Fountain Hills Council Approves Downtown Overlay with 35-Unit Cap, Grants ParkPlace Permit Reprieve as Development Timeline Tensions Persist

I'd like to call this meeting to order. And would you please rise for the pledge of allegiance of the stands one nation with liberty and justice for all. And if you choose, please remain standing because our invocation tonight will be given by Harold Javed from uh Bajias in Fountain Hills. Oh my God, oh my God, verily I invoke thee and supplicate before thy threshold, asking thee that all thy mercies may descend upon these souls. Specialize them for thy favor and thy truth.

Oh Lord, unite and bind together the hearts. Join in accord all the souls and accilerate the spirits through the signs of thy sanctity and oneness. Oh Lord, make these faces radiant through the light of thy oneness. Strengthen the loins of thy servants in the service of thy kingdom. Oh Lord, thou possessor of infinite mercy.

Oh Lord of forgiveness and pardon, forgive our sins, pardon our shortcomings, and cause us to turn to the kingdom of thy clemency, invoking the kingdom of might and power, humble at thy shrine, and submissive before the glory of thine evidences. Oh Lord God, make us as waves of the sea, as flowers of the garden, united, agreed through the bounties of thy love.

Oh Lord, dilate the breast through the signs of thy oneness, and make all mankind as stars shining from the same height of glory, as perfect fruits growing upon thy tree of life. Verily thou art the Almighty, the self-subsistent, the giver, the forgiving, the pardoner, the omnisient, the one creator. Thank you. Town clerk, would you please take roll call? Mayor Fidell, present. Vice Mayor Skilicorn, here. Council member Earl here. Council member Calivianis here. Council member Watts here.

Council member Larby here. Council member McMahon here. Mayor, you have a quorum. Thank you. And there's been one slight change. Now our statement of participation is on the screen there. So we will no longer be reading that. So everybody can see that on the screen. And now we'll start with our reports by mayor council members and town manager Rachel. Uh thank you mayor. Everybody welcome back. It's been a very long busy summer but we're here back again.

Um I'm not going to take much time for a report other than it has been a very active summer. Um we've taken on a number of projects. Um putting to bed the uh previous budget, kicking off the new budget, getting a a start on our different CIPs. Um the summer has been very very busy, so we are um hitting the ground rolling and ready to resume our council meetings. Thank you, Councilwoman Earl. Yes. I just wanted to say it was a nice little break.

Although I know I do appreciate Rachel answering my phone calls on him every week many times. She's very available. I do also want to thank Director Wely for his street staff department and staff that did the improvements in the driveway at the Shay and um Four Peaks Plaza. They thank you very much also that you quickly um took care of that street light that was hanging um and on Shay within a couple hours you guys I called in that there was a light hanging that it was fixed really fast.

So I appreciate that. I also want to thank our community relations director, Mike Pelton, for doing an excellent job. And it was nice seeing him when I was at the um League of Arizona Cities and Towns conference, and it was nice spending time with other council members there as well. Thank you, Councilwoman. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good evening, everybody. Um thank you for coming as always. Um live streaming on Cox YouTube um and here of course in person.

Um, engaged citizenship is essential for good governance. Participation is critical critical to good community, good governance, and people getting along. So, thanks for all for coming. Um, yeah, there's so many things that we did over the summer. I'm just going to keep it real brief for tonight, but uh, yeah, we I attended the League of Arizona Cities and Towns conference. This was the third year in a row.

And, uh, it is just a wonderful experience to meet with the mayors, the council people, state reps, state senators. um managers and the staffs of so many towns around Arizona and we learn, we ask questions, we ask them how do you do this, how do you do that? It's um just a wealth of information and and it's so good for uh our council, most of which went there and we we all um got a chance to participate in something very worthy.

Um my other highlight of the summer was a couple weeks ago on their opening day for the inspiration academy. I got to address the uh middle school and high schoolers. Um they asked me to talk about my journey and and on the council and in politics. Um it was just wonderful being with these children. They're optimistic, brighteyed, eager to learn. Um I was scheduled to be there at half an hour and I'm sometimes long-winded, but they were asking so many questions.

was over an hour long and they were asking really great questions about how to get involved and what what do we do and how did you do it and so you know all I can say is um as we get older and and set off to retirement we have a really good bench in our high schools and our schools. Um lastly I'd like to talk to everybody about um an event that's going to be happening in Tempe. It's the Tempe Town Lakes 911 Healing Fields Freedom Concert. Um it's it's a wonderful thing.

I used to do that with the United States Coast Scout Auxiliary Band and this year I'll be playing with the Desert Valley Winds Band. Um for those who want to be a part of it, um they will have the standup flag ceremony with 3,000 flags will be displayed. That'll be 911 itself and they're looking for volunteers. So if you want to volunteer to put up flags, they're looking for that. The Freedom Concert will be um Saturday, September 13th.

The program is from 6:30 to 8:30 and it's just filled with um patriotic music, speeches, veterans speaking and it's it's something that if you haven't done before, you should try to be there. The media will be there, radio stations. It's it's huge and it's it's a remembrance of those who fell on that day. We should never forget. And so that's my report. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Councilman Watts, I'll re reiterate the same thing.

It was a nice break just to get away, but uh I'll also support what Rachel has to say. It never ends. And so we all got tasked during the course of that event. Attended the league uh league of cities and towns. Very informative, very insightful as to the number of people we met and some of the opportunities we were able to explore and also had a ride along with MCSO which I found very insightful. That's it. Thank you, Councilman Skill. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

And actually, I want to do a shout out to you. Uh, so a few days ago, there was one of the tabloid uh newspapers uh kind of defamed Fountain Hills with a with an image, you know, basically insinuating that there that our town was unsafe and there was crime here. And lo and behold, they changed that article and I was told that was on behest of your call. So, thank you for sticking up for Fountain Hills and thank you for um you know getting that tabloid paper to change uh that photo.

I appreciate it. And to be accurate, it's actually the town staff that took care of that. So, we appreciate the town staff, but we were all So, thank thank you staff. All all alerted. Yeah, councilwoman. Thank you. Good evening, everybody. Thank you for coming tonight. I hope all of you had a great summer. Like everybody said, so far it has been an awesome summer break.

Even though many of us were pretty busy, I did attend a few board meetings and committee meetings and I was also able to attend the Arizona League of Cities and Towns um annual conference and it was really amazing. It is always nice to see our colleagues and learn about what other towns and cities are doing throughout the state and attend some of their very very informative workshops that are on point with a lot of things that we will be dealing with in the future here.

So, um that's about all I have to say. Thank you. Thank you, Councilwoman. Thank you, Mayor. Like uh many others up here, I was at the LACT conference and it was a very informative time. I really enjoyed getting to have this was my favorite part, getting to have lunch with our mayor's youth council. They are so involved and just they want to know everything about town council.

It is really exciting to see the youth of our town be excited about town council because you don't see that as something that's a pull for kids, right? So, it was very wonderful. Um, besides that, over the summer, like everyone else, I took meetings. It was a busy summer, and we're glad to be back. Thank you.

And like the rest of you, I attended the League of Cities and Towns, and I have to say that um what I learned was a lot of towns have the same issues and they're trying to deal with the same things that we are here in Fountain Hills. from short-term rentals to road work to uh securing their towns with uh police work and that kind of thing. So, we're not alone. We have some of the same issues um some of the same challenges as other towns do.

Um Council Member Watts and I actually uh had some good connections with uh a vendor that does financing. So, we're exploring some options that might be able to help our town down the road. So that was it was really a uh a good session and uh we met a lot of good contacts there. We also had a lot of capital projects that were done or started uh this summer. A lot of road work was completed, sidewalk infill and other things around the town.

Work continues up at uh the Golden Eagle drainage project and I think we'll hear something about that tonight as well. Um but we've got a lot of stuff going on, a lot of positive things happening in this town. So, we're we're fortunate that we have a good staff that stays on top of all these things for us. Um, we also got contact I got contacted by some of the uh top brass at Sprouts and we had a very good conversation and meeting with uh with those people.

They're going to be very involved with our town. They wanted to know all the events that we do uh different charitable options and that kind of thing too. So, they're going to come in here and they're going to really be a part of our community. So, we're really looking forward to that. So, it's not going to just be a grocery store. they're going to be really involved with what we do in this town.

So, that was really a good meeting and uh we learned a lot about them and they learned a lot about us as well. So, um we're happy that that uh that that meeting came to play. Um one last thing I'll mention is that the next coffee with the mayor is going to be Wednesday, September 17th at 9:00 at the New Euro Pizza. If you're in town, you have questions, comments, come on out. It's pretty much a friendly conversation and good questions and we give updates on what's going on around our town.

So, every resident is is invited to that. And with that, that's the end of our our report. So, thank you. So, now we'll move on to um probably one of the the the greatest things that um that we can do, and that's the mayor's citizens award. This award is not something that we give out all the time. We give it out when there's a special accomplishment to deserving residents in our town. So tonight I'm I'm pleased to um read a little uh paragraph.

I'm presenting this award tonight to Conlin and Julie Jones with gratitude and recognition for extraordinary community service. In the face of overwhelming challenges, true character is revealed and in this case, generosity, compassion, and the spirit of community shone brightly. This mayor's citizens award is presented to Conlin Jones and Julie Jones in heartfelt recognition of their selfless act of kindness toward fellow Fountain Hills residents during a time of great personal hardship.

Upon learning of a local couple's ongoing battle with cancer and the financial strain of medical treatments, Connellan and Julie stepped in to provide a much needed install of air conditioning system entirely free of charge for these residents. This extraordinary gesture was offered not for praise or publicity, but purely out of care, empathy, and a deep commitment to to the values of their company. That's what makes Fountain Hills a community. This is not how we should be. It's how we are.

This community gives a lot back to a lot of people. We have a lot of volunteers and great volunteers and great citizens in this town. So, with that, I'd like to have you come up, both of you, receive this award and maybe say a couple things. [Applause] Thank you. So, since I'm the talker of the family, I'll start first. Um, we are truly honored and humbled to receive this award. Um I have been a resident of this community for 24 years and my um late husband Mike Jones was probably close to 30.

Um he loved we both loved this community and it really is an honor to serve the people in this community because it all starts with us together. You know that one small ripple effect makes a difference for everyone. So, I I'm really at a loss of words when I found out that we were receiving this award. Um I know my husband is looking down on us and he is so proud of everything that um we continue to do with this with this company.

Um believe it or not, he's been gone now 16 months and um we just keep moving forward like he would have wanted us to move forward. So, thank you again for this honor. Hi, my name's Conlin Jones. I just want to tell you guys that this is a lovely community. Uh we're going to stick around here to try to help whoever we can out. If you're in need, always give us a call.

Uh we can't do it without my great staff that's able to actually stay here, show up, do what needs to get done, do it the right way, and as well other members of our community are always here watching each other's back who really keep the gears turning for everybody to be able to help each other out. And that's what we have to do. Thank you. [Applause] Okay, now we'll move on to some presentations. Uh, Rachel, actually, mayor, I think we have one more proclamation to observe. You're right.

I'm sorry. We have a proclamation, and that will be um, Councilwoman Hannah Toth. Our proclamation is to declare this month ovarian cancer awareness month. Whereas ovarian cancer is the fifth leading cause of cancer related death among women with no reliable early detection test and most cases diagnosed at late stages.

The town of Fountain Hills joins survivors, families, caregivers, and health care professionals in raising awareness, promoting education, and fostering hope for earlier diagnosis, improved treatments, and ultimately a cure. Now, therefore, September 2025 is proclaimed ovarian cancer awareness month in the town of Fountain Hills, Arizona.

The Great Fountain will be lit teal and all residents are encouraged to participate in awareness activities, wear teal, and engage in conversations that help save lives and support those affected. Our um do we have someone here? Yes, there you are in teal. I love it. I tried. I got my I got my water bottle. That's all I had. [Applause] Okay, now we'll move on to presentations. Rachel, that's right. Yes. Um, first up tonight we have Director Justin Welding.

He's going to be doing a review of our public works um and the accomplishments through the FY25 budget year. Director looks like he's still looking for his presentation. So, in the meantime, I'm going to highlight how much work our public works crew does. Um they're often sort of our unsung heroes. They're out there. I'll give you the example of this morning um cleaning up from our storm last night. Um I had rain in my corner of town.

I know other people did not, but we had quite a bit of rain, quite a bit of wind, um a lot of downed limbs, um things like that. So, they're the guys that make sure their streets are picked up and ready to go. They're the um when we have reports, they respond immediately. Um I know Mayor, you and I have had some exchanges about things. So, our public works staff do quite a bit um sort of off the radar, so we appreciate that. Justin, I'm trying to buy you time here. There we go.

Good evening and welcome back from the short summer break. We hope everybody had an opportunity to enjoy themselves and get around and see a few things. While that was uh happening, we continued to work away at um the items that are listed in our budgets and primarily capital projects. I'm um going to give a brief opening statement and then I'm going to move through the slides in the interest of tonight's um large agenda.

Please note, while you see me up here on a regular basis talking about capital projects and maintenance and improvements to this community, none of it would be possible without the residents, the elected body, management, and the town staff that support all of these endeavors and help them to come to fruition. So, if you see anything in particular as I'm moving through here that you would like to discuss, please let me know. We'll stop and spend a few moments on that.

Again, this is our capital projects. Um, for those of you not familiar, this um the fiscal year was 25, which started on July 1st, 2024, and ended on June 30th, 2025. This is a relatively large one. This was a grant project to infill sidewalks on Sarro from Messenger andor Colony all the way to Fountain Hills Boulevard and also fill the gaps on the north side of Palisades between Sawro and Fountain Hills Boulevard. Uh you can see there some of the numbers.

