Fountain Hills Council Embraces "Band-Aid" Full-Depth Palamino Reconstruction, Rejects Sidewalk Push After Resident Uprising

I'd like to call the meeting to order for the Cottonwood District. Roll call, please. Tonclair. Present. Here. present. Thank you. Uh we're we're considering possible action on approving resolution CMD 2025-03. And I see Paul, you're ready to go. Chairman board, this is the third meeting, the final meeting for fiscal year 2026 for the Cottonwoods Maintenance District, considering the fiscal year 2026 tax levy of $20010 on each of the 58 parcels within the district.

Uh the tax levy will support the fiscal year 2026 final budget that was approved at the last meeting. And with that, I can answer any questions. Seeing no questions, are there any comment cards? Tom Cler, thank you. Any further council discussion? Uh, councilwoman. Yes, Mr. Mayor. I'd like to make a move to approve resolution CMD 20225-03. Second. Roll call, please. Yes. I [Music] I [Music] thank you. And that being all of our business for this um can I get a motion for uh adjournment? So moved.

Second. All in fa All in favor? I I Thank you. Okay. And we'll move on to our regular meeting now. Um I'd like to call that meeting to order. And uh if everybody would please rise for the pledge of allegiance. liberty and justice for all. And if you would remain standing for a moment of silence if you choose. Uh tonight we're going to try and have a moment of silence to remember the politicians that were gunned down in Minnesota. So a moment of silence, please. Thank you.

And now we'll start with our reports by council members and town manager. Uh Rachel Goodwin, town manager. Thank you, mayor. I just have a uh two quick updates. Um a number of us um from the staff as well as a number of our electeds um joined us for our uh length of service lunchon. Um and I wanted to thank all of our staff um those that were recognized and those that were able to join us.

um what we do we can't get done without our staff and having that chance to kind of recognize them is was very important. Um secondly, we also had um a retirement. I wanted to recognize Jeff Larson. Jeff has been with us on our streets and public works team for 20 yes 20 plus years. Um and Jeff was a a big part of our team and we um bid him farewell earlier this month. So I just wanted to wish him our best with that. Mayor, that's my update.

Councilwoman Earl Yes, I want to say also that I attended that employee length of service lunch and it was really nice to see um the staff how you know having a fun time and how they interact when they're not working. They seem to all like each other and like you too. Yeah. And also um spent mostly my time the last couple weeks um or week or so interviewing attorneys. Thanks, Councilwoman. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, greeting everybody. Um, for you at home, we have a really packed house tonight.

It's always good to see that. Um, live streaming YouTube here, president of the chambers. It's it's good to have all you here with us tonight. The underlying principle of an informed citizenry remains the cornerstone of democratic theory. Often attributed to Thomas Jefferson. and he said, "A well-informed citizenry is the best defense against tyranny." Um, of course, I also attended the June 5th employee length of service lunchon.

Um, I do want to point out that David Trimble made an admirable MC. Good job, Dave. And and our very own uh town manager celebrated 10 years of service to Fountain Hills. So, thank thank you for that. 10 years. Amazing, huh? Um, yeah. Yeah, the council and staff have spent countless hours working on an RFP that council member Earl just mentioned. An RFP is a request for proposals from law firms. In this case, to replace Pierce Coleman.

It was a very demanding couple weeks for our staff, for the all the council members and the mayor. Um, we put in a lot of hours, a lot of time, and a lot of thought went into this process. And so I just want to have a heartfelt thank you to our staff who got this done in in the deadlines that we set which we thought were impossible at the time. So job well done. Um lastly, I would like to send my sincere condolences to the family and friends of fallen Apache Junction officer Gabriel Fazio.

Uh those condolences extend to the Apache Junction Police Department and the citizens of that close-knit community. He left behind a wife and two daughters. The press said he was responding to a routine traffic stop. I've always had a problem with the term routine traffic stop or routine domestic violence call. There is nothing routine in the career of a law enforcement officer. Each counter can go sideways very quickly. Officer Fazio immigrated here from Mexico.

He worked hard to obtain a citizenship and his lifelong dream was a career in law enforcement of which he served admirably. He said that he wanted to make his family proud and I'm sure he did. So, rest in peace, Officer Fasio. Your service will never be forgotten. And that's my report. Thank you, Councilman Watts. Fairly quiet week. U one of the highlights was the recognition ceremony and a shout out to staff for selecting Bachelor Pad. Uh, it's hard to beat their food. So, it was a good week.

Free food always makes for a good day. Thanks, Councilman Skilicorn. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, one of the best parts of being on council is receiving the emails from residents. So, thank you so much. Uh, there's obviously a few people that are here about Palmino. Thank you for coming. Thank you for voicing your opinion. And, uh, we look forward to hearing what you have to say. And I think you might have look forward to what we have to say about that, too.

Uh, also want to point out over the weekend, uh, Saturday was Flag Day, uh, June 14th. Uh, it was also the birthday of a prominent person in town, uh, Sheriff Joe Apio. It was 90, it was 93 years old, uh, on Saturday. It's his birthday, and he shares that birthday a birthday with President Trump. Thank you very much, Councilwoman. Thank you. Good evening, everybody.

Um, I attended the Valley Metro Audit and Finance Committee meeting and also the Valley Metro Board meeting and also um I attended the grand opening of Baseline and Central uh Avenue uh opening of the new light rail and station. Um the local artists who decorated that station and others, it's just amazing. There were literally thousands of people there, a lot of community members.

This has been in the works a long time and those families and community members are really excited and looking forward to having such quality transportation and even the surrounding communities are. So it is really going to be a benefit for those people to have accessible reasonably priced transportation. Thank you vice mayor. Yes, I had the pleasure of being a part of a roundt for women vice mayors in the valley.

Um, it was hosted by Christine Ellis of Chandler and we just had a really wonderful time hearing the different issues that these cities and towns are facing in our county. And on top of that, um, I'm a little bit dressed for the occasion. On Saturday, we also celebrated the 250th anniversary of the United States Army. Um, so thank you very much to the veterans that live in this town and for your service because our country was built by the works of thousands and thousands of you over 250 years.

Thank you. And like has been mentioned, um, the town staff did a lot of work on the RFP for the uh, attorney interviews. So I want to recognize them because it was a lot of work and they got it done in a timely fashion and we stayed to our timelines interviews and that that really uh helped the process move along.

Um I too attended the uh employee length of service recognition and again congratulations to our town manager and you know it's a it's a true testament when you can promote from within your organization and Rachel is a good example of that because she started out in a different area and ended up being the the town manager of the town. So um we really appreciate your service and 10 years to the town.

Um, Saturday was the uh flag day ceremony and I was fortunate enough to be uh included in the Elks Lodge. They do a tremendous flag ceremony there. So, I was honored to be able to say a few words at that ceremony with them. Um, are the wet Wednesdays still uh rolling along until the end of this month? Right. The Wednesdays. Uh, wet and wacky. Oh, wacky wet Wednesdays. You know what? I will let um Director Snipes comment on that when he joins us for um his update about community services. Yeah.

Okay. Great. So anyway um uh and also uh today we had the uh the final one for the summer and it was a coffee with the mayor. It was very successful. We had about just under 60 people that attended that. Um lots of questions uh lots of good food and we had a special visit by the mounted patrol from the MCSO um horse patrol. So, that was really cool to have them pull up uh literally um to the uh event as well.

So, and then uh just wanted to give a shout out because the chamber's got the state of the chamber coming up this Thursday morning up at uh Adaro. So, if you haven't signed up for that, um I don't know if there's any openings or not, but uh that'll be happening this Thursday morning. So, thank you. And with that, uh we'll move on. Now, um we're fortunate enough to be able to to recognize businesses in this town. So, tonight we've got a special recognition for a business uh behavior alley.

Um we're proud to recognize them because it's a local ABA therapy practice dedicated to supporting children with autism. Behavior Alley is was founded by Ally Peralt, a board-certified behavior analyst whose passion for this work is deeply personal, motivated by her own son's diagnosis and a desire to help other families navigate similar journeys.

After earning and advanced credentials and receiving training at a national level, Ally returned to Arizona with a mission to provide compassionate, highquality individual care for children with autism. The practice began modestly, running a single classroom at the bizub, formerly up at our Four Peaks um elementary school. Within within just six months, uh they outgrew that space.

Ally then relocated to the Avenue of the Fountains and later expanded again to a third and current location, a 4,000 square foot facility on Palisades Boulevard next to Here we Grow. What started as a twochild operation in 840 square feet has now grown to serve 22 children with 50 families served since the practic's founding in 2022. From a team of just two Ally and one registered behavioral technician, the organization has grown to employ 35 staff members.

That's really huge in a small town and it's really a testament to the success and the dedication and the spirit that you bring to the community. Included in there is four certified uh behavior analysts, 30 behavioral technicians, registered behavioral technicians, and one administrative personnel. This is a remarkable story of local business growth, retention, and expansion, and an inspiring example of turning a personal passion into a lasting community impact.

And it's a great impact on our community. So, please join me in celebrating uh Behavior Alley for their meaningful contributions to our community. Come on up and I'll present this to you and then we'll have you say a few things about your business. [Applause] Thank you so much, Mayor Fidel, for the recognition. Um, my name is Alli Peralt. I'm a board certified behavior analyst. Um, my my family moved here in 2011. Um, we couldn't imagine living in a more ideal place.

Um, and when we found that we needed early intervention services, we were told by other professionals to leave because we needed to find a place where we could get more services. Um, and that's where in 2022 I launched my practice. Um, and that was basically to fulfill that need of people that were actually here that needed services as my call to action.

So um I um started my practice um we our mission of our practice is to empower children with autism to engage, learn and thrive in pursuit of their reaching their fullest potential. Um we deliver one-on-one direct therapy in clinic and in the community as well as in school environments. Um our direct therapy um is medically um is medically necessary is also evidence-based and um we do very individualized treatment for the children.

So um we are a lot of what we focus on is things like um language um acquisition. We're teaching social and functional communication as well as cognitive flexibility. Um so we have grown um into becoming an ASU master's practicum site. So we have um a significant amount of students working with us towards their residency and their getting their experience hours. Um it's life-changing work that I'm so proud to do every single day and it's super meaningful that I can do it here in Fountain Hills.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being a part of our community. Okay. And so now we'll move on to uh we have a proclamation a designation of July as park and recreation month and vice mayor will will be reading the proclamation. Whereas park and recreation are an integral part of communities throughout this country including the town of Fountain Hills.

And whereas parks and recreation promote health and wellness, improving the physical and mental health of people who live near parks. And whereas parks and recreation promote time spent in nature, which positively impacts mental health by increasing cognitive performance and well-being, and alleviating illnesses such as depression, attention deficit disorders, and Alzheimer's.

And whereas parks and recreation encourage physical activities by providing space for popular sports, hiking trails, and many other activities designed to promote active lifestyles. And whereas parks and recreation is a leading provider of healthy meals, nutrition services, and education. And whereas park and recreation programming and education activities such as out of schooltime programming, youth sports, and environmental education are critical to childhood development.

And whereas parks and recreation increase a community's economic prosperity through increased property values, expansion of the local tax base, increased tourism, the attraction and retention of businesses, and crime reduction. And whereas parks and recreation are fundamental to the environmental well-being of our community. And whereas parks and recreation are essential and adaptable infrastructure that make our communities resilient in the face of natural disasters and climate.

And whereas our parks and natural recreation areas ensure the ecological beauty of our community and provide a place for children and adults to connect with nature and recreate recreate outdoors. And whereas the US House of Representatives has designated July as parks and recreation month. Last one. And whereas the town of Fountain Hills recognizes the benefits derived from parks and recreation resources.

Now therefore, Jerry Fredell, mayor of town of the town of Fountain Hills, Arizona, does hereby proclaim that July is recognized as Park and Recreation Month. Congratulations Kevin. Kevin. Kevin, are you going to come up and accept this? Okay. And now we'll move on to presentations. Um, first one, uh, Rachel.

Well, Mayor, since we just recognized July as Parks and Recreation Month, I'd like to call Kevin back up, uh, Director Snipes back up to give us an update um, regarding our community services department, which obviously encompasses parks and recreation, but also includes our volunteers, our community center, our public arts, um, our trail system, and lots of other things. So, with that, I'm going to turn it over to you.

Sure enough, mayor and council, uh it's a pleasure and an honor to be here tonight and get to talk about some of my favorite people and they just so happen to be employees that I get the privilege of getting to work with on a daily basis. Um I think Hannah probably said it all of what we do and that's we do a little bit of everything. We're uh we like to uh think that we're kind of the group that touches that helps everyone from birth to death and everywhere in between.

So um it's a pretty unique uh spot for us to be in. We'll start off with a little video just to give you some of the highlights of uh of what our team does. [Music] My name is Ryan Preston. I'm the recreation manager here in Fountain Hills. Had some fantastic events this past year. We've had record crowds for four of our major our signature events. Record-breaking crowds for Turkey Trot, for our Irish Fountain Fest, um for Fourth at the Fountain, as well as music fest.

Absolutely amazing turnout this year. It's a great look for the town right there. People are recognizing Fountain Hills as one of the top event destinations in the valley. We use a lot of local vendors who are getting a lot of great business out of these events. Restaurants are full and the community is having a great time. Community services has done a lot for the town over the last year. We try and hit things for all age groups and abilities.

With the amount of events we have every year, small amount of staff we have. I think the thing I'm most proud of is is the amount the community comes together. This year we had a record number of volunteers come out across our events as a whole. One of the great things about being in community services is there's always something going on. Doesn't matter if it's the dead of summer or the middle of winter. We try and make sure that there's something for everybody.

There's been a huge pickup in the usage of the community center. Especially since the remodel, it's made a big difference in in how the community center functions and people are finding it to be their place away from home to go out and hang out with with people. Our bingo group is is very serious. They have some really big crowds. It's every Tuesday and it's a long-term event that that's ran really well.

We're here now at the new splash pad over at Fountain Park and this is one of our feature attractions. Of course, during the summer, we just recently put in the new shade structure with 17 new picnic tables that allows large groups to be here as well as small. We added a restroom over at Fort Peaks Park. That was a huge asset for the town, especially with all the new pickle ball courts that went in over there. We've got an absolutely amazing pickle ball program.

We have leagues running every single night of the week. Um they're full every single time. So, actually this year we just got three brand new courts which has enabled us to put on a lot of programming for pickle ball. The staff for the community services are are some of the best around. The amount of time our staff puts into these, the amount of effort it takes to get these going, you know, we're planning Irish Fest starting in July, right? So that that's just around the corner.

Revenue tripled for MusicFest this year. We've got increased 20% revenue at Irishfest this year. Same increase for Turkey Trot. I mean, it's been a a huge jump over the past couple years. What we're seeing as far as both attendance and revenue for the town. The word's gotten out that Fountain Hills is the place to come for these events. The goal is another record year. We want to beat attendance records. We want to have more at each event.

We want to have more reasons for people to come and enjoy this great town and all the events and everything we have to offer. [Applause] All right. So, now we've seen a little bit of the action that occurs. So, um, wanted to kind of give some moments of pause to several of the things that have been going on. Um, first of all, this is a look at our team. Um, we are a sizable team in town. Until fire got here, we were the largest. Thanks, Dave. Um, uh, this is our community services team.

Um and the events that we run both internal, external, and partnership events. Um the Fourth of July celebration last year, we had 23,000 in attendance. Um that's the most that I know of that we've had uh in my tenure being here. And um definitely we're seeing a drastic change in the amount of people that are showing up to our events.

um our music fest this year it was shortened by an entire set and yet all of our vendors said that they made double the revenue that they made at our last music fest. So that's a real tribute to the people that showed up and were willing to come out even with the threat of rain. As you can see by the rainbow, we certainly had that threat. Um here's our exciting news for the night.

We were awarded um Arizona Parks and Recreation Association awarded us the best special event for 2025 for uh cities and towns under uh 25,000. So that was really exciting. Uh we were over 10,000 people this year. We had expanded our footprint up to Sorro. That was nerve-wracking at the time and we ended up with 3,000 more people at the event than what we had ever had in the past filling in the area and making it a great space for this event.

Um the hard work and dedication of all the staff and the volunteers as well as staff members that aren't in our department that are always supporting us and coming out. We just really couldn't do the events that we do without having the staff that we have here. Um, a lot of places don't get their um, accountants or their public works people to come to an event and help uh, handle the money. We get it every single time we ask. So, uh, we appreciate that so much.

Our turkey trot this year hit the cap of 2,800 for the first time ever. Um, and as you can see going down the street, we had a packed house. It's not a short event when you have it when the first place runner is coming across the finish line almost the same time that the last person's leaving the shoot. So, uh it makes for an interesting view. Um our programs have and um events for our recreation have really started to to take off.

We're find we're we're finding that we're hitting the people that we've been trying to hit um with our skate classic. This is our second one. We had 28 participants, over 200 people there watching and it was a spectacular event for everybody that was there. Um, pickle ball with uh the support of council, we were able to bring on some new staff and as you can see our revenue was $42,000 just for pickle ball alone.

