 by title only for the first time in the ordinance 2020-16. First the resolution um mayor and council member. All right. So we have a motion to read the resolution by title only for the first time and you second it. Any discussion? All those in favor? I I. Any opposed? All right. City clerk.

A resolution of the Flagstaff City Council declaring as a public record that certain document filed with the city clerk and entitled PZ-25-000041- singleuse residential in the commercial and public facility zones and adaptive reuse incentives. Council member Matthews, did you may I move to I do. Can I read Can I'd like to move that we read ordinance number 2025-16 by title only for the first time. Is there a second? I'll second. Any discussion? All those in favor? I. Any opposed? City clerk.

An ordinance of the city council of the city of Flagstaff amending the Flagstaff city code title 10 Flagstaff zoning code by adopting by reference that certain document entitled PZ-25-000041- singleuse residential in the commercial and public facility zones and adaptive reuse incentives providing for repeal of conflicting ordinances severability authority for clerical corrections and establishing an effective date. Thank you. All right. Now, on to our regular agenda.

11A, consideration and adoption of resolution number 2025-44. Okay, adaptive reuse part two here. Um, good evening, mayor and council. I'm Jennifer Michaelelsson, housing planning manager with the housing office. Um, I'm here tonight to ask for your approval of a resolution adopting the adaptive reuse bond program. Um this is the latest uh program we've developed for the expenditure of bond funds.

Um and adaptive reuse as you heard is another creative way for us to bring on additional uh affordable housing units in our community. All right. So, anytime we're talking about bond funds, I always like to start uh with this slide here. Um just to give a quick overview of where this funding comes from and what affordable housing activities will be funded. Um so, in uh November 2022, Flagstaff voters approved the affordable housing bond. That was Prop 442.

Um and the ballot question identified four different spending categories to assist in the creation of affordable uh ownership and rental opportunities in Flagstaff. Um so we've made our way here to the second bullet here where um 3 million in bond funds were allocated to repurpose existing buildings into rental units.

Um so the language um we like to use from this city of Flagstaff voter information pamphlet uh explains the intent behind the this bond funding category a little bit more specifically. It's really helpful for us as staff. I'll just read it real quick. Um the funding in this category will allow the city of Flagstaff to partner with uh private developers um nonprofits included to repurpose existing and available buildings and spaces into rental opportunities for the residents of Flagstaff.

So housing units are not the only community benefit this activity will provide. In addition to the creation of an estimated 75 rental units, um currently vacant uh space in Flagstaff will transition to occupied homes. Um so this lingual this language is helpful for us because it gives us um it gave us a goal uh or target number of the 75 rental units to work off of. Um you can see that well we noticed as housing staff that an income limit was not identified in the in this intent language.

So, um, we did have the flexibility to to determine, um, with the help of the housing commission, um, the maximum household income limit for these affordable units and and and which households, um, they should serve. Um, and I I also just wanted to note here, um, to I know Tiffany gave us a nice definition. She kind of paved the way for this presentation nicely. Um, just because, um, it may not be a super familiar term for people in the room, adaptive reuse.

Um, it typically refers to the the process of repurposing an an existing building for a new or different use than its original purpose. Um, and often you'll see like nationally, um, really cool examples include things like turning a warehouse into a restaurant or an old factory gets turned into a hotel. Super cool examples of adaptive reuse.

Um but for the purposes of this program and this funding um we're asking for the adaptive reuse of buildings that result in the creation of affordable rental units. Okay. So here's a little bit of a timeline of how we spent the last year developing this program.

Uh we started working a little bit less than a year ago, about last fall doing research into adapt uh different adaptive reuse projects um specifically around the state because we like to kind of stay within our sphere of you know within our legal constraints here in the state of Arizona. So um a lot of recent examples of adaptive reuse in Arizona have been um the conversion of motel to transitional housing units.

Um, I interviewed a handful of our local nonprofits here about their experience buying and renovating hotels in Flagstaff um to try to understand how the our funds could support similar projects in the future. Um, and to identify what opportunities they are seeing out there on the market. Um, so last winter during the initial we were able to take that feedback and start an initial draft of the program last winter.

Um and we saw that you know like Tiffany was describing when a res residential project is being proposed in a commercial zone um a lot of zoning requirements and extra approval come comes with that um that adds time and cost um to affordable housing providers.

And so we asked our friends in planning and development services if we could make these um adaptive reuse projects easier to accomplish as you heard by offering incentives in the zoning code that streamline the plan review process and remove um a lot of like challenging code requirements and appro approvals. So um this last spring we spent collaborating with Tiffany on the details of all those um incentives that she just covered for us. So, um let's see.

Then, um in March, we had a really great work session with the housing commissioners to get their input on the draft program. Um I can I'll go into the the program requirements in the coming slides, but um Tiffany did do uh she followed up with our initial work session with another meeting of her own with the commissioners to get their specific feedback on her adaptive reuse code incentives. um the adaptive reuse and the single-use residential codes um that she just shared with us.

So um she made a stop uh with us in in at the housing commission. Um and that that really brings us to the summer. We're uh we took a revised draft of the program to the commissioners in July where they offered a unanimous recommendation of approval. Um and Tiffany also had uh a series of public hearing comments that she started this this summer as well. So we were really trying to time it to be at public hearings at the same time. So that worked out really well.

Um so some priorities for this program we um we developed as we were doing our outreach for the and and research and um looking into how this program should function. Um some of the priorities in particular were we didn't want to exclude any creative proposals. Um so our project requirements are very broad. Um, we also heard a lot of support uh for more workforce housing in addition to transitional housing needs um that already we've already seen projects like that.

Um, so we knew early on we did want to try to accommodate both project types. Um, we also realized early on that developers of affordable housing would likely need help um in acquiring a building before any renovations could occur. Um, so acquisition uh property acquisition is an eligible for these funds. Um, and another priority was to shorten the amount of time it took to connect affordable housing providers with the funding to bring new affordable units online.

Um, so with this program, we're proposing to offer it uh through an open call for elections on the city's web website. Um, we would just uh award funds on a first come first serve basis until all the funding is uh awarded. Um like I I mentioned this uh earlier on the last slide. Um we really appreciated having that goal of 75 new affordable units because it allowed us to take the guesswork out of um how much funding the applicants would be eligible for.

Um so the $3 million would be awarded on a per unit cost basis to meet that 75 unit goal. So, what we did was just $3 million divided by 70 equals um a $40,000 uh award per unit. So, um and lastly, we did hear that it was necessary to remove some of the zoning uncertainties um and we knew we needed to work with um our zoning code manager, Tiffany, so that those affordable residential uses in commercial buildings would be allowed by right. Okay.

So, a lot I can talk about a lot of the program criteria all on this slide. Um, I really wanted to simplify it here so I didn't overwhelm you with all of the text, but you you know, if you have the draft program pulled up, you can follow along. But, um, so yeah, I I touched on it on the timeline slide, but the work session with the commissioners in March was really helpful. They they let us know we were on the right track with most aspects of this program. So, that was good to hear.

They did like the non-competitive open call for elections uh sorry applications and the idea that if a project met the stated criteria um that they would be eligible for award really simple. Um so we did develop the uh the following pass fail evaluative criteria. Um first funding can only be awarded for projects located within city limits. Um the applicants need to demonstrate that their project is permitted by right in accordance with the zoning code.

So um once Tiffany's code amendments are effective, um applicants will be able to kind of cite that part of the code. So we can we can see they're they're going to benefit from that part of the code. Um and applicants must also show proof of ownership uh or a contingent purchase contract, lease agreement providing the applicant with the right to operate the proposed residential use on site. um or a letter of intent to purchase or lease the property.

Um eligible uses um the bond funds can be used uh for costs relating to the creation of new affordable rental housing in existing buildings which includes acquisition, renovation and rehabilitation. Inel ineligible uses uh would include costs related to the construction of new freestanding buildings. Um, renovation of any market rate units. Um, that's that's not permitted. Renovation of existing residential units. We're trying to go for new residential.

Um, and complete demolition of buildings is also ineligible. Um, or of course the improvement of completely undeveloped land. Um, so pretty obvious ineligible uses there. Um, the minimum affordability period for these units is 30 years. uh which begins at the issuance of certificate of occupancy. That's consistent with the rest of our code. Um let's see.

Uh and then as for the income limits for this program, the commission verified that 80% of the area median income um was an appropriate limit for these limits or sorry for these units. Um just as a reference, assuming these are relatively smaller units, um for a household size of two people, that would be uh just under $70,000 in 2025 income. Um but they they did ask us uh the commission was very very interested in uh opening the program up to mixed income projects.

So we kind of did away with the 100% affordable unit requirement. Um and uh so market rate units may be proposed as well as part of their their project. Um but of course the amount of bond funding awarded is based on how many affordable units are in their project.

So, um, and lastly, uh, we we know that some, like depending on, you know, if you're a nonprofit or a a regular, you know, regular person trying to make this work, you might have access to different funding sources and different um, income and rent restrictions may be tied to some of your funding sources. So, we will defer to those if you happen to have a grant or um, some sort of a loan.

um we want you to follow those requirements that are put on you there, but in the absence of any of those external those funding um requirements, we'd have you use our our City of Flagstaff affordable rent and income limits. Um so I think um oh yeah, we have two more evaluative criteria points here. um that is the cost per affordable unit requested and proof of other funding sources. So applications that are requesting that $40,000 or less per affordable unit um will be eligible.

Um funding would be awarded um or sorry uh any applications requesting more than the $40,000 per unit are automatically ineligible. We just have to say that. Um, and I want to highlight here again that the bond funding, uh, while bond funding will only be awarded to support the creation of affordable units, um, this program will not prohibit market rate units within the same project. Um, and additional uh, other leveraged funding sources beyond our city program funds are required.

You know, we want to know that you've done enough leg work um, already to get a project up and running, and this this funding just kind of helps you close that gap. Um so all of those uh submission of all of your other funding is required and will be evaluated for project viability. Applicants must provide all funding sources including um current and signed letters of commitment from pending funders or loan documents from closed funders.

Um and the commissioners were really helpful um helping us differentiate um language and requirements for um a project needing like acquisition funds like a loan for an acquisition project versus funding for a like a renovation project. So we thank them for their help with that. Um and that okay so those that uh is all of our past fail eval criteria. Uh, I just have the next slide as a recap of what the application process will look like.

Um, this again, yeah, will be available on a first come, first- serve basis until all of our program funds have been awarded. So, however long that takes, we're not really sure. Um, and applications will be reviewed for eligibility um by housing staff. Um, applications must pass every evaluative criteria I just covered to receive a recommendation for their full funding.

Um, and we'll try to get um we'll we'll work to get the notices of eligibility for your funding out to any applicant within 30 days of application. So, we're trying to make this we wanted to allow like a little bit of buffer time. Um, but hopefully it can be even faster than that for folks. So, um, last slide, we're in the home stretch. We've got loan terms.

Um, just to summarize here, uh, much like our, uh, prior, uh, rental incentive bond program that we approved, well, maybe more than a year ago, I think maybe two years ago now, um, this funding will be provided as a loan, um, between eligible applicants and the city. Um, and it would be subject, of course, to city council approval. Um, so program funds would be dispersed at either the close of escrow if they're acquiring a pro a property or after their primary loan closes.

Um, so the loan would be secured against the property with a promisory note and recorded deed of trust and will be subordinate to their first mortgage financing. Um, no interest or principal payments would be required during the 30-year term. um as long as the affordable units continue to meet um the terms identified in the loan documents. Um and after that 30-year period of uh compliance um the uh loan may be forgiven.

It would be um as long as the the units have been offered in compliance with the loan terms, there is forgiveness. That was an important aspect of this program we wanted to um offer. Um I think that's just one more. I think we just have Oh, and I didn't Oh, I do have it here. Yes. Um the units uh we have a 24month um timeline where um the units need to be available within 24 months after notification of award.

So, they need to make sure they have all of their, you know, renovations and certificates of occupancy really rolling during that two-year time period. Um, and last slide, I just have a couple of our next steps. Um, we just actually finalized the application for the funding today. Um, thank you Christine Pavick for helping with that. I was not able to do that. Um, she uh helped immensely and I think we'll be able to post that application for funding assuming this is all approved tonight.

Um, we can get that posted on our website by tomorrow which is really exciting. I think that's record speed for our bond programs. Um we would be doing a little bit of uh outreach to notify development partners that this funding is now available. Um we will make an announcement on social media. This will be featured in our housing monthly newsletter. So kind of all the normal avenues we use for for outreach.

Um we do have a mailing list as well that we can um we have some potential applicants I think we can reach that way. So, um, and once we have the initial applications evaluated and awards kind of determined and and then drafted with that with those applicants, we will bring those loan documents back to you all for your approval. Um, and that is all I have for this presentation. If you have any questions, I'm happy to answer. We do. Uh, Council Member Matthews. Thank you, Mayor Jennifer.

Thank you so much. Um, I remember when the bond was first approved and I was so excited to see us uh allocate all those funds that first year and it was a quite a a a learning process that it doesn't happen that fast. I'm very happy to see the award award funds on a per unit cost basis to meet the 75 unit goal. Um, I feel like you've heard our concerns in some of the other programs that didn't didn't quite um meet expectations. So, thank you so much.

Um, also um there was another another thing that you guys delivered on that I'm just so happy to see. But one thing that kind of set my antennas up and I was trying I was looking back on the presentation and I don't see it in writing. So, I just wanted to confirm with you. I thought I heard you say that these funds could be used for transitional housing.

Now, you know, I think that everybody knows I'm a champion for transitional housing, but there's different focuses and different pots of money for addressing our housing needs. So, can you just clarify that this is for permanent housing? I think it it's available for either. I think either project type can be proposed and and we're assuming if it's transitional units there would be some additional funding. Um there's usually additional funding um being leveraged other than ours. Okay.

To achieve that. Again, I've been a champion of transitional h housing um even when um HUD didn't feel that transitional housing should be part of the continuum. Um I've championed that all along, but this is not in my opinion what this bond money was to be. I mean, we give um you know, for shelter services, we give over $100,000 out of our general fund to help that. There's a lot of money for shelter and transitional housing.

I am um I have to say I'm really disappointed that this housing crisis bond money um can be used for transitional housing. I think that's a misuse of the intent of what the voters voted on and um I'm sorry to hear you say that. Thank you. Did you want to go back to the um ballot language? This was the intent language from theformational pamphlet. So it talks about rental units and this is available for whether it's transitional rental units or permanent rental units.

It it just depends on what the um developer is proposing. Correct. We to clarify transitional rental if you're going to call it rental units is a maximum of two years. Are you would you like to add that or remove like strike transitional house or specifically prohibit that type of rental or I think well I I'm just caught off guard. I I I'm caught off guard. I I this bond money in my mind was for the increase in, you know, the parts that were for rental and the other part for home ownership.

And even for me in my space of transitional housing, I did not uh translate that into transitional housing would be part of the rental um stock. Um so I I would not support this to be used. I mean, we we there's a lot there's a lot of money and of course there's a lot more that could be given um to our transitional and our shelter services and that's a different focus and I think that to address our housing crisis we need to keep our money focused on permanent housing.

Mayor Council Justina Costa, assistant housing director. Uh so because the language in the bond pamphlet was very non-conclusive um that is the direction uh we as staff went. However, we're happy to amend um the re or the draft policy at this point and just include rental housing and not transitional whatever council would like. Thank you, Just Dana.

And I would say because you did all of the outreach and the housing commission unanimously approved this um I would I would like to see us continue with the way it's been proposed. Um but let's take additional questions and comments. Uh Council Member House. Thank you, Mayor.

Thank you team um for presenting on this and um I was able to be um I think mostly present for the council me or the commission meeting excuse me um when the housing commission discussed this and um it it's always a joy to me when these sorts of conversations come before them because they tend to be the most robust um and engaged conversations um uh within that commission.

