Planning Commission Rejects Indigo Drive Rezoning, Siding with Neighborhood Coalition Over Developer Infill Argument

e e e all right good evening uh this is the June 10th version of The Fountain Hills Planning and Zoning commission if you would all please rise for pledge of allegiance and a moment of silence I Al to the flag the United States America to the rep for it stands one na andice thank you all right Paula roll call please commissioner Corey here commissioner depa here commissioner kovic here Vice chair Watts here chair gray here thank you Paula uh agenda item number three call to the public Paula do we have any speaker cards yes chair one speaker card from Larry Meyers Farmers butchers those of lower intellect I want to talk about how much work you put in and what you get out I see you guys putting in a lot of work and then I see you not getting a lot out the town counil under this Administration isn't the first Town Council to have viewed Planning and Zoning in a lower or lesser light but never to the level that we see currently Dennis Brown in the last Council once said in 2018 while we were arguing about whether to put a nursing home at the entrance to Fountain Hills well the Planning and Zoning Commissioners they they do a lot of research and they're pretty smart but but they don't know how to run a town like we do that was the level of his insult the level of insult that was exhibited by our Council towards this body in the last council meeting is absolutely beyond my 42 years here in Fountain Hills which includes having worked with or worked for commissions the government I've known every mayor we have dead and alive live I've seen lots of Planning and Zoning commissions I've seen some that work hard some that don't work hard most of the time they take the input of residents and they take it seriously and they consider it and they make their decision and they pass on their recommendation they don't make policy obviously the council makes policy but sometimes the council places people on the commission and gives them a mandate it's happened before it's happening now we're ignoring uh the the intent of Fountain Hills because when it was created there was an intent it had nothing to do with apartment buildings it had nothing to do with crosswalks it had nothing to do with um uh whether you had an acre and a half or an R 1110 Zone it had to do with what was planned from the very beginning and then you purchased it and when you purchased it you expected it to be uh your neighbors as to what you expected so I would encourage you to do as much work as you feel feel fit know full well that the people are behind you and we're ignoring the council and their insults thank you all any more speaker cards no chair thank you Paula all right agenda item four consideration of possible action on two sets of meeting minutes from April 8th 24 and May 13th 24 Commissioners any conversation or a motion please commissioner Watts I'd move to approve this submitted commissioner depa I'll second that all in favor I I I 6 Z thank you Paula all right we're going to flip flop uh to make best use of people's time here this evening we'll flip-flop agenda item five and agenda item six uh so keeping with the um with the numbering on the um on the agenda agenda item six is public hearing review and consideration uh of resoning of two lots on Indigo uh from r118 to r10a and I don't see a case number on there I guess I forgot to put the case number that's okay it's not required Commissioners good evening I will step through a presentation of the request and then see what questions that you have this has been mentioned we're looking at a couple of lots on the west side of indigo between King tree and Emerald Drive currently zoned r118 with request to rezone to r110a the proposal is to then also uh subdivide the two lots to create four and uh the r110a specifically allows the 30 foot access Drive uh configuration what's often called a flag lot type development they're proposing that on the Lots then that they will be built with uh homes ranging in size from 22 to 2800 sare fet at one story uh in height so here is a map that illustrates the existing zoning pattern in this area so the lot in question is shown in green and you can see the surrounding zoning that ranges from the R3 to the r118 the area was was initially planted in 1972 with block 8 having two lots those two lots have sub subsequently been further subdivided so that uh the lot two on the north is now two lots and the lot on the south is also been divided into two lots so looking a more closely at this uh zoning pattern the history development that has occurred on this property starting with a lots to the north back in 2015 there was request to rezone uh those Parcels from the r118 to R3 with the proposal to put a 4unit condominium building on that lot uh that was approved however the condominium uh development did not go in and the owner decided instead to divide it into the two lots that we have today and build those homes on there the lots to the East are as were originally planted two r118 lots each with one house the southern lot built in some sometimes prior to 86 and the one to the north prior to 93 to the southeast uh we have a R2 Zone lot it was originally planted as one lot in 1972 subsequently replanted into four lots and each built with a home uh between 98 and 2000 to the immediate South ofing this property we have a originally zoned R3 tract in 96 it was rezoned to an R3 PUD for the condominium development originally planted in 72 replanted in 99 for the condos and homes were pretty much built out in that by 2000 immediately to the West we also have R3 zoning originally planted in 72 condominium plant in 97 and home was constructed in 2000 so you can see three sides of this ABS multi-resident Zone at R3 and then uh multi family to the southeast and single family immediately to the east when we look at all these together uh you can see the types of units built and the density on those uh properties and we take the entire area there leaving out the parcels in question for the rezone we have an average of 6.7 units per acre General plan uh the character element has a couple of goals and some policies that relate to the request that address infill development and how we might view that in context of the surrounding neighborhood I won't review all those specifically here CU I'll cover them a little bit more in just a moment but also of note the previous General plan which was more specific in terms of designations did did Des did designate this entire block as multi family medium four to 10 units breaker so going through the request and looking at it particularly with the general plan designations in mind does a requested resoning encourage infield development in a manner that will maintain and protect the existing neighborhood as shown the propos Lots sizes and density is very similar to the existing development particularly that to the southeast across Indigo it will continue to develop single family homes along Indio Indigo and the anticipated house sizes and sales prices are very similar to those in the neighborhood having flag Lots is a little bit different we don't see those all the time but there are examples of those in town so this isn't totally unique particularly the one off of chory Drive is pretty much the same type in an r18 District and also having uh zoning districts uh across from each other that are somewhat different Is Not Unusual as you can see from these different examples of many that could be shown from around town of smaller Lots across from larger Lots again very common zoning uh pattern here in town will the infield development be compatible with ajent densities in development form again the densi being proposed is very similar to uh what's in the area uh lower than the average similar to what's to the southeast the R2 and R3 properties that are in this area would allow 50% lock coverage the r110a allows a 40% lock coverage and the r118 allows a 25% lock coverage so it's again in that same similar range existing zoning districts uh allow 30 foot of height as well do does the r110a uh everything in the area is is uh one story except for the multi family to the west and south which are both built as two stories so again very similar to what's there the last one uh from the general plan will propos development provide a wide range of housing types densities and prices support the current projected populations it's a pretty small development uh so there's really not much different going on here in terms of providing that wider range of housing that we're looking for in the town citizen participation the applicant held a neighborhood meeting 24 people attended we've received multiple emails uh uh about this request which have been passed on to you and were the ones we had at the time of the packet were included in the packet and we had a number of concerns listed uh you can read them here not line with the um character of the neighborhood people in the area bought their homes based on a certain zoning development pattern and expect that to stay concerned with traffic character environment um having multiple backyards they weren't expected privacy athetics and diminishing views in staff summary uh we find that the proposal is consistent with the previous and current General plans provides the transitions from the surrounding higher intensity uh R3 zones to the r118 across the street the impact of two additional homes will be minimal on the area and on the traffic and it's is consistent with the density and character of the area therefore staff has recommended approval I've included one additional slide here as you have the citizens come speak I thought this might be helpful the stars represent the properties