Now understand that our um projected revenue was just over 42,000 for all of recreation. So this one thing that we added and we couldn't have done it without the staffing that you guys approved. So I just wanted to thank you for being a partner with us and and making something fantastic. Um our cornhole is another really popular event. Um we had our second annual tournament.

Uh Ryan and I did participate in this one this year and it was neat because not very many people knew that we were with the town and so we got to hear how great our staff really are and there was so many compliments about how well it's run and we were invited and in fact pressured to join the tour their league um I think so they could beat us. Um, but it was a lot of fun to be there, uh, kind of without people knowing.

Um, our teens are always something that we've tried to find ways to catch and and give them things to do. Um, what we found is that we're finally finding our our sweet spot in and getting them involved. We actually maxed out four of our seven trips and had waiting lists. Um, so that was really good to see as well. our mayor's youth conference as our council as always um are a great group that do a lot of things both in the town and uh supporting our uh events as well.

Uh return to recess is a program that we started a few years ago. It actually won a a parks and wreck um award as well and we added adding uh adults because everyone loves recess. So, uh, we now have it for the adults and the youth. And then, um, some of our other special, uh, local events are our summer kickoff, back to school bash, and spooky blast. And each of which are doing better year-over-year every year.

Um, our senior services programs, as you can see, there's a lot of programs for our seniors. Um, one thing that we're really proud of this year is our membership went up 4,500 from last year alone. So, that's a testament to the people that are there.

Um, Kathleen's really done a great job of offering some fantastic programs and keeping an eye on who's coming in and making sure that they're members and if they're not, offering a great way that they could become members and most of them have done that. So, um, that's been a huge help there as well. Um she set up several different um presentations. One of our largest ones was the Holocaust survivor presentation. Over 200 people in attendance um for a freedom members um account.

Another new program that we're doing is Sip and Socialize. We do mocktails in the lobby. And so um we've been averaging over 80 participants for that. It's a great way for our seniors to be able to meet each other. um come in not knowing people and leave with new friends. I think it's a fantastic event and it's a lot of fun that they've been asking for more and more of. Um our community center um is our all things to all people as well.

Um when you don't have a rec center, the community center gets all the weight put on it. We had the Billy Graham look up event. um they brought in over 900 people for three different events and that's just at the community center and as you know we also had them out in Fountain Park with a massive event out there as well.

Um the great thing about the events that we've been running in the community center is these are all out of town um money makers that we're bringing people into town to to help enjoy uh to enjoy Fountain Hills as well as uh hopefully spend some money and and go to our restaurants and hang out before and after the events. Another new event that we have this year is Pokemon. We already have a a second one um scheduled for the community center.

I was a little surprised it was over 3,000 people in attendance. Um, but as you can see, it's a really good time. Uh, the other thing, since the fire department's our largest department, we're doing a lot of fire department training in the community center. Um, and it works out great for them as well. through our uh community center. For those that don't know, we offer a free loaner program for uh equipment.

We handed out over uh 213 We handed out 213 pieces of equipment and it could be anything from wheelchairs to um canes to crutches to anything you need. Check in. You never know what we'll have, but we're more than staff's more than happy to to help you out and get you what you need. done a lot of uh a lot of improvements in the community center as well.

Um like to thank Mike Cheron for his work on um the door badges off to the left there you can see that show what events are going on in each one of the rooms and they change from red if there's something going on in the room, yellow 15 minutes before the event starts, and they're green if the rooms are open, so it's easy to look at and see. Um, we just put in the new, um, fans in the lobby. Um, and they should be ready to, um, start operating next week.

Um, the other thing that we've had a lot of is line dancers and table tennis players. And apparently the Hopey Puma room gets hot, so we added the corner fans to help cool down our line dancers and table tennis players. That's greatly appreciated. Um the divider walls are going up right now that were approved uh a couple months ago. Uh they got the upper level uh are hanging there in the picture on the right. Uh the old ones are laying outside.

Um it's quite the operation seeing something that tall being dropped down uh and and removed. Those should be done in the next week or so. coming soon. In fact, later tonight, we'll be talking more about some lighting fixtures. Um, we finally got some renderings in. I was hoping to have these for tonight, and I just got them in a couple hours ago. Um, so, um, we are looking, you know, at getting these put in as quickly as we can. Um, and we'll talk more later tonight about those. our volunteers.

The things there's nothing that goes on in our department that that would go on without our volunteers. They're they're fantastic. Um our crisis response team, this is one that happens behind the scenes. Hopefully you you don't need them ever, but if you do, they are always there. They are a 247 on call. Um they had over 50 calls last year. each call's on average three hours or more per call.

Um the big thing about this is this is this could be, you know, we talked a little bit earlier in the year about um someone that was contemplating suicide in one of our parks. These are the people that come out and help and take over from once something is discovered. It could be a house has burnt down, someone needs help from that. Or it could be that um you know there's a domestic violence situation where someone needs help, need a place to stay, needs some food.

Um these are the the people that you call on when you feel like things couldn't be any worse and they come and make help make it better. So um huge shout out to them. These are some fantastic volunteers. um our home delivered meals. Um 5,966 meals for our for people that are homebound and needed needing in need of some uh nutrition. Um this is a great program and I've had the privilege of doing this several times and it's just a lot of fun to go and see the people that need it the most.

Lots of uh food packing and uh helping feed the hungry. Um, this happens a lot throughout the year and um, the group that goes and does it is is just so much fun to hang out with and uh, we all have a really good time. Make a difference day. Kim sets this all up and this is a massive undertaking and she has a great team of volunteers that help set it up.

This year we did over 38 residential projects, uh, three town projects, and the look on the faces of the volunteers that participate, and I know that many of you have, is second to none. It It's just fun to be able to go in and help people out that can't help. Um, our holiday decorations, um, we have so many different groups in town that participate.

It's just a really fun way to to spend the holiday season and be able to go through and and see all the different uh trees, wreaths, and quilts that go into the community center. Our volunteering event expo, over 400 guests attended it. Um we had 67 groups within town that were there. And I just think that's that says a lot about this town when you have 67 volunteer groups and 400 people that are coming looking for things to volunteer for. That says a lot.

Um, then we have our commissions and partners. Um, Fountain Park. This year we added uh the large shade structure up by the splash pad, the new swings that have just been installed down by the lake edge. If you want the best seat in the house to view the fountain, there's no doubt that these two swings are the best. Um then they we also rellandscaped over at the the amphitheater and uh made some big improvements over there as well.

For Peaks Park, as the video was talking about, the new restroom that's right by the playground and near the new pickle ball courts um have gone a long way to encouraging people to stay longer at the park. uh the Avenue Linear Park. Uh as you can see there at the bottom, the before and after pictures of the old event receptacle with the cord and the spider box and the fancy cone that says Fountain Hills Parks or the new version that uh you're seeing on the east half of the avenue right now.

Uh the west half have been ordered and will be going in here in the next month or two as soon as they get here. The upper right corner is the root barrier that we put in to uh help protect the pavers from being lifted from the uh roots of the sissue trees. Um the group that did that did a fantastic job. When you go out now, you can hardly tell if they were there. And uh it it it'll make a big difference in the amount of maintenance we have to do to that PA pathway.

And then finally, our uh Adero Canyon trail head. We added two security cameras up there or two sets of three actually. And uh so we have a really good view now of the entire parking lot and up the trail entrance as well as in the Ramada area. We had uh uh an issue of somebody burning something up there this year and decided it was time to to have that be our next camera spot. And so now we do and we'll be able to uh help protect that. And that's all I got for this evening for this one.

If there's any questions I'd be happy to answer them. town manager Kevin, I was hoping you could give a quick update uh about Fountain Park and the irrigation system over there. Oh, certainly. Thanks for the reminder. Sure. So, uh if you've been down to the fountain lately, you'll notice that it's slightly browner than normal. Um and the reason being is we're putting in an entirely new irrigation pump station.

They had a couple of hiccups and so we've been without water for two weeks and two weeks and 115 degree weather don't go well together and so uh we're hopeful to be back up tomorrow uh so that we can start watering. Um and then you'll be seeing that there'll be puddles everywhere as we're overwatering to try and help everything catch up. So uh please bear with us. Uh the new system we're hoping it will shorten our irrigation window slightly.

Um which is always an issue that we have there of how long we have to run to uh water all 32 acres of the turf. So um bear with us. We'll it's a good time to do it because the ry grass is dying off anyway and we can stall out the bermuda a little bit to get it to grow. So thanks. Absolutely. Um, mayor, I also took the chance to um, while Kevin was speaking, I um, hopped on and I asked Misty um, when our next Wacky Wet Wednesday was because I couldn't remember.

Um, and she's let me know that it is uh, scheduled for July 9th um, over at Four Peaks Park. She says to make sure to wear your swimsuit and be ready to have a good time. And for and for those that don't know who Misty is, um, would you like to uh, share that? Sure.

Um Mike Pilton's not here so I you know he this has really been his project and his baby but he's brought um Misty which is our AI powered chatbot um to our website so that um it helps navigation and helps um find things quicker and more accurately. So um it is still very new. It's only been launched maybe four weeks. Um, so it is intuitive and it's still learning and you know it's we're refining it but um it is a very helpful tool and the name is really kind of connected to the fountain Misty.

Yes, councilwoman. Yeah, thank you Mr. Mayor. Um Kevin, I see you're gone so um it's it's okay. I can do it without you but um thanks for the presentation. Um very comprehensive, very exciting. Um thanks to all the volunteers and I just want to mention that um he mentioned the crisis response team. We are currently seeking crisis responders. Um there's a need in that and for that.

So if anybody's here or out there um that wants to volunteer for that program again talk to Kevin go to our website but that that's an area that we need we need volunteers um now. So, I just want to make people aware that they can help the town and do something uh great. Okay. And if there's no more comments, then we'll move on to our next presentation. Uh Rachel. Great. I believe um Amanda's going to be joining us tonight to introduce um our public services nonprofit grant award.

Good evening, Mayor Council. Usually I make this short and sweet. Um, but I'm going to add some extra things to my presentation. Um, so one, this is our annual Republic Services nonprofit grant award program. So each year, um, Republic Services provides to the town $10,000 and then we issue a press release and give about a month for our nonprofits to apply. This cycle we received nine applicants and then we'll be awarding it to two. So breaking that down to 5,000 each.

In full transparency, this fiscal year we will receive 20,000. So we did it in the fall and that was because there was a bit of a transition with our management team and point of contact with Republic Services and then Melissa and our Republic Service team. if you guys want to start working your way um up here for the presentation. Melissa said, "Let's try to get us back on track." She wanted to do this earlier this year and as you guys know, I was a onewoman show.

So, I asked us to postpone and so we started this back in April and then here we are. And so, um I will turn it over to whoever's going to to speak. Which way you coming? I'll come in a second. Hello, mayor and council. Um, I just want to say that Republic Services is committed to being a good neighbor in the communities that we serve and we're proud of our longtime partnership uh with the town of Fountain Hills.

Uh we're excited uh for the recipients of the annual grant uh which supports local nonprofit businesses. That's it. Thank you. All right. So, um, our first recipient is the Fountain Hills Coalition. And so, if you'll make your way up here with the big old check. We've got Tammy Bell and team and some of our youth that I showed them that check. And look at look at the excitement and the smiles. Scrunch in just a little bit more. Yeah.

And so, we're going to ask the mayor and council, all of you, to please stand up. um ask our group behind us to be patient. We're going to take pictures. Start with the coalition first. If there are representatives of the Boys and Girls Club, if you can make your way up here because we have a full house and I've lost sight of you if you're here. And then we'll give a microphone to Miss Tammy Bell to speak. Sorry, I'm multitasking. All right. Smile. All right. Thank you. And then Tammy.

I thought it was on. Got it, Tammy? No. Okay. Yep. Go ahead. Thank you. Um, I just want to say really quickly and then I'm going to pass the mic down because we have some really important um, people here that want to say thank you. And so I thank you Republic Services and town for your consistent support. I want to say that when we talk about the coalition team, we are not just talking about our staff and our board. We are talking about our community. We have a very unique coalition in our town.

We have um so many people participating in making um our mission very impactful for our youth and our families more so than many people in the nation state. We are constantly being told that we have something very special and unique. So, I want to thank those um people who are participating.

Um MCSO, the fire department, the crisis team, the boys and girls club, the town the town leadership, the town community center, um the chamber of commerce, our businesses, they all our schools, our boys and girls club, republic services, the community foundation have all participated in the mission of protecting our youth for Fountain Hills.

This is very special and I just didn't want to go without saying how wonderful it is to be collaborating together in creating a culture in our town that protects our families. It's very we're really grateful for that. So, thank you. [Applause] My name is Elizabeth Waters and I'm the program manager for the Fountain Hills Protect Our Youth Coalition and we would like to thank Republic Services and the town of Fountain Hills for this generous a grant.

We are going to be using these funds for our above that club and we started the club in January of 2025 and it was started actually at the request of these kids that you see before you. Uh they came to us and said that they were really interested in forming a club so that they could um make sure that the youth and other middle schoolers were aware of the dangers of drug and alcohol use as well as vaping.

And I just would like to ask each of them why they believe that being an above that club member is important and beneficial to the town of Fountain Hills. Why is it beneficial being a club member at the town of Hills? Cuz uh based on my past, I've seen my parents use drugs and my dad has done OD and I just thought maybe I could war other people about drugs and how it can harm you. I want to join above that club because I want to look after my older sister.

I joined it because I think it can be very beneficial to the town of Fountain Hills. I can you hear me? I I joined the club to protect my friends. [Applause] And then just quickly in fun in front of the cameras, here's the real check. We timed it nicely. Kids, the bank won't cash that. All right. Thank you. So, now let's bring up the Boys and Girls Club again. We'll take a quick photo op. We're going to They're going to leave and then we've got the council members.

You're still We're still standing. And then our next recipient is the Boys and Girls Club. Good and then Lord will give you an opportunity to speak and again in front of the camera. Real check. you. All right. So, my name is Lauren Stratton. I'm the branch director at the Boys and Girls Club here in town. And um a lot of people don't know that um we never ever turn away a family because they can't afford to come to Boys and Girls Club.

So, this money actually helps us offset our financial assistance program. Um about 42% of the kids that come regularly after school are on financial assistance with us. So this really helps kind of bridge that gap for us. So thank you very much. [Applause] Thanks, Mr. Mayor. That Thank you, Republic for providing that community service. We appreciate it. And we'll move on now to the call to the public. Are there any speaker cards? Tell clear. Mayor, we have six cards.

We'll start with Liz Gildersleeve followed by Shelby Bleecker. Good evening everybody. Liz Gildersleeve, Fountain Hills resident. I'd like to discuss the town's press release praising the addition of Sprouts to our town. First, I'm thrilled we're getting a Sprouts. My family eats organic almost exclusively, and I'm happy to have more choice with Sprouts. However, I am concerned about something that our own town economic director said in the press release.

Miss Jacobs, the town's economic director, said her most asked request from residents since she's been her in her position the last three years has been, and I quote, "When are we getting a specialty grosser or an organic grosser?" This implies that we don't have one. I hope the director's reply to all of these residents is that we are fortunate to already have had an organic grosser for the last several years.

Our local organic groceryer is Goodliving Greens and the owners who are local residents are currently in the process of moving to an expanded location on the avenue and investing in Fountain Hills. Sandor's 300 unit highdensity tenement of mostly onebedrooms east of Target is not the reason for the Sprouts in my opinion. Even if every person in that proposed tenement shopped at Sprouts, which they won't, it wouldn't be enough to support a Sprouts or any business.

I've shopped at the Scottsdale Sprouts and it's always a mad house. I believe that the new Fountain Hills sprouts will see a lot of Scottsdale crossover. All good for Fountain Hills. I believe that it's Goldhawk at the preserve, a new housing development planned for right around the corner from us and which was approved by Maricopa County and will consist of 696 lowdensity single family homes that will help Sprouts.

These are the families who will shop at Sprouts and visit our local restaurants and businesses and may even have kids for our public and private schools. It's unfortunate that some of you didn't have the vision to hold out for a development like that for the area east of Target as opposed to approving a highdensity cookie cutter tenement which which will have a mostly transient population with no real stake in Fountain Hills. Thank you. Good evening, Mr. Mayor, council members, staff.

Shelby Blacker, a little over one year. I've lived here now. Um, I've brought this up before, but Amanda Jacobs in her marketing presentation at the last town council meeting um, brought it up, so I thought I'd bring this back up and see if I can't get some more gravity to the situation. in regards to the apartment occupancy rates in town. She shared that um we're at 91% um occupancy which leaves 9% vacancy.

Um I looked at apartments.com today and for apartments, condos, and town homes, there are 86 units available right now. So, I'm not sure how that relates to the 9% vacancy rate, but the apartment pipeline she reported was 652 new units coming online. So, this is what I've brought up before was the MAG vacancy rate and I've given you each one of a copy of this report from MAG. Now, granted, this is based on the census which was last done in 2020.

The data may be outdated somewhat, but it is reporting that the housing vacancy rate in Fountain Hills is 17.3%. There's over 2,400 housing units, which according when I had a conversation with Amanda Jacobs, she said that these are actually single family homes, which they're why they're not included in her apartment vacancy rate.