Not that they're not all engaging in their their own ways, but um this is where you really see some of the heart of that commission coming forward and and figuring out how to um tackle the different things under their charge. Um that said, um I am just very excited to see this program moving forward. Um this was a program that was um uh proposed under um uh my term when I was still on the housing commission.

Um we heard earlier about the um citizens committee that um moved forward um uh proposition 442 and 441. um and I had the honor of serving on that and then um uh being appointed to city council um when we were considering moving those forward. So, this is a a project and um a part of uh Proposition 442 that has been um very near and dear to my heart in particular um since the the introduction of all of this.

Um I would say that I am in agreement with the mayor on the um transitional housing point um simply because I um being part of the conversation first of all with the housing commission and and hearing their perspectives on this um and hearing some of the conversation that happened um regarding how this funding would be uh utilized.

Um, I think it's important for us to consider that all of these opportunities are supporting and moving forward um the full housing continuum and um opportunities for housing um including um and I think importantly including opportunities for transitional housing um beyond uh or moving people out of homelessness. Um, I think that's an important consideration for this and an important use um that can be uh uh seen and continued within our community as it has been so far.

So, um I am obviously supportive of of moving this forward and um we'll be happy to make a motion as we move forward, but I know that there are other comments and questions. Um so, I will wait for those. Thank you, mayor. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Thank you, and thank you for the presentation. I am too very happy to see this come forward. I'm wondering how will compliance with the 30-year affordability requirements be monitored and enforced?

30 years is a long time, so I just want to make sure we have something in place for that. And moving forward, I would love to see um staff return to council with regular updates on this um with awarded projects and the units created. Thank you. Great. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Hey, your first question. We do uh we do conduct by annual reporting uh requirements for all of our affordable units.

Um so especially with Tiffany's any project that is taking advantage of the adaptive reuse incentives through Tiffany's code amendment um they would be signing like an affordable housing agreement just stating they've utilized you know XYZ incentives and they're committing to a 30-year term as well. um that is on top of our our loan documents that we would be putting together for the bond funds.

Um but the bond funds of course um all of those the loan agreement will include a reporting requirements that we already um conduct. We actually have a new software to help with the reporting requirements because our stock and affordable housing is growing which is really great. And so it's it's we're at the point where um software is really helpful in getting us organized and um standardized with all the the reporting. So thank you for that.

And I and I do hope that you know if this does pass tonight that we can get the updates. Thank you, Council Member Matthews. Thank you, Mayor. Just one last comment. Um, it does read rental units and I think most voters uh don't um they don't equate that to transitional. And again, I'm the biggest champion for transitional housing, so don't get me wrong, but um I you know, obviously we have seven council members voting. Um it feels like it's going to go to an approval.

Um, I will wait to see and hopefully be um pleasantly surprised if and if this money goes to actual meeting our um housing shortage and not 100% going to transitional housing. So, uh thank you again for all your hard work. I am happy that we have put together uh different uh pots of um focuses on the bond money that got approved and we're addressing it and moving it forward. So, I do thank you for that.

But I am highly disappointed that this is going to be opened up to a section of housing that has its own focuses and and funding. Um just really disappointed. Thank you. All right. I don't see any other questions from council, so I'm going to take um public comment. Naen Hart. Hello, council members. Um, I want to thank council member Matthews for again streamlining things that we might miss between the lines. It is not okay to open this up to transitional housing.

We have a huge hotel going up on Huntington that was approved by council. That's for transient housing. We have several shelters here. We have Sharon Manor for victims of domestic violence. They have their housing. What we don't have and it's easy to forget when we go home every day to our own house. How many hundreds and thousands of people in our community need a permanent home to do the basic jobs. With the increase in minimum wage, everything else went up.

We need to house people who are going to show up every single day to open your gyms, to serve in your restaurants, to serve in your schools, to clean the city council toilets. The the population that is transitional has no intention to stay and participate. They are transitional. You guys have constantly given them opportunities. They have housing, but this is an opportunity to specifically use this money and these apartments to help your constituents.

I do not see how you can possibly consider more transitional housing when we need more affordable permanent homes for our residents. Please reconsider your vote and think about it, discuss it, reach out to your constituents, and see where that need is in our community. This is not okay. You're going to hurt so many people who want to stay in Flagstaff. Our founding families shouldn't have to move because they know can no longer afford our rental places.

You have a choice today to lock this in and make sure that those families have an opportunity. This is your choice and your decision and on you. And I plead with you, please think this over and discuss and talk to people in your community. Thank you. Thank you, Nadine. And um Jennifer, just to to put a finer point on this, if I am a developer and I come to you with um rentals, just permanent rentals that could that are affordable, meet all the criteria, that is a project that could be funded.

Correct. Yes. Thank you. and Council Member House. Um, during the housing commission meeting, was this concern brought up? It was not, mayor, at least not to my recollection, and I would look to staff to correct me if I'm wrong on that. Um, yeah. Thank you. All right. So, I am looking for a motion. Mayor, I would like to move that we read resolution number two uh 2025-44 by title only. Is there a second? I'll second that. Any discussion? Mayor, if I may.

Um I just wanted to make an additional comment on this because I I think it would be a missed opportunity not to note um that many of the people who are uh in need of transitional housing are not simply transient. They are members of our community. They are people who have lived here for all of their lives. And I think that there are a number of us um myself included who could be considered one life event away from experiencing that same sort of need.

Um, and so that is part of why, mayor, I am so supportive of including that in this because it is part of our housing continuum. It's part of moving people from experiencing homelessness into that continuum of permanent housing and uh providing that opportunity. So that is why I am supporting this and I um uh respect and honor the opinions of those who may disagree with that, but I just wanted to have that stated for the record. Thank you very much. Thank you. Any other discussion?

All those in favor? I I Any opposed? Opposed? Okay. Uh, city clerk, a resolution of the Flagstaff City Council adopting the adaptive reuse bond program. Thank you. And a motion to adopt. Mayor, I move to adopt resolution number 2025-44. Second. Any discussion? All those in favor? I I. Any opposed? Nay. All right. Moving down um out of our regular agenda. Nope. Yes.

No, we're not moving out of our regular agenda down to item number C, which is consideration and approval of contract and consideration and direction on city petition. And I know that um this was a little confusing to the public. So, I just want to explain how this is going to go. We've grouped these two because they are so similar. So, um, we're going to be having a presentation by the police department about the contract and the cameras.

And then we are going to um welcome the the um petitioner to come forward and explain the petition. And then we are going to take public comment on either. So when you comment, you can comment on both, you can comment on one. Um then council will ask any council will ask questions and then we are going to um move into determining whether the petition moves forward or doesn't move forward. And based on that then is the decision about what to do um with the contract. And yes, so that's it for now.

Thank you. Good job, mayor, members of council, city management, community. um R, I and F, responsibility, innovation and fragility. And there was a recent panel uh with involving executives from NAU University and that conversation found its way into the impact of technology and the pressure that it applies on organizations and systems and all of us from a change conducive mindset. Um And it ended up in a conversation about fragility.

And I understand and it is with great respect that we have this conversation today. And I understand the fragility of the conversation rel related to trust and so many other things. I and I believe when policing in America um is rooted in a mindset that our job is the promotion and protection of civil and human rights are much more healthier as a policing entity in this country.

Um there's a story um many years ago in a police headquarters not far from here um where technology started to demonstrate its impact on not only this profession but others and it was centered in a conversation where a young lieutenant was typing typing on a typewriter a police report and a captain came into their into this office space and questioned him and then that lieutenant shifted to the first computer in this organization and asked him, "What the heck is that thing?" The lieutenant explained this technology to him and this captain ordered him directly to get off that computer and get back on the typewriter.

We will never use these things in this profession. There was also conversations back then about privacy related to the emerging technology of a computer in a police car. There's been conversation about the emergence of technology related to bodywn cameras and the incredible thing it's done for all of us and our legitimacy and transparency. But there were some tough days in hammering out the conversations rooted in privacy with that technology.

There were light conversations about the use of use of less lethal and tasers. So I just want to say first and foremost we always will take the emergence of new technologies and its impact on this profession through a victim centric approach um that is rooted in our commonalities as humans and I think it's really really important that we continue to further this conversation today.

Trust is so important in our profession and I've said this many times but I think I need to keep saying it and I'm going to say it again today. Um, we in the Flagstaff Police Department clearly understand that these are not our uniforms. This is not our authority. We do not own it. We lease it for a very small window of time on behalf of all the moral authority of the community members we see serve.

Right now, at this very minute, every day, there is a member of the Flagstaff Police Department working hard on behalf of the civil and human rights of this community and enforcing the law with a victim centric approach. You've also heard me talk about four pillars of this great police department, and we possess them. Those four pillars are rooted in phenomenal, meaningful, agile policy that is modern. You can't just have great policy though.

You have to have that policy cloaked and wrapped through tremendous repetition in training to re-emphasize the policy. The other part of that is you then have to have systems of accountability to hold ourselves accountable. You're going to hear all of these things in play today when we talk about automated license plate reading and how it's used on behalf of victims and the support of prosecution of those victims in our community.

There's been a lot of attention given to this and I've received a lot of support um from other parts of the state and in this region. Um NAU um the police chief has authored a letter on behalf of this technology as they were the first in this community um to have this technology and they use it um very effectively to make sure that campus is safe on a daily basis.

The county attorney um I think has wrote an email and and and some communication to everybody talking about how important and imperative at times. Um lacking some of the humanness and the human centric things that investigators have in real time for him and his office on behalf of victims in this community to to be successful and safe. The sheriff's office has also authored some documentation and communication on this and a lot of this is centered in some of our most vulnerable communities.

have relied on this technology for us to support them in their victimization as we all move forward. You heard me talk about policy. I believe as we stand here today that the Flagstaff Police Department's policy is modern, enlightened, and agile. But I want to say this and I want to say this to everybody.

As has physically been demonstrated recently in our work over many months with leadership from the mayor on this in partnering with keeping Flag Staff together, we revamped our immigration policy.

Let that be a demonstration to this community and this police department our of our ability to listen aggressively to the concerns, come together and shape meaningful policy that supports the victims in our community and adds efficiency and prowess to our ability to make this community safe into the future. I've also recently established police chief advisory boards.

We have an indigenous police chief advisory board that is made up of very influential, thoughtful individuals from the indigenous community who are helping us modify policy and continue to be on the cutting edge of thoughtfulness related to how we police. We have a crossability board. I'm open to a tech advisory police chief's board where we can continue to have these conversations as technology is fragile and innovation is coming and it continues to put pressure on all of us. We value so much.

We value immensely the community input engagement on everything we do. We are a transparent open book. I look forward to this conversation today being rooted in fact, being rooted in wisdom, logic as it applies to victimization in our community, and accountability of all of us.

As we move forward together on this, you're going to hear incredible stories, incredible stories of tragic victimization in this community where absent some of this plate and vehicle information, not personal information, we would not be here today on behalf of those victims supporting them in the way we have. And so, as we move forward, I just wanted to share a couple of those thoughts with you. Um I'm going to hand this over.

Um we have Trevor Chandler um from Flock Safety who is the director of public affairs. And then after that um we'll have Deputy Chief of Patrol Colins come up and give you some very valuable information about what the technology is, the history of the technology, our policies, and how how it's utilized in this city on behalf of of victims in our community. Thank you. Thank you, Chief Mayor Council.

It's a privilege to be able to talk to you all today uh about Flock as a tool, answer any questions you might have. One of the things we pride ourselves on is accessibility and transparency. Um and I'm looking forward to having that conversation today. And so I plan on taking only five minutes of your time, but again, happy to stay and answer any questions for as long as you might have. Again, focus on fact um and addressing uh what flock actually is.

So with Flock, uh, it's very a couple of things that are very important. The first thing that's very important to address is that you own your data. Flag staff owns Flagstaff's data. Not Flock. Flock contractually cannot sell and cannot share your data. Any of the images that are collected by Flagstaff's cameras are not dumped into a a giant pool of data. It it's specifically your data that can only be shared by you.

And we have created multiple tiers of sharing that to make sure that your community safety never has to come at the expense of your community values. So the that's the first uh item and we will never sell we are not data brokers. We do not sell data to make profit. That is not our business model. Our business model is selling this tool to communities. So we will never sell your private data. Uh second is Flock's private customers never have access to government data.

So there are some retailers that use Flock to fight organized retail theft. Um we have rental car companies that use Flock for various reasons. They can choose to share their cameras with law enforcement, but they will never get law enforcement data. They will never get alerts on the hot lists or or anything to that effect. So you own your data 100%. you choose uh whether or not you want to share it with any other community and no private entity will ever have access to your government data.

Uh it's also important to note Flock automatically deletes after 30 days any data that you have that isn't downloaded and used by Flagstaff authorities for evidentiary purposes. We do not keep data again keeping data is actually a cost. Um, and what this is is it's both an accountability mechanism to make sure that we're not collecting more and more data, but to also to make sure that you all are balancing your community values uh with community safety.

And again, only your agency uh decides who to share data with. And another extremely important thing to note, Flock in the cameras on your behalf collects no personally identifiable information. Nobody at Flock has access to any PII, no social security numbers, no um deeds or registars, the things that are in this building right now, incredibly sensitive information. Flock does not contain that.

All it contains is images of vehicles, license plates, which are a public document meant for public display on public roadways. And I think that's very important to note given the concerns nationally about what's going on is the fact that this is an incredibly important tool, but it is one that is a step removed from PII helping to alleviate some of those concerns.

Uh, and all of that data, despite the fact that it is a picture of a public document on a public on a public vehicle on a public road, we still encrypt all of that data, all of those images as if they were the most sensitive data out there, as if it was a social security number. This includes being certified by FBI CEUS standards. That means we are certified SOCK 2 type 2 auditing to make sure that our processes are continually protected. This includes HIPPA, FURPA, uh SOCK 3, ISO 270001.

Uh we treat this data uh as securely as most governments treat their most sensitive data like there is in this building with social security numbers with registars of deeds uh with that information and we're very proud of that and we're continually improving on it. But very important to know we do not own your data. Only you do. We do not sell or share your data. only uh the city of Flagstaff and your police department can make that decision.

Uh and we have no personally identifying information as a part of the images that we collect. So th those are a few very important things uh to note as we move forward. Now there's been obviously a broader conversation going on regarding tensions between states, localities, and the federal administration. And we are continually improving and upgrading our system to make sure again that your community safety never has to come at the expense of community values.

and we want to make sure that any sharing decision your department or your community makes can be fully aligned with your values. So, I wanted to highlight a couple of these upgrades that we have just introduced uh just in the last couple of weeks. First, uh we've introduced a keyword filter for prohibited searches.

So, especially for states that have sanctuary city laws, entities that have sanctuary city laws, uh if there is a search that violates uh those laws, it will not provide access to the system. you will not be able to use the system for that. So that's a very important one. It'll block the search from returning any data from those cameras.

And then when it comes to federal organization jurisdiction types, we've created a new federal organization tag to make it crystal clear uh when you're choosing who you decide to share with, if at all, that you know who you're sharing with. We've heard from some of our customers that it isn't clear enough uh who is where and who is what despite the name being there.

So we are going to make it crystal clear uh who these sharing partners are to make sure that again it's easier for agencies to understand who is requesting access and so they can comply appropriately according to your community's values and laws. And then we are adding additional limitations on federal organization types. Uh federal organizations do not have access to statewide or national lookup.

Federal organizations cannot access data from law enforcement agencies in states like Virginia or California. um even if the organization is based in one of those states. So we are providing additional layers of security at every level to again to make sure that community safety never has to come at the expense of community values. And you may hear about impact um and I want to provide you two organizations that can truly attest to Flock's impact that have vouched for LPRs.

