Planning Commission Approves Residential Conversion, Blocks C2 Rezoning for Golf Cart Display—Backs Narrower Text Amendment Instead

e e e United States commissioner Corey here commissioner kovic here commissioner schlosberg here commissioner seum here Vice chairman Watts here and and commissioner um depa and chairman gray are absent they're not listed on the agenda um they weren't they weren't ready they weren't ready from the verbatim transcriber yes next meeting back no chair yes chair on a property located at 16622 East Avenue venue of the fountain John all yours good evening Commissioners uh welcome this evening got several fun items for you to consider this evening the first is a special use permit to allow residential use in a commercial zoning District this is just across the street here from town hall in part of plat 208 the area is zoned C2 with the entertainment e with the planned shopping plaza the PSP overlay districts each allow kind of some different activities to happen within the C District this area is planted in 1971 this lot was developed sometime in late 1982 uh it's was developed as an office building with eight office suites currently four of the units on the back of the property have been converted into uh hotel rooms the the stoning District allows for residential use on the second floor by right and up to eight dwelling units per acre the request for the Su they want to turn the two Hotel units on the ground floor to Apartments so that requires a special use permit but also uh with the increase in the number of units it exceeds the eight dwelling units breaker so for both of those reasons they have requested the special use permit so again uh this is the area the uh mostly C2 uh zoning in the area little C3 we have the Keystone pad and the town Cent Center District a little to the East and the basic Landes pattern in the area I have the town hall campus here the post office across the way there's some residential mixed use with the Parkplace otherwise uh primarily office and Commercial activities the general plan uh has a number of statements that we feel are applicable to the request we are looking for a variety of housing options uh in the town and encouraging a wide range of housing types that address different needs uh that the community may have and then uh in the Town Center area looking for an integrated mix of uses provide for a vibrant uh Town Center area the zoning ordinance with regard to special use permits you've seen this a lot lately uh section 202 f1d sets forth the criteria that the commission is supposed to take into consideration in granting approval of a special use permit highlighted the key e key phrase there that the proposed Su would not be detrimental to public health safety peace Comfort welfare a person residing or working in the neighborhood and such use will not be detrimental injurious to property or improvements in the neighborhood or the general Ware of the town so looking at each of those phrases uh individually will a proposed residential use be detrimental public health safety peace or comfort of the neighborhood uh the ReUse of this building for residential purposes is unlikely to have a detrimental impact we feel uh on the neighborhood uh three more uh five residential units in the area we don't get would have that type of impact we'll allowing residential use of this property would be detrimental to current commercial property or commercial property improvements the existing uh Urban environment lends itself really to providing this type of a mix of uses and allowing the residential uh mix having additional residents uh in the area can help provide customers for the retail entertainment as well as potential workers uh in those businesses we're aware of and working with plat 208 in uh some potential conflicts that could happen there uh the plat 208 area wasn't really set up to allow a lot of residential use in the way the parking's laid out uh and without specific designated parking and also uh the way the solid waste is hand handled uh works fine for commercial May create some challenges for residential but those are things that we're aware of and think we can can work through and then we'll uh allowing the res residential use create a desirable living environment that supports the general welfare of the town again we're looking at a urban living environment that does typically mix those uses we have other examples within the plateau 8 area itself as well as across the street with a Parkplace development with ground floor uh commercial and Upper Floor residential we feel like uh again this is workable in this area helps bring that balance of housing and Commercial needs we have the walkable streets and amenities in this area that make this at appropriate use the applicant is required to provide a good neighbor statement with a special use permit and so that was included in your packet uh they will uh work to be responsible uh considerate neighbors and provide proactive communication if there are any concerns they did hold citizen participation process and seek input from uh the surrounding Property Owners they had no one to attend their specific meeting we did receive an email supporting but bringing up some questions about the integration of uses and that was included in an email to you after you received your packet so you've had that so in summary uh we feel like the proposed request meets the requirements stated in the zoning ordinance will provide additional support for downtown businesses provide a variety of housing options therefore staff does recommend approval any questions of me Commissioners any questions commissioner Cory the applicant is available for presentation yes John U with Shay and the development across the street um he wanted the last time through to have all res presidential if I remember right and I believe we held um we held that that he had to have retail on the first floor is is that correct uh Vice chair commissioner kov seic he did submit a request for an amendment to the DA um to eliminate the requirement that ultimately was dropped uh we didn't ultimately get maybe a firm answer to that question because he he um withdrew the request I don't remember at this point what the pnz commission had said about that proposal at the time so does he or does he not have any first floor residential in this building there will still be first floor residential um facing the street on with this request yeah but Shay does not so his proposed building does have ground floor retail facing the Street yes Shay does yes yes the the building that's proposed it not built yet that's the one you're talking about yeah yeah Building E does building F does not but it wasn't required to okay um so and this and this proposal also has first floor residential facing the Avenue yes it keeps the two Suites on the on the first floor along the Avenue as uh commercial what I'm confused if you I think if you go back to the slide I think the the slide is misleading at the very beginning that's because I think it's written wrong because the two Suites are going to remain commercial and I believe what it says is unless I read it wrong is just yeah two dwelling units on the first floor that's not correct there there there will be two on the first floor I guess I'll did leave out a piece because there are four Suites on the first floor two in the back will be residential and two in the front will be commercial that was my question so the ones on the parking lot will be residential the ones on the Avenue will be commercial sorry for that confusion I left that out that's yeah that's my that's my question um is there okay that's good that's it Mr SCH did you that was it okay uh John I see that the recommendation is somewhat based upon SE plat 208 and cooperating with the trash enclosure and the parking spaces what do you think the success of that will be considering how difficult 208 is going to be or has been uh Vice chair in our discussions to date we really don't see any significant issues uh my discussions with the members of the board for plate to8 uh they're not seeing this as a challenge they really think everything has pretty well been worked out particularly with the parking the trash is the last thing that's why we did I did include that in my staff report to make sure we do have that ironed out before we get to issuing a building permit okay and then as I read this it's for a total of is it a total of five residential units correct two down and three up but but it's not eight because somewhere over there's reference right there there are eight um eight dwelling units that that are allowed there are four they're eight office suites currently four down and four up I believe is correct they're currently they're four office suites down four office suites up right on the ground floor they're taking already converted two of the office s to the hotel and those will become residential the other two office suites on the ground floor will stay commercial on the Upper Floor they've got the two Hotel units that will become residential and the other two office suites are combining in one so there'll be three Suites upstairs three residential upstairs two down okay total of five residentials still two commercial facing the Avenue corre that's correct okay um then it's is my questions Commissioners any other questions yeah would you I'm seeing one more so so this is the equivalent of 36 dwelling units an acre right just and the most intense multif family residential zoning that we have in our ordinances is 25 I believe that's correct and and we've made exceptions for on the other side of the street we've made an exception at the targets those are up at 45 yes the ordinance um so is he doing uh um what are we I'm used to PUD what's our term for it P pad yeah right is there there's well he's not doing a development so there wouldn't be a pad right okay but he's 10 units an acre above our maximum zoning intensity correct for multif family corre okay but John along those lines the assumption is that there's