If you have any questions about those as we move forward, just let me know. This is a multi-year project. Uh this is sidewalk infill which is separate from the grant project and gap elimination. For this one, we completed a section in the very beginning of last fiscal year up on Eagle Mountain and then we started uh the project on bashes during last fiscal year and finished the last little bit this month.

For those of you that have not had an opportunity, please take one and take a look at the gap elimination on La Montana between the Avenue of the Fountains and Palisades. quite beneficial and already being used. This is another multi-year project for this year in anticipation of the Maricopa County Department of Transportation's rehabilitation project for McDow Mountain Road from Milepost 2 to Forest Road. We came in and did our portion of the guardrail.

It was below the minimum height and would have left an unusual tangent in that location. We took advantage of the opportunity and funding from the RAN council, started it in 2025, and did the last little piece of it, um, a few thousand dollars worth in 2026. These ones right here have been generating a considerable amount of discussion within the town. This was a capital project move approved by the mayor and council uh, through the citizen advisory um, committee some time back.

These are just a few of the locations that were completed last year. We continue to work forward and mark additional locations. The majority of the comments have been positive. The exception is one wellrespected engineer that is retired that stated as a result of all of these, he now has to slow down and pay attention. This is some of our multi-year storm water infrastructure. This is a location down on Windover that feeds into Ashbrook Wash on the um well, let's start on the top.

So on the top left is actually um a location down on Westridge where a couple of storm events had began to erode and cause some failure under and be behind this scupper. So, we went in and removed it and replaced it with a um losing track of where I'm at just briefly with that storm structure that you see there to convey water. The bottom left is actually on um Windover.

So, on Windover, that great was put in there many, many years ago in an attempt to minimize flooding primarily to the house on the right hand side. During and after storm events, that house was often inundated with water. We came up with a new design, put in this drainage channel to convey that water away, and we are confident that we will have a substantial improvement and minimize, if not eliminate that backwatering. This is the Shea Boulevard project.

Uh, as a reminder, this project has been going on since the county gifted sheay to the town of Fountain Hills right after incorporation. This is the section that is eastbound between Palisades and Fountain Hills Boulevard. The design is completed. The project will be released for bid on September 11th. This is another multi-year project. It started with a grant for the first phase of it which was on Grande Rosita. During that phase, we discovered some other deficiencies.

We went ahead and did the project while we were waiting for the grant. and right at the end of the project were notified that we would be receiving a grant which will be a reimbursement for the project. Those grant monies will go back into the capital improvement project fund and be available for outlying years. This is the long anticipated wayfinding started in 2025 in regards to manufacturing and installation. They have installed the majority of the signs.

The exception to that are the B-15s in and around the downtown area. That will start in the coming days. This is the long anticipated substantial completion of the Golden Eagle empoundment. Golden Eagle Park is in an empoundment area with it's controlled by a dam and the purpose of that dam is to minimize or eliminate downstream loss of life and or property damage. We reached substantial completion right after the fiscal year ended in the new year started.

We have a couple of minor things that we're doing in there right now and we'll have a discussion about that later on tonight. This is a council approved project the downtown streetscape. This is Park View and Birdie River. This is a MAG grant that gets us to the 15% design concept. We're well underway there and we'll be having some public meetings to discuss that this fiscal year. This is just a quick uh review of our paving projects. We had about $5 million, a little bit more than 5 million.

We spent 4.9. These are the areas that were completed. This would be in the northwest quadrant of town. This is in that same general area. This is Gunsite. As a reminder, we came to council because not all of Gunsite was selected and asked to defer some other locations so we could complete a super segment there. This is another part up off of Palisades and Palamino. This is a section of Trevino. This is a little bit of Nicholas and Palmer way. This is El Lago.

This was a council directive project. That was the street department. Now, let's get on to some of the exciting stuff. Just before you move on, can I ask a question please? Yes, sir. On slide nine, you've got two of those culverts that are draining into a backyard that looks like it's obstructed. Is there a retention area? You see the one that you've got in orange and the one to the left where it drains into that same backyard and then it abuts a masonry wall on two neighbors down below.

Did we look at the ability of that retention basin to hold that amount of water that we anticipate? Mr. Mayor, council member. So, the entire area drains through a pipe that runs between those two houses and then it enters a pipe into the next area down below and then it actually drains on out into the street. There is no retention in involved. All of the water is a is a throughput and flows out onto the street and then into Baloa wash.

So it's just a momentary catch basin so to speak and then it drains out in through that pipe series of pipes catch basin and pipes and head walls. And then on the next slide 10 wayfinding sign. I've had complaints about the the sign that it's just south of King's Tree and Sarro. When you look to the south going uh east on King's Tree that curve seems to have struck view. Have you heard anything about that one? Um Mr. Mr.

Mayor, council member, we have received several comments in regarding the wayfinding signs. As we progress here, we're going to look and and verify and or make corrections where necessary on each of these concerns. Thank you. My wife would be very happy. As you can see, the street department stays busy year round, but there's not a substantial change from FY 24 to 25. Approximately 200 signs were repaired or replaced for obvious reasons.

Uh over the summer or at the beginning of the summer, we were able to utilize funding to seal not only the sheriff's office parking lot, but the shared parking lot with Park Place, the east parking lot of Fountain Park off of Panorama and also the botanical garden on Fountain Hills Boulevard. This is an intersection improvement at Sawarro and Palisades. That was the only signalized intersection within the town that did not have a protected left turn for each of the left turning movements.

It now does. As always, we have been doing an incredible amount of pothole repair all over town. Um, some of the most recent visible ones would be on Fountain Hills Boulevard between Palisades and McDow Mountain Road. We continually evaluate all of our walking surfaces and we address any uneven walking surfaces. The first one is identify, mark, grind, catalog, and then replace. We most recently in FY26 replaced several panels up Golden Eagle Boulevard north of Palisades.

On average, we receive about 15 calls for service after town hall closes over the night and on weekends. This is an example of one of our traffic signals that were were damaged. More often than not, it's a vehicle into the median and in into either trees or a large saworro. This is our facilities maintenance staff and some of the calls that they had and their calls for maintenance andor general already programmed onto the environmental programs.

As you can see, a considerable amount of material is collected and recycled and or properly disposed of. This is the second one. This is the electronics recycling one. For multiple years now, the street department has a dumpster where metals um that are being discarded, some of it town generated, but the majority of it a result of dumping in alleyways and washes. We pick that stuff up and we put it in these dumpsters and we dispose of it for a fee.

There is an exception here and I want to make this clear. for all of our signs which are made with sheet aluminum. We store those separately. We contact the recycling facility whenever we have a large shipment and we work to get to the best market price and when the market price is good, we deliver the materials and it's obviously paid for and that funding then comes back to the street department and the signs. Wash maintenance. Very exciting. Here is our map of all of our washes and dams.

We can blow that up in the future if you'd like. We did give a presentation as part of our closeout when we were asking for additional funding and amendment. There wasn't any substantial change after that. So, we're just under 50 acres is what we completed last year. And depending on tonight's discussion later on in this meeting, we will begin to proceed again very shortly. as quickly as I could. Any questions? Thank you for the opportunity. Rachel, all warmed up.

All right, moving on to our next presentation. Just as lively as an and exciting as public works is our budget update. Um Paul's going to talk about our fourth quarter um fiscal year revenue update um to kind of close out the year and give some options for council discussion. Oh, give me a minute. All right. Uh good evening. Welcome back, mayor, vice mayor, and council. Uh tonight I will be presenting the town's fiscal year 2025 and uh full year and quarter 4 revenue update.

I'll be focusing on local sales tax revenues and state shared revenues for the presentation. One thing to note before we get into it is we've talked a lot about the economic ups and downs. Um our sales tax revenues have fluctuated this past year. We did end the year pretty strong. We had a good June. We brought in a lot of construction sales tax revenues. that kind of buoyed our results. Um, but the headwinds still remain.

I just want to emphasize that every time we talk, we have a process in place uh to track our revenues, present them to mayor and council, let you know what things uh how things are looking and um we have policies and procedures in place to ensure that we're tracking them accordingly and making appropriate decisions and advising you accordingly.

So with that, uh, for the fourth quarter, we brought, well, the total net taxable activity for the town was $185.4 million, a decrease of almost $9 million. Um, for the full year, the total net taxable activity was $711 million. It's about 3% less than fiscal year 2024. A lot of that, or at least part of that, has to do with the loss of the long-term residential rental taxes that went away last year. that's going to be a portion of that.

Um, and as we get into the results, you'll kind of see, yes, it lowered, but as far as our sales tax revenues go, they're pretty much stable or flattened from the prior year. We're not seeing a large growth. kind of a consistent revenue collection compared to the prior year, fiscal year 2024, other than that long-term residential rental tax that that we did lose for uh total TPT, total local sales tax collections for the year.

Uh well, starting with the quarter, fourth quarter, we brought in $5.4 million, just slightly more than uh the same quarter in fiscal year 2024. Uh and in total, we brought in $20.2 million as a town for the entire fiscal year. That's a reduction of about 1.8% from the prior year. But that $370,000 or so of um lower sales tax collections for the year, that can almost entirely be attributed to the loss of the long-term residential rental tax. It's pretty close to that amount.

So again, I'm just trying to paint this picture where the town is pretty flat in our revenue collections at this point. And that's kind of consistent with what we've discussed with the fiscal year 2026 revenue projection staying relatively flat as well. Um, I added some things to this pres presentation just to kind of emphasize where we are compared to our projections. Uh, like we talk about, we have a conservative projection methodology.

We do this intentionally to protect the town, protect the staff, um, and be able to provide services to our residents. So, if you see on the right, uh, we brought in the 20.2 million compared to the 17.6 million projected. That's still almost 15% more than we projected last year. So again, well above our projections. We're still in a good place, but yes, things are slowing down. Definitely keep that in mind.

U one thing to note also for fiscal year 2026, we just slightly increased our total projection by about 2 and a.5%. Um up to a little bit over $18 million as a whole for the town. Retail sales kind of similar, a little bit a little bit different though. We are seeing a slight decrease in our retail sales. We brought in $2.7 million in the fourth quarter of fiscal year 2025. Slightly less, about 3% less than the same uh quarter the prior year.

In total, our our local sales tax revenues for retail sales did go down by almost 1%. Again, kind of painting this picture where there are some categories where yes, we're exceeding or outperforming our projections and our prior year collections, but really our biggest category, our retail sales, our most important category, which makes up more than half of these revenues is is slightly going down at this point.

And again, on the right, you'll see that it still exceed our projections by about three and a half% for the fiscal year. And we just slightly increased this category in our fiscal year 2026 projections by about 0.1%. So we're all I want to say there is just like we've discussed we're taking into consideration that there could be a possible slowdown this year. Um and if there is um hopefully we'll be well prepared for that. Retail sales without food sales.

It's the same data but taking out the food sales. I've been doing this for the past year. It's just a good indicator of local shopping trends, but taking out necessities like food. And so in that case, pretty similar results. You actually see a slight increase. It's kind of interesting. We see that in the fourth quarter of fiscal year 2025, we brought in almost the same exact amount of revenue as the same quarter the prior year. It's like within a few hundred dollars, which is unusual.

So, it's kind of cool in a way. Um but for the full year we brought in 8.52 million just about $10,000 more than the prior year. So again flattening of revenues not a significant increase like we have kind of seen the past few years before this. Now retail sales within that retail sales category we have remote sellers. It's kind of beneficial to show this just because this is one category within our retail sales that is booing it.

people are buying uh their goods online a lot more with the advent of all these online retailers and the Wayfair um changes in rules several years ago. So we did bring in $465,000 in the fourth quarter of fiscal year 25 about 8% more than the same quarter the prior year but um in total we brought in $1.85 million which is almost 7% more than the prior year. So within the retail category this is booing it up a little bit. Without this, um, it would probably be going down a little bit more.

Construction sales tax. Now, this category and services, which I'll discuss later, construction sales taxes, it fluctuates. It's dependent on the development within the town. Um, year-to-year, it's going to fluctuate quite a bit and actually results in an extraconservative projection methodology just because of the wide range of outcomes. So, here we did have a very strong fourth quarter.

Um, as you can see, we brought in 1.05 million in the fourth quarter, uh, which was that kind of end of the year surge for us, uh, which was 34% higher than the same quarter in the prior year. In total, we did bring in close to $3 million, which is it's still 7% below the prior year. Um, but again, I've kind of discussed this in a few presentations.

We've kind of had this three-year trend now of higher construction sales tax revenues compared to a baseline prior to that where um this seems to be more our baseline depending on the development within the town of course. Um again our projection was extra conservative in this category. Um and we well exceeded those projections by 64%. And um we did we did kind of loosen the reins a little bit in this category um by increasing the projection by 31% at 2.4 million for fiscal year 26.

That's still well below uh the actual revenues we've brought in the past three years. So there is a lot of thought. I just want to emphasize there's a lot of thought that goes into this process and we're doing the best we can to protect the town um in case of an economic downturn. Utilities and communications. This is our most stable category really every year, year-over-year.

It kind of fluctuates quarter to quarter, but as you can see, we brought in $350,000, slightly less than the same quarter the prior year, but in total, we brought in 1.72 million, an increase of about 4% um over fiscal year 2024. Again, uh our revenues exceed our projections by 7% and our uh projection for fiscal year 2026 was increased by about 5%.

Real estate, this is the category where we all expected it to um drop quite a bit substantially because the state uh enacted changes to get rid of long-term residential rental sales taxes. So, any uh residence that's rented for 30 days or more, that's no longer a taxable activity as of January of this year. So, as you can see that precipitous drop uh in the graph, we did take that into consideration though in our projections.

So, we brought in $156,000 for the fourth quarter of fiscal year 25 um which was a large decrease of course to fisc year 24 and 970,000 is what we brought in for the entire year. About 28% less than the prior year. But, as you can see, the good news is we brought in 5% more than our projections uh on the right. And because of next year fisc well fiscal year 26 year we're in now. This is the first year where we'll have no long-term residential rental taxes.