The first is the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. This Nickmick as it's known runs the nation's Amber Alert program. They have fully endorsed Flock because they have been able uh utilizing Flock to find hundreds of missing children. Uh these are children that are abducted, taken across state lines. Uh people ask why sharing is important.

Uh if you choose to share, missing children is is one of the the biggest examples and that's why Nickmick is such a strong supporter of license plate reader technology. The next organization that again fully supports license plate reader technology is Mothers Against Drunk Driving. Uh this is a group whose sole purpose is to stop needless pointless deaths on our streets.

And just this past weekend, uh license plate reader camera was able to catch someone who buzzed by uh a school bus as schools were going to school, hit a nine-year-old. and LPR was able to find that person uh and provide the evidence necessary uh to prosecute them. And so you'll hear potential questions about the efficacy of whether or not do cameras bring down crime, do they not bring down crime, um any number of things.

What I also want to make sure that I impart here is the ability to prosecute crimes effectively uh with unbiased evidence. Up until this point uh of this era of license plate readers in the mo in most cases you relied on the subjective judgment of a police officer deciding which license plate which car was most suspicious to run which car was which person in which car was uh suspicious. LPRs take that potential subjectiveness and bias out of policing.

So you are only your law enforcement are only getting alerts to cars that have previously been identified as suspicious and wanted um in connection with a crime. So in reality, this is actually the opposite of mass surveillance as you might hear. This is actually precision policing. No longer in the event someone is kidnapped is every red F-150 a suspect.

Now you're looking for the F-150 and you're allowing your police officers and your law enforcement agencies to prioritize actual unbiased objective leads instead of the potential subjective judgment of who might be suspicious and who might not be. And then with transparency, it's very important to note every search requires a registered ID along with a search reason uh and potentially a case number depending on your policies.

Uh this is critical because even though the images themselves are deleted after 30 days, those searches are kept permanently. You can run an audit every quarter, every month, every day. And every single search both uh within your department and from whoever you chosen to share with is permanently logged.

Uh and so that provides a level of transparency where if there is a case where your data is not being utilized in the way you want by a particular agency, you can identify that quickly and you can revoke access. That is 100% you're right. You are not obligated to share with anyone. If someone's not using your data the way you think they should or that goes along with your community values, you all are in control of revoking that access.

Uh you may also hear uh some questions or concerns around litigation. Uh it's we there is one ongoing case in Norfol Virginia where this is uh coming up and ongoing. But in every other at the circuit level, at the federal level, and at the state level, LPR usage has been found constitutional under the Fourth Amendment. most recently in a circuit case in northern Chicago specifically said license plate readers are constitutional under the fourth amendment.

This is a level of case law uh that is really unprecedented as it relates to public safety technology. Um so there is one ongoing case but overwhelmingly at the circuit the appeals level uh LPR has been found to be constitutional and that leads me into my my last portion regarding uh privacy itself and what these cameras are and what they are. These cameras do not track the mo do not track the every movement of every single person wherever they go.

If that was true it would need a warrant under the fourth amendment. What these do, what these cameras do are take an individual picture at a point in time at a static uh location so that your law enforcement agencies can have a tangible objective piece of evidence that they can utilize to both identify u a potential suspect in a case as well as prosecute um those suspects in court. Uh this is not tracking.

This is not a uh a a camera that follows you everywhere you go, that can tell what you bought at a grocery store, uh that can tell where you go to church or what hospital you use. This is for objective individual evidence that can help your law enforcement agency do more with less. And so with that, uh I'm happy to answer any specific questions about the cameras, about the technologies themselves.

just really grateful for the opportunity to talk with you um and grateful for the opportunity to work with your agencies. Thank you. We have a question from Council Member Garcia. Thank you, Madame Mayor. And um I'm online today. I'm sorry I couldn't be there in person, but my day job had me in another location today. Um I have a question for the current um block representative.

So, as the mayor repres or as the mayor let us know earlier, we are here for kind of two separate things on on this one agenda topic. One of them is to continue our relationship with flock. I wanted the to ask the representative if we as a council decided that we needed more time to um for instance um put some town halls together or get more information and feedback from our community.

Do we have some flexibility as far as u getting this um contract um you know signed off on or extending flocks capacity here in Flagstaff? Could you give us the grade? Yeah, I will I will check into that. I feel confident uh that the answer is a yes, but not being a part of our sales or contract team as well as overstate law about utilizing something in a in that gray area, I would need to double check with them. Um I can tell you we're we're committed to being a good partner.

Um and and if if you with your legal department were able to identify that path to make it happen, I'm confident that we can make it happen. Thank you for answering in that question. And I had one other question. and I'm trying to figure out how to formulate it. And that is um the flock system when it's looking in on license plates or when it's looking on the exterior of a vehicle.

Um what what would in your opinion would be the distinction between pushing the envelope on our fourth amendment right or is everything that it's capturing outside the realm of our fourth amendment right? So uh great question. um Supreme Court case law has actually specifically exempted the exterior of a vehicle uh from that sort of search requirement.

And so there is actual case law where a uh a law enforcement official saw the exterior of a car, saw there, I won't get this precisely right, saw there was red paint on it, associated that with a hit and run, and use that as as cause u for further investigation. that was taken all the way to the Supreme Court saying you you can't use that because it was on my personal car. That was found uh to be allowed um by the Supreme Court.

And so that didn't directly impact uh LPR specifically, but it did demonstrate that the exterior of a car um is uh especially driven on a public road is uh not covered under the fourth amendment. The fourth amendment mosaic theory. happy to get into additional uh constitutional law with you. Um requires a a greater consistency of tracking of travel.

So while uh that would not violate the fourth amendment, putting a tracking device on a car uh would without a warrant would violate the fourth amendment uh by the what we have under the the constitutional case law. Because these are cameras stationed at a fixed location, they're limited in number.

um they are not able to track you from every single place you're able to go and their focus is on taking a image of a license plate which license plates are owned by the government and they are m meant for public uh they are these are documents that are legally owned by the government. They are made uh and meant to be publicly displayed when you are driving on public routes.

Um it has been consistently found uh in case law overwhelmingly that uh those images at a set point in time in a limited nature as Flag Staff's cameras are does not violate the Fourth Amendment. Thank you for that. That's all I have for now. Madam Council members Vice Mayor Swuite, thank you and thank you for being here tonight.

Trevor, um, we had a couple of written comments and one of the questions asked was, "What is the difference between a typical license plate reader and the Flock system?" Can you explain it to us? Yes. So, Flock uh, took what was a typical license plate reader system and allows for agencies to be able to share if they so choose.

Uh and so previously license plate readers whether they were in a computer in a uh squad car uh they would be able to uh previously type in the license plate see if it hit on anything within your agency's hit list or they would have a uh license plate reader on the dash cam of a car and do it that way. What this allows to if you choose is to be able to share with neighboring um uh agencies.

And so if you and Sedona or you in Phoenix decided to enter into a sharing relationship, so if you had a missing child uh that was associated with a red Ford F-150 license plate ABC123 uh and you're able to previously you were able to put that on your uh your AY's um APB and so if this came across any of your agencies only they would get that notification.

However, if that ABC123 was seen on Phoenix's license plate readers, that now not only alerts Phoenix to the fact that there is a vehicle associated with a missing child in Phoenix, but it'll also let your law enforcement agency know that as well. And so, that's really the the the groundbreaking nature of what this has provided, which is why groups like the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children um have so fully endorsed it. Thank you.

And to clarify, we share the information if and when we want to. It's not correct. Yeah. Correct. Flock does not make that decision for anyone. I think that's a very important thing to note. There's um you know some misinformation, misperception out there um that we are trying to get everyone on board so we can just you know monetize all all the data, have it all shared. That is simply not the case.

your data is in a box um on on our highly encrypted cloud that we use until you choose uh on who you want to share it with. That is solely your decision, not Flux. And I also just um I realized I forgot to mention this FL uh these LPR cameras, they do not have facial recognition technology either. And you cannot search uh the database for human characteristics. So I think that's also very important. These are cameras focused on vehicles to identify vehicles and license plates.

Thank you for clarifying, Council Member Elyn. Yeah, thank you, Trevor, for being here so much uh to speak with us and answer our questions and to address the community's concerns. Thank you, please, Chief, for your opening remarks. Um I want to springboard off of the vice mayor's question a little bit more. Walk me through what happens um with alerts. So, for example, say an agency somewhere east of the Mississippi um plugs in a license plate um because they're doing an investigation.

They want to track something down. If that license plate is seen in Flagstaff, even if we're not sharing information or willing to, will that agency get a ping that the license plate was moving through Flagstaff at a point in time? No.

Uh so that's a very simple answer but no if if there is no sharing relationship between you two um if if you are if say Flagstaff isn't opted into national lookup or that agency isn't at listed in national lookup you're only choosing to share within your state or however that will not be alerted. So thank you council member house. Thank you mayor. Thank you Trevor. Thank you, Chief.

Um, I know one of the major questions that we've received from our community has to do with um the potential for sharing information with uh federal entities and um use in federal immigration actions in particular. Um can you tell us anything more about Flock's current status of of sharing information for that purpose? Um or um where that stands in terms of communities that have adopted this sort of programming.

Um if we choose not to share that information, if whether or not Flock still has the ability to share our data, if they as a national organization are were were to be sharing it with those federal entities. Yes, thank you for that uh question. So there was a few month pilot project with both HSI which is Homeland Security Investigations and uh Customs and Border Patrol. These were pilots uh not official contracts.

Um and they were used to uh think about efficacy as it relates to human trafficking and fentanyl uh trafficking. Uh we have since ended those pilots. They do not have a access to the system at all currently. And as I mentioned earlier, any uh federal agency that uh may get access to Flock will not have access to the state lookup or the national lookup.

So they will only be able to uh utilize or engage with entities or with agencies that have agreed to have a direct sharing relationship with them. So if that were ever to be the case, uh Flag Staff would get a request from any one of these agencies. And we've again updated our marking to make very very clear uh what is a federal agency. So it is blindingly clear.

Uh so you all can make a decision based on your community's values as to whether or not you want to accept that sharing request or not. So uh but again you own your data and so Flock will never share your data in a way that you have not explicitly consented to. Sterling. Thank you, Mayor and Council, and I appreciate the flock representative being here today and the presentation and the questions that he's answering. Um, some of them have kind of strayed into areas of legal questions.

I just want to remind council obviously we had an executive session before the meeting started today the regular meeting and if you have any additional legal questions while we appreciate his um statements and answers to the questions if you're looking for legal advice I would recommend either we go back up into executive session if you have any legal questions or anything along those lines just as a reminder just want to make sure and I would agree with that. All right.

I don't see any additional questions. Um, so thank you. Thank you. Good evening, mayor and council, uh, city leadership, members of the community. I'm Colin C. I'm the deputy chief of patrol division. So today I'm going to have a presentation on automata automated license plate readers uh, for you today. Um so first our mission is to protect and preserve life, property and public order through elite service.

Elite service can mean a lot of things but to me it means the highest level of service to victims as to reduce the fear of crime in our community and and I am dedicated and committed to appropriately leveraging the use of technology in order to serve our victims when they're victimized of crime. But we are also cognizant and respect the community's right to privacy at the same time. Um, a little bit about our ALPR program. We first brought a contract to council on June 18th of 2024.

Uh, which was approved by the budget team and was approved by the previous council. Um, after that we requested and received permits through the city on city infrastructure and through the Arizona Department of Transportation to install cameras on ADOT infrastructure. uh flock cameras went live approximately October of 2024. Uh community members uh shared comments with council in March 2025 council meeting and then we discussed some follow-up questions with the council after that meeting.

Uh recently on July 30th uh the Arizona Daily Sun did a article on our ALPR program here for the Flagstaff Police Department. So here's what an ALPR camera is on the left of the screen. It is basically a solar powered camera that is connected to either a fixture or a piece of city or ADOT infrastructure. And then that is a cellular powered uh internetbased camera that takes the pictures. So that's what it is. They are fixed. They're in 32 locations in Flagstaff.

And the image on the right that uh like Trevor just said that is what you see if you query a vehicle in the flock operating system. So you see the license plate and you see the rear of the vehicle. There's no personal identifying information. You cannot see the driver, but that is what you can see and we query this after we believe a crime has occurred. So if we're investigating a crime, we enter our personnel information.

We enter the type of crime that we're investigating and then we have access to the system. So, I'd like to go over a few cases that we've had prior to our ALPR program that we think were very impactful, very personal to this community, that mean a lot to some of the investigators that were in here and mean a lot to some investigators who have since left the agency and possibly retired.

Uh, the first one that was very close to me and Deputy Chief Fernandez and other members of the community was or of the agency uh was a pedestrian hit and run of a 17-year-old victim, Jennifer Beay. that happened at the Fourth Street Bridge in front of Wore on Fourth Street. Uh we responded to her deceased on the side of the road. Uh we did CPR and life-saving measures. We never had a lead in that case. A 17-year-old girl never returned home to her family.

She was extremely vulnerable, often a runaway. Uh we dealt with her very regularly, but unfortunately we never found her killer. She was hit and killed by a vehicle. That vehicle left into Flagstaff and we never solved that crime. that bothers me today to tell you that story. But that's, you know, our commitment to victims is why we want this system. It's why we've had this system and we've had great successes.

Uh, one that as we were, you know, testing products and seeing different ALPR technologies back in 2023, this case, the sexual assault case that occurred in Parkinson 66 haunts me very much. A young female is walking to work to Safeway on North Highway 89. A vehicle in a white Ford Mustang with ineligible license plate pulls up, pulls a gun on our victim, and sexually assaults her on the side of the road. The sexual assaults corroborated by some very poor footage of a local business there.

Uh the female uh was a victim, a true victim, and we never were able to make contact with the suspect. That case is unsolved. We think with our ALPR system today, and we'll provide some cases at the end of this, we would have had a lead and we would able to hopefully make it make some justice for this victim. Another one very recent that that impacted our community tremendously was the June 2024 m murder of Kayie Palicowski.

That one we were able to make an arrest, but it took several days and with misdirection by the suspect in multiple directions involving vehicles, we were unable to find Kelly in a timely manner. We were able to make a clearance on this, but it wasn't, I think, the way we could handle it today with our existing automated license plate reader uh technology. Uh if you could afford me a little bit of time, I'd like to have everybody kind of do an exercise together.

Imagine a nice June day and you're driving home to a Flagstaff neighborhood and you see potentially your nine-year-old child or somebody you love more than anything on the side of the road riding the bicycle and you make it to the house and your loved one is going to meet you at the house. Uh you wait around, your loved one never shows up. So you go back to the scene, you find her bicycle tipped over on the side of the road and she's gone.

You see a blazer speeding away at a high rate of speed and you don't know what happened to your daughter. So just imagine that your daughter is now gone. So as as Trevor just talked about missing children and flock recovering children. Imagine that's the situation that you're in. Every second matters, every minute matters because now your loved one is in harm's way. To put some perspective to this, this is a 1988 case in Flagstaff.

Probably one of the most significant child abductions in the state of Arizona. This is probably one of the biggest cases in the Flagstaff Police Department. That child was beaten, sexually assaulted, and killed and left behind sheep sheep's hill. My research into that quot into that older case, there was about a two-hour window that law enforcement could have had to potentially recover Jennifer Wilson. They weren't able to for several days until they found her dead body.

We were able to make a case through amazing and outstanding and state-of-the-art police work for the time in 1988. My father-in-law was one of the lead investigators on that case and we brought justice to Ricky Bible. It's one of the only death penalty cases that I know coming out of the city of Flagstaff. But that is how horrific a child crime case is to this community, any community. And when you need technology, police department needs it all.

We need it now so we can be able to help our victims. That's the merit. That's the reason why we have this. and why we want it and that's why we're asking for an amendment to this contract. So, what an AP al ALPR is, as Trevor said, it takes still images of license plates and the rears of vehicles as they pass a fixed location where APR is located. It creates a date and time of when that vehicle was there and there's no personal identifying information.