So, as we market the town and let people know what's available in town, shouldn't the vacancy rate in single family homes be part of our package, when families come to town, don't we want families with two kids and a couple dogs living in homes and letting them know that we have homes here available to rent? So, I think that might be an issue that I' you'd want to take up.

Um, also since I have a little bit more time, um, the last time I spoke uh was about the, um, hazardous waste coming from California into Utah and Nevada. Um, since that time, I've connected with one of the council members in Los Angeles who um reviewed the information or her staff reviewed the information, handed that over to their legislative analyst and their um toxic waste person because this council person just happens to be a toxic toxic waste attorney as well.

So, they're looking into it and we'll stay tuned and we'll see what kind of um stuff we can do. They did receive a copy of the mayor's letter, so that did add a little bit more weight to why they want to take this up and look at it. So, thank you for that. And let's keep Arizona beautiful. Debbie Elder, followed by Wendy Dashel. Good evening everyone, Mr. Mayor, council members, staff. My name is Debbie Alder.

I am the owner of Culinary Curator, a Fountain Hills-based catering and personal chef business located in downtown Fountain Hills on Park View Avenue. I'm a resident of Fountain Hills as well. I'm appe appearing tonight to talk to you a little bit about the new rules and fees that are scheduled for imp uh implementation July 1 at the community center.

Back in the latter part of 2024, you're probably all aware that there was a request for quotes process that was implemented by our town staff to come up with some preferred status caterers to operate at the Fountain Hills Community Center. And from what from what I understand, a list of three caterers were selected based on their criteria. and now um they are the ones that are preferred to provide food for anything happening at the community center. That's all fine.

However, anybody that's not on that list is now per these new rules required to um h have a fee kick in for $100 per time you're there. So, for example, if I were working with a group that had a monthly lunch and they needed me 12 times that year, they would incur an additional amount of $1,200, which I think is excessive. And I know the fees in general are a problem for many of the nonprofits as well as the um other entities that have meetings there that really don't have a lot of funds.

So, I wondered if you should take a look at that and consider whether that's really needed. I personally I'm sorry about that. I'm personally I didn't apply back then because I was in transition of knowing where my catering operation was going to live. So, I wasn't sure I was going to have a place, but I would like to be considered for uh the preferred vendor list if that's what's needed. I'm not really sure why we need that. It has to do, I think, with insurance, but we all have insurance.

Um, so I would ask you to take a look at that and also to let you know that the three caterers that are on the preferred list, to my knowledge, only one of them is a Fountain Hills business and that is the Bachelor Pad, which is great, but not everybody wants barbecue for their events.

The other two uh vendors that were selected uh one operates out of um West Phoenix on the I17 and the third one I couldn't find out much about but their uh corporation commission did not even show them as being a business entity um as far as a corporation goes. So I ask you to maybe look at that down the road if you look at these fee schedules again that does prohibit me from operating there on a equitable basis. Thank you so much for your time. I'm happy to answer questions another day.

The last two speakers are Kimberly Bartman followed by Crystal Kavanagh. Good evening, Mayor and Council. My name is Wendy Dole. I am here because I want to talk about the thoughts I had after the last town council meeting. And it goes back to the same old stuff. How embarrassing. The dysfunctional state of this Fountain Hills Town Council is a in a sad state and it's imploding.

If a council member is insulted by their local news coverage because it isn't slanted correctly or leaves out needless information for want of brevity, they should not ask for a correction, rather hope for coverage more to their liking with a different, more widely read publication. This way, our town can be disparaged by the whole valley. Ironically, the headline quote town retaliates against area newspaper unquote is erroneous. It was not the whole town nor the whole town council.

So, this sounds more quote egregious than it is. The point of the article was an explanation of why the local reporter's table was removed from the room. I know this is old news. It seems if they are not perceived as being fair and impartial, the press may not have their table.

Interest interestingly, the table issue took a miraculous spin during the June 3rd meeting and instead of pertaining to a reporter's comfort and punishment for unfair coverage, it suddenly is a need for more physical space as per Mayor Fredel and that shall be the end of it. Brilliant, but a little too late for redemption.

As regarding media media perception, I'm wondering concerned that at some point perhaps the YouTube coverage may be cancelled due to dissatisfaction with how that media source portrays the members. Mr.

Watts noted in his report time, which was used to attack a fellow member and was allowed and encouraged to continue to do so for four minutes, that quote, "giving favor to either side of the aisle is not acceptable." Immediately after he spoke, the member he so blatantly attacked was silenced and not allowed to respond. How ironic. Perhaps the council could also be advised not to chew gum or eat their dinner because last time there was just a lot of chewing going on. It was very unprofessional.

We're still waiting to hear about the hit and run charges. The public has a right to know whether our lawbreaking council member acted as a responsible citizen and admitted his legal flight, his illegal flight. We don't need his type leading our town. If this is what reclaiming our town looks like, it should have been termed another acronym, EAT. Embarrass a town. Kim Bartman, um, longtime Fountain Hills resident.

I'm going to read a letter to the editor to the Fountain Hills Times by Mark Charno who now lives in Spain. Just in case some of you that do not want the paper um to exist in our town, I'll just want to read this to you. Um here's Mike. My brain kept saying don't do it, but my fingers insisted. Type now retired anda on occasion I hearten back fond memories of my days with the Fountain Hills times.

I spent 32 years at the paper, albeit a different ownership, starting as a Greenhorn reporter and leaving at the end of 2015 as editor. Afterwards, I also spent four years on the dis as a town councilman. Also, I sat on both sides of the press table. Oh, wait, the table is no longer in council chambers. Huh, that's strange. Where did it go? There used to be two press tables. Two? Yes.

The town's first t council and staff decided back in 1990 or so that the press should be acknowledged with the placement of a table. The paper these days does not publish editorials or it nor does it run opinion columns, only letters to the editor. Pity. I would have enjoyed writing my column about this petty removal of a table. Apparently, President Trump inspired a few council members to do something about press covers they don't like. Hey, let's take away Bob's table. Yeah, that'll show him.

We'll make him sit with the other deplorables and struggle to take notes. Maybe Ryan will now write headlines more to our liking. No longer will those inkstained wret wretches get away with their skully and lib partisan slanted yellow journalism. I'm truly embarrassed by this pitable maneuver. Please be more mature. As elected officials, you are right, rightly held to a higher standard and should act as such. Oh, wait. Having ethics seems to be a thing of the past.

Seems the ethics policy was removed. Fountain Hills and its people deserve better. Do better and concentrate on more important matters than taking petty retribution against the newspaper. [Applause] Good evening, Mayor and Council. Crystal Kavanaaugh, resident of Fountain Hills. There are over 600 apartments already approved to be built in Fountain Hills. There's the downtown Parkplace project. There's the Sandor apartment project in the Target lot.

There's the Cinderos apartment project off of Mountainside in the Lost Hills neighborhood. And there are the various other smaller projects that have been approved or already in the process. Some of the projects require a reszone. In some cases, significant res developments. I would like to request that any further reszones for multifamily not already in the queue be put on an indefinite pause until these numerous projects are completed.

I'm certain that many residents from the Lost Hills neighborhood and elsewhere who previously fought hard against reszoning the mountainside single family lots for more apartments to the benefit of the Cinderos development would be quite upset if this reszone request circled back to be reconsidered on a future agenda which was requested by council member Calvianis at the last meeting especially upsetting to some Lost Hills residents is that this council member literally sat in their living rooms with these neighbors and assured them there she was a no vote on reszoning the single family lots.

She waffled prior to the council vote but then indeed vote no. Previously the church owned the property at Mountainside and Palisades but now apparently it's been purchased by the developer. The residents still do not support a reszone there. So, who was council member Calabianakus representing with her request to bring it back for discussion? This property is zoned for single family homes.

So, feel free to build single family homes since all these one-bedroom apartments certainly won't be bringing in the families that so many say they want.

Like I said, let the developers complete the numerous apartment projects already approved and perhaps other small projects in the downtown area, but let's take a pause to understand the impact of these approved 600 plus apartments that will be developed in our charming smalltown community, especially those that impact existing established neighborhoods. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I would like to address that call to the public since that was called out by name. Go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

So, yeah, since that was mentioned by name, I'd like to address um Crystal Kavanagh, the chairwoman of ROT. Um anyway, okay, I take it back. Crystal Kavanagh, no ROT affiliation. Um, at the time I did vote against it, but according to Crystal, I didn't vote against it enough. I did vote against that project. I spoke to all the residents in that neighborhood.

They, and this is the interesting part, because Linda Kavanaaugh, our former mayor, and John Kavanaaugh at the time, accuse them of bluffing. They will never build the 70 unit. They will never build that. They will never purchase the homes. That is the exact thing. We can pull the tape. They were not bluffing.

So, the residents that lived there told me specifically they didn't want the urban style 70 units going in there and the houses that are going to be way above the sightelines of the original 80 unit project that was going to be way below the hill and it was going to be a suburban style housing unit instead of now which you're right it's going to be a lot of studios and onebedrooms and it's going to be urban.

Back then, they were going to make accommodations for traffic and and a whole host of things that they were conceding to, spending millions of dollars to try to make improvements. Now, they're not going to do one thing. They're not going to do anything for the traffic. They're not going to help the residents of that community, and they are going to build it by right. If we were looking out for the residents of that community, we would give them a chance at this point right now.

And that's why I brought that back and I'm proud that I brought that back up there to give them the right. Do you want to build the urban style thing or would you like to go back to the thing that they weren't bluffing about because they are building it right now? And so I would like to talk to Dorene and Mike and some of the people that I met at that time and said, would you like to revisit it? I didn't call for it to be on the agenda. I didn't call for it to be reszoned.

I simply called for a a dialogue between the the the residents of that neighborhood looking out for those residents. That's what we do. We look out for our residents. That's what I was doing. So, thank you for bringing that up, Crystal, because I'm really glad that you did so I can straighten out the record. And John Kavanaaugh and Linda Kavanagh were dead wrong. Okay, that's enough. We'll move on now to the consent agenda.

Um, actually, I want to talk about a couple of things um on on our agenda going forward as well. Uh, 8A and B will be lumped together because they're both um going to be talked about at the same point in time. And we're going to move agenda item I on the agenda, which is the uh consider consideration of possible action approving a law firm. We're going to move that up behind the um 8C.

So, um if some if if everybody's okay with the consent agenda, Rick, I think you had one item you wanted to We have one item that's going to be pulled from the consent agenda. That was item D is being pulled and C is going to be forwarded by your request, Rick. Yes. Okay. So, C will become our first regular agenda item. Um, so can can I get a motion, please, on the consent agenda? Motion to approve. Second. We have a motion and a second. Can I get a roll call, please? Council member Earl, I.

Council member Skilicorn, yes. Council member McMahon. Council member Calibian Nakis. I. Council member Watts. Hi. Vice Mayor Larby. I. Mayor Fidell. I. Mayor 70. Thank you. We'll move on to our regular agenda. So the first item on here will be the one that we move from the consent agenda which is uh item C consider consideration and possible action for approving resolution 2025-24 abandoning 10 ft public utility drainage. And I see Justin you're up there right now. Good evening Mr.

Mayor, council members. Welcome to the last meeting this year. So I'm not sure what the questions would be. So, I'm available to answer any questions or concerns to the best of my ability. Councilman Watts. Thank you, Justin. It it is a question. It's like on the pees and the dees, we seem to have these come back frequently and we're not from a town's perspective, we're not utilizing them.

So when I look at some of the setbacks and lot lines and margins and that type of stuff um I see people have already built into some of the pees and dees uh there I think in this particular one there was either a pool or a cool deck and it's happened numerous times and not always on the property that was asking for the the abandonment of the pee but on the adjoining property and this particular one is 10t wide that's what they're asking for and the other side of that is an additional 10 ft and that's where the build comes in where people build in that area.

So the crux of the question is really is it time that we look at these pees and du deees and say we're not going to use them uh and just get rid of them in total. Mr. Mayor, Council Member Watts, so your question is an excellent question, but let's back up just a little bit to some of your statement. So on the agenda listed as the aerial map, you'll see the area that is proposed to be abandoned, which is also called out as a parcel.

The opposite side of that, which would be east of that, the other 10-foot, all of those sections along those lots had already previously been abandoned, so they're not included in this. For reasons unknown, the neighbors may or may not have worked together or collaboratively asked for all of the drainage easements or the utility easement to be abandoned.

I would suspect, but it would be very very difficult for me to know for certain why that didn't happen because this particular piece of property is unusually also called out as a parcel. How and when that happened would have been prior to the town. So back to your question, we do look at the drainage and public utility easements on a regular basis to see whether or not they can be abandoned. Encroachment into them prior to that abandonment is oftentimes difficult to establish the timeline.

If we can establish a timeline, most recent construction after incorporation, it's not uncommon for us to work with that property owner and try to resolve that issue. the challenge we have limited staffing and the incredible number of peees and public utility easements and drainage easements that were recorded by the founding fathers almost everywhere in places that we would not imagine.

So if the direction from the council is that we take some time over the next year or two and look at some of these and see if we can come up with the recommendations, we'll follow that direction. You know, I I think I'm cheating a little bit because on a prior town council meeting, we had one on the consent agenda that I missed and I had looked at that in detail and there was an existing PUE and there was a pool and there was a fence that was built in the adjoining PUE.

So, I'm trying to take this opportunity to get a better understanding and really what I probably should have done is had this conversation outside the the council meeting, but I think it's time that we looked at the pees and dees and say, do they do we really need them? I don't know how many there are. And maybe that's a question for the town engineer and maybe we should look at it and say it's time to do away with them because they're more of a nuisance.

We just rubber stamp them for the most part. So, why continue? I guess that's the my point of reference. If you're going to be on a consent agenda, there really isn't much that goes on. We assume that you've done your due diligence.

Engineering has done their due diligence, but maybe we can avoid some workload on you guys by just looking at them once and for all and being done with them over the next two, three, four, five years, but have it on the agenda to um deed them back to the respective owners. So, my comments, thanks, Justin. You're welcome. Are there any other questions for Justin on this? Because we're gonna we're going to need to vote on uh I do. Thank you very much.

Justin, when you look at these, are they unique to each property and in blanketly approving them pre in in advance of the need to have them be abandoned, for lack of a better word? I mean, is I think as long as I've been on council, this is how you've done it. Mr. Mayor, Council Member McMahon, they're typically similar in regards to their width.

The length obviously changes because the lots and there is a process for an easement abandonment in which the applicant pays a fee and there are a list of utilities that they are required to contact, notify them and that utility has to agree to the abandonment andor some stipulations related to that abandonment. As long as I've been here, this is the process that has been used to abandon them.

There there are still literally hundreds of them out there and so it's going to it'll take us a considerable amount of time to get a hold of all of that and the information. Again, if that's the direction of the council, thank you. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I'm not arguing or anything.

I'm trying to understand the situation and I'm not sure that given the hundreds of easements and stuff that a blanket approval would be something that would be appropriate for lack of a better word because when you do bring these up and we do talk about them, it helps to better understand why the town is looking at this easement and why it might abandon it. Council member, each individual abandonment would have to go through the same process.

So, we treat ourselves as we would treat any applicant or homeowner applying for that abandonment. We would notify each of those utilities and wait for their response and either agree or negotiate the conditions of the abandonment based on their concerns. So, each one of them would have to follow the same process. The only difference is we don't charge ourselves the abandonment fee. Okay. Then maybe that's a conversation that we need to have at a later date. But thank you so much for your input.

I appreciate it. You're welcome, Councilman Watts. And and just to be clear, I'm not looking at looking at all of the PUEDs and just simply rubber stamping abandoning them. I I understand the process and I think we should, you know, again, if I had a spreadsheet of a hundred and I knew I had to go to SRP, EPCO, whomever, and drainage and engineering had to look at them that we went through that process to make sure, but we wouldn't have to look at each individual one.

It's something in your spare time you could have your department to do. Nice smile. I like that. Thank you. Um I'd like to make a motion to approve um item is it now 1A? Pardon? Yes. Okay. Thank you very much. 881. Um we have a motion. Do we do we have a second? We have a motion and a second. Can we get a roll call, please? Mayor. Mayor, who was the second? Brenda. Council member Calvianis. I. Council member Watts. I. Council member Earl. I. Council member McMahon. I. Council member Skellicorn.

Yes. Vice Mayor Larby. Hi. And Mayor Fidell. I. Mayor 70. Thank you. And as I explained, uh 8 what were 8 A and B will be uh combined. And Rachel, we have uh staff to talk about that. Mayor, oh we addressing D or did we just address D was pulled. Oh, okay. Thanks so much. Appreciate the clarification. So with that, Mayor Farhad's going to lead us through both um items. uh well a a point 2.

A but a and b um to walk through but we as a reminder we're going to be reviewing them together but we will entertain separate motions. Okay. Uh thank you Rachel Mayor and council. Good to be before you. Uh so I'll be uh providing a brief preface to items A and B uh on the regular agenda. Uh these two items are special use permit requests for res residential use in a commercial zoning.