And that's our our new baseline going forward. Um we did reduce our projections all the way down to 681,000. A reduction of 26%. Restaurants and bars. This is one category that we have continually um see trending down the last three years. actually after um 2020 and the pandemic and things like that where there were closures and stuff, we saw kind of an increase when things started back uh opening back up in 2021, 2022. People started going out to restaurants again.

Now we're starting to see a trend where it's dropping. Um so we brought in about $400,000 in the fourth quarter of fiscal year 25 uh and 1.4 million in total for the year, which was about 3% less than the prior year. We did bring in just slightly above our projections, 2% more than our projections, but because of the downward trend, you'll see that our projections decreased by about 5% for fiscal year 26. And hopefully we see that trend start going back up here soon.

Definitely excited about the new restaurant openings in town and things like that. Definitely support your local restaurants, everybody watching. Um it's definitely important to our town, local economy, services, just like construction. This is one of those categories that kind of wildly fluctuates actually the last three years it's been relatively consistent though. Um it's kind of on upward trend and it's really probably our biggest outperforming category.

Well, it's our biggest outperforming category other than construction sales taxes. Uh we this category is kind of your leisure type uh tourism type activities going golfing, coming to the town, staying at a hotel, short-term rentals and things like that. Uh so we did bring in 754,000 for the quarter, a little bit less than the prior year quarter, but we brought in 2.47 million in total for the year, which was an increase of almost 12% year-over-year.

Um so as you can see, because of the fluctuating revenues and the wide range of outcomes, we have a very conservative projection of 1.6 million. Compared to that, we outperformed it by 53% in the fiscal year. Um and we still kept that conservative approach uh at the 1.69 69 million or 5% higher fiscal year 2026. With that, any questions on local sales tax collections? No. All right. And just real quick, state shared revenues, they they pretty consistently come in with our projections.

We we use the the Arizona League uh projections for to base these projections on. We use our own kind of methodology to kind of double check that. We brought in 940,000 for the fourth quarter compared to $97,000 of state shared sales taxes. Um state shared revenues for income taxes, it's called also called urban revenue sharing, we brought in 1.26 compared to 1.28. And our HERF and VLT revenues outperformed with 58,000 and 346,000 for the quarter.

So with that, that's my update on our local sales tax state share revenues and I'm available for any questions. Councilman. So Paul, at a high level, it looks like 2024 compared to 2025, we're we're do we did much better in 2025. That's why we're able to do more with infrastructure and amenities and still be conservative in approach. Is that a fair statement? Uh mayor, councilman, yeah, it's it's a pretty fair statement. 2024 was our best year as a town.

We brought in a little over $40 million of revenues. things are starting to slow down, but really what's allowing us to invest more in infrastructure is the three to four year period preceding that. We um we brought in more sales tax revenues well more than projected. We um received grant funding from the federal government that allowed us to use some of that monies on law enforcement.

So, we're able to save more money in our general fund and be able to do some of the things we've been doing the last few years as far as um making recommendations at council on putting a little bit additional money in the streets um capital projects as needed. Um but a lot of that has to do with the environment in the past. Right now, we are entering a little bit different period, but we have a lot of money. I wouldn't say a lot of money, that's not the best word.

We have reserves saved up in our fund balances in those appropriate funds. So that's how we're able to do that. Of course, for example, fiscal year 26, we have a huge economic downturn. Uh, and we have to make cuts to our general fund budget. We're probably going to staff would probably recommend council consider slowing down or stopping some of these capital projects as needed. So we can reserve um some of those fund balances and use them in future years when things kind of pick back up.

But um for now, for now, a lot of it has to do with just the past five years, including fiscal year 24 and 25. I I think the point really is I want to make sure that everybody recognizes the good things that we're doing that the improvements we're doing, even taking a conservative approach to our budget and how we're spending and putting money back into the infrastructure and amenities. Still have a long road to hoe, but we're doing a good job of it. Yeah, I appreciate that.

Paul, I'll just make a comment. It's really invaluable the service that you provide for this town and keeping track of this and staying on top of it for us. So, this council appreciates that and uh your wisdom is is appreciated. Thank you Mayor. And with that, we'll move on to the uh call to the public. And I'll Pardon me. Oh, I'm no call of the public. Yeah, call of the public. Um, town clerk, are there any comment cards? Mayor, are no speaker cards? No speaker cards. Okay, thank you.

And then we'll move on to the consent agenda. We have three items on there. I'd like a motion to to approve the consent agenda, items A, B, and C. Motion to approve consent agenda. Is there a second? I'll second it. We have a motion and a second. Roll call please. Council member Larby, I. Council member McMahon, Council Member Watts, I. Council member Earl, I. Council member Calibianis, I. Vice Mayor Skilicorn, yes. And Mayor Fidell, I. Mayor 70. Thank you.

[Music] So, we will move on to our regular agenda. And I'm going to uh open a public hearing with our first topic, which is um reviewing our amending a town's um zoning ordinance for the downtown overlay district. Uh Rachel, thank you, mayor. I'm going to turn this item over to John. This has been a discussion at our recent planning and zoning meeting and is now brought forward for discussion and direction to the mayor and council regarding the downtown overlay district.

Good evening, mayor and council. Welcome back. We had good summer break. As stated, the discussion for this item is a new chapter to our zoning ordinance, chapter 27, downtown overlay district. Back in uh September of last year, the council approved downtown strategy.

That strategy called for some updates to the zoning ordinance regulations to better implement the desired vision that uh we got from the public as we went through that process to create a more active and vibrant downtown to provide for more employment opportunities, more mixeduse residential opportunities, and the use and maintenance of vacant properties.

So staff went to work right after the council uh approved that strategy and began to work on the updates to zoning ordinance to help implement the council's direction and vision. So just as a a quick recap of where we are today when we look at this area of the downtown area, it's mostly zone C2. There's a small area that has a C3 PD on it, but the rest of it is zone C2, but also has two overlay districts.

One is the entertainment overlay district which mostly allows for some outdoor entertainment activities to occur. And another is a plan shopping plaza uh overlay district which allows for zero setbacks uh pretty much 100% lot coverage has a common parking uh area and then allows residential development on second floors primarily uh by right and more through um special use permits. So the proposal is to uh create one new overlay and then to eliminate the two existing overlays.

Over the uh years since we've had the entertainment district uh it's was put there to help encourage uh more active retail and entertainment uses. We haven't really seen too much activity by that. The uh overlay district also proposes to increase the by right residential uses and increase employment opportunities.

So looking more specifically then at the proposal uh downtown overlay district would cover the area bounded by law Montana sarro and avenue of the fountains but it's subdivided into three subd districts. So looking at each of those and what the ordinance does for them.

the Avenue District uh which would then include uh uses by right in the C1, CC, and C2 zoning districts permits outdoor entertainment as in the current ordinance, but instead of requiring council approval for the encroachment permits in the rightway would allow those be approved administratively by staff. This is so those could be done more expeditiously and and help encourage that type of use.

as proposed and sent to you by the PNZ commission increases the residential density from eight units per acre to 50 units per acre. So just to help understand what that means on a typical lot. Uh today with the uh current code we've been allowing two units per acre on or two units on a 6,000 foot lot. With the revised ordinance, it would be six units on that same 6,000 square foot lot. In comparison, uh the Parkplace development is around, I believe, 48 units per acre.

and SUP has been approved in one location in the same range about 45 uh to 50 units per acre. So, some precedent has been set for getting up close to that 50 units per acre. It does however in the overlay not allow the residential on the ground floor uh within that area.

When presented to the planning and zoning commission, uh it also included some restrictions for the ground floor in the Avenue district to try to over time uh switch it from a lot of the office uh service type businesses but and bring in more of the active retail entertainment type uses.

And so the proposal there in the ordinance again as it went to PNC that was in within 50 ft of the street front that ground floor uses would be restricted and this lists some of the types of uses that could still go in that area. the any existing business would be allowed to stay. But over time as as different suites properties became vacant and would be uh replaced that um it would be these more active retail uses.

The ordinance again is presented to the uh planning and zoning commission did allow though for property owner to apply for an SUP to continue to have the uh service and office type uses if they weren't able to fill it with the active retail. Again in PNZ's review, they took this out of the ordinance as they recommended it to you. Another portion is the business district. So again allows uses by right in the COC, C1, CC, and C2 districts.

Continues to overlay entertainment overlay uh uses, but removes the uh direct provision for the use of the ride ofway through an encroachment permit. still be possible through another means in the town code, but it's not listed specifically here as a as a use or an activity. Again, increases the residential density to 50 units per acre as it did in the Avenue District.

I did note as I went back through the ordinance today that I I missed one of the switches uh when I was updating the ordinance and one that you have in your packet says 30 units per breaker still as it was went to P&Z, but the the intent was to make that 50. So just keep that in mind as as we go forward and hopefully get to a motion. Again would allow um the this density by right on second floors and through SUP on the ground level as currently in the code.

The third area is the innovation district. Again, allows this typical commercial type uses in those districts. But the the change here is to allow some light industrial type uses as listed the laboratories, some manufacturing assembly of non-hazardous materials, uh some assembly and storage, uh and as in all the commercial districts still allow residents to use through an SUP. So, those are the three subdists uh in the new uh overlay.

This overlay also provides uh some opportunities for temporary uses of vacant properties within the district. Popup type activities or short-term uses. They wouldn't require full improvements as normally required by code. So, some of these vacant lots until they're ready for actual development. We can get some use out of them, maybe help keep them a little cleaner and nicer for uh for the town.

There are some guidelines that the town engineer and myself have drafted up to help uh guide the use of these properties. Parking in the area continues. No changes uh in the uh overlay district as to what it is currently. There has been some discussion about this as we just went through the PNC. And so just so again the council understands current code within plat 208 if you're the smaller lot. So, the ones not shaded in green up to 10,800 ft².

Your parking requirements are met through the common parking and there's no requirement for any parking. There are five uh uh larger lots as it was originally developed. Uh and those lots are required to provide at the time all their own parking. The last time we updated uh the uh plan shopping plate, we switched that. So, those property owners can apply for an SUP to switch at least up to 50% of the parking into the plat 208 area. Provide some relief there.

Again, the setbacks and lock coverage requirements of the existing code stay the same. We did make one uh adjustment and that is to uh require a build two line. Right now, it's a a setback and you can go there or further back, but in the downtown area, we're trying to create that urban core and feel, which means you really want the buildings brought up close to the street.

And so instead of just a setback, we have a bill 2 line in the plat 208 area with some exceptions where there are existing easements or or setback things in the plat that they would have to observe. So planning commission has recommended approval uh as uh they presented it. Staff can support that, but we also did want to bring to council's attention some of the changes, some of the things that we had previously recommended to PNZ. Any questions for me at this time? Councilman, Mr.

Mayor, Director Wesley, one thing I wanted just to confirm was about the SUP for office space. Um, when I read it, I thought it said something just a little bit different. So, let's just make sure we're 100% clear uh from what you just said in the presentation is that um in the downtown area, uh, office space is permitted with an SUP. Is that correct, mayor, vice mayor? So, in the ordinance as recommended by the PNZ, there are no restrictions.

Any of the uh C1C2 uses are allowed by right at first floor all along the avenue. It was in what was staff had presented to PNC and recommended to PNC that there was the limitation restriction that on the ground floors in the Avenue district only within 50 ft of the street that the in the future as spaces became uh vacant they could not be filled with office service type uses need to be an active uh use unless they got approval of an SU. Okay. And and Mr. Mayor, Director, uh, Wesley.

I mean, I, for a long time, I've had this vision for a culinary district downtown. So, more focused on restaurants, um, shops, uh, coffee, you know, bars, ice cream shops, uh, and less, um, you know, white collar offices, which are frankly obsolete. Um, I'm almost wondering about, you know, making that a little bit more concrete. I mean, I like the way the wording, you know, obviously beyond 50 ft, that's fine. You know, that that's fine.

Um, but for storefront locations, you know, prime retail locations, um, you know, I really want exclusion to be rock solid. And if we exclude that that part about the SUP and just you know we we leave it that this 50 ft we can exclude office space for future development. Is that correct? Yes. Yes. Okay. And then Mr. Mayor procedurally are you looking for a motion before the end of the hearing or uh do you want to you know gavel the hearing out and then hear a motion?

How did you want to hear that procedurally? So, I think we need to have uh council discussion and then if there's and then we check and see if there's any public comment cards and then we'll close the hearing and then we'll we'll work on a a mo a motion at that time. So, Mr. Mayor, you want to do a motion after you gave the hearing out. Correct. Correct. Thank you, Councilman Watts.

John, I think I expressed my concern about the commercial aspect uh on the avenue and I think I'm not a supporter of having commercial in but am a supporter of retail and restaurants and all of the other aspects of retail. Uh the other thing is that I'm concerned about is the 50 units per acre as opposed to maybe 35 units per acre. I think that density is inherently problematic for the residents in the future.

If you have an entertainment district, a bar down below, a sports bar, something like that, it's going to cause problems. Third, I think we really need a a component in there that goes back to something we had talked about a couple years ago, which was very definitive, objective decibel readings that the MCSO can enforce based upon distances and and decibel levels. Um, so that we can enforce it rather than being subjective.

And I think um I I think those are the three concerns that I've got at this point that I think warrant some further discussion. Councilwoman, thank you very much. John, if um we um restricted the use for downstairs to retail, would that take care of what we're talking about as far as office use, etc.

or um you need something larger in scope because it says that you you staff recommends we go back I think to something like that or uh mayor council member um trying to think the best way to to answer the question clearly.

So certainly in the staff had looked at it based on the comments that we understood from the public and and other comments such as the vice mayor made a moment ago about this desire we've heard in the community to uh help the avenue really become that entertainment district that was envisioned when that overlay was created in in 2016.

