Phoenix Heritage Preservation Commission Approves Grant, Schedules Emergency Action on Babbott House Demolition

Today is the 20 That's loud. The 21st of January, 2026. Um, my name is Duffy Westimer. I'm the new chair of the Heritage Preservation Commission. The time is [sighs] uh 3. That's not right. It says 3:44, but my my watch it's 2 minutes after 4. Okay. And we're going to get started. Let me get my notes here. So, this is the Flagstaff Heritage Preservation Committee meeting and we're calling to order and we'll start with roll call. Duffy Westimer here. Alec Overman, present. Emily Dale, here.

Jesse Dominguez. Alicia Hayes, Jeannie Stevens here. Thank you, Nancy. Isn't Alicia excused? Isn't she? Yes, she is. Thanks. Okay. Next is Next is the land acknowledgement. Would someone like to read that? I haven't read it in a while. Uh, the Heritage Preservation Commission humbly acknowledges the ancestral homelands of this area's indigenous nations and original stewards. These lands still inhabited by native descendants, border mountains, sacred to indigenous peoples.

We honor them, their legacies, their traditions, and their continued contributions. We celebrate their past, present, and future generations who will forever know this place as home. Thank you. All right. Uh, moving on is the open call to public. And I'll just read what it says so I make sure it's everything that's required. At this time, any member of the public may address the commission on any subject within their jurisdiction that is not scheduled before the commission on this day.

Due to open meeting laws, the commission cannot discuss or act on items presented during this portion of the agenda. to address the commission on an item that is on the agenda. Please wait for the chair to call the public comment at the time. The item is heard and you do need to submit a card with your name in the agenda item. So, is there anyone here at this time who wants to speak to an item not on the agenda?

I believe you have one card up there that says for number four, which is the open call to the public. Okay. Thanks. Um Sarah Karen Malis Cart you have three minutes. Thank you. [clears throat] Good afternoon uh commission members who I'm just delighted I know several of you and city staff. My name is Karen Malice Clark. I am a 50year resident of Flagstaff. I currently reside at 63 West Pine Avenue.

I recently um submitted comments to um other city staff in the city council and these seem very relevant to this commission. So, I thought I would pop down here and share those comments. I support the city of Flag Staff's purchase of the All Thrive 365 parcel located on Karen. That might be an agenda item. Sarah, does that count as an agenda item? Yes, it does. It's 7 C. We are We are going to do an update on that item later on. And can we change her card to 7C? Can I just do that for her?

I'll I'll see you later, I guess. I mean, it won't be that long. We only have, you know one. Well, when I when I looked at the agenda, I didn't see it, so I will change it. Yes. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, Karen, for your understanding. Was Was the new agenda posted at the same time we got it? So, like last night? Yes, it was posted last night at 3:53 p.m. physically and online. So, it was met the 24hour requirement, but that's something to always watch for with agendas. Yeah.

And it just means some people may not have caught it. Correct. Okay. So the next item is number five, approval of minutes. So they are from the regular meeting on December 17th, 2025. Are there any comments, suggestions or comments or corrections? Okay, I see none. So would someone like to move to accept the minutes? Jesse, I move that we accept the minutes as presented. I second the approval of the minutes for December 17th, 2025. Um, any discussion? No. Shall we vote? All in favor say I. I.

Any opposed? Okay, it passes unanimously. Forgive me while I make notes. I was told to make notes. All All right. So, we move on to the public hearing, which is item 6A, address 822 West Grand Canyon Avenue. It's a grant application. That was just the timer. Sorry. We should have turned it off. [laughter] Okay. It's an application for the signs and facades grant. The owner is Kip James Kip Moyer. Um Lauren, do you have a presentation for him or is he here to speak for himself?

Um I believe that yes, he is here and I can um answer any immediate questions you have or if you'd like um Kip can come up and speak. I have um just so Kip knows, I have the application pulled up as well as the two links that were included um in the application to different window options. Um but just to review really quickly, this is a level one grant, so level one up to $10,000. Um we do have sufficient funds remaining to award if the commission chooses.

Um and the specific items um listed in the scope of work were window replacement, so removing non-historic windows and putting something back that would be a little more compatible um with the age of the building. Uh restoring a missing eve at the over the front door and um some exterior painting of the home of the home and the garage. Any other questions for me or we can welcome up the applicant? Let's have the applicant come and present his project.

She said on the other ones that doesn't stay on. That's why I'm having trouble. Um well, we should have all read what you sent. Um, is there anything that you've learned or decided since or anything you've revised or you want us to know in addition to what you sent? Can you actually speak into the microphone otherwise the people online can't hear? Thank you. The windows are the main issue. The paint is pretty straightforward. the windows.

I've had a hard time getting actual quotes from Marvin, which is the manufactured windows that I thought would represent the historical significance the best or whatever, you know, to go with the time period. Um, so I have a quote from Gelwin, which is Home Depot carries. My understanding from my research is that you'd prefer not to have vinyl windows. So I was looking at fiberglass and aluminum and wood and wood windows.

Um, so I've underestimated in my application the cost of the windows because I went on the low end of the Marvin, but they have this weird system where you have to get hold of a sales rep to get a quote. I can't get a call back from the sales rep, so I moved on to Jeldwin. And um, I have that here. Uh, the quote is 8500 for the seven windows. There's a combination of sliders and double hungs depending on the window.

Um, it would replace some aluminum windows that were probably installed in the 80s. Um, two of the double hungs are original windows, I believe, with, you know, wood in there, but they don't work anymore. They don't open. The screens don't work very well. So, I was trying to replace those so they'd be more functional. Um, that's the maybe the modification or the update since I submitted the application. Is there anything else that I can address? I had a question about the eve.

It said you were going to restore an eve. Do you have any historic photos of the home that show that in place? Any idea when it was added or removed? I I don't have um photos of the of the home with the eve. I did submit photos of the home with my application that shows the there's like one by fours that are still there in the shape of the eve. Um we're and I've looked at other EES in the neighborhood. The one issue that I'm seeing with that and our handyman. Yeah.

And the handyman is we just have to figure out how to brace it. So it's because of where the door is and how the door opens out that screen door. It is a possibility to get rid of the screen door and then that would make it pretty easy. But right now adding braces because of those large windows and the way the door opens. Um, it's going to take some engineering to figure out how to bring that back. If you guys have any suggestions, I'm open to it. But I'd love to have the eve there.

Um, it's just a matter of engineering it so it actually works because there's not a lot of place to put a support. If you look up there, you know, there's just those what 2x4s or whatever they are that are the framing for the door. I'm just curious how you determined the colors you chose. I I like them a lot. I was just wondering what your methodology was or your thoughts there. I just did period specific research on what original colors were at this time period and this architectural style.

Anyone else? I have an idea for your uh eve support. You could do posts and have them come down to the concrete pad. It's a a possibility. Okay. Um but when I read about that in your application, it said um that you in the future wanted to do it, but if you get a grant, you have a year. So you'd have to if you're going to include that in your grant application, it needs to be included in that year. uh the work needs to be done. Yeah.

Um because of the unknowns after talking to my to the handyman that I work with on how to do it, I actually didn't even apply for it. I'd I would really like to do it, but we just weren't sure if we could pull it off. And so I didn't put it in there because I didn't want to uh apply for something that might not be physically possible. And it seemed also like potentially the least expensive part of all of this too, depending on, you know, how it goes. Thank you. Yeah.