Now what makes this uh request or this uh item before you unique compared to all well as far as I can as far as I've been here all previous SU requests is at the end uh staff is recommending that these two items return to the planning and zoning commission. Uh the reason being on the January 13th planning and zoning commission meeting date uh these two requests were presented before the commission and were uh subsequently recommended for denial uh overwhelmingly.

In response, the applicant has proposed is proposing a substantially modified request uh SUP request for both these items to address uh many if not all the points that were brought up at the planning and zoning commission. So as a necessary step however uh staff would need to come before you to ask that it be returned uh to planning and zoning commission to continue that effort. Now I have prepared a a slide presentation of about 15 or so slides of the original SUP request.

Um but keeping in mind that they will be substantially revised before they come before you again. Would you like me to continue with uh presentation? I I would think we would just need a vote on this. Go. Um Mayor, just a I'm sorry. Just a point of order that um I believe we need to open a public hearing. Okay. Yeah, that's the next that's the next step. So, I'm going to open a public hearing and um are there any uh council questions of uh Farhad right now?

Town clerk, are there any comment cards? No, mayor. There are none. Okay. So, um nobody's going to talk. Pardon? If nobody if there's no call to the public comments and I would like to make a comment. Okay, Councilman Watts Farhut. I think that Sans going back through slide by slide. There were so many issues from parking and the footprint itself and 78% coverage and there's a plethora of issues and I think all of those need to be addressed.

Are you saying that the applicant is actually proposing to address each of those issues that were before planning and zoning before? Mayor, uh, Council Member Watts, uh, yes, the applicant has actually submitted a revised plan. Now, staff does need to perform a a technical review of, make sure that, um, all the uh, uh, I guess required information is provided. Uh, staff hasn't invested too much time in um, reviewing it.

Uh but following uh a decision to return it to commission um staff will further review and and uh see to what extent uh PNZ commission's comments are addressed and and because of the zoning are you going to look at it from the SUP standpoint that it is you've got that 78% coverage that's allowed in an SU or we setting our own standards for the SUP when planning and zoning looks said and they're able to make their recommendations accordingly.

Yes, planning and zoning would be able to make their recommendations uh may may make some stipulations uh to that effect. Uh I I must be honest with you, I don't I don't recall the uh reference to the 78% lot coverage. I'd have to look. That's the 966 versus the 1250. It's so pretty the square the square footage. Okay. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So, it's I mean it's a significantly right more coverage than normal residential h has even even our multif family residential it doesn't have that.

So so as long as it's going back to planning and zoning and then it will come back to us as well then I'm okay with that. Yes. Absolutely. Thank you councilwoman. Thank you. Um, just reading this, the problems and the location that these two projects have are really of concern.

Um, I know that you haven't reviewed the substantial um, changes, but given the location, the alleyway access, and a host of other things, um, I don't know that I think that there's some things that the um, proponent, you know, is not going to be a are not going to be able to clear up. But I guess, you know, that is for PNZ to take a longer, you know, deeper dive into it and review it and bring it back to council.

But I I do have a question because in the um item it says that if the town decides either the original special use permit, you know, to deny it or approve it or send it back. So, are we just deciding to send it back? We're not looking at approving the SU right or not approving it. Correct. That's correct. Okay. I wanted to have clarification of that. So, and I completely understood what we were doing. Thank you so much, Vice Mayor.

I just wanted to make a motion to return the case to the Planning and Zoning Commission for review. Second. I need to close the public hearing if there's no more comments. And then we have a mo a motion and a second. Um, can I get a roll call, please? Council member McMahon. I, Council Member Skilorn. Permission to explain my vote. Go ahead. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Uh since this project really goes against the master plan, uh there was no urban high density originally planned for this area and planning zoning uh voted unanimously not to approve it. Uh I think it's only logical to uh either to vote it down or send it back. So I'm an I. Council member, was that an I? Yes. Okay. Council member Earl I. Council member Calibianis I. Council member Watts I. Vice Mayor Larby I. And Mayor Fidel I. Mayor 70. Thank you. Yeah. I there were there were two uh two SUPs.

So I need a second um a second motion for case SUP 24-000000004. Yeah. To make the motion or do you want me to make the motion? Go ahead. Okay. Yeah, I' I'd like to move to return the case SUP24- 0000004 back to Planning and Zoning Commission for review. Second. Second. We have a motion and a second. Roll call, please. Council member Watts. I. Council member Calvianis. I. Council member Skilorn. Yes. Council member McMahon. I. Council member Earl. I. Vice Mayor Larby. I. Mayor Fidell. I.

Mayor 70. Thank you. So, the next um regular agenda item is the possible action relating to the reconstruction of Palamino Boulevard. And um I'd like to make a couple of comments before we start in on this. Uh we're going to limit the comments. We have two speakers that are going to be allowed five minutes each to speak and we need proper decorum in the uh council chambers for this discussion. Please, no outbursts or talking in the back. Thank you, Justin. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

At the last council meeting, Palamino was not agendaized, but there was certainly a considerable amount of public discussion related to it. The mayor and council provided direction to staff to put it on tonight's agenda. In preparation for that, we attempted to address andor understand the majority of the questions that were presented that night. The majority of the information that you're going to see tonight has not changed. We have simply bulletointed some of those changes.

These are the existing conditions or what we're going to discuss. Obviously, the community feedback and concerns, very important, public misconceptions, alternate construction options, and the staff recommendations. As a reminder, these are the current existing conditions for this area. We have a 9-ft shoulder, 15 ft travel lane, and a 12-T two-way left turn lane.

As discussed earlier, the estimated funding for the project is about $5.4 million based on direction staff had received from council earlier this calendar year. One of the things that we wanted to discuss was granite. So granite is really a generic term to describe landscape gravel. It's important to note that each individual home has unique and/or different landscape features. The first 10 ft of that behind the current curb is in the rightway.

And we respect each individual's homeowners landscape and the improvements they've made. And when we go in and do construction projects, we restore that to asis and or better for each individual location. Sometimes that can be challenging, but we certainly don't discard their concerns or their needs or their mailbox. Driveway extensions.

As we discussed driveway extensions, while its primary function serves as a driveway, that additional 5T of concrete that we placed in the future that will actually be part of the sidewalk where the people walk on that 5t, excuse me, another one was related to mailboxes. The mailboxes will be moved from their current location out further into the street to the proposed location of the new backup curb.

We do these types of things frequently and each one of these unique mailboxes were constructed by an individual. We are of the opinion given our history that we can also employ very similar trades and reconstruct each individual unique one as it was. Any questions or comments up to this point? Councilman, you mentioned mailboxes. Does United States Postal Service have to drive up on the sidewalk area on the curb?

Do they still have that same access where they can drive right down the road and put mail in the mailbox once you relocate them? Mr. Mayor, council member. So, the delivery service really depends on the type of curb. If it's a vertical curb, historically, the letter carrier will stop at that edge of that curb or if they have an opportunity, enter a portion of the sidewalk at a driveway. So they have less distance to walk to make their delivery.

If we in this particular case, we would be doing what we refer to as rolled curb or mountable curb. The letter carrier would be able to get up onto it and reach the mailbox at that location. It's very very common for mailboxes to be at the back of a sidewalk. A good example of that is the most recent construction on Sorro southbound andor the east west side between Fountain Hills Boulevard and Palisades where we did that new sidewalk. Those mailboxes were relocated to behind the sidewalk.

So UPS or United States Postal Service approves of their ve their vehicles delivery vehicles to roll up on the sidewalk over that rolled curb and then back down. So they're up and down, up and down. Mr. Mayor, council member, I I'm not in a position to determine whether or not that is an allowable activity by their drivers.

That would have to be directed at the post office, but I would assume that if we're going to relocate the mailbox that we would make sure that we were compliant much like we would any other utility in regards to mailboxes. So, there's a clear set of definitions and guidelines that come from the United States Postal Service. We would comply with all of those which do not necessarily include how the mail is delivered in regards to the vehicle or where they park to deliver that mail.

At least something to think about. Thank you, Councilwoman McCan. Councilwoman, what? Your lights on. You have a question? Oh, I apologize. Go ahead, Justin. traffic control. So, design includes traffic calming measures. It's important to know that there have been a few calls from this area andor emails or texts asking for stop signs at the T intersections or the cross intersections.

In regards to traffic control devices, primarily those that require a vehicle to make a full stop, you have to comply with the manual on uniform traffic control devices and their guidance. In this particular case, there are several warrants that warrant a stop sign. One of them is speed. The speed has been measured over the last several years. And while it's slightly above this speed limit, the 85th percentile does not rise to the warrant for a stop sign. The next one is volume.

The number of vehicles using that roadway during a particular peak AM or peak PM flow. That number is also relatively low for the size of the road. And lastly, and this one is important, the crash data. We pulled a five-year history of the crash data and there was one crash and it was actually on Palisades at Palamino. So not meeting any of those warrants really defines why a stop sign is not needed.

And the other side of that, if we decide to put up a stop sign, when there is a crash, if one or more of those vehicle operators are injured, they typically hire legal counsel. The first thing the legal counsel does is ask for the warrant and the analysis for the stop sign. If it's proven that we do not have one or we did not meet the warrant, the original cause for the crash is no longer relevant, the reason the crash happened is because we put up an unwarranted stop sign.

So that causes problems more often than you would imagine. In the event that we meet the warrants for a three-way stop or an all-way stop, we will certainly visit that and construct it. the project status. We are in the very very early stages of the planning. We are still receiving comments not only from the mayor and council but from the residents alike. And so that process is going to take us a little bit longer.

Hopefully we'll get a little bit more information tonight and we'll be able to move the process forward. Temporary walkways, there's been a considerable discussion about that. There are not going to be any temporary walkways. When the curbs are pulled in and the landscaping is completed, anyone using Palamino to ride their bicycle, walk their dog, will walk on the street just as they do now. Encroachment. We had discussed this at the last couple of meetings.

No work will occur outside of the rideway. And we're going to go back a couple of slides here so we can look at that. As you can see, there is an 84 foot rideaway on Palamino. You can see that it's approximately 12 feet from the back of curb to the edge of the rideway. In the event that we needed to get into any of that 12 ft, that would be within the town's land, but again, respectfully, the homeowners, each individual one's landscaping would be restored.

Lastly, in regards to the PG82 binder use, we currently use adopted and approved design mix that is specific to the East Valley, the road volumes and the temperatures that drive really how asphalt functions. The design mix for our area is different than those areas that experience freeze thaw or considerable amount of moisture, which we are currently not experiencing the latter one, which is too bad. We could use some.

We will certainly look at the new design mix, but it's not likely that there has been any substantial changes to design mix for the east valley or the region, this region of Arizona. Any questions regarding that last page before we move on? Okay.

We acknowledge the community concerns, the introduction of the new sidewalk and potential changes to the neighborhood's appearance and character, the project duration and the potential for prolonged disruption, the impact of construction schedules on daily routines. So, let's talk a little bit about those first couple. There is simply no convenient time for construction, whether you're a homeowner, a traveler, or a business owner.

The ideal situation is that you would be able to come in and do it during the off- peak times. Well, the off- peak times are often referred to as the summer. But if you encroach into an area during the summer that normally experiences less business, they feel as though their business is impacted by those few customers that would come in. And the same applies to home ownership.

There are some of them that are not currently here at they're at another home or on vacation or enjoying some other part of the US or the world. While they're gone, they may not be able to anticipate everything that's happening. They may have cleaning scheduled. They may have lawn maintenance scheduled. They may have agreed to allow some friends or family members to stay in their home. Now, those things become difficult, not only for the the homeowners, but also town staff.

We try our best to work around those types of things, including but not limited to furniture delivery and pool service and those type of things. But again, there is no convenient time for construction and one of this size is going to take a considerable amount of time. But as we proceed on any project, we do our best to provide information in the form of mailers and on the town's website. And we do our best to minimize the impact to each of those individual homeowners. Questions?

We had already discussed the final landscaping. As stated, anytime that we disturb landscaping that has been installed by a homeowner, we go in and restore that area. The ideal situation is when we're done, you never know we were there. A little bit more of the misconceptions. No opportunity for public input. This is not true.

Everything that we have discussed about Palamino and all the other road projects and paving for the last several years have not only been at council meetings, but work study sessions published in uh on the town's website and other media sources. We are not hiding or keeping anything from anyone at any time. We do this publicly. The other misconception is we're taking property. The town is not going to be encroaching on anyone's property outside of the rightway.

Moving mailboxes, we discussed that in detail. And stop signs. This is the direction or what the council gave staff the direction to proceed with, which is pulling the curb in 5 ft, adding new curb and gutter, preparing the area behind the new curb for future sidewalk, a 6ft shoulder, 11t travel lane, 12t- left turn lane. It's important to note that at least slightly narrower travel lanes and two-way left turn lanes are an excellent form of traffic calming.

Not to mention, when we proceed and the project is completed and ready for pavement markings, we will use thermal plastic and raised pavement markers. This has proven to be very successful in other locations in town where we have included the raised pavement markers. Here are some conceptual of what it looks like. The obviously the photo on the top left is the current conditions. The one on the top right is what it would look like with a new curb but no sidewalk.

And obviously the one on the bottom is what it would look like with a sidewalk. Again, the estimate for all of this is a little bit over $5 million and and we have discussed that this requires a full depth reconstruction because of its age and the way it was originally constructed and it was also constructed over well a decade and a half. We would maintain the 60 foot here. we would add um an eight-foot shoulder with a five- foot bike lane.

Now, keep in mind this is the elimination of the sidewalk project. This is another option right here. 8ft shoulder, 5-ft bike lane, 11 ft travel lane, and 12t two-way left turn lane. This is another option that we could look at which is take the current conditions, remove the road, reconstruct it, change the pavement markings, comments, concerns. Yeah, I I do have a comment. Yeah, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, an option two, um, so we're not going to go for a 50 foot to lower the cross.

This is going to be the full 60 ft mailbox to mailbox right now. Is that what you're proposing? Mr. Mayor, council member, that's that's the that's an option because um it was my understanding that that'd go well over $5 million. The reason we were going to do 50 feet and not 60 feet was cost savings. So, you have an estimate of 5 million. How would that affect your estimate?

The biggest impact is pulling out all of that curb work, but adding all that additional repaving and regrading for that extra area of 10 ft, which is that's the equivalent of a lane width. So, these are rough estimates since we're not yet ready to proceed with construction. So, option number two, would we have to touch a mailbox or they would just be left alone?

Council member, anything behind the curb would remain as it is except for those areas where we would remove some of the damaged curb and replace it in kind. Specifically talking about mailboxes, would we have to remove, replace or reinstall any mailboxes on option two? It's likely that some of them would be impacted because they're built on top of the curb or on a driveway wing that may need to be uh repaired. Okay.

Well, I've not looked at all 137 of them directly, but I would suspect that one or more mailboxes would be impacted by option two. Not the same, obviously. So, you're saying it would be a few, several because um that that seems to be one of the points of contention that I think the homeowners have brought to my attention and I haven't had any letters to the contrary. um they're they're very concerned about the moving of the mailboxes.

So to me, if we can promise them option number two, repave the existing 60 ft and only touch mailboxes that might be dilapidated or something. Um that sounds pretty palatable, but I I'll wait for the speakers for that though. Thank you. Just for clarification, council member, I I don't make promises when it comes to these types of things or most anything else. We will certainly do our best and I'm good for my word, Councilman Watts.

But regardless, that street as it is today, asphalt shouldertosh shoulder is 60 ft. So, we're going to tear up 60 ft. We're going to tear up the substrate and the o and the over it's not really an overlay. It's a it's an entirely new I'm going to guess 4 in. Mr. Mayor, council member. So, the cross-section on this is 8 in of subgrade, I believe, and 4 in of AC. I would have to go back and look at it. So, I'm not sure where the There was a com comment made about 50 ft.

We're not reducing the width of the street. We're not giving changing the width of the rightway. We're just simply not doing the work that was originally proposed in the rightway. Correct. We we are not doing the work that the council originally agreed to. This is option two. leave it at its current width and just reconstruct the road. So, if I painted a hypothetical picture from the time you got to the edge of my property, because this is going to be a long project, right?

And by the time you got to the edge of my property, the time you got to the other side of my property, you literally have a process going on where you're tearing up the street, you're laying it back down, and you're also doing the whatever work was up to and including the rightway. How many additional days if we did the work that was in the rightway would it add to the amount of time would have been to just do the 60 ft?

Council member, the project duration really doesn't change substantially whether we're pulling the curbs in or not. The real time consuming part of this is removing all of the old road approximately 1 ft deep and replacing it with suitable material and suitable asphalt. So that is the portion of the projects that really takes the longest. And I think that's exactly my point. Doesn't matter what we do 60 feet into the rightway, it's going to be exactly the same amount of time.

So something to consider is that do we do this now and get it over with? Or do we do it again later and get into the sidewalks and the rightway and tear things up once again and cause the same disruption or is it better to pull the band-aid off now? So that's somewhat rhetorical, but I want to make sure the duration of time really doesn't change much once we do the asphalt. That entire 60 ft is going to be addressed. We may as well do or at least consider the sidewalks and the rightway work.