We felt it was important to put some restrictions on the uses that could go in as spaces became vacant and leave it uh and encouraged through that then active retail uh restaurants entertainment type venues and so that's what we had recommended to the PNZ they took that out of the ordinance as it has been sent to you so if it's the desire of the council for that restriction to be there the council will need to to make that change right okay and a lot of those things are listed so thank for responding.

Councilwoman, thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, thank you for your presentation, John. Um, I would really like to just what I would recommend is just a clean version as it is as has been recommended by planning and zoning. I watched those meetings. They took a lot of time and a lot of deliberation and and thoughtful process to to do this.

Um, I think if we eliminate the possibility of an SUP, you know, all that does is binds this council and planning and zoning and the staff from having flexibility in the future. And I and I trust this council and planning and zoning and the staff that if we do need some flexibility, it's available. I don't think we should just short circuit that flexible element here. And then the second thing is as far as 50 units is concerned, I I I would go with the P&Z recommendation on that too.

Um, you know, when developers build these structures, you know, it it is a business model and giving them more flexibility to make a profitable business model is to me paramount. And again, I just hate for the council to start micromanaging how many square feet a developer should put in their development. Um, that that should be market forces. If people want to tend to get smaller studio apartments, I've got no problem with that. If they want to build threebedrooms, that's good, too.

But once again, you know, planning and zoning recommended 50 and I would I would support that recommendation. Councilman. John, one question I forgot. What is the distance between the curb and the build two line? Distance between the curb and the build the curb. That's going to fluctuate a little bit. But your build two line is based on something property line. The property line.

So the it says at least 70% of the building face needs to be at the property line because we're trying to get all the buildings fairly aligned. Correct. Going down the avenue. Correct. Right. But we and so what you're saying is the setbacks the easements vary as we go down the avenue of the town. There are a few places where there are either easements or setbacks specified in the plat. And so we'd have to respect those.

Uh but otherwise and and along the avenue there is a five foot setback all the way along the avenue. So the build two line is going to be would be then that that that five foot right. Okay. Thank you. Thank you mayor. Uh director Wesley I just had a quick question. My understanding for an SUP would be that whether it's listed in the specific ordinance or not a developer can request for exceptions to our zoning. Is that accurate?

Uh, mayor, council member, it really needs to be a specific uh uh stated SUP. If we don't make provision for it in the code, then then it wouldn't be possible. There's not. Okay. Thank you. I I must have unders uh misunderstood a previous conversation. Thank you, John. I have a question. dealing with the SUP.

I I think it's important to keep the SUP for flexibility because if they can't put a retail or a um like a hobby or a toy store or whatever in there, they have the flexibility to be able to put an office or professional um CPA or whatever in in that spot. My question is this. If we pass this ordinance, leave the SUP in there and at some time down in the future they require an SUP because they can't get a retail spot or a bar in there. Um the SU is presented, it's approved.

Is that is that SUP good into perpetuity or when that business leaves does it revert back to the original U district? Mayor, when a SU is approved and the use is established, then it runs with the land at that point, unless some other stipulation is put on the approval. Yeah. I just wanted to be sure that was clear to everybody. I'd like to make a move to approve ordinance 25-02. Point of order. We're still in the hearing. We are still in the hearing. We haven't closed the hearing yet.

Is there any other council uh discussion? Do we have any comment cards? Don Clerk, mayor, we have three uh one person is not speaking and she wanted you to know she was against this. Uh two speakers are Larry Myers followed by Cecil Yates. Mayor, council. So, amidst all the uh discussion of economic development and having been here for 44 years and knowing full well that this was always intended as the fun zone, personally, I don't find realators and accountants and insurance people very fun.

So my first inclination is to do something to make it the fun zone. But then again, you don't own the land and you zoned it a particular way. And so how are you going to tell the land owners what they can and can't do. So the first thing you have to do actually is change the zoning, which I think that's what this is intended to do. And since an SUP runs in perpetuity with the land, you're sort of boxing the fun zone out, so to speak.

In basketball rebounding terms, you're never going to get what you fully intended as the fun zone. And then listening to our uh economic report, we're kind of stagnant or declining in our sales tax revenue and the fund zone would probably be a boost to the economic sales tax revenue. So you're pretty much in a difficult position and sometimes you have to make difficult decision decisions in difficult positions.

And I would say I support the way the town staff presents it, not the way the planning and zoning presents it. And one of the things that the planning and zoning just can't seem to get over is if you eliminate the parking restrictions that John spoke of, you will make the fun zone. And people, regardless of whether they have to walk a little further to have some fun, they will because they do the fair. People walk God knows how far to get to the fair. the car show.

They walk God knows how far to get to the car show. So, if you want to have a bunch of bars and restaurants, get rid of the parking. Allow these people with the properties downtown to do what they need to do. And you'll help yourselves along and create the atmosphere that will allow the land owners to make their own correct decisions because everyone's motivated by money.

And there is nothing this town can do, I don't believe, to encourage financially the land owners to make the decision you really want them to do. And so I support the way John has written it, not P&Z. And I would encourage you to do the same. Thank you. Evening, mayor and council. My name is Cecil Yates, 21-year resident, uh, previous planning and zoning commissioner, twice elected to council, and all-around good guy.

Um, I want to share with everyone the urban core concept is all over the world, all over the United States. In fact, we mirrored it when we built Parkplace Phase One. And so the proof is in the pudding. The concept of commercial on the first floor and residential above. It creates its own little economy. It's kind of neat. Um but you do need population to do that. It's not just by zoning alone. You got to have critical mass.

Um but what this does do is the addition uh additional housing opportunities for workers, place to live, younger folks, things of that nature. The fun zone, I like that because it will attract that.

Um, and respectfully, uh, Council Member Watts, the density, Parkplace, we're at 53, uh, units per acre, um, not 48, but I'm just saying again, the market, um, dictates that a,000 square foot apartment or less is perfect, especially in our market going to 35 per acre like or what it was was, uh, two units per 6,000. That's a 3,000 square foot apartment, and it really defeats the whole purpose.

Um what it also does for us building owners, it it creates another revenue source because now your upper levels are pretty much feeding the whole uh operation of your building and and that way you can respectfully give a discount to the first floor or at least lower your overhead. So it creates some other opportunities for primary uh retail users. Um obviously the sales tax that comes with that.

Uh, I I would stress and uh uh madame attorney, I haven't had the pleasure of meeting you yet, but I believe this is a Prop 208 um violation. You can give more property rights, but you cannot take them away. So, zoning, whether it's with an SUP or not, telling a building owner you can you can no longer rent it to a commercial user, I'm sorry, an office or a non- retail user. I don't believe you can do that.

But I will share if the model works, which it should, and the proof again is in ParkPlays phase one, um property values will rise, more retail users uh will come to the location because they know that they can uh capture those those sales. But if if you uh take that right away, um you're you're losing a revenue source for those building folks. And ultimately, and and council member Calan Kell Brenda Kay, you hit it on the head. the market will drive this. So create the opportunity.

The overlay is fine. Keep keep it simple. Uh but do not take away property rights and any way that you form this saying that well we're going to limit what you can do on your first floor. You should not do that. But this is this is a good idea. Thank you. That's all. Okay. Any other discussion from council? I'm going to close it right now. All right. I'm going to close the hearing and then uh we need to uh request a motion. Councilman Skill. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Yeah, I would like to make a motion uh to approve this with just two minor amendments. uh one I do want to strike the uh office space from the SCP language and also I want to make a minor change um the multifamily residential I want to change that to up to 30 units per acre. Councilwoman, may I ask a clarifying question? Sure. Thank you. Mayor, council member, when you say strike the office space, do you mean to return to the earlier language regarding retail, the restaurants, retail shops?

That is the intent of the motion. Uh, frankly, I don't see the SU as being a benefit. Frankly, I look at zoning as a promise. Um, but if the SUP remained with this a limited amount of flexibility but without office space, I think that's a fine compromise that I think the rest of council could go along with. In in that case, I second Councilman Watts the the 30 with a sage advice of Cecil saying, you know, the thousand square foot.

Um I would you consider 40 as a as a middle ground between the 30? I mean, I I personally I prefer 35, but I think 40 is middle ground between your 30 and the 50 we've got today. I think the product across the street at at Parkplace is a different product that we're going to end up with over on the retail, the restaurant side. I'd like to strike commercial and look at 40. Is that something you'd be willing to consider? So, I entertain uh amending my motion.

And I think we should let the discussion advance before we get to that point. I mean, I also think that um Councilwoman Larby had thoughts about parking. I know in the past and you know, this would be the time to do that if if if she's prepared to do that also. So, I think this discussion will go and then we can see what the consensus is. Councilwoman McMahon. Thank you. I'm unfortunately I'm a little bit confused.

Um Rachel, um can you please It says to council to consider adding back in the section of the ordinance, you know, for commercial active commercial uses. So is that's the town's preference? Um it's is that the objective um that the town wants to achieve with this? And just answer that question, please. I'm gonna speak, but I'm gonna welcome John back up if he'd like to chime in. Thank you, John. Sorry, I wasn't sure if I could ask him back. Sure. No, that's fine.

And I I'll I'll give a brief answer and then let John fill in um some of the details. But essentially, what was presented at PNZ was commercial focused, right? It was right, to use Mr. Meyer's terms, it was focused on a fund zone. Um it was intended to help um create and incentivize more um different uses down on their on our avenue. That's what was presented. However, PNZ's recommendations um deviated from that quite a bit. So, now we're here asking council, which way would you like to go?

Um again, there's there's concerns that were brought up. The intent, yes, to answer your question, is to try to help reinvigorate our downtown, try to attract more activity, whether that's through, again a lot of discussion about bars and restaurants, other retail, other things down there to again create this draw, this activity hub, um, and you know, a commercial corridor. That being said, John, what did I miss in that? Town manager, nothing. Perfect. But let me just elaborate. He said it all.

Uh, mayor, councel, let me just uh read from the draft ordinance as that went to the PNZ commission. The piece that got that that was uh deleted from the ordinance so you can see what it said. So this was uh section A1 uh A uses listed in the this is permitted uses then in the overlay district in the avenue uses listed in zoning ordinance section 12.02B O2B and C.

Provided, however, that ground floor uses within 50 ft of the rideway for the nearest adjacent street shall be limited to restaurants and cafes, bars and taverns, gift shops, apparel stores, variety stores, and similar retail commercial stores, entertainment venues, or similar uses. So, that's the way it was worded and listing the types of things we want to see in that area.

And then you had attached to uh your packet uh listing that we did from going through just the next codes of what types of uses we believe would meet that uh that standard. And so it would not allow by right uh your typical office service type activities. Thank you. Um, so do you think that the limiting you the to active commercial uses wouldn't it cover everything in this or no?

If the mayor, council member, my preference would be if that's the direction you want to go if we just reinstate that same language that I just read as it went to the P&Z commission that that would be the way to to handle it. Okay. So, I can make a motion to include that. And then, excuse me, mayor, but again, the other question be uh back to the vice mayor's comment whether you want to also include the SUP option to add back in the uses that that are being excluded.

So, add back in the SUP option. Yeah, if you want. So, again, the ordinance as it went to PNZ included the opportunity to apply for an SUP to be able to use any of the put in any of the uses that were excluded. So that'd be the other part of it if you want to include that SUP for the excluded uses. Okay, that's complicated. Okay, Councilwoman. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Yeah, just um again, before we vote on the amendment, I just want to make clear that I I'm for the um the PNZ version of this, I thought it was well thought out. Um, I do support the SUP so we can take take a look and and do modify things as they come.

And then when when it comes to, you know, regulating again the number of units, you know, when I ran um for this office, you know, the less government, the better, you know, and again, we're we're up here right now trying to say the more we're going to do more government, we're going to do more regulations. We're going to tell private people what they can do with their their property. and and I'm I'm I'm just dead against it.

I I think this this council is going in the wrong direction by invoking more government into the lives of the business community. It to me this is a really easy decision. Councilwoman, I believe there may be a misunderstanding. Our current overlay district allows for eight units per acre. Um we are increasing that according to this motion to 30. The question on the table is whether we would want to increase it further to 50.

So it when we talk about the increasing or decreasing of government, this this is quite literally allowing for more as it is. I will also add that if my fellow council member is concerned about the government overreach, perhaps we change the zoning to a 100 per acre. Councilman Watts, I I need a clear I need a clarification on um the services that are there, the insurance companies, the real estate companies are service businesses and do not generate sales tax. Is that correct?

So, the idea of having a fun area makes a lot of sense. And I agree with Councilwoman Larby that look, we're going from 8 to 30 or 40. However, we get there, we've made a dramatic improvement to what can be as opposed to what can't be. And I think we look at it from a positive standpoint. I don't like the idea of having any kind of commercial in there. I I could support the SUP.

And so those are the two comments that I've got, but I want to make clear that the that the service businesses don't generate sales tax and it was made real clear that we need the sales tax desperately. Thank you. So, um I have a question for um Council Member Watts. So, when you say you're not for commercial, are you for um active retail? Is that what you're saying? you're narrowing it down even further or are you accepting the language as written right now?

I think I could support the active retail if it generates sales tax. Well, probably just keep it broad in the sense that active retail because that's really limiting. I mean, how do you how are you going to define that? What's the quantitive thing? You know what I'm saying? So I think if if you want active retail then active retail because I I think that's the point in getting more revenue. I think that could be addressed with the SUP though. I don't know John.

I mean the I'm more for the the way staff wants it um than the way P and Z want it. And that's just my opinion. Council Miss Kiligore. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And maybe a a clarification is due. Uh, and I because I think we're talking around the subject and we might be So, my motion was about taking office space out of the SUP. So that even though real estate agents, attorneys, insurance agents, they're fun, but they're fun after 5:00 PM.