Um, I will point out the eve restoration is listed in your budget on the application. And that was going to be a question I had because there's a question about how I'm assuming windows will cost more, but we're still waiting on some quotes and the eve restoration is in there. Can we like if we approve it, would we have the ability to approve it with an updated budget or is it okay if there are some unknowns? Okay, my bad. Sorry, I thought we had taken it out. Do you want to answer that, Lauren?

I think, you know, and if you approve as a level one, it is going to exceed the level one cost. Um, so I think it would be okay to have more in there. And then if it turned out that the windows and painting alone um hit the level one and this scope of work item didn't didn't fit, I think that would be fine. And we've seen that on other applications in the past.

Um and it could be uh you could add a condition if you wanted to see include this and see like the the design come back later um once that's figured out. Um but I or you could also choose just to cover the other items as I do think based on your updated estimates it is gonna um windows are expensive and then I think same with the window condition.

If you did want to know what the the final choice would be, that could be a condition of approval that you would like to approve that or at least um your discussion which I I will see the building permit to approve it anyways. But um anyone else have comments or questions? No. Okay. I actually have. So, uh, more you'll bring back window styles then as you settled settle on this and are they it sounds like you have two original windows remaining. Yeah.

That you want to replace because they're nonfunctioning. Yeah. Um, and will the all the new windows match those? Because I think you said something about sliders. There's some sliders and some double hung. Are the sliders visible from the street? They're on the north side of the house. So, the ones that are directly visible from the studio are going to be double hungs. And the ones that we're replacing on the I guess it'd be kind of the north side of the house, which is the driveway side.

As you drive up Grand Canyon, you if you looked at the house on the side of the house, you would you could you could see them. They're not as prominent as the ones in the front. Um those currently have sliders and those are currently the aluminum single pane windows from the 80s. When you talk about the front and I see those two almost picture window size windows. Um are those being replaced? Those are not. Those are like a um like a sun room. Mhm. Closed porch. Yep. Like a front porch sun room.

It would be as you look at the photo to the left. And I don't know if I submitted photos maybe like that one right there. That's a that's a big double hung. That's one of the three that need to I think two or three on that side that need to be replaced. And when those are replaced, will they be inset like historic windows were and you'll have the trim profiles in the sill? Yes. Awesome. Thank you. Yep. Can I ask you guys a question?

Is it true that vinyl is not something that you want because of the, you know, to to meet the time period that you're looking for more fiberglass or wood windows? Is that true? Lauren and Sarah, you want to speak to that? Yes, generally it is um seen as more compatible. It looks closer to the historic.

Um it's also generally the other options are easier to paint to match um the historic and I think there is some lenience with like is um that commission was alluding to you know something that's non-visible on the back of the property you're replacing a non-historic window with another non-historic window for other options. Um but generally our guidelines um for window replacements specifically state that vinyl is not preferred. Okay, that's what I thought.

I just wanted to confirm and I would replace all the windows. This proposal is to replace all the windows in the front of the house that are visible. There are windows, you know, on the back of the house, but those were replaced probably 20 years ago or something and they're not visible. So I wouldn't replace those. And that is why I went with the, you know, the fiberglass and the wood was to try to meet the requirements.

And um I'm happy to do I guess the ones that I'm replacing now the either slider or double hung would stay the same, but I'm happy for suggestions too if that's something. Oh, and the other thing I wanted to say was um paint would be last. So, all of this work would be done, the windows first and then paint, like you mentioned, trim and all that would be done after all the um home improvements were done. Makes sense. Thank you for all that information. Appreciate it.

Um we would we would like it if you can work within our budget of um the fiscal year 25 to 26, which I think ends in the end of June. Is that possible for you to do? Yes. Cool. Oh, I also want to thank you for your dedication to um restoring the house. We know you're not in a district and the house isn't listed, but thank you for trying to maintain its character. It's a It's a cool house and Yeah. Thanks. I support that comment. Anyone else want to ask questions or say anything?

So, do we want to see like the final windows as a condition or let Lauren approve them based on the conversation that we've had? Jean, I support letting Lauren look at those. I know that. [laughter] Is that okay with you, Lauren? You're just looking like, oh, no, more work. Yeah. I mean I um if you're it sounds like you're okay with generally with the options presented.

Um so I you could do that as a condition of approval and then as a future approval item on the agenda I can show you what was done and that will of course also be part of the grant inspection reporting back. But I can include the what I approve and then show you of course the final project in the end. That will keep him moving in this fiscal year as well. Should be good. Okay. All right. Do we have a motion? I can do it.

I uh move to approve a level one historic signs and facades grant for 822 West Grand Canyon Avenue for the replacement of non-historic windows and exterior painting uh with the condition that Lauren approve uh the window selection administratively. I second I left out the eaves part. Is that okay? Yeah, I I would my only question um is just now that it turns out we are talking about two original windows being replaced as part of the scope which is a little different than what was submitted.

What is it? Five non-historic and two historic. Guess I'd have to look at pictures. I think it's three of non-historic and historic window window replacement. Yeah. Is that enough? Do you want to take two? You can. Oh, yeah. You can restate.

I move to approve a level one historic signs and facades grant application at 822 West Grand Canyon Avenue for the replacement of non-historic and historic windows and exterior painting with the condition that Lauren approve the window selection administratively. I second the motion. Any discussion? Shall we vote? Uh, all in favor? I. Any opposed? Okay, it passes. Thank you for your for caring about the house. Thank you. Can I have one clarifying question? No. So, okay.

[laughter] Do I just uh I I cement what windows I'm going to use? I pick them and then I submit them to you and then you say or nay. Is that how it works? Yes. And then I when you actually come in for a building permit for the windows, they um I'm happy to do that in advance and then I will also be a a formal reviewer on the um window permit. Okay. All right. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for Thank you, Keep. Okay. Moving on, we go to that was 6A. We now go to I am missing a page. Here it is.

7 A to appoint a three-person standing subcommittee for review of Flagstaff Register of Historic Places nominations. Lauren? Yes, thank you. I will do a a brief introduction to this one. Um, so in we have a Flagstaff register of historic places which um we have not used very much over time. Generally speaking, the city, although we have our own register, has just um let things be nominated to the state and federal register of historic places.

And um some of our register language and our interpretation has been that if it is listed on the national register, we automatically consider it being listed on our local register of historic places. Um but uh a year ago, December December 2024, we had [laughter] um our first case in several decades of needing to list a building just on the Flagstaff Register of Historic Places.

And the background of that was um we the building was out of compliance with a FEMA permit um and needed to and in order to continue staying um working on the rehabilitation project they were working on and be in compliance, they needed a register listing. the FEMA rules change from something being eligible being eligible for the National Register allowing it to have a FEMA exemption to having to be listed.

Um, and our city Flagstaff register listing process is uh much shorter than the national register listing process and does not involve Shipo or the Park Service. So, um, so because of that, uh, Sarah at the time, I wasn't, um, quite here yet when when it first started, um, dusted off an older section, um, of our code and to get to the Flagstaff Register of Historic Places.

And part of that requires that this commission have a standing subcommittee of three members to review Flagstaff Register of Historic Places nominations. And this is a subcommittee to be appointed annually. So we did this um you know back in at the end of 2024 and that um committee just expired.