be available space in the parking area that is governed by 208 that's correct actually the the parking demand is less for the residential than you would we would calculate for the commercial right and so you all those things are already handled office suite tenants have used the parking lots they've used the the solid waste containers and so forth so it's just a different type of user using the same things that are there again with the solid waste residential use of those is maybe a little bit different a little bit more intense potentially and so that's why I had a little bit more concern there um John what so how is the parking Arrangement going to be worked out I mean you said there's some discussion going on what what's your idea of how this is going to be resolved uh Vice chair commissioner applicant can maybe explain some of that a little bit better on the details but part of the issue is traditionally they have not allowed overnight parking yeah you have a resident you're can have overnight parking residents sometimes want to have guaranteed parking spaces close by to the door and they're not going to be able to do that so those are just things that that the tenants are going to have to understand as they move in so there's no exceptions that are going to be provided with that not that I'm aware of okay John how about the exception for covered parking I thought residential required covered parking uh vice vice chair I'm glad you were thinking about that that is something that that we have discussed as staff and whether or not we should somehow address that in these types of requests given that everything is already built and that the person asking for this request doesn't own the property with the uh with the parking requirement where the parking is we chose not to uh uh pursue that but that is something that the commission felt strongly about because today as you know with the change of the parking ordinance we do require covered parking for residential we also required covered parking for office and so if an office were to change out are we going now require them to P in covered parking for the office again given the ownership of the parking is different than the ownership of the buildings that'd be a pretty tough request so we felt like we didn't need to pursue that okay brick one other thing so there there's been this has been used as a boutique hotel correct and hotels don't require covered parking no so so we're still in a residential a longer term residential situation and the park the cover parking requirement kicks in right that that's a new requirement that's just been in place for less than a year pardon that's a new requirement that's just been in place for less than a year okay so if it was rented every night of the year it would it would be very similar to having a annual tenant in there anyway so thanks Commissioners any other questions or can we hear from the applicant let's hear from the applicant please all yours Vladimir uh Commissioners um Vladimir and I this time I'm operating a hotel Boutique and uh I'm looking to convert to two bedrooms two bath Condominiums excuse me can you speak into the mic cuz the audience is having a hard time hearing thank you my name is Vladimir bu I'm the resident of uh Fountain Hills for the past uh 30 years and uh I'm operating a hotel Boutique at the 16622 E Avenue of the fountains and I'm ask uh uh the commission to support my project in conversion to condomines I'd be more than happy to answer any questions that you may have Comm go ahead is this a condominium that you're you're developing or these are these going to be rental rental units or are they going to be sold uh they some of it be going to own and continue operate rate and some would be sold because there's a interest so they' be sold to um owner occupied or they being sold for vacation rentals or owner occupied or vacation rental is there any preclusion of that um in the zoning Vice chair commissioner though there's not a preclusion of that they would have to go through a plating process to create the separate ownership possibility I'm sorry I missed the last part have to go through they have to Plat it as a condominium there' be that but that would be possible but there would be no there would be no restrictions from a from a vbo versus full-time resident uh no and John would that be if we run away would that be a special use permit and as an overlay and would stay with that owner or would how would the transition be when you had to go through a zoning change so Vice chair I would probably have to think through that a little bit maybe examine the zoning ordinance a little bit it's first I've heard about about that idea of them being sold separately and then possibly used for um a short-term rental but any residential unit through State Statute can be used as a short-term rental and so we have limited control there um and particularly in a C2 District where hotels they use by right again I don't think there would be anything that we would would have to control that okay Comm I guess my question is what I'm sorry no go if if if you're not going to be selling or leasing to longer term tenants why are you changing the the the um the process why are you changing the use of it the current zoning I guess I don't understand why you're changing from a from a hotel because that's effectively what a BRBO can be look at from the investment uh from the investment uh we like to sell couple and continue ownership of couple okay Comm Cory yes thank you yes I think what you're saying is you're trying to transition that to ownership of the the new occupant versus you owning it and managing all of that so I understand that uh blad wear how long have you owned the property for I purchased uh in June of uh okay okay so it's fairly recent um I heard something come up about parking um so with the way that you've been running it lately has parking been an issue have has any of the renters complained that there wasn't any parking or any lack of parking we have uh 2,000 parking spaces for plate 208 we supposed to share okay so so there is no designated parking space per se but they seem to have been able to find something that was available there was available especially in the evenings okay and I had a chance to go and look at the property this afternoon too and there there is a lot of parking there so that wouldn't be a concern um okay um thank you I think that you know I I I am definitely for this one um and I think that the important thing to note here is this this really does balance out uh what we have across the street over at Parkplace you know we're looking at the same exact thing so I think when we can look at doing this across the street it makes sense um I don't think density is an issue the infrastructure can support it I don't think there's going to be any traffic issues since we're we already use this this way um and there's no environmental impact so um I'm definitely for making this making this change and approving this for Vladimir um so just that's my take on it any other comments Commissioners yeah I will uh I'll follow up on commissioner Corey uh I visited the property as well and inside and out and the uh not that this has to do with pnz but the I mean these units are spectacular the ones that are there already ready I mean I was I was very impressed so assuming the new unit on the second floor is going to going to be as nice as the ones well on the other side it uh very well done and I think it's nice compliment I didn't even know what the badier was to be honest with you until I went and visited this property so I think it's it's a good value ad for the for the Avenue for sure so I think I have a tendency to agree my only thought was the parking is normally the parking wouldn't be an issue unless we have an event and I think about the fairs and so on so how are you going to manage parking spaces that are not dedicated because you just said they're open to anybody anytime anywhere how do you protect those parking spaces for the residents us when they have events and we had several of them uh and uh usually the property owners designating some a parking space in front of their buildings for customers only for example the restaurants are doing it and uh I didn't do anything uh this year yet but we have a event coming up so therefore I'm going to and I spoke to Betsy about that uh chamber and she supports that too because that's uh the uh previous uh experience and uh a working relationship between the chamber the art project and uh property owners and business okay any other comments Commissioners okay Paul do we have any speaker cards we do we have two written cards four that support the project and then we have four speaker cards and I'll name them in order uh Joel schaer up to the podium please and then behind Joel will be Jared uh steres thank you my name is Joel schaer and I'm a 22y year resident of Fountain Hills uh my business background uh is mostly in golf operations I was the general manager at Sunridge Canyon Golf Club from 2003 to 2010 and managed some other golf courses in Scottdale and Mesa uh last five years I've been in real estate and property management and uh I am here to support the project at the B beler uh I think it's the perfect blend of residential and Commercial uh and serves a purpose on the Avenue the four existing Suites are as Scott mentioned they're beautiful Clayton you've seen them beautiful very well done and uh I think it's a again a perfect complement uh to what the uh the essence of the Avenue uh by converting uh rezoning uh it gives Vladimir the option to sell s off some of those suits as Condominiums which as a developer uh you always want to have that option and uh my involvement is I am helping with uh the real estate aspect uh along with the rentals and they are serving as furnished vacation rentals now and and people are enjoying them thoroughly uh behind the property again there's there's so much parking I I've been a resident a long time been to the parade been to the uh the Thanksgiving