uh that we had emails from of people expressing their opposition to the request in addition to the one shown there we had one with no address listed so he couldn't put it on and uh one with the property there at King's Tree in Indigo that indicated she owned two lots but didn't say which two lots those were so I couldn't put the Stars on those otherwise those represent locations of the uh people with emails so again as people come up this evening to speak hopefully it'll make it easy for them to identify where they're from in the neighborhood any questions you have for me at this time questions to John commissioner okay I don't think so John uh Paul let's go to speaker cards all right there were written speaker cards that there were 11 written speaker Cards Against the project and we have four speakers the first speaker will be Larry Meyers and the speaker thereafter is Rick Murdoch I won't insult you again chair and vice chair and Commissioners so out of the Playbook written and adapted many times over for Fountain Hills we have a landowner who seeks to make more money by coming to the town for a rezone we also have a realer who is also seeking to make more money because the more the landowner makes the more the realtor makes because they're probably selling the land we have neighbors who purchased their properties knowing that this was zoned one way and then we have our general plan which is written by I I won't insult them people who don't take any of those things into consideration and only pass judgment for the rest of us for the benefit of the town the town being everyone I guess so this Playbook has been run over and over and over again it was run on the 5 acre parcel at Saro trino when they wanted to Z rezone at the C2 so they could make more money bought the land distressed rezone it the C2 sell it for $2.5 million screw the neighbors who are on the hill looking at a three-story nursing home ran it there ran it at Daybreak blow the top off of a mountain change L3 lodging Resort into a bunch of Apartments next to multi-million dollar homes looking down on the crappy complex ran it out on Ivory and peblo bought distressed property couldn't use it for what it was zoned guys rezoned it to uh multiuse with some sort of a condo thing going on upstairs and it still hasn't been built uh let's see kingst tree and Saro uh bought that commercial couldn't make that work so now we're going to rezone that to multi-use and we don't have enough parking for that and then again we have the target Plaza which was bought distressed in 2014 it should have never been a shopping center in the first place so it didn't work so now we're going to change that into a whole bunch of Apartments The Playbook goes on and on and on and this is just another example the people especially across the street in those big old homes they didn't think they were going to have a bunch of little homes across the street from them and over the years years we've changed all of the zoning in this area so that it could be higher density I don't blame them I wouldn't like it either you're devaluing someone's investment they came here for a reason and now you're giving them a reason to be mad so please don't listen to town staff recommend not approval thank you Rick Murdoch commission uh Rick is going to speak up on behalf of uh a large number of homeowners so no time on the clock for appreciate it good evening thank you Commissioners uh Rick Moro 112000 North Indigo Drive uh appreciate the opportunity to speak tonight and thanks to the har family as well for hosting the participation plan meeting that we uh participated in several weeks ago uh filled out their complete office with many of our neighbors that are concerned about this that uh are here tonight and those that have sent letters and unfortunately those that may be traveling and weren't able to attend tonight so hopefully you can get a fill for really how that map of all the stars represents just a few and and there's much more than that we do have a a great neighborhood we're very well organized and we have a great deal of respect for one another uh We've hosted many several in-person meetings with one another where we've been able to share our concerns we've attended meetings at the uh to talk with the har family about the the construction and our concerns about their development and we've shared numerous emails more than I can count about the concerns and how best we could come together uh as a as a one unit to present to the town our concerns about what is happening here with this reone uh we Collective the collective Wei that I use is that we've invested millions of dollars into this street in this neighborhood we continue to invest as we uh improve the community we do this as we build out our properties as we expand our properties and we've done this all as we followed the letter of the current zoning we knew that this was a contract when we came into place and we continue to follow it to today the change in the zoning that's been request allows for variances that we believe are completely outside the character of the neighborhood if you had an opportunity to drive this lot and you look at this space and you imagine the four homes going in there visibly it's just hard to even visualize what that might look like uh because it's so tight allowing for these houses to be double deep house uh housing in here essentially adding an internal Road into our neighborhood neighborhood in the very middle of our neighborhood isn't really rational when giving our current residential layout here uh thanks to the staff that showed the video of current flag ped uh developments that have happened in this community you saw the very first example of chikoy Street it looks very crowded very congested I couldn't even tell you whose backyards were whose and belong to which neighborhood there we believe that the intent if you look at the current map that's shown here the intent when this committee not you necessarily you individuals but when this committee approved the subdivision into these four Lots the intent were for four homes to be built on this lot now we're here chasing after one developers proforma rather than investing in the community the way it's been supporting the community members and the way that they've developed and followed the rules we're asking that we continue that as we move forward we would completely welcome two new neighbors into our street we love our neighborhood we know that we can bring value and and to the entire Community but we want to do it as the character of the neighborhood currently exists um I think I'll I'll I'll close there with just saying that we we in we we hope that the the commission supports what we know the vision and intent has always been for these four Lots we appreciate the time and and we hope to work with the har family in finding a solution here thank you next speaker is James Miller and then Ashley [Music] Gart good evening thank you for your time tonight my name is James Miller my wife Rosemary and I live at 11208 the corner lot between Indigo and emerald um we bought the house uh exactly four years ago this month and when we bought it we as asked the Realtors that were involved what about that land oh two Home Zone for two homes okay that was what we expected and you know I think what Rick was saying and other people have said we're looking to get exactly what we expected when we bought the house four years ago it's not unreasonable um if you bought if you lived on a culdesac in town here and then the town decided someone would to rezone take some land out of a Ravine and make a through Road those people they go nuts they say Weist we had a nice quiet street now we've got a through Fair um not that a through a through fair is bad it's just not what they expected when they bought the home the kids play on the culde saac they expect that there's not traffic going whizzing past and that's what they expected we expected to have two homes built there one day and we expected them to be a similar home the density of these four homes is twice what it should be and the noise level will get from the homes um with cars coming out into Indigo straight from that flag lot will be you know a lot more than what we've seen there um we just don't really want to change the character of the neighborhood and we feel that this a this is a character changer for us I've spoken of many Realtors and um they all tell me I said well is it going to impact the value of my house they all say yes you've got a you've got poster stand siiz homes built one house away from you it's going to downgrade your neighborhood the har family very nice presentation they have they were very very gly but they're talking about selling these houses for anywhere from 1.2 to 1.6 I don't know I I see houses in Fountain Hills that are having trouble be selling uh up up higher with great views and and and bigger homes and they're having trouble getting $2 million so I don't I think the 1.6 is a is is is a dream it's not going to happen and then then we're going to have homes in there that are much less value than ours they're going to be less it's a poster siiz lot it's a lot less square footage the homes are going to be worth less he's trying to say well because they're new homes my home's only four years old five four or five years old you know it's it's it's not been Deval devalued because of its age it's still quite vital so I think you know just in closing I'd like to say we want want to maintain the same type of neighborhood we bought into when we moved here and just like the culdesac person who would have Liv in a CAC and get a through Street they weren't expecting that they weren't planning on that um and they don't want it so thank you very much for your