So we do not have any um register nominations to review at the moment um but would like to still appoint the standing subcommittee so that way we are ready if uh Flagstaff register nomination comes in in the next year and we aim to um have the standing subcommittee in place moving forward. Any other questions on that? Um, and I I some of you, well, I guess two of you potentially were on the subcommittee. I was like, Emily, if you want I think it was just me and then Bernardet and Abby. Yeah.

So, I'm the only one left. But I'd be happy to do it again. Anyone else? I can do it probably. I'm interested as well. There you go. You have your three. We have Emily, Alec, and um Jean. And do we need a formal vote to appoint our subcommittee members? Yes, I think you have to make a motion and appoint them as a formal subcommittee of the commission. Do they need to be nominated and uh that uh I think the I think you can nominate them as a slate.

Um yes, you can nominate them as a slate of like you're you are establishing the subcommittee with these three members. Can I do that or does someone else need to do that? Anyone can you can if you want to first you can. Okay. I would like to nominate the slate for the Flagstaff um subcommittee for reviewing the Flagstaff Register of Historic Places. Nom um places uh 2B Emily Dale, Alec Overman, and Jean Stevens. We need a second. I'll second that. Okay. And let's vote. All in favor? I opposed.

Okay, passes. Unan. Then we have our historic signs and facades grant tracking as of January 2026. That's item 7B. Thank you. And so the update uh for this month is that the reimbursement payment for the 61 West Cherry project is complete. Last month I reported on the grant inspection and that the work had been completed and everything submitted. Um so now we um are up to date. Everything apart from the decision earlier tonight um has been has been completed and paid out.

So now I will you know for next month update that we have one new award um with um you know pending work and payment. So um so that will bring us to still having 120,000 available for this fiscal year which is quite a lot. So um keep spreading the word about our grant opportunity. Any comments or anything with Lauren on that? Are we going to get pictures of the the last ones that have been settled anytime? We've already done that. All of them. Anyone see them?

She said we already we've already done all of reported all of the ones that have been. Oh, okay. I guess I don't remember saying that. So, we Yeah, they've all all the inspections have happened and been reported on. Um, so, but we will do it with the new one. No one else? Okay. Thank you. All right. 7C overview of heritage preservation and city past decisions regarding the David Babbot house. So Lauren Sarah who's going to give that presentation or do we do public participation first?

Yeah, presentation first. Thank you all for your help. Yes, Sarah, as she was actively part of the original decisions, and I believe Commissioner Dale was the also the the [laughter] only one who was still here at the time, um said she'd speak to the original approvals of the report, um based on her knowledge of that and then I can tell you the history of this, my decisions and role in the project to date.

So, the David Babbett House and the San Francisco Daisy's school um were first proposed as um potential demolitions I think in late 2020. Um the commission at the time um was being presented with a a certificate or I'm sorry, not a certificate, a cultural resource study. Um, this property is not in the downtown overlay and therefore did not require a certificate. So, it was only a cultural resource study, a phase 2. Um, it took the commission continued this item for several months.

If you recall, it included a field trip to the site pre-demolition, pre any construction on the site um with the state historic preservation office, which sent three staff people up to look at it with staff. um during and after the decision was made to approve the cultural resource study which is and which included a condition to create a salvage plan to be approved by the historic preservation officer. Um there was also attempts to price moving the building which was exorbitantly expensive.

This is not a small building like the May Hicks house that we can stick on a truck. You would have had to break it into three pieces. was also there was no known site to move it to. Um also um other parts of the process were ongoing. So the historic preservation commission essentially completed its work in 2021 2022 and other applications with the city were ongoing such as the minor modification to their design, their civil plan reviews, um site planning, all of those things were ongoing.

And then at least once a year they were in touch with the historic preservation officer which was Mark during most of that time and then this year Lauren to be working on ideas for the salvage plan. Um there's been several iterations of it in that prior to the one that was finally approved um of where the items would go, how they would be stored, what was actually being removed and salvaged from the building.

And then Lauren is responsible for monitoring that the salvage is carried out and that items are delivered and stored in the proper way until such time as they are either introduced into a new building. um which some of the items are proposed to be kept and reused um are received by someone who has agreed to take them and include them in their historic existing historic property or um otherwise acquire them. Um and that's what we're monitoring at this time.

That's the role that the HPC and the HPO has in the process. So once the cultural resource study is approved that and there's conditions are met that is when Lauren reviews a demolition permit and approves it. So she has her role in the process is to make sure that any conditions of this body are met prior to that being signed. And this particular demolition permit um came in early in the fall and was approved in November. Did I miss anything that you remember, Commissioner Dale?

No, that's kind of how I remember. Um, can you explain a little bit what the final salvage plan was? Like what did they end up saving or Yeah, sure. Yeah. So the um some of it is still ongoing, but they I the property owner um identified a list of significant architectural features to be salvaged um several years ago. Um shortly, so January 2021 was when the commission approved the phase 2 cultural resource study and and added the salvage requirement as a condition of approval.

Um and then later in the year um the those resources specific items were identified um and Mark reviewed that and approved the list of items um and then asked for uh more you know specific um report of how they would be removed like how they would be documented safely removed um you know especially with knowing that there was asbestous and lead and other abatement concerns. Um, and then also asking this for the salvage plan to identify organizations they would be going to.

Um, or if the property owner plan to repurpose them. Um, and um, and I think and I added once I started being a reviewer, um, also, you know, like storage, if something is going to be put into storage in the meantime before it's reused, what are the storage conditions and what, you know, type of facility have you identified? Um so that's the the sorts of nuts and bolts um that came in in the salvage plan. Um they also had received a lot of nos when they reached out to organizations.

So part of the plan was just documenting all of the various organizations that they did reach out to and um declined on taking any items. Um but um the townsite community land trust was one of the recipients. uh Flagstaff Shakespeare Festival was another recipient.

Um there are some item there potential item that may be donated to the library to go on display which is one of the stained glass windows just as like an art piece with an interpretive panel um is planned and then for some some items were to planned to be reused in the new facility um on site which had been Mark Grievous as the HBO had stated that was his preference um and encourage heavily encouraged them you know in their planning like the best case scenario is to repurpose it on site.

So if you can do that and so they had taken that into consideration in the salvage plan as well. And then for other items that there is they couldn't find a home for and then also if it turned out later on that they um wouldn't be able to use certain things in the new development. The plan was um to offer them up for auction and to raise money which they planned on donating to the nativity um for the nativity restoration.

Um they also put out a little coffee table book about the David Babbot house um which they're selling on Amazon and the proceeds for that are also going to the nativity restoration. That wasn't a specific HPC condition. Um so is that so that's the main status. So, some of the items have been removed already. Um, oh, and some actually went to Babbot family descendants. Great. Thanks.

I think the other thing that we talked about was what would happen if during demolition construction they found any archaeological materials and basically it was like the site's been so worked over there's nothing there. So, that was another for the archaeologists on the commission. That is something that we discussed and it was basically like we've already done that and there's nothing there. And what is there has been recorded.

I think they found like a old sistern or something like that or Yeah, the sistern is actually incorporated into Yeah. the foundation of the addition of the house now. Yeah. Cool. All right. Thank you, Jesse. I drove by it a couple days ago and I noticed the sighting was removed. Is that because I'm sure it's asbestous, correct? Um yes. So that that's why nobody took that home. I hope not. Um because of the asbestous. Yes.

So the um as part of the demolition permit, it's also included the abatement work um which started um I believe late last year um and so and that has been ongoing and yes there is asbestous in the exterior sighting and um that they the abatement company had identified um to me on a pre and possibly chair westimer on a previous site visit that we did.