parade and uh art festivals and and I I personally have never seen an issue with parking I always am able to get a parking spot back there so uh again I'm here in support of rezoning from uh uh where they're at now to residential and uh giving Vladimir uh his options as a developer thank you hello commission uh my name is Jared Sterns and I just wanted to voice my support to transition the boutique hotels to residential um I might voice a unique opinion on that I am the one who currently leases the commercial space down below and just wanted to voice like the parking situations and everything with it being a boutique hotel um several months now we haven't had an issue with parking you know there been Park parking on the Avenue there been parking in the back but overall there's not been an issue that we have to go talk to people or anything like that and I do believe Vladimir as the owner and the developer of that has done a good job of telling the people and directing them what to do so but uh again just wanted to voice my support for it and show that uh you know the person actually renting the commercial space I'm glad you made that clear I was like h i they transitioning that front to residential do not need to worry so thank you for that but uh been no issue there and I think it's done it's been done great so thank you next speaker is sentar did you want to speak oh okay Larry Meyers chair Commissioners Larry Meers 43 years um predate most of the stuff that's built on the Avenue so my question got as answered by Vladimir I'm a proponent of condos I'm not a proponent of rentals so to speak overwhelming the town with them condos their ownership rentals the town receives nothing from because we're no longer going to get a sales tax revenue the short-term rental thing ah you know what if you own unit you get to do with it what you want and it's you can do it in a house you can do it what wherever you want to do it so that's fine as long as you keep the commercial on the first floor on the Avenue like we made Mr Shay do when he didn't want to do it he's acquiesced and he has commercial on the first floor it's provides everything that everybody always says they want walkability if you want to put an apartment somewhere put it in downtown Fountain Hills instead of in a shopping center on Shea Boulevard um I do look further than the end of my nose though when I examine things and what if more people wanted to do the exact same thing down the Avenue then what happens to the parking because Fountain Hills has a history of looking right here just like they did in 1999 when they built a defunct shopping center instead of a corporate headquarters and now you have what you have a big fight amongst residents and so I look at this Avenue and I say okay upstairs H if I own the next building down would I want to do it and then what happens to the parking and then what happens to the trash and then what happens so I would prefer to look a little further down and maybe think about those things in the grand scheme of the entire District as opposed to it's fine for Vladimir's one building what about the guy next door and then the guy next door to that and the guy next door to that because I can guarantee you it'll be coming because if you don't fill the commercial Suites then you got to make money as an investor it's your property so I would prefer a little further discussion down the road but I'm I'm in favor of this it works just as good as B across the street thanks next speaker Daniel Kobe good evening my name is Daniel Kobe and I'm familiar with the building and I think it's a quality project and and i would support it because it adds value to the town of Fountain Hills and there's a shortage of a need for for residential and it's a quality project and I see it as being adding value to Fountain Hills I don't think there's any issue that it's not a quality project those that have visited have a knowledge that and I think it's important for the town of Fountain Hills to support the residents that are living here enjoying the benefits of Fountain Hills and you have to go so far out other than fire rock which is very high end which is a great asset to have for Fountain Hills but for a practicality and especially because when you think about what's taking place at the Fountain Hills has did a very smart thing uh uh with the new Observatory that's coming in here that's going to be bringing people from all over the world here you're going to have people interested in the space you're going to have NASA officials people that are inven uh they're very interested in astronomy and things and it's an educational opportunity so many people are going to take advantage of it and they need a place to stay high quality and when you're short of a high quality you want to support it as being directors of this community and I'm proud of what you're you're doing and I think it's a good idea so if you have any other questions I love Fountain Hills is a great City up here and I'd like to see more cooperation with the with the residents here to be perfectly candidate with you and the businesses because this here is going to be a landmark location throughout the United States and you've worked hard to develop what you have here already the fountain is great good operation and people come from afar to come here to visit it so I think when you support the community making things available to the people that want to enjoy what you have here and what you brought here and it was your efforts that allowed this so I would continue the support that's all I have to say if you have any questions I'm happy to answer them no chair yeah one for another one for John do what Assurance are are are we approving the site plan as the is petitioner locked into the site plan uh Vice chair commissioner the building is not changing exterior so there's while there is technically a site plan the site plan's the existing building all the changes are on the interior and they're requesting up to five residential units they've got four currently and so their one change is going to be to take two Suites upstairs and convert them into one uh if they decide to just do something different than that so they still end up with five dwelling units they can do that with the approval they can't get six so if somebody came along and said I want these two units in the back petitioner by right could put two residential units in the front on the Avenue no cuz it is specific also to that regard that it's just two downstairs and the four the three upstairs and maintaining the have to be they have to be in the back in the back there there's no no wiggle room there to to change no yeah all right I I want to um I am cons concerned about the density but we've already made that exception in town across the street so so I I mean it's it's hard to say um that I want to stick to our ordinances when we when right across the street they've already made they're already at 45 units an acre right yes and um I don't like making the exception for we not having covered parking back there but I'm willing to go along with the commission I'm not uh yeah I'm not going to uh stand alone on that hill so um but that's where I'm at I as long as he can't change the location of the residential units to on the Avenue that's correct commissioner John just just so I understand the parking situation is there overnight parking allowed in that plat 28 or not uh Vice chair commissioner again that gets a little bit outside my my specific knowledge uh to comment on very far but it's my understanding in my discussions with the plat 208 Representatives that their I'll say bylaws whatever documents they have do not allow for overnight parking they are already allowing overnight parking as a reality with with other the uses and they're working with that and and understand how they need to adjust their regulations to provide for it so there be there are some discussions still going on uh as far as the density is concerned I have I have no no problem at all whether it turned out to be 50 units 60 units I mean because of the the building this the design itself I'll choose design over density I think it's a great project I really do I I just didn't want to get into a kind of a slippery slope with this parking and all of a sudden this becomes a huge issue for his buyers or his renters or whoever because the bylaws now are going to be enforced so I guess there's risk there but that's going to be his risk correct okay and John just to be clear the notion that this would be a domino effect going down the Avenue from One retail or operations to the next to the next to the next isn't really valid it's only the retail has to stay on the bottom residential can be on the top and in this particular case case because of the uniqueness of the property with the residential being in the back as well as on the top is why we're considering but it won't have a domino effect in the future any one of those would have to come back to the Planning and Zoning for approval and the likelihood of us approving that commissioner kovic's point would be remote if anything so am I clear on that uh Vice chair maybe I'll say it a little bit differently um so maybe if the mouse going to work here so you are going to potentially be seen sometime in the next few months the mouse went away again there it's back uh a request for this property for some ground floor commercial and two floors of residential above but that's by right no it's going to exceed the the density allowance again of the density currently a set at 8 units breaker that's really only one unit in any of these 6,000 ft lots and so we've approved other sus along here for that because you exceed that eight units very quickly um and so you probably will see more of these and so plat 208 again is supportive of bringing in the residential because they see the need for the overall balance and residential the parking demand for residential is actually less than the commercial so it balances in that regard it's kind of the question though where