Uh the date is owned by the FAFD and it's stored for 30 days. Uh, ALPR technology will notify through the National Crime Information Center if a stolen vehicle, a missing person, a wanted person, a protective order, a terrorist related activity, an Amber Alert, a sex offender, a blue alert, a silver alert, and now a turquoise alert. If one of those vehicles has entered our community, we've had numerous success stories where dangerous people have entered the city of Flagstaff.

We're able to protect our citizens leveraging technology. An offic off officer can query the ALPR system as I talked about earlier uh after they input an auditable criminal justice purpose their their badge number and identification and those are all auditable by our quality control through our professional standards office. An officer can also create a hot list only after receiving supervisor approval.

So for example, let's go back to I'm not going to go back to 1988, but I'll go back to Friday. We had an individual who was not hired by the Flagstaff Medical Center who was upset. So he decided to call in what they interpreted as an active shooter to the hospital. So that that is a horrific threat. Almost had the hospital on the verge of lockdown.

Uh so we could create a hot list for that person in that vehicle or that vehicle not the person to see if it is in Flagstaff or it's driving around or possibly coming to the hospital. were able to use that technology on Friday to discover that the individual's vehicle was on the reservation and not a threat to the to the Flagstaff Medical Center. Investigators were able to work that lead and were able to make the community safe and put uh some ease to our partners at the hospital.

I think spoke to us earlier. One thing that's worth mentioning, seven out of 10 crimes in America involve a vehicle. I think the number might even be a little bit higher. But you think about hitting somebody with a vehicle, abducting somebody, a DUI investigation, a bank robbery, or there's a getaway driver. So many crimes involve a vehicle. That's why this system is so powerful for us to be able to solve crime after a crime occurs. So there are competitors on the market.

I think Flock Safety has kind of taken the lead as kind of the uh figurehead of of ALPR technology. Uh the reason we went I mean the company started in 2017. Uh it was a created by the owner as a blockwatch tool. I think their neighborhood was getting burglarized and having crimes within the neighborhood. So they created as a blockwatch tool and they first marketed it to police agencies in 2019. Uh it helped recover over a missing a thousand missing persons.

They only have 30 days of storage and they have the audit log that I've discussed that you can't just anybody just can't search the system and it's not tracked. So, I think some of the competitors on the market are trying to adopt to catch up to flock safety on their transparency and their ability uh to have some of this audit and 30-day storage stuff. Motorola Vigilant is another company that's out there and Axon International is in development.

Uh and that product is not currently on the market. But we did look at all competitors for the best value for the city. And ultimately Flock Safety after our one-year trial from 2024, our officers are using it. They're having great success. Our victims are receiving justice and they didn't want me to change it.

They said, "This is the one we want." So to go over our policy a little bit, they must attend an in-house training on the usage of the flock operating system and they also must pass exams uh related to uh the search tool and the alert certifications. Uh they must go over our policy with our legal adviser who's behind us, Maryanne Sullivan.

Then if the officer is in the field and they receive say a missing person alert on their on their device either on the computer or on their personal or work own device they must verify that plate before they take enforcement action. So to do that you use the national crime information center or you use a sieges which is the Arizona criminal justice information center or system and that those databases are protected by law. It is a felony to misuse those uh databases.

So they must now that they have I would say suspicion that they're out with a missing person, they must confirm that before they take any enforcement action. They don't just use what they get off the flock system and just immediately start contacting the public. They must verify some things and do some investigation. And then again, if we're going to create a hot list, say in your neighborhood, say Mobile Haven neighborhood, we have vehicles involved in burglary and violence uh and drug dealing.

Okay, we could create a hot list at that point when we have potentially probable cause or close to probable cause that this this vehicle is involved in crime. Then we enter that into a hot list and then those hot lists typically expire within a month and then an officer could be alerted if that vehicle is going to a suspect's or to a victim's location. Uh but those have to be approved by a supervisor and they are audited on a regular basis every month.

So into auditing, I am currently the ALPR administrator who oversees the program with Lieutenant Dar. Uh we have an in-house trainer uh who teaches the program and goes over the policy and that's officer Condan. The office office of professional standards conducts monthly audits of inquiries and hot lists to ensure the system is being used correctly. And then all hot lists must be approved by a supervisor, have an expiration date, and are routinely audited.

So here's currently our flock deployment generally they are on major intersections in the city of Flagstaff uh major ingress and egress locations into the city. Uh they're not just randomly placed into specific neighborhoods. They are there for a specific reason to protect to protect the general community. We do have four battery operated flex cameras. So those are portable cameras and those can be moved.

So, say for example, the hospital incidents, the incident I discussed, they were afraid somebody was going to come and attack innocent people at the hospital. We could potentially with the approval of myself and the chief deploy those maybe on Cedar Hill because we are afraid maybe this suspect could come to the house and that way officers in real time could get information that that suspect who could potentially come to harm people is coming to the Flagstaff Medical Center.

Another example of how that camera has been used and I'll give up. We had a city employee create a threat or a potential threat against other city employees at a city facility to the point where administrators, city leadership, the police department, we were very concerned for the safety of the employees at the city facility.

We're able to deploy those cameras in the parking lots of the city facility to make sure that that vehicle of that former employee who was upset didn't show up at at the place of work and try to harm one of our employees. So, it has a very situational use. I think we've maybe used it two or three times since we've had those, but they have a very specific use uh with our flock deployment.

So agency data sharing, I think Trevor talked about this and this is elective by the agency and I'll discuss a little bit with how we're sharing our data. Uh when Mr. Mclofflin did a story previously, uh we were sharing our uh data with 146 police agencies, majority of those being Arizona. Uh but some of them were from other agencies who requested data sharing with us. Flock recently introduced a tool. It was a tab on the administrative bar to restrict that to Arizona agencies only.

So, we went ahead and opted into that. We heard what community was saying and we think it makes the most sense just for interoperability with the Arizona police agencies. Now, Trevor mentioned national lookup and statewide lookup. We are currently have this the national lookup turned on and this goes back to interoperability between public safety in times of crisis. For example, in 911 when before that when agencies did not talk very well together and affected the response which costs lives.

You go back to hurricane Katrina no preparation and law enforcement agencies and public safety agencies were had the inability to coop or communicate with each other effectively which affects the response. So just recently because of our out ofstate uh national lookup we had a local business in town uh have two trailers stolen off very valuable trailers to them with a bunch of personal information or personal effects in the trailers.

We were able to use the national lookup and we located those trailers out of state. All we got was that picture of the license plate, the picture of the rear of the vehicle and where it was at and the date and time. And then our detectives reached out to that agency, worked closely with that agency and were able to recover those trailers for our victim. Crime has no borders. I could think back to another crime that was very impactful.

Katherine Grosby bailed out Charles Maison out of our county jail back in 2017. Uh she was in love with Charles Maison. They they go to Williams. They spend some time in Williams sometime between Williams and Mayor. She's killed and then her body is later located by investigators and mayor. Maison takes her vehicle and her credit cards and her wallet. He goes down to the Mexico border on the Arizona side. He picks up a friend. They go start committing crimes all over Arizona.

They go to the Tucson Mall and he uses her her credit cards which are now determined to be suspicious because they're being used by somebody that's not her. Uh he proceeds to rob a bank. He does a home invasion. He robs some Arizona State students. And he was going to potentially kill as many people as he needed to to get away with his crimes. When this happened, we learned about it the day after.

Uh myself, several detectives, Corporal Ashland, who's one of our patrol supervisors, we reached out to uh the state level for assistance on this. Uh within two hours, uh Maison's was located in Katherine's vehicle down in Phoenix on a LPR, ALPR, which led to the arrest of Maison. Uh that case was very impactful for this city. A very prominent person from outside of this city was killed. But the ability to use that technology when everything counts.

When people are being victimizing crimes like that and criminals like that, they have no borders. They they'll go as far as they need to go. And this is one example why the success when these infrastructures are now in place. This this was before 2019 when the flock exists for law enforcement. If we had this in place, we'd have been able to hopefully capture this suspect before uh he was able to victimize more people in other communities.

Uh I'd like now to bring up a close friend of mine and colleague, Detective Jared Botasic. He's one of our senior criminal investigators. He's been in the unit for over 15 years, and he'd like to tell you about some of the cases since we've had the Flock system. Good evening, mayor and council. I'm Jared Watassic with the police department. I just really appreciate this opportunity to speak with something I think is very important to discuss. Been with the department about 19 years.

15 of those have been as a detective. Um, as Deputy Chief C talked about, um, I was a part of a lot of those investigations as well. I've had an incredible career full of really amazing moments. Uh, but at the same time, I've been witnessed firsthand of other people's worst tragedies. One of the hardest parts of this job is when those tragedies go unsolved and we got to talk with the victims and their families.

You have that heartto-he heart with them and all you can really say at that point is you're sorry, but we just don't know who killed your daughter, left her lifeless in the road. Or you're talking to that victim. You can tell her really sorry we saw that video, but we still don't know who held you at gunpoint, forcefully raped you when all you were doing was walking to work. Our citizens deserve better than that.

I spent the last 19 years dedicated to doing everything we can kind of minimize these outcomes. Uh, one of those including leveraging technology. One things is important if we talked about DNA back in the day was something that was new. People were scared of it a little bit, but now it's a staple in our career. Um, ALPR is another one.

Thankfully, the city manager's office last year uh with the help of city council budget team approved this pilot program for us to use flock for the past year and we've had successes on a day-to-day basis. Um this technology is absolutely game-changing for our department in terms of solving the crimes but also the service to our community which is our number one priority. On August 12th of this year, I was the on call detective. I received a call about 3 in the morning.

This is from the on duty supervisor. They notified me that we had a fatal hit and run collision. He told me all the information we had was a passer buyer reported that a male was lying in the roadway and there was some vehicle debris. We had no witnesses, no suspects, no nothing. This was eerily similar to that Jennifer Pay case that I worked 14 years prior, but the big difference in this one is we had that ALPR technology.

Within one hour of this case, we're able to locate that vehicle um and apprehend the suspect and bring him into custody. This allowed us the immediate closure to that family, to the friends, and the community as a whole. And we're able to hold that person accountable for those actions. The technology has also been instrumental in solving other major violent crimes.

One of them included right off the bat in October of last year, we had a heinous sexual assault turned into a homicide and AOP ALPR technology was instrumental in locating that suspect as he came back into our jurisdiction. Without it, we wouldn't have been able to locate him and arrest him as quickly as we did. It's also has a real impact on our citizens on a day-to-day basis. It's helped us solve numerous shootings, include a road rage incident from the downtown area.

Um, there was another shooting involving some gang activity in a local gas station. And even as late as last week, it was last Thursday morning. If you guys saw in the paper, we had another shooting in the downtown area that stemmed from a bar incident. Uh, but that morning, we were able to get a slight description, use the AOPR system to find the suspect and had him apprehended later that day.

So again, closure all within 24 hours before he could hurt anyone else, before anything else could happen. It also helped us solve sorry locate many nu numerous missing and suicidal individuals. We had one recently uh where female is going through a really rough time contemplated suicide by train. Um using this technology we were able to locate her parked next to the train tracks and we're able to help her before she made that permanent decision to end her life.

There's other cases where we're able to help other people get them into that treatment that they need um before they able to harm themselves or others. And it's also used in crimes seen as less serious things like property crimes, uh, vehicle thefts, burglaries, theft from businesses, criminal damages, non-injury, hit and run collisions. And right now, it's not necessarily a people or a person that gets hurt in this, and it's just property, but it has a meaningful impact on our citizens.

I'll give you example of a call I took a couple weeks ago. Guy had called in, reported that his toolbox was stolen from a job site. He had some video of it, but based on the video, it was pretty far away. You saw a color of the vehicle, general description, but nothing enough to develop some suspects. He was able to give us a kind of a time frame. Using ALPR technology, we were able to identify that suspect vehicle. Officers were able to contact them and then recover that tools.

And again, it's just property, but for a lot of people, that's their livelihood. That's what they use each and every day to make some money, jobs, to provide for their family. It's a very tough economic place we live in. And each day they're without those tools is another burden towards them. they deserve. So the quicker we can solve these crimes, get that property back into their possession and help them is the better service we have for our community. Let me give you another example.

Hypothetically, you drive home tonight, you guys park your car, go in your house, you go to bed, you wake up tomorrow going to work, you walk outside, and your car is gone. At this point, you have your keys. You have no idea who would want to steal your vehicle, but you know that it's gone. All you can give police at this point is an eight hour window of when it could have been stolen, but you got nothing else. Traditionally, that case is pretty unsolvable.

Generally, wait a couple weeks, maybe a month, maybe two, where you find it abandoned outside of our city somewhere in a desert. At this point, that vehicle is usually heavily damaged, wrecked. Um, all the stuff that was in it that meant anything to you was gone. However, now with this ALPR technology, if you gave us that license plate, we can see exactly when it drove through our city. We now have a very tight window of when it was stolen.

We have the ability to look up um other surveillance video from around such as Ring doorbells, business cameras, maybe get a suspect description, and kind of the key is whether it left Flag Staff or not. If it stayed within our city, we know exactly where to allocate our resources to find that vehicle quickly. But if it left, that's where sharing comes in. A lot of times it leaves our jurisdiction, goes down to Phoenix, goes out of state.

But again, we're able to enter that license plate into the system and those officers get that immediate hit. And now, not only do we have our officers looking for it, but we have way more resources out there looking for your vehicle. The odds of finding it quickly are exponentially higher. And when we do find it quickly, one, the suspect's usually still driving it, so we know who did it, can hold them accountable. But two, that vehicle is a higher likelihood of not being damaged.

And all that personal property that means stuff to you, we can get it back and recover. And even again, even if it's property, it still means a lot to our citizens. And it's a service that they deserve. This technology is really about people. It's really about the impact on their lives. Um, you've heard some of the stories. We have some success stories on here. It's not just about Sorry. It enhances our ability to do our mission.

As Deputy Chief C mentioned earlier, the mission of the Flagstaff Police Department is to protect and preserve life, property, and public order through elite service. It also furthers the mission of the city of Flagstaff, which is to protect and enhance the quality of life for all. This technology allows us to do that.

Allows us to protect people's lives, allows it to bring closure to those victims families, and allows those outcomes and those things that we never would have been solved to be solvable. And to me, that is the definition of service at a higher elevation. Thank you. Thanks, Jared. I'd like to read a letter real quick uh from Chief Cara Riley who's the chief of police of Oro Valley Police Department and she's also the board president for the Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police.

On behalf of the Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police, I'm writing this letter in strong support of the use of license plate readers. LPRs are crucial to investigations often done in real time. Uh the information they collect can show where a vehicle has been, the direction the vehicle was traveling, and collaborate or discredit witness statements. They have been they have been used to help solve crimes, including robberies, kidnappings, and homicides.

They can also uh help in locating missing pe missing or endangered people. In short, they give officers solid leads and save valuable time. This time is not only valuable to officers, but it is also invaluable to the victims of potential or potential victims in these cases. LPRs have raised concerns about privacy, but it is worth noting that nearly all of us are on camera dozens of times a day in our technology-driven world.

It is also important to recognize that LPRs are very limited as they only track vehicles, not people. Finally, LPRs must be utilized by police agencies with the highest degree of fairness, responsibility, and the community trust. This includes LPR usage, has clear policies and procedures that are managed and audited like all the things in the in law enforcement profession.

And that's what I'm asking this council and the community to do is is to trust me and to trust Chief Connelly and our leadership team that we're going to hold ourselves accountable, that we're going to have great policy, that we're going to hold our hiring standards to the highest standard possible so we're going to have the right people serving the the community of Flagstaff and that if there ever was a misuse of the system, we're going to hold each other accountable uh for that.