Is that fair? It is. Thank you. This is option three. Could Could you go back to option one before we go to option three? Yeah. See, this this is the one with the 50 foot of asphalt. And and this is this is the one I think that most of my constituents dislike the most because it's going to be 50 feet of asphalt with the five-ft extensions for the potential sidewalks that'll come in much later. But this this is the version that you would have to remove all the mailboxes. Correct, Mr. Mayor.

Council member, that is correct. in order to construct the road and comply with the US Postal Service, right, of bringing this. Obviously, yes, we would have to do that. Okay. Just just want to make sure we're all clear. Thank you. You're welcome. But in both situations, you're removing the entire 60 ft, the entire 12 in, and reconstructing the the street from the ground up.

So you may be shrinking the street, but you're you're destroying and then rebuilding that entire 60 foot width as you would from the very beginning. That is correct, council member. As we move forward here with an option and I think this is important to know when paving projects, reconstruction, milan overlay or anything else are considered and this is a year plus long process.

When we look at transportation improvement projects, we look at the area that has been selected in this case by the mayor and council Palamino. We look at the surrounding area and we look at not only the shortterm but the long-term transportation needs for the entire community including the local residents and the neighborhoods adjacent to it. Then we go back and we looked at the adopted policies and plans.

After we have reviewed that, we discuss it in great detail with the town manager and then we come forward with our recommendation based on those adopted plans and policies. And what you're seeing in option one was we followed direction. We did our due diligence and we came back with a recommendation based on the overall community transportation needs and the adopted plans.

Lastly, this is an option that certainly did not make the town manager comfortable when we proposed it, but it's it is an option. We had asked several years ago the council to allow for an experimental project on Elago between Fountain Hills Boulevard and Palisades where we would go in, repair the worst parts of the asphalt, do a crack fill, an emulsifier, a chip seal with a cape.

The reason staff asked for that was to determine whether or not it was a viable solution to help with our backlog and allow for an additional 8 to 10 years of planning. We certainly know that the experiment on Elago has been successful. The areas that received that treatment are in really good condition to this day and no additional treatment is going to be needed for the foreseeable 3 to 5 years. The second location we asked for permission for that pilot was on Chama.

There were two areas of Chama, one pre-incorporation and one post. There is a noticeable difference between the pre-incorporation treatment and the post incorporation. With those lessons learned, we would move forward if it is decided to go with a chip seal and a cape and do a little bit of additional work in regards to the emulsifiers and filling the cracks prior to putting a chip seal and a cape on it.

This is the least expensive and the less amount of the shortest duration project that would be offered. Our estimate based on unit pricing is about $950,000 to accomplish that. And this would be the end result. 8ft shoulder, 5ft bike lane, 11t travel lane, 12T two-way left turn lane.

Doing this is less expensive, would allow us to use the balance of the funding to address some of our backlog for the rest of the community and also it allows the mayor and council time to look at not only Palamino but King Street, Richwood, Boulder, and I could continue Golden Eagle and help us determine how we're going to fund that in the future because each of these locations are going to require millions of dollars and a lot of planning to achieve achieve those goals.

Justin, I have a question. So, I've been out to Palamino a couple of times with you. That 950 estimate for option three, um, does that include any curb work? Yes, Mr. Mayor. Where there is damaged wedged curb, we would replace those sections. That's that's part of our t typical operating procedure. Before we apply any treatment to any roadway, we go and identify the wedge curb. Sometimes it's buckled, sometimes it shift into the road.

We saw cut a little bit of asphalt there, and we make it a structural section, no longer extruded, but rather a structural section that'll hold out for a considerable amount of time. Let me ask you one more question. Um, in in 10 years, if this road deteriorates, can you reapply the same chip seal with cape? No, Mr. Mayor. So, the chip seal wouldn't go on it. The next treatment after that would be a type two polymer. So slurry seal is typically that next treatment. Okay.

Councilwoman, thank you very much. So if we select option three, there's no allowance for future sidewalk. So basically, this just keeps it exactly the way it is. And there isn't walkability basic. I mean, there is if you're in the street, but you know, we're a town that is expanding our sidewalks, safe walkability. So, this would prevent that. Mr. Mayor, council member, so option three is proposing to preserve the road and make it better for the residents that live there and the roadway users.

There is not a sidewalk option here, but it does not eliminate that for the future or any future planning.

it just wouldn't be accommodated in this so option if this is selected and comes back the future because this is a public street it's not a private street and a lot of people do walk on it I understand if there was uh if we wanted to put sidewalks on here then is that going to be really difficult really really expensive do you anticipate maybe a grant could be obtained for that or I mean I know you Well, you can't pull the rabbit out of your hat, so to speak, in the sense, and predict that, but um how complicated would it be to add a sidewalk sidewalks at a later date?

Mr. Mayor, council member, so the option three would not necessarily make adding sidewalks in the future complicated. What changes is the process decided? Do we want to pull the curbs in slightly or do we want to make the road wider and use some more of the rideway? So, five of the 12 feet of the rideway. So, that is really what drives the cost.

Our recommendation to pull the curbs in eliminates the need for retaining walls or modified driveways that are either up above the road or down below the road. By narrowing the road just slightly on other side, you can address those costly items. You're welcome. Justin, what's the time period for this option three? Less than the option one and two obviously. Option three um probably from start to finish um at the top probably five weeks. Okay. Thank you, Councilman Watts.

And just to be clear, the the labeling of of all the lanes and the separations that's included in that 950. It's just not the chip seal component. Mr. Mayor, council member. Yes. Anytime we do preservative treatments or any type of treatment, we reinstall new pavement markings based on our new adopted um details. Gotcha. Thanks. So, as noted earlier, the staff recommendation is to consider option three.

It's less costly, takes less time, and allows for future planning so we can address not only Palamino, but other roads. And it allows us to use that balance of that funding to address the backlog, which is townwide, not just in one particular location. We've certainly made some progress due to the council's budgeting of money for this over the last several years and we would continue to do so.

I think it's less invasive too to the neighborhood, to the residents and not having to move mailboxes and and and all that and then it allows us some flexibility to take a look at some other projects that we might be able to get done with some of that money as well. So, um, are there any other Councilman Skillicorn? Mr. Mayor, before we kind of dive into some debate, I really would love to hear from the design and specifically if they like one, two, or three. That's what helps us.

Yeah, that's the next step is to um Are there speaker cards? We have two. Yes, mayor. We have four. Two of them which have been granted five minutes, which are the first two speakers, Chris Brazler and then Pamela Pete. I just did this. Good evening, mayor and town council. For those who were not here uh two weeks ago, my name is Chris Presler. My wife, Lily, and I have owned our home on Palamino for 10 years. And let me start by saying I don't envy any of you uh at the head of this room.

Uh I'm sure being a public servant has plenty of difficulties, but you signed up for it and I know there's a lot of difficult decisions that you all must make and I'm sure there are times that no matter what decision you make, half the town of Fountain Hills is not happy with you. I think this could be one of those times where actually most people are very happy with you. Although I won't say 100%. In the last few months, I've heard numerous politicians talk about the will of the people.

none of you specifically, but repeatedly on the news I hear politicians refer to the will of the people. And I would venture to say that it's often difficult to gauge the will of the people. But I think in this case, the overwhelming outcry of the residents, the will of the people is pretty clear. And I have outlined a few things here that I know Pam is going to reinforce. The first one is either an option two or three, simply repave the street, curb the curb.

The second one is is minimize the disruption to our lives. Less is better in this case. Um the third and I know uh Councilman Watts stepped out of the room but there was a lot of discussion around safeguarding the budget of the town and doing that in a fiscally responsible manner.

Uh I would say the fourth thing that has been clear over and over that every single person I've talked to in the last month which is now probably close to 100 people is we as the residents of Palamino don't feel the need for the curbs. It's not that we don't like curbs. It was two things and one of those was not addressed by Mr. well, which is how long is this going to take? And last week or two weeks ago, I read the definition of temporary.

I didn't hear anything about this is going to speed up in the last two weeks. So, my fear and I think the fear of many residents is we're looking at a 5 to 10year process, which just feels like eternity for all of us. Uh I would say the next step, and I would give the town council, the mayor, and uh Mr. Wely a lot of credit on this, is keep the residents informed of the plan. I'm very pleased to see they actually had a PowerPoint deck tonight uh with options laid out there.

And I would say, you know, most importantly for all of us is not just listen to us and hear us, but actually take the input. Justin Wel is the only person I have heard in the last month want to, you know, even consider option one. And that's not a knock on him. I get that's his job, but for those of us that look at this, it just does not seem to make sense. Uh, I had an opportunity this week to speak to Andy Anderson and I gathered a lot of emails from fellow um residents at Palamino.

Andy is a resident of Palamino. He has 20 years of paving parking lot experience. He worked for Home Depot, Target. These are massive paving projects. He oversaw those. He would be here tonight, but he's currently in Northern Arizona overseeing another paving project. I called Andy and I said, "Hey, help me understand this in layman's term that I could explain to my mother what is going on here." And he said, "Chris, it's pretty simple.

As I look at this, and I certainly didn't do the bidding myself, but I live on this street. I've walked it. I've measured it. A simple curb to curb process or simple curb to curb solution, excuse me, makes the most sense." I would say, now that I've seen all three of these, and we were doing a very quick poll in the back room trying to be respectful with the noise, it's I don't think anyone that lives on the street is a fan of option one.

Now whether it's option two or option three, I think those both pro provide viable, you know, solutions. But I appreciate your time this evening listening to this and I appreciate living in a country as a veteran that actually hears its citizens and listens to them. So thank you very much. [Applause] Uh good evening members. My name is Pamela Pete and I live at 15038 East Palamino. The residents of Palamino's strong preference is that our street project be confined to repaving.

Elago residents were not faced with all the original po original proposed additional project scope as it is a similar street. And I heard uh the public works director uh mention tonight that he was proposing a bike lane. Yet in the February town council meeting, he stated Palamino was not wide enough for a bike lane.

So with a narrowly defined street paving project only, our key homeowner concerns shared during the last meeting would be eliminated and the project cost and potential for ongoing issues and risks would be minimized. The elements beyond paving have many residents thinking there is no question that it will lower property values and curb appeal, especially for resale.

As for the granite installation, the town engineer told me decomposed granite would be installed and the public works director stated in the last council meeting that the town would search for matching landscape rock for each of the 137 homes. No matter the proposed solution, you will not likely find matching landscape rock for every home. In fact, some homeowners have told me they tried finding matching landscape rock and were unsuccessful.

Searching for matching landscape rock certainly adds time, scope, and cost to the project. Who is the decision maker on whether it matches well enough or not? What is the process for accomplishing this task? Does the homeowner accompany the town staff in the search for matching landscape rock? No resident I've spoken to has any interest in the installation of granite or rock in front of their existing landscape.

Now for the driveway extensions, this would create a visual inconsistency since there are many styles of driveways such as pavers, painted cement, let alone the unique construction required for steep driveways. No resident I know has any interest in changing or potentially ruining the look of their current driveway. Also, the town would not just be adding cement extensions to the 137 homes as many homes have a circular driveway in front of their home.

Therefore, a single home may have two cement driveway extensions. Since the town will now own more than 137 cement driveway extensions and granite installations, all homeowners would be calling the town for any potential issues or repairs. As for curb removal, the replacement, according to the RFQ, existing wedge curbs will be removed and new mountable curbs will be installed 5 feet from their current location. All properties are not even with the existing curb.

Many homeowners are well below or well below the current curb. They have large rock next to the existing curb to prevent their landscape rock from falling into the road. If you remove the current curb, there's nothing holding back the large rock or other elements the homeowner has installed to hold their landscaping in place.

As for mailbox relocations, that will not be straightforward as many are customuilt and coordinated with home designs with matching features on the opposite side of their driveways. As we heard at the last meeting, one homeowner recently paid $3,000 for a new custom mailbox, and the town proposes to dig it up and rebuild it. We also do not want any new ideas such as cluster mailboxes replacing our current mailboxes.

As for the budget, in the February 2025 council town council meeting, the public works director mentioned the $5.4 $4 million proposal was the geotechnical cost estimate. Does that estimate include moving mailboxes, adding concrete driveways, and the installation of granite? The extensive disruption caused by a project of this magnitude, one that uniquely impacts each individual home, cannot be overstated.

With a projected timeline of approximately 18 to 24 months, this prolonged intrusion will significantly interfere with daily life, not only for every homeowner, but for all who rely on our street as a primary route. The scale, duration, and personal nature of these disruptions will deeply affect the quality of life throughout our neighborhood. We are asking the town council for five following solutions. One, prioritize street paving only.

Two, remove additional unwanted elements, granite, driveway extensions, mailbox relocation. Three, provide transparency on project planning, scope, maintenance plans, and budget. When I asked for project documentation on April 16th from the town engineer, I was told, "We do not have any formal documents at this time." Yet somehow someone came up with a $5.4 million budget proposal. Four, add trafficcoming methods with public input. And five, minimize disruption to the neighborhood. Thank you.

Mayor, our last two speakers, Paula Stefen and then Priscilla, is it portal? Good evening. Um, I've lived on Palamino for probably eight years now. I've I'm a Fountain Hills resident for over 20. Um, my concern um with uh the the the first project. I'm first of all, let me just preface this is I'm really glad to see some um other options. Don't move my mailbox, please.

Um, and my concern is that um the the parking lane, I don't know what we call, but the parking lane is it needs to be wide enough so that people can get out of their car safely. Um, we're an older population, so and I have older friends that come over. They need the space to be able to open their door, get out safely. Um, and I think the the um the bike lane next to the to the parking lane would be, you know, would do do its job. Sorry.

Um, so the other issue I have with Palamino is it's a um it's a raceway. I live just a couple houses from Palisades and people are going 40 miles an hour by the time they get to my house. It is insane. So, we need the measures to slow everybody down. I don't know why we haven't proposed like speed humps. Um I don't agree with not putting um stop signs. Um, I've never seen strips put out on our street to say we don't have a lot of traffic or people aren't are aren't going fast enough.

Live on Palamino. You will know people go way too fast. Um, we need we need some measures to slow people down. I don't ever feel necessarily unsafe, but we we definitely need to have the amount of space for people to get out of their cars and walk on the street. And we don't want sidewalks. Um we're fine on the street, but we need that amount of space to do it. Okay. Thank you. Hi. Um, mayor, council members, Priscilla Pond.

Um, I've lived in Fountain Hills for 28 years, lived on Palamino Boulevard for probably 21. Um, kids grew up here, the whole thing. Um, so I appreciate the fact that since the last meeting, you guys have brought together alternatives. I do believe alternative um two or three, B or C, whatever it was called, um meet our needs better, probably C or B or three um because of the fiveweek component versus 18 to 24 months um because it can still be um viable for 10 10 years.

Um, so basically I really had planned to just write my comments, but my handwriting is so bad she couldn't even get my last name, so I ended up coming up here anyway. Um, but no, I I do just want to say I appreciate the fact that um, our concerns have been heard. Um, I do feel that. Um, I don't know if there's some type of survey of the 137 Palomino Boulevard members that you can take that um would would give us a a feel a feel of a vote for B or C um or two or three.

I don't think you'll get very many for one, but I appreciate your time and thank you, Councilman. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, so I think we we are hearing uh the comments here and it's actually very helpful. When I look through the plans, I see that um uh one actually has the narrowest parking lane of of all three options. It's six feet versus the current nine. The other are 8 feet. Um so the number one has got a very narrow parking lane. Uh number one also bull bulldozes the mailboxes.

Um, so it sounds like that one's out or at least that's the reflect the motion that I would like to make. Um, but also I I do want to have maybe a suggestion is I believe that the town owns some of those uh active speed limit signs that show your speed is. I believe we have a couple extra. Um, you know, and I'm not going to make this part of the motion, but this is something that staff could easily add or, you know, maybe other other options there.

Um but also a lot of people are want some sort of calming. I think the the lane striping that are part of uh two and three uh are a form of traffic calming and in my experience from that and of an engineering alter alternative they do really do slow down traffic and I can even see the engineer David uh nodding his head there. It does actually pretty effective job at that. Um so I am actually prepared to make a motion but I'm kind of curious to the people here. Do you want two or three?

Do you want the uh more uh significant longerlasting two or do you want the the tenure number three band is the bandit. It's like it's like an equal dispersion there. So, um I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna make a motion here, and it's a motion to prevent the uh mailboxes to be bulldozed, and that would be to proceed with option three. Uh and uh I'll wait see if I can get a second. Okay. Can I First of all, I want to just correct one thing. We're not bulldozing. Second that. Sorry.

We're not bulldozing anybody's mailbox. Councilwoman Earl, thank you. Um, I agree and I want to listen to all of you that you don't want the doing the sidewalk, but looking at two and three, I do want to listen to what's most important to all of you, but if it was for me, and it's rare that we were able to pull together in the budget for this to be done would be to do the full depth asphalt. Option number two, where you're going to get a nice good street that's supposed to be last 30 years.

If we did the uh chip and seal, that's only eight to 10 years. It's kind of like kicking the can down the road. You're going to have to do it three times. Now you're what? We're almost getting we're getting by the time you start redoing it, it'll be more expensive at I assume at that time than in you know every 10 years, 8 10 years. So, but then it's I guess it's you know it is town property, but if it was my my choice, it's not just my choice. I would go with the better option.

Vice Mayor, I think Councilman Earl just changed my mind because the reality is is that you'll all be back in 10 years, you know. Um, I I don't know if it's reasonable procedure, but I I would be voting no to something I just seconded. Come on up and I'll allow you to ask a question. Mayor and council, I am just confused. What is the difference? Can we differentiate between two and three? Because I'm kind of in agreement with Councilman Earl.

If I may, Mayor Justin, can you go back over what the difference between options two and three are for the audience? Option two is reconstructing the road in its current pavement width. Option three is in its current width with just a chip seal and a cape. So two is rebuilding it in kind and three is chip seal and a cape. And the time frame for rebuilding it is how long approximately? Realistically, you're probably looking at 12 months all included after the project gets started.

It could be a little bit shorter or a little bit longer. Oftentimes, we've discovered with pre-inccorporation roads when we begin to remove it that there are things that we did not anticipate despite our best planning. So, the realistic is is I would allow for 9 to 12 months versus option two versus five to six weeks to do the chip seal and cape. Yes, Councilwoman Earl. Yeah, I just want to reiterate that.

So, we're find out this was pre-inccorporated road, this road that we're re we would be redoing. Is that correct, Council Member or Mr. Mayor? Council member, parts of it. Okay. So, and I'm I'm going to be real brief here. When you purchased a home prior to incorporation, the road was typically dirt and they paved just in front of your house.

when someone bought down the road and across the street, they paved in front of their house and they eventually filled in that patchwork until they were no longer. And then the newly incorporated town came through and paved those areas. So when the newly incorporated town came and paved those areas, they ba paved the current conditions that were there. They did not reconstruct it unless it was almost altered.

So that basically if we do the chip and seal, we're just like putting frosting over a mess underneath in my I'm sorry to say that way, but but if you do the full depth asphalt, you're going down the whole street will be the same. It will have that good solid um what's the word for it? Uh underneath base. Is it you were going down? Did you say 6 to 8 in? Approximately 12 inches or 12 in. But to me, that seems the smarter way to go if we want it to last the 30 years and be a good solid road.

In regards to the longevity of any pavement, it requires that money is set aside for maintenance. And so that's on average 3 to 5 years, in some cases 5 to seven. We are currently in a backlog of 61% or more of the roads because that money has not historically been available. So, historically, a road will last for 30 or more years, provided you have funding to do the necessary maintenance. To date, that's been a little bit of a challenge.

And I just want to say coming up with this money to get this project done was not easy. So um Councilwoman, thank you. So if if number three is picked, it's the same it's the same road and we have a lot more money to address our backlog. And even though with the crack seal, etc., it's still going to improve and fix the road and with maintenance.

Um, I know that a few people that I've spoken with and received emails from, they seemingly preferred the shorter time they and see and not to have their neighborhood be disturbed for a year, etc. Of course, not the mailboxes and all that. Um, I personally like the fact that and a couple people have, you know, mentioned, well, this why are they getting their road done? And you know that's the same thing we hear you know in every single road.

But I think as far as our budget goes and looking into the future with less income coming in etc. I I would like to utilize these funds for that, but also to take a look at our backlog, you know, because so many people are unhappy with more of our streets than, no offense, just palamino. Councilman Watts, I'm in favor of option two. And the reason is simple because it provides the equivalent of three chip seals and overlays.

And the problem is to your point you can you can do one chip seal and cap. Then you have to do a different process and that's going to be ideally 10 years down the road most likely going to be somewhere between six and eight not 8 to 10. And then the third instance after after that same 30-year period you're going to have to do it again. So, we're going to end up spending the same amount of money, if not more, because of inflationary cost. We know we have the funds now.

It meets the majority of the requirements of the neighbors where we're not disrupting yards and mailboxes and driveways and we know we've got the funds today and it gets a headache off of our back for a significant amount of time. The downside is the length of time that it takes to get done, but you're going to be disrupted as many times over this next 30 years regardless, if not more so. Councilman Giligorn. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Uh, one thing also I wanted to point out is if we did with one and we moved uh, you know, the curbs and we changed uh, driveways, I do have some concerns because obviously driveways don't match, but there's also uh, you know, issues with topography there. You know, we got steep. We, you know, both both sides of the street could be some of them aren't that bad, but some of them are pretty steep. You know, I worry about certain cars that have my lower clearance.

we change the uh driveway nature, you could uh get into clearance issues. And I know that if I live there, I would not be very pleased. And uh so we do want to obviously prefer, you know, preserve the property values. Uh I'm willing to change my motion to two. Uh but um maybe if we could get I see some heads nodding. Could we maybe put up hands for for two and separately? Can we do that? I don't think we can do that. And what about for three?

So, uh, I'd like to amend my motion to to two counseloman. I'd second the motion if it hasn't been seconded. Well, you already second. If I need to amend my second, amending my second to option two. No more discussion. We have a motion and a second. Um, can we get a roll call, please? Town clerk. Council member Watts. I. Council member Calvianis. I. Council member McMahon. Nay. Council member Skellicorn. Yes. Council member Earl. I. Vice Mayor Larby. I. And Mayor Fidel. I. Mayor 61. Thank you.

Okay. Next on our agenda, we moved I up um consideration and possible action for approving a law firm to serve as the town attorney, providing legal representation to the town of Fountain Hills, and directing the town manager to negotiate and execute a contract. Uh Rachel, mayor, as you know, we were talking about this earlier. The RFP process has been a swift one. Um thank you. We've taken the last week to conduct interviews and scoring.

Um so tonight's the night to give final direction on how to proceed with that RFP process. I will turn that back over to the council for consideration and direction. Councilman Skillicorn. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just want to thank staff for all the time they put into this and uh I'd like to make a motion uh to consider uh to negotiate a contract uh with uh Timod and Jen Wright uh to provide council services. Second. We have a motion and a second. Uh, is there any discussion?

Any I'm sorry, any speaker cards, mayor, we received one online card and they were against. Um, but we do not have any speaker cards present. Okay. Thank you, Councilwoman. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, yeah, I I would like to see the law firm of Dickinson, right? um represent the town. Um as as we listened to their solicitations from all four for firms, that was the only firm that had the depth um of the staff to handle, I think, a a city of this size.

Um the other three candidates were basically solo practitioners. Um they didn't have staff. they were um I don't feel like we're going to be able to represent the town with all the issues that we are faced with on a constant basis. I think we we need the kind of firepower to have our interests represented well. Um they are a highly highly rated firm. They're known statewide. Uh and and so to me that would be my the primary firm. Um there were there were three other ones.

Um I know council member Skiilicorn just had a proposal for um the Tim Lota law firm. Um I just want to point out that Tim Lota and his law firm had has had a number of connections to this town. Um, it was, there's so much to discuss here, but it was reported in the Arizona Republic that the audit of this council, council woman was disingenuous. It was a witch hunt, and that was said by our former talent attorney.

Um, he he had resigned since then because of allegations that he was overbilling on the flat fee contract. Um, what concerns me is Fountain Hills Councilwoman Gail Earl received a proposal, two resumes and a proposal for fees in March of this year. That's when we still had Pierce Coleman representing us. Now if the firm of Lakota Tim Lota were aware of the procurement rules they would know that an RFP a request for proposal hasn't been issued.

So why would they submit a resume and a fee structure? Don't do they not understand the very laws in a small town and the municipalities that you need a RFP in order to apply for a job? I I don't see how they could miss that. Now, the the newspaper and the prior law firm called this a scandal. And Fountain Hills has had a lot on his plate lately, and we've getting a lot of press, statewide, some national.

This politically charged attorney is going to come to our town and reignite yet another fire at a time when this town needs healing. Their former attorney said in reality, council member Earl's witch hunt has little of anything to do with money. Rather, it's a pretext for her appointment of one her close contacts to serve as a town council, as a town attorney. They have represented reclaim our town in a losing law suit on a referendum.

They have represented council member Skilicorn in federal court suing myself, former mayor Jenny Dicki, council member McMahon, and former council member Blue. Now, in both of these cases, I think it's noteworthy to point out they lost. So, why are we hiring an attorney that has a track record for losing cases and not understanding the law? I don't understand why we would hire that person.

Um, this is something that people have suspected had been a plan that had been hatched and and I'm not making any allegations, but I but I am repeating some of the allegations that that I've heard in the media and and and and constituents that have written me letters and expressing their concern about what's going on here. And so once again, we are going to have an opportunity to get ourselves into a great deal of controversy over over a very controversial pick. I I would implore this council.

Let's just take a pass on on this volatile road and pick a firm that doesn't have a track record here in Fountain Hills. Are you about done? I am about done. Thank you. Thank you, Vice Mayor. While I appreciate my fellow councilman's regaling of the results of their media tour, um today we're here to discuss hiring a new town attorney. And while because it was done in executive session, as are most personnel issues, I can't give you the details of the interviews.

What I can say is that I was genuinely impressed by the Lakota law firm and an attorney that has litigation experience I would consider a good thing. Um I cannot say I was all that impressed by um Dickinson Wright. I think that there is a there's a special benefit to the personalized service you get with a smaller um a smaller law firm as there is with a smaller company. um that person knows your name and face and cares about you.

Your money matters a little bit more when you're not among these multi-million dollar contracts. And that's why I'm voting for um the LOTA law firm tonight. Councilman Skilicorn. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

You know, the law firm Dickinson Wright was brought up and I just uh punched their name into duck.go go and I see that, you know, their their name does come their website does come up, but just two uh links lower uh they come up uh there's an article ranking the most liberal law firms and when I go go to it they're right there at the top and then if I go to the uh Dickinson Wright uh law firm's website uh their website is filled with DEI propaganda uh they are 100% rated with the HRC uh it It seems like they would be more interested in their ESG score than representing the people of Fountain Hills.

And I just that's just got to be a non-starter for a community like ours. I mean, uh, we got to read read the room here. Uh, that is just inappropriate to even consider. Councilman Watts. First, I want to thank the staff because the staff did the heavy lifting to get this completed. We had four attorneys. It was an arduous process to go through. All four firms were good firms. Fundamentals were there, but I don't think we need somebody to put out fires.

I need somebody I think we need to have have stop having the fires and having the pot stirred incessantly. So, we don't need somebody that can start a fire. And I will be voting for Lot as well. Councilwoman, thank you very much. I concur with what council member Kalbanak has said. I have serious concerns about this um procurement process because it is a significant legal process and we do not have any legal representation.

We have significant questions um that need to be addressed in my opinion. But ultimately our goal is to select the most qualified legal team. One that can serve the town, the staff and the council without bias, without politically motivated or the appearance of impropriy with prior communications and um with a council woman that when this job wasn't even open. In addition, um the you know, I've read u Mr. Lotto's pleadings not impressed.

A lot of mistakes, a lot of, you know, mistakes in citing cases and law that the federal judge corrected him on and in fact um did a summary judgement versus just a judgment on the temporary restraining order. You know, in my opinion, we have the opportunity to pick the best and most wellrespected law firm. You know, for um you know, this is a huge law firm. I've worked in a large law firm at Snell and Wilmer. I know how they operate. I know how professional.

I know their high very very high standards. The regardless of the size, every client is a personal client to the attorneys that represent them and they're objective and unbiased and I was very impressed by them. you know, um to me, uh looking at a solo practitioner, um they they don't have the breath, the experience, the capability to utilize all facets of the law firm and every aspect that this town is going to need moving forward. It's not putting out fires.

It's called representation and and getting the most for our dollar. You know, we have an opportunity here to choose a law firm with no prior entanglements with our or political involvement in our town affairs to start clean. And and that is what I would hope we would do. And it really saddens me to think that um this this is we're that the council might select a politically motivated law firm that's a solo practitioner.

that to me based on everything I saw based on all evaluations and everybody that applied is doesn't even come close to Dickinson. So thank you. I'll add a couple of comments. We had a firm before that had a reach outside the firm. So the depth and the knowledge wasn't there necessarily for a firm as well. So um every attorney as I may have said before has connections and and they know people that have certain expertise in certain areas. So if there's a need there's always a way to do that.

So, um, I just thought I would weigh that in. And, uh, if if there's no more discussion, do we have a motion on that? Do we have a second? Roll call. Roll call, please. Council member Watts. I. Council member Calvianis. Nay. Council member Skilicorn. Yes. Council member McMahon. Nay. Council member Earl. I. Vice Mayor Larby I. And Mayor Fidell I. Mayor 52. Thank you. We'll move to what was uh labeled E in the regular agenda.

Consideration of possible action approving ordinance 25-07 amending the town code. Oh, I'm sorry. D. I knew I was going to miss I knew I was going to mess this up. Um, approving the ordinance 25-06 repealing and replacing town code chapter 7 of the building code regulations. And I see John, you're on deck. Mayor, council, good evening. It's uh been a few months since I had an opportunity to give you a presentation. So glad to be here this evening. I'll go through this fairly quickly.

We've had a long night. This is overall a fairly routine item, but uh something that we do periodically. So the town uses the uh international building codes as a part of the construction process for reviewing plans and and doing the inspections. Code books are updated every three years but generally every other cycle. So every six years we come before the council to adopt uh the newer codes uh for use.

Uh also this includes uh updating the latest of the MAG standards for public works construction. The use of the national building codes across the country makes it easier for the design professionals who are preparing plans because they have a consistent set of standards to work from. And so again, every three years we uh with changing the cycles, towns are looking at whether or not they want to update. Again, most do it every other cycle.

Currently, most valley cities are on the 2018 as Fountain Hills is. Uh there are two that use a 2021 and and there a couple others in the process of updating to the 2024. Keeping our uh codes updated helps maintain our ISO ratings. So the ordinance that you have again updates chapter 7 of the uh town code which includes the building codes listed on these two slides. Uh mostly the changes uh from the 2018 to the 2024 code are clarifications and some updates based on latest technologies.

There weren't really a lot of substantive changes uh to the codes. Our building official, Mr. Johnson's here if you do happen to have any questions about what those might have been to can help answer those questions. But addition to adopting the codes themselves, there are always some local amendments that are made to the ordinances because there certainly local conditions are you don't quite fit the national. We try to keep those amendments to the minimum.

As you look through the uh uh ordinance that's provided to you, you'll see the most extensive list of changes are to the fire code. No, those changes are new. They're carrying forward the changes made in the past. Uh so it's while there a lot again that's what we're used to doing what our customers are used to using. Uh with regard to the rest of the building codes there are a couple of changes.

One of which and the only one really to the international codes themselves has to do with the international pool and spa code. Locally we've had some amendments to that in terms of pool barriers but we've never actually adopted them as amendments to the codes themselves. O wanted to correct that this time around and get those pool barrier codes we're actually using uh into these amendments.

Other than those uh the codes themselves, chapter 7 includes other things having to deal with the building construction process. Those are mostly staying the same. We reformatting the code though to improve rehabil readability of the chapter and to conform with other town codes. But there were a couple of sections we found in other sections of the town code we felt fit better in chapter 7. And that's a companion uh item you have. It's the next item on your agenda this evening.

And so we're proposing to move uh se article 106 into 7 is 719 dealing with on-site restroom facilities at construction sites and then section 1023b regarding construction debris into chapter 7. There's one other change that's uh included. The state uh legislature just approved uh some changes that affect the length of of time for construction when it can start. And so we're updating our code to be consistent with what the state statute change is.

So based on this new code from May 1 to October 15, construction can begin at 5:00 a.m. and then go till 7 p.m. There exceptions for weekends and holidays, but that's the that's the main main time. And then as far as the rest of chapter 7, we renumbered uh the following sections again just to be uh consistent with the rest of the code, but there were no changes in the in the language of the code.

So in terms of preparing for this evening, we did notify contractors, architects, developers by providing email notice to everybody who's been doing projects over the last couple years and had their their email in our system. We placed a notice in our top system that they use regularly so they could see that and hopefully that big red letters at the top of the page caught their attention. We also posted on the website and posted notice in the town hall.

We've not gotten any questions, comments uh from any of our uh users of our system. As recommended, if approved, the changes to the code are scheduled to go into effect on September 1st. That gives anybody currently working on designs uh the opportunity to complete using the current codes uh before those changes take place. Are there any questions that you have of me? Councilman Watts.

John, we briefly discussed these and they and when I went through them, they didn't look like they were significant increases in cost to the contractor or by by default to the homeowners.

Um, did anything jump out of the And you didn't get any feedback, which I'm really kind of surprised, which is also indicative to some degree that there's nothing significant here other than some fine-tuning and the incremental cost on some of the things that you have to do now is marginal compared to what was already in the code. I just want to make sure that I'm not sure how to do any more than you've done, but if you haven't gotten any feedback, zero, then I guess we're good to go.

Thank you, Mayor. Excuse me, Council Member Watts. Appreciate that. Yes, we've gotten no feedback that I'm aware of. Peter's got no comments either, so I think everybody's understands. It's a regular process again throughout the valley. Other people are other communities are changing theirs to the 24 codes also. Do we have any speaker cards? No, mayor. No. Can we if I if I had the dog on ordinance, I would. Sure. Can we just Where is it? You have to say it. Oh, you got it.