And so yes, I believe that that is why that has been removed and some of the other features, you know, windows, doors, um other things that are being salvaged in addition to so some salvage work has happened and then the abatement. One more thing, thank you for sending me that report uh from last week or last month. You're very welcome. Anyone else? That looks like a no.

Um well, I would um like to say that I read the staff report that Mark wrote on that project and it was so tightly tied to what at that time the Foundation for Senior Living and Catholic Charities were going to build that it seems to me that now that everything has changed and they want to sell the property, it's an opportunity for Flag Staff to follow through on our respect for our founders.

Um the Babbot family with the Rearens built this town and all the people who lived here and worked for them and um it they were extremely important. That's the last remaining Bab home and um it's significant on every level whether it's Flagstaff or so the person who wrote the cultural resource study was very competent Annie Loots she just identified local um criteria but as Mark pointed out and I agreed 100% that all the national criteria also matter. That's a really significant property.

The house can absolutely be restored. It seems that at this time with the property for sale, it um it would make sense for the commission to speak up and say, "Hey, this is all changed. do we actually want to encourage our city council, which is something we're allowed to do, is to advise city council to work with and see if we can get that house saved. So, David Babbett was the oldest of the five brothers who arrived here.

I don't know if you all know all the history and I can't go into it all because there is so much. [laughter] He was the oldest and he was the merchant. So he actually demolished his first house at the corner of Aspen and San Francisco and built that beautiful commercial building. Then he built this house that we're talking about in n in I'm going to forget 1886. They hadn't even been here that long when he built that. He also donated the land for the schools. He donated the land for nativity.

And his family is the rest is leading the restoration. his descendants. The importance of that family in Flagstaff should not be erased. It we just it would be so disrespectful. Um it wasn't a direct David Babbot descendant who became the governor of this state and ultimately the secretary of the interior, but it was his brother's children.

So, I mean, the the importance of that house in this community, um, and especially for people who have lived here a long time, we've had to watch it not be taken care of, which is heartbreaking, but there's nothing like it left in this town. And that can that family was, you can't beat that family for what they did for Flagstaff. Jesse can speak to that better.

I mean, no matter what you may personally think of them or your personal experiences, they had so many businesses that created so many jobs. They did so much for Flagstaff in the state of Arizona that I don't want to see their history erased. I want to embrace it. It's we're we're a tourist town. People come here for tourism, to see our history. And I think if this city or someone buys it, at least for a long time, it's going to be a flat parking lot.

So, I've asked a couple of people how many spaces would be in that property and it would be like six parking places. So, we could have six parking places for what I don't know or a fabulous home that would tourists would love to look at and learn about on the exterior and then the person who wants to buy it will use the interior and have it serve the community.

So, I'm just bringing up to the commission if as a group we would like to advise council on the importance of the Babbots that house and uh trying to save it because it's more important than six parking places. Sarah, I'd just like to remind the chair we did not agendaize taking an action tonight with this item. This was just like a cover an overview. So if the commission wants to agendaize an action for a future meeting, that is something you can discuss during this time.

It says gather questions for a future presentation, but you can also ask for that to be agendaized in the future. What your authority states is that the commission may recommend acquisition of landmark structures by the city.

Our purpose is to protect, enhance the cultural, historical, and archaeological heritage of the city of Flagstaff by recognizing, preserving, enhancing, and perpetuating the use of those objects, structures, sites, and landscape features that represent distinctive elements of the city's cultural, political, architectural, and archaeological history.

The council finds and intends that preservation of the city's heritage is in the interest of the health, economic prosperity, education, cultural enrichment, and general welfare of the public. And um there's a time limit. There is totally a time limit. These people have a demo permit. They don't live here. I don't know that they live here, but we do. So um okay Sarah we cannot make a vote but we can write and talk to council members.

Yes commissioners are always able to speak to write at council and we have the we can there's an email on the city website to write letters to council as individ as individuals.

You always need to make sure when you're providing those kinds of communications that you say um I'm not speaking on behalf of the commission when you offer your personal um even if they are shared they need to be expressed personally if you've not agendaized making a recommendation to council and working on a letter or set up a subcommittee to do it which is the manner in which that can move forward. I would also like to point out that we have already done all of these things.

As Sarah pointed out, when this first came before the commission, we had several meetings about it. We explored along with Mark and people on the commission who knew people ways to try to save the building, coming up with a salvage plan. There was also a lot of concerns because of asbestous that the building could not be reused um and that it had kind of fallen into disrepair in a way that would make it hard to to salvage um even what could be salvaged.

So we we already did a lot of what you're asking and that doesn't mean we can't speak to those issues again but it's not like the commission failed. We did what what we had to do and what was within our purview. And I also don't think, and this was going to be a question that I had for you guys even before this was on the agenda, is we've seen a lot of projects get started and then stall halfway through. We've got the El PBLO Motel that's half demolished.

We've got that halfbuilt hotel down on Route 66. And it's concerns that we have over at the old city hall. But I don't know how much it is in our power to tie our approvals to specific uses of land. I don't think we can say it's okay to demolish this building if it's going to be a senior center, which is something that this town definitely needs, low-income housing for seniors, but we won't approve it if it's for a parking lot.

And if plans change, I don't I mean, I just assume those things don't come back to us because a new owner has that property. We've approved the demolition of the building. Yeah. And I would just confirm, especially in this case, what you were approving was just the demolition. the commission did not have authority to review the new development. So just the property owner and and that is partly because as Sarah mentioned this is not in the downtown overlay. There are no design guidelines.

You would not have seen a site plan with the plans for the new building and to be given a certificate of appropriateness. That's um maybe the case in other situations. That's not the case here. Um, and just as a a good point of reference, I'd point you to um, two meetings ago in November, the commission reviewed and approved a phase 2 report for a structure to be demolished. Um, that it's the exact same case.

So, that is a structure that is a contributing resource to a national register listed district. It is outside of an overlay. Um, and the owner wished to demolish it and so did a phase two um, to record it. um per our code requirements that came to the commission. The commission reviewed that um with additional mitigation or approved that with additional mitigation.

So essentially and you know very different scale of houses we're talking about but in terms of commission authority and code procedures um they're the same process. So, I would just like to say I did not mean to insult the previous commission at all. Um, but when you read Mark's report, it was ab the decisions that were made were tied to what was going to be built. I'm just going to make that perfectly clear. Anybody can read it for themselves. Which decision?

Because again, we we were just voting on de we were just approving the report. We weren't approving any we didn't get a demolition approval. None of that came to us. We just got there's a plan for this property. Here's the site report. Do you approve of this report? What the HBO does is outside of our purview to vote on. I would urge you to go read Mark's report. I did, but granted it was six years ago. But I just feel like, you know, what are we here for? What are we here for?

We are here for the purpose. I read it's a significant property on every level that you can possibly come up with that's not archaeological. It's an important Flagstaff and Arizona family that cannot be disputed. Right. We have the Rear Mansion State Historic Park. I think we need to like stop and see if the person who wants to buy it can get it, purchase it, and save it. And I think that Flagstaff will benefit from that.

It's not, you know, I just think that would be very useful this for this community. Jean, I was uh I want to ask what the time frame is for making this recommendation to city council and if there's any ability for those of us who are not here to um review some of these materials and if that is at all in the realistic. Um, in terms of reviewing materials, do you mean like reopening review past approval of items?

