Fountain Hills Eliminates Ethics Complaint Process in Contentious 5-2 Allen Skillicorn Sanctions Dispute

like to call this meeting to order. Please rise for the pledge of allegiance and stay standing for the invocation. I pledge algiance to the flag of the stands nationy and justice for all. And our invocation invocation tonight will be Carrie Schneider from Promised Land Preschool. Good evening, mayor and council members. Thank you for the opportunity to come and open up your meeting in prayer this evening.

But before we pray, I'd like to invite the entire council and the community to come to worship at Christ Church of Fountain Hills tomorrow for our worship night as we celebrate our risen King this Holy Week. We'd love to have you come. Let's pray. Heavenly Father, we come before you this evening thankful for the unique town of Fountain Hills. We are blessed to live in your gorgeous creation full of life and beauty. We thank you, Lord, for these elected leaders who have chosen to serve.

Bless them as they lead with honesty and integrity. Lord, may we as a council and community come together this evening seeking your wisdom to make the best decisions that honor you and give dignity and value to the citizens who live here. May your will be done in Jesus' name. Amen. Thank you. Town clerk, roll call, please. Mayor Fidell, present. Vice Mayor Toth, present. Council member Earl, present. Council member Calvian Knox, here. Council member Watts here. Council member McMahon here.

Council member Skellicorn here. Thank you. Before we uh get started with our statement of participation, there's going to be some changes on the agenda tonight. Uh items 9 C and D will be addressed separately and item 9E has been removed from the agenda for tonight. Town clerk, uh statement of participation please.

Anyone wishing to address the council regarding items listed on the agenda or under the call to the public should fill out a request to comment card located in the back of the council chambers and hand it to the town clerk prior to consideration of that agenda item. Once the agenda item has started, late request to speak cannot be accepted. And when your name is called, please approach the podium and speak into the microphone and state your name.

And if you are a resident for the public record, please limit your comments to three minutes. It is the policy of the mayor and the council to not comment on items brought forth under the call to the public. However, staff can be directed to report back to the council at a future date or to schedule items raised for a future council agenda.

It is also requested that applause be kept to a minimum to avoid disruption of the meeting to maintain decorum and provide for an equal and uninterrupted presentation. Thank you. And before we start our reports by mayor, council members and town manager, the town manager and the town attorney will be joining us shortly. So we'll start our reports with uh Councilwoman Earl. I have nothing to report. Thank you, Councilwoman Kelly Vianakis. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Um, good good afternoon, good evening, everybody. It's so nice to see a such a full audience here again tonight to be here with us for your town council meeting. Um, I'd like to greet the people on YouTube and and streaming and on Cox Channel 11. Thank you also for attending our meeting. Um, we have a new kind of expedited um program uh for the beginning of your meeting.

So, instead of going through a report of what I've done the last couple weeks, I would just like to bring everybody's attention to something I think is critically important. In the back of the room, I put these little flyers. It says, "Making every day awesome. Uh, Fountain Roots and Iron Root Strength have a blood drive scheduled for the ongoing months uh coming up to the summer all the way to November. Um, it's very important that people give blood.

There's a new gentleman named Paul Hines who is running this program now. He asked me if I could be kind of their spokesman and get the word out that there's a critical need for blood in our community. Blood um donations uh are there for transfusions, for cancers, for surgery, chronic illnesses, and traumatic injuries. Um it's up to us, the healthy people to give to give blood so the people that aren't so fortunate will um have that resource available.

And so, like I said, these are at the back of the room. pick them up, get the date uh sk you you'll be making a difference to people whose lives need it. And so, thank you, Mr. Mayor. That was my report. Thank you, Councilman Watts. Quiet week. Nothing to report. Thank you, Councilman Skellicorn. No report, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Councilwoman. Thank you, ma'am. I would like to thank Ted Blank and his group.

His volunteer group completed the repainting of the black parts of the Ballard lights in Fountain Park the other day. It took three Sundays and a total of about 12 hours, roughly 20 volunteers. "We think the lights look pretty good," he said.

"And we successfully eliminated 90% of the upward reflected light without reducing any light on the path around the lake." Neighbors on the hill overlooking the park said they could immediately see that where we stopped painting a couple of weeks ago and the difference was obvious. Now all 287 lights are refreshed. So thank you very much Ted and your volunteers. It's appreciated. Thank you.

Also, um I attended Oakwood Creative Care open house in Chandler showcasing their new large building that will include a medical clinic. They provide help and assistance for families on the dementia journey and they are looking to come out to Fountain Hills to have a satellite um facility here. Um we're helping him them facilitate that. So hopefully that will have be happening hopefully sooner rather than later. So thank you Vice Mayor, no report this week. Thank you. Okay. Thank you.

So, I had the pleasure of uh attending the dark sky reception at the artist gallery on the Avenue. It was really successful. And uh if you haven't been in that artist gallery, they have some nice little uh handmade artwork that they're actually selling on behalf of the Dark Sky Discovery Center. So, make sure you check that out. I attended the mayor's lunch in Apache Junction. our law enforcement committee met.

Um, I spoke with a group of realators um in town uh dealing with our uh capital projects and what we're what we're doing on Park View and uh Verie River. I attended uh a community is unity kickball and barbecue event that was hosted by Brandon Wise and his wise agents up at Four Peaks. And it was a great community event and it was well attended. We also had music fest this past week. We had uh music on the Avenue as well.

We had a budget workshop and I was able to to do a uh Fredel Friday video with Dr. Kaine from our school district where we highlighted some of the great things that are going on in our in our school district. I also had the pleasure of um attending the scholarship awards ceremony that was hosted by our own uh Fountain Hills American Legion Post 58. They literally gave out almost $20,000 worth of scholarships.

So the American Legion Post, the Marine Corps League, and um the American Legion Sons of uh the American Legion Post 58 were all the uh presenters of those awards. So we had a lot of great uh honores and those students really uh deserved it. And then I held my uh third coffee with the mayor that was well attended. That was yesterday and we had about 50 people there.

So we talked again about capital improvement projects road work and there are a lot of uh good questions asked by the audience and now we'll uh move on to uh proclamation. So we have um an outstanding achievement that uh our vice mayor is going to read and present. Is uh Ava Bourne in the audience? Okay. There she is. Congratulations for her outstanding achievements in wrestling.

Whereas high school wrestling has demonstrated exceptional ability through the 2024 through 202 awardility in grappling and powerful take one of the top competitors in the state and where unwavering dedication and toughness historic victory in a wrestling program A enternated placement in her bracket. Whereas achieved an extraordinary securing second place at the 202 whereas achievements serve as inspiration not only to female wrestlers but to all athletes and members.

Now therefore I along with the council on behalf of the town here commend for her exceptional accomplishments in wrestling and extend our best wishes for seal. [Applause] Yay! Thank you, Vice Mayor. Now, we'll move on to the mayor's business spotlight. Tonight, it's my pleasure to recognize Vicky Dirkson and the night sky tourist business here in our town.

Vicki has created and hosted several events to educate and promote the dark skies on behalf of the town to include the international uh moonight uh gemide meteor shower watch party which I was at and that was very good. Um the planet gazing. She serves on the board of the international dark sky discovery center. Vicki is one of the star dudes.

Maybe we need to change that name to um a group of local night sky enthusiasts who who give stargazing experiences at a Daryl resort and partners with the Sonoran Conservancy to offer stargazing hikes. Vicki is so well known that last year she met with journalists from Spain who were spending a month in Arizona and Utah to write a story about the dark sky movement. She drove them all around Fountain Hills one night. Of course it had to be at night.

um met them for an interview the next day and then a couple weeks later they came back to do a photo shoot and the article is now been published in the Norwegian and Italian magazine. So uh we want to congratulate her and I'm going to read this and then I'm going to have you come up and get this and then say a few words about your business Vicki. Okay.

In recognition of your outstanding contribution to the town of Fountain Hills, this certificate celebrates your dedication to excellence in in innovation and community engagement. Your commitment to quality and service has not only strengthened our local economy, but also enriched the lives of residents and visitors alike. The town of Fountain Hills is proud to honor you as business your business as a vital part of our community's growth and success. So, congratulations. Come on up. Thank you.

Well, what I do here in Fountain Hills would not be possible were it not for our very special and precious dark skies. And that we have had unanimous support in this community for years, I believe what seven or eight years now, Joe. Um, of the efforts to protect the dark skies here. And so I want to thank the council, the councils that came before this who had the foresight for it.

And um we we're thrilled to provide stargazing up at a Daryl Scottsdale Resort on Friday nights as Derry said and um we do private stargazing events if anybody wants to host something at their home or you know for a private party something like that. It's really really fun. So we've got a couple of star dudes here tonight other than myself. I am I got dubbed a star dude. Um Ted Blank and Tony Pastelli. If you guys could just kind of stand up and say hi to everybody.

You guys have probably seen them at events. We have two other starudes, um, Scott Adams and Ken Carter, who couldn't be here tonight, and Jeff Yazetta is kind of our backup, and you guys have probably seen him around here. So, thank you. [Applause] Okay. So now we have it's it's kind of a uh a theme I think this week for our meeting. So now we have a proclamation and this is going to be accepted by John John Craft. But this proclamation is for international dark sky week.

So I'm I'm going to start with whereas the aesthetic beauty and wonder of a natural night sky is shared heritage of all humankind and whereas the experience of standing beneath a starry night sky inspires feelings of wonder and awe and encourages a growing interest in science and nature especially among young people and out of area visitors within the local communities.

And whereas light pollution has sign scientifically established economic and environmental consequences which result in significant impacts on the ecology and human health of all communities.

And whereas Arizona hosts 10% of the world's largest telescopes, including the world's largest optical telescope, and many of the world's most revered observatories, including the lol observatory, the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory, Whipple Observatory, the University of Arizona's MMT and large binocular telescope observatories, Kit Peak National Observatory, the the Vatican Observatory, and in the future, the International Dark Dark Sky Discovery Center right here.

And whereas the optical astron astron astronomy which is both hindered and endangered by unfettered light pollution represents a statewide capital investment of more than 1.3 billion and an annual economic return of over $250 million including an indirect attachment to more than 150,000 jobs through the aerospace and defense sector.

And whereas Fountain Hills Dark Sky Discovery, I'm sorry, Fountain Hills Dark Sky Preservation Committee provides free education, resources, and solutions to the public to encourage the protection and enjoyment of dark skies and responsible outdoor lighting. Now therefore, be it resolved that I, Mayor Jerry Fredell, on behalf of the town of Fountain Hills, proclaim the week of April 21st through 28th, 2025 as International Dark Sky Week.

And I ask each resident to join me in not only observing this important week, but also in raising the awareness and support for protecting our precious dark skies. In witness thereof, I've signed this and it's got the town seal on it. So, John, if you're here, come on up. I think Vicki already pretty much explained uh what we're doing. Let me just reinforce and thank all of you and the town. The dark sky certification that we enjoy is the town's certification.

Our organization is merely here to support, to educate, and to raise awareness. And it's because of what we have done that soon we are going to enjoy a very comprehensive discovery center complete with telescope, planetariums, and many other things. So, thank you again. Uh we look forward to continued support. [Applause] Okay. And now I I see Justin lined up for a presentation.

Rachel, do you want to um Director Wel is going to be giving us a presentation tonight on the uh wash maintenance efforts that have gone on all spring um and give us a um forecast of what's coming next. Director, I'll turn it over to you. Thank you, Mayor. Vice Mayor, council members, anyone that has had an opportunity to visit Fountain Hills and or lives here can certainly recognize the founding father's commitment to preserving open space.

There is an incredible amount of open space within the town limits. There are numerous locations in this community where you can walk right out your backyard into practically undisturbed natural environment. One could arguably say that after the town's incorporation and prior to the wash ordinance that they attempted to put together some guidelines for maintenance and how that maintenance should be followed through with.

Unfortunately, over the years, funding for that has been limited to say the least. Over the past few years, we have certainly made some progress and we have encouraging news for this year and good news for next year because the current council has approved funding that will allow us to keep going. Please note that we do not take wash maintenance lightly and it can be challenging.

And one of the challenges that we face more often than not is the amount of debris, washing machines couches bicycles concrete brick, block, and just everyday trash along with tree trimmings that have been dumped over walls or fences. or sometimes if a road crosses through a lowflow crossing, someone might stop there and shovel it out of the back of their truck into that wash.