Uh, I move to approve ordinance 25-06 as presented. Thank you. I second that. We have a motion in a second. Um, could we get a roll call vote, please? Council member Watts. I. Council member Calivian Nakis. I. Council member Skellicorn. Yes. Council member McMahon. I. Council member Earl I. Vice Mayor Larby I. Mayor Fidell I. Mayor 70. Thank you. And John, you're on deck for the next one, which is uh amending the town code for health and sanitation sections 10-2-3. Yes, Baron.

I really have nothing more to add. It's two sections we just put in chapter 7. It's just removing them from the other portions of the code. Okay. Um, do we have any council questions on this one? If not, I'll ask if there's any speaker cards on this one. No speakers. Mayor, just one. John, what's our ISO rating and and by what year are we rating? I mean, they change over time. So, I'm not ISO 2000, 2020. What is it? All right. Mayor, council Peter Johnson, your chief building official.

You may or may not have met me personally. I don't come to these meetings often, but um our current ISO rating for residential is a four. It's a one to one to uh 10 scale. Four, one being better. So, we're a four. That's based on uh level of service we provide, uh the funding we receive, staff, uh qualifications, amount of work we produce with the staff we have. And so, that's where we're at right now. That's the same for residential and commercial.

I came to work here in 2002 and we were a four then. and I've been able to maintain it ever since, which is a good rating. And the fire department does a similar thing. The two together um give us our rating. Thank you. I So I have a motion and a second, I believe. Or do I have a motion? Mayor, you don't have a motion? I don't have a motion. I move to approve ordinance 25-07. I second that. I third it. We have a motion and a second. And can I get a roll call vote, please?

Council member McMahon, I. Council member Skilicorn, yes. Council member Earl, I. Council member Calivian, I. Council member Watts, I. Vice Mayor Larby, I. And Mayor Fidell, I. Mayor 70. Thank you. Next up, we've got um F, which is con consideration and possible action of approving additional community center improvements. Uh Rachel, you got Kevin coming up. I do. Kevin's going to be joining us again.

I think he's going to be referencing a photo he shared earlier tonight um in reference to the uh community center lighting improvements. That is correct. Uh, mayor and council, um, as we discussed a little bit earlier, um, we are looking at, uh, some new lighting over for the community center. I was before you earlier this year talking about the lobby lighting and, um, the lobby alone along with the little side shoot that's there.

Um, and uh, you approved that lighting and we were working our way through the process and trying to find some lighting that uh, would work with the space and um, we quickly found out that they weren't going to be able to meet our deadline of getting it here and installed by June 30th. Uh once that happened um we started we'd also been discussing with the same lighting providers the bigger uh picture um of the lights in the ballrooms and the hallway as well.

And one of the things that they brought up was that we'd save substantially on shipping um if they were done all together, which uh with this the lights aren't heavy, but they take up a lot of room when you're talking uh 6 foot wide or uh lighting. Um, and so we decided to to hold off on that and carry that over um to this year's uh budget so that we could come back to you today um and and ask for permission towards next year's fiscal um for the remainder of the lighting.

Um and so first we'll go through and I'll just show you what they are and then we'll discuss um the cost of it. Um, so these are the lights that we that we're looking at for the ballrooms and the lobby. So, the biggest fixtures that you see in the uh community center. Um, these are LED lighting. So, um, they will be dimmable to where that we can increase or decrease our lighting as needed in our rooms. Um, and uh, this is the um, rendering of of that structure for for both of those.

for our smaller lights, the ones that are tucked up into the ceiling. Um these would be for the hallway in the lounge area of the lobby. Um and this is uh the look that complements uh the larger fixtures um that are hanging hanging down at a lower height. Um so last year we we had 50,000 for the lobby.

Um, this year's ask is for uh the 70,000 for the hallway and the ballrooms uh to complete out the lighting package to where that all of our major lighting that's in the community center will be updated um with this uh project. And with that, I'll take any questions that you have. Council mineral. Um where would this money come from? What bucket? So that there's a capital improvement for uh the community center and that's what this would come out of and we're just increasing it by the 70.

This uh it's not increasing that that bucket has more than more than 70 in it. This would just take 70 out of that bucket. We had already approved the 50. So then correct. And we're saving money. You said by doing it now because of the shipping. Doing it all together in shipping. It's about $5,000 for shipping. And so if we had two loads, that'd be $10,000 worth of shipping for um for each.

And this way it'll it'll be And anything on labor or maybe not because um a little bit in the in the um mobilization stuff, of course. Mhm. Okay. Thank you. See, seeing no other uh questions, do we have any speaker cards on this? No, mayor. Okay. Can I get a motion? I'd like to make a motion to approve. Second. We have a motion and a second. Can we get a roll call, please? Council member McMahon. I. Council member Skeleorn. Yes. Council member Earl. I. Council member Calivian Knakis. I.

Council member Watts. I. Vice Mayor Larby. I. And Mayor Fidel. I. Mayor 70. Thank you. Thank you again. Appreciate your support. Thank you, Kevin. Item G, I see Paul coming up as uh discussion and possible action relating to the travel policy for the mayor and council members. Yeah. Um mayor and council, thank you for the opportunity. I know it's been a long night already. Um basically at a recent council meeting, we were directed to um prepare a draft of a council travel policy.

So what we did is we took our staff policy that we presented and we adjusted it um uh to align with that direction for the the mayor and council for travel and we included a 50 mile requirement to be eligible for reimbursement for for meals, hotels, and mileage. And so that's what's in your packet. I have a copy of it as well on the computer if you'd like me to bring it up. And with that, Councilman Skilicorn, you have a question. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Uh, director, I probably just misheard you, but was it 50 or 15 miles? 50 miles. 50. 50. Yes. Yeah. Mr. Mayor, that sounds reasonable. I mean, there's um we already get a uh a stipen. There's no reason to double dip uh for the the travel. Um so, this seems reasonable, and I want to thank thank you for putting this together. And I'll make a motion to approve. Second. Can I ask a question before we go? Yes. Is that 50 miles one direction? Correct. Yes. One Direction from Yes.

from town hall is how we defined it, councilwoman. Thank you. Um, has council abused any travel expenses or reimbursement? I, um, mayor and council member, I think that's a subjective question. And um abuse is is not a very defined term, but um there's no if I was concerned about fraud or abuse, I would, you know, I would report to the relevant authorities. Yeah. Um I understand this is a staff policy of over 100 employees.

We're seven people and I think we're all pretty responsible when it comes to submission of mileage and rare travel expenses. Um um we are elected officials and our job requires us um to go out in the community and represent our town. Um that is a requirement for and that includes driving you know uh attend different conferences and events that are not in town and that are with you know reasonably a few miles away. Um, Fountain Hills is approximately 28 to 32 miles from downtown.

Therefore, in my opinion, the 50-mi radius does not apply because it automatically prevents us from getting reimbursement or, you know, for for reasonable miles expenses and maybe our annual hotel stays at the league. Um, you know, um, our monthly stipen of $400 doesn't really cover this. I mean it's a stipen it's not a salary. Um it you know to to fulfill our duties I I think that it's reasonable to assume that we are going to have mileage and we are going to be going to different events etc.

I I don't think that any of us um do that excessively. I know personally when I can attend a meeting via Zoom, I do, you know, and I know I don't always ask for mileage reimbursement. You know, as far as hotel stays, you know, um, we attend the annual League of Arizona Cities and conference. That's the one conference that I can think of that we do have the option to stay at.

And I think given the magnitude of that conference and being able to stay at a hotel regardless of the distance, you know, whether it be Phoenix downtown or Tucson where it usually is, um, you know, is is reasonable. You know, we're all adults, you know, as the mayor said at a private prior meeting, and we can all choose whether or not to stay at a hotel for a few nights once a year. Um I know this is has always been budgeted as my understanding it is in the budget.

Um it would prevent staff um from doing well with staff so I don't if yours pardon the draft that's before you is relevant to council. Okay. Um, so like like I stated before, we're automatically out this 50 mile radius. And I think that, you know, enacting this would have, you know, be would be too restrictive and prevent us from doing our jobs and seeking reasonable reimbursement.

um you know as far as international airfare you know governmental baggage and all that stuff as far as I know we have never traveled in that respect we don't anticipate it I don't even know if any of us has ever submitted um a claim for um reimbursement for flights or anything like that so to me that this is the breath of this the scope of this is beyond what we council has done in the past or I anticipate doing in the future Sure.

You know, expenses requested by council members and related to effectively doing their job should be allowed and should be reasonable. And given the proximity of where we are, I think that we should get it is important that we get my mileage reimbursement and be able to at least attend the league conference and determine whether or not we want to stay once a year at a hotel. So, thank you, Councilwoman. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, yeah, this is another headscratcher to me.

Um, good public policy would dictate that the town of Fountain Hills would want their council to go to meetings, to go to MAG meetings. Um, just just to list a few, I I know there's five major board meetings. Um, I'm on the public safety, military affairs, and the courts for the Arizona League of Cities and Towns. I'm on the budget, finance, economic development committee for the Arizona Leagues and Cities and Towns.

Domestic violence council for the Maricopa Association of Governments, Human Services, and Community Initiatives for Maricopa Association of Governments. you can see where this is going. Um I think the other three major ones Peggy sits on. And so of all the council members up here, we're the only ones that are sitting on these boards that might require travel, might require lunches. Once again, it seems like we're being singled out for doing a good job.

Why wouldn't be why what company in America would say that all their employees are going to have to pay their own freight to to for continuing education or to represent the company or the town or the state or the government they work for. Once again, this seems punitive in nature. It's designed just for town council members. There's been no allegation of abuse. So why would we not be encouraging our public officials to meet with other public officials and get smarter so we can do a better job?

I you know I just wish somebody would explain this to me because this doesn't make sense. What is the policy behind denying this council mileage or a lunch? Can anybody explain that to me? Jerry, can you explain that to me? I don't understand the policy behind this. Is it to build the roads? Is it to build the roads? Are we denying mileage? Yes. Um, there's town cars that are available if you need a car. Are they available? They are available. Well, that's good to know.

Do they have box lunches, too? Well, yeah, we leave them in the car overnight. Anyway, I just I just think this is just another poke in the eye to common sense and I it's just unfortunate that meeting after meeting after meeting we have to talk about nonsense. Nobody has vice mayor. I started out where I was actually going to argue about this and why I feel it's necessary.

But now I have more of a general statement to make which I find it very interesting the fervor with which the government will come and put policies around you and limit you. But the moment that it is introduced to limit government, apparently they're being accused of fraud or abuse or there needs to be some crime that's been committed in order for us to enact a policy that we did not have in town.

And I just find it interesting that that is not the same standard set when it comes to limiting you. So, as far as this travel policy goes for more than 50 miles, that seems completely fair to me. That's in line with many other companies inside of 50 miles. That's my drive every day. I mean, I don't know. I I don't see why there's so much anger among my fellow council members over something that limits government, which I for one enjoy.

Could Could the town manager could Could you just weigh in on that? Are we getting some kind of special exceptions here that the staff is not? Point of order. You weren't recognized. Yeah. Can Can we go in order? Um, councilwoman, I'm okay with letting Brenda go first and have that answered and then I'll talk, you know. Thank you. So remember this is an initiative that was requested by this body or by a majority from this body. This the the staff don't have a a stake in this.

So I want to make that clear that we brought forth what was requested and what was asked before. So and it reflects the discussion that was had around it. So at at the end of the day, this is a decision of the body to set parameters or policy around the travel procedures that you guys would like to follow. That being said, it is modeled after what staff does.

The staff conversation around the 50 miles is really focuses around the fact that a number of our staff serve on um they serve on panels, they serve on discussions, they are volunteers a lot of times for local conferences. um they travel so they have those re recommendations. We've talked about when and how that makes, you know, sense for those to stay.

I can I can speak from experience that when you have to be down at the conference center in downtown Phoenix and you're volunteering and you're there at 6:00 a.m. to help set up and move tables and haul stuff. Yeah. I mean, it it it is a it is it is a process and it can be wearing. Um, that being said, this council can decide how they would like to manage their travel procedures and I wonder what policy they'd like to operate.

So, again, I don't have a a stake in this and where you guys want to go with it. Well, I guess my question then to be more pointed would be that if town car wasn't available and a staffer had to go 38 miles to downtown to a mandatory meeting, would they be eligible for reimbursement for their mileage? Currently, yes. But the there has to they the staff vehicle process would be that would be preferred and that would be priority one. But they would be eligible. Yeah. Councilwoman, thank you.

I disagree with um Vice Mayor Larby and her political um making this a political issue. It isn't. It's a reimbursement and travel issue. And um you know for those of us that do go downtown and do serve on committees and boards etc.

Um it's important that we do that and that we do get reasonable reimbursement for the wear and tear on our cars and um you know oftent times when I go to board meetings and stuff lunch is included so I you know do my best to not over you know request mileage and things like that. Um, I think this would hinder our ability to um, you know, perform our job duties, like I said. Um, and I I I don't agree with it. I really really don't.

I mean, 25 miles, you know, but again, it it's not our fault that Fountain Hills is in the location that it is and is and you know, downtown is 30 miles or so away. you know, um I I don't agree with it. And again, I think it hinders us in carrying out our duties and um you know, connecting with other communities, other elected officials and people that shape, you know, Maricopa County and our town. Thank you, Councilman Watts. I agree with Council Member McMahon.

I think my my personal experience several businesses always had a travel policy but always had a reasonable policy any time that somebody had used their own vehicle. My recollection of the meeting that we had last time was 25 miles one way 50 miles aggregate that's why we could include GPE for instance the Arizona League of Cities is another one we talked about the oneoff scenarios where we had um the benefit that we derived by interacting with other towns and so on.

I think that we got rid of our lobbyist and saved an enormous amount of money and now all of a sudden I'm not incented to go downtown and I'm fundamentally a cheapkate. So I don't know that I'm going to do that. Uh and and that's unfortunate but my recollection is completely different. I want to participate but I think this is punitive on the council. I do not agree with it. Every business that I've been involved with has had mileage. They've had reimbursement for reasonable thing.

If there has not been any violations and any infractions so to speak, abuses of the system, then what in the world are we doing? Mayor, if I may, we are certainly welcome to to amend change. Again, this is a discussion that we're just simply sort of taking direction on. So, if we'd like to amend it to if if the motion is to amend and redefine the definitions, redefine the mileage, remove, add, whatever you'd like to do is is absolutely fine.

This is just a draft before you and we can certainly take any direction you'd like to make on that. I sorry. Go ahead. I was going to throw out something else. We could follow the state's guidelines too if it take take the onus off the town staff and follow what the the state of Arizona does if you wanted to take a look at that. That would be something we could we could consider too.

I don't know how in depth they get, but I was going to say um we we could we could could do an amendment if a town car isn't available that mileage is allowed. I mean, so that way you have you have it covered either way if if people would be amanable to that. We could also let things be the way they are. It's true. There haven't been any abuses. Uh there's been good oversight by town manager. There have been oversight.

One of the most fidious accountants in the world is going to make sure nobody does anything nefarious. Then why do we have to change the policy that benefits the town particularly in light of eliminating that? Those points of contact are invaluable. when we have meetings with people and we talk to people, we understand what's going on and if they can't accommodate a particular business, let's say, then maybe we can and we won't know because we won't want to participate.

So, I don't see any point in in changing it, particularly when it's this aggressive. I I just assume if there hasn't been a motion, I would move to leave the the way we're doing things today, the oversight that we've got today the way it is and rely on the prudence of the council members. There is already a motion on the table. Okay. Point of order. There was already a motion. Yes. Yes. Second. What do we look? I would be willing to amend it. I don't know. What? What's your amendment?

Make it 25 miles one way. Same thing. 25 miles. Anything Oh, more than 25 miles, you it's reimbursed. So that eliminates the Arizona League of Cities this fall. Oh, in August. Yeah. Make it effective next year. Only a 20 25 minute drive, right? So that would eliminate that the one in August. Yeah. I don't know when this would go into effect. Make it go into effect January 1. Well, is there a second for the amendment? Well, we we don't have the amendment quite done, do we?

Oh, my amendment was just to change the 50 mile limit to a 25 minute 25 mile limit. And And when when do you want to have the effective date? When was this one going to effect? If you don't put a date in there, why don't we have it Why don't we have it go into effect January 1? Then what do we do next year? Revisit it? Um, I'm okay making it go into effect now. So, we can vote on that. If you don't like it, say no. Okay. Don't Don't we have a motion and a second and then an amendment?

Is that a second for the amendment? Vote on the amendment. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Will you restate your amendment, Gail? My amendment is that we reduce it to 25 miles one way for lodging and uh travel and make it effective immediately. Um I have a question. Didn't Rachel when we talked about this before the league and everything is already planned. We already have reservations. It's already in the budget. So, um I I don't see if this passes or the amendment passes.