I mean, and that that is is not um the timeline for anyone to have appealed the commission's approval, the phase 2 report was 10 days after the approval. So, that is well pasted. So, I mean, you're you're of course welcome to review all of the past materials. Um, and as Commissioner Dominguez, he had reached out to me and I sent him the report to review and I can send it to anyone else who's interested in reading it. Um, so happy to read for your own.

Yeah, that's appreciate that and that's not what I'm asking more like what are we being this is a great discussion but some of us don't have the background and if there's a time frame for any any action or recommendation if that could be made clear and then if there I would love the report also it came in yesterday the agenda item I didn't have a chance to ask for it so so let me say it is unknown what may happen in the coming weeks And this this point in time, the decision of what to do is being addressed through negotiations with the property owner, which are confidential decisions made by council.

So I think that um Chair Westimer's suggestion that you can communicate your opinions individually as individuals not member of the commission to council is an open invitation at any time. Um, but there's you I there is nothing currently on any council agendas that we could tell you is a city decision and some decisions are not city decisions. I mean there is an issued demolition permit and the city cannot retract it. So and it it's no longer it's past the point of time where it can be appealed.

So um that is that's just the condition things are in today. Um, and so I can't offer any advice on that other than yes, you have the ability to use the council email if there's something after this discussion you want to share with them that's falls into the range of your personal opinion. But there I we can certainly keep you advised if there is something that is agendaized and you would like to come attend a public meeting where there is an opportunity to discuss it.

But that's those are really the only two things that staff can offer today. And we can certainly in February when we have our next regular meeting, if there are things we can update the commission on or if there's actually been an action that's been taken or we know one is pending, we can offer an update at that time. Um, and that's why the agenda item read as gather questions for a future presentation or item. We could we could offer that of keeping it as a general business item for February.

We can only discuss today what has happened so far and where we are today. I have kind of a two questions. Um so just to clarify the certificate of de demolition has been given to the property owner. So tech hypothetically technically any day the property owner at this current time could start the demolition of the Babbot house. Correct. Yeah.

The demolition permit yes was issued last fall and they have the right to I mean really they have already been doing interior demolition and exterior demolition as commissioner Dominguez pointed out and they can continue that. Correct. And then if the city were to go on and purchase the property and the building had not been fully demolitioned, then it's up to the city to decide. Is that correct? Do you mean to decide whether or not to demolish? Yes.

To continue the dem the demolition of the building. If the city purchases that property and has not been finished demolition yet, would they inherit? I don't know that we could answer a hypothetical like that today. I don't think we have the answer. That's that's part of why we made sure to agendaize this as bringing you up to speed on the correct information about past decisions because we cannot speak to future decisions or what they might mean today.

Jesse, mine is more of a comment and I know that I appreciate everything that everybody says has said here. Mine is more historical. I see the nuns going in and out of that building. I see having meetings in there in that beautiful sun. That's enough. I assume that co comment was not directed at Commissioner Dominguez. I was going to say somebody's talking to me. It's not voices in your head. We're sorry for the interruption. I believe it may have been directed at Corgi.

Um, it's just it's just the thoughts of, you know, as individuals, we should try to do whatever we can to preserve history of Flagstaff. I never knew Mr. Babbot. It was before my time. Even though I'm old, it was before my time. But I do have fond memories of that beautiful building and I've whatever happens is going to happen.

But I think if as as individuals and and I'm thank thanks for that Sarah, you know, not as a commissioner, I will definitely talk to my counselors and to the mayor, whoever else I can talk to that will listen to me to try to see if we can save a little bit of Flagstaff's history. Um, if we can do it, let's try it. Again, I have great memories of of the nuns, the priest, the children that were in that building. And the most important part is, and I don't know, you guys have been in it.

I haven't been in it in a long time. Was the adoration chapel that was built there by the uh priest uh where you would go and pray in in silence and what have you right next to the kitchen that smells so good. But anyways, it's just a comment. I think we if we can do individually something to preserve that beautiful building, let's try it. Thank you.

So to bring it back to potential um sort of more official commission support, could we and people on commission can disagree with the suggestion, but could we agendaize something where we just say as a commission we support the city's efforts to preserve the house and are happy to consult or provide guidance to council regardless of you know what the decision ends up being. just that as a commission we support their efforts.

I think that um as as chair Westtimer stated that this it may be by the time we meet again that things have rolled out and happened. So, I think the better way is to keep our eyes on the city council agendas um for things that may the city may be able to influence. Um and but if you want to think through questions or like the potential of having a letter approved at the next if it's necessary, we could we could work to agendaize something just depending on where we are.

I think we've heard your desire that if there is an opportunity next month for us to I I mean there's two ways we really do like a letter from the commission. One, if staff knows what you're trying to get across, we can like draft a letter that you can discuss and approve at the meeting.

Um, so you could give us some information on that today if you wanted or um, you write it in the meeting or you can form a little subcommittee or someone can agree to go write it and bring it back the next month. There's kind of several ways to do that part of the process. Um, so it's just a matter of do you have questions for a future presentation? Do you want us to bring back if there's an opportunity or an action you could write a letter about?

like you can't advise the property owner directly like um that's not that's not what it says. It says that you can talk about the acquisition of city property to the council. So um that's those are kind of the range of things maybe and um if you let us know what you'd like to see. Um you also still can I think you have some public comment cards for this item too. So um we can also pause and you can resume that part of the conversation after you hear public comment. Are you all okay with that?

If we pause and have public comment. Okay. Um, Bill, I don't remember if you or Karen came first, but I'm let ladies go first. Is that okay? Okay. Karen Maliskar, please. And thank you for your patience, Karen. Hello again. Very interesting. Karen Malice Clark here. The timer. Okay. It's not for you, Karen. Sorry. Longtime resident of Flag Staff, I really appreciated your very thoughtful conversation here and I thought it was relevant to share my comments that I did send to council.

Um, I support the city of Flagstaff purchasing the AllThrive 365 parcel downtown on Humphre. Um, I thanked the council for their proactivity and leadership in considering the purchase of this downtown parcel. This opportunity seems a win-win for all involved with an added bonus win of historic preservation of the David Babbot home. Just as the Babbot family donated their house and their land for the greater good of the community, the city now has that opportunity also.

um all the parties involved um to do something for the greater um the greater good of our community. And I'll just say something the situation has changed since a lot of these tools and decisions were in place. The situation has changed. um the the current property owner had wanted to demolish. Well, the property owner hopefully will change now and hopefully that new property owner will be the city of Flagstaff.

So there is an opportunity to make some new decisions and I speak as someone who has a lot of experience and situational awareness mostly as it applies to wildfire threatening our community. But um and I want to thank all of you for your service. Um and with that, thank you for the opportunity to comment. Thank you Karen. Phil Bill Scandura. Bill, you have three minutes. Phil was actually on this commission at one time, so he knows that. Good evening. My name is Phil Scandura.

I've been a Flagstaff resident for 20 years at 4853 South Bright Angel Trail. As Chair Westimer has pointed out, I have sat where you are sitting, three terms on the commission, both as commissioners and as chair, and made a lot of tough decisions, as you have made tough decisions, and I appreciate all your efforts. But I'm here tonight to make one specific point. We can't lose the Babbot House. We just lost an entire city block across the street from the oldtown shops. We just lost St.