So, we will be here if there's any questions or or comments and I look forward to the dialogue. Thank you. Council, do you have any questions? Okay. Uh, Chief, did you want to say something? Oh, all right. If council doesn't have any questions, then we are going to move on to the petition and start public comment. And before I do this, I always like to remind all of us that we want um everyone to feel safe and comfortable giving testimony before the city council.

um it's stressful enough to get up on camera and and speak before us and um so we want to demonstrate respect and one way that we do that is by no demonstration of approval or disappoint or uh disagreement. So no applauding, no booing. Um we're just taking public comment. We want to hear what everyone has to say. So, um, first I invite Brendan Trashel, um, up as the petitioner to talk about, um, the petition. Good evening, mayor and council.

My name is Brendan Traxel and it is my privilege to speak before you for the third time in opposition to Flagstaff's flux surveillance system. Every time I come back to speak, the news is more dire regarding our civil liberties, highlighting the essential need to end this contract as soon as possible. This petition is our opportunity to get Flock out a flag.

For those who don't know, Flock cameras continuously scan, track, and store license plate information along with distinguishing features such as vehicle color, stickers, accessories, and damage for every single car that comes into their view. Not just cars with warrants, Amber alerts, or stolen reports. Everyone. No crime, no accusation, no suspicion. Just mass data collection and a private warrantless database shared statewide. This is plainly dragnet surveillance.

And I could say affirmatively that if you drove here today, you were tracked. Flagstaff PD argues these cameras give them more tools. And they do. Mass surveillance gives government more power. This power is precisely why I stand against it. Privacy is not about hiding wrongdoing, but about protecting ourselves from unchecked judgment and abuse.

A system that without cause surveills our daily movements, uses AI to establish suspicion, is accessible without probable cause, and is shared with other agencies with no accountability to our community, is right for abuse. This abuse is not hypothetical. It is proven. A police chief in Kansas used Flock to stalk his ex-girlfriend over 200 times. A cop in Texas searched nationwide for a woman suspected of having an out ofstate abortion.

Police departments gave access to ICE, DEA, and other federal agencies because they don't have access. They don't have a contract to access it themselves. False positives lead to guns out altercations terrorizing children and families. This is happening across the country precisely because so many cities have put their people in the position we find ourselves in today. Causeless mass collection of data ready to be used for whatever the government desires.

The mere existence of this database is a threat. Even more pertinent is the protection of our community from the tyranny we're yet to face. As we speak, our federal administration is partnering with Palanteer to consolidate formally separate databases in a one with all of our information. What irreparable harm will occur if that data base is combined with this one with all of our movements and information? This breach of privacy and rampant abuse is not without attention.

A federal lawsuit against the city of Norfolk's use in flock is moving forward, arguing that they constitute an illegal search in violation of the Fourth Amendment. Congress is investigating flock cameras in cities like Denver, Austin, Eureka, and Sedona have acted against flock. Now is the time for Flag Staff to put this on a future agenda and end the contract as soon as possible. Thank you. I'm open for questions. Thank you. Next up, we have Kai Kelly. Good evening, council.

Um, I uh I was elated to see that we have a representative from Flock here tonight to uh protect their government contract revenue as other cities continue to abandon their products. I mean, actually, like a hard act to follow. So, I think uh you should get erased, sir. Um they they say it's not tracking. They use a lot of language to say it's not tracking, but it functionally is. Uh it's functionally a GPS tracker on everyone's car uh at all times.

Um typically, you need a warrant for a police tale. Um and but this is being mediated by a private company. Um I think it's ridiculous that we're having conversations about constitutional infringements at city council. Um, and I would also ask if any of you are personally comfortable with this. Um, I mean, I know we heard a lot of stories tonight of crimes that have taken place that may make us very emotional and I think I heard about murder, rape, child abduction, and 911.

Uh, but we were also told to imagine horrible scenarios in our head. And look, I no one's saying we don't want justice for victims, but I would ask what the cost for that is. Um I don't have anything to hide personally, but I don't want to live in a surveillance state. Um I would also ask who is liable for when flock inevitably makes an error. I mean, we're asking to put all our trust in artificial intelligence. Um yeah.

Uh I'd also be remissed if I didn't point out that the city has had a contract with Flock for just over a year now. Uh and only since they have come under scrutiny uh after they were noticed by a individual citizen has PD been highlighting the use of Flock in successful arrests. So you know it it does feel like there's a lack of trust if they're if they're being secret. Additionally, it was believe originally a consent agenda item.

Um, and I believe that the city typically uh has discussions about whether to adopt uh contracts. Um, I'm I'm not an expert, but it does feel like um it was pushed through with no discussion, and here we are uh a year later um asking you to not renew your contract. Thank you. Thank you, Mallister Banks. Hello everyone. This is my first time uh coming to something like this ever.

But um I just wanted to speak because it's very passionate to all of us that we are all now being tracked as we travel around our state and country by an advanced network of thousands of cameras built upon artificial intelligence software by the private for-profit company Flock Safety. And I find it interesting that the flock representative and police department, neither of them mentioned anything about crimes being committed with no plates or fake plates, which are very common.

And obviously there's a lot of crime that needs to be addressed. But u the reason they didn't is because the capabilities of these cameras are incredibly advanced, more than anyone's able to prosecute for. And um these cameras have been secretly deployed in thousands of communities across the nation. Hundreds appearing throughout different parts of our state in the past year, funded with our tax dollars without any notice to the community or news orgs.

These are not speed cameras, and they're much more advanced than typical automatic license plate reader technology. These cameras and their AI software run 24/7, capturing and storing millions of pictures of us all in our vehicles, identifying details, including but not limited to dents, scratches, and bumper stickers, as well as all of our movement patterns and behaviors in order to identify, you know, suspicious behaviors in an act of like pre-policing with obviously no warrants or anything.

All of which is constantly being stored and analyzed by Flock Safety's AI learning tools and organized into individual profiles only being deleted after 30 days to make room for more data. And this level of pre-policing and surveillance is ridiculous and dystopian. And the capabilities of these cameras, like I said, go beyond much farther than what they're already being used for. And this technology has no place in our society. And you know, they don't track. They do track us.

They said they don't, but there's nowhere I can travel to avoid these. And I remember when these first, you know, were popping up in the Phoenix Valley, you know, a couple years ago, and now they're in every section of the state. It's like very concerning, like I said, with no announcement to anyone. Um, rural communities as well as all over the county, Loop Road and Townson, Winona Road that weren't listed on their map and additionals.

And VLO's existence is already suffocating our rights and we can't travel anywhere, like I said, without running into them. and they do in fact have the abilities to take high quality photos of our faces and interiors of our vehicles. This information will be shared across the country and Sedona successfully paused their program as well as Austin, Texas was able to remove these cameras and I know we can do it too and this you know system is ripe for abuse and just scary.

So thanks for having me everyone. Thank you, Tristian Ugalde. Good evening. I'd like to thank Flagstaff City Council for taking the time to listen to community members. I had heard first of flock cameras three years ago in October of 2022 when a Kansas police officer Victor Hire was arrested to one count of stalking and one count of unlawful acts concerning computers. Hyer had been found to have used data from local flock cameras to track the movements of his ex-wife.

If we fast forward to August of 2024, a Kansas police chief, Lee Nygard, utilized flock camera footage for the same ends to stalk his ex-wife. But outside the realms of law enforcement abuses, other issues abound. In May of this year, a woman who was hunted down by Texas law enforcement for traveling state lines to receive reproductive care. How are these instances intended to keep communities safe?

How does punishing women or allowing their exartners to surveil, harass, and intimidate them make our public safety more robust or our communities safer? Does it make us freer? The answer is clear. They do not. Technologies such as flock cameras and other AI powered license plate readers erode our privacy and our rights and our democracy. They allow local law enforcement agencies to track not just the whereabouts of criminals but unsuspecting community members such as you or I.

And these concerns do not begin to address the environmental impacts that AI technology demonstrates where massive amounts of electricity and water are generated to protect AI hardware. That is something that should concern all of us who live in the Southwest. The news stories I share are not hypotheticals. They are facts. and they illustrate one glaring fact that flock cameras are incompatible with the values of the Flagstaff community.

The enforcement of a strict surveillance state is incompatible with our values as Americans where our freedom of speech, religion, and press necessarily result from the protections of our private lives. I have the utmost faith that Flagstaff City Council will make the decisions necessary to protect their constituents from the all-seeing eye of surveillance technology in our neighborhoods.

I ask that you terminate any current and current future contracts with flock safety and protect our community and our resources. We have already paid the price with taxpayer dollars and further erosion to our rights of privacy, but I fear that that cost is too high. Thank you council members for your time. Thank you Jill Stevenson. Thank you for hearing us all. This is a very important issue as I'm sure you all realize at this point.

I can certainly appreciate uh the help to police using these block cameras. However, many of us are already feeling that our constitutional freedoms are being undermined. The idea of surveillance cameras in Flagstaff recording our locations and activities feels like an invasion of our rights to privacy. How is this different from big brother watching us? I'm especially concerned about the possibility of hacking these systems.

I mean, hackers have become so sophisticated and and able to hack almost any electronics anywhere. I think this is a definite possibility. And what if the federal government demands that we share resulting information with them specifically with ICE? What do we do? Possibly if all citizens would step up and report any crimes they see instead of turning a blind eye, uh that might help the police. We would all become more active members of our community.

and these surveillance cameras would not be necessary. I also appreciate the point that Tristan brought up about AI taking so much more of our energy and water and I think this is a major part of the consideration of this kind of effort. So I would hope that you would not renew the contract. Thank you very much for listening. Thank you. Elizabeth Deer. Hello. Thank you for having us. Uh my name is Elizabeth. I live in the city limits.

Uh I'm here to hopefully advance further discussions about the contract with Block. Uh my most important point for consideration is the idea that citizens have no desire to be surveiled and tracked by their government since the revolutionary war. Um in fact this has been explicitly stated in our contract between the government and citizens our constitution. Uh aside from that I do have a few other points.

So I believe that flock camera systems goes against community policing policies to remove u the human element from law enforcement. uh hire more cops, train more cops, host community meetings, just spend the time it takes to build relationships. Like those are all alternatives to using AI and camera systems. Uh when people detach from what makes us human, we end up with violence and crime. So we want our children to learn and use pro-ocial skills and not spend all day on a device.

Um flock encourages this detachment and discourages human connection. Uh, the cameras were floated on the idea that they're for our safety. So, um, I expect every hit and run to be busted. Every child that's hit by a car and they escape. Um, but we don't have any cameras at or near our Flagstaff schools that I'm aware of. Um, I do see six or seven at Home Depot, though. The technology is used at the discretion of those in charge of them.

uh flock profits from data it collects and we have no disclosures of any government personnel who may have a capitalizing interest. Not making any accusations here. Uh but data is val valuable. Um if it wasn't then ransomware wouldn't exist. Uh are we getting disclosures each time our data is compromised? There have been data breaches of Flock intel and then breaches of Flock's contracts with governments. Um, I believe Flock needs to pay us for the data instead of the other way around, honestly.

Um, data is important. Uh, in fact, the lack of compensation seems like a violation of the Fifth Amendment if anybody's asking. Uh, Flagstaff has a new $200,000 grant with an IGA between the city and the Border Patrol to ensure the sharing of information. Uh, there was nothing stopping communication between law enforcement agencies before this agreement.

um and before flock since we don't know the contents of our flock contract we don't know if this IG grant and flock are related um we don't know what's being shared with ICE the distrust that flock has brought to this relationship this relationship between us and you all um outweighs any supposed benefits so um a better use of funds might be to train staff and cops to respond to calls like maybe DV calls those are the most dangerous for police officers Um, thank you for hearing us today.

Thank you, Deborah Block. Mayor council we're living in a time when what has been the basis of American freedom, our constitutional rights, is under assault from our own government. Birthright citizenship, freedom of speech, and freedom of assembly are challenged and undermined regularly. The rule of law and the guarantee of due process is shattered daily.

The consent of the governed is uniquely impuged when our military is deployed against us and people are kidnapped off our streets by authorities. Yet in this environment, we are asked to accept a tool of mass surveillance. I say no. Despite the ugliness of some of our history, our country has also proclaimed worthy ideals such as equality for all, and we have accordingly made some progress.

When I was a teenager, women were generally refused credit without a male co-signer, could be fired for pregnancy, could not take legal action against workplace sexual assault. Today, a woman's right to vote is under threat, and abortion is again largely illegal. Our rights are being abregated. One of the greatest threats to civil rights is mass surveillance. There is no privacy under mass surveillance. Data collection and analysis occurs without consent.

I am far more frightened by the implications of mass surveillance than of being a victim of crime. Though flat flock cameras may sometimes be useful in solving a crime, the potential for abuse is far greater than any potential benefit. The Arizona Center for Investigative Reporting has confirmed that some Arizona law enforcement agencies have assisted ICE in accessing flock data. There are no invaluable guarantees that network data will not be shared.

When innocent people are deported to gool logs. When women are being told that they cannot travel across state lines for reproductive health care. When government employees are reassigned or terminated for views contrary to the administration administration, we must object to being surveiled. Most Americans cannot conceive of the reach of authoritarianism. In 1988, I visited a friend living in West Berlin. The wall was still standing. Westward Berlin was beautiful, lively.

East Berlin looked like the imprint of war was still visible. The streets and shells were empty. I traveled alone to Prague and Budapest behind the Iron Curtain. The cities were gloriously beautiful, but very quiet. The atmosphere was dark. I had to register with the police. I was followed by the police. I was photographed by the police. I was shaken down for a bribe. Although as an American I was not in fear personally, the loneliness, the despair was consuming.

Mass surveillance does not provide comfort or safety. It is the wrong direction for Flag Staff and for America. And I would like to say I am very disappointed. Thank you. Police officers could not stay to listen to the public. Richard Kak. Thank you. First, firstly, I want to say I have two high school friends and three family members who are in policing. I know victims of serious crimes and I myself was assaulted a year or so ago.

So, I appreciate the dangerous and sometimes thankless jobs by law uh that are done by law enforcement. My concern here is how easily this technology can grow beyond its best intentions. I'm told sometimes I can offend people when I'm direct. If so, I I apologize at the at the beginning here. It's imperative that people take a look at why this country has the constitution it does and how we are very quickly losing its protections.

As just demonstrated, I believe most people in public service and the public are well-meaning. But most of us who are not evil often cannot see the evil in the world because they don't think that way. 95% of the people are too busy trying to make a living to dig deeply into the darker side of life. That is anyone observing the global movement to surveil, censor, and nudge and other forms of social coercion can see a very anti-democratic movement uh behind the scenes.

Here we are on the heels of the biggest boondoggle and lies in American history which had devastating results and which cool-headed research now is showing will be the greatest country's greatest ever scandal with mass casualties. So how many times are we going to fall for the lies, the bait and switch promises of a better world and that old warn refrain trust us.

Things unlawful or just frowned upon, like government surveillance, are often circumvented by third parties doing the dirty work and then selling it to those evading the laws. They say they aren't doing facial recognition. I find this insulting. Identifying a car is the same thing as following a person. I mean, come on, let's be obvious here. Uh, have you ever uh uh has a car ever been arrested? Do they ever put cars in jail? Are there jails for cars even? like, you know, please don't insult us.

No, with the exception of a stolen vehicle, you are identifying the person in it. And what will happen when in the future a governor or president says they're taking over the system? What if there's another false national emergency? Or, you know, 30 days holding the data, yeah, that'll go out the the window in an instant. And facial recognition, all you need to do is apply an app to the files. Voila, there you go.

And this in an era where the conspiracy theorists are awaiting apologies for having been right. It seems we're having national amnesia all over again. I think people are naive or gullible if you think that this will not morph into a national surveillance grid. If the co debacle taught us anything is best said by the late journalist Izzy Stone.