And I want to give opportunities for Fountain Hills to be more fun after 5:00 p.m. with restaurants and bars and billiard halls and pinball arcades, whatever it's going to be. And so our our white collar staff can come and take their tie off and enjoy themselves in the evening.

and maybe eventually they give up that location and a really great restaurant goes in and uh we we have a Michelin you know level chef that comes in to Fountain Hills and makes puts us right on the map that's my vision and that's why uh I would prefer the office space so we we are kind of conf you know kind of getting confused commercial so retail good right so toy stores good clothing stores good uh like you know someone who sells vintage buttons is good, right?

Um, but also those restaurants, the coffee shops, the tea shops, things like that, very good because they all all of them produce sales tax. So, that's my vision behind that. So, that's why I specifically said office space and we love we love our real estate agents, we love our attorneys, we love our insurance agents, and uh we want them to stay, you know, past maybe 8:00 PM uh in our town. Um, so that's my vision there.

Also, this what I proposed is a little bit more like what what uh staff and director Wesley proposed. Uh and that I still think it's a really good idea. Uh I still think it's a value for our town. It promotes that vision and it what it does is that it helps councils going forward. Now, if council going forward wants to change this, they have the freedom to do that, right? They can even they can even add maybe maybe we find a new innovative office space that's fun.

um and they want to add that back in. They can and they have the freedom to do that. So, I don't think this really limits that. It's just um but but it does change it administratively. Um on the density, you know, the number I came up was just a little bit less dense than what Councilman Watts wanted. Um, I'm kind of curious of what people's thoughts are on if it's 30 35, which was what Councilman Watts uh proposed, um, or 40. Um, I still think that Parkplace is a very, very different building.

Um, because we're talking about the upstairs of the current development there of very very different uh, it's just it's not comparable. So, I just kind of curious what people's thoughts are on that. I'll I'll give you my thoughts on that. I think we should have as high a density as we can allow. You get people to your downtown area and then you're compatible with uh Park Place. Um make it all uniform. You want people in the downtown area.

That's where you're going to drive uh residents with the higher density and it's also going to help our our sales tax uh revenue at at the end of the day. And then I'll I'll yield. And uh Councilman Councilwoman McMahon. Thank you very much. Can we separate this into two other amendments?

Like one about the density and then one about the uses of the commercial uses or can we make it into one motion to um in you know as is plus adding what staff wants or I mean how do we want this motion to work so it's clear we understand it because a lot has been set up here. Well, we we already have a motion and a second on the table for what? Can you please tell me again? Thank you. Oh, for having and Okay. Yeah. Thank you.

And then John, you had the language already written that you had submitted. Yes. Uh, mayor. And that that is the part that I maybe still just a little bit unclear on. The easiest thing for us as staff at this point would be to say with regard to the limitation of uses is to include the language as recommended to PNZ and then either with or without the option to apply for the SUP for the uh eliminated uses.

Some of the other ways that's been discussed gets a little bit more confusing about how we would actually word that or handle that. We can make the changes but may mean having to uh you know come back with with that language. Uh but otherwise would be easy on the the density whatever density you decide on. Um I don't want I don't want people to get hung up on the SU because you don't have to approve the SU. I mean so but it does give some flexibility if it's needed.

So I think that's something that this council should consider because you you you have property owners that might need that flexibility down the road. Gail is next. Councilwoman Gail Earl. Thank you. Um Allan, I would support the 35 units going from eight units per acre to 35 units per acre. Um also, John, did you just say that you want to keep the language in this what PNZ recommended? Sorry, I want to make sure. Okay.

staff has supported the language that we sent to PNZ which includes the limitation on the uses on the Avenue. Okay. To encourage the the active retail restaurant uh type atmosphere. Okay. So, I know there's a motion on the floor, but when it's time to make a motion, I'm going to make the motion that includes that and keep the 50 units as stated in the PNC's recommendation. So, Councilwoman, just one. Yeah. Short thing. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Um, I'd like to address this question to our new town attorney. Hey, Jen. Um, what are the Prop 207 ramifications of what we're discussing tonight? Thank you. Um, so Proposition 207 requires that if there's a downzoning, a downgrading of a property, um, that the a property owner can apply for just compensation, uh, in order to have to receive the the value of the property back. However, here the question is whether or not Prop 207 applies.

Is I mean, it could it applies, but is this really a downzoning of the property? Um, because arguably, um, restricting it a little bit further actually raises the value of the property. So you have to prove that. So Prop 207 could be implicated, but this is a very gray area.

This isn't one, this isn't one where you're taking a zoning that is traditionally a very high value and then reducing it, like taking it from one type of use to another use that's drastically different that radically changes the value. So that's the Prop 207 question as to whether or not there is a um if it actually change reduces the property value. Is there any verbiage that we could add to this that that would um minimize or mitigate any downward exposure?

Well, if there is a downward valuation, if if there's a some a property owner believes there's a downward valuation, they can submit a claim and you can either choose to pay the claim or allow for a um a variance for that particular property. So, there's something that can be done after the fact.

um it doesn't you don't need necessarily have it into the zoning um because it's kind of built into the the options for how you mitigate it if someone were to to have a valid claim that they could you know back with some support and so you can compensate them or give them a a variance. So a variance or an SUP. Yeah. Thank you mayor. If I if I may one of the options there and I think the one that is is used sometimes is revert them back to the zoning prior to the change.

So, let's revert them back to the two overlays as they exist today is an option that could be chosen. Councilman Watson, John, can you I can't find the planning and zoning verbiage. Can you read it to me? Sure. Yes. And it was attached in in the in the packet, but you mean as we staff sent it to PNZ, that version? It is P is staff recommended to PNZ. So we're focusing on the entertainment dis the right the fun district as opposed to the commercial district. Right. Yes.

Again that that was attached there in the packet. So it's section 7 A1 A which again is a list of permitted uses in the Avenue district uses listed in the zoning ordinance sections 122B and C which are the is a section that lists all the primary commercial uses. John, I'm sorry to interrupt you in and for the packet for those up here, it's page 388. So, just so you can follow along with John, but it does get a little confusing in the packet, so I can see why you're looking for clarification.

Go ahead, John. Sorry about that. Uh provided however that ground floor uses within 50 ft of the rideway for the nearest adjacent street shall be limited to restaurants and cafes, bars and taverns, gift shops, apparel stores, variety stores and similar retail commercial stores, entertainment venues or similar uses.

Then from there it goes into the entertainment uh activity things that are in the current ordinance uh museums and then also then gets to the multif family residential up to 50 units per acre above the ground floor. Thank you Councilman Skillard. Yeah. Um Mr. Mayor, I just wonder if reverting to the staff's vision on the usage is just just forget about the SUP language and just revert back to the staff's recommendation is fine. I mean, it meets the uh culinary district vision.

It meets the entertainment district. you know, it's it's it enforc you know, it really enforces the fund zone. You know, I think that they put together and I I I concur with their vision. And then yeah, the density question I think we heard, you know, we had one call for 35. Um I think um 30 is better. I mean, we should figure what that conversation is. And then and you know, but to answer some of the questions, you know, we it's about the SUP, we talk about flexibility.

Well, that flexibility undermines the intent of zoning, right? So, if you know and and frankly the um emergence in the past 15 or 20 years of SUPs has really led to the gross uh over urban over urbanization of America's cities, made them too expensive to live in. uh made, you know, other issues because of density become very problematic.

You know, not keeping it clean, keeping crime down, things like that where we have a perfect little spot here where we're not over urbanized because of our lack of density. And I want to continue to um keep that promise. And I also made a promise that we would never block people's views. Well, when you build denser, you block people's views. And I still remember when I first moved in the Fountain Hills, I went and got my haircut at a little a little shop for my directions right over here.

And I remember that the lady who cut my hair was like the buildings downtown are too tall. And that was right when Park was built, right? Uh people that was that resonated with me and people really think that in the town. Uh so I I just want to point that out. And you know, frankly, the the density in other cities, has it helped them or hurt them? Has density in Tempe helped Tempe? Has density in Phoenix helped Phoenix? I would argue it hasn't.

And you know, and I can go in, there's a drastic I I look at the city of Los Angeles. It's full of smog and traffic and and crime and pollution because people 60 years ago didn't go, "Hey, maybe we should require, you know, quarter acre lots here." uh we wouldn't have those problems. I just want to I don't want to get into those situation here and I would I'd argue over any more density. So I still want to argue for 30. Um but I'm I'm a compromiser to my heart. So I'll go along with 35.

I don't know about 40 though. So do I mean do we have we have a consensus on 35? All right. All right. So, I amend my motion to 35 and I'd like to just amend um the the uh usage to what planning zoning recommended for the 50 ft and we'll scratch the SUP language, especially if it if if you think it's confusing to write that. So, Mayor again, if I may, do you mean do you mean to amend it to John's language? Yes, absolutely.

And I don't know if if Councilwoman Larby would like to um resec that or not. Yes, I will resecond that, but I do also have a comment if that's okay. Thank you. Uh I I also lean toward 30 because again we're we're changing from 8 to 30. That feels like a pretty significant jump to me. Um 35 it's not a huge difference. I'm happy to compromise. No problem.

Um, but I do want to kind of echo the caution to future councils that although density in your downtown and in our avenue district is where we want density as far as that's going to be the highest density we have in town is going to be that avenue district. However, should we set a precedent where we're going too far down that um spectrum, then we set the precedent for the surrounding areas as well. And I I recently took a this is a sidebar, but I'll get back. I promise.

I recently took a trip to Nashville. A few of my friends, we commented, you know, I was a little disappointed by Broadway. Everyone talks about Broadway on at Nashville, right? You dropped me in the middle of that. I I couldn't tell you which city I was in. If if I look around, it looks just like Milav. It looks just like downtown Phoenix. It looks just like I'm running out of examples, but Austin.

Um I I know that would never happen to that scale in Fountain Hills, but if you drop me in the middle of Fountain Hills, I want to know I'm in Fountain Hills. Point blank period. And I think we need to be very conscious as a council and on future councils of ensuring that you drop me in the middle of town, I know which town I I'm in and it's the best one in Arizona. Okay, we'll get the last couple of comments and then I need to have a clear motion and a second if that's possible. Um, okay.

Uh, Councilwoman McMahon, thank you very much. Um, we're not Nashville, we're not Los Angeles. We're a very small town. Our Avenue of the Fountains and the area isn't that big that I think that um, we have a really big big density issue. And um, I think that the other way of looking at it is the square footage per um, unit that would be either enlarged or restricted to like Cecil said.

Um because like if you look at part place you know that smaller units it it it generates a lot of revenue and um I think that given that we've already allowed that I'm concerned about restricting it and maybe running into um reducing the value of property you know um that is more of a concern to me than you know limiting it to retail uses. so to speak. But that that's my opinion on it.

Mayor John, next I want to pick up where we were a moment ago in terms of the permitted uses in the Avenue District because I've just read the section that lists those permitted uses. The piece that follows that lists the uses allowed through special use permit or what activities can happen through special use permit. It has two things. First one is uses uh listed in zoning ordinance sections 122B and C not permitted by ride on the ground floor.

So that's where the use permit language is to allow those other uses. So what I think I'm hearing from the vice mayor is we would scratch that and so it is just limited to the uses permitted by right and so that needs to be clear. And the second one listed as multif family residential above the ground floor at a density right now it says more than 50 depending on what you change this to uh 30 35 40 that language we would intend would go there.

So there's still that potential for a higher density but through special use permit. So it's coming to the council on a case by case basis to see anything higher than what the by right would be. I think uh Mr. Mayor Director Wesley just summed it up right there. So um the you know the eliminate office you know and well use you know use the staff put together usage.

Um I don't I like scratching the SU and uh you know I think we've I think we have a consensus that 35 uh units per acre uh is acceptable. What's the motion? That is the motion. So your motion is to take the staff recommendation and the Yeah, the staff recommendation except for scratching SU and and N35 and Mr. Mayor, Director Wesley, what was the original uh staff recommendation for density or did you have one?

So mayor, vice mayor, uh when we started this, I was being very tentative and suggested 15 because I wasn't sure there'd be an acceptance there.

like it's it's like from God's mouth the director Wesley's but I was I was glad to increase it quickly to 30 when I felt it there was yeah 30 would be good too and then went on up to 50 with with the PNZ as we discussed the examples already in the town center at the 45 to 50 range so [Music] we're sticking with 35 and and Hannah do you second that yes so we have a motion and a Second. Uh, roll call, please. Council member Earl, I. Council member Larby, I. Council member McMahon. Nay.

Council member Calibianis. Nay. Council member Watts. I. Vice Mayor Skilicorn. I. Mayor Fidell. I. Mayor. 5 to2. [Music] Okay. Um, agenda item B is uh relating to the extension of the building permits for phases two and three for Parkplace development. Rachel. All right. We're staying downtown. We're staying downtown for this discussion. Um, John's going to introduce the item um to give you a quick background on the request and why we're here tonight. Mayor and Council Parkplace.

We're familiar with it. It's just right next door. It's a project we've been looking forward to see extended uh in our downtown with the phases two and three on the Avenue and over here on Verie River. Building permits have been approved and uh waiting for the applicant to be able to get his financing together. We've been again hopefully looking forward to that take place. Uh he does have permits that have been approved previously.

They uh have been again waiting uh to be uh paid for so they can be issued. We have though uh time limits that run with permits. They're good for 180 days uh after approval, but they can be extended. These permits have uh exceeded that time frame. Plus, we have uh come up to the point where, as you know, the the 2024 building codes went into effect as of yesterday.

Knowing that uh this change was coming and uh wanting to be able to keep this project moving forward quickly, the applicant uh submitted a letter to us uh in August asking for the uh project to be able to continue under the 2018 codes as previously approved rather than having to be redrawn under the 2024 codes. Staff is supportive of that, but felt it was important for the council to hear this and be the ones to make that decision going forward.