time appreciate Mr Miller you're you're the southeast adjacent parel there top emerald and IND Tob okay the one that has a lot of improvements I put in we we put into the home hundreds of thousands of dollars we put in hi good evening I'm Ashley gher I reside on lot 2A 112000 North Indigo Drive so much like Jim and what have Rick has stated um we purchased these homes not too long ago expectation that the Lots would be zoned as current state um so we heard a very good presentation tonight about um the reason why and showed some examples of zoning um but they missed the mark on the North and East uh properties which my property sits directly to the north um and personally think has a great deal of impact here with the um requirements that they're requesting such as uh 7 foot setbacks as you can imagine that would be a little tight um to current zoning so honestly it's very disappointing that we are here tonight to discuss these requirements that have been in place for several years um and that we all bought into the proposed that back will unreasonably encroach on my property as well as the other neighbors that you see on the other lot uh in the emerald Town Homes um and we've discussed these concerns with the har family in their meetings um we've tried to um come to some solutions with current zoning requirements only to receive a response that that does not fit in their performa that was very disheartening to hear and I'll just close on um I support to the properties being zoned as current zoning um and I do feel that we do need to have some new neighbors just not four out of time thank you barad you going to look into Mr Miller's permit applications uh okay any more speaker cards Paula no chair all right uh Mr har no time on the clock for you but if if you'd like to uh speak you're welcome to thank you for your time um I just want to probably maybe hit the highlights U that the neighborhood is a mixed a mixed character neighborhood it's it's the property that we were on that whole block including the neighbors to the north are all Zone except for us at this point our Zone multif family uh the people to the north if somebody were to purchase their house they could tear it down and build apartments at this point or Condominiums and still be within the existing zoning that is on their property um the average density surrounding the area is .7 dwelling units per Acer uh the per proposed density for the lots that we were doing will be three dwelling units per acre um the character in neighborhood is currently multif family or smaller Lots uh there is no cesac plan for this Lots it's a it's two homes sitting on the center of what would be the both Lots with a easement two easements in the back to access the back so yes there are four driveways but there's two houses on the street um uh the uh you know if if if it's a it's a a big thing for the owners to the north of us at the 102 10200 uh North Indigo we would be happy to stipulate a 10- foot side yard setback a buding their property uh they do have a six or seven foot block wall fence there at this time I don't know much difference that would make but we would be happy to stipulate to that um with the requested change we are actually building on lots of similar size to most well probably 90% of the other single family residential homes of similar value surrounding it according to the general plan review uh infield is compatible with adjacent adjacent residential Destinies densities and development to protect the character of the residential neighborhood which I believe we're doing by buffering between two-story multif family condo developments and single family residences on the east side of the road which there's if I remember correctly there's five four of which are on smaller Lots than we are proposing um uh a character type typically includes Lots between 6,000 and 15,000 square ft ours are a minimum of 11,000 700 up to 16,600 square F feet these lots have been bacon for 24 years since all the surrounding properties have been built and um lastly according to the staff report to meet the policy of the general plan a more appropriate consideration would be to have smaller lots to achieve a density of 68 units per acre for more variety of housing options we're proposing three units to the acre which is half or less than what the general plan suggested so thank you for your time if you have any questions I'd be happy to answer them commissioner any questions for the applicant yeah the a 10- foot side I I I assume the houses are going to be oriented uh be to the east the uh the houses the front of the house ofac e the rear where most of the public space is will be to the West on all four lots and what do you anticipate the um I mean with with and3 foot minimum Frontage what do you anticipate the uh width of the houses to be they'll be in the 68 to 74 foot wide which is about typical for all the properties to the U to the South or to the east the four Lots there I don't know if there's a specific there's no designator on there which those lots are yeah those four Lots I think they average 86 foot wide lots and they're probably my guess is they're probably under 70 foot wide homes on those lots and then as far as the the two lots to the north um I believe those lots and this is going for memory I believe they're 89 and 96 or 97 foot wide um the zoning as it is is of our specific property of r118 requires 120 foot wide lot and I'm going to try and look up really quick What U what our frontages are on the the lots that we were that we are proposing here it is aund and an average of 103 feet do do the Lots narrow as they go back no they do not not well a little bit but not not not but the frontage is still I'm exceeds any any other Lots okay except for the one directly across I'm because just the one thing I appreciate your offer to your stipulation of a 10 foot side yard but that's still only 10% of the width of the lot it but typical side are either s foot or 10 foot that's that's the that's the zoning and building set back and the people okay that would be better uh this property here and this property their average sidey yard set back is 10 feet and so they asking I'm what I got out of the conversation was that the the owners of this lot saying that they have a 10-ft sidey yard set back on the the left side of their house which would be the south side and and were felt that the seven foot set back that we would have AB budding their property wasn't the same and so we're saying we would we would meet that 10 foot sideb setback on that side of the property so it matched their setback that make sense yeah it makes sense uh um is my experience with these is pretty much a um and it's not necessarily here but a 10% side yard that's not the case in is um so anyway that's where I was coming from because it's not 10% so okay um again just to reiterate the typical side yard setback is anywhere from seven to 10 feet in in the building envelope requirements in Falcon Hills so we're what we're offering is to go to the same that they have on the lot next door okay before watch I'll get to you but before we move off of that and John maybe you can speak to this maybe you can't but what's what's interesting about the prior subdivision of these the original lot to the current Lots is we've had other zoning cases in the past where we've actually turned down variances um one on Travino sticks in my mind uh Travino and Nelson there's a parcel there that was R1 to 34 when it was subdivided all of the original setbacks were required to be retained in that why would this be different because we we would have gone from sidey yard setbacks here of 20 foot now down to 10 and now we're saying down to seven so is there precedent there let me see if I can follow your comments so are you talking about on these two lots or the lots to the North or allot I'm just saying Once Upon a Time this this what's in green there was 1 to 34 right no it was never no it's always been r118 from the original Zing at the to okay I thought I thought that that was 1 to 34 which would have had 20 yards so it was always 10 yes okay okay commissioner you mentioned the that that those lots have been vacant for 24 years why well they've been vacant for 50 some years since the town was built but it's been I was refering to the well I guess the question really isn't how long it's why and with this Market the way the real estate market is and the way Lots get snatched up here why why why have been sitting for so long well my guess is because of they're surrounded on two sides by two story multi family structures okay and and this is the second time in recent history that I've heard reference to the general plan that you don't want to make any concessions other than that 10 foot setback to a 7 foot or 7 foot setback to a 10- foot section setback any other concessions nobody has asked for other concessions other than us to just build two homes one on each lot okay and you told the residents that were at the meeting that it wasn't in your performa to just build two lot two two homes there I what what I probably said is it did not make Financial sense based on the size of these lots and the fact that they're surrounded on two sides by multif family to be able to build a house to generate the income the sales price to to pay what we're having to pay for these laws it's it's not it's a financial decision okay thank you which is probably why they haven't sold in the past commissioner Cory yes hi Mr har um I think I I read in one of the comments that one of the neighbors was concerned they would have two yards adjacent to theirs maybe that was in 2A so is that the way that that configuration would be set up there would be split in the middle and they'd have two yards next to the yet property