is that in relationship to the units that's what kind of becomes the question over time compared to what you would normally see in a uh development that started with the idea it's going to have that mix and how it would work out but we're still not setting a precedent to put residential on the Avenue and we're right as far as ground floor facing the Avenue no we're absolutely not doing that and have no intent to do that ground floor on the Avenue okay Commissioners any other questions I'll entertain a motion all right I will make a motion to approve special use permit to allow residential use on property located at 16622 East Avenue The Fountains second second okay call Paul would you uh do a roll call please commissioner Corey I commissioner kovas hi commissioner sber I commissioner St I Vice chairman Watts Hi 5 Z okay I think you're up again John so item number five consideration of possible action to rezone approximately 0.69 Acres located at 15225 North Fountain Hills Boulevard Northeast corner of Fountain Hills Boulevard and Glenn B Glenn Brook Boulevard from C1 neighborhood commercial and professional zoning District to C2 intermediate commercial zoning District all yours that's a m okay thank you Mr chair uh so as stated we're looking at property that's at the northeast corner of Glenbrook and Fountain Hills Boulevard this property was uh plat 430 planted in 1972 first buildings in this area were built the early 1980s and there's been really no additional development within this area since 2006 it's a corner lot of the overall development that's proposing uh the rezoning from the C1 to the C2 the rest of uh the plat 430 would stay in the C1 zoning district and here is the zoning map that shows uh the area and so again the subject property the C1 surrounding it you can see the variety of other zoning districts in the area um cc to the South residential to the west and the East and the land uses uh in the area uh there's existing building on the property that has had a variety of uses in it over the years uh uh been vacant a number of times the current use of this building uh is the uh the golf cart business some restaurants daycare churches uh surrounding the property then again residential a little further out rezoning is is a request at this point I'm going to jump ahead just a little bit the uh with the next item on your agenda but these do need to be considered separately there is uh the golf cart business that's in operation in the building has been there for a year more or less uh one of the challenges that he's had is in order to attract attention to his business he likes to put the golf carts out in the parking lot the C1 zoning District does not allow outdoor display uh of this nature uh in order to have the carts outside he needs the C2 zoning and then get approval of the special use permit so that's the the reason for the request for the rezoning and so as we look at the current zoning District the C1 you can see U what its intent is and highlighted uh kind of the key intent of the the C1 zoning District here and then the C2 zoning District that's being requested is a step up in terms of the intensity the nature of uses and what its intent is uh within uh the community I included in your report a full list of the types of uses that get added when we move from C1 to C2 and the thing that the commission needs to remember we have the existing use that's there today in the request to continue that use but once the property is rezoned and it's more than just a suite that he is Opera in that get rezoned that the golf cart business could go away and any of these other uses come in and so that's what you need to consider is not the use that's there today but the things that can happen uh in the proposed zoning District so again this is a partial List complete list was in your staff report of the types of of things that now get introduced and would be allowed uh in the area that's not only some of the uses themselves but uh you'll recall in the C1 zoning District to operate after 11:00 p.m.

or before 7:00 a.m.

requires a special use permit and in the C1 District you can't have outdoor patios and some of those uses drive through Windows without a special use permit those things would all become uh uses and activities by right in the C2 oops I hit the wrong direction and so as we look at the general plan uh for uh this area it's in a mixed neighborhood designation uh so primarily residential but it anticipates that there can be some uh commercial type uses as well as other you know churches parks and those types of things when we look at this specific location uh the general plan uh has the statements here about these uh small commercial areas that we have that are within neighborhoods they need to remain uh low density uh and that they would U be things that would support the uh residential area that surrounds it so the review and Analysis here the general plan again recommends uh this area stay a low intensity commercial area uh Redevelopment in infill uh would need to protect the existing neighborhood on the one hand the C2 will increase the allowed uses in the areas some of which you may find are not necessarily compatible with the area but on the other hand it has been a struggling Center to maintain tenants by rezoning to C2 and opening up the number of tenants that could go in uh the building it may be a more successful Center because it could attract tenants it's not able to attract today they did hold their citizen participation meeting uh they did not have anyone attend staff has not had any contacts uh either for or against this from any of the surrounding Property Owners uh staff does however recommend denial of this request we feel that the change in intensity in this location uh would not be appropriate for the surrounding neighborhood and would not be uh consistent with the direction of the general plan any questions you have about the resonant portion of this Commissioners commissioner cor yes all right thank you John so this basically came to light because the um the owners of the golf cart store are looking to put their golf carts out front on display for sale that's why we kind of have both of these items here right correct because do we either approve a special use permit discuss that or do the rezone that's why this is here right Vice chair commissioner they need the rezone before you can consider the use per it's not either or they have to rezone because a C1 zoning District does not allow the outdoor display even with the use permit the C1 does not allow the outdoor display okay right okay even though uh all right I'm just I I did drive by here earlier today as well and I I see a couple of golf carts out there and to me it just it's a parking lot and if there weren't golf carts in the parking lot there would be cars in the parking lot so um I think that I would like to talk about the special use permit and how we could help them with allowing them to have some sort of thing on display to help them with the sales um just driving by and seeing those three golf carts that are out there didn't seem to me like it was detrimental to the neighborhood but I think rezoning it to C2 like you guys recommended would be a major change that would be that would be too impactful to the residential areas around it so that's kind of what I'm thinking commissioner K yeah I and I agree with commissioner Corey I think we want to help the business owner um in any way we can um could you bring back up the slide on the uses let me's see which way is that um this one well yeah and and the substance abuse or addiction treatment doesn't that have a distance it has to be away from a school or a church um no not this one I don't believe I I'll look at it real quick and see but I don't believe this one does there are other aspects of that that does have the separation requirements or I can look that up here in a minute if you want to ask other questions and I know you had like rifle range members only rifle ranges and stuff doesn't that have to be so many feet away from a school or a church especially a school I don't believe we had that on on the rifle range the indoor gun ranges you see the only separation requirement is for a substance abuse Treatment Center is 2,000 ft from any other detox subst or substance abuse uh center it's not have does not have a separation from churches or schools or anything like that so I yeah how we need we so can we um what means can what other means can we use to help the the business owner the other only other option really in this case would be an amendment to the zoning ordinance so that we allow the outdoor display in the C1 and what's what's that take well that takes similar process to any any zoning to uh come up with the amendment advertise it process it through pnz and Council get their approval I'm going to pass for now go ahead commissioner Cory on on that note could it be a special permit for this one business where if the business changed hands to a different type of business it wouldn't roll over it seems to be very specific to what they're looking to do so uh Vice chair commissioner Corey are you talking about in terms of we were to amend the ordinance and what it would allow for yes we could make that as specific or broad as we would decide to make it at the time but it would be for example if we were to say golf carts can be displayed then anybody selling golf carts could display them in the C1 zon District anywhere okay the easier we can make this the better off will be commissioner sler yeah and I think you're on the right track there so how many golf carts would be out there at one time I mean is there any so if we want maybe to jump ahead again uh briefly to the second request um as uh and and staff agrees the golf cart business there except for the issue we've had about him displaying we have no issues with it and don't see it having a negative impact and so we we're supportive of the East permit if we if we get to that point uh but when I look at the technical requirements of the ordinance