Mary's school. I'm working to save El PBLO from being lost. You can act to save Babbot. Another prior chair of this commission, David Hayward, who could not be here tonight, submitted a two-page well written letter to the city clerk regarding dates that have expired. So staff has talked about permits in place and approvals that have been made and things that this commission did five years ago. Permits expire after a year. If you haven't done anything, you start over again.

They need to start over again. If the use for the property, the established use that the permits were originally established for, as the commissioner uh as the chairman has pointed out, if that use changes, you start over. It's you have in your power the ability to force them to start over. Now, All Thrive really doesn't want to start over. They don't have any money. It doesn't make any sense for them to demolish that house because it's what are they going to do with the property?

But the fact of the matter is that demolition is is estab is uh scheduled by the end of this month. Now, the HBC code does allow for a one-year demolition delay. Um, usually under economic hardship conditions, if if the uh applicant talks about economic hardship, well, frankly, they don't have any money anymore. Sounds like economic hardship to me. You cannot stop the de demolition, but you can delay it. As far as not being able to act tonight, the chair can call an emergency meeting.

You just have to meet the open meeting law requirements of posting the the agenda in advance and all those things. You have time for an emergency meeting. Your time is clicking. So, I encourage you to call one and let's not lose another Flagstaff resource. Thank you. Thank you, Phil. Don Tucker, please come up. And you have three minutes. Thanks. Chair, commissioner, and staff. Thank you for the work that you do. I want to begin by saying this.

The Historic Preservation Commission has been our greatest ally in protecting Flagstaff's historic places, and I deeply respect the responsibility you carry. That's why I'm here regarding agenda item 7C. An overview of past decisions and a plan to gather questions for future presentation is not enough for the moment we are in. The David Babbot House is scheduled for demolition Friday, January 30th. If that happens, there is no future conversation to be had.

This house is one of the last intact witnesses to Flagstaff's early civic and cultural life. It tells the story of how this town formed its identity, not only through architecture, but through use. It was a home, a gathering place, a retreat, a space where people marked milestones and built community. For many of us, this has personal history. I played in this house as a child. My friend's parents managed the retreat center that occupied it.

My aunt remembers attending school formals in its great room. These are not just memories. They are proof that the building remained meaningful, adaptable, and alive across generations. I also want to speak briefly to process. The demolition approval for this house relies on a cultural resource study and commission decisions tied to a specific development plan. An affordable housing project that the city has now publicly confirmed is no longer moving forward.

When the underlying project changes so substantially, city code requires that approvals be reconsidered or expire. Proceeding with a demolition under those circumstances raises serious compliance concerns. This places the commission in an important position. The code exists to give the city the authority to pause when something no longer aligns with what was approved. Historic preservation is not about resisting change. It is about discernment.

It is about knowing when to slow down, ask better questions, and choose care over momentum, especially when the outcome is irreversible. A pause costs very little. Demolition costs us a piece of Flagstaff that can never be replaced. I am asking you as our strongest allies in this work to act now to slow the process down to ensure the code is being followed and to give the David Babbot House the full consideration it deserves before it's too late.

You must determine tonight that the prior approval has expired and that the demolition is now unlawful. And you can do that right now because under 10-30.30-030E of SUDI code approvals automatically expire if the plans are no longer substantially similar. Thank you so much for your time and your heroic efforts on this important matter. I will echo Mr.

Scandura in urging you that if you are not able to take action tonight, you schedule an emergency meeting that allows you to take action on this item. We have until January 30th. Thank you. Thank you, Don. Any comments from commission members or questions for Oh, can staff please address the some of the public comments regarding um the delay of demolition after the certificates been given out for one year.

I can this that entire section of code for the certificate the certificate of economic hardship and temporary delay of demolition are only within an overlay um a landmark an individual landmark overlay or historic overlay zone. So as we stated earlier this is not in one um and so those sections of the heritage preservation code cannot be applied to this property or that project.

I also um have another thing that um was discussed during the public um participation was the use of an emergency meeting. The language in the board and commission manual states it has to be an actual emergency which I I've asked um for some clarification on from a staff member. Um, but I do not believe that this will meet the definition of an actual emergency. I'm looking in the manual to see what that counts as.

Now, there is a thing called a special meeting, which is a meeting held at a place and time that is not your regular meeting. That has to meet all the regular noticing requirements. So, we have to have the time to assemble an agenda and to post it 24 hours in advance of your meeting. And it has to be a time where the commission can have a quorum. So that is a that is a separate thing from an emergency meeting.

And I just want to be clear on that because the emergency provisions are for like flooding and fire and you know things along those lines. Um a train derailment something that's what is meant by the words emergency. So um I just want to make sure those parts of the code and the board and commission manual are clear. Could I just add one other clarification?

Just there was one offline comment and I just wanted to say on the record um the question of if something is listed in the national register does that mean that it's automatically a city landmark or within the landmark overlay or historic overlay zone and the answer is no. Um so again it has to be have been designated during um that process of our code um and the downtown overlay um that the this property just is not within it.

So just to clarify that although it is a contributor to the district that section of code still does not apply. I think too we're limited by the fact that we approved a cultural study report. We didn't approve a design for a building. It's not like we approved like earlier today you can use these this color of paint and then they decide to go with purple like that would maybe delay it because it's going against what we approved. We didn't approve anything. We didn't approve a building permit.

We didn't build a design. So there's they're not going against anything we approved. We said this cultural resource study report captures the house in enough detail that we think that it is a good report of the house. And so I don't know that many of the things that were suggested actually caused the builder or the demolition to violate anything that the HPC approved if I am correct. If I'm incorrect, please correct me. You are correct. That that is a great example.

um that this grant application or um maybe a similar project that was a rehabilitation and you it within within an overlay for certificate of appropriateness. If the scope of the project had changed substantially, there could be grounds for invalidating the certificate of appropriateness and needing um to come back or it no longer meeting the approval. Um but again, that different different type of situation than the current one.

I'm just going to put this map up really quick because I want to make sure we're we're clear and I know we go over this in the training, but it's there are people here who have questions. So, I want to make sure when we say that it has to be within an overlay to use the certificate process. So, certificate of no effect, certificate of appropriateness or a signific or certificate of economic hardship. We mean those purple and red areas. It must be inside that boundary.

The building we are speaking about right now is located right where my cursor is. It is outside of the purple area. I'll wiggle it. I cannot see. Oh, there it is. There. Okay. Sometimes movement helps. It's a little blue green dot. Yeah, little green dot is the address. But this is the location and therefore only the cultural resource study portion of the zoning code applies.

And I also just want people to be clear that this does not mean that we aren't saddened by the loss of this resource or that we didn't try really hard to preserve it in the past. We are just bound by what the code says. It's the same kinds of conversations we've had over ADUs. Like this is what the law says. As much as we might disagree with that, this is what we are allowed to do. That is the scope in which we have to work.

And just unfortunately a lot of the mechanisms to preserve things don't operate for this building because of its location and because of what we are allowed to do about it and we can be sad about it but um our hands are tied I think in a lot of ways as is uh HBO. So I I don't think we can't um the property is owned by a private entity although they want to sell it. The city wants to buy it. The citizens want to preserve it.

Many citizens, I'm sure there are some who don't care because that's always the case. But I think a special meeting where we come together and we write it up and we submit our comments to council in the next few days because we cannot assume that council knows the history. We cannot assume they understand the context and how important it is to Flagstaff to Nativity Church which is an amazing building if you've never been inside. The history is mind-blowing.

Um, it may be outside the overlays, but the connection to the overlays is indisputable because of the Babbot building and um, the way things evolved over time. They tore down the old Catholic school that used to be on that lot and replaced it with the St. Mary's school, which was not going to be significant, so it was left out of the overlays.

I mean, we can go on about how this has all been managed, but I think it would be worth doing a special meeting in the next couple of days to I think write a letter and or talk to council as the commission whose purpose it is is to preserve history. A lot of those people don't we cannot assume they know the history. They we cannot assume they know the significance of that family. Sure, they see Babbitts Downtown as a you unique outdoor store, but they might not know the history here.

And it is extremely important that family influenced not just Flagstaff, but it influenced Arizona in I mean a family member was the Secretary of the Interior. If that house disappears, the Babbitts are disappearing from our community. I think we we owe them more respect and it's can still be used. It's the asbestous sighting on the outside was not original. So, it needs the original sighting put back on. I mean, this can all be done.

It it can easil not easily, but it can be restored and there's someone who wants to do it. I think we need to support that option and see if we can make it happen for the betterment of this community. the tourism benefits, the benefits to the locals, the benefit to Nativity Church, the benefits to the families that are the descendants. I mean, it just goes on and on.

So, I would like to know if other commission members would be open to a special meeting to write something to have presented to council because we can send them emails all day long and we don't know if they'll read them. So, that's my thought. I'm interested in a special meeting for that purpose as well. I am also. So, uh, Lauren and Sarah, what would we need for a quorum to pull together a special meeting?

So, staff would need probably at least a full day to put an agenda together and get it published. um which would mean the earliest would be Friday. Um if you want to meet in this room, I was just pulling up the council chambers um space and for a quorum you need at least four of you. Yeah. And you need at least four people to be a quorum. Thank you. So four of you are not available then the time doesn't work. Um, Monday the 26th, I do not see that there are any um, holds on this room.

So, you do not have to have the meeting at 400 p.m. You could have it at 3. You could have it at noon. It could be on your lunch break. It depends how much time you'd like to spend. Um um and then that's that's what I can offer right now. But you it would be helpful if you picked a time so that we could ad get our advertising together and advertise [clears throat] it as a special meeting. Would it be um possible to just have a meeting to invite council as opposed to writing a letter?

I mean, I see value in writing a letter, but um to just have the conversation with council as the people who are donating our time to preserve Flagstaff history and have a conversation with council. Is that possible? Um maybe that's something we can research. Yeah, I don't think I know the answer to that. We could present options to you. I mean, I'm sure if if you're writing a letter and you want to make suggestions, you can you can do that. But um exactly, you know, what that would look like.

Um maybe HPC presenting at a future meeting or offering to be um a resource for a future council agenda item. We can research that and get back to you. What I I would say the council has very busy calendars and pulling them together outside of a regular meeting if time is of the essence, which your call for a special meeting says so is impractical. Um, so you if you develop a letter, you could speak at the open call to the public at a council meeting. Those are good ideas and suggestions.

Thank you. Right. I have a question for staff. Uh, just to clarify, just to get clarification on this. So um council cannot do anything regarding preserving this property until they purchase it fully. Correct. Correct. I mean yes in terms of preventing demolition. Um I mean yes it is not owned by the city. Um and as you we discussed earlier they have a demo permit. So there is no action that HBC or the city in general could take to prevent them from executing that.

Yeah, I'm not I'm not saying I'm against doing a letter or meeting a special meeting. I very much think that's a good idea and presenting it to council. I just want I just want to make sure everyone's clear like whatever our suggestions say council can be like yes that's great but then in the end they may also have their hands tied like our hands are tied currently. But uh it's also that if you don't ask, the answer is always no.

So Sarah, I just recommend that we agendaize this in a manner that is consistent with your enacting authority, which I think grades as recommending acquisition of a landmark property is part of like your list of things you are authorized to do. So, um, that that would just be my feedback is that we say that you are considering a letter to recommend acquisition of a landmark property at this address. Darn it.

But there is a private individual who wants to purchase that little portion of the entire piece of property and that, you know, I think that should be give that person the opportunity to do it for one thing. Then the city doesn't have to spend as much. all Thrive gets some money out of it and you don't have to be responsible. Um, it can still become a landmark property if that owner wants to do it.

So, it seems to let that person have the chance to follow through on it and then if the city buys it, then we can recommend that the city make it a landmark. But real estate people tend to tear things down because they think a blank piece of land is worth more and it isn't always. That house has a lot of value. Sarah, um, it's not under the commission's jurisdiction to recommend someone else buy a property. That's just not something you can do.

So, I think your choices are you you recommend that council um acquire the property or you don't. I mean, dealing with whether it becomes a landmark property under a future property owner by statute requires property owner permission and that's a whole different that's a whole different thing than writing a letter to council saying this should be preserved and the city should acquire it.

I guess that's the Well, the city has influence and if they were to talk to the current owner to say we would like it saved, that probably is influential. Um, it's not our place to talk to that private property owner, but I would say the council does things like that. So, um, or if the council were to agree with us and say to the private property owner, please don't tear down the house. When we buy it, we're going to make it a landmark.

This sounds now like we're writing the letter rather than agendaizing an item. And I feel like this conversation might be best kept for if we have a special meeting, if that makes sense. I mean, it's good to like think about these things and work them out what we can and cannot say, but yeah, I think my question is how how to agendaize this special meeting. and I made the recommendation that you you tie how you agendaize it to your enacting authority. Um, which I could pull up on the screen.

Um, no, I thought your wording was good that we would be crafting a council's statement on the under our chartered I don't know recommending acquisition of a landmark property which is E under your enacting authorities or D think Jesse I just have a question of staff when does a demolition permit expire? I would have to look that up um and get back to you. Um it's not the end of the month. It is not at the end of the month. I'm sure it is much longer than that.

It generally is um for a longer period. I guess my concern is how fast do we need to move and and really I I I'm I'm a little bit confused maybe um why would somebody without any money want to demo something that they have to haul off that's going to cost them money. I understand what Duffy's talking about. It's more valuable if it's cleared, but somebody's got to pay to haul that building off.

And of course with all the environmental study environmental possibilities that are there, you know, and and is there time to salvage anything if it does happen? I just don't want to see it go. Um but that's my own personal feeling. So if you could I just think we need to know when the demolition permit expires. I know that the speakers talked about it. Yeah, I mean there's a change in plans.

I mean there's all these things are moving and the legal eagles are probably the ones that are working on it because they're the smart people. But I think we should do anything possible to preserve that building. Thank you. Well, I will say two things. I do still need to verify the actual date it expires. Um but the date that was referenced in public comment of planned demolition, they may not be the same date.

I believe that it the expiration date of the demolition permit is probably much farther in the future than the planned demolition. I I do not know the planned demolition date. That's not a requirement of the demolition permit that like I will require, you know, demolish this on X date. Um so I I am not privy to that information. Um and it could be subject to change. So just to um clarify that portion of it there, were you did you want to add something to that?

No, I was gonna try and um if I may um Chair Westimer, of course. Um so I think getting back to where we were starting the conversation of having a special meeting, date, time, location must be certain. We need to ensure we have it's a time where four or more of the commissioners can meet. Um, and then I need and then it sounds like there's some support for agendaizing it in a way that matches the enacting authority is what I have heard so far.

But I do need datetime location to be confirmed by the commission. I also does not have to be a motion I don't believe though I did just request that. Yeah, it says no motion. I was going to say it would also be very helpful and efficient and time productive if someone brought a letter. I don't know if we would like um uh that seems like work to put on Sarah and Lauren um to do it.