And so the request was uh to allow the permits to u remain active or able to be pulled up through the end of this year under the 2018 codes. Vice Mayor, Mr. Mayor, I actually like to make a motion to approve this and also to urge uh Fed Chair Paul to lower interest rates so we can get this done. May I request an amendment to that motion? I' I'd like to propose an amendment to approve pending rene renegotiation of the development agreement on or before December 31st.

Staff may approve renewing the Parkplace permit pursuant to the 2018 building code. I second that. Oh, sorry. It's technically I'm amending Allen, so I don't know if he needs to accept it. Sorry. No, I can accept it's it's going from May or to May. What was the original word? Uh your original motion was just to approve as drafted. My my only ask is to tie that to the renegotiation of the development agreement.

Should any changes occur with that project, it's ensuring that we have a signed development agreement that's agreed upon by both parties before we give those permits. Okay. Be so we have a motion in a second, but I'd like to find out if there's any uh comment cards. Town clear. Mayor, we have three cards, three speakers. Bart Sheay, Cecil Yates, and Betsy Lavoy. Mayor, Vice Mayor, Council, Town Manager, new attorney met you. Hi. Um, thanks for the the opportunity on it. Um, two things.

One, thank you for the extension application. and we're either going to be partnering with the new group or doing it ourselves here in the next probably 60 days. Um, as far as the development agreement goes, the answer is we've got an estoppel from the town attorney to town saying we've complied with it. So, it's kind of a dead subject and I'm not willing to renegotiate the uh development agreement.

So, if that's going to be a stipulation on it, we can go back and look at the estoppel on it and see what it is. um if we don't extend the permits, it's another 1.5 million out of my pocket to redraw plans again.

So to this to date right now we've had five projects five times this project's been financed and five times since we renegotiated the development agreement before and expired it that we have brought finance to the table and in some way or fashion something always happens with the town to enable us to not get the permits passed. or not get the financing passed. We've had 11 different red lines on the elevations of the plans which took us seven months which killed one of them.

So had a lot of issues with it and they've spent a lot of money about 80 million so far in the town of Fountain Hills morning star phase one and you guys are right on track. You want an entertainment district heads and beds love to see it. Um I did probably Oh, well, in excess of 30 different models to figure out what to put in downtown to make it work to get the entertainment district. And by the way, I tried real hard to get a culinary school here. At one point, offering a free buildout.

We don't have a body here yet to make it happen. The only way you get to that point is with heads and beds. If you put this back down again where you're going to renegotiate it, you're going to go look at it again, you can kiss it goodbye for two years.

That's how long it's going to take to redraw it, fix everything, reestablish everything, and go back to literally doing a start over on a renegotiation of a development agreement that we have an estoppel which has been pulled once and reinstated on it and stuff. So, if the council would like to renegotiate, that's I can't do it. We don't we don't have the time, the effort, or anything else to go do it. Bart, um, Councilman Watts has a question for you. Sure.

I'm going to try and cut to the chase on this. You agreed to the development agreement originally and it has expired and the the estoppel has expired. If there were no changes to the development agreement, would you still honor that agreement that we could move forward? Okay. So, without any changes, you're fine. Absolutely. goes in, we finish off the downtown, we do everything else. Yeah. And the if we do end up selling, I've agreed to stay on and make sure all of that stuff is done.

Are there any other questions from the council for the applicant? I do. Peggy, how can you guarantee what um the buyer or another person is going to say to this? because I'm staying in the deal and they're sitting in the back of the room and they'll come up and tell you they agree. I don't think that you can guarantee for another person on something like this. I really don't. Well, I'm sorry, Council Member McMahon. That was a direct question.

And they're sitting in the back of the room and they'll come up and tell you they'll guarantee it. Again, it's expired agreement. It's not an expired agreement. I have an establish saying it's completed agreement. So, if you'd like to go to litigation on it. God, I knew you were going to say that. No. Mrs. Wright, do you have a comment? Discussion of the actual development agreement is not on the agenda. Correct. Thank you. Thank you, Bart. You know, I do have just one quick question.

When you say you're going to partner with them? Yeah, I'll stay on the deal. I'll stay in the deal. I'll be the face. I'll be here through the entire project. Will you have a financial interest or just an advisory? Talking about leaving a financial interest on the table right now and no matter what. So, I still own the architectural firm. I still have everything to do with this. So, I have to follow it through. It's it's in the contract if they end up closing.

It's not a guarantee that they're going to end up closing this. I rolled this into a finance package. Uh some of you know I've been quite involved with the Catholic Church on on doing if you saw the the business model on it. I'm rolling out five of those projects uh between the end of this year and the beginning of next and I threw the financing for Maricopa who by the way extended my permits um on that project 152 independent assisted living without anything like this.

Um, and I've rolled Park Place into that in finance. So, if they don't close, we will. And And the new people are are ready to go from what I from what I've understood. Yeah, they're they're ready to go right now. Uh, they got a great their partner wants to stay in the deal and wants to be here and be part of Fountain Hills as do they. So, if this is not looking good, so if tonight if we just voted this straight up without any complications, everything's fine.

Then then yeah, we're shovels in the ground and we're we're paying for permits. God, we hope so. But again, we're supposed to drop a quarter point on the interest rates um next month. So hopefully that's that'll stimulate enough of the financing to get going. I had to throw it in because of Fountain Hills and what it is, I had to throw the project into a mix of almost $300 million worth of stuff that we're doing with other people. So, right.

and and it is and is your and your lawyers um s surmise that the esttopple agreement does carry forth the DA and that's what you're willing to litigate. Well, yeah, it literally says that. So, but again, the development agreement isn't on the agenda, right? But I'm I'm just trying to get a clear picture here and I really appreciate your cander and uh just to know what's going on. All they want to do is build a project.

All I want to do is bring Fountain Hills stuff and all we do is argue about it constantly and I want you to build that project. Just so you know. Thank you. Cecil Yates, Betsy Lavoy. Hi again, Cecil Yates, uh 21-year resident, planning and zoning commissioner, council member. Um in fact, uh every year since I've lived here, I've served on some board commission or committed myself to the town. Very excited about this project. Uh for the record, I I left council in 2018.

I ran two different uh development firms. Um, I've known Bart Shea for 18, 19 years. He's built several of my projects with other firms. But I just want to stress I in no way, shape or form had any uh uh connection with BART other than being a council member and help this. So I've had the unique opportunity of being on both sides of the dis having seen what happens on that side as well as on this side. Um, I just want to share with you. So 2016 is when the development agreement was signed.

uh COVID happened and for whatever reason the council would not extend it, let it time out and that caused one finance package left. Um 2023 as as Bart pointed out and again right wrong or indifferent reclaim my time. Go ahead. Thank you. 2023, as Bart pointed out, a normal exchange of plans and review is normally like three, maybe five reviews. We had 12. And we had in our developers agreement that we're supposed to have a third party reviewer to avoid that.

And our third party reviewer told us point up that the staff said, "I don't care. I'm going to review your review." And that in fact timed out. Anyone in in business knows that money doesn't sleep and time kills all deals. So, we lost that deal. Um, this this estoppel agreement is standard in commercial deals and it's nothing more than a landlord or a governing body basically on on print saying yes, you are in compliance.

um we were held hostage and they would not sign that document for another funding unless we had to sign this new amendment and we were brought to that meeting under false pretenses. We're supposed to give an update and the previous administration handed us a document. I was shocked Bart signed it but we needed to close the deal and he signed it. Well need needless to say that financer said we can't move forward on this so they left.

So we used it under the that structure went to the fourth or fifth funder and they looked at that and said we can't fund this either and so we lost that deal.

So, we had to come back to the council and ask, "Guys, we can't do this." And that was a little contentious meeting because respectfully, we kind of had to pull the same thing you guys pulled on us and asked you to meet about why you were encroaching on our property to stage it for the Centennial Circle where you cut our locks and our chain and used our property without our permission. We're good people and we let that happen and we work with staff and that was fine.

But just to share with you where we can reclaim my time. Point is, we're here right now. My god, we're looking at all all options all the time. We've got two financial deals on on the table and we've got a financial partner. This is going to close. But at the end of the day, Council Member Watts, Council Member Brenda Kay, it's pretty much extend the permit so we can get to the end of the year and that's it. Thank you.

Mayor, Vice Mayor, Council, Staff, Betsy Lavoy, Fountain Hills Chamber of Commerce, CEO and President. I did email this to all of you, so if it's repetitive, excuse me, but for everyone else in the audience, on behalf of the Fountain Hills Chamber of Commerce, I express our strong and continued support for the ParkPlace phase two and phase three.

From the very beginning, the chamber has recognized the importance of this project to the economic vitality and quality quality of life in Fountain Hills, and we remain steadfast in our commitment to seeing it through to completion. The Parkplace development represents much more than physical improvements. It's a cornerstone project that supports our community's growth, enhances the vibrancy of our downtown area, and creates meaningful opportunities for both residents and businesses.

With each phase, the development has shown measurable positive impacts. From attracting new investment and creating jobs to strengthening our local economy and fostering a sense of pride in our community. As the Fountain Hills Chamber of Commerce celebrates its 50th year of service to this community, we're proud to stand alongside ParkPlace Development Team.

The successful completion of phase two and phase three will ensure Fountain Hills continues to thrive while honoring the vision we've all supported since day one. We respectfully urge the full consideration and approval of the necessary support for this next phase in the parkplace development. The chamber and our members look forward to the continued transformation this project brings to our downtown, reinforcing Fountain Hills as a premier place to live, to work, to visit, and I'll add to play.

Thank you. Thank you. That's the last speaker. Counselor, uh, let me ask the council if we need a a quick recess into an e session to get any legal advice on this um from our attorney. Is there any need for that? Anybody have any? No. So, we have we had a motion by Hannah. And did we have a second? I second it. I'd still like discussion if I could, please. Go ahead, council person. Thank you, Jerry. Um, I what I would like to propose is the suggested motion that is in our packet.

Just just a clean move to approve uh the request to extend the expiration date of ParkPlace phase two and phase three building permits to December 31st, 2025 and to allow the issuance of the permits and the 2018 codes. Um it's not a long period of time. There's been a lot of drama. There's been a lot of hardship to the town and and to the developer. And at this point, I think it's a pretty reasonable ask to go on faith to tell them that, yeah, we're just unencumbered by any other language.

Let's let's give them this. Let's take it on faith that their arguments are correct because I don't want to go back into court and see who's right and just let's get this thing approved and let's get it built. This this is a vibrant downtown that we've all wanted and it's sitting empty for all these years and generally it's because this council um has been a little uncooperative.

So, you know, I with all due d I guess until we vote on that, but if I were to suggest a motion, it would be straight up what's in the packet and let's just let this thing play out till December 31st. I'll call on Rick in just a second, but I don't know that this council has been uncooperative. I didn't mean to imply that. Okay. No, it's just there's just a history and and and that's the last thing I meant. All right, Councilman Watts. No, you stole my thunder.

That's exactly what I was going to say. It's not this council. And I would support uh the minor changes that council person Lar made. Turn your mic on. You refer to the motion that's on the table from Hannah. Yes. Thank you very much. And I think that is the motion that is suspends basically. Correct. Thank you. So we have a motion to extend And it's seconded by Gail Earl. Councilwoman Earl. Mayor, I show the motion was made by the vice mayor. Oh, I'm sorry. Seconded by council member Larabby.

Larabe. Okay. I'm sorry. I think you clarified it. Amended it. Okay. So, the motion by Councilman Skilicorn, second by Councilwoman Larabe. Um, but she amended it as a correct. the the amended motion was accepted by Allen, so it's still his motion. Oh, okay. Thank you. Okay. Want to make sure. So, it's been amended and accepted. What are we doing here? So, the motion's been amended and accepted by Council Vice Mayor Skilicorn. Uh, thank you.

C, can she repeat that just so we can refresh our memory? Can you please repeat the amended motion? Yes. Pending renegotiation of the development agreement. And if I could asterisk that really fast, that could very potentially mean we take the old agreement and just sign it again. And I would be supportive of that to be very clear. On or before December 31st, staff may approve renewing the ParkPlace permit pursuant to the 2018 building code.

And I I would just like to just re repeat myself to say if that's the motion that we vote on. And point of order, you are not recognized. And and is approved. Point of order. I I did recognize it. I'm sorry. Go ahead. He nodded. Um I I would just like to let this council know just just ahead of time that if we complicate it with the amended motion, I think we're heading to court.

and and and I know it's a it's a valid argument that hey, you know, pending this and we're going to agree on that and take an unfaith like this. I I I think we're going to be in court before we know it and this thing is never going to happen. And and I just want people to know I want to sit here right now and I want to tell you that I I think we should just grant them the what they need. It's a couple months and we'll be done.

Councilman Watts, it it's a technicality, but I asked the applicant point blank, if we if we approve, will you honor the the previous terms and conditions? The answer was yes. There's nothing complex about it. We're going to put it on the table. It's a technicality that we have to do. We'll do it, sign the papers, and move on, and it'll get approved. Simple. I'm gonna allow the applicant to make a statement. I I have a pretty big question now.

So, I'm being asked to put in more money and to go do this. And I have a development agreement that is a stopled and done and I've agreed to everything in it. And nothing has changed on that, but now we want to renegotiate that. But that's that's what the amendment actually says is to renegotiate it. And that's the problem I it doesn't say we're going to continue the as is. We're not going to say we're going to go do it again. It just says we're going to renegotiate it.

I don't have any idea what you're going to renegotiate. I I think it was on the advice of our attorney that we can't discuss the development agreement itself. Okay. So, we're not re the renegotiating may be a poor choice of words. Okay. But that's what the amendment says. So, how do we get around it? By amending it into your motion. Ellen's motion. I'm sorry, council member. by amending it into council member Skiilicorn's motion.

You've automatically brought it into the discussion and you've talked about renegotiating it. So then I'm completely confused if you can't talk about it. How do you amend it into it? Let's hear from the town attorney. So the issue is that the there's concerns regarding the development agreement.