These types of things drive up the challenges we face and the costs that we face to ensure that we have a reliable natural resource that allows for the conveyance of storm water from the McDows through the town into the Birdie River and eventually the Salt River. We're going to look at a few slides here related to some of the work that has been taking place since October of 2024 when the council approved the most recent contract. This is a map of our washes and all of our dams.

This is obviously not a blownup one, but for anyone that has had an opportunity to see this exhibit, you will see that there is an incredible amount of drainage that passes through this community. Please note that this is a townwide and includes the unincorporated, now incorporated area of the state trust land. We do not do any maintenance in that area.

And there are several areas that are privately owned or the responsibility of neighborhood property owners associations and or homeowners associations or gated communities. And some of them are maintained um by private land owners behind the gated communities. I've done already a considerable amount of talking, but imagine if you would that the town has a little bit over 200 acres of undisturbed land for lack of a better description.

In the second half of this year, we have managed to do maintenance on approximately this slide is is about five weeks old. We've made some progress. So, we're up to about 55 acres that we have done. The ones that we're going to discuss tonight are clearly shown there, which is Powder Horn and Sirius Wash. Each one of those are south of Shea. As we get closer, we get into Heagen Wash, Jaclyn Wash, Malta Wash, and Ashbrook.

Now, the area of Ashbrook that we're going to be discussing later in this presentation is primarily between Hamstead and Bayfield Drive. There is a little bit of additional work that's going to take place that's east of Bayfield heading towards um Sawro later on. This first video right here is is basically a before and after of one of those washes that shows what it looked like prior to us getting there and the material removed.

Keep in mind for some of these areas you'll see what appears to be a clearcut or everything removed. In fact, what we've done is we have just cleared the flow line, which is our primary objective here. Make sure that the flow line is clear and take any measures necessary in regards to fire mitigation. This is Powder Horn Wash. This is south of Shea, just off of Sorro. The photo on the left shows the wash prior to us being in there. Obviously, the one on the right shows the after.

Here is another little section of Powder Horn Wash, the before and after. This is Oxford Wash. And we're showing you this section right here because this is the area where water is conveyed from numerous neighborhoods down the streets and into a couple of small drainage pipes and then it enters into Oxford Wash and makes its way to the east. But we wanted to show you the before and after.

As you can see, there's organic material and/or growth that's covering the inlet and or completely covering the rip wrap that protects that inlet. This is an area of Ashbrook Wash. This is just east of Hamstead. You'll see on the left that there is a considerable amount of growth and the one on the right is what we've been doing as we get started.

I think it's important to note that the areas that we'll be working on later on this fall and into the spring are going to be primarily focused on Ashbrook Wash and a couple of others around the town center. There is an incredible amount of illegal dumping in Ashbrook Wash that's going to require, for lack of a better description, hundreds of thousands of dollars to remove.

Some of it has built up for decades and could be anywhere from 20 to 30 feet wide and 150 ft long and contain tree branches, used or unused appliances, bicycles, brick, block. The mayor and I have taken a few field trips out and taken a look at this material. We've taken pictures. We are working on an outreach and some educational material for the homeowners that not only back up to each of these washes, but the homeowners in Fountain Hills as a whole will put out a flyer.

One of the things that we we are focusing on here and the town manager and and duly noted was concerned about some of the things that I'm going to say. Whenever I say that we are going to stop wash maintenance during the warmer part of the months and there's a considerable amount of push back on that. The primary reason for that is safety.

For those that are able to enjoy the wash on a regular basis, walking their dogs or maybe riding their bicycle on one of those areas, you can hear and see pretty much everything that's around you. When you get into the densely vegetated areas and there are chainsaws and tractors and other stuff running, you cannot necessarily hear what's going on around you. And there are a considerable amount of snakes and other venomous creatures that live in and around the washes.

When you have to reach down and pick up debris in and around shrubs, you certainly may not see and you're not going to be able to hear a rattlesnake. There are also during this time the sonorin breeding season um that believe it or not if you go down into these washes this time of year you'll see that they are very very busy. We are in fact flying a drone on what I refer to as the hardest working couple in Fountain Hills. Um some owls that are raising two owlets right now.

We're monitoring them because they're living in a dead tree that needs to be removed for safety. But we are going to allow them to raise their family. And once they have flown and everything is all clear, which will probably be later this fall, we'll remove that tree. We're not going to describe the location of that tree or those creatures for obvious reasons. When we get back in here in the fall, there is going to be a considerable amount of work done. We will have a brand new budget.

We already have a plan put together. There are going to be substantial changes to several of the larger washes. I think it's important to note that wash maintenance does not include a clear cut of everything and we I routinely do not go up on the slopes or above the slope because the trees and shrubs and bushes that are growing there stabilize those slopes and minimize erosion in that area.

We will however be removing any dead or drying brush that may or may not create any fire hazards to the best of our ability. We've got a couple of more slides here and this one right here is is a pretty important one. This is the defensible space. As we are working through all of these washes, we are keeping in mind that not all of the homes that back up to the wash have the clear 30 ft between the dwelling, the home they live in and the wash.

We will take that into consideration as we do maintenance there. as people contact us and there's been a considerable amount of communication back and forth between the elected body, the town manager, myself and other staff members related to watch maintenance. It is very very difficult to explain to someone that the conditions in Fountain Hills are not similar to other areas in the US where there are wildfires. Their concerns are legitimate.

We have a fire department and they are absolutely capable and when we have questions in regards to fire safety, I do not answer them. I do not forward them to the ma town manager. We forward that information to the fire marshall and or the fire chief. They are the experts and they have the ability to answer those questions.

I can tell you recently that they have visited numerous homes at the request of that homeowner and given them some guidance andor provided guidance to town staff in regards to their observations. With that, in the interest of time, if you have any questions, I will do my best to answer them. Just a comment, I appreciate the fact that we've done some a lot of on on-site visits to see the scope and the size of this job. It's it's monstrous.

Um, so I and I appreciate the council's support and giving additional funding toward this project because it is serious and we want the residents to know that we do take it seriously. Councilwoman Ki Biancus. Thank Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Um just just just one thing for for the public's sake and one of the things when I hear from constituents the most is I have a very dangerous wash at my house and I' I'd like to take priority and and numerous people say that and so just for the the town's folk so we can just put this on the record tonight.

um what is the procedure, how we we pick which washes and what's the pecking order so they kind of have an idea of the process because understanding that everybody thinks that you know they want their wash done first and we simply can't do that. Mayor, council member Calabianakas, we intentionally do not publish a schedule for where we are going to be and for how long because the conditions are really going to dictate that.

I will tell you that every townowned wash that was shown on the second slide of this presentation will re receive some attention. Please bear in mind that we've only had a few months in adequate funding to get started and we've made incredible progress and arguably wash maintenance has been behind for probably 25 plus years.

We're going to need a couple of years to get caught up and to a manageable condition, but we simply do not publish times or schedules because we don't want to be caught off guard or more importantly, if we're not there on Tuesday, have the mayor and council receive criticism. Thank you. You're welcome, Councilman Watts. Justin, there's a wash that's Fountain Hills Boulevard in Sherwood, and I I was looking on the map to try to find the name of that.

Do you know what that name what that name of that wash is, Mr. Mayor? Um, Council Member Watts, I believe that's legend wash. Legend. And it'll be done next year sometime. It It's a disaster right now. The intent is to try and accomplish everything in a two-year period. So, we will do our best to get to it. If not, we'll get it in FY27. But, we're going to continue to work. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you for the opportunity. Okay, we'll move on to the call to the public.

Um, town clerk, do we have any speaker cards? Mayor, we have four cards. We'll start with Pam Cap, followed by Nancy Ordowski. Good evening. Pam Cap, nine-year resident of Fountain Hills. For months, we have heard from the Rock Council members that DEI is bad. DEI gives an unfair advantage to those not worthy. Yet, it's no surprise that the majority will give themselves an unfair advantage that they are not worthy of.

The plan is to erase all ethic violations that are on the record for past and present council members. I'm sorry. That's a That's an agenda item, not for the call to the public. I could speak about anything at the call to public. Not an agenda item. I'm sorry. Next speaker, please. Nancy Ordowski, followed by Shelby Bleecker. Hello, my name is Nancy Ordowski. I've owned property here in Fountain Hills for 29 years and been a full-time resident for 27 years.

I want to thank uh the mayor and the council for um your voting on the care, excuse me, of the community center and the updates that you spoke of last two weeks ago. Um I think it's vitally important that we do take care of our property and not let it deteriorate and make it such a huge expensive item. But I also have a concern with that and the fact that in that meeting except for council member Skilicorn, nobody was concerned about how many bids you had for any of that project.

It's vitally important and I think that the council needs to make it a policy that at least there be three bids on any project where any money is being spent. It was stated, well, we have the money in the fund to do this. That's great, but I'd rather see $100,000 saved than all of the funding spent. So, please, whatever way or direction that you can take this in, I think it's really important. And it doesn't always have to be one group that does the entire job.

There are people who install fans and lights. There are people who install blinds. There are people who install the doors and things for the community center to divide the rooms and things. So, I think that you should take that into consideration and please um expect more than just one bid to make a decision about how the money is to be spent. Thank you, Shelby Blicker. And then the last speaker is Ed Stiza. Good evening, mayor, vice mayor, council members, town staff.

My name is Shelby Blacker, a resident for a little over a year now. Um, can I tell you a little story and I promise I will tie this into Fountain Hill, so bear with me. Um, a segment on 60 minutes that ran on March 30th talked about the hazardous waste generated from the fires in Palisades and Aladena and LA County. The article talked about batteries from cars, cell phones, ebikes, power walls, etc. But I'd like to speak about the EVs that they had found.

60-minute segment talked about over 600 EVs that were found in Palisades alone. And just one car requires over six drums to dispose of the batteries from that car. So this is what happens after these drums are plunged into a saltwater brine for 3 days to try to remove any energy from in them. The batteries have little or no product that can be recycled. The battery material is scooped out, shoveled onto a steel plate, and then it's steamrolled.

Chris Myers from the EPA spoke to 60 Minutes and stated that there's not a lot of value still left in what they have there. Now, it gets complicated. What's left is technically still hazardous material under California's strict environmental regulations. There are only two landfills in California that are certified to take hazardous materials and they were pretty much out of capacity before the fires.

So half of California's hazardous waste gets trucked out of state to Utah and to right here in Arizona. My question, my my comment really is why should we in Arizona take this hazardous waste from California? Just because we have lower federal EPA standards for hazardous waste in Arizona means we should allow our state to be polluted like this from California. I still need to drive often to and from Los Angeles, 406 miles one way.

And when crossing into California, most of that drive is wide open desert. Not even a single tree, a lake, or a river to be seen. California certainly has enough room to handle their own hazardous trash. Now, I'd like to ask you, the Fountain Hills Town Council, to take the lead on this and let our legislators know what's going on and that it's not okay to be the dumping ground for California. Please put this onto your legislative calendar and discuss how we can stop this.

Let's keep Arizona and Fountain Hills beautiful and clean. We should only need to deal with our own waste, not everyone and anyone else's trash. Thank you. The last speaker is Ed Stiza. Good evening, mayor, town council, staff, and the public. um very disappointing that we removed the agenda items 9 D and E from uh speaking about it tonight and going over it.

But I'm actually here to talk about the shade structure that's about to be installed uh down on the Avenue of the Fountains within the median. I don't think that uh there's been a solid enough look at this and certainly designs have not um they haven't pres been presented uh correctly to the public certainly in a tremendous amount of detail. There's so many people I talked to that have absolutely no idea what this is.

I think and I'm actually pleading with this town council and to actually retake a look at this before you install this on the Avenue of the Fountains. Um, this is actually something that I don't think it was presented correctly and there are very few people that actually know uh the scope of what this design is going to do and at what costs. Um we are absolutely filling in our open spaces within Fountain Hills and this is really going to do that.

Uh let's leave the avenue open and uh we just had uh talk about dark skies and presentation or proclamation and boy we're going to cover up our dark skies even more again. And this shade structure is going to sit there for 90% of the time empty and it's going to block the views to the fountain. And I certainly understand the need for shade in this town and Arizona in general. But at what cost? Look at please look at some different designs before the installation happens at the end of June.