with the red lines yeah thank you the one you accidentally went to earlier uh both of these uh so this is the property of the person that made that comment okay and so there would be two side yards these two lots would AB their property uh what I can say now what I can say is that these are side yards they're not backyards so it's like there's going to be pools or anything else especially on the front lot it's there's no there's not going to be any pool or area there that is going to create I would think a lot of noise yes there it's possible that somebody will put in a pool here or play in their backyard same thing for here but you know with a with a 10- foot side yard setback if that was approved that's not space to do anything on the side okay so it could be a portion of that backyard but just not directly facing it correct and then if I'm imagining where all four driveways would be there's two in the middle and then where would the other two be they would both be on the opposite sides on the the far right the far left okay just concerned about that house that is directly is it 1104 looks like they may have you know four driveways facing them I could see you know a lot of lights hitting that house as the people are leaving their driveways there was there any other configuration that you looked at not that would be able to allow us to build a house of the size that we would want to build to be able to support and not diminish the value of the homes in the neighborhood I'm seeing this so that I'm just seeing that dirt road on the bottom left there was there any um configuration that maybe would have one driveway on the left with one home in the back instead of four or any other configurations that looked at there I mean okay I could definitely see driveways would be a concern there that might just be less impactful to the neighbor there okay thank you uh Commissioners Mr yeah so Mr her um what are you looking to uh do by Design um what two three four bedroomroom homes they're all three bedroom plus Den um triple car or bigger garages one level mostly contemporary styling because that's what's fires want right now and then nice outdoor areas in the back for patios and Outdoor Living yeah it would be in the 20 I think 24 is one of the plans that we've designed the others would be in the 2800 ft range 2900 ft range it would be probably priced in a million2 million six range because economically that that's what it has to be based on the cost of building today plus the cost of lots the long driveways in the case of the two in the rear and I believe we we actually had our realtor uh do us a map of the area I don't know in this package it was included in the package to when we had the uh uh what was it called the uh the meeting that we uh hosted uh that shows Zillow values for the area the houses in the area and our homes um would be right in with what the values of the existing homes are both on Indigo and on Emerald Drive so John as dense as the area is now um what has been the process to make sure that the infrastructure is good for four homes chair commissioner depal at this point in the process it's maybe somewhat minimal we have been looking at the uh the subdivision plant has been reviewed by the town engineer and also by the senat district and nobody's raised any concerns about infrastructure capabilities in this area at this point if I may follow up with that we have checked with both SRP and the water company and they have the facilities there they would we would not have to tear up roads or anything else it would just be additional Taps thank you make should bring John back up I got one more question before we do that if you would the 22 to 2800 fet that's a livable area what's the footprint of the house uh I think it ran almost up to 4,500 square feet between covered patios garages and front porches and that's which really I mean it did not exceed our our allowance of imperviable area and that for the three car garage but you couldn't put a fourcc car garage in because that would push it over one of the Lots we plan on a four you could do a four car yes okay I just want to clear make clear it was livable and what the over what footprint was yeah that is actually livable square footage again it's three bedrooms three bath a d a great room concept is what we typically build we the homes we build in F Hills are in that same typical 2,800 to 3,000 range they're in the two to two2 and a half million dollar range this is a this is this is a an opportunity for us my background our background is our family homes is we built 3,000 homes over the last 49 years most of them were back in Washington state where uh it was more of a affordable housing back then which is a really great desire of ours to provide housing to anybody thank you we can just one more quick question for Mr har uh the Lots in the back and I'm not familiar with like the elevation back there but um is there any what would be the uh is there any view back there for the homeowner when uh when you're on those lots and you know you see the uh this area right here this fence y uh there's no fence there right now it just looks on to the the contenting units right behind it um what we've we've shot our our grades and by the time we put in a six foot masery fence it will it will have views of the M okay and it will not be looking in the windows of the units behind it the actual the fence will uh come up above the window height so we'll see a little bit of their roof but we'll have mcdow's and then if you if you were able to look this direction you actually will get Four Peaks views the lot and back might I'd be happy to meet you there and we could show you the the person recording this is not able to get this plus anybody watching TV they can't hear any of this discussion that's going on which probably should come to the mic if you're going to allow it yeah Mr Miller you want to come up and and repeat some of that we we've got folks watching at home and a transcriber those Emerald condos you're looking at there ones that are to the Southwest there those are up higher than the other condos the other condos that split there are way below the ground my house sits in the corner there and then they're quite far below me so any view that they have over there any type of f any type wall or fence they're done and most of those people don't have a view on the first floor anyhow it's the second floor people now as you go for the second half to the south of those condos I walked over there and and looked at them and stood there and and and currently the people on the first floor have a view of the mountains you put up a six foot high they're like this you put up a six foot high fence like this the closer you are the more elevation it's going to take to see that you won't see them it's not going to happen and the people on the second floor will see over the wall right into the backyard of these people I also think that you know the the traffic you know those people in the back Lots there they're not going to be backing out of that lot they're coming out head headlight first and so now we've got that and if you put a three fourcc car garage in some of these homes you know I think you're going to have headlights coming out on the street all the time and and people you know live across the street of that are going to get that in their face of all the time which they don't currently again it's the character of the neighborhood is changing to the point where you know you sit in your house and you get headlights that are right in your windows and you say who's here to see me nobody just somebody leaving there's four houses there now certainly two of them are going to come out head first all the time if you for a point of clarity and I'll show this again from this point here on the property to this point here on the property there's nine fet of climb according to a survey topography and so that is why this backyard here actually sees over this fence and across there and has views of the the mountains John let's let's bring you back up one more one more question before you go um on the on the North the north are you building a wall a fence or wall screening on the North End of the property against the single family there is a there already is a six to seven foot wall on this whole length of property we will be building a wall here and then we'll be building wall coming down this way okay which this and this wall because the topography from this point to this point Also Rises quite a bit people on their here will'll be able to see over the wall all right John so I guess first and foremost this is a zoning case so we can talk about walls and Views and everything and it's all hypothetical right correct um if I was going to develop these Lots at this price point I'd be putting a two-story structure in what precludes that from happening in this res Zone Mr chairman both the existing and proposed zoning allow up to 30 foot of Building height there's nothing here that that could Happ prevents that from happening what's that can the current r118 and the proposed r110a both allow 30 foot of bilding height so there's no change in that say that's allowed on all the surrounding Lots Town done any analysis on on why these Lots haven't been developed historically no it seems to me watching them over time it's purely price point of the Lots with the current ownership and I'm not sure that that's a really good reason to force something into a rezone but something to consider nonetheless um General plan we reference a lot we reference it every month that we sit here I think I think I've always in interpreted the intent of the language in the general plan to be geared towards soaking up the vacant C1 and c0 and essentially converting doing a lot of what