Quote, "All governments lie, but disaster lies in weight for the countries whose officials smoke the same hashish they give out." I think this is tragic on the eve of this country's 200 annivers 250th anniversary and I wrap up by saying crime has been dropping for the last 33 years well before flock came along. So, thank you Marcus Ford. Good evening, Mayor and City Council.

As you know, China uses surveillance cameras and a central as a central component as of its extensive mass surveillance system. Its justification for this surveillance system is not that it allows for political control, but rather public security and crime prevention. And in fact, Chinese cities are extremely safe. But so are cities in Iceland, Denmark, and Canada, which employ a great deal less surveillance.

The police say, and they are absolutely correct, that these cameras will make their job easier, and in some respects, they'll make all of us safer. But this safety comes at a cost of our freedom to go about our daily lives without being constantly monitored by the state. Our safety is important, but so is our liberty. Currently, we have cameras in our prisons and our detention centers, in our schools and airports and banks and parking lots and stores.

The question before you is in addition to all of this surveillance, whether or not to also surveil us when we drive through town, our town. I see the advantages of installing these cameras, but to my mind, the disadvantages greatly outweigh the advantages. We cannot claim to be free people living in a free country if we're under constant surveillance. In this respect, China is not our role model. I urge you to let the public weigh in on this important matter.

The job of the police is to protect us. Your job is to protect our political freedoms. Those are two different responsibilities. The police are doing their job. You need to do your job. Thank you. Thank you, Robert Budink. Mayor Daget, council members, and fellow citizens. My name is Robert Brun. I live at 2305 North Whispering Pinesway here in the city of Flagstaff. I come to this podium with a great deal of empathy and appreciation for the Flagstaff Police Department.

My remarks are in no way meant to disparage our police. My concern is that the installation of devices such as flock cameras without adequate public discussion puts us on a slippery slope towards acceptance of surveillance to the point we become a surveillance state. A state in which the liberty and privacy of our people is compromised. If we approve these cameras this year, what will be the request next year?

This should not be a matter of convenience, but one of vigilance in protecting the people from intrusive surveillance. My understanding of how these cameras work is that they record license plates and indeed everything on the back of our vehicles without any probable cause. that drivers or passengers in them have broken any law or done anything wrong. This technology would allow the comingings and goings, our comingings and goings to be tracked through our city and potentially beyond.

I regard this as an invasion of my privacy rights. I request that the city council give this matter its most serious attention and take up the issues raised in the citizen petition number 25 20251. I believe that none of us wish to see flag staff end up with a system like those used in China to monitor the daily activities of law-abiding citizens. Now I understand last year you the council approved this flock agreement on a consent agenda.

I assume that there was no discussion about the boundaries or the guard rails or what would who would who the data would be shared with. It was just approved. Now you have an opportunity to look carefully at all of this and make the right decision on behalf of the public and our privacy. Thank you. Thank you, Gary Pearlmutter. Good evening.

I appreciate the opportunity here to speak to the mayor and the council and to all those that are present and I appreciate uh the words and this discussion that's taken place. Um, and what's being discussed is is certainly police policy and there's a role for the city council in terms of discussing police policy. It's in the city charter that the city council consider policy.

They have the responsibilities for creating the policy, the administrative and the practices that is up to each the administrative side of the city uh administration. So, and I appreciate the discussion the chief's chief's recommend uh recognition of the use of technology and uh recognizing the concerns that it brings. Yes, it it brings benefits, but it brings concerns too. We've heard those here today.

You know, technology continues to change and as it becomes more and more capable of tracking our movements, government's learning and potentially can learn more and more about where and what we are doing, not on a day-to-day basis, literally on a minute-to-minute basis conceivably. And there are examples of that being done and happening under the under these surveillance kind of systems.

And ALPR does raise many forth amendment constitutional issues and it's it's quite frankly um in 1979 the US Supreme Court said quote an individual operating or traveling in an automobile does not lose all reasonable expectations of privacy simply because the automobile and its use are subject to government regulation. In other words, traveling on public roads, yes, there you're giving up some of your rights to expect uh to privacy, but you're not giving them all up.

So, I disagree with the gentleman from Flock who said you have a right to travel on the roads and the and they can they can take pictures of you.

That is not what the case law says in terms of uh the constitutional analysis that has been done and there's several cases throughout the country whether it be in state supreme courts and in the US Supreme Court that have discussed that and so you can look at like a warrant is required for tracking putting a tracking device on a car that same analysis applies. warrant for location uh use based on a cell phone requires a warrant.

So I think we need to take a look at the policy and the policy that exists is a nice beginning this the FPD policy but it needs to delve into the issue further needs to look at when the police need to obtain a warrant and that is a responsibility of the city council. So in in some I I think this is important to give a lot of serious consideration to what's going on and welcome. Thank you. Community discussion. Thank you. Next up we have Michael Caukins. Hi, my name is Michael Caukins.

Um thanks so much for your time listening to all of us. Um yeah, like many of my um uh former my fellow community members have spoken of just just a few minutes ago, I also am very concerned about the advancement of this technology and the use of it in our community. Um I have children here. I live and work here. Um I don't want to see anyone get hurt and I'm certainly grateful for um our boys in blue who are protecting us in so many different ways.

However, I think that um um I might share a quick little anecdote here where I think one of my favorite bumper stickers I've seen lately is uh that says um I'm going to forget it of course right now. Um I'm so sorry. Um I'm so sorry. I'm not gonna I'm gonna forget it. Regardless, um I do not wish to see us become any more of a police state than we already are.

I don't wish to be surveiled more um I wish there to be a very robust and thorough discussion of our civil liberties and our civil rights um in the in the context of these advancing technologies. Um and I would hope that we give it a much stronger and much more robust discussion than just this evening. And so, please have another city council.

Please have some more public hearings around this matter because I think I know myself and my my my um other committee members here would love that conversation to go forward. So, please I would ask you to um to please consider that. Thank you. Thank you, Naen Hart. All right. So, I think the flock cameras are great. And if there's any Sigma Kai watching, if you made this a drinking game from every time you heard Constitution or Constitutional, you'd be on to something.

I think it's pretty hypocritical. As I look around, everyone's got their smartphones and their their computers and they're fine probably shopping on Amazon and watching Netflix. They don't mind surveillance when it's it's um when it's convenient for them. But for those of us in the community, a mother with children who are coming home, I uh driving, I want that safety. How do I know there's going to be any justice done?

I do believe there are people who need to We need people to follow the rules. If you're following the rules and you're doing what you need to do, this flock isn't going to affect you. Nobody really cares about what you guys are doing contrary to your self-important beliefs. This is about protecting the community overall. The people that got killed, they matter to someone. Thank goodness that individual who died recently had a chance to have that driver brought to justice.

That is what this is about. And if you don't like surveillance, anywhere in the world there's surveillance. and it is shown to help solve crimes. Does it deter crimes? No. But it does help to solve crimes. One thing I do hope that you will consider, we do need to align ourselves with the federal government. We do need to open up our resources to allow people to share information. We sit between I40 and I17. Somebody's child who is kidnapped, it matters to them.

And if the government asks for your information, why wouldn't we share that information? Contrary to pop popular belief behind me, the government really doesn't care about people as much as they do. But we do care about terrorists. We do care about potential threats to our schools. Gun violence is a real thing. And in our community, one woman responded that we need to share information. There was a woman whose car got hit in a school parking lot. Nobody had information to share.

But if we have better cameras in place, she would have had some kind of closure with her car. If left to their own devices, people will commit crimes and try to get away with it. It's very hard to be accountable when you know that you have a warrant, you have all these other things uh on your plate. So, I need Please consider adding more flock cameras, keeping our community safer. I know in any given day where I live, uh, people speed through stop signs.

It's a matter of time before a child gets hit because they don't watch these things. There was a camera there. Hey, maybe we can talk to that person and say, you need to amend your driving habits. This is protecting us all. Thank you. Thank you, Desiree Perez. Good evening, mayor and council. Uh my name is Desiree Perez. Um I live in Belmont, but for intent, like all intents and purposes, I consider Flagstaff my town. Um uh I am a data and a technology professional.

Uh, I am disheartened by the Flagstaff PD and Flock's presentation to the council and I didn't originally intend to speak until I heard it and felt I needed to speak up. Um, I wish to refocus the conversation on the issues at hand. So, first, Flagstaff PD and the public relations representative from Flock insinuated that uh arguments in opposition to the contract with Flock are not based in fact or in a limited understanding of the technology and data being collected by Flock.

Um, meanwhile, uh, Flagstaff PD and the Flock representatives arguments focused largely on conjecture, fear of violent crime, and hypothetical situations. Second, Flagstaff PD and the representative from Flock talked a lot about the objectivity and the safety of the technology. Um, and as a data practitioner and technologist, it is a fact that data and technology are not objective. Um, rather they contain the inherent biases of the people who create, collect and use them.

uh and worse because technology and data are believed to be inherently objective, they can often be used to perpetuate harm um in a way that uh offers some kind of legitimacy and effectiveness to the way that that harm is done. Third, Flagstaff PD and the representative from Flock uh repeatedly assured council that hot lists uh could not be used against the community's values because any such lists or search criteria uh would have to be approved by a supervisor.

And I have to say that that is of little comfort to a public that is all too familiar with the institutional harms that are perpetuated by police departments across the country and here in our community. Finally, the actual issue at hand is not about the potential uh to uh uh stop violent crime or solve violent crime. Uh it is not about the safety or objectivity of the the technology or the data. Um it is not about the lack of understanding by the community.

Uh but it is actually about the fact that the movements within our hometown within the city that we live in uh can be surveiled, stored and scrutinized by the Flagstaff PD despite the fact that the vast majority of us have not and will not commit violent crime. Uh so please uh I urge you to consider this with with a lot of um care. Thank you. Thank you. We have some online commenters. We have three online commenters. The first online commenter is Kevin McCoy.

Kevin, you can now go ahead and address council. Staff President, I share many of the concerns expressed tonight by our community regarding the flock surveillance cameras. Um, we're just going to start with a couple objective facts because the police department and the flock representative wanted to talk about objective facts. It is an objective fact that Flock Security has spent $460,000 this year on lobbying efforts alone.

Uh any company that spends that kind of money trying to persuade and change constitutional rights and legislation should be a red flag for a progressive community such as our own. Um it is also an objective flack that objective fact that in Aurora, Colorado, police held a mother and four children at gunpoint after a similar license plate reader tower misidentified, leaving the city to pay the family a 1.9 million settlement.

This is what happens when automation meets adrenaline and guardrails fail. Taxpayers pay, families are traumatized, and trust is shattered in our small community. Closer to home in the Mountain West, a flock alert in Espanola, New Mexico misread a two as a seven and a 12year-old ended up in handcuffs during a gunsdrawn stop before officers realized the mistake. If it can happen there, it can truly happen anywhere.

And when we speak of anywhere, I do find it surprising that we're having this conversation in Flagstaff, Arizona right now when similar communities such as Austin and Sedona have already gotten rid of their flock contracts for these very reasons because of the jeopardies that it poses to our constitutional rights, because of the way it doesn't align with our city's values of the people that live here.

It's just challenging to think that our Flagstaff Police Department wants to add 32 of these cameras in addition to what they already have to the community and say that it isn't some form of GPS tracking. When you have a camera positioned all over the city, you've created a entire web of information making it impossible for any citizen in this town to move freely and privately without being monitored and surveiled.

the level of surveillance that many courts are still to this day considering to be an invasion of our constitutional fourth amendment.

So what I would ask of our community is that you know when we look at this matter and we see something that looks eerily familiar to the FMC incident from two years ago where almost every single speaker tonight except for one from the public has been adamantly against this and highly concerned about what it's going to do that we do make sure to table this that we stop the contract we have in place and we let the community have a voice and make a decision on what happens with our privacy.

Regarding privacy, I'll leave on one note from one of our founding fathers, Mr. Benjamin Franklin, that those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Our next commenter is Travis Smith. Travis, you may go ahead and address council. Travis, you're still muted. Okay. Thanks for uh sorry about that.

Council mayor, um we've heard a lot of great feedback from the community tonight and primarily most of the people who spoke were against uh imposing these flot camera systems in this community. And I did find it kind of curious how the uh two police officers who spoke so highly of these flock systems just cur you know left the meeting as the lady said before everybody uh got to speak. So anyways they serve the community they should hear the community's concerns.

Um, clearly there's a lot of Fourth Amendment violation issues with this technology and I want to just caution the city and the council that you guys might be opening yourselves up to a lot of lawsuits if this technology is used wrong or if it is um, you know, wrongfully just like in Aurora, Colorado, if it wrongfully uh, identifies somebody and you you got a lawsuit, you know, $1.9 million that family won for being forced on the pavement at gunpoint.

So, you know, you really should pause on this and think about this because where does this big data end? This is exactly what flock is. It's big data. It's huge collection of all of our data and sharing it with who knows who. Uh couple commenters brought up the potential for hacking. I agree. All these companies get hacked all the time. Your user data, your login, your everything gets hacked. So, what makes these flock cameras so so different?

Why wouldn't these be used uh to target an individual? What if uh bad people are targeting, you know, people with this? So, anyways, there's a lot of concerns that should be addressed before you just blindly implement this and I would follow suit with some of the other cities who have taken this down and dismantled it. Yes, I can see it being a convenience for the law enforcement, but again, it uh it opens you up to quite a bit of law lawsuits potential and jurisdictional issues.

And who's to say that these flock camera systems once the uh the usefulness is proven, who's to say flock camera systems won't substantially increase their rates and hold you hostage for the data now that you're addicted to, for lack of better words. Now you're going to pay more for it. Um, you know, again, this is a multi-billion dollar industry collecting our data. There's hardly any oversight.

our data is spread out throughout the world and uh it it shouldn't be so freely accessible to anybody and everybody that wants this data and I also strongly believe that the federal government will have access to this data whenever and however they want to have it. So um again 32 cameras in the city you guys think that's a limited uh roll out. I mean 32 cameras in a town of 100,000 people and just again uh make no doubt about it the federal government will have access to all these cameras.

So I strongly encourage you to listen to all the uh opposing views on this. Thank you. Thank you. And I just want to clarify for anyone who's watching from home, um it's been stated a couple of times and both the chief of police and the deputy chief are sitting in the audience hearing um all of the comments. We have another commenter. Our last commenter is Celia. Celia, you may go ahead and address council. Celia, you're still on mute. Sorry about that. Can you hear me now? Yes. Okay.

Good evening, Mayor and Council. Thank you very much for this opportunity to comment on this important agenda item. I urge you to move the citizen petition forward and place an item on the council agenda as soon as possible to discuss the cancellation of the flock surveillance camera contract. This is the specific request in the citizen petition.

These are unprecedented times that require the public to be able to express its concerns to you about the decision that council made in June of 2024, at which time there was no public comment because the contract approval was part of the consent agenda. Excuse me. Although it is still remains unclear to me, I do think the contract has been renewed because there is an automatic renewal provision in the contract.

But at the same time, there is a provision that says the contract can be cancelled at any time. Further, if the council moves the petition forward, I would urge it in the interest of transparency to please make available to the public G police policy 317 and allus and any other agreements with other agencies on the subject of data sharing. So, in conclusion, I ask that you agendaize the block contract for a full discussion as soon as possible.

And in the event that doesn't happen, I urge you to deny the First Amendment to the contract. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So, that is all of the public comment. All right. So what we're going to do now council typically with a petition what happens is um if there are four members who want to move the petition for three members who want to move the petition forward they give a thumbs up. Um tonight we have some special circumstances so we're still going to hold to that.

We're we're not um going to have a conversation about the petition tonight. Our decision is whether to move it forward to a future agenda where the public can come and give comment again and council will then weigh in on what they think about the petition. So, um, council, I am going to, um, ask for your, um, whether you'd like to move the petition forward and any comment that you would like to make about moving it forward or not, Madame Mayor. Yes. Um, please go ahead. Uh, thank you so much.

Um, this is council member Garcia. I just wanted to um to clarify, are we going to have a chance to ask the chief questions um about the public comment after this? Madame Mayor, you can do that now or after. Either one. You have questions specifically for the chief? I had I had a few and then I also had a recommendation for up thumbs up or thumbs down and and and also um a bit of a proposal uh for that. But if it's up to you, you know, it's obviously up to you on it on the procedure.

I just wanted to check in with you and see if you wanted to do that in separately or all at once. Let's go ahead and take your question. And um it looks like Council Member Matthews also has a question. Did you have a question, Council Member House? No, I had comment and I did just want to clarify. I thought we had said that the process would be um discussion and then direction on this or was I mistaken? No, there's no discussion on the petition. Correct.

But since we were taking them both together, I thought we were going to be able to comment. So, so if I can clarify, I think making comment versus having discussion is the the distinguishing factor here.

Um, if if uh as the mayor called for, if anyone wants to speak for moving it forward or not moving it forward, I'm talking about the petition, um, they can make a comment as to why they want to move it forward or not move it forward, but not necessarily have a back and forth discussion about that comment. Does that help? some somewhat. Okay.

I think I'm a little lost in what we discussed in terms of when we'd be able to say anything on like the overall conversation but you you you can make a comment on the overall conversation. Yes, Council Member Garcia, go ahead. Thank you. Um, uh, Chief, I do have a couple of questions, um, related to some of the statements that were made in public comment.

So, one of, uh, our public commenters mentioned that the contract auto renews automatically and they were worried that it had already happened. My question is, has it already happened? And if not, u, would you be amendable to asking? I guess it's not it's not up to you to answer that question, but has it already autorenewed? And if not, do we have the potential to have this discussion before we renew?

Uh, mayor, members of council, council member Garcia, I'm going to bring Patrick up to have a conversation about the contract related to your question. Great question. Thank you, Chief. And I I I have a f a few follow-up questions after that, but thank you. We can tag you. uh mayor, vice mayor, uh councel, Patrick Brown, your purchasing director.

So, the underlying contract auto renews with the cooperative contract, but the renewal doesn't happen until we come into an agreement with Flock for this next year renewal. If we don't come to an agreement and there's no the amendment doesn't get approved, then there's no next year Flock services. So this amendment is what takes us through that renewal. The underlying contract itself is is good through 2027, but that's only if both sides agree to renew. Thank you for that clarification.

Chief, I wanted to follow up quickly with the question so we don't uh so I don't waste the uh public's time. Um, we heard that eventually the federal government is going to get their hands on this technology and and extract our our our data. Um, I I I'm pretty sure I heard you say something to the contrary to that and if you can briefly just speak to that. Um, we talk and I'm going to follow it with a little comment.

We talk about conspiracy theories and I think that same commenter was mentioning conspiracy theories, but I'm wondering if what they asked about the or what they mentioned about the federal government extracting our data isn't a conspiracy theory in itself.

Mayor, members of council, council member Garcia, um I'm not going to hypothesize about um conspiracy theories, but I with an abundance of understanding, I clearly understand our community's concern about access um by the federal government and the federal administration currently related to this data.

As you heard from um Trevor and I'm telling you here today um I have a moral and ethical red line in this career as your police chief and um Flock uh has told you that at this time they have no intention um with their business model to share that data and that the data that we get the plate and the vehicle data that we get here is ours. Um, and I have no intention of sharing that data um, with the federal government. Thank you so much, Chief.

Um, would I don't know how to ask this one necessarily, so maybe I'll just skip it for now. Um, but it has to do with uh, the community policing element, and I guess it's more of a comment from me. Over the past 20 years of me participating in city council meetings, mostly as an a public participant like those who spoke today, I have seen the evolution of the police department through all the chiefs reach a deeper and greater level of community policing.

Do I see the flock cameras as they are currently used as a tool to help actually enrich community policing? Yes, I do. Because what that means to me is now we don't need to pe put eyes on every corner just staring waiting for a call that says we need to find this car and then people are just sitting there hoping that they can capture the car that's passing by. We could use those individuals inside the community um you know actually getting to know the community and the needs of the community.

But that's just a um a a perception that I have achieved over my time here and I wanted to offer that that to the community. But I'm still learning about this too from the community and from the department and from the technology itself. So with that I would like to make a proposal that to for my colleagues to consider that we have um a a a platform for us to learn from each other on this issue both sides of it.

um prior to if we do forward the citizens petition u which means maybe a town hall style meeting where we can all learn from each other. If we if any side of this goes into it blindly we're not going we could have 10 community meetings and nothing is going to come of it.

I think this is a great opportunity for all of us as a community to come together and learn if this proposal goes on with a town hall meeting and then of course the however the citizens petition um pans out as far as coming back to council. That's just my proposal. Thank you Chief. And we have I'm I'm moving down to questions. And actually, um Council Member House, go ahead. you have a question. Sorry.

Um, Chief, uh, one of the things that you said during the, uh, your part of the presentation was that you would be willing to have a tech advisory board. Um, and so I think a lot of what we've heard tonight speaks to the fact that um, obviously trust and transparency are very important to our community. Knowing what the scope of this sort of program is is very important to our community.

So whether we move the petition forward or whether we delay on the amendment or whatever that decision is, uh, Can you speak more to your willingness to do that? And is that a um just tell us more about what you're willing to do in terms of that? Mayor, members of council, council member house, I can't tell you how much I appreciate the thoughtful question.

Um, since my arrival to this wonderful community just a little over a year ago, one of the first things we collectively realized is the the manner in which policy is born, changed, modified, evolved needed improvement. So, one of the first things we did is created a policy for the policy. And so uh as part of that uh I am incredibly familiar with and am committed to ensuring that um this is the people's policy.

Um and so within those advisory boards um that provide me with meaningful community context and communication, I am more than open to having a conversation about a police chief's technical advisory board where upstream as more technology is being imposed upon law enforcement and all organizations in government to to be more precise and accurate, which is tied to council member Garcia's conversation in community policing, which I can allude to in a little bit. But absolutely, absolutely.

I think it'd be a wonderful idea to be able to bring together people to have thoughtful uh conversations about how we move forward collectively as a community on technology as it relates to council member Garcia's conversation about um community policing. having been involved in policing for more than 32 years and watched the evolution of community policing eb and flow and at sometimes fail. I want to be completely honest on that.

There were times in policing in America where police chiefs and police departments um imposed their will upon communities by casting broad nets into the community under the umbrella of crime reduction. And um I think as we move forward there is the opportunity with thoughtful discussion and precision policing to to identify ways and means in which we don't c cast that broad net. We don't generalize to entire communities that are sometimes dealing with challenges of crime and disorder.

And so the example of um not stopping after um a a shooting every red F-150 and what does that look like and feel like for community as we move forward I think are very poignant conversations that we should all have. Um because on the flip side of liability, um if I'm not precision in that, we can have the same liability conversation about stopping somebody um just because they have an F-150 that's in the area of a shooting with precision policing, community input, and thoughtfulness.

I think we can reach some common ground on what we want to do to make sure that we're safe. Is that it, Council Member House? Sterling. Thank you, Mayor, mayor and council and and public. I' I'd like to kind of just back up from the 30,000 foot level and talk about the fair process just a little bit in the context of council member Garcia's proposal.

Um, the fair process has evolved over the years as a method for getting items in front of the council and having the public, you know, aware of that. Citizens petitions are are put on the council agendas as fairs as well. Just so everybody knows that when a fair comes forward, the question is simple. Are there three council members that support moving that fair forward?

Um, getting into a discussion of what that would look like, be it a town hall or a work session or a regular council meeting, that would really be discussion for later among staff and how they're going to bring that back to you. It's just we just need direction on the fair or the citizen petition. That said, this portion about having a discussion. I I worry and I'm I'm counseling you seal as a council cil sorry um not to go back and forth on that that proposal from council member Garcia tonight.

Let's figure that out later. Tonight we just need to know whether or not you want to move the item forward or you want to move forward with the amendment. and you can make a statement um in you know explaining that yes I want to move it forward or no I don't want to move it forward. I hope that adds some clarity. Maybe I just muddied the waters even more. Thank you Sterling. So we have a couple more questions and then I'll go back through to comments.

So we have a question from Council Member Matthews. Thank you Mayor. Um I am going to try to separate my questions from my comments. Um I would like to um you know I I heard a lot from the community. It's clear that we all seemingly have some misconceptions of what the flock cameras do and what are at risk. Um, I heard some comments about fourth amendment issues and targeting individuals versus license plate scanning.

Um, and uh, one of the commenters made a comment about uh, concerns about the cameras at the Home Depot. Um and so um I would like to ask um someone from law enforcement or our legal team to address those as well as um there was another comment about um our contract and what we um allow to be shared.

I just heard a lot of of questions and fear and speculation because there's a lot of information that is not out there in our community and I think we clearly owe it to our community to be transparent but to also inform them on the information. So, a lot of this um concerns that are just based on fear because we don't know um we don't know what is out there um we're building on that fear.

And so if whoever wants to address those um comments about again Fourth Amendment um targeting individuals not license plates um Home Depot cameras and um what was the other one? Um there was one other I'll go back to it and and bring it up. Um, I think that would help just the community um get a better picture of what we're talking about.

And then I I'll save my comments for later, but if they could just address those concerns to our communities so that um we can we can either put to rest some concerns or to highlight concerns that are um legitimate concerns. That would be really great. Mayor, members of council, council member Matthews, thank you. And and I want to clarify two things. Um, we have no cameras at Home Depot. Um, I don't know where that misinformation is coming from, whose cameras those are.

I do know, and the flock representative may be able to speak to this. Um, there are corporations that are seeking due to due to crime on their properties, their private properties, uh, to develop some sort of a system, but at this time, we do not have any at Home Depot. So, I just want to be clear on that. The other thing I heard tonight was the conversation about this is being an expansion of the 32 cameras. Um that is not that is not accurate.

Also, this is not us an expansion of the 32 cameras. This is us just sustaining what we currently have. I'll have Maryanne Sullivan um our legal adviser speak to more of the conversation rooted in the Fourth Amendment. Mayor, Council, um, Vice Mayor, Council Member Matthews. So, to your point, um, we there has been a number of of comments this evening that do discuss, um, the Fourth Amendment, um, without getting into any specific legal advice.

Um, what I can say in terms of rights to privacy, um, that there is case law that discusses, um, rights to privacy in the realm of tracking people's movements. Um there is case law that discusses specifically automatic license plate reader technology. Um and to the at this date and time there is no case that has specifically said that um license plate reader technology um interferes with people's privacy rights or expectation of privacy to the point that a warrant is required.

And so that in general is the state of the law at this point. Um there are any more specific questions to that then we can um retire into executive session to provide more specific legal advice.

So Maryanne to add to that and um I don't want to go into executive session but um there was also I found it on my notes um concerns about um future government mandating obtaining information Um, can you talk about just in the open public forum, um, if that were to come about what our options would be, could we just opt out of just turning off our cameras, not sharing or can you speak on that at all?

Um, currently as as it stands, the data that we collect is the, you know, the city's data, the Flagstaff Police Department's data, and it is the choice um of who to share with and who to not share with. We do not currently share any of that data with any federal agencies. Um we do have in our policy um very specifically in sections uh 317.5 and 317.8 that at no time is the technology to be used for any immigration investigations or immigration enforcement.

So that is specifically within the policy itself. Um if as some people have speculated there would be a change in the federal government demanding access um to this, we do have a provision within the contract that we can cancel with proper notice at any time. Um and so if there is something that would compel us, then that would be an option to be able to cancel and no longer have the program if we would be mandated to share with the federal government. Thank you, mayor.

The rest of my um time I want to use as comments, so I will yield it back to you until that time. Okay. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Thank you. I do have comments, but I'll save those. I have a couple of clarifying questions. Um, how does the department track false positives or misidentifications within the flock system?

Mayor, members of council, vice mayor, suite, I'll have Colin maybe come down and have a conversation with that in those audits or at a time when if we were to receive a false positive or a plate that wasn't clearly read and maybe I heard a conversation interpreted as a two versus a seven, there's automatic debriefing and feedback provided with flock about the air. that occur. But Colin, do you want to speak a little bit more to that?

Yeah, I think where that possibility could come would be maybe an agency from outside of Flagstaff didn't remove the vehicle as stolen. So when we enter a vehicle is stolen, when we locate it, we have to remove it. So if say an agency didn't remove it and then we contact it, you know, we have to do some investigation before we just stop it and potentially, you know, use force or threaten the use of force.

So just because we get a a flock alert or an ALPR alert, we have to verify what we're seeing before we go ahead and take enforcement action because yeah, it's possible that the the camera could read a two as is a different digit and then once we look at it, okay, then we have to make a determination. Now, if we make a mistake and we pull the car over and it was actually the wrong number, then that has to be documented in a police report and it's stored in our archives. Thank you.

And I do have one other question. Can you touch on the concerns that were brought forward regarding the block system being hacked? Uh I am unaware of of hacking, but if I was a hacker and I hacked the system, I'm going to have a bunch of pictures of the rear ends of people's cars and license plates. Um I think we have someone coming up that might touch on Thank you. Uh, mayor, council, thank you for that question. I can tell you that we have not been hacked.

Uh, our contract does mandate if anything like that does happen, we are obligated to, uh, notify customers under multiple state and federal legal processes. Uh, the other thing I will say is, uh, the encryption that we have, um, is the same level and the the cloud that we use is the same as many municipal governments. Uh, and so we have if not higher uh than what most cities use.

And so um as the chief mentioned um you know the the data that's held in this building with social security numbers and um deeds and registars uh it's very it's very possible that the security safeguards that we're continually innovating on for this data is actually stronger than that despite it having absolutely no personally identifiable information in it. So we take it very seriously. We're continually innovating.

We're not um we're not going to be lazy uh because we haven't had that instant yet. Uh we're continually working to find the highest levels of encryption to make sure that doesn't happen. Thank you, Mayor, members of council and and vice mayor. I also want to add, you know, I heard conversation from community and I I I truly support what they said related to making sure we interweave humanness into these technical systems.

Um, and so you heard a little bit about the verification that has to happen if that plate was wrong. Oh, that's not a Ford F-150 because the plates's wrong. It's actually a Chevy Camaro. And so I think having that in place that that goes on in a daily basis when we are provided sometimes information that is not accurate from an eyewitness.

And so we take that due diligence to make sure of interweaving the humanness of the investigation to ensure that you know, okay, we're going to make sure that that act that information is accurate before we stop that vehicle or sometimes we stop that vehicle and then realize, oh, they gave us under the pressure of the the incident a different plate. And so I hope that answered your question. It did. Thank you. All right. So that's all the questions that I see.

So, I'm going to move back through the comments and I just want to thank my colleagues for asking um all of the questions that I had. So, um Council Member Garcia, did you have um a comment that you wanted to make specific to the petition? Um no, I didn't actually. the um since the Sterling stepped in and led us with some direction on what my proposal was um then I'm I'm I'm I'm fine with that advice and um that's that's really it. So, um Council Member Alen, thank you, Madame Mayor.

Um really looking forward to the opportunity to share some reflections. Uh, I just want to thank our police chief and our leadership team at the police department again. Um, and I want to thank the public for coming out here and expressing your concerns. I love it when we're able to have this back and forth discourse and uh, I don't know about a town hall.

I think we're having a pretty nice conversation this evening and it is long overdue and it's something we should have given more diligence to earlier even though I think the landscape has changed under our feet a lot and it's a lot more obvious now. I'm constantly asked in this role uh to do what I can to protect our most vulnerable residents and to make our community feel safe and inviting and livable for them.

And what I understand is that we're not in a position as a municipality to break the law. So we have to follow state and federal law enforcement regulations. And while we're not going to offer information, if it's requested of us, we're not able to resist. I've been on council for seven years and that has been my assessment all along.