I I don't really see the necessity of doing it right away. We already have plans to attend the league and we've already made commitments and um I think those commitments are really important. The league is one conference that we go to a year regardless of where it is and it's very very important. You know they have mayor's council and meeting there etc. We serve on league subcommittees.

Um again um if this is going to pass I you know maybe doing a motion that would exclude the league conference from from it you know so that we could attend that. You know we've discussed this. It's important for us to be able to spend the night down there. You know, things start at 600 6:30 in the morning, you know, um for staff, too. So, um I'm I'm not for approving it as it stands, um nor um having it be effective right away, given that we already have plans for the league.

I don't think that should be taken away from us at all. Can I have a point of clarification? Uh, town manager, sorry. Okay. Town manager, do we currently have any travel policy for council? There's been no adopted policy for council. Typically, we have mirrored the staff policy. However, there is however we have essentially abided by on a good faith process essentially. Okay. Thank you. Do I have a second? Um can I amend that?

I'd like if you do the 25 miles I would and we can add and exclude the a League of Cities and Towns annual conference. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Exactly. Okay. But wait a minute, because I'm still talking about, you know, her seconding that, but yet have it exclude the annual a league and so that we're allowed to go there and have it shortened down to 20 or 25 miles. No. Would you be okay with that, Rick? Or I mean, I know I'm not really No. Okay. No, I wouldn't.

I think if you don't, we're going to go back to the original. Yeah, I don't. Or we have the And then we have an opportunity to make another motion again after that. Another amendment. Another amendment. Yeah. Okay. So, I So, what we're going to do is vote on the original motion or no? [Music] Rick, what do you think? Can you amend it by eliminating it? eliminate the entire policy. Well, there's there's so much here, so much more here than what I anticipated.

And it's so much more aggressive than I thought that we had the conversations about that I think it needs more work before we actually look at it seriously. And I think we still ought to go back to the original what I thought was 25 miles in one direction from mileage and that there were exceptions like uh the the meetings like the Arizona League of Cities. And I really would ask the council members to look and say we eliminated the lobbyist. What benefit did we get?

And I I guarantee you we don't come close to spending the amount of money on travel that the lobbyists cost. So what benefit do we get? It's a huge benefit to be able to interact with other cities, other leaders. Why don't we table it then and have some more idea have some more work done on it? Okay, I'd agree with that. Tableing it. Make a motion to table. Second motion. Table does not um table does not come before original motion. An amendment would, but a table does not.

Table comes before original motion. There could be a motion to table subsidiary there is and there's no discussion on it then I moved to table. Oh you did then I second. I I'd still like to discuss this. Councilman Skilicorn. So I want to point out there's a significant difference in employees and elected officials.

employees have a job to perform and they might have required duties that might have might per pre perform them someplace other than town hall and they would have the option of using a vehicle. They have an option of uh you know being re reimbured for their own vehicle which is only makes sense but they're not elected officials. You know we do this by choice.

So we're volunteers effectively and when the town approved giving us stipens the monthly stipen it the intent of that was to replace the reimbursements and the travel and the things like that. Uh so to get this monthly stipen plus get travel expenses plus uh free stays in fancy hotels that is double dipping on the taxpayer dime. And the all the complaining I hear about this is is is ridiculous. You know, we get a stipen.

Do we really need to have a reimbursement, especially when there's town vehicles available because we don't want to drive a white truck? That's that's a inconvenience that that we we have to be reimbured for driving our own vehicle. Uh, I I think that that is just loses it just loses to what the people in our town expect us to do. We're volunteers. We work for them. We get a stipen. We should be happy with it.

If you're not happy with the stipen and you want to stay in fancy hotels, maybe this isn't the thing for you. Oh my god. Um, just to point out, mayor Robert's per per Robert's rules of order, once a motion to table is made, there is not supposed to be any additional discussion on the underlying substantive motion. There should just be a vote. Again, it's discretionary, but I'm just pointing that out. So, the motion we're considering is a motion to table right now. Okay. Thank you. Le let's vote.

Council member McMahon. Yes. To table it. Council member Calabianis. Hi. Council member Watts. Hi. Council member Skilorn. Lots of double dippers up here. No. Council member Earl. Council member Earl. Um, when is it table two? forever until we decided the motion was indefinite. Mayor, mayor and councilwoman, when you table an item, per Robert's rules, it comes back as one of the first items on the very next agenda. Okay, then yes, Vice Mayor Larby, no. And Mayor Fidel, yes. Mayor 5 to two.

Thank you. H I see Paul, you're ready and raring to go. Staff and CA pay uh staff and elected officials pay adjustment process. Thank you, mayor, vice mayor, and councel. Um, similar to the last agenda item, this item was requested and directed by council to bring back for a formal discussion. Um, council directed staff uh at the May 6th meeting to bring this forth as discussion.

So, previously, prior to fiscal year 24's budget process, town staff included a cost of living adjustment by the tenative budget presented to mayor and council. About three years ago, fiscal year 24's budget process, we started presenting data points. That's grown a bit in the past three years. And as you know, at the April uh budget workshop, we presented the nine uh data points on your screen for consideration. Uh and so we're presenting that again today just for further discussion.

As well as that, um discussion on council stipens. Um as we've talked about in previous meetings, the council stipens been placed at the same amount. The mayor and council statements have been in place at the same amount since July of 2000. Council and mayor uh stipen amounts may be adjusted via resolution uh in accordance with statute and town code. Um so with that, these are the data points that we had. Um and we're here for discussion today.

I also have Dave Trimble somewhere around and he he helps with this process of compiling these data points. So he may be answering questions as needed as well. Councilwoman McMahon. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Uh, Councilman Skilicor. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Uh I asked to put this on the agenda because uh I've been thinking about that uh you know the CPI adjustment for uh staff every year and uh I'd like to consolidate that and make that uh like an automatic approval uh instead of coming back to council and making it this thing oh last minute we need to talk about this. Uh I'd like to give staff some certainty on that. Um I would like to personally stick with the CPI number.

I know there's a bunch here, but um you know, frankly, someday some years CPI is going to be better, some days CPI is going to be worse. I think it averages out over time. Uh I like to give people the certainty of that. Uh but I also think that we should probably have a sunset of five years on that just in case, you know, there's a significant economic change or, you know, something changes in our town. Probably not.

Probably what I expect is that people uh you know, the next council will just approve that 5 years from now and keep it going. Uh but I would uh like to exclude uh council members and elected officials uh from that. Um you know I think the current stipen is sufficient uh you know especially when we're you know basically getting free stuff you know from other things too.

Uh so I'd like to make a motion to uh to give staff an automatic CPI uh adjustment uh every year for the next five years but only staff not elected officials. That's not an So I think this is for discussion and so what we would do is we would take the direction and bring it back for formal adoption. I would like to push back on that because we had a discussion about this and I specifically asked to be agendaized and you know I mean we can it says increase process.

I I believe we can we can approve an increase pro process tonight. If I'm wrong, please correct me. So I'm before I'm going to the way it's agendaized is discussion and possible direction. There's no action agenda. So it would need to come back for formal adoption. But again, that's what we're here to find out and then take that direction and come bring it back. Then motion table. So you don't want to give direction for us to bring it back for adoption? Mr. Mr.

Mayor, Tom, manager, you know, we already had this discussion. Direction was clear. I'm going to weigh in here. Um Gail, you had brought to the council um a proposed increase uh for council members effective the next election. Um, what is your thought about having an uh CPI uh index for the council members as well starting at the next election? I would like to actually what was the word Rick used? Equalize it first and then if we did go forward do the same thing and we'd never have to ask again.

But that would be normalize. Normalize it. normalize it and then then go to this adjustment, right? But I think that's something that if he says we table it, this can be brought back in September to talk, but there's nothing nothing big happening now. It comes back right as it just as it's written. Okay. Well, so and just to chime in the, you know, our legal guidance here too is that it needs to be adopted by resolution and that's part of this process.

So ideally we'll take whatever direction you'd like to take tonight. Council's resolution but is for staffs as well. So we adopt the budget by resolution. Okay. This should be adopted as a as a supplement to the budget process. Ideally what happens is we get the direction tonight. If it's the CPI that's great.

If it's a different indicator and I think that's where some of the discrepancy from the staff was we heard that you wanted to use a data point but we were unclear as to which one or if there was consensus on that. So, I'd like to get consensus from everybody. We will bring it back via a resolution at the first meeting in September so that we can adopt it, formalize it, and use it as part of next year's budget process.

Councilwoman Earl, were you looking for some sort of an adjustment, a one-time adjustment to the council members and then hooked to the CPI? Yes. Okay. So, but that there's no rush for that. I don't think we have time if that doesn't go into effect until the next the new council is seated. But if we're going to give some direction tonight to staff, um, we should do that, right? So, arguably, I know that seems like a long time away, but there will be an election, uh, you know, next August, right?

July, July. So, that, you know, if we want to make that process clear now before anybody declares as a candidate, and that way there's, you know, again, everybody kind of goes in with eyes wide open. It's not a bad thing necessarily. But to your point, there's not necessarily rush, but it's if we can if we can put it all together as a package, that's always fine, too. Are you saying to do that tonight or you mean like in September? In September when we bring it all back September, I would.

So, to be clear, I'd like to make sure that I I understand what you would like to see back when we come back in September. Would like to see that in September, Councilman Watts. So, I'm all for at some point giving a CPI increase to staff in total. What I'm against is a unilateral CPI increase to the underperformers and the overperformers. My suggestion is you have the CPI against the entire staff budget.

you you provide MBOs to the staff departments and you manage it like the private sector does which is you reward some more than others and and you and you do an evaluation like a review that you would do this unilateral everybody gets two and a half 3% whatever that number is doesn't work for me I'm going to push back just a little bit on that and that there that deserves far more conversation than what we're prepared to have tonight absolutely because that is a huge deviation and it is a a significant administrative conversation.

I I don't disagree with that. I'm just And I also think that um you have town staff that manage the people and know um if they're not performing, they're not going to they're not going to be here. I'm not threatening anybody. So don't take that%. But I think the staff does a good job of managing their people and they and it's a cost of living. Yeah. It's a cost of living. It's not merit.

and and to change that and have a merit I mean it opens up a whole new uh responsibility which we've never done from that perspective I understand it's cost of living but I would also increase it maybe a 5% from a budget perspective so I increase the value to be able to reward those and I kind of normalize things but you're right it's a it's a much deeper conversation than what we're able to have tonight so I didn't hear a second for the tableabling are we are we going to tabled or not?

We're we're we're having conversation. Councilwoman, yeah, there's no second. Um, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, my question was, is has the ship sailed on revisiting the FY 2026? Yes. Um, 2.5. The ship is sailed. But yeah, the budget, this is just a going forward then. Okay. Thank you. If I could just add, um, I know it at the risk of rocking the boat a little bit. I know it's a cost of living adjustment and I I hear your points loud and clear.

Um but when we looked at the data points when Dave Trimble and I did look at them um we would recommend considering a bit of a blended model maybe con uh considering a few of the data points because when you look at the CPI increases yes one one year it went way up one and then the other two years were lower. Well that yes it's a cost of living adjustment but doesn't consider employment factors. but we're also competing with other local governments for employment.

And um so that that's my humble suggestion to at least consider some of the other blending the other uh employment factors into that or at least have a conversation about it. So the two that we kind of looked at together was that second one, the employment cost index for state and local government workers. We also the last one we also pulled together a survey of other municipalities.

That one's a challenge because we're just manually reaching out to other municipalities and getting 15 to 20 as many that will respond. And the thing about that is it changes through the budget process depending on what council decides. But it is a relevant factor for us um in our conversations. The other kind of option is the league puts out a salary survey every year for local municipalities. Only problem with that one is it's a year in the rears.

It's looking at the last year, so it may not be as relevant. Um so just for sake of this conversation and taking the opportunity uh we would appreciate you considering some of those factors. Vice Mayor. Um, thank you Paul for that suggestion. And if it is okay when we do bring this back, my direction would be I' I'd like to see both options. Um, your proposed blended uh formula considering employment factors would be helpful in deciding what we do.

I also want to add to my direction that I agree with council member Skiilicorn that you know if we're not putting boundaries on ourselves and how we spend town money I I don't agree with tying that at this time. However, um since we'll be putting this toward the next meeting, by the time we're talking about it, we'll have solved the previous agenda item. So, it might solve itself. Thank you. I'm trying to understand this whole thing frankly. Okay. And and correct me if I'm wrong.

What we're looking for is a basis to um do the staff and council pay adjustments so that you guys have some basic basis to go from and in and we can increase that or not but you guys have a basic number in order to plan and budget accordingly. Is is that what this is about or in in the simplest form? Okay. Yeah. um you know, we're not going to be meeting for the rest of the summer, so to have this come back in September.

Um, you know, I'm for doing that, but I'm and ask the mayor and this is not to not be transparent or anything, you know, is there a potential e session meeting to discuss it or anything like that or, you know, because I would like to have a little bit more information, you know, before it comes back as an agenda item and I would, you know, in, you know, to understand it better and have a more educated discussion.

say I don't know that it qualifies as an e session as a viable but we can certainly schedule a work a work session if that makes more sense sure we can do that and just to touch on one more thing um kind of relates to something council member Skiilicorn mentioned um we could if council decide we could set in stone or it could be a little bit flexible we could do this analysis put a number in the proposed budget and still have the discussion but rather rather than you having to discuss it, we put it there and then that's just a starting point for council to make that determination and we can present the data points as such rather than have to honestly put you in that situation to have to discuss it.

So um there's there's options available um with this. Okay. Okay. So, what I'm hearing from just to sort of stay on track here is ideally I think these should probably be two separate items when we bring them back in September. One specific to the staff process and one specific to the stipened and um council relation. Does that make So, we'll separate the two. We'll bring them back. Although they are related obviously, but they they're sort of viewed differently. We'll adopt them separately.

We'll bring back a proposed blended version as well as other options for that adoption process. Anything we bring back that's related to council would be relevant to the next elected body. Just to be clear, is that right? What else have I missed? Any other changes? Are there thoughts that I want that you want to see when we bring come back? A work session. Oh, and a work. Yes. Okay. This is just discussion. All right. So, that's the direction I have.

noted unless I'm there's anything I'm missing. Oh, you're good. Okay. Thank you. Thank you Paul. And now we're on council discussion and direction to the town manager is as if we haven't given you enough. Is this where Okay. Do you have something uh council? Yes. So, I think I have this at the right something for a future agenda item. No, that's not yet. Okay. So, if if I can chime in, um I I did take some direction from our um public comments.

Um I noted that Miss Elder had comments about the community center um and some of the policies there. So, we'll get the council an update on that and then you guys and I believe we were planning to bring back some further discussion in the fall regarding the community center as well. Right. We we we had we had talked about that. Okay.

So, I have that noted along the lines of the comments about u Miss Elder as far as the fees, maybe looking at an annual fee much like a membership fee that that would help to mitigate some of the costs. Sure. I think um what I'd like to do is get you guys some background on where we're at right now, particularly with the catering fee and what she was mentioning.

Um because it kind of goes to the broader conversation of some of our bigger policies with the community center and some of the difficulties we've been navigating over there and perhaps that will lead to a work session as well. Okay, we'll move on to future agenda items. Uh Councilwoman Earl. Yes. I would like I heard there was a verbal promise to make no zoning waiverss without council approval. Um if that's there is there was there a promise to that?

If not, I would like to request at the next meeting agenda item for a moratorum against zoning waiverss without council approval for the next 12 months. I would second that. I'll third it. Councilman Watts, I think this probably pertain to the previous item, but this is more along the lines of, and I'm really glad that Kevin's still here, one of his favorite topics. A dog.

A dog has approached about their lack of ability to manage dogs in the park and they've offered to set up some sort of and I have no idea how to do this but it's it's a thought some sort of um authority that they can have over access and some membership fee possibly where the members show a card they get in. If you have an unneutered dog you don't get in. Big dogs go to their side small dogs go to the other side.

So they have some sort of an empowerment and I'm not sure how to accomplish that but I thought there's been so much turmoil that and they want to they want to assume the responsibility is what they've told me. So maybe we can talk about a way to do that. Okay. Um I don't know. I'm trying to um I would be I mean I care about how it's done. Right. Right. because I think we all we already pay for the park and things like that.

I don't want like a fee or something, but I am very curious to see them have some control. So, I I would I support agenda. Thank you. Did O3 its discussed it too much? Yes. So, just a little bit of a point of clarification before we wrap up. I know it's it's late. Um we just missed your nine o'clock deadline.

um as we add these items for um you know future agenda um we're we are going to make it a point to bring them back for discussion because we really don't have discussion up here right the idea is to have a discussion and direction so that we can bring back whatever whatever the results are so expect we will have an agenda item to discuss and receive direction and then it'll come back for further action after that point um because that's really required so we know make sure we're getting you guys what you need and so that the public can participate in that process.

So, I just wanted to kind of put that point of clarification out there. Councilman Skilicorn, uh I'd also like to bring up a agenda item in the fall uh to uh amend our homeless or ordinance. Okay. Second third. All right. I don't either. Maybe that's what you're going to tell me. Can I get a motion to adjurnn? Move to adjurnn. Second. All in favor? I. Thank you.