Uh it's coming quickly and most of the public does not know about it. So I I'm also pleading with the public to please please look at exactly what they are about to do on the Avenue of the Fountains and uh please comment on it and write in to the town and let everybody know how you feel. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Let me make sure everybody understands that 9 C and D were just separated and we will we will hear discussion on both of those agenda items tonight, Ed.

So you're so you're aware of that. Next we'll move on to is that is that it t? Okay. Thank you. We'll move on to our consent uh agenda items which is just approving our minutes from the last meeting. I need a motion please. So moved. Second. Roll call, please. Council member Watts. Hi. Council member McMahon. I. Council member Calivanas. Hi. Council member Earl. I. Council member Skellicorn. Yes. Vice Mayor Toth. I. And Mayor Fidell. I. Mayor 70. Thank you.

Our first regular agenda item is a consideration for possible action for the approval of a subcommittee recommendation for to our strategic planning advisory commission to a partial term from April 1st, 2025 to April 30th, 2026. And I with that I'm going to move to appoint Paulie Bonnet to a partial term from April 1st, 2025 to April 30th, 2026 to serve on our strategic planning advisory commission. Are there any uh comment cards on that? Okay. Thank you. Um so I would need a second for that.

Second. Okay. Roll call, please. Council member Earl, I. Council member Skilicorn, yes. Council member McMahon, I. Council member Calibianis, I. Council member Watts, I. Vice Mayor Toth, I. And Mayor Fidell, I. Mayor 70. Thank you. And then our next uh agenda item is uh consideration and possible action for a request to apply for congressionally directed spending on behalf of the International Dark Sky Discovery Center. Uh Rachel, thank you, Mayor.

um our um economic development director Amanda Jacobs is going to take the lead. But I would like to kind of um preface some of the the statements that um I think many of you know that our agenda this week getting it out to um not only to the council but the public was was held up. This was the item that we've been working on. Um it kind of came in sort of at the 11th hour.

So we wanted to make sure that we had done our due diligence and didn't put something um out there without having proper review and whatnot. Um there's a lot to this. There's a lot of questions. I've had a number of questions from um each of you, most of you. Um so, please make sure you have if you have questions tonight, this is this is the time because there is um a deadline for this, which is why we did have to put it on tonight's agenda. Um the application would be due 25th, I believe.

So, that is why there was a sense of urgency um and the timeline associated. With that, I'll hand it over to Miss Jacobs. Thank you, Manager Goodwin. Mr. Mr. Mayor, members of council, I do not have a PowerPoint tonight. I'm going to give a brief overview and then I'm going to talk about some motions. There's one in your packet, but I'm going to go over two and through that motion talk about next steps. So, on March 26th, I met with um Nancy and Joe to talk about some upcoming grants.

We got the Fort McDow, Republic Services, etc. During that meeting, they shared with me that senators um GGO and Kelly had invited the dark sky to apply for fiscal year 26 congressionally directed funding. The caveat this year was nonprofits could not submit on their own. They strongly encouraged really it should be it's strongly required to go through um a town. So, here we are on April 8th last week.

Um, so Tuesday after 3:00, we were all here together at a workshop and so we received some followup from Jeff Espazita informing us of the deadline as manager Goen mentioned of April 25th. Um, so I did ask because I saw that it was just strongly suggested. Is this really required? So, they provided some backup information on April 9th. And so, we're here before council. The request is for $2.5 million. It's to outfit um a scientific exhibit um for example um for STEM education.

So, the council could tonight move to approve. And what that um entails is you would be directing staff to complete that form. Then there is a waiting process. So it could be this time next year. It could be in September of 2026 that we may find out if we receive it. We will then have to um if if we are considered, we then will have to complete a separate grant process. we would have to come before mayor and counsel for approval, but then the town staff would act as the grant administrator.

To manager Goodwin's point, if we take on that responsibility, just uh an estimate, it could take about a 100 hours to process. So, taking manager Goodwin last week, the the sort of scramble between several members of the finance team, my time, her time, the attorney's time, that was approximately 25 to 30 hours com combining our time because we can't just sometimes people think we can just put this on an agenda.

We have to do our due diligence, look at guidelines, make sure we're not violating the gift clause, etc. Also, with this approval, if you approve it tonight, our finance director will have to increase the special revenue fund by approximately $3 million. Just planning and anticipating if we are awarded. Now, that does not do anything to our expenditure limitation because federal revenue funds um are excluded. So, don't let that shock you.

Now, over the last couple weeks, one of our council members um has gently said that sometimes she feels like I'm just presenting you an option to approve. So, there's also the option to moving to deny. If you deny, that means all staff work stops. We don't complete anything. We don't get to submit the application. However, we will never know if we potentially receive those monies. With that said, I think I covered everything. getting the nod from our CFO. I will open it up uh Mr.

Mayor to any questions um the council may have for staff. Councilwoman McMahon, thank you very much. This is really a interesting grant. I have not seen anything like this before and um it's a lot of money. It's a lot of administration. I do have some financial questions and I would like to know if this is approved and if council agrees with the management of it, is there going to be a legal agreement between Dark Sky and the town outlining everybody's responsibilities, releasing liability, etc.

Is the staff does does the staff want to do this? Do they have enough time? Will a person need to be hired to manage this? Do you have any idea how much maint maintenance administration it's going to require etc. Um what is it going to cost the town? And I know it's a lot of questions but I'm asking them at once so that we you guys and why are we transferring three million and what's the cost to the town if anything whether it's awarded or not awarded please. Mr. Mr.

Mayor, Council Member McMahon, I will tackle some of those and then defer it to our CFO. So, your first question regarding um a legal um agreement. It's too premature to do that now, but that is something if again we receive council approval. We do get awarded where we would come back with the the grant application and then an agreement. It would include um the legal aspect of it. And then Council Member McMahon puts us on the spot of what does staff want to do here.

You know, I'm always honest with you. So, we're all extremely supportive of the dark skies with what the manager described. We were in reaction mode, although we spent many hours looking at this. As the economic development director, I if it was just totally up to me, and it's not, it's a it's a team, I most likely would say no. And just because I want to treat people fairly. So, if the Chamber of Commerce came to us and asked us to do this with the US Department of Commerce, would we do it?

I don't know if we if we would. And then last week, you guys know we had our budget workshop. The next day, again, members of our finance team had to stop work on our budget to tackle this project. So, if we received council direction, we will not have to hire new staff. Will we make it work between the economic development, the finance department, the manager's office? Absolutely. But we do want to make sure um time is money, staff is money.

So, when we're working on this, and I'll just say, you guys know I administer many grants. There's lots of federal requirements. Um, so it takes a lot of staff time and quiet time. You don't you don't want to mess up. You have another question. There's other questions. I want getting back to your chamber um comment. There's a caveat with this that the senators will not accept the CDS project requests in which a nonprofit is the applicant. Right?

And it basically is stating it has to be a government or town that supports this endeavor and dark skies in this case in order to make the application or it basically goes away. So, I think that's a heavy consideration in approving or not approving or staff um wanting or not to do it, so to speak. And it kind of puts the staff on the spot actually. It was a little bit of a pickle. I'll I'll add to that real quick. Um so, it will take time and effort on staff's part.

Um we would be the administrator. Also, we'd basically be the grant recipient and uh the Dark Sky Discovery Center would be the subreient. So the money would pass through us and we would be responsible for ensuring they're complying with the requirements. The the the nice thing about that is with our direct cost, if we're spending time, we can get reimbursed from the federal government as part of this grant application process for that time.

So there will be recovery of costs, but it will take time. I think that is is a fact and there's going to be shared responsibility which is outlined in the staff summary. So, the Dark Sky Discovery Center in your agreement will be helping with the administration or for lack of a better word or be involved in some way, shape or form or that has yet to be determined based upon reciprocally with a federal grant and it's a reimbursement basis.

So the Dark Sky Discovery Center would be responsible for purchasing appropriate in this case it's a STEM exhibit. So um paying for an appropriate STEM exhibit expenditure and we would be responsible for reviewing that and drawing down the money taking the money from the federal government if it is approved and ensuring that it's being dispersed to them appropriately as well. So we have the we have the primary responsibility as a town in this case in this type of situation. Thank you.

Yes, council member. I just want to add so the the full 100% administrative part of it will solely be on staff for those checks and balances but we would work in partnership with the Dark Sky Discovery Center but they would not act as an administrator. And just again just with my experience of our other grants that I have to administer and a couple of years ago through the ARPA funding working with the feds and the and the state the prime responsibility is on staff.

Councilman Watts Paul, you said an interesting word. We get reimbursed. That means that we get to front $3 million. No, no, no. Um I'm sorry. um if that was um what what it sounded like. So, Councilman Watts or Mayor Councilman Watts um in this case, the Dark Sky Discovery Center would work through the town to request $2.5 million for the STEM exhibit.

They would be paying for the direct costs of that um to putting together that that exhibit and they would simply be submitting the receipts and evidence that they paid for it, the invoices to the town. We would use that to collect the money from the federal government. Um, and so draw down the money. The money would go into our account for a short time period and that's why we need to increase the budget to be able to make the payment or the reimbursement back to the Dark Sky Discovery Center.

There's no cost to the town other than the time and effort. Also, audit costs. We we have to get a federal audit, which we sometimes we do have to get or not. Um, and we would be able to get reimbursed from the federal government for those those direct costs. So there's no intention of the dark sky group to do anything with the STEM displays and and interactive things that they've got pri until they get the grant approved. So no money out of pocket until we get the grant approved.

We did have that discussion last week to make it clear because the federal requirements are very particular. Yeah, you have to wait until the grant is approved, awarded, and at that point then you can start. There's they call it a period of performance. It's usually a year or two years where you have to um carry out the objectives of what you stated in the application and what's allowable for the grant money. And as long as they do that, they follow the rules, we're the administrator of that.

So, we have to ensure they are doing that. And if not, we unfortunately we would not be able to submit reimbursement requests if they're not following the federal guidelines. So there could be some tough conversations with those types of things. But again, it's a little confusing when you say they have to do certain things and carry out certain functions. They need money to do that. Where are they going to get the money to do that?

Whatever those things are, it would be the money the Dark Sky Discovery Center has in their in their coffers. Um they'd be they'd be spending that. The town would not pay for those um exhibit costs up front. Okay. And from a liability standpoint, as the administer, are we going to be having somebody specific as a project manager so we can approve whatever has done and so on or has that not been worked out yet? You me and and him and and and yeah, I'd get I'd get Justin involved too.

Justin's got a good background and he's got a lot of time on his hands, right? Yeah. Yeah. Justin would be a good one. But from a liability standpoint, we have we got to carry the load with whatever expertise we have in house. Is that fair? It it is fair. Yeah, that's that's what it boils down to. I think for me the question for you is if if you believe it's in the best interest of the town to take on that time and effort that we will spend on it.

Um and and ultimately the other thing I want to emphasize it is the first step. I mean, this is just to request the funding be appropriated in the federal budget, and if it is, we still have to take several other steps before the money could be even approved. Are we going to have the opportunity to review the application prior to being submitted? Yes, Councilman Watts, we would actually be the one submitting it. So, we've already worked that out.

But if the if the council does approve this um first request, they uh the Dark Sky Discovery Center would prepare a grant application draft and we would review it, make revisions as needed, and we would be the submitter of of that request. Thank you, Councilwoman Earl.

Um, you mentioned if they weren't compliant with something and you you we are the ones that the town I should say are the ones that are going to have to watch over them for that and if they don't get in compliance and we are we what would happen if they weren't what would happen to the town then and that money there? So, um, mayor, councilwoman, it's a good question. So, we would both be subject to a federal audit. And we we don't always get those.

You have to spend over a million dollars of federal funds to um to trigger that threshold and you get a federal audit. And so, whatever they find in this case, let's say the two and a half million full amount is awarded, two and a half million would go through the town and we would be the like the gatekeeper, the keyholder for that money. Whenever the Dark Sky Discovery Center spends money, we have to make sure it's appropriate and within the confines of the grant agreement requirements.

And so, as long as we're doing that, and I will say that our accountant and myself, we have a lot of experience with audits and federal audits, so we're very familiar with the criteria.

I wouldn't say the criteria is very difficult, but going back to the liability, we we would be responsible for findings from from our perspective, the Dark Sky Discovery Center would also have to get a federal audit done on their own on their own accord and it we wouldn't technically be responsible for their audits, but since the money is going through the town and we're sending the money to them, we would be responsible for those odds.

So, let's say worst case scenario, there is a big audit finding where it was an inappropriate use of federal funds. Um, we could have an audit finding and the worst case scenario is the feds could try to recover the monies directly from us andor the dark sky discovery center. And and up to this point, what has the working relationship been between the town and the discovery center? I'll let Amanda answer that. I haven't worked too much with them.

Uh I I did recently work with one of the board members discussing this topic, but um I'll let Amanda maybe touch on that. There you are. And on the other side now, Mr. Mayor, council member Earl, I would say good one. I mean, we're here, right?

and earlier the conversations with the night sky tourist the proclamation week it goes really well with the dark sky discovery center beginning last year we have an internal project team and if something comes up um so a couple weeks ago I was able to contact um Jerry Butler and his contractors and I said hey there's been some questions rather than separate meetings with our directors which is inefficient let's just get in a room roll up the sleeves answer the questions make sure we're all on the same page age and so some of that is timely.

Um so I would say um it is good. You're welcome. Let me just quickly add that it's a big responsibility and there is liability uh if there's something that's done wrong, but I trust our staff to oversee this and we fully support the Dark Sky Discovery Center initiative. So um with that um Councilwoman Ki Vanakis. Yeah, thank you Mr. mayor and um yeah, what the mayor said is absolutely right.

I I think that there's a unonyimity of the council and the mayor to wanting this money because we all love the project, but it does come fraught with risk. Um, it's funny this comes up on tax day because I've been dealing with the federal government for like a week trying to figure out what I owe and it's been really difficult and I've gone to a few different people on what I owe and they they disagree.

So dealing with the federal government, there's nothing it's not to be taken lightly and that's what they're that's what they're asking us to do. Now, Councilwoman McMahon talked about contractually, can can we obligate the Discovery Center to do what they're supposed to do and what we're supposed to do? Technically, you can, but we're going to be the personal guarantor as the town. That's that's why they are not going going to accept um anything other than a town to to back this up.

If you look at the request, um, nonprofits wishing to participate in this program are strongly encouraged to partner with a public entity such as a local government as project sponsor. That's because we are going to be the personal guarantor. Um, that's something that we we can't take lightly. Now, there's also the issue of we're we're going to be spending funds. And again, let me go to the agenda package here. um direct costs, actual time worked, audit costs.

Um the town would request request the federal government for actual time spent providing grant administration services. So we're going to spend the money and then we're going to ask for it back. We're going to petition. It says for the money to be returned to us. I I think do I have a good read on that? because we are going to ask for the money that we spent and then it's going to be reviewed by the same government that's going to review my tax return. Mayor, Councilwoman, yes.

So, the grant is a reimbursement basis. Um, and the direct costs that we've there could be more that come up. We just really don't know. Like, for example, if we feel we cannot handle it as a staff, we could hire a consulting firm uh to do that and get reimbured from the federal government. But yes, the town would outlay the monies first. And in this case, most of that has to do with the audit cost. And in our audit, single audit is nominal. Ours is $3,000 a year.

Um, and then, uh, other than that, it would be, let's say the accountant, the senior accountant, myself, we spent 15 hours in a month. We'd have to calculate our blended, you know, cost to the town, whether it's our payroll and our benefits, and we'd have to say, okay, we spent this 15 hours based on these rates. This is how much um, we could draw down. And technically it's once it's approved that process is not that difficult. You're drawing it down.

Um so in the staff report we kind of explained the two and a half million would be for the discovery center and we'd put in $100,000 for the town. And so we'd have like a that wiggle room to request those direct costs up to $100,000 if approved. It would likely be a lot less than that depending on the amount of time amount of time we spend.

Again, ju just just to clarify as as I read the document in the language, I don't think they're going to give us that $100,000 as a slush fund because the town will also work with the IDSDC to include another $100,000 in the request to account for direct costs. But once again, that that's going to be a request. So, we are going to be providing the money up front and then we will will be requesting the money down the road.

And and that's that's what I'm a little concerned with because if the federal government deems that we didn't do it right, our audit costs are too great, our attorneys overcharged us, whatever, then they will deny those expenses, including how how many expenses were created by our town staff, which after consulting with our town manager might might be substantial.

And so again, you know, I don't want to be a wet blanket on this, but as as we as a body deliberate this, this is a very difficult decision because we are literally going to partner up with a nonprofit and and we're and we're going to put our signature on the line. And so I just I just want the people to know that no matter which way we go in this tonight, you know, this is not an easy decision. We are definitely earning our $400 this month. Yeah. 100% valid con considerations that you stated.

Uh the federal government is undergoing a lot of changes obviously and the the guidance changes year to year, but typically in my experience with federal grants, if they award you up to $100,000 for direct cost, typically you just you're able to draw them down, but you have to provide documentation. So the way that's alleviated is through the audit.

They look at what you submitted to the federal government and if there's issues they can write you a finding which the federal government receives and if there's significant issues they can come after those monies. Um so typically getting the money is not too hard but if you make mistakes along the way you can be held responsible for it at a later date. Thank you. Yeah of course. Councilman Watts.

So Paul, if I looked at this a little bit different, if I had a construction loan and I had a $2 half million dollar construction loan, I'd have a certain amount of money upfront, whether it was buying down points, whether it was just putting the the business model together. And a quick back of the envelope says that your upfront costs are going to be somewhere around 15,000 to maybe $20,000 in preparatory work in conjunction with the application, which I don't have any issue with at all.

My bigger concern is the liability and the application deadline of the 25th not being having the opportunity to look at the underlying documents and the federal government is notorious for having gotchas in those underlying documents. That's my bigger concern. So, how do we overcome that on such a short timeline? Uh, Councilman, I know our our accountant did review uh did you review the form drafted? So, he knows more about the detail. He can speak to that a little bit.

Thank you for your question. Mayor, council member. Uh, part of it go back to what Amanda said. What we're what we're filing right now is just a request for the funding and and yeah, there's not much documentation to it. It's just a form providing basic information. Uh if that does actually make it into the appropriations bill and pass, then um there's going to be a period of time between when that passes and before the federal agency opens up the grant, the actual grant application.

At that point is where we're going to get all the the documents that could have the gotchas in there that you're concerned about. So that's when we're going to get then that's when we're going to have to do the due diligence and make the decision like, okay, they wrote this into the congressional budget, but do we really want this? And that's where we will be back before council here once we actually have those documents. Uh we are not obligated to go forward with applying for that grant.

It is possible that it gets written into the bill and when we get to that point decide we don't want this. And so that's why we will definitely be back before you if it gets to that point where we have actually been able to review the documents that are going to be, you know, part of that grant agreement. So, but right now we're not to that step and those documents aren't even available to us. Okay. So, even the $15$20,000 of staff time really won't be incurred.

This the application sounds like it's relatively simple at this point. Yeah. Well, and just to get into the loop, the the kind of the rotation for who may and may not apply. Yeah. And and part of it too, like Paul spoke of period of compliance or sorry, period of performance.

um all of this upfront pre you know what we're doing now what we do to apply for the grant none of that's reimburseable that's outside the period of performance so we're not going to get any of that money back what we can charge as direct cost is within that period of performance where we're actually monitoring the compliance of the Dark Sky Discovery Center that's where that's where we have the direct cost while we're in that period of performance that we can then charge but but yeah all the time we spent last week what we'll spend to to complete this request uh once we if it does get approved all that time that we spend to do our due diligence on the documents for the grants as well as just filling out the grant application going through that process none of that is is is stuff that we'll be able to charge to the grant I understand I mean that makes that makes a lot of sense going forward on anytime you have an application on a draw draw down for a line of credit you can have mobilization overhead and so on so we would fall into that category along with whatever portion was completed that we're applying for.

Um, as long as we've got a kind of a get out of jail free card after the the simpler application to get into the rotation, then I could be a supporter. So, thank you for the answer. And just to to close a loop for you, Councilman Watts, um, we did at least scan through the request form. On the surface, it seems pretty long. There are a lot of questions, but we have already discussed that with the Dark Sky Discovery Center.

they're going to draft it all for us and then we're going to revise it as necessary to to alleviate some of that staff time especially during budget season. So, um we've taken some steps to alleviate that. Councilman Skillorn. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh way I look at it, I just see the federal government uses a state to pass through funds all the time. Uh this type of procedure is not new. Uh this is not uncommon.

It might be uncommon to us, but it's not uncommon uh for the people we're working with. Uh, so I want to say thank you to Amanda. Thank you to Rachel. Thank you, Michael. Thank you, Paul. Uh, this is the proper form of government. I make a motion to approve. I'll second, but I think we need speaker cards. Town Cler, do we have any speaker cards? Mayor, we received two online cards. They were both four. Okay. Thank you. Uh, so we have a motion and a second.

Um, can we have a roll call vote, please? If I if I may, just before we we vote, Go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, yeah, I guess since we we do have an out later, you know, that that might affect my vote, but I just again I just want to reiterate that this project was sold to this town as not being a taxpayer funded project.

And with the 30 hours or so that we have in and the hours that this town will have in in the future, which we won't be reenders for, Once again, I I just want people to know that this this is going to be partially a taxpayer funded because a lot of the funds did did come from the state.

And then now with the the town um doing inind donations with our our town staff, um you know, the the taxpayers in Fountain Hills, if they support this, you know, are supporting it with their with their money, not not just with their good intentions. I I'll just I'll just make a comment to that. I I don't think I've heard from one person in this town that isn't supportive of this project. Of course, not the project. Yeah. So, anyway, so we have a motion and a a fir a motion and a second.

Uh roll call, please. Council member McMahon, I. Council member Skellicorn, yes. Council member Earl, I. Council member Calavian, I. Council member Watts, I. Vice Mayor Tooth, I. and Mayor Fidel. Hi, Mayor 70. Thank you. And Jeff, before you leave tonight, I have this for you. May maybe I'll just bring this down to you right now. Thank you. Okay.

So we'll move on now to uh item 9C and that is uh consideration with possible action relating to resolution number 2025-15 approving updates to the town council rule of rules of procedure amended and restated April 15, 2025. Rachel uh mayor and council this was um this item is a result of the discussion that we had at our recent um work session. Uh we had that maybe two weeks ago.

Um there was quite a bit of discussion over an hour actually of discussion about the rules of procedure changes that were requested. Um we have taken those that feedback. We have drafted an updated version for your review um and potential adoption tonight. If the re if the draft in front of you needs further work or further changes, we can take that direction and bring it back again. If it meets all of your expectations, um it's open for adoption as well. Town clerk, are there any comment cards?

Yes, mayor. We have 14. We did receive 37 on online and they were all against approving it. We start with Diane Price, followed by Pam Cap. Good evening all. I'm Diane Price. I've been a resident of Fountain Hills for about 15 years. And first, I want to thank you for that really in-depth conversation you just had and all the hard work that I know you put in to to protecting our community. Why would anyone want to rid themselves of a code of ethics?

Uh why would community leaders not want to be held accountable to the people they represent. I think the answer to that's really clear. The code of ethics is a set of principles that help people understand what is considered morally right, responsible, and acceptable behavior. It protects us. It protects you. Nearly every profession has a code of ethics that they abide by. But hey, we wouldn't want any of that here in Fountain Hills, now would we? Why are we considering this change now?

Could it be because Mayor Jerry Fidell um has told a little bit of a white lie when he took credit for gaining reduction in our town's MCSO costs? Could it be because it's okay for this group to harass and intimidate Fountain Hills residents? Why now? Because Alan Skilorn intends to continue with his unwarranted attacks on the citizens of this town, if only to make a name for himself as he aspires to hire office. For those who may not be aware, I was one of Mr. Skellicorn's first targets.

I wrote a letter to the editor that was somewhat critical of the new um council people making decisions with very little information and having to take those decisions and remake them and remake them. Basically wasting our time and money. Um I wrote a letter that used the phrase ready, fire, aim. That's a common phrase that people use when they're referring to some kind of haphazard sort of behavior. Well, Mr. Skilicorn thought that my letter to the editor was equal to brandishing a gun.

He actually um filed a criminal complaint against me with the MCSO. After he did that, uh a few days later, MCSO made it clear that this complaint was without warrant. Now, figure this one out. A month later, Mr. Skillicorn sent out a national press release with my name in it, fully knowing that this had already been considered without merit his complaint.

And he wrote in that press release with his flack from Illinois that Diane Price has taken to social media and letters to the Fountain Hills Times to use gun and threatening language in reference to Skilicorn. Now, I'm a 15-year grandmother resident. I never a letter to the editor is not a gun and it was rather ridiculous. Um he I want to also say that there's a couple of things that he's been doing in terms of just covering his bases with social media. So thank you. That's the end.

I just want you to realize why a code of ethics is important. Hello again. Pam Cap, nine-year resident. Let's try it again. For months, we have heard from the Rock Council members that DEI is bad. DEI gives an unfair advantage to those not worthy. Yet, it's no surprise that the Rock majority will give themselves an unfair advantage that they are not worthy of. The plan is to erase all ethic violations that are on the record for past and present council members.

The plan also includes removing comp the complaint process. This affects every resident and only benefits the council. Sound familiar? Skilly Korn was and still is guilty of violating Fountain Hills ethics requirements, but this lets him off the hook. He and the council will willingly deny us, and that's everybody in this room, deny our first amendment right, which which states, "We the people have the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances. You are the government.

Without the complaint process, residents will lose this. Council member Skilly Alen Skillicorn is a politician who started his chaos campaign back in Illinois. While serving as an Illinois state representative, Skillorn had an ethics violation and criminal fraud complaint filed against him. He was caught lying about being president in Springfield on June 1st, 2019.

Skillicorn claimed he was present on the floor of Springfield voting on various bills when he was actually 220 miles away walking in a parade. He even posted photos on his own Facebook page. Skillicorn voted on 23 of the 26 bills. That is fraud in Illinois. Soon after Skillicorn fled Illinois for Arizona, before Council member Skiillicorn was even elected, he was thrown out of town hall for causing a disruption over his illegally placed and unregistered pack signs.

Skillicorn broke Arizona law and the Fountain Hills sign ordinance. And that was just the beginning. On September 16th, 2023, Skillicorn chased down our code code infe enforcement officer. I'm sure we all saw the police video. During that incident, not only did Skillorn break traffic laws, his ethics clause, he also lied to the Maricopa County Sheriff's deputy seven times when he was asked if he was flashing the lights and honking the horn in an attempt to stop the code enforcement officer.

After every excuse under his son, his answer was no, which was an absolute lie. Before because of his actions and unprofessional behavior, Skillicorn was sanctioned and required a responsible adult to be with him when interacting with st town staff. He has aggressively confronted department heads, accusing them of lying without evidence. He made veiled threats against town town staff, placing them in fear. Don't take away our right. We have a right to to address me.

Mayor Beth Culp, followed by Liz Gildersleeve. Good evening, Beth Culp, Fountain Hills resident for nine years now. Um, I have to say that I'm very very concerned that the town attorney is not in attendance here tonight because I think that this town council is has got very very serious conflicts here. Four members of the council, Councilman Skellicorn, who's going to get a clean slate and have his past sort of magically wiped away. He shouldn't vote on this if section 10 is coming out.

And the magical thinking and it is magical thinking is that if section 10 goes away, it retroactively applies to Skilicorn and he is can go forth and say, "See, I told you I was there was a witch hunt and now I've been vindicated." And for you, Mayor Fidel, you clearly have a conflict of interest. You know you do. There's a pending claim against you. It was referred to outside council by the town attorney because he found my complaint to be facially valid.

And council member McMahon and council member Calvayanakis, you too have a conflict voting on this. There are pending claims against you. The town attorney does not have the power or the authority to place those on administrative hold, nor does he have the authority to dismiss them, consider them null and void. He found them all to be facially valid. They need to be taken for forward to the end process before you can vote on eliminating section 10.

As to the other provo, you know, proposed revisions to the ethics code, I say you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater and the baby is worth saving. You could have taken more time looking at these provisions, put some definition into the the issues that are presented in it as council member Watts suggested, but throwing it all away under the under this situation. I mean, every meaty provision, throwing it away, the optics are terrible. They are terrible.

The mayor has a very very serious complaint in the on the in the Fountain Hills Times. He made a misrepresentation. This is this just looks bad and the press is going to pick it up and they're going to say something stinks in Fountain Hills. Do the right thing. Put this aside now. Take some time. Look at the put put put some meat into it that means something but don't take away the people's rights please. Good evening all. Liz Gildersleeve, Fountain Hills resident.

I do like the changes presented to the rules of procedure tonight, especially eliminating the current ethics code. The ethics code, unfortunately, has been weaponized against some and completely ignored by others on this council and previous councils. So, it seems a waste of taxpayer money, not to mention your time, the public's time in expecting fairness and uniform application.

Like for example, just a couple of meetings ago, council member McMahon and council member Mallalianis disparaged fellow council members from the deis along with members of the public, which is a direct violation of the current ethics code. I was one of those people who Calavianis not only disparaged but also spouted out wrong information as fact during a council meeting.

Because of chamber decorum rules, neither I nor the other members of the audience who were openly disparaged were allowed to respond in the moment to correct Calvianis because Calivianis did so cowardly from the deis. As I understand it, the two or the ethics complaints against Calivian Calvianis and McMahon are still pending as you debate these rules of procedure tonight or changes tonight and I'm all for that.

Frankly though, I think most residents would rather you all spend your time taking care of substantive town issues such as creating an ordinance for code enforcement sober home inspections, 5G, rigorous road repairs, and looking for ways to be better fiscally responsible and not grow the size of our town government has been happening the last 5 years. These are just a handful of significant issues needing immediate attention. So get rid of the ethics code and the noise. That's all it is.

People will decide at the ballot box whether your behavior is acceptable or night or not. Pure and simple. Thank you for your time. Mayor, we have Barry Wulorski and Kim Worski. I'm going to bury half of that. So, I'm going to talk not about number 10. Sorry, guys. It's not exciting. I'm going to talk about item 42B1, which conflicts with item 42A. 42A says agenda items must be posted on the Thursday prior to the meeting, but 42B1 says on Monday prior to the meeting.

I don't think you can do both. I'm opposed to the change to make it back to Monday again. Um especially since now uh people have to get their written comments in by noon on Monday. So what if you post something at 12:01 on a new agenda item at 12:01 on Mon on Monday? Nobody can comment on it, right? Is that what you want? Um, residents will have no chance to comment because the deadline is already gone. Uh, this is not open government.

My argument is the same for item 44 regarding changes to the agenda items that the changes should also be posted in a timely manner so residents can read them and respond. Item 52E2 public comment time limits. This change is the antithesis of democracy and the one person one vote principle. Uh it could lead to cronyism which allows people who support the council mayor or the manager's position more time than those who people who oppose it.

It is the opposite of what each of you proposed as your goals in office when you ran for this office. You said that you wanted to make the mayor and the council more responsive to the voters. This ain't that. This is making you the decision of who gets to talk how long and not everyone is equal. It kind of reminds me of George Orwell and that some animals are more equal than others.

Uh this is the kind of thing that energizes your opport opposition and the next election cycle is only a little over a year away. Please omit this rule from your changes. Let's keep this council responsive to the people. Hello. And I'm the Kim half of the Worskis. Can you hear me through this crazy mask? Um, I also want to speak about the time changes on this uh section 2.1. Oh, mayor council.

Um section 2.1 proposes the change the content of the agenda may not be changed after 72 from after 72 hours prior and then it's going to change it to the Thursday prior. Now this assumes that the meeting will always be on a Monday. It doesn't allow for holidays or special meetings. I think this should continue to be x hours, x days or x business days. Section 4.2.b1 is the same issue. It says changes from two business days to Monday. Um let's see. Section five, item 5.2 under the agenda.

Same thing. It changes um 48 hours to the Thursday prior to the meeting. And section 6.62, same thing. It changes 48 hours to the Thursday prior to the meeting. Now, you guys may have a reason for that, but I don't understand it. Um, the other thing is on section 43C, this proposes changing agenda change due date from 72 hours prior to the council meeting to 24 hours. I think this is fine for removing items, but I don't think it's good for adding items.

It doesn't allow time for residents to review and research proposed changes, such as the 35page document attached to this. It took me a couple hours to get through it, which I can't believe I did that. I need clearly I need more something else to do. Actually, I'm incredibly busy. I don't have that much extra time every day. For example, over the weekend, I was extremely busy frantically getting my project ready for the recycled art project and I there's no way I was looking at this.

So, thanks everybody in the community center for putting that on. Um, and then last, this section item 52E2, which allowing for extra time during the call to the public. I'd like you to clarify this if you can. I really, really have appreciated the short and more even-handed calls to the public that have been instituted lately, and I don't want to lose that. I understand there may be a use for waving time limits to allow for clarification or to let someone finish a sentence.

And if this is for that, can you please can you could you maybe specify an additional time limit such as 1 to three minutes here? Again, I don't see need for it and I think it's a slippery slope.

I'm not clear on what is the purpose of allowing people to ask for extra time beforehand from the town manager, but I do want to say I really like the following section where it says speakers may not a reserve a portion of their time for a later time or b transfer any portion of their time to another speaker. And so out of this 35page document, this is what I found to complain about. So overall, I'm good. Thanks, Mayor Cindy Coutur, followed by Ryan Yari and Linda Somo. Mayor Fidel and council.

I'm Sandy Couture and I'm a longtime member of this town. Um, when a candidate wins the position of council member, he or she begins to represent all of us in this town. You surrender a certain amount of liberty when you're sworn into this position. The people of this town expect all of you to represent us in person as well as on social media with respectful and ethical behavior.

Currently, the people in this town are being heinously misrepresented on social media by some members of this council. I have just two hateful examples, and you'll excuse my words, but they were posted. A current council member posted the phrase, "Damn Jews." That person also posted the phrase, "Black lives don't matter." That is not an appropriate representation of our town. The ethics policy needs to remain intact.

The possibility for sanctions when ethics are violated needs to remain intact and someday the tables may be turned and you may need to file an ethics complaint to be heard. Thank you, Mayor Council. My name is Renee Yarian and I'm a long-term Fountain Hills member. A code of ethics is a professional conduct that outlines the principles that govern decisions and and behaviors.

A code of ethics is broad, giving employees or members a general idea of what types of behavior and decisions are acceptable and encouraging. The towns around us all have codes of ethics. Scottsdale has a code of ethical behavior. The city of Phoenix uses three different significant policies. The city of Mesa has a separate ethics handbook for elected officials and they hold appointed boards and commissions accountable to those.

The city of Peoria has a separate code of ethics handbooks and a code of conduct. The prologue of the city of surprise has the policies and procedures manual is the Athenian code followed by written rules of conduct and demeanor requiring the city of surprise to uphold, promote, and demand the highest standards of ethics from all of its officials, whether elected or appointed. The Gilbert Town Council also has a formal code.

The current Fountain Hills code of ethics contains sections 8.1 through 8.10. This resolution that's proposed guts the last half of that. It completely eliminates the com compliance and enforcement. And that's a vital part of an ethics policy. An ethics complaint is the only tool that citizens have to hold council members accountable for their decisions and actions. There are clear rules about how complaints are to be filed. The council is asking to completely eliminate that. And why is that?

It's due to blatant violations. The sanctions that have already been filed and put in place should be honored and continued. The new complaints that were filed according to current rules should be investigated and treated accordingly. In fact, it seems totally unethical to erase the rules that erases the violations. Changing the rules after the fact does not change the fact that lying is wrong. Lying is always wrong. Holding people accountable for lying is a responsible action.

Fountain Hills deserves no less than ethical and responsible behavior from all members of city government. Ethics matter. It is a violation of public trust to believe that merely erasing that part of the code makes unethical behavior acceptable. There's free training in ethics and city government available and even required by some cities. So I believe that Fountain Hills needs to maintain their code of ethics and for sure to have the compliance and enforcement enforced.

Linda Somo followed by Alan Magazine and then Crystal Kavanaaugh. Thank you Mayor Fidell. Council members, my name is Linda Somo and I've been a resident of Fountain Hills for seven years. Um, the previous speaker made all the points I would make. So, I could just say ditto and sit down, but um, you know, why waste three minutes? So, um I would like to say that trying when I vote, one of the first things I look for in a candidate is ethical behavior.

To say that our town will do away with the standard of ethics for this council is unbelievable to me. It's I I can't even fathom why you would consider doing that other than trying to do away with certain ethical accusations that have been made recently or have been made in the past. As to Mr. Skilicorn, that has already been adjudicated. He was found guilty of misbehavior and unethical behavior.

he was given sanctions and to try and remove those after the fact when it doesn't appear that he has learned at all from previous behavior and tried to change it in any way uh is just ridiculous. Um, Mayor Fidel, I will compliment you that when I wrote to you uh after seeing the article in the uh the Fountain Hills Times, you responded very quickly to my email and told your side of the story.

However, you kept saying in your emails that because of the meeting or a direct result of the meeting was to save the city of Fountain Hills money is an outright mis um representation of the truth. I won't call it a lie, but it certainly wasn't accurate. you knew very specifically that that savings had been made previous to your meeting with MCSO and that maybe you just found out about it at that time but there's a cause and effect relationship.

If you say something is the result of a meeting that means that the meeting was the cause of the effect and you know that it was not. Thank you. Mayor, members of the council, Allen Magazine, um I want to look Mr. Skilicorn in the eye and say I'm a damn Jew. Let me go on from there. Citizen citizens need a code of ethics that is precise and understandable. This one absolutely is not. And citizens badly need a redress of the grievances.

Otherwise, it's it's going to be absolutely free range here to say anything you want. I give you uh fixing existing code in my view is a waste of time since it's so vague as to be meaningless and misunderstood. Here's a few examples. Mutual respect and trust. Some of you would likely be in violation in my opinion. How does one define mutual respect and trust? Maintain public confidence in town government. How does one go about doing that?

Shall conduct our official and personal affairs in such a manner as to give clear impression that we cannot be improperly influenced in the performance of our official duties. How does one do that? What would a suspected violation look like? Refrain from making disparaging remarks about other members of the council, staff, etc. How does one determine what is a disparaging remark?

Many of the parts of the code are just open to interpretation and I don't think the citizens should put any faith in this code of ethics and I would urge you to write a new one. Thank you. Good evening. I am in support of clarifying our town code procedures and removing section 10. My initial reaction to se section 10 ethics revisions was that it seemed pretty selfserving.

In full disclosure, I had an ethics complaint filed against both Calabianakis and McMahon that was in the active investigation stage and nearly completed. But after further consideration, I fully support just getting rid of section 10, which would also wipe out pending complaints, active investigations, future complaints, as well as current sanctions hopefully. Our ethics process was often not carried out fairly anyway, in my opinion.

Our code that defines conduct uses pretty broad terms, but part of the community's frustrations have involved those ethics complaints that have been filed in good faith that were not nitpicky and had clear justifications per our code. These were routinely sent out to handpick costly outside attorneys, taking longer than necessary with billable hours, only to usually come back unfounded and sometimes rationalized with semantics or word games such as she requested that staff remove it.

She didn't direct staff to remove it. Then there have been other decisions such as skillicorns that have addressed perceived trumped up threats towards code enforcement or allegations of fearfilled staff that seem almost to have had a predetermined outcome. And even when proof was uncovered that a question to fellow council members was indeed legitimate, sanctions harsher than ever issued before were still applied and remain in effect even now.

A simple apology from Skeleorn would have been sufficient just as it had been requested from former Councilman Allen Magazine after his second episode of founded ethics violations. I'm very supportive of clarifying any town code procedures that are hazy. I also strongly support removal of section 10 regarding ethics complaints. And let's hope any resulting frivolous lawsuits get tossed swiftly. Then we just let the chips fall where they may. We can all embrace and celebrate free speech.

Of course, property decorum from the deis would be a welcome bonus, but if you'd rather show us otherwise, go for it. the public can make their own judgments about it but about what is or isn't acceptable behavior. Thank you. Mayor, our last two speakers have marked may speak. So Elijah Norton uh well I was speaking about uh the next resolution but can I go ahead and do it now? D okay I'll move you there. Okay, thanks. That's the end of the speakers. Actually, actually, you know what?

I'll just speak about this because it kind of goes into what I was saying if that's okay. Sorry. My name is Elijah Norton. I'm the former treasur of the Arizona Republican Party.

Um, here on behalf of myself, I just want to say that people have the ability to make their decisions at the ballot box and we should not be stripping elected representatives who were elected by the thousands of people in any town in this state uh of their abilities uh to serve uh or diminishing their abilities to serve once they're elected. And that's my opinion what happened. And I think that we should allow our citizens to make their decisions for who represents them at the ballot box.

That's why I'm here today. So, thank you. Town clerk, that's it. Vice Mayor, I feel as though there's been a slight misunderstanding. So, for the sake of clarification, we still have our ethics code. And should there be egregious issues, our recommendation as discussed at a previous meeting would be you can complain to the ombbudsman, which is the purpose of that office. You can recall a a person on this council or you can make that decision at the next election on the ballot box.

Um, personally, I feel as though this horse was fairly thoroughly beaten at the last meeting, so I would like to motion to approve. I second that. Could we please have discussion? Councilwoman. Okay. There have been allegations and we um conflicts of interest. um our town attorney is not here to legally advise on that and advise on withdrawal or the status. And so I'm wondering if and it's not particularly stated on this that they would be erased on this document and in the mo motion.

So, I'm wondering if we should bifurcate section 10, deal with all the rest of the changes, and then when Aaron's here, address section 10. Councilman Earl. Oh, sorry. No. Okay. because I'm concerned because of this complaint against four of us and I want to make sure that it's not a conflict of interest to address this. Councilwoman, yeah, thank you, Jerry. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Um I I do have some mundane points of that I'd like I'd like to discuss but before we just vote on 10 because we still have many other items in this topic to changes to the code that I would like to discuss just just briefly but um it was it was since we're going to do C and D separately I it was my understanding that the skillicorn sanctions would not be released believed with a yes vote to option one, but they would be litigated or talked about separately. Is that your understanding, Mr.

Mayor? Okay. Yeah. So, tonight, whether we do vote for option number one or we do vote for option number two, that'll still go the Alen Skilicorn sanctions will still be an agenda item to be discussed separately. And and so um whe whether we eliminate section 10 in its entirety or if we just direct the town attorney to come back with a better code, that's that's still what we're just talking about right now.

And so I I hope this doesn't get too superheated like it seems to have been because um we're we're just working on what many of the council members perceived is um possibly serial offenders for filing ethics complaints that maybe some of which weren't done legitimately but to to do damage to one side or the other. And so I think all all of us when with the work session kind of agreed that we were to tamp that down. Um we we wanted to change the way we're doing it.

And so that's where we are today. Um as far as the things that I did want to talk about was, you know, section 2.7 to remove news newspaper um not notifications. You know, I I I think that I I would still like to do newspaper notifications to the public on items that goes before the town and not just do it digitally. Um section 4.2, it says an agendaized item uh that is put on the agenda by three council members has to be put on the on the agenda within three meetings.

I have no problem with that. But if the town manager runs into a circumstance that it's not ready, it's not ripe, it's not ready to go, I think that um the three meeting rule should be she could put a memo out saying we are going to have to do this at a later date because we are not prepared to put this on an agenda to to the council. It's just not ripe yet.

And so I I'd just like to a slight amendment to say the direction is to put it within the next three meetings unless that isn't possible to be deemed by the town manager and then we will uh she can issue a memo why it's not possible. So that's the other thing.

And then the the last thing is um as far as the call the public, we're changing that from three minutes to three minutes except for if the council, the mayor, the manager or the the attorney u want to give the call to the public people more time. Um, I'm a little uncomfortable with that because even though we are supposed to have nonpartisan elections and and be nonpartisan on this council, it's it's proven pretty clear that there is a lot of partisanship going on.

And so, you know, when when one party is perceived to take over, they'll let their speakers speak longer when the other party speaks. So I think a the fair rule the the way that everybody knows it's being treated fairly is to take the discretion away from the council and the mayor and the town attorney and again give give that to the town manager. We have an important speaker. They are requesting more time.

Could you be the arbiter of that so that we leave the the politicians and people that are perceived to be partisan out of the decision-making process and and have a neutral person um say, "Yeah, this is an important issue. Let's give them seven minutes instead of three. So th those are the modifications I'd like to make. Councilman, thank you, Mr. Mayor. My direction actually is for the town manager.

Uh would you mind talking about the posting requirements that was were mentioned in public comment uh and just give us a rundown because I I have feeling that we discussed this pretty thoroughly, but want to give your intention so it's part of the debate. I can do that. Hang on one second while I find that section. Um because I have the one of them was uh 43C. There was uh 2.1. I didn't write down the letter. Hang on one second. And then there was no um the amendments was at 52E.

Uh but there's a specific reason for why we had that timing. Correct. That one I'm I'm more familiar with just because it's it is consistent with what we've had in the past. Um the first one you said was 43C. Uh as it's written, amendments uh posted agenda may be amended up to 24 hours prior to the meeting. An exceptional circumstance and agenda may be amended up to but not less than 24 hours prior to the meeting unless otherwise um authorized by state law.

And there was another question about the Thursday versus Monday. Correct. Um in general, we have moved previously in our uh rules of procedure, it was noted that deadlines were on were 24 hours before a Thursday. Thursdays used to be our meeting nights. If you were a a longtime participant of our council meetings, council meetings used to be on Thursdays. Obviously, they are now on Tuesdays. The rules of procedure just didn't reflect that change of meeting day.

Um, so that is where why that has been moved. The 24-hour rule is consistent with what state statute requires. Um, and so we just kind of we stuck with that to be consistent. If that wants if you if there's a request to change there, we can certainly do that. But it was designed to be consistent with state. Does that answer your question? Yes. Thank you very much. Sure. Thank you. I'd like to make a motion to call the previous question. Second. No discussion. We we have to vote on that question.

The question's been called. So, we need a uh roll call vote on that. Please, is that voting on what? Brenda. No, the question's been called to stop discussion and then we go back to the original motion. Council member Calvianis. Well, I would obviously be against ending debate. This every town council meeting we have this coming up. Um, we're asking we're asking for a vote, but being weaponized. This is being weaponized because we are here to debate this issue.

I asked for three minor amendments that would make this section better. No, we're not going to get to end debate. We'll ask we'll ask for a u an amendment to the to the motion does that what's your nay? Council member Skilicorn, yes. Council member Earl, I. Council member McMahon, no. Council member Watts, no. Vice Mayor Toth, I. And Mayor Fidel, I. Mayor 43, can we continue with discussion? No, we can't. Yes, we can. Yes, we can. Well, yeah, on the original motion, it's not a debate.

It's a I want to discuss what I want added into this. Oh, that's right. Two3. Yeah, you're right. Okay, Councilwoman, thank you. I appreciate it. Um, I have a question about 1.6 and changing it. Um, Rachel, can you explain the difference? Is there any difference in that in the calculation or what does it do um to those served or I mean I'm trying to understand why the change please. Uh this has to do with the vice mayor rotation. Yes.

So this is consistent with how we have applied the vice mayor. The vice mayor serves and in eightmonth increments. Um it rotates and it's based on uh the number of votes okay thank you received. So, this just clarifies that if you were voted outright in the um for in in the primary, you take priority over anybody that came in via the general, if that makes sense. Okay. Thank you. In addition, on 6.6, Six, casting a vote.

It says um if there's a conflict of interest, the town clerk shall include a statement as abstained due to declaration of conflict and the council member shall file a conflict of interest form.

um the attorney general's rules and the state statute goes on to say that um you you make your substantial interest known and then for the member of the council this can be done by either declaring at a council meeting that a conflict exists and having declared officially in the minutes filing a written declaration with the town clerk andor making the declaration asking that the minutes be um copied and used that and use that as the claim versus making a separate claim, writing up a separate claim.

So, I would like the um that area that section to coincide with the Arizona statutes and the attorney general statute to be more to more thorough and clear and have it be andor. And also I would like to um keep in section 8. I think that it's it's still um the code of ethics. I thought when we were talking in the work session about these amendments that we would in keep section 8 in our code of ethics.

So, I would like the motion to include a more thorough um conflict of interest in concert with the attorney general and the Arizona statutes and also to include um our code of um all of section 8, 81, 82, etc. in our code of ethics. So, that we have a code of ethics. I I believe section 8 was just being amended, not eliminated. Well, there's a lot of things that are crossed out of it that I thought that I don't want to see crossed out of it. I think that they're necessary.

I think that they provide guidelines for us. And I again when we were talking about this in work session it was my understanding that this would the whole section would remain intact. I don't recall any discussion going through these individually.

I think that without these that we don't really have a code of ethics or uh necessary guidelines for us to follow for for us to have a reference point to as the town attorney said as well and I believe it was his understanding that all of these were staying into he said when I asked him well given that he approved this agenda item he knows exactly what the draft presented before us tonight is. Yeah.