in terms of the number of parking spaces required for the building size and the use of the building and put that against number of available parking spaces I see one space being available for uh display based on the required parking so that would potentially be part of a text amendment that would also then if it's golf carts adjust the the parking requirement a little bit so that that was a bit more reasonable in this case commissioner K can we bring up the site plan it's not a very detailed site plan because again they are yeah um no I get that I but I don't have a very Det detailed question is the park the there's a parking lot behind the building that is talking about this parking lot yeah to the east so if I is do they have any rights to that [Music] no okay that's my question Mr Sam the uh the own are the owners here yes that here yes um I'm just curious about the the the business the way it's conducted are most of your customers that wholesale or would you like me would you like commissioner we're gonna we'll call the applicant up on we're done with John oh they mind John I'm going to go down a different rabbit hole that property has had jazzer size martial arts numerous restaurants all that I believe in total exceeded the parking requirement and I'm not sure how they did that so that's that's one so I'm more of an advocate for supporting the conversion from C1 to C2 and my question really then goes to the second part this the Su that Su stays with the owner of the building or with the applicant if we were to approve it uh Vice chair once it's approved and established in this case it's already established because the business is there then it runs with the land with the land so the owner of the building would have to change ownership to lose the Su so the the um owner of the the business would have to shut down for a period of time I think it's six months and then the Su would be lost and a new owner would have to reestablish it but this this owner of the golf cart could sell to a different golf cart business and they could just continue right on with operation but my understanding also is that that the ebike shop and the golf cart shop have co-owners so to speak there is an owner's interest in both are we taking into account only the footprint for the golf cart or are we taking into account the joint ownership between the ebikes so I would assume that if the golf carts were allowed out the ebikes would want to be out more in the Public's eye as well so uh Vice chair some of that's a better question for the applicant I believe it is the case that the sweets and involed here 3 four and five are are combined and use for both the ebikes and the golf cart um we don't because the ebikes are a smaller type of vehicle they're not specifically covered at this time in the zoning ordinance in terms of display or not display and so if they want to put their ebikes out um to a limited degree that's fine depends on how they're get impacting parking or circulation in some way but there on the patio the covered area yeah so that's so but I still have a hard time understanding we've put restaurants in there and restaurants have packed that entire parking lot and they've only been a small portion of the entire strip and we didn't seem to have this the same angst about parking spaces and now we're saying they could only put one golf cart out because of the parking spaces how can we accommodate the C2 so that they can have more than one cart out and again in the spirit of helping the business owner as well as meeting the the parking how can we do that uh chair or vice chair again I think that would be as we if we go the route of a text amendment to allow for display in the C1 we would also need to look at the parking requirements and and and divide out maybe golf carts and other types of uh vehicle uh parking requirements vehicle dealership parking requirements because that's what we're applying right now that's all we have and that requires a higher level of parking than just the typical uh retail commercial it's less than restaurants so again I don't know what they did back in the 80s or whenever this was developed in terms of their parking requirements then uh that maybe it is underp parked but for just a a standard um 1 for 250 foot uh strip commercial center this is adequately parked well what's the easier way to go to to amend C1 one or to move to C2 uh make a motion to move to C2 and then have an amendment to that motion that says we can exceed the parking requirements as are stipulated for C2 today um I don't believe this commission has the authority to do that that would again it's either text Amendment or variance by the board of adjustment to a standard of the ordinance okay commissioner Co how long would a text Amendment take well um what's the shortest timeline a shortest timeline would be to have it back to you at your November meeting and to Council in December that would be the shortest is that possible maybe I'd have to look at a calendar um we do have other things on our plate to be working on um but still it could be done in a matter of you know four to six months I would think at the outside yeah but six months then we kind of blown the whole season so that's not good I mean I again it interest the state I don't like going to C2 and allowing those uses across the street from churches and schools I don't I don't I just I don't like that um I would well I want to help the business owner I want to go the route of C1 with a text Amendment allowing outdoor parking for the vehicles um but I um boy I hate to blow six months so anything we can do to accelerate that timeline I really would um urge so Comm why don't we talk to the applicant and see if they have they can accommodate that hi evening evening Paula Richards on behalf of Fountain Hills Golf Carts so I had a statement to read but you guys have essentially expressed everything that I had in my statement um of how essentially the ordinances wouldn't allow us under a C1 to apply for a special use permit and that C2 was pretty intense um use for what we're looking to do um for just basically displaying golf carts during business hours it's not to basically create an automobile lot to have them 24 hours a day there it's really just to be out there during business hours and we're only looking to put four to five vehicles outside in addition to just to make it look like we're busy the my normal customer base is three to four customers on a given day so so I got 39 spaces open uh 36 are empty yeah um there hasn't been any other tenants in this um particular location um he occupies three of the Suites um and has just started with the ebikes as part of Fountain Hills Golf Carts um as you guys probably know um there was a bike shop that's been there for many many many years and you know they were allowed to display their ebikes out in front they were allowed to wash Vehicles they were allowed to do maintenance on the V on their on their um bicycles they even had people actually staying in the parking lot um while they would go you know ride down to McDow Mountain Park so we're really essentially asking for some of the same kind of luxury of being able to display golf carts during business hours um and you know we haven't had um anybody in the community that has objected to it um I actually went um within that 300t radius and actually spoke to people at the churches and the other businesses around and nobody seemed to have a problem with wanting with allowing us to display those golf carts I I've donated golf carts to the churches to the uh schools to many events in within the town get along with every in the high school for home every year so um so we love this community and we want to be a part continue to be a part of this community and raise revenue for this community we are also residents of this community and we live about a mile away but um most of my customers come from Trilogy right so Comm Cory do you have a question it was oh yeah I I have a question for you what um what percentage of your sales come January February March April what's that the percentage of sales um basically starting right about now through about May 100% of the sales happen now okay um in the season obviously when the weather's great when people are here um especially um from that area of re ver tono Verity and Trilogy that is growing so much um they they come here right they come here to shop they come here you know to buy golf carts for that community that they live in um a few of you guys tell they can't see it they have no idea they come by and they get they you know we realize you know the selling needs to be inore and will I'm just trying toct little the that goes by so John a question for you is there another mechanism that we can use to address something like a variance for C1 that we could expedite in some manner or get it in front of Town Council so they could approve it or an alternate mechanism that you know of uh Vice chair uh no not really I think if there was one we would have tried to use that because as I said earlier we see no specific problems with the business so we're supportive by it being there too uh but we had no way of getting there in the current code except for this way that's been proposed so we're left with we have to move to C2 in order to get the special use permit this special use allow for it yes sir okay commissioner Cory yes now that John's up here thank you so much John what prompted us to pull this out and have to look at this because I you know I drove by today and I think there's a couple maybe three golf carts that are out there on display right now one in the front and then two kind of closer to like the entrance of the doors so you and you don't notice on that much so Vice chair commissioner don't need to uh belabor this point but we have issued several notice of violations and and citations to the property owner to address the issue of the vehicles being parked outside and that's part part of what prompted him to make the application I see code enforcement that was my question