Um so I don't know if someone on [snorts] commission could volunteer um and provide it to us ahead of time so we can look it over and commission can provide guidance on whether or not we are actually acting and phrasing it in a way that constitutes our anyway. I just don't want to be sitting here for four hours or was as we're debating whether or not to start with dear or sincerely. Um so if we can start from something that would be great. It's definitely easier to edit than to compose.

So I mean I think if no one else wants to do it I'll work on something but if Gan wants to or two of us get together but I don't know when council member Hayes gets back. Um, but she should be given the opportunity to be in that quorum of people and I'm not sure when she returns. I don't know either. All she said was she couldn't make this meeting so I do not know her personal work schedule. I [laughter] But so I'm guessing it needs to be next week. We could we could schedule offline.

Um, Nancy could send out an email with like two or three available times in the chamber and you could respond individually, always remembering not to reply all. Um, and then we can go from there. So, we can send out an email in the morning if you'd like. And then, um, you can be where your calendars are, which may not be in front of you right now. Um, and we can try and find a time when a quorum is available. As I said, it'll also depend on room availability. Monday does look really open.

Um there's Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday evening meetings in the chambers for standing meetings. So just to make everyone aware, Jean, um and Alec, I don't know if you want to come, but can people give Well, we'll just come back to the schedule. And of course, we have to be following our enabling language. Um and this is educational. This is our role is to make sure that our decision makers are informed and make good decisions for our community.

Two final questions I have is do we know when city council is meeting next because I imagine we would want this done and before then Tuesday city council meets at 3 p.m. on Tuesdays. Is there a regular meeting? Um so Monday seems like it would be our best bet. Um, and then [clears throat] my other question is, can we make online an option still for that one? Absolutely. Okay.

Because that would be a lot easier for me to attend, especially if we're going to do it in the day because I we all work in some way or another. Yes. I like the idea of earlier in the day, like before lunch. I'm not available afternoon. And I know we weren't talking about our individual calendars, but um you know, just trying to do something more quickly and then I'd be happy to work on a letter to bring it to the meeting. Cool. Okay. Thanks. Thank you. All right.

So Sarah, do you have some direction? We're not trying to just make work for you. We're trying to do what we're supposed to do. Yes. On purpose. We'll so we'll send out the email tomorrow to try and confirm a time for targeting Monday. Um and we'll need to make sure that the agenda is out by the end of the day Friday. That'll be the cut off. Saturday counts as the 24 hours, but we don't work on Saturday. And then Sunday does not count according to the manual.

I'll see if I can get a hold of Commissioner Hayes. Are we all good on that? We have sort of a direction we're going. Thank you all very much for Sarah and Lauren for making this happen at the very last minute, but it's all happening very fast. And once something of value is gone, that's that's it. So, thank you all for stepping up to make stuff happen. And I also imagine as an official meeting, the public would also be invited to attend and comment.

Thank you for coming members of the public today. Okay, so that finishes item 7 C. Item 7D was offered by whatever word processor Sarah uses, so we'll just ignore that. And now we go to reports from Lauren. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. So now we're on to um reports. There are three approvals.

Um so the first is a cultural resource study letter report um for a vacant parcel that had not previously been surveyed and there um is a proposed residential development that I required um a survey and negative findings. So I approved the letter report um and so any questions on that? Fairly straightforward. Um, so then the phase 2 culture resource study for 418 South Laroo. This is the one I mentioned earlier. The commission approved this with conditions in November.

Um, and that and one of the conditions uh was that I could administratively approve the revised final revised copy after they made um, you know, several requested edits. Um, and they they did make those edits. So I approved and attached the final copy here. Some of there is additional uh mitigation that's still outstanding.

They were going to be creating a 3D model and that um will still still forthcoming to um back to the commission for as a later approval, but this is the final version of the phase 2 report. Um, and then, uh, the last one on here is a certificate of no effect for the 109 North Laroo Street property in the downtown overlay. Um, and this one Sarah actually uh reviewed as acting HBO while I was on vacation last month.

Um, and this one is a property adjacent to um, the property 111 North Laroo that was recently demolished. And um so the northern side of this property where the two buildings had been attached with mortar um when during the demolition there was essentially some of some of that was left. And so, um, as the certificate states, the building was, um, was cleaned.

And although technically you could have considered this under maybe the the previous certificate approval, um, as a different, um, property owner and proponent, the new certificate was submitted. So, any questions on any of the three approval items? Um, and the 8B is consultations. Um, a the FCC would like to put in a Monopine Tower at Kinsey Elementary School um and submitted some section 106 consultation asking for um to see if as HPO I had any concerns with known properties in the area.

Um, and I do not. Thank you, Lauren. All right. Uh that was 8B and now we're on to nine. Item nine which is miscellaneous items to and from commission members. Anyone have anything? I have a few announcements if if we are ready please. So uh first Caitlyn Stewart was appointed last night by city council to be our seventh um yeah commissioner.

So, uh, Caitlyn, um, haven't seen all the onboarding stuff come through yet from the city clerk's office, but I would anticipate that Caitlyn would be able to join us next month. Um, so, and that is filling the vac vacancy from um, Commissioner uh, Burch. So, and I also I forwarded you all an email earlier today um, about the Arizona Preserve America Youth Summit.

Um, so a few of you commissioners participated last year when the youth summit was in town in June and they are coming back again this year and are putting out um you materials and applications to solicit middle school and high school students to participate in the youth summit. Um this is a totally free opportunity for the students. Um so feel free to share wi with your with your networks.

I don't know um you know exactly what the agenda is going to be um for the students but I believe it's June 1st through 4th um and that they provide meals um hotel travel although I would imagine most folks are are coming from Flagstaff but all of that is is paid for. So yeah so let me know if you have any questions um and feel free to share that.

And I just wanted uh to do a reminder that next month we are going to do the building tour of um the Babbot building downtown um at Aspen in San Francisco. And I sent out that was David Stevens, the property owner, had come a couple meetings ago and offered to do this and then we had arranged the meeting time and I did send out a separate meeting invitation for that one. So everybody knows about that. So, just a reminder, let me know if you have any questions.

And um today I received um an offer to do another tour of the restoration work ongoing at the Rearen Mansion if the commission is interested. Um and so thought I would throw that out there. Um and also, yeah, think about availability. We don't need to necessarily decide tonight, too. um it sounds like pretty very open um in terms of days of the week and schedule.

So if there are some general preferences um and I assume since we're already doing one tour in February, maybe later in the year, um I don't think there's a specific time limit [laughter] on when we could do this. So maybe, you know, in the spring or um early summer, but if anyone has any specific ideas, I I could bring that back um to to work on scheduling.

Lauren, would you please let the new commissioner know that that we're not going to have the normal meeting time next month so that she can think ahead about that? Thanks. And we are still going to meet here at 4. It's just Yeah, the original. And I will Thank you. I will make sure that our new commissioner is included on the extra um extra agenda item. Okay. Are we done? Can we can we call it birthday party time? All right.

The commission heritage preservation commission meeting on January 21st, 2026 ends at 5:21 p.m. Chair, I think it's actually 5:39 p.m. because remember that that clock is slow. I re I correct 5:30. Is it now 40? Yeah. No, it says 39, right? Okay. 5:39 p.m. on January. Sorry. That's okay.