we've done over the years here which is convert uh um commercial to residential do you feel that this is in line with that intent being underlying residential already so yes uh chair the general plan you know meant to cover all different types of land use and development aspects within the town including situations such as this and giving some guidance and direction for the things the uh commission and Council should look at in considering whether or not a request is appropriate for the town I didn't really answer so I mean so words on the page aside for a second the underlying T intent or the spirit of it is really when we set that up it was to soak up it was to soak up vacancies right but it was predominantly geared towards soaking up commercial vacancies which can have and we've seen evidence of it it can have impact on existing adjacent stakeholders I don't think we really intended to apply that to residential and and down zoning uh chair I guess I can agree in part and disagree in part um figured you would the it the language with regard to infill development is intended to look at all types of development that could occur now for the most part the residential situations that we have are you know a lot here and a lot there see if I've got one of these maps that kind of has some of that if we go all the way to the last one again yeah so for instance um if we look at this you know lot just to the east here I believe it's undeveloped and so certainly we would expect in terms of infill on that lot you know more in the middle of a neighborhood for the general plan to suggest anything other than maintaining exactly what's there we wouldn't expect wouldn't would not expect that but here where you've got a different set of circumstances and the variety of zoning that's going on around it and the variety of dwelling types that are going on around it you could think that it's it's not unreasonable for a property owner to want to do something that blends a little bit more with those surrounding uses and so yes the general plan was meant to give at least some level of guidance and thought on how do you look at that um it is um General though as stated and so you know what is the character and what impacts character how do we maintain the character that is important aspect of it and would the in the commission's view the proposed change change change that character or some somehow take away from that established character of the area if you believe that is true then you should recommend anial if you feel that it is consistent with what's there would just continue to add to the overall uh uh land use quality and and development pattern then you can recommend approval so I I mean I'll I'll answer I'll answer split uh by return here I guess I as zoning principles go makes sense right I mean if you were to do this if you were to do this in a blue ocean cart blanch you know let's Zone 40 acres of State trust land um this makes sense whether it's 1 to 7 whether it's 1 to 10 whether it's 1 to 18 it all makes sense it's all hierarchal it's all step up or step down right what I want to be really careful of is that we don't look at a recommendation through the lens of the general plan as though it's prescriptive right so it's got to be applied in consideration of the context of of you know all of the other adjacencies and and the stakeholders and and I guess frankly the Investments that have been made um so I just want to be clear that it's it's a guiding principle yes but it's to be applied to the situation not a mandate we hear so often that it's a mandate the general plan is in place and we're supposed to drive more residences into holes in the map and that's just not always the case correct so I guess maybe a couple things I can add to that hopefully not the labor Point too much by by Statute in order to approve a resoning you need to find that is consistent with the plan so that is one of the founding reasons here why we review the general plan if what's been requested you believe is not consistent with the general plan then you really shouldn't couldn't recommend approval um the previous General plan was much more prescriptive by showing specific land use types and densities so the previous General plan showed this at multi-resident 4 to 10 units breaker so to actually do this resoning they would have also had to do a general plan Amendment under the old plan to reduce that density so it' be consistent with what was being proposed we went from being that prescriptive to something that gives more flexibility to the commission and Council to really take into consideration what's going on in the area as part of making that recommendation makes it harder in some ways but gives that an opportunity for really thinking about an area and what's important rather than just to color on a map um changing gears a little bit here has Town staff seen any sidings or side adaptations of structures on the parcels yet to see how all these relationships work uh chair It's seems like they showed us the sketch one time I have that in my mind but I look back through the documents that were submitted I I don't have one and so either I'm thinking of something else or they just showed it to us and and didn't submit it okay commission John I um I think the first thing that that caught my eye is in the staff recommendation it's a proposed slight reduction when it's a 45 40% reduction in size I don't consider that slight is that just a type Oak is that going from 18 to 10 is more than slight chair uh Vice chair without going back to seeing where I put that in as I recall what I was thinking was in terms of the overall uh density of the area Okay rather than the specific Lots but it says in lot in reduction in lot size so I I think that's a little bit disingenuous I'll accept the fact that it was maybe an improper word or an incorrect word at that point in time but the sentiment that I got was that's dog on near a 50% reduction which I don't consider slight um I have the same concerns without seeing any elevations without seeing what the actual orientation is we heard what the applicant said about orientation of the homes and so on but they could just as easily turn the the houses north and south east west whichever way they wanted to so i' I'd like to see some elevations before I would support this and the last thing ising it doesn't matter I understand that but still and the last thing is I'd really like to help our Town Council Along by doing what they profess to do which is listen to the public and I haven't heard one person other than the applicant be in support of this and if the Town Council truly believes what they say which is we listen to the public then they'll go along with denying this and if they don't then their words are for not thank you commissioner any other discussion one second anything else guys um well just a comment I know you you mentioned that it is a variety of housing um but I think given the location how it's more on um are we talking is this Indigo I forgot what the re Road was yes it's more uh I kind of see it encroaching a little bit because the other properties you kind of enter from other areas um so I understand what the what the uh goal is here but I can also see how it's it is not compatible with the residents that are on Indigo given that it kind of seems like we're encroaching on those properties a little bit so I can see that and when we talk about you know this is very difficult because we've had many different discussions like this we talk about um zoning is a promise I think about that more so when we're talking about Residential Properties because somebody bought their property and they expect that the land around it would stay the same uh if it's commercial it's a little bit different we have flexibility for mixed use housing around there um but I definitely hear what the neighbors are saying here when they knew this was two lots I would be concerned looking at splitting this into four um but I also wonder if there's like I mentioned earlier any um was there any um discussion on maybe splitting it into three I I think the two that are on the front of indigo would be sufficient and if there is any room to maybe fit one in the back there maybe that would be a compromise but I think four is a little bit against the the plan for that area Mr Miller Do you have a comment's chairman Vice chairman you both asked a question about why these properties have set vacant for so long it's because the owners of the Indigo or town sorry King tree condos went in together and purchased this property and they've held it back from the market especially when we subdivided it into four they immediately knew with the current zoning they could go to 30 feet blocking their views so they P four families got together purchased those lots it wasn't until recently that they passed away and moved on that these Lots came to the open market an investor bought it a few years ago it's sat bacon since then and now we've got the har family moving in um and to the question I think one of the Commissioners was talking about with the number of people that are impacted here because the density is high we're talking about several hundred people that are involved in um this particular lot being overdeveloped and so uh that's what we wanted to call it as well so thank you Rick which can you clarify you at that property right above right North to the first one yes okay all right Commissioners any final [Music] discussion yeah I guess yeah is a straightforward zoning case and we're the zoning commission uh I believe that the use transition from the R3 high density residential to the low density res residentials entirely appropriate and um I don't like the flags I don't like the the I I would like to hear the developer decide to have a larger sidey yard to the north but I'm inclined to support the development commissioner Cory you're sure yeah okay um I don't often go against commissioner kovic um I'm I'm really kind of torn on this one um Mr har I know you do a very nice product I've seen um several of them here in town um I do completely concur with commissioner kovic that in as zoning principles go um it's an appropriate step up or step down there's no dispute there uh the difference here is the citizen participation and the adjacent stakeholders I mean normally we see a ratio of for or against or um those that are uh rather agnostic and in this case we're um I've got all the tick boxes in the in the against category I think the reason we're here is the price point that the current investor wants to to get out of their parcels and I don't see that as a reason to change the rule book uh given the adjacency so if this was first in uh and the rest of the Lots were vacant or still with MCO that's a different story but this is last in um and I don't think that we're obliged to change the rule book to um to make that peroral work in this case um absolutely appreciate iate the conversation between residents and developer and town staff we get a lot of these that are not amicable um and I think uh from what we've observed tonight I I I think you guys have um held the bar pretty high um in that regard so very appreciative of that um but in this in in this particular case you know when we consider the intent of the plan you know the change that's related to the ask and the adjacent stakeholders uh I'm going to be a recommendation to decline on this but I'll withhold a motion for commissioner Watts I move to deny the application for reone and I don't have the details there but summary version you don't have I can scroll up and get them yeah put them in the motion hang on I move to deny the rezoning of 11044 and 111052 North Indigo located on the west side of Indigo Drive North of King Street from r118 to R1 110 to allow for the construction of single family homes Commissioners a second to commissioner wat's motion yeah I'll I'll I'll second that as well commissioner pause second commissioner Watts has made a motion to forward a recommendation to the Town Council of denial of the rezone uh on the basis of context discussed here tonight commissioner depa has seconded that motion Paul let's go to a roll call commissioner Corey I commissioner depa nay you just seconded it oh I'm sorry I meant no not to change the zone so a double negative paa he means I should we you want to back let's start over that's right all right commissioner Corey I commissioner depa I commissioner kovic nay Vice chair Watts I chair gray I 51 thank you Paula all right we are going to backtrack to agenda item five consideration and possible action in regard to the annual report and implementation of the Fountain Hill General plan 2020 farad let's give the room a couple minutes it's 41 all right well Paul Paul let's let's let's just do a quick five minute recess let everything clear out e e e ready Mr chairman yes sir should I wait do you want me to do it I've never done it ever I'm used to it not not my DNA all right uh Mr chairman members of the commission as you recall I came before you with uh the U annual report um highlighting the progress we made in implementing the general plan in the calendar year 2023 uh I highlighted a few um um I guess progress as far as the implementation's concerned uh at the conclusion of that meeting uh I was asked to uh revise and resubmit um following some corrections to some uh typos and also uh removing some references to the environmental plan uh particularly the reference to uh bio design actually any reference to the environmental plan was removed uh altogether um and I have also added some page numbers and there were some comments made by the public uh as well and uh I've tried to reflect those in this revision so C can I ask you while you're on the uh word biophilic did it did it actually prove out that the council had taken action to remove that from the plan uh Mr chairman uh members of the commission uh I believe staff is still seeking some clarification with council members um that has been those discussions have been taking place okay outside my realm for the time being I was just curious I mean I right the letters in the word uh are a little out of context uh um and I just a solution to that is to tie it down to the American Institute of Architects definition of biophilic if if that continues the nth circus version so uh yeah if you have any more questions uh I welcome them um I just wanted to ask you just for the for sport of it really um we talked a little bit about the well a couple things um so look at my highlights here we talked a little bit about the um State trust land and is that is that really a viable aspiration or study uh for the town I I don't suppose in a month we've learned anything from state land department but any anything new on that contextually uh Mr chairman I don't I don't have anything new on that um and then we talked a little bit about the on page five let's call it paragraph one two three four paragraph five um the visitor analytics software under Economic Development I'm just curious I as I have no no real feedback on that as the bullet point the report if it's accurate but um and maybe I should just table this for later but I I think it'd be interesting to understand that a little bit just um you know just contextual understanding what what is the software and what do we actually get from it not that it relates to zoning but that's interesting to me um and then me find my last uh just one one Clarity in page 11 of 11 uh middle of the page uh mid-range and long range goals uh under goal work with asld I didn't see Arizona state land department and then alsd uh identified earlier in the report maybe I maybe I walked past it but might just spell that out um okay I I don't think most are going going to know what that is and I missed my other yeah Mr chairman that so that was go was taking verbatim from the general plan but I could in Brackets it just it took me a second to to alsd what's alsd right I have to find I've got one more sorry far no no problem page five of 11 paragraph three um and again I nothing wrong with it uh as as a component of the report but something I'd like to understand is it says 2023 calendar year uh following parking review uh staff entered a contract with a consultant um is that's after the uh parking table adjustments that we we I think we did that in early 23 right is that is this a new is this layered on top of that right this this follows that Mr chairman and this is particularly um focused on the downtown area um the parking the adjustments that you're talking about that were approved last year earlier last year um those are townwide and and being an outside consultant is is that contract that's with the planning department or is that with uh Mr chairman that's with the public works department public works department so it's not with the town attorney then not okay not not having seen the contract uh uh I can't say for sure but I know this is a joint effort between the public works department and the uh and the consultant I was just curious contextually what would be the difference in that consultant study and the other studies we've been talking about late so um I'll you commissioner yes all right far just the one thing that stood out to me was in the uh immediate goals was the the uh staff plans to kick off a almost like project management kind of work for all the capital Improvement projects so you were saying here the here it is the plan monitoring system coordinating with capital Improvement projects no so it almost looks like uh there's not a whole lot of organization around um what's being done and what needs to be done and you said there were some issues during covid so that's all out is so what's the status of that have they figured out some sort of mechanism for tracking Mr chairman Commissioners uh mentioned somewhere in this report that we're going to be uh forming an ad hoc group yeah uh between uh mostly uh planning and and Public Works to kind of coordinate and uh jointly discuss the uh Capital Improvement program and which policies in the general plan those aim to implement when you say planning is it the planning department that you wouldn't be engaging us or it would be the well it would be the planning division which is really myself and uh um and perhaps John but we're within the development services division yeah or de development services dep Department got it okay so that hasn't kicked off but that is going to be a group that starts to evaluate that that is we still intend to get that going this summer okay yeah it sounds like that would be a good idea to kind of get a get a grasp on planning all those activities and organizing them appropriately okay thank you commissioner Watts I think the first comment is the last couple pages when you Consolidated um the things that were scattered in in the original presentation did a nice job of summarizing them so the topics that I'm scrambling to try and tell you exactly which ones but it's where you've got short-term goals and then you've listed each of the goals and they were kind of scattered in the original and now you've Consolidated them so that makes it much easier to read uh I was curious about in the pump house project on page four the word local is gone yes I thought the original approval was for local artists only did we change that Mr chairman um commissioner Watts uh I I cannot say for sure I've been again that's another um uh I guess dialogue outside my realm it's uh between the community services department um and perhaps uh whichever artist they they're soliciting to for their work but I I have not been involved with um the uh The Pump House art project and either directly or indirectly but my point was that if it was originally approved for local artists we don't really have the ability to change local to anybody and that's what this document is now saying no you don't agree I well I get your point but this document isn't changing anything it's merely 60,000 foot reporting out on on uh delivery of the general plan so if you want to put the clarification and put it in but it's not it's nothing in this changes the original plan correct okay no I agree with that so this is kind of a summary of where we're at today so shouldn't we include what the original verbiage was which included local or or go the other way and say it's been expanded out that's fine too because part of the this is conditioned upon these being amendments and if it's an amendment if if it's deleted then it should be noted as an amendment okay ored Amendment or recommended Amendment um and chairman gray stole my the results viewable for the uh visitor analysis so I'd still like to see that still like to see the safe design and and I think one of the notes that on page five I pretty I'm pretty much sure I made a comment about including the Indian Community because they are part and parcel of the garden center yes and we don't have that is there a reason we don't have it included are they not uh Mr chairman uh uh commissioner Watts yeah I do remember you making that that comment although it seemed like that comment that as you had written in your in your red line was out of place so what I did was the reference where I did make reference to merely tribal communities I believe it what let me find that bullet here uh page five um last bullet where I talk about the grants uh that was the only place where I mentioned uh in the original report I had mentioned um the tribal communities and in this case here uh as you can see here I actually mentioned them by their proper names Fort McDow Yavapai Nation as well as the Salt River Pima Maricopa India community right yeah I see that there I I didn't know if there's any NE necessity to give them recognition in relation to the community garden though um I know we've got some planted some beds up there that and I don't remember exactly how many kids are working those garden beds okay I you know what I maybe I didn't find that reference to the uh um with the tribal Comm and the and their involvement with the community garden yeah because I I think it's good that we've got the community the the tribes mentioned in the grants but that's positive but that recognition in the community gardens as well I think if we can okay I I see the point that you're trying to make now I did not know they were involved now okay yeah I see um on page seven this is this is kind of out of context I'll I'll admit that the natural resources and the fourth fourth bullet point where we require re restoration of disturbed areas with native plants is that only applicable to construction or is that anytime anywhere is there another building town code that requires it if somebody lets their Landscaping get out of hand uh where it's not complete yeah Mr chairman Commissioners um so this this reference is made particularly for residential projects projects that are on um that are what we would classify hillsides where the slopes are greater than 20% or more now there may be some cases so each Hillside lot has a disturbance limit right depending on size and and and slope and so forth so in cases where they do need to exceed that for example to Pro provide for example like a construction corridor um around the property or if there's like a slight uh disturbance outside the distributable boundary those areas need to be um receded uh with Native vegetation prior to inspection okay I think that answers it it's we we've got some expansion on it because of fire requirements now but that that's a different topic different day so and then the last thing is the project management CH chart as well as the capital Improvement projects is there something in the works to do something like a project chart or a Gant chart to show what the processes are going on and where they're at in their whole scope right Mr chairman I believe uh Commissioners I I believe that there will be uh I'm sure there will be a visual representation of all this um you know following our uh our ad hoc meetings between Public Works and myself that'll be next week thank you yeah it it'll certainly be there for uh when I come to you about this time next year for the 2024 calendar year thank you farad I want to clarify for commissioner Watts he indicated that I stole words from him I just want to point out I was actually faster to my mic than he was commissioner Cory commissioner Watts they'll add you to their jera board you can see all the activity um one thing I noticed you mentioned the pump house project and I was just going back to reading this I don't know if you you said local and I don't see local in here and I know that's come up in the past but as far as I know that pump house artwork project was not meant to be local it was going to change year-over-year to be different installations and I think the last one was a special Niche um portrait that anybody could contribute to um so and I think that's good because actually I heard that somebody traveled into town who was one of the artists so there's a benefit in having that not be local is that uh it could attract people to come to Fountain Hills they could participate in this thing and then oh this town of Fountain Hills is going to share my art I'm going to go visit and see what it's all about and I think one artist did that so I think it does change every year and it may come back to being local again with maybe ducks in the pond or something um but I think it is supposed to be Broad and then the second thing I noticed we saying that we installed Chargers I use them uh the two here at the community center are broken the handles are broken in order to use them you have to get like a penny in there and try to flick it up so you can plug it into your car dangerous yeah yeah well you just got to or a fingernail or something you have to try to pick up the piece of plastic that's broken so that it charges I don't know about the ones of the fountain but I Ed the ones here and uh they've been broken for a while we'll tell our facilities manager all right and they're slow uh takes a long time to charge anything so I don't know if we put that in the plan for uh if we include more in the future maybe we can up that power level a little bit super no guess but other than that you know who shares your view on Chargers who um the councilman Sharon no um no no Allan Allan all right yeah well good for him so I'm just clear Clayton is um commissioner Cory sorry do you were you saying that the in the original verbiage about the pump house it did not have local in it I don't know where the original one is published okay so I and so I don't disagree I just was seeking Clarity because I think it should be expanded but if the original said local artist then we should stay with that and if not we should amend it and just make sure we're clear so if it's reference somewhere else yeah I mean if it's referenced somewhere else and it's just it's just something we left out that I'm fine with that sure U because I think it really comes out nice and I I guess spent a lot of time there looking at some of those the talent of those photographers and artists yes okay I agree yeah I wasn't sure what you were saying there but yeah no I just want the word either note note that it's in or note that it's out one or the other so what if Bop art uh that would be different environmentally engag in art environmentally engaging biophilic I'll leave it at that I think um commissioner Cory and I can figure this out all right uh Paula speaker cards yes chair there's two speaker cards the first speaker is Larry Myers and the second speaker is Lori troller I'm want to go back to Farmers and butchers um well I'm going I'm going I'm going there I'm gonna try I don't know I never did figure that one out um anyway in general the general plan since I've seen them all it's a really nice document written by generally the spa people who are populated by the environmental social and economic Justice sustainable crowd always have been probably always will be they write this stuff down for Fountain Hills then nobody reads it and then they vote on it and then everybody when it's convenient leans on the general plan when they want something like King tree and indigo or the parking that we waved for the Target Center apartments that seems to be part of the general plan and we redid it but it didn't fit down there so we just sort of looked other way on that one so the general plan generally is generally useless to me who's lived here for 42 years because the people left to their own devices would probably come up with something and by the way uh if you go back and check the um motion biophilic was removed amended and removed and voted on four to3 to remove the word bi philic I don't give a crap what their discussions are now because I'm sure they're discussing how to put it back in in private in secret and non-transparent so with regard to this General plan review I mean it's just like all the other General Plan reviews when it fits we lean on it and when it doesn't we look the other way um I wish I could stand up here just once and say something positive but if you look up at the adero canyon Mountainside strip mine that's taking place courtesy of arttus and a few others from back then uh vegetation being put back in I haven't seen any also the medical center who completely cut the hillside out out and was supposed to put 100 trees in haven't seen a single tree it's part of a plan right John it's not there there's two instances where the general plan says to do something and we didn't feel like doing it so we didn't so our discussion of This falls on deaf ears to me who has probably stood up here a million times every every time it comes around I say the same thing and the same thing happens so I appreciate you just listening to me someday I'm going to step up here I'm gonna say something positive thanks chair commission Lorie troller resident I'm gonna kind of go against what Larry said um I'm G to put a little more P importance on this document um and my my angle right now is the verbiage of it so uh the verbage of our previous General plan um has been casual and not restrictive as to let our development go where it's going to go with the original intent of the community years ago so the tone of the document is really important and it it's part of our permanent record and the council can and will refer back to this and in EM any embellishments we make here um but the tone can lead to us saying 5 years from now how do we get to this point and um I'm very concerned about that it's it's a big issue with me it's a big issue with a lot of people so um whenever anything wonderful is built people want to be a part of it naturally but they want to make their changes to it and again kind of comes around around to how do we get to this point so um the fact that this was a retirement Town 30 years ago is the very thing that preserved it isn't that ironic the preservation being one of the goals is is that that's what's in this General plan it's on page three that's our goal is to preserve it we keep trying to change it so the original town community doesn't want public showers for the homeless and that's just an example of how did we get there when it happens so the verbiage of this entire document it's it's open as it always was but I think it's time to tighten it up a little bit so at the beginning of the general plan it talks about the preservation of neighborhoods and in at least two years the preservation of neighborhoods in this town was fought by us it was was fought too thin nail to keep sober homes residential detox overpopulated housing sex trafficking and now the invasion of Utility Equipment over or off or away from our properties and that's the residents we don't have to go by this General plan the com the council does and when that when this document is open that leaves us fighting for all this stuff we're getting a little tired but we'll stay here so that's my point on page 10 this reads with the changing social economic and environmental factors is worthwhile to review the specifications to determine if they meet the town's current needs that's this open that's this open feeling I'm talking about we don't want this we don't want to lay ourselves open like this there's another on page three where you know what I've got I've got the last month's uh thing so it might not be page three um it's right underneath thriving neighborhoods it it talks about hey we're we're here to preserve the neighborhoods but then the very next paragraph is to accommodate a variety of housing types it's not specified the council goes wild with it they start putting and voting in high density housing I just think that verbiage of this document is really important the tone of it and it's our permanent record that's my point Thank you thank you L farud just just for my understanding and Clarity so that the reference that Lori made there on page 10 is is the top the first of the three goals there it's commission a cost benefit study to identify the gap between actual subdivision regulations uh infrastructure specification and determine the cost of meeting such specifications that and the next the paragraph under it those are lifted straight out of the general plan today correct uh yes okay so Lori I think your your position on on the inclusion in this I think when you go to council you're really saying hey I I I think we ought to propose amendments to the general plan because this is all verbatim language that's in the published General plan today and and this report is recommending no amendments today and what you're suggesting is hey we need to tighten it up and and really ought to consider a few amendments so all right thanks yeah uh farad I just have one last thing Lori said a word that that triggered me it was naturally I don't know what context she used it in but it reminded me we have in addition to the new logo we have that new branding that I didn't see in here naturally Fountain Hills naturally Innovative naturally there's a whole like theme around those and in fact it's on the homepage of our uh Town's website right now too so maybe we could add that in as a another achievement yeah Mr chairman commissioner Cory I did make a reference here to uh our rebranding but I can get into the logo yeah and I don't know what they call it but it's right there naturally Fountain Hills it's the new is what you call it the new slogan or something maybe okay thank you that all right Commissioners uh motion the options for a motion are simply you're continue well there's no Nay Nay Nay is not an option so it's either continue for modifications or a motion to recommend uh we forward this to council for their review inclusive of tonight's conversation the heck was that commissioner kov do we need one more look at it after the Amendments that were made tonight we were advised by the vice mayor not to let uh Perfection get in the way of progress so I'll let whoever makes a motion make that determination I think that you've done a great job um taking our feedback and making updates and I think we just discuss some minor stuff tonight so I think it'd be appropriate to motion to move that forward I agree how many changes did you count that we or suggestions that we made that you've got to incorporate half a dozen you mean prior to today no tonight tonight you got most of them already so how many say like five or six five or six additional I can go back and look at the and they're just tweaks too I mean that's really what they are they're not significant so yeah i' i' I'd let them roll personally but no I agree I second the motion okay uh all in favor I SM 5 Z thank you Paula all right uh typical combo of agenda item seven and 8 commission discussion request for research to staff uh slightly out of turn John but we didn't get the chance to uh speak to M to commissioner Dempster before uh she resigned the commission uh some of us worked with uh Susan a long time I was trying to count how long I think I had six years with her Clayton you're pretty close to the same um really going to miss uh commissioner Dempster's input here she rounded us out uh on a lot of topics and was very very grounded in her positions and research so um appreciate her time here and wish her all the best in her in her next Ventures um I I'll second that me too do we have any candidates at this point it's probably not appropriate to ask you but I'm going to anyway well it's appropriate yes there candidate and we're currently setting up interviews with the Town Council subcommittee how how many I believe there are four are they properly trained in John Deer equipment or or how to side dress cattle we will keep you posted okay why John Deere it's the only big green Harvester that I know you're such a sucker for marketing uh okay so we think they'll be in place possibly by the July venue we meeting in July you that's the hope all right what's the summer schedule uh summer schedule for us is July what 10th is 8th July July yes we have to we have to meet on chapter 17 uh John might as well give commission an update on the council's feedback on that so we can prep accordingly for the July session yes uh chairman in case anybody's not aware the Town Council at their meeting last week considered the uh topics of uh release of the Campanelli uh draft ordinance uh chose not to do that and also consider the topic of uh combining town code chapter 16 article 162 in with your review of chapter 177 of the zoning ordinance and chose not to do that so the commission is focused on just looking that and recommending potential amendments uh to chapter 17 at your May meeting the work on that was continue to your July meeting and so that's what will be on that agenda so and inappropriate probably to continue this but from recollection I have to look back at our meeting minutes but I we talked a little bit on the table was can we look at 16 U so if their denial was on the basis of comboing it I get it but I think we were we had stumbled on the idea that they were highly complimentary to each other if we're going to talk about Towers let's talk about towers and placement throughout um I'll just ask is there any chance of of going back for a second opinion or is it all in and all done uh chairman the uh commission or the council was presented with four options one was uh to basically keep things going as they are just uh review chapter 17 and that's it one was to allow you to give some thought and comment on anything that might ought to change in 162 why you working on 17 three was a little bit more uh aggressive than that in terms of specifically looking at and offering suggestions on uh the small sale Wireless and four was a total accommodation and they uh chose not to do anything I can't remember how they were actually worded the motion but it's I recall it was just focus on 17 and that's the direction that you have okay so that'll be taken up at the July 8th meeting then correct uh everybody present for that meeting yeah August we're definitely out okay okay anything else Commissioners anything else John okay let's adjourn I'm not Gathering