okay okay thank you Commissioners any other oh commissioner s and and this is u a problem because it's their product and not their vehicles that they drive back and forth to work um yes it's display of vehicles for sale uh in the parking lot is there not allowed time limit that they could be parked outside not under the current code pardon not under the current code okay zero time cor correct commissioner Cory so I'm just thinking back to the how how you have them arranged right now there's one on the parking lot and then there's two I think that are maybe like on the sidewalk by the door so given that the bike shop was there for so many years with the bikes on the sidewalk is that something that's kind of grandfathered into that area where they could display the golf cart it's not a car it's smaller so it can kind of fit up there the way the other two are is that okay in the current code no no so and why so why is that again the the code is specific about vehicle sales in C1 that no display or sales can take place outside it has to be inside the enclosed building we don't have a similar provision for bikes but it's very specific about the vehicles vehicles yes okay where the golf cart is it's kind of like a gray area now cuz you've got bikes and now they're ebikes and you've got golf carts and now they could be electric golf carts and they're kind of blending together a little bit so I could see how that could get a little interesting I I also just want want to try to make this an easy way to help them I feel like we're making it uh kind of cumbersome with rezoning and changing the the the entire structure of that whole plat just to try to help them with this I wish that you know just like kova was saying if we can maybe give them a temporary approval for now that's not in violation while we work through some sort of a text amendment to help them out I think that that's something we should look at I don't think it's in our purview John maybe you can help me understand one more thing if in fact when the bicycle shop was there and they had and they did I you know I've seen it trailers cars uh bikes all over the place out there they utilize the parking lot extensively is it is it the code enforcement wasn't as rigorous as they are today or did the zoning ordinances change uh Vice chair uh what I'm not sure I can answer that very specifically we have gotten uh more um uh proactive with our code enforcement than we were a few years ago when we just had one officer and now we have the two and a half and so they they are a little bit more active uh without seeing this you know I'm hearing a little bit about these other uses and activities were they violations of the code I don't have enough information to say if they were or were not well I can tell you being a resident for 37 years I have seen the changes come and go at that place and sometimes the the restaurant areas or the exercise facilities were packed the parking lots were packed and it clearly would have exceeded any parking requirement and the example of the bicycle shop where they hosted people for and their vehicles for days when they had their races and so on I'm just trying to figure out if this is the only way we can go is go from C1 to C2 and then a special use permit is that or do we have to give it back to council and say we need to write a text Amendment to the ordinance somehow we have one or two choices it sounds like right and so what I'm imagining the commission may do don't want to again jump too far ahead but I'm hearing concern about the reone to C2 and so I could imagine your motion may be to deny but at the same time recommend to council that they direct staff to prepare a text amendment to allow the use and C1 commission k yeah if so let's go down that route for a minute if we make that recommendation to deny C2 and recommend to council that they allow a text amendment to allow the use in C1 um then C then Council would hear that when it's on their scheduled currently for the November 19th meeting and if they approve it they still have to come back with the tech with the text Amendment or is we done so again what I can anticipate is hearing the concerns of the commission and anticipating what council might do is that anticipating that they would give staff that direction I could in the meantime be preparing uh an amendment so if they do give me that Direction in November I could be here in December with that Amendment and then we're to Council in January January is better than March um and and then if we decide to approve C2 and it go it would go to Council in November correct and can I ask petitioner how bad does it hurt you to wait 60 days okay yeah that's what I'm in favor of is stick is let's stay with C1 and recommend uh the text Amendment and let's go down that route I just don't want those users has something before just one other question I didn't make a motion back to no he didn't make a motion back to the C2 assuming we went the C2 route are you telling me that once we do the C2 that someone wants to come in and open a drug treatment facility right next door to the golf cart store that they're free to do that without any approval it's not going to come to us it's not going to go corre to councel okay Commissioners any other questions that last one was a little bit of a bomb no more comments do I Commissioners do I have a motion yeah I'll make the motion that chair excuse me chair we have comments from the speaker cards yeah so Paulo Richards filled out one are you you're good okay all right okay the next speaker last one would be Larry Meyers I spent years trying to keep these places from getting rezoned so it could be detox centers you recommend this place to get rezoned to C2 I'll bring holy hell down on you including the next Council I swear to God I will do it first of all Wilson eim already bought up five Parcels with that intent just a little bit down this way on that map so don't tell me what can and can't be done in a C2 that thing needs to be needs to say C1 because having been here for 43 years that shopping center out there was in intended to service all those people in the AL peblo district and the state trust land if it ever got developed into affordable more tracked home so now you're going to intensify what was designed to be non-intensive and allow a use in that was never even presupposed in the80s I mean a detox center in Fountain Hills holy smokes who would have th it so I got a suggestion for you how about this variance put your golf carts out there I'm all I I think the guy should be able to sell his golf carts for crying out loud that parking lot's empty How about if code enforcement goes like this and remembering we had a political ribbon in this town in 2018 and what did we do we went like this and nobody fought over it and nobody was damaged by it and people lived in harmony because we weren't so stuck to the code that is not practical for Solutions not here here you rezone that C2 looking here for a golf cart I guarantee you you'll end up with a detox hospital or something else that's undesirable for that particular location as a C2 instead of C1 but you know how much time we spent trying to confine that particular application you want to throw all that away because I got news for you Grady Miller wanted to put it out on that end of town I know it for a fact and he was talking to the Dr Wilson eim about doing it and that's why I've been suspicious of everything that gets built out there when there when there's a change in the zoning because you can't do it the way the zoning is now but if you change the zoning you'll be changing the opportunity for it to happen and he'll be selling golf carts next to drug addicts go over to West Cactus see what those businesses endure when that happens next door to their business they move and then the Plaza's empty again so I'm dead set against changing the zoning to C2 figure out another way and here's the quickest easiest way you don't even have to ask permission all you have to do is ask John to go like this and then people drive by and buy golf carts and the town collects the sales tax revenue that's that's my quick simple solution but changing it to C2 my antennas are up and they're not going down until this issue is completely settled and it stays C1 and the lights are we lighting the parking lot to display the golf carts because drive by on colony and Saro at night the middle of the night we're a dark sky Community it's brighter than day so those issues sort of caus my antennas to go up thanks thank you Mr Mars so commissioner aside from the impassioned speech I I think I am in support of denying at a very personal level and doing a text Amendment thank you thank you Paula um and doing it and pushing it back to council to do a text amendment to get them the variance that and I'm calling it a variance I don't know if that's a mechanical name for it or not to so if I can get a motion yeah I'll make a motion that we uh deny the uh petition for C2 zoning and recommend John we recommending Council to send it back to us to to re to or Council to direct staff to prepare a text amendment to allow golf cart display in C1 yes do I have a second second Paul Second and just one comment just you know what Larry was saying kind of kind of turning a blind eye to this um I just wanted to remind us so given that they return the carts at night I mean you bring them in inside the building right so we're saying that we don't allow the car sales cars would be out all night long but given that these are the golf carts and they go in at night is does that give us a little bit of leniency in allowing them to continue this while we're preparing the text Amendment Vice chair commissioner Watts the code says commissioner Corey the um the code says no outdoor display that's all I can say right then I'd throw it out there all right commissioner is there are there other um types of product we should be including with this text Amendment like electric bikes or besides just are this going to be specific to golf carts again Vice