I it's consistent with what was provided um during that discussion um based on uh Vice Mayor Toth's um draft and it was discussed there. It's really a council decision of whether we take it out or we leave it. I will say during that discussion the majority gave the indication that they wanted it removed. It doesn't have to be. It's still open for discussion. That's why we're here tonight. Yeah, I don't want it removed. I would like it to remain in.

I think that it is a good reference point for us and guideline. It's a good reference point and guideline for our public. And in fact, we have heard them state that they don't want this section omitted. And I think that it's important that it stays it stays in. I don't think there's any harm in it. Again, I think it provides us with guidance and a touchstone for our conduct and understanding um how we conduct in accordance with our oath of office and provides more depth and clarity.

So, I would like the motion to include all of the section in the red lines, add them back in. Councilman Watts. Um I I think that there were a lot of the speakers had a lot of good points that some inconsistencies in the document itself that we should look at. Again, I also think that we did not provide enough information as to your alternates as opposed to what is in uh section 10. You can go to the state ombudsman. You can go to the attorney general. You can recall. You can sue the town.

So you should promote, you should at least offer options. If you're going to eliminate one way to do something, you should option give an option to do the other way. I I think that in lie of doing that, I think that we ought to give it back to council, not our council, but our attorney, and include more definitive, descriptive definitions, as well as specific violations and specific punishments for those violations as as opposed to the ambiguity that we've got now.

Um, when we get to the next issue, the ambiguity is what drives me crazy. There are so many things that occurred that were they they weren't worthy of the punishment that was received and I think that goes to the lack of definition as to what the violation or the infraction was. So go to that. So I think we're missing definitions.

I think that we're we we're missing making sure that we've provided options and I think we ought to look at it in more detail and review in in consideration of the comments were made by the public as well. Councilwoman Earl, I just want to clarify. I thought we had a motion and it was seconded to approve as is. Correct. And then we had to call the question. Doesn't that end? That was voted down. Oh, it did not. V. Okay. Can I call the question again? No. Can we vote now, please? Second.

Councilwoman. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I seconded the call to the question. And what I'd just like to do is um in L of what Council Member Watts just stated, and we do need clarification when we vote for this on option one or option two.

would I would like to file an an amendment to the main motion uh to amend to my three minor upgrades to the rest of the code and to uh vote and to put option two on my amended motion, which would mean sending it back to the town attorney to clear it up, give it some meat on the bones to avoid the problem of the harassing complaints, but to do something that people that out there still want to be able to file complaints against. um the mayor and councel if if we merit it.

And so my my motion to amend would be my three amendments plus option two. And can I get a second? Second. Can I get a third? And I have a clarification too. We have not dealt with the original motion and second that are on the table right now. Go first. I have an amendment too from what I previously stated as well with including all of section 8. I make a motion to amend the motion and include all of section 8, our code of ethics. Yes.

And I still haven't had my question answered about about a conflict of interest. You can't second the second a it's already been the amendment. We have to vote on the amendment. I'm making a different amendment. I'm adding an amendment. You can't layer amendments. You have to vote on the one. Oh, okay. Well, okay. Let's vote on yours. I wish the town attorney was here to provide guidance. Pardon me. Vice Mayor. I assume we'll be voting on the motion to amend shortly, so I'll keep this short.

I excuse me, please. Um, I have a question if I'm allowed to ask through the mayor to council member Calvian Aus. I know that's not standard. Is that okay? My question is would that therefore continue the pending complaints? Uh given that that was the previous discussion, if we do keep 10 in and and whatnot, would we therefore be calling back that attorney and continuing the investigations? Is that your understanding?

Yeah, thank that's a very relevant question and thank you for asking that Hannah because um the the pending complaints have been dismissed. Had they not been dismissed then this council would all be conflicted.

Council member Skilicorn, the mayor, myself, and and Peggy, Council Member McMahon, the the only reason we are allowed to vote on this, and this was discussed prior to this meeting at length is the only we reason we can vote on this because otherwise we would have literally had to file a motion to table to appoint that we would have a quorum because with four people not being able to vote, we wouldn't have a quorum. And so I did talk to the town manager.

I talked to the town attorney that he did call Sarah the ethics complaint attorney and told her that they were dropping all the complaints. Send us the bill. So just to sorry but super duper clarify although they have been stopped. Should we approve these amendments tonight? Would we be calling that attorney back to continue? Yes or no? No. They they they've been dismissed with with prejudice. I need to ask that question. Understood. In that case, I'm against any amendments.

I got one more question. Town town clerk, can you weigh in on on these uh proposed uh amendments? Mayor, you should vote on each amendment by themselves. They stand alone. That's what I thought. Thank you. I wanted clarification. So, just so I can clarify, I there was an there was a motion on the table and seconded. Then, Council Member Kivinoakus made a an amended motion and I believe it was seconded. Is that correct? So, that takes the priority.

That's the one you need to vote on first and then depending on how that goes, take the next steps. Roll call, please. So this is the amendment made by council member Calabine Nakis. Council member Earl. Nay. Council member Skilicorn. No. Council member McMahon. Hi. Council member Calivian. Hi. Council member Watts. I still have a question. Was the Were the the infractions paused or stopped? The last I heard they were paused. They they stopped completely. Nay. Uh Vice Mayor Toth. Nay.

And mayor Fredette. Nay. Mayor the nays have it. 5 to two. Now we have to vote on the second amendment which was No, the actual motion. Oh, the actual motion. No, I I made a motion to amend on to include all of section 8 section 8 and the section 6.6 about voting and including um the alternate way to um file a conflict of interest statement. Okay. Just use the record. Was there a second for that? I did not hear one. Did someone second? motion. No second. Now I go back to the original motion.

We have a motion and a second. Again, if I can just make a point of order. Are I'm not sure if we're voting for option one or option two. That's got to be made clear. Vice Vice Mayor, do you want to weigh in on that? Option one or two? Yes, I'm scrolling up. I apologize. Okay. Sorry, my motion was to approve. Okay. Yeah. Let me go to page 62 to make sure I'm speaking [Music] correctly. Approve eliminating section 10 of the council rules of procedure. Is that what option one is? Yes.

And then the other corrections as as shown in our packet. The other redlinined items. Correct. Okay. Option one. If I may, I'll re if I can restate. If you want me to restate option one, please do. That's okay.

It's moved to um adopt resolution number 2025-15 approving updates to the town council rules of procedures amended and restated April 15, 2025 and to approve the elimination of section 10 in its entirety with the effect of eliminating the complaint procedure for alleged violations of the code of ethics. I confirm my second. Roll call. Please don't click. Council member Watts. We do an option one or option two? Option one. It is option. Sorry, I get lost here.

I still think we need definitions and more discussion, but uh yeah. I council member Calvianis. Council member Skilicorn. Yes. Council member McMahon. Nay. Council member Earl I. Vice Mayor Toth I. And Mayor Fidell. I. Mayor 52. Oh, sorry. Yeah. 52. Sorry. Okay. Um, agenda item D, consideration and possible action, review and remove the sanctions previously imposed on council member Alan Skillerorn. I make a motion to accept that. Second. I'd like discussion, please. Hold it.

Are there any comment cards? Town clerk. Yes, mayor. We received 23 online, all against, and then we've received six speaker cards. First speaker is Diane Price, followed by Beth Culp. Thank you, Diane Price. Um, again, a Fountain Hills resident for 15 years. Uh, this has been really a clown show. I mean, honestly, all you lost all of us. We don't know where you're going with this. Where's the attorney? Is there no longer a complaint procedure? I didn't finish what I what I talked about in 9C.

So, I will finish that. Um, there was a time when I went ahead and um communicated directly with Councilman Skilicorn. He never ever gave me the courtesy of responding personally. Um, I know that council member Cav Cavalinais and McMahon are always open to talking to people that might have disparate points of view, respectfully, not filing a criminal complaint against somebody who wrote a letter to the editor. So, he does hide behind his social media.

I I wanted to mention that this was going to be my closure for me of this whole horrible situation that he put me in. Um, he defamed me. He defamed my business and he defamed me nationally. It's created tremendous trauma in my life as a citizen of Fountain Hills. Who cares about Fountain Hills? That's why I'm here. Um I want you to know that this is closure, but he does respond on social media. One of the things I want to um share with you is one of the things he posted is I don't want unity.

Not on the establishment terms. I want to beat them and humble them and then I want them to kiss my ring. Does that sound familiar? Sounds familiar to me. He also wrote another projorative statement on social media. Someone needs to introduce these transvestites and to a to an AR-15. Mr. Mayor, can you stop her from saying blatant lies of social media grow post that she very well may created? No, these are not lies and I did not create them. Why didn't you not answer me? Point of order.

This is violation of our public comment rules. No, it's not. This is a personal attack. You personally attacked me and you deserve this. So, I'm going to finish. I filed a complaint, an ethics complaint, and even though it was extraordinarily valid, it was dismissed. Not my complaint was unfounded. Allen won. He won this one. But he did not and should not escape the sanctions that he received when he intimidated town employees.

Their jobs are hard enough without having to deal with unnecessarily contrary behavior of unproductive council persons. When this group votes to relieve themselves of ethical principles, the accepted mode of behavior will continue to be ready, fire aim. Beth Culp, followed by Linda Somo. Good evening. Um, we had a petition drive. We had a written petition and we had an online petition. And I'm here tonight to present you with um signatures of a little over 300 Fountain Hills residents.

Some are on the handwritten and some are on the online petition. Um, and here's what they were asked to sign. Um to the mayor and members of the town council of Fountain Hills, please be advised that the undersigned residents of Fountain Hills oppose removing the sanctions imposed on Alan Skilicorn for his unethical conduct that included assaulting and defaming a town code enforcement officer, falsely accusing fellow town council members of corruption and bullying staff.

And attached to that is a is a very well-known photograph of uh of Councilman Skilicorn with Mr. Luchesi when he's got Mr. Luchi looks like he's got his hands up. He's surrendering himself to Skilicorn and Skilicorn wrote this video is why Fountain Hills changed its unconstitutional sign ordinance. And at the bottom of it he says Skilicorn versus sign thief. This is after the fact.

He is so unapologetic and so brazen in his cruelty and his meanness that the idea of removing the sanctions that were imposed against him. This is not silliness. Council member Watts, you talked about the silliness. This is a member of our our public body, our public official who chased down a town code enforcement officer and then did not was not straightforward with the deputy and then later he continues to taunt the town employee online and he's taunted me many times. many times.

He's responsible. Many of us understand that he is responsible for creating false profiles, hacking people's media, creating false websites. He is a destructive man who likes to think about himself as as an agent of chaos. And he's brought chaos to our community. And I ask you, please change the sanctions, modify the sanctions, but he's he's going to go out and he's going to say, "I won. I won." And he's going to gloat and and it will be bad for all of us.

Please think really hard about this, Linda. So, I meant to turn this into these are the petition Linda Somo followed by Ed Stza. Okay, Ed Stza. And then there's Elijah Norton. He left. We have one speaker left. Ed Stesa. Good evening, Ed Stesa, resident Fountain Hills. Um, what do you say to that mess? Boy, I'll tell you. Um, you know, uh, when this happened, uh, to Allan Skellicorn, and I'll say happened to Alan Skellicorn.

Uh, four, uh, three town council members and two are still sitting up there right now. and our previous mayor uh went after and publicly castrated Allen Skiilicorn. So, um I think that everything that was said that day was unnecessarily said to the public. So, this stuff should be handled behind closed doors. I mean, that's all there is to it. And to bring this out into the public, to let bodies like this sit here and just make it worse, uh, doesn't make a whole lot of sense, you know.

So, seems to be a little backwards here. And, uh, certainly the sanction should be released. I think people are making a much bigger deal about it. And I don't see where, you know, just piling on consistently uh does any good whatsoever. And guys are starting to spin around the whole problem. You don't even see it. So maybe should correct all of it. And so should the public. You know, our town, you know, they it is looking pretty dire as far as the public attitude. And it's too bad.

So glad I only really don't focus on politics, but focus on the aesthetics of the town. And it's too bad we don't all do the same. So try to get it all solved without making a public disaster of everything. So I'm done, but I don't know if Peggy wants to say something. So thank you. Town clerk, any more speakers? That's the last speaker. Okay, thank you. Uh, Vice Mayor to uh, Councilwoman McMahon was ahead of me if that's okay. Council, thank you very much.

I I don't really appreciate the most recent comments having been on council for four years and experienced council member Skilicorn and his bad acts. And to me, it's an honor to be elected as a member of the Talin Hills Town Council. I've done my best to uphold that oath of office and the standards of ethical conduct that come with serving this important role. And I believe most of us here have strived to do the same throughout our time in office and be accountable.

Unfortunately, I honestly cannot say that for council council member Skillicorn who proudly refers to himself as the agent of chaos. In my opinion, this does not reflect honorable conduct nor respect for the office to which he was elected. A year ago, he um was lawfully sanctioned for egregious behavior and clear disrespect for the responsibilities of his position. An ethics complaint was filed an outside legal counsel and he had violence. I I have a right to comment and talk about this.

I thought we weren't going to be disparaging against each other. I'm not disparaging. Thank you. I'd like to call the question because this conversation will only devolve. Don't do that. I'm in the middle of making I'd like to call and talking about it and that's extremely rude and that is a misuse. May I get a second? Thank you. Please, me, both of you. Wait, I'm in the middle of making a comment and I've been rudely interrupted.

I don't think we need to have disparaging remarks made on the dasis of another council member. Jerry, finish your finish your talk. I'm going to finish it. Thank you. Um, you know, the fact of the matter is is that ethics complaint was filed and he was found in violation of that. just, you know, on the basic standard of ethical behavior, she found that he had violated it. I mean, he literally ran one of our staff and code officers off the road and he's an ex- police officer.

He feared for his life and he ended up at town hall and I'm being brief about it and I mean this was for a couple miles. He the Maroba County Sheriff's Office happened to be there and it is on video and this isn't trumped up. You can see it on video and this isn't an isolated event and I I wish it wasn't and I I mean I wish it was if that's all we were talking about conduct.

Um he was lawfully removed from from the office the town hall for yelling at and demanding one of his signs that was legally taken and due to the Yes, it was. And instead of reflecting on these actions, he continues this bad conduct. He in fact he filed a federal lawsuit against me, the mayor, Calbianis, and Sharon because we lawfully followed the out uh outside attorney and found him in violation and issued lawful sanctions reasonable for the rest of his term.

He cost the town tens of thousands of dollars in that lawsuit. and the judge found that his lawsuit was frivolous and found against him. I mean, to me, knowingly filing a lawsuit based on a claim of free violation of free speech and knowing that's really has no merit, I I I couldn't believe that he did it. Um, his social media posts have stated, his numerous letters to the editor, he intentionally obstructs committee appointments. I know he did that.

He mis he misuses procedural motions in my opinion. You guys have stood before council and repeatedly complained about his actions and I think that he has no remorse. He hasn't changed anything. He's been asked to change his conduct but he doesn't and therefore I am a and I cannot in good conscience change my vote to sanction him tonight. I don't believe that he has changed his conduct, his attitude or how his disrespect to the office as demonstrated again by his conduct. Thank you. Thank you.

Uh, vice mayor. Yes. As I said earlier, I believe this conversation is obviously devolving into personal attacks and not staying germanine to what these sanctions were actually on, which did not include his social media, did not include the lawsuit. I'm going to avoid droning on. I'd like to call the question. M. Mr. Mayor, if I could just address this. Gail had already seconded. Sorry. Ju just very briefly and I promise there'll be no discouraging attacks. We don't discuss call the questions.

We have to vote on the call of the question. Then I I I once again assert my claim that that the calling to the question is being weaponized. I I I am the one who filed the complaint and I don't even have a chance to just to weigh in on the sanctions. That that's got a smack against just fundamental unfairness. I I should I should have Your point your point is taken, but we have a we have a motion and a second.

Well, I I implore one of my fellow council members to give me a chance to speak and vote against the calling the question. Town clerk, please. Mayor, was there a second to the call the question? Councilwoman Earl. Council member Calvian. Nay. Council member Skilicorn. I will recuse myself so I abstain. Council member Earl. Yes. Council member McMahon. Nay. Council member Watts. I'd like to hear more. Nay. Vice Mayor Toth. I. And Mayor Fidel. I mayor 33 33. How'd you get in front of me?

Council Councilwoman Kelly Vanakis. Thank you Mr. Mayor for recognizing me. Um also thank you Allan for your rec recusal. That's very honorable and it wasn't necessary. You could have not. And also um thank you Jerry for giving me a chance to speak. Um, what I would just like to address tonight, I I I did wi hope that Ellen would have softened his heart and and made an apology, but he he didn't.

But so I I would just like to say that what this was all about from from the very beginning was the allegation that he had a first amendment right to to do what he did to when he disparaged the council and when he um engaged code officer Lucasy.

um he has asserted from the beginning um and to the outside attorney that found him guilty to the federal court that he he had a first amendment right to to that speech and and he actually last week he said the first amendment doesn't allow for hurt feelings and so he's been very consistent on that and so all I want to do tonight is just address that one point the first amendment while guaranteeing free speech okay doesn't guarantee all speech, incitement, violence, defamation, obscenity, you get the picture.

It doesn't protect that kind of speech. There are also time, place, and manner regulations, which I've talked about with Rachel, and and sign placement. Um, restrictions on free speech are time, place, and manner restrictions. And they include permitting requirements for permitting requirements for parades, demonstrations, restrictions on noise levels, and limitations on why where signs can be posted.

when when it came to addressing this this body and accusing Sandor of giving us money in favor in favor for favorable votes. I consider that I think that was defamation and and and that's that's the basis for that complaint when it went to the code officer and when you called him a signed thief and and it was published and we saw we saw it here tonight. That's defamation. He He's not a public figure. He He's a gentleman that was a former police officer.

And so he could have actually sued for defamation. That's why I think these charges are valid because I don't believe the First Amendment applies here. And so I just wanted to to point that out that maybe you don't realize that, but the First Amendment is isn't the freedom to say anything that you want to any time. there are restrictions and that restrictions that we have to observe and it's it's in the Constitution.

And the last thing I'd like to say is we are all sworn when we are taking our oath to swear to the Constitution of the United States. And so to to me that that's why I filed the complaint. Alan, I I I I wish you would had a softer heart. I'd like to I'd just like to vote to let him go away. He he he he recanted. But since I didn't hear this, I I will vote to keep them up with sadness in my heart.

Councilman Watts, first I'm going to say that I'm going to vote to cease the sanctions for time served. I think that the whole situation was taken out of context. I think that the backstory of other signs being stolen by whomever was not taken into account. I never heard uh Councilman Skilicorn say that he accuse somebody of something with Sandor. He asked a question.

I think like I said previously when we were talking about section 10, the violations were too ambiguous, too vague, and too egregious. A simple apology may have sufficed, but sometimes when you're backed into a corner, you won't back down. Period. And I don't blame him for that. So, did he should he have said I'm sorry? Maybe. But it's still time served is enough and enough is enough. Councilwoman Earl. Okay.

To make it crystal clear, I understood that when we just voted on 10 that Skilicorn's um sanctions are removed, but we're doing this here to just make sure it's um it's um formally we're removing them, but I also would like to state that it's time for forgiveness and grace. We need that on this council. We need that in this town. And Allan has served his time. So, I move to I'd like to make a motion to formally remove Allen Skilicorn sanctions.

I believe that motion's already on the table, councilwoman. Good. Oh, sorry. I just made a big statement for nothing. It was a good one. Vice Mayor. Okay, since I couldn't call the question, I'll guess I guess I'll put my two cents in real quick. I was out of town for the council meeting that we actually voted on this. However, I was online and I'd like to have a chance to repeat in person what I said that night.

The procedure of these sanctions was completely unprecedented, completely outside of the norm. Whether or not you like Allan Skilicorn as a person, this was mishandled and handled in such a way that we have never seen in our town. Never have we voted to not allow someone to be vice mayor, to not allow them to uh have meetings with staff without a babysitter or not allow them to attend events such as the League of Arizona Cities and Towns Conference. This is completely out of hand.

And what happened to do that? It first of all it became a trial on everything he has ever done which is not fair. Second of all and did not again stay germanine to what the actual complaint was regarding. So in my mind I still hold the same opinion I did a year ago. I would not be supportive of something that is so far out of procedure even if it was someone that I don't politically agree with.

The the idea that this is just exonerating something that was egregious is a completely false narrative. This was out of hand. This was outside of regular procedure. I still am astonished that it was even done in the first place. That's my two cents. I'll weigh in as well. When these sanctions were leveled, um we violated our own code of procedure not once but twice by having it in a regular agenda meeting.

I don't know if you guys remember me, we actually adjourned into an executive session and then Allan decided to have the second meeting twice. We had it on a regular agenda when it shouldn't have been on either one of them. Allan about an hour before the meeting decided to let it let it go in public. So that's the first thing I want to say. Secondly, when when those sanctions were leveled, there was no time limit at that point. So he's had them on over a year.

And the council woman mentioned defamation by the by the uh by the question that was asked. Um no names were asked in that question or or mentioned in that question. That question was to everybody. So I find it hard to be defamed by a question that was just thrown out about the Sandor um experience. I I'll call it that.

Um, and I also think the night that I sat here and watched what unfolded, it's really hard for me, and I'm not going to accuse anybody of this, but four people had four prepared statements. That to me seemed a little bit um on the edge of uh some sort of violation. We won't go there. But at any rate, um, a simple apology, like Councilman Watts said, probably would have resolved a lot of that. But I think, um, the time served, I agree.

Um, and again, because there was no time limit attached to these sanctions, I think it's time to move on. Just for the record, um, the outside attorney and the federal court agreed with my contention. That doesn't mean I have to. That is very true. Can we vote now? So, we have a motion. Do we have a second? Yes, we do. Okay. Town clerk, please. Council member Watts. The motion is to lift the sanctions for time served. All right. I Council member Calivian Nakis. Nay. Council member McMahon. Nay.

Big nay. Council member Earl. Big yay. Yes. Sorry. Council member Skiilicorn recused himself. Vice Mayor Toth. I and Mayor Fredell I mayor 42 I'm sorry yeah 42 and we did remove u item E from the agenda so we'll move on to council dis direction to the town manager Vice Mayor, I wanted to follow up on Mr. Blecker's statement to the council during call to the public if we could explore how to add something to our legislative agenda or communicate with our legislators. I'm I'm sure Mr.

Colladin would be happy to talk to us since he was here today uh regarding the hazardous waste coming from California. I think that affects every municipality and it would be good to show leadership here. On that note, um could we could we send a letter to our legisl is is everybody in agreement with that? No, I don't know. I need time to look at it. It doesn't have to be unanimous. Yeah, we could say the majority. Uh, everybody else in line with that? Yes. Okay.

We'll do that as as a majority, Rachel, if we can. And then I have one thing I'd like this council to consider. Um, at some point I'd like to bring back an agenda item. Uh, you know, we talked about the raises for our town staff. Our town staff has got a lot of work ahead of them, especially now with the Dark Sky Discovery Center uh grant that we're looking at funding. Um, I'd like a future agenda item.

If we can do this, um, before the budget is fully approved, I'd like this town council to consider at least a quarter, maybe a half a percent more on that on that uh cost of living adjustment. We've got a lot of work ahead of us and we need this staff. Um, so I I would really like to have have us consider that. A second. No third. Anybody have anything else? Future agenda items? Any anything other than what I just brought up? Anybody? One last thing.

Councilman, you forgot to remind me about 4.2 whatever that was with Sha and and I didn't get my two cents in on that one. things went too fast. It was u but if we can look at that again, I think there's a few other points that we ought to at some future date look at for amendment. Uh it was 4.2 B.2 and it was shall versus May. That's right. 4.2.1. I got that written down here too. Mr. Changing wording from May to shell to shell. to get it on the agenda. To get an item on the agenda. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Would you be amenable to that? Um, are you are you are you requesting a future agenda item? Yeah, I would like to request a future agenda item that that we do look at the code rewrite with without the emotion and and we can look at my minor amendments and and council member Watt's amendment to shall and and just under more calmer circumstances just we can get that right. Are are you not calm? I'm very calm. Okay, I'll second it. Thank you. We have Do we have a Do we have a third?

I think Rick I would be a third for the U 4.2 B2 the the sha the shall I would be a third on the shall just going to come back then? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Anything else? Can I get a motion to adjurnn? We're adjourned. Thank you.