I've sat through countless meetings with three different police chiefs with newer and newer council members and my understanding on this point has remained pretty solid. In light of those unfortunate constraints, I am immensely heartened that we have a responsible community oriented police department that has internalized the values we as a council want to uphold. The Flagstaff Police Department has an exemplary culture of respect and high performance today.

from the beat cops all the way up to the top and especially at the top where we have some influence on ensuring that leadership understands council's community concerns. I trust the intentions of our organization and its commitment to victims. This is in stark contrast to the way things are shaping up at the federal level, unfortunately, in a way that has never been worse in modern times.

And so now here we are confronted with the decision to further fund and fully implement a surveillance system that is designed and engineered to quickly and effortlessly be integrated between agencies. It's in the name. It's called Flock. And we're being assured that we don't have to share information if we don't want to. I believe that our police department just wants the best tools available to effectively do their job.

To be clear, and I'll say this several times, um, our new police chief was hired in part thanks to his vision and commitment to modernizing our police force. Chief Connelly and his team are only doing their job, the job we're tasking them with. I have no issues with our internal department policies and procedures and practices with regards to these tools, but I can't avoid returning to the question looming over this whole discourse. Which is it?

Is it while we're not going to offer information, if it's requested, we're not able to resist? Or is it we don't have to share information if we don't want to? As I've done all along in my two terms, I have an obligation to more favorably weight the less risky approach in my decision-making. Clearly, the more prudent assumption here is that we'll comply with requests if information is asked of us. And that's what I've understood to be the case since I arrived on council in 2018.

So the bottom line for me, even though I recognize that our department has the very best of intentions, our community is scared, they are very unsettled, that fear and distrust is not originating from the actions of our department and leadership, but from outside and higher up, and that fear and concern are justified. So, is this right moment in time for us to be ramping up our surveillance technologies? Unfortunately, I don't think it is.

And does this have anything to do with our local police department? Please hear me. I don't think it does. I'm not worried about the way things work. I'm very concerned about what's coming next. I mean, I'm a published science fiction author for my day job, so maybe I'm a hammer just seeing nails everywhere.

But I think we're suffering from a lack of appropriate imagination if we're not hyper alert to how this tech could suddenly be abused and mass without a moment's notice with an executive order. For example, elections have consequences, folks. This isn't about my police department. It's about how the world around us has been changed. Let's be blunt for a split second.

If minimally trained ICE recruits weren't running around the country in masks picking up brown people because they're brown, then I'd absolutely default to my earlier attitude towards this useful technology. Recently, investigative reporting revealed that a sheriff's office in Texas searched data for more than 83,000 automated license plates uh cameras to track down a woman suspected of self-managing an abortion.

If anyone is to be blamed for the loss of the opportunity to take advantage of the positive outcomes of this technology, the finger shouldn't be pointed at local council members from all over the state and communities far and wide who are expressing concerns. It needs to be directed at the malignancy infecting our nation at other levels of governance. And we need to recognize that policing is only effective in any capacity.

And our chief says this all the time in so far as the population being policed feels safe and valued. Amending this contract works against that higher aspiration and in my opinion at this point. As a nation, we've always debated the tension between safety and privacy. It's a healthy and justifiable tugof-war. Uh for example, Arizona recently had speeding cameras all over the state. You guys remember that? Um we don't anymore.

Our attitudes and appetite to be generally tracked and surveiled in the service of public safety is constantly evolving. So, there are many things on council we or I would love to champion or do, but we're simply not allowed to. Council, this is something that we can do. I'm not going to be up here and take up the seat and then stand aside when I get those chances to govern on our own terms. The world around us is not the same as it was in 2024.

And that's why I'm seriously considering voting to deny the amendment to the contract and council. I urge you all to join me. So just as a reminder, we're discussing the petition specifically and based on where we go with the petition, then we'll discuss the um contract. So I can address that very briefly. What I want is is to make sure that the contract um is stopped. And if we get rid of the the citizen petition, which I do have problems with.

I think it's I I think there's some problematic wording in that petition. Um but I will move that forward uh to ensure that we are able to have that conversation in the event that and I don't know where council is on this. I'm very um interested in how the conversation unfolds. Um but if we were to later talk discuss the contract and decide to keep it, I want to make sure we have that uh that fair item available to us. Council member House. Thank you, Mayor.

Um, as I said earlier, um I I know that this is a community that values trust and transparency. Those are core values of our community. And I would venture to guess that many in this community are asking the questions about uh, flock and license plate readers um, and how and why it was adopted in Flagstaff. those questions are centering around those values. Um I believe and take our police department at its word when it says uh its intentions with these programs.

I believe and trust them when they say how useful they have been in our community. Um, I also know that this is a conversation that is not just Flagstaff's conversation. It is a state or it's becoming a statewide conversation and it's becoming a national conversation. Um, not just because of this technology itself, but also because of actions that are being taken at higher levels than we have any control over.

Um which leads to uh the important questions that we have to ask before um taking on an amendment to a contract um that we have to question and we have to engage with. Um, for that reason, I would also support um, again, I I am similar to Council Member Alen in that I have major challenges with the language of the uh, petition that was presented.

Um, but the primary uh thing that I really want to advance is the conversation about not making the city of Flagstaff a mass surveillance surveillance I can't say that word. You know what I mean? Uh, state. And um I don't know that I go so far as to calling for the cancellation of this contract, but I do believe that the conversation needs to be had. Um, and so that's why I would support uh moving this forward. Thank you, Council Member Matthews. Thank you, Mayor.

Um again um so many um comments on social media uh emails we've received and comments tonight um just present itself that there's a lot of confusion and misinformation um out there things that I have questioned myself and I have learned through questioning um the questions that were presented. Um, and so I, you know, transparency, I think we all, um, are, you know, want to make sure that we are very transparent and that our community understands, um, the factual information that's out there.

And listening to some of the comments tonight, there's still a lot of, uh, misinformation and confusion. Um, and I think that that deserves a further conversation that we owe it to our community members to um give them the information that they desire so they can be more informed in um their conclusions and not in speculation. Um I you know I I read in some of the post and some of the questions about Sedona um they did not cancel their contract.

They put it on pause for I'm assuming the same reasons that we are discussing this tonight that we were seeking more information. Um yes I've read the articles about the violations in the mis misuse of surveillance. I think that that um is unavoidable but can be controlled with um proper procedures and um proper um guard rails in place. Um I also think about our personal information already captured through Face ID and Tik Tok and fingerprint ID and everything else.

Um and so I'm not I don't know. um where license plate scanning um takes it to a different level because our society is has already gone in a direction where we have we've given up a lot of our uh private information. Um and so I think that's a another great conversation to have to figure out where that line is drawn.

Um, I watch a lot of police TV um for entertainment and I see the benefit of uh tracking just our phone usage in how they have been able to solve crimes and um um identify uh the people that are behind some of the most heinous crimes just based on their their phone usage. And so, you know, I think about that versus scanning a um a license plate. And I'm I'm maybe I I'm not completely um educated on how that's going to be different.

Um because we've already given up a lot of our information uh out of convenience. Um, and so I don't want to I don't want to um make a decision that will take away, you know, uh I'm I'm fairly involved in the missing um and and murdered indigenous people um up in northern Arizona and other places and and the crimes that we've had in our city.

And I want to make sure that we don't um we don't make a decision that could um continue that um you know that frustration of not being able to solve some of these really um heartfelt crimes because of incorrect information. Um, I also look at the petition. Um, as um, other council members have commented, there's a lot of flaws there. Um, it it there's a lot of things that it states and so it's hard to just make a direction.

So, I do think that we owe it to our community to um just really answer all the questions, re-educate us on the things that we have been misguided on, um answer questions that maybe have not been um addressed to make sure that we're all making informed decisions. And so, I think a further conversation needs to be had. I'm not one to We've had this flock uh contract since last June. Um and I haven't heard of any major violations.

Sure, there's going to be um you know potential for issues, but um right now where I am is that I'd like to have a more robust conversation so our community feels comfortable in the information and not running with some of the uh false information that's out there or just lack of information that's out there. But um I am supportive of the conversation, but it seems like we should pause it for right now.

Um just to give our community time to feel really comfortable with what's going on out there because there is a lot of potential for risk and u mismanagement. And I think that um we all owe it to our community to just re-evaluate and get all these questions answered and then move forward from there. Okay, Council Member Spence, do you have a comment about whether you'd like to move the petition forward? Thank you, Mayor.

Uh, I am thumbs up on uh moving the fair request on this petition for future discussion and a broader uh community involvement. So, I'm I'm thumbs up and uh I'll leave it at that. Thank you, Council Member Garcia. Um, yeah, I uh I am in favor of um having a a deeper conversation. I I do have concerns about the wording of of the contract. As everyone else has stated, I I I wish it was a little bit more broad. Um, forgive me.

Uh, as I was sitting here taking part in the meeting, we just had five big gunshots less than a block from my house right here. So, I was just got off the phone with 911. Um, so there's definitely a a need for um for, you know, help in every way that we can with our police department. Um that being said, I am a thumbs up for um adding to the convers or having a future conversation about this and um and and learning from each other as much as we can. Thank you.

I too am a thumbs up for moving the petition forward and having a broader discussion. Um so we have enough to move it forward. And I just want to make sure that the public knows that anytime there's any item on a consent agenda, if you have a question about it, you can submit a comment card and we'll pull that item and you can ask your question or you can make your comment about it. Um so that is that and we will schedule another meeting to discuss the um petition.

Now the next thing is and I'm going to actually recommend because if we're going to discuss the petition further because we want to have this broader discussion about the contract I think that we should move to um postpone the discussion of the contract. So um anyone who agrees with that I would need a motion to that effect. Um, and if you don't agree with it, um, then make a motion to that effect. Mayor, I just have a question on that.

Do we need to postpone to a date certain or is it just a postponement? Yeah, this is not a public hearing, so just a postponement in general. Thank you, Sterling. U then I would like to move to postpone the action on the contract amendment. I'll second. Is there any discussion? Further discussion? Council member Spence.

I um I would vote against that motion because I favor uh extending the contract with the firm understanding that we can cancel the contract at any future time that the council uh wishes to to to cancel it. And I I look at this um system of license plate readers as a tool that our police department is currently uh using effectively. And the broader question as to whether we're um inch by inch getting into a surveillance state is uh a conversation that we're going to have going forward.

So, I favor um uh renewing the amendment at this time knowing we can cancel it if that's our decision. Thank you. Any other discussion? So, we have a motion and a second on the table. So, we'll vote on that and then if that doesn't pass, you could make a motion to the effect of what you just said. So, no additional discussion. All those in favor? I I. Any opposed? Opposed. Okay.

So, we have postponed um a discussion about the amendment um and we have forwarded the petition for additional conversation. And thank you all so much for the time that you spent um um coming up with your comments and coming to speak to us um as well as the presentation from our police department. Just thank you for um all of the time and effort put into this. All right. So, we have um open call to the public.

I'm going to give everyone just a minute to leave so that we can give our full attention. You just you just had Q. Can we shut those doors? Naen Hart. All right, little change of pace. Um, in June of this last year, I was riding my bicycle through the intersection of Forest and Beaver. I had a green light and so I proceeded through and all of a sudden I was knocked spinning um over my bike by a red truck. It wasn't a Ford 150, but it was a big one-tonon Dodge. I knocked the passenger side off.

I put a dent in her vehicle. She did not stop. But there were four witnesses there that day that came to see if I was okay. I'm a tough cookie. I made it. Um the thing is, um through all of this, I wish there was block or something, but we did have a video and she did admit to running the stoplight. Uh with the four witnesses, she was charged.

But upon discussing that intersection with the man couple who erected their own video cameras for their own safety of the lights, they said they have spoken and called and tried to do the best they can. One of my best friends had had an accident in her vehicle. It almost got totaled by a child trying to go to Flagstaff High School for a test. Again, the lights in that intersection are so wonky and they change so quickly. It's there's a lot of accidents.

I did inquire as if I if I could get a number of accidents specifically there by the police department, but I didn't I have a passion for these things, but I just didn't get those figures. So, I'd like to ask council to please consider um taking a second look at that intersection. I know my son walks there to use the city buses now to get to Cookanino High School. I see a lot of children using our buses now that FUSD does not have transportation. I see more cyclists.

I've seen babies and strollers and we do have a lot of visitors to our beautiful city and some of those Airbnbs over there. Just for the sake of staff that are also using this intersection, could we revisit those lights and try to make that a little safer for our community? I mean, lucky for me, there were six ambulance on scene to take me to the ER for a checkup, but I don't think that we need to put people in our community through that, right, Austin?

So, thank you so much and I appreciate you guys this evening. You're amazing. We're glad to I'm glad that your leadership. Thank you. So, staff, you'll look into that. Thank you very much. Yes. All right. Any other um public comments? No. Okay. So, we're moving on to item number 13,formational items to from mayor, council, and staff and future agenda item requests. Um let's start online with council member Matthews. Thank you, Mayor. I don't have anything at this time. Council member Garcia.

Thank you, Madame Mayor. I was uh I've been recently interested in um the historical preservation of our of our town and and uh and visiting some of the commission meetings has taught me that I um need a need to learn a lot more about um historical preservation in Flagstaff.

I don't think this needs to be a fair item, but I'm hoping that the staff hears me in in wanting to have u maybe a work session that brings forth, you know, how historic preservation is is done, what our log of of historic buildings are, how we are achieving, you know, putting more into that log, um what our staff makeup looks like, questions that surround um how we can keep the history preserved in Flagstaff and how our historical preservation commission works as a governing body outside of the city council is um stuff that me as a new council person would sure love to learn more about um or even more than I already know.

Thank you. Thank you, council member. We'll get we'll get something on the agenda. Council member Alen. Yeah, two things. I'll try to be brief here. Um, I wanted to just state publicly uh how excited I am about the BPPR process that uh the BPPA process that was uh kicked off introduced last week. I didn't have any public comments during that meeting. Um I was remote. Uh but I just wanted to express my enthusiasm for that. I'm glad we're launching that process.

I think it's going to be a really great thing to explore and I know we're on boarding partners and negotiating an IG. So don't want to have too much more to say about it at this point. Um but I'm hopeful that that's going to work out at some level and I want to be involved in the process to to bring those partners in and um just be as helpful as I can with that. The other thing this I guess this is a fair um it's it's really just a request for looking at the viability of something.

Um, I don't know if we can do this, uh, but I would like to explore the possibility of using our council initiative fund for a modest amount if we're able to, uh, to contribute to the GoFundMe site of Venito Vargas's, uh, family who, um, are looking for help with funeral. Uh, and we can talk more offline about the specifics of that uh, as we as we explore whether or not that's even an option. Vice Mayor, thank you.

Um, I wanted to thank my colleagues and the police chief and his team and to everyone who showed up tonight with public comment. Um, this was a tough discussion for me and the vote happened and I'm very supportive of how we went. And I didn't comment because I think it really hit home. I've been in two incidents this year where cameras were needed to help solve um things that happened to me personally. So, it's a lot for me to take in.

I'm so glad that we had the discussion tonight and very thankful that we are going to have a future discussion to dive deeper into how we value and trust transparency, our police force, each other, our community, our well-being. Um, you know, I am a product of of the cameras working. It doesn't mean that I don't think we should have the conversation we need to.

And if I could go back in time to June 18th, I would have pulled this off the consent agenda and we would have had it back then, but I didn't. And so I'm I'm very thankful that we have the opportunity to continue it. And I just really appreciate everyone tonight and police chief.

Um, I just want you to know that I personally do trust your actions and I believe in our police force and I believe in this community and I think we can have this conversation and be honest with one another and get to a good solution. Thank you, Council Member House. Nothing for me tonight. Thank you, Mayor. Council member Spence, nothing for me. Nothing for me. City manager, nothing. Okay, we're adjourned.