chair watch commissioner I've had the few minutes we're here talking about it to think about what all that might encompass to keep it simple and get it through quickly I guess I'm done to keep it simple and get it done quickly the easy thing will be to limit it to golf carts but as we do that if there's some easy way to you widen that out a little bit without making it complicated consider that I didn't really know whether or not they had other product besides the besides the golf carts I thought there was some somebody said ego e has already said that [Music] okay so I did hear it right so if okay so if that should be added perhaps it should be added I don't know so John what's the fine uh starts at 750 per violation uh K did you have another question apparently not Paula can I have a roll car roll call please commissioner Corey I commissioner kovasovic I commissioner schosberg hi commissioner seum hi Vice chair Watts I 5 Z so John before you run off does that actually negate the next topic uh uh for you uh Commissioners no it does not because when it gets to council they may decide to approve the C2 and so they would need your recommendation on the special use it whether you're for it or against it I think we could pretty much almost cut right to a motion on it if you'd like I think so I I'll make a motion that we deny the uh what was it special use permit question I would think you'd want to go ahead and recommend approval of it oh recommend approv because you're supportive of it right okay yeah recommend approval so in case the council should choose to approve the rezoning then they've got your recommendation to approve the I recommend that we or I'll make a motion that approve the special use permit second I'm confused again nothing new so if Council approves it approves it going from C1 to C2 yes we've opened Pandora's Box that's true okay and if we don't we just throw another obstacle up there if we Den the Su at this point so they would have to approve both and the owners would be on Council not on us because I don't I don't want to be any part of converting from C1 to C2 right so I would be cautious of approving just to be safe but we make a recommendation to approve or deny council's got to council's going to do whatever it wants to do that's why I would say deny that's why I originally thought deny well I I think from our perspective if we don't want any involvement to go from C1 to C2 that I want to make it as challenging as possible for it to have that occur I can see both I can see joh I understand what he's saying but I'm saying I don't want to make it easy trumped on as before soer Oh we have a speaker card for the I should have known sorry about that we have one speaker card it's for Larry Meyers I would recommend not approving the Su because if you open the window a crack the council will climb through it they have in the past they will maybe in the future maybe not who knows but why get why why recommend approval of an Su on zoning of a C2 if you're not recommending rezoning to C2 just pass on the Su part of it go over for the text Amendment look the other way so the man can sell some golf carts in the meantime collect some sales tax revenue and call it a day Merry Christmas thank you all right Commissioners do I have a motion I think there's already a motion made and I think we have to amend that we have we have a motion and a second do we get a motion and a second for the first for the Su yes then we have to okay we can discuss it but okay we can I yeah and I I still the agenda item reads hold a public hearing consideration and possible action a request for a special use permit to allow vehicle sales with outdoor display at 15225 North Fountain Hills Boulevard that's what the agenda item says and so we just recommended a that uh for councel to direct staff to allow with to do a text amendment to allow a special use permit in C1 zoning this has nothing to do with rezoning from C1 to C2 and we're going to be faced with this special use permit once we get the text Amendment the motion isn't going to change so I I mean you know it's it's just council's going to do what it's going to do we're we're going to approve a special use permit whether we do it now or whether we do it or we're going to make a recommend a recommendation to council to approve a special use permit whether we do it now or whether we do it in December that's going to be our recommendation so I don't see any reason to change the motion or to deny the motion in the second I do have a comment go ahead commissioner Cory thank you chair okay however the Su is saying vehicle sales and we're not asking for vehicle Sals sales in our text Amendment the text amend the text amendment is specifically for golf cart sales so it sounds to me like we want to reject the Su the way that it's written in this case because we're doing our text Amendment differently specifically for golf carts what did what did we move to do Paula can you Dan kovic made a motion to recommend approval to the Council of the Su Clayton Corey seconded the motion but then there was discussion that we were confused as to ex exactly what we were approving there right so that's where we're at yeah we got to fix that so the so the motion can be withdrawn yes yes the motion could could be withdrawn okay if both parties agree and so another thought comes to mind it maybe that is that you recommend to council that they continue the discussion or the application for the special use permit pending the text Amendment because as commissioner kovic mentioned a moment ago it was likely then come back here okay um for your consideration with with the allowance now for the outdoorplay in the SE so maybe that's that's better recommendation makes sense okay so say that commissioner kovic are you going to stand by your motion or you going to withdraw I don't know are you going to amend your a motion I can I'll amend the mo actually you have to withdraw then all right represent it deny okay I'll withdraw the motion the second agrees second okay now make your motion okay I'm moving that we approve a special use permit to allow display of golf carts right no no you're going to tie the special use permit back to the text Amendment and make that part and parcel somebody else make the motion okay I'll give it a shot I will'll uh make a motion that we approve the Su with the stipulation that uh we first look at uh that staff will direct and prepare a text amendment to allow golf cart sales in the C1 right I'm still it's deny the Su but recommend that Council consider it at the same time that they look at the text Amendment they do the they do the heavy lifting on the SU and then it comes back to us for finalization but right now deny it don't open up that Pandora's Box well that's what I was saying earlier we're changing it I thought you said approve it John my my latest thought is to recommend a continuance because the challenge we have is is a denial at this point then they means they have to reapply versus just keeping it live by continuing it pending the council amending the ordinance and then they can come back to you with the amended ordinance all right okay make that you change from deny then to continue right okay all right I'll move that we continue agenda item six holding a public hearing consideration and possible action for the special use permit to allow vehicle sales with outdoor display we have a second second Paula commissioner Corey I commissioner kovic I commissioner slosberg hi commissioner seum hi Vice chair Watts Hi [Music] Z make sure you were ready okay it's item number eight let's see I think I think I forgot to uh seven change no seven here appeals and variances we got to do the zoning change first sorry about that item seven oops the uh amending zoning ordinance 2.07 appeals and variances yes so uh chairman uh Commissioners as you know we've been slowly working our way through chapter two of the zoning ordinance which is a procedures chapter updating each of the sections uh to uh uh make them a little clearer more consistent across the different sections and address any any issues we've had within those you're on your last one uh so you won't see any more of these after after tonight if you make a recommendation on to council the section you have the evening of section 207 appeals and variances so this deals with items that are appealed to and from the board of adjustment as well as requests for variances and there are uh requirements in State Statute uh that this uh has to follow so uh in the uh ordinances as currently written there's um not a clear statement of overall purpose for variances and appeals so that's the first change to add a new section a purpose again this makes it consistent with how each of the other sections are laid out uh to have uh such a statement and so then we kind of rumber a little bit from there so section B then becomes the appeals to the board of adjustment just as a a note in the five plus years I've been here we've had no appeals to the board of adjustment and I haven't looked back but I'm not aware of any that have ever taken place basically appeals to the board are if um I in my role as Zone administrator make some interpretation of the code or apply it in some way that somebody doesn't agree with they can appeal that decision uh to uh to the board of adjustment that's what those are about so uh uh few changes in here mostly it's reorganization and then again just some things to bring it up consistent with the other sections of the code uh so we moved what was uh number one up to the letter B uh in the code and then uh we amended and added the whole application process as we've done in the other sections that can be filed electronically needs a narrative statement and paying a fee what was uh the existing three then becomes two stay of proceeding meetings so we created a new number three which is review which is again similar to what we've done in the other sections we get the application in we check it for completeness and once it's complete uh then we can schedule it for the hearings what uh was existing uh for is uh noce some minor uh has some minor modifications uh and the first sentence of that was moved up to number three then there's a new number five on the hearings which was again mostly just a slight reorganization some of the existing language and what was number six moves to 5B in that list so again mostly just some reorganizations of of existing language then section c of this uh this section is about variances we've had six variance applications in the last five years we haven't had a board of adjustment meeting in a year uh you all get a lot more work if you want to be a little easier anyway um so again mostly some reorganization for clarity and adding in the standard application review steps so number one provides uh a little bit more purpose for this section um number two uh is uh the application uh requirements again similar to the other ones electronically and and so forth all those things um number three as a review section again we'll try to get all these sections consistent you what they say in the same order so review again similar what we've done in the other chapters we're going to review it for completeness work back and forth if you're missing anything once it's complete then we start scheduling for the hearings uh section four is notice um it was part of number two in the in the current ordinance and then number five is on hearing it's just a reorganization of the language from the current code here's the main piece that we were wanting to address in this whole section is what's required for consideration approval of variant in the current code these requirements are scattered through different parts and portions of the ordinance and it's caused confusion when we have been at the board of adjustment about what are the requirements and and how many of those do you have to meet and so forth so we've been able to organize them into one specific location in the code and make it clear that you have to meet all of these standards starting with the first one and going through the last in order to be considered for approval of a variance and then uh finally also a requirement uh that you can't look at at what's going on around you in terms of granting a variance then the existing number four was changed to uh seven action and list action that can be taken by the board similar what we talked about with other cases um the variance granted is non-transferable it goes with the person who applied for it until it gets established but once it's established then it does run with the land and then um the last one the existing five and and seven that were in the code were relocated into other parts of that section and the final section of 207 is number D that's appeals from the board of adjustment so if somebody's not happy with what the board of adjustment does it goes to Superior Court it doesn't come to council um and so it's U different than anything else and so um there are no changes here I think there's one word be clarified but other than that there were no changes this particular section any questions about the modifications proposed of section 207 of the zoning ordinance commers questions uh just one thing John there was a change in um the timeline that somebody would have to submit their their um oh God I would it's late the appeal thank you was it 30 days and we cut it back to 15 days or is that correct and is there any concern that that would be too restrictive and just let me get that up here I thought I saw that we just cut that back in half I saw it too okay um just want to make sure that doesn't present any issues like has 30 days been working fine and now we're cutting it to 15 for what more reason that's on the appeal to to the U Board of adjustment yes and so um so I don't in so in b 1 a is where I'm seeing the 15 days no I think it's on page five D [Music] 7D maybe I'm not looking at that right so appeals from the board are 30 days appeals to the board or 15 days okay we didn't change it we were just no specifying the differences okay maybe I read that wrong then okay then I don't have any concern with that I thought we were cutting that I don't think so I'm looking through here to it's been a little while since I've worked some of that language so I'm just checking to make sure I'm not forgetting but I'm not seeing that okay okay I did a contr f on 15 also to see if there was relationship between 15 and 30 and I'm not seeing it so maybe I did misread that okay thank you John just a couple minor is there a reason we don't have a definitive amount of time following notice requirements the appeal will be scheduled for a hearing by the board of adjustments at the next available meeting 30 days 45 days 60 days is there there's nothing definitive that's a bit ambiguous I think again that's similar to what we've done in the other ones I can double check and adjust that if necessary but the board meets the we haven't met in so long the third Thursday of the month yes third Thursday of each month so oh it does but yes if they have something to meet about and so it's a published meeting date that's out there so based on notice requirements it gets put on the next available one and is there a reason that we're going to wave the fees for the Town School District special purpose Etc and we say we may be waved or they are going to be waved how do we determine that we like to I guess leave that little bit of wiggle room in there uh I don't know why they wouldn't ever be waved but if you say they're they are and then if there some reason they shouldn't be in a given case then you have no choice have we ever waved them for other governmental jurisdictions we they usually do get waved but I mean there's a lot of entities in that state in that sentence so do we wave them all the time we haven't had any such applications for me to uh say what we've always done okay and then uh the electronic filing again very much like the peric process I'm not sure that people that are going to apply appeal the processes are necessarily going to be computer illiterate internet illiterate we don't have an alternate means in there for those people that are not versed as far as electronic filings should we uh chairman I don't believe so for a couple of reasons uh worst case we'll submit it for them electronically because it's got to get in there that's the only way we can track it uh but usually if somebody is going to this level of appeal they've got attorney involved and that attorney is going to figure out how to get it happen should we at least say in that in that sentence somewhere that if unable uh staff will complete the form for you we we haven't done that in any of the other sections and this is the last one okay may may I speak as a staff member we we're always there to assist people they call constantly and ask um if if they can't apply online they'll come in or we'll work with them over the phone we're available to assist them if they can't do it themselves yeah I've seen other organizations where there's a terminal out in the lobby area where somebody can help them we don't have that today so we don't have a somebody can look over their shoulder and help them work through that unless they do it and unless you allow them into the office areas no we just do it over the counter you just do it for them M okay just do it right over the counter if they're at that point where they can't use the computer they're not going to be able they'll take them forever to do it with us looking over their shoulder so we do it for them okay thank you thanks John any other questions Commissioners do I have a motion to approve all right commissioner Cory all right I will make a motion to approve the amending uh approve amending Zone ordinance section 2.07 appeals and variances I'll second Paula roll call please commissioner Corey I commissioner kovic I commissioner slosberg I commissioner seum I Vice chair Watts I 5 Z okay all right John I think I got this one right number eight and you're still up these paper clips get in my way I got to figure this out with far hot some time I'm not hearing he sitting over there um so uh chairman not much uh appreciate the good discussion we had this evening uh as far as uh November because of um Veterans Day which would be the second Monday of the month if we have a meeting it will be moved back a week to the 18th of November and right now we have a possibility of a couple of additional special use permits for that particular meeting they're not for sure yet so we'll let you know once we determine um if we'll actually have that if not we won't see you till December okay and number nine Commissioners any request for staff commissioner Corey thank you got to look this way once in a while I did have two things first of all I just wanted to say thank you Paula for providing the PowerPoint presentation it was very helpful thank you John just being able to see that breakdown the summary was uh it really helped tie the agenda together so I really do appreciate that the second one is I didn't see this on our weekly log what's happening with the property next to Rainbow Donuts do we have any status on what's going on over there it's being redeveloped seem to have been sitting with nothing going on for quite a while right it did we have seen some activity again recently okay um we can't force them to work any faster than they can work so they are Mak progress what is it it's going to be a uh um coffee what's the what coffe a coffee roaster but also he has a sign business right okay small pastry shop all right yeah I think we uncovered something tonight the there we really should have a restriction on the um addiction treatments centers and rifle ranges and I I can't even think of others but they should there should be a distance from schools and I think we need to amend the zoning ordinance to reflect that we can put that on our list thank you I have nothing for a change okay Commissioners I know you all want to hear this we have a motion to adjourn so moved second done you don't even to do roll call