We this is not agendaized on regarding the the the redevelopment agreement but it is not legally possible for us to just approve the permits to be extended because there are issues under the underlying redevelopment or the development agreement does not mean that renegotiating maybe that's a po choice of words I think another word might be um resolving the development agreement and so that that just needs to be resolved because under we can we we don't need to debate this back and forth right Now, nobody's saying we're going to start from scratch on this de there's been no discussion about starting from scratch in this redevelopment agreement, but as written, there are concerns.

We just need to go in and re like basically rejigger the language to have the right dates. No ma'am, then you need to extend this motion right now.

you extend this right now because literally if you're going to go down this path before we get to that point, we need to find out what that negotiation is and all the lawyers can get involved and figure out what an estoppel means or what it means to be in compliance with and how it works and where it goes because you're talking about amending a legal document, a contract that I've signed, which is assignable, which I have a letter from the town of Fountain Hills that says we are in complete compliance with and if you want to renegotiate or do something along those lines.

That's this is just a business. This I I mean I'm not here to get in a political argument about who does what and how it works. But if you guys want to amend things, that's you're amending a contract that we have. I I know everyone says no, we don't want to amend things, but that's what the the actual language says, renegotiate. Mayor, yes.

Might I resolve this by suggesting that we change the motion one more time to change the word from renegotiate to resolve where all we're saying is it's signed again basically then then signed by who? You and the town. So just as it was originally signed what what I am I I I can't discuss it but okay then you need how about I remove the word negotiate now.

No you have to take the you have to have to take it off and either extend my we'll have this conversation about the development agreement tomorrow the next day whenever it is to find out what it is we're trying to resolve because it's a broad statement. What are we resolving? You're you're you're the ones that brought it up. You're the ones that are and this is a big giant space. Council Watts, can we vote on the Can we resolve it by date only and stipulate to that limitation?

We can't even vote on that. It's not agendaized. So, the issue is is that as written without the without the the permit cannot just be extended because we have to resolve this. So, we're trying to give leeway. We're trying to give breathing room to allow your project to move forward by approving today the permit extension but also saying we got to kind of resolve one little item so that the staff is not forced to issue the permit without resolving one little item. It is is no ma'am.

No ma'am we're not going to do it. If that's the case this is a big giant ambush then again because you're trying to resolve something. You didn't let me know about this before we made this application. We're giving you breathing room. No you're not. Mr. Mayor, I'd like to call the question. That ends the discussion. So, the questions been called. Um, we have to vote. We have to vote on that. Second. Question's been called and there's a second. So, there's no more discussion.

Uh, we'll vote on the, uh, the question. Roll call, please. This is to limit the call question. Council Council member Calvianis. No. Council member Watts. It's not agendaized. Yes. Council member Earl. I, Council Member McMahon. I, Council Member Larby. I, Vice Mayor, I'm sorry, Vice Mayor Skellicorn. I, and Mayor Fidel, I, Mayor 6. 61. Oh, I'm sorry. 61. Yeah, there's there's a motion on the Mr.

Mayor, there's a motion on the floor and I I am um the friendly amendment by Councilwoman Larab is fine with me about changing um amend to resolve. We have a motion and a second. Uh roll call, please. Council member McMahon. I. Council member Larby. I. Council member Earl. Hi. Council member Kianakis. Nay. Council member Watts. Hi. Vice Mayor Skilicorn. Hi. And Mayor Fidell. Hi. Mayor 61. Item C is u possible action relating to the ordinance for zoning signs.

Uh Rachel, John, you're not done yet tonight. We're going to discuss the ordinance amendments uh regarding the zoning specific to the sign ordinances. This is something that was uh requested by a number of council members um with feedback that um from planning and zoning. So now it's gone full circle. So we're back here tonight for further discussion and direction. Mayor and council, just quick recap of some history.

Uh back in 2021, the town council approved a significant uh rewrite of the town ordinance sign ordinance to bring it into compliance with the Reed versus Town and Gilbert Supreme Court requirements. Uh from there, it's been amended a couple of times. Uh most recently in October of 2023. At your January uh meeting, the council asked staff to review and revise the sign ordinance. We weren't given any specific direction at that point about what could be or should be considered.

So, we came back at your February 18th meeting. Uh we had some council members uh offer some ideas of things that they thought could be amended or changed in the in the ordinance. From there, we went to the planning zoning commission at May 12th meeting for a general discussion.

Presented to them, the uh items that had been brought up by members of the town council, gave the PNZ commission and staff the or citizens the opportunity to suggest any other changes, comments they would like to see, modifications uh to uh the current ordinance. Uh based on the input we received at that meeting, we went back to the PNZ commission at their August 11th meeting with the revised ordinance. They held a hearing and have made the recommendation that we have for you this evening.

Based on their review, they are proposing three areas for change in the current ordinance. Uh one dealing with A-frame signs, another one dealing with signs for apartment complexes and then election yard signs. So, with regard to A-frame signs, uh they have recommended that the maximum size be increased from six square feet to 8 square feet for an individual sign and that the combined maximum, if they have more than one, be increased from 9 to 11.

Current code allows uh one sign per public entry up to two signs. They've uh proposed that we change this to just two signs per business so that uh we're not looking at entries again uh for that, but each business can have two. And mayor, I'll just go through these unless you want to talk about each one individually.

Another item that we uh recognized as we were working on this uh text amendment is that there are some uh smaller apartment complexes being developed in town uh that by the current code are not allowed either a wall sign or any type of monument sign. And so uh as we noticed that uh issue uh we have included in here uh the uh option if you're a apartment complex between 8 and 20 units in size you can have either a wall sign or a monument sign their choice.

When they're larger than that they can have both those smaller still wouldn't be able to have either. And then finally, with regard to yard signs, uh current code allows two yard signs per residential lot at any time to help uh during election seasons. Uh that would change to four yard signs allowed during the same time period that the state allows uh the political signs. So 71 days prior to election, you could have up to four yard signs.

That returns to just two per yard uh the day after the election. And uh again, this does not impact the uh the signs allowed in the rightway per state statute. So those are the changes that the planning zoning commission has recommended to the sign code. Councilwoman Earl, I'd like to make a motion to move to approve ordinance 25-08. Mayor. Mayor, we're still in public hearing. We're Yeah, we're still in the public hearing. So, we need to know if there's any comment cards, Mayor.

We have one speaker, Jane Schika. [Music] My name is Jean Sucka. I'm a 30-year resident of the town. I'm former town employee in planning and zoning, planning zoning commissioner and signed committee member from 15 years ago. So was Cecil, but he's gone. First paragraph under the purpose of the signed ordinance says we need to protect public health, safety, and welfare.

I would argue that over these years we've shortch changed our residents over the years, but as a resident I'm appreciative of the excellent work done by our planning and zoning department in this exercise and also the planning and zoning commission and they balanced business and residents interests. But I do have reservations amongst what was compiled. Commissioner Gray summed up things really well back in May when he said it is not appropriate to be everything to everyone every time.

With that point in mind, the commission agreed that A-frame signs must not be left out overnight. I agree. Commissioner Gray also said that leaving them out allows laziness, dilapidation, and blowing signs around from nighttime winds. Think of the added dangers of signs in the streets around the sidewalks of our dark sky community. 15 years ago, I was tasked with monitoring adherence to sign regulations. All the concern mentioned above happened.

What's more, when required to bring in the signs nightly, many of the businesses didn't even bother putting them back out, which spoke volumes. Do not overturn the commission's recommendations on this. Secondly, no business needs two A-frame signs except perhaps for those that have two entrances. That's unnecessary clutter and a safety risk. Period. They are a distraction to drivers. Regarding banners, expanding the already excessive allowance is ridiculous.

For one thing, there's no monitoring of content, and secondly, they deteriorate rapidly and reflect badly on our town aesthetics. If there's a special need for extending the timing, football season for example, a simple temporary use permit is readily available. Finally, there is no reason to add two more election signs to make it four per property during election times. I believe there is no restriction to the number of signs in the rightway. So, there's really no need to change the ordinance.

By the way, for too long I've seen signs come up in these meetings over 15 years and with very little input from the residents, we can do better on that in the future. So, I urge the council to adopt the commission's recommendations with only the changes that I suggested. Thank you. That's it. Thank you. Uh I'll close the public hearing and then we can have uh discussion. Uh vice mayor is the have you g it out. All right. I'm ready. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh director Wesley, great job.

I don't have a question for you, though. Uh because you answered it in your presentation. So the one question I had, you answered the presentation. That was fine. Um I did want want to make a motion to approve this. Um you know very minor edit is that I wanted to strike the and um the number two the number of yard signs. Um I wanted to strike the election season. I mean so the our first amendment isn't null and void when election season ends.

So, I I would prefer four signs at any time on on people's property because election season only has to do with the rightway and state law already tells us what to do out right away. Um, but this is their own property and I think the property owners should decide for themselves and I would like to strike the election season from it and uh looking for a second. I'll second that with one clarifying comment. We we do already have a few people in town that post election signs in their windows.

Um or I have I know one person who lives by where my parents once lived that has a big wooden sign that's there all year round. And it really isn't it really isn't an eyesore. And I agree the First Amendment doesn't start and stop during election season. So I'll second that. Yeah, it Well, did you actually have a change? No, sorry. I was just commenting. I'm sorry, Councilwoman McMahon. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

Um, state law regulates election signs in the rightway or um in our yards, etc. um during a certain period of time and um living in a HOA, I went through this with a bunch of other people and looked at the law and it did regulate it. So, I'm not sure if we can have political signs in our yards all the time, but nevertheless, um here we are again. I think what is this the sixth or seventh time and thousands of dollars of staff time looking at the signed ordinance again.

Um it was a perfectly good ordinance. I am just at a loss as to why we keep revisiting it. Um I even the planning and zoning commission initially questioned the need for these revisions. They even they expressed concerns about the potential proliferation of a signs and other signs and the impact of pedestrian safety.

While I do support allowing monument and wall signage for small apartment complexes, I do not agree with the other proposed changes, especially those that would further increase political signage graffiti. As we'll see in the upcoming election, political signs are going to be excessive and saturate our town. and I anticipate that our staff will be flooded with calls and complaints and have to address them to again lots of staff time and pay.

Um I recognize we all have fleet free speech rights but there are limitations on that to a degree and um I think that two signs in the yard political signs during the political period is fine. I think it's reasonable, especially with how many signs we're going to be seeing all over town. So, I don't think it's in the town's best interest to pass this um amendment to the sign ordinance. Thank you, Councilwoman. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Um I I believe I recall when this item was first put on the future agenda that um Councilwoman Earl pointed out that there was two businesses that needed two signs. I think one of them was Grapables and and there was a second business and at that time I suggested possibly a waiver and SUP. Um what's happened since then is this thing has morphed into a two because there was two businesses that needed two signs.

And I do think that if you have a business with two points of access and egress, you should have two signs by right. That's a no-brainer. Um like the old Euro Pizza Cafe, you can go in the front and you can go in the back with the lake. Um but having every business by right having two A-frame signs is, I believe, ridiculous. Um Rush Limbbo, you know, one of my heroes, said he liked to um demonstrate absurdity by being absurd.

And that's why a lot of people loved him because he took things to the extreme. Um, if I can be allowed that adult indulgence tonight. I see Fountain Hills as a town where every business has two A-frame signs in front of their business impeding traffic handicap ADA concerns and every house having four signs in front of their house. That's the O of course it's absurd they're not going to do that, but that's what this mischief could lead to.

I I I would suggest that um the planning and zoning originally got this and like what council member McMahon said and John I think you can confirm they didn't want any changes. Is that correct? Mayor commissioner when we had the discussion back in May 11th they were not in favor of the changes. Yeah I watched that meeting and then they couldn't make the vote that they had to go back and and then it opened the door to make more modifications.

But um you know I I do think that the current sign ordinances is pretty good. I think that we could um help the the few businesses that need that or we can put it in the amendment to this tonight that if there's two separate points of access and egress by right they can put two A-frame signs but this is brushing with a way too broad brushful stroke of the pen. So anyway, I I would I would suggest just keeping what we have with with just minor tweaks.

Uh I'll just weigh in quickly and then I'll go to uh the vice mayor. Uh I think if you're really businessfriendly and development friendly, there are about 20 businesses that have two entries or exits. We need to be supporting those businesses. You heard tonight from our uh finance director that sales are down. I think the every business has every right to make every dollar they can. And I think most businesses will not have two signs.

As you pointed out, it's absurd to but I want them to have the flexibility and the opportunity to make a living in this town. Those signs show engagement and that they're ready to do business with with our residents and out of town people. And those signs aren't necessarily for the residents. They're for the out of town people that come here for whatever events that are happening. It shows that they're ready to engage these people. And then I'll I'll turn over I'll yield.

But again, we could we could accomplish that just just by taking those 20 businesses and and giving giving them that right that they demonstrate the the need that they need to two signs that we could have an approval process for that again without making it by right for every business. I think every business has that right. Um, Vice Mayor, thank you, Mr. Mayor. You know, earlier in this meeting, someone mentioned that less government the better, and I I couldn't agree more.

That that's really where this comes from. And, uh, a couple of statements that were that were made about like code enforcement wasting time. I'm okay instructing code enforcement not to trouble themselves with this. They got more important things to do than count people's yard signs for for God's sake. Uh, the freedom is freedom. I think we should pass this. Councilwoman Larby says, sorry. Um, I heard a comment by a colleague, so I have it.

For the record, I tried to get rid of the sign ordinance and I got yelled at. Anyway, um when we talk about the changes to this regarding the two signs, um admittedly I did have to make a run to the ladies room, so maybe I missed it, but the comment was uh that it would impede traffic. Are the A-frame signs permitted in the roadway, pedestrian traffic? Ah, I I happen to know, you know, most even scooters or wheelchairs are are able to go around an A-frame sign.

Uh but um when when we refer to the sign changes, I I think there is absolutely a level of well number one, yes, less government is better. And number two, most businesses aren't going to block their doorway with their signage. That if they don't believe that they need two two A-frame signs, they're not going to get two A-frame signs. And I take the same opinion on the sign ordinance as I have since I got on this council, unlike some of my uh fellow council members here.

And you know, same with banners, same with A-frame signs. A business isn't going to make their business look bad. Period. Councilwoman Earl. Yeah. I just want to clarify because I I was spoken about a minute ago. Um, I brought this back and it was not for Grapeables or because um, well, actually it was the box meat shop and some other shops that have one o one door entrance yet they're back tucked in uh, where nobody can see them.

So, they'd like to have an A-frame by their business and then also the entrance to the uh, shopping what? The plaza. Thank you. The plaza. So that's why I would not like to restrict this to the number of doors you have. So again, I am going to be supporting this motion as put out by vice mayor. So we have a motion. Do we have a motion yet? Yes. And and a second. Um roll call, please. Council member Watts. I. Council member Calvianis. Nay. Council member Larby. I. Council member McMahon. Nay.

Council member Earl. I. Vice Mayor Skilorn. Scooters have the ability to steer. So I'm a yes. And Mayor Fidell. I. Mayor 52. Thank you. Now we have uh pavement management, Rachel. All right, moving right along. We're going to give John a break and we're going to reintroduce Director Wely back up here. We're going to be talking about our pavement management. Um the pavement that has um we finished in 25.

You guys heard a little bit about that earlier in the earlier presentation, but specifically what we're looking to accomplish in FY26 um and get direction on that. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Council members, we're going to get an update of our condition based on the last analysis and the work that has taken place over the last few years from a roadway asset services uh representative. Uh Zach Thomas is his name. He is a very technical well-informed intelligent man.

Please be sure to ask him questions if you have them. I may not be able to answer all the technical data if you don't ask him now. All right. Thank you, Justin, Mr. Mayor and council, it is an absolute pleasure to be here with you today. Again, my name is Zach Thomasson with Roadway Asset Services. Uh, and today we're going to talk about the fun zone of pavement management. Uh, one of my favorite top uh uh certainly one of my favorite topics.

My children tell me it makes me the world's biggest nerd as well. So, I won't get too technical on you. We're going to stay high level with this. So before we get into the results of the model and what we did with the data that was captured back in 2022, uh let's talk about some terminology so that we're all on the same page. Centerline miles. You folks own and maintain approximately 168 centerline miles of roadway. Imagine yourself walking down the middle of a road.

Any road you walk for one mile. That is one centerline mile of road. Now, if you account for area and number of lanes and width and all of that, you folks maintain approximately 3.5 million square yards uh of pavement. This is a huge asset on the books that you maintain on a daily basis. It's enough pavement to build a small two-lane road from here all the way to Vegas if you so desired.

In terms of replacement, if we think about roads as something on the balance sheet, the replacement value of your road network is approximately 325 million. So again, a huge asset uh that you folks maintain. We're going to talk about PCI score. That's a pavement condition index. It's an index that ranks the health of a road on a 0 to 100 scale. Zero is absolutely terrible turning back to gravel. 100 is a perfectly brand new road that's paved yesterday.

We're going to talk a little bit about preservation activities. You folks do this. Preservation activities are lightweight, cost-effective treatments um that by design are intended to increase the life of a roadway at the absolute lowest cost. And I'll show you how we use those uh here in a bit as well. And then lastly, uh ASMD64, that's simply the rules that we adopt to do the assessment uh to uh assess the roadways and calculate the PCI scores as a part of it.

So what's the purpose of pavement management? The purpose is simple. The purpose is to uh capture and select the right road at the right time with the right treatment and we want to do so so that we lower the cost of roadway ownership over the long term for the taxpayers and for you folks as well. So what you can see here uh roads are really no different than any other asset in our lives as they're in good condition. They are cheaper to maintain.

There are cost-effective lightweight activities that we can apply. So when a road is in good condition at the top of that first line that you see there that that that uh uh degradation curve uh typical preservation activities cost right around $4 a square yard. If we defer down to a mill and overlay where you get down between that poor and fair category it goes upwards of $45 a square yard.

And if you defer again into total reconstruction it's $87 or more per square yard depending on the functional classification um of that roadway. So, think about roads. They're really no different than the cars that you drive. You change the oil, you flush the coolant, not because you enjoy sitting at the dealership on a Saturday morning. You do so because you're attempting to to to lower the cost of ownership for that vehicle.

So, you've made a conscious decision of maintaining it as opposed to swapping the engine every 30,000 miles. Roads are the same. Uh, this is the van. My kids like to call this the Ghostbusters van. It arrived in town. It came through and drove the streets in November of 2022 to capture the condition data. There's a lot of sophisticated technology on it.

High-speed lasers, um, high definitionition cameras, GPS, inertial navigation, a lot of, uh, equipment that's used to do the automated assessment and survey. What you can see here is a sample of some of the imagery on the top there. That's some of the rideway imagery that was captured in the field. We use it for QC purposes, but it can also be leveraged by the town to conduct other roadside asset inventories like signs or sidewalks and curb and gutter, pedestrian curb ramps, and so forth.

Then on the bottom there, that's the meat and potatoes. That's the imagery that's used to conduct the condition assessment that allows us to calculate a PCI score for every segment of road that the town maintains. So, what did we start with? We're starting with the condition data that was captured in November of 2022, and that's what you're seeing here. to run further models to determine how much funding you folks need. We need to age the data.

So, every road in your network is assigned a deterioration curve that we've developed as a part of the pavement management program. So, we age the data and we also give you credit for all the good work that public works has done um over the last several years as well. So, you've gotten credit for all of the mill and overlay work, the microsurfacing, the slurry seals, everything that's been done since that last survey.

So, what you're looking at here, this is the current condition data um uh that's been aged. So, the current network average PCI of your roads is a 66. The backlog that you have is currently just shy of 8%. So, let me put some of that into context. Right now, nationally, what we see in terms of network average PCI scores is between a 65 and a 70. So, your folks are kind of at the lower end of the averages that we typically see.

The percent of good roads can tell us a lot about how an agency has been funding their network over the last 5, 10 or 15 years as well. So you can see 12 12 uh nearly 13% of your network falls into the excellent category which is roads that score above a PCI of an 85. Typically we like to see about 20 to 25% because that tells us if a road network has been adequately funded over the last decade or two. And then the last thing is backlog. So backlog is all the big ticket work.

It's the full reconstruction candidates and the partial reconstruction candidates in town. It's the expensive stuff and it's all those very poor and poor roads uh that you see there on that bar graph on the left hand side. So right now less than 8% of your network falls into that category. That's a wonderful number. So typically I would tell folks less than 10% is financially ideal from a pavement management perspective.

12% is what I call average and manageable with 15% becoming a maximum recommended mark. And that's where us as consultants start to get concerned because as you exceed 15% and start approaching that 20% mark, the backlog can effectively snowball on you faster than you can pump capital into the pavement management program without funding it with some sort of large influx of dollars.

Um, and I say that because if you look at all those marginal and fair roads, you have a lot of roads that are that are at the steepest part of their payment deterioration curve. So, what you're going to see in some of the models that we ran is that your backlog grows over time very quickly, even when you maintain existing PCI scores. Uh so before we get there very quickly um uh we used the full toolbox that town staff has available.

All the tools in their toolbox, the slurry seals, the fog seals, the microsurfacing, the mill and overlays, the full depth reconstructions. We use the actual toolbox that they use in the field along with their costs. So all of the costs have been updated, inflation factors have been updated to run these models so that it is as customized as can be specifically for you folks here in the town of Fountain Hills.

So in terms of how the model works uh very quickly here um one of the first things it does is it looks at things from a financial optimization perspective completely unbiased and all that means is is it looks at the cost of deferral. If we kick the can on doing maintenance or preservation or rehabilitation what is the cost of that deferment? So very sound financial management. After that we bring in sound engineering. So we look at things like pavement type.

Uh weaker roads deteriorate at a more strong at a at a faster rate. Pavement type here your pre-incorporation roads which are roads that are that do not currently meet town design standards uh also deteriorate at a more rapid rate. So they have a higher priority in the system too. Higher volume roads uh art roads u uh first collectors and then local residential roads very textbook pavement management uh from that standpoint.

And then last but not least, we also use condition as a factor to break any tiebreers when prioritizing projects. So let me show you graphically here real quick how that cost of deferment works in the analysis. Very simply, and this is just a general illustration uh for this, but on the x-axis there, you'll see different treatment types that town staff has available throughout the network.

That dollar figure is the cost per square yard to do that particular treatment in today's dollars, no inflation added. So what the payment management system does is it goes through and it calculates that cost to kick in the can. What's the cost of deferral between each treatment category? Very simple basic math. And then lastly, it goes through and identifies all the critical roads, meaning roads that are within two to three points of dropping into the next category.

They're critical because if we don't capture them this year, they defer and they become exponentially more expensive next year. That's how financial optimization works. But we also have to balance it because if you look at things from a pure financial optimization perspective, the full depth reconstructions get the short end of the stick on that. They're never funded.

If you're only looking at financial optimization because the cost of deferral is a big goose egg except for inflation because they're full reconstruction today, they'll be a full reconstruction tomorrow. So pavement management is about a balance of data, financial optimization, sound data using the distress data that's captured in the field along with pavement types that differentiate uh the different design standards within town as well. So let's take a look at some of the model results.

One of the first things we do is we run a fix all analysis. If someone gave you a blank check to go out and fix all roads in like new condition, what would that magic number be? So that means some streets get a mill and overlay, some get a slurry seal, some get a microsurface. Everything gets what it needs. That magic number is just over $64 million to treat everything with what it would need today.

Now, what's interesting about this is your pre-incorporation roads only account for 34% of your network by area. Okay? So only 34% of your network by area. However, the pre-incorporation roads um uh when you look at the fix all analysis represent 67% of the fix all costs. And if we drill uh one item deeper, 65% of this fix all costs are related to pre-inccorporation full reconstruction needs. So these are older roads that have been around a long time that don't meet current design standards.

So let's talk about the models themselves. So this is a series of models that were run. That top line that you see there is the fix all analysis. The bottom is the do nothing just to establish the uh ceiling and floor there. The the lines that I'd like you to focus on, that first one is that baby blue line uh there in the middle. That's your current budget. So that legend says $4.25 million. To be clear, that is your $5 million budget.

We have um uh subtracted 15% for expenses such as engineering and inspection, uh traffic control, um administration costs, things like that. But that's your $5 million budget um uh that you would spend on the roadway network. So the models tell us that over the five-year horizon, you would drop a point from the 66 that you're forecasted at now to a 65 in five years time at that current funding level.

And then the other one there, that copper orange line, depending how it's shown on your screen there, uh that is the steadystate PCI budget, meaning to maintain your existing 66 as 66 as we forecast it today, you'd need about $4.5 million. So just a little more than being spent on the roadway network. And that's assuming the average 66 is an acceptable level of service to you folks. This is another budget graph. Same story, so I'm not going to uh stay here long.

This time you have uh the annual budget each year, the average annual budget each year on the x- axis and that blue line is the trend line where we've run over 10 different models to establish that relationship between funding and the outcome of PCI. So again, you see your budget in that green vertical line. You see the steady state budget in that um orange line there as well of 4.5 million. Then if you look all the way to the right, you see a pink scenario.

This is the steadystate backlog scenario. And what I want to point out is in your budget there of 4.25 million, we know the PCI drops to a 65, but backlog is projected to increase to 17.6% in 5 years. Okay? And even at the steady state PCI budget scenario that maintains you at a 66, backlog still increases to 17%. So, we know right away that maintaining existing PCI does not maintain backlog. It's a split distribution. That's not abnormal.

That happens a lot for folks that have a growing backlog um and an older network as well. So, on the last slide here, this is the backlog budget graph. So, again, we have the annual budget here on the x-axis. This time, that red line is the trend line. So you'll notice if you start at the right hand side of the graph and you scan to the left, as we reduce funding, backlog begins to increase.

So if you were curious, the funding required to maintain existing backlog below that 8% mark is on the order of about $8.3 million per year to maintain backlog. Now the net benefit is that PCI skyrockets to a network average of a 75 as well. That was a lot of information on a long night and I'd be happy to answer any questions you have. Councilman Watts, in one of the early slides, you had $87 as a rehab number and then you use $71 a square yard uh for the calculations. Yeah.

What what's the difference between the 87 and the 71? Sure. Yeah. That 87 is just an average. So the cost to do a full depth reconstruction is different on an arterial road and a collector road and a residential road. So that was just a blended average score there um or a blended average number for illustration purposes. And that average is based upon the the top layers and the the substrate on the varying roads. So sometimes you go deeper, sometimes you go shallower when you rebuild a road.

Is that correct? Right. Yeah. So it's primarily based on pavement type. So, one of the things that we did with the pavement management program is build in the pre-incorporation component. The the the full depth reconstruction on a on a pre-incorporation road is going to be different um than on other roads. Okay. And so my second question is you showed us what it is to hold steady state that $ 8.3 million. What does it take to for us to get ahead of the curve and improve?

Obviously, it's going to take 10 million or so, but can you tell us what that would be to get ahead of it? because we're going to right now we're behind it. Sure. You know, one point every year it looks like. So I would argue I'm going to go back to that slide here real quick. I would argue that that $ 8.3 million a year is getting ahead of it because you're actually keeping backlog below that 10% mark.

So below 10% is typically very financially ideal from a management perspective uh for the network. So I I would argue that is getting ahead of it. If you were able to fund uh the network at that mark, you would keep backlog. you would arrest the growth in backlog and you would also get that big bump in average conditions across the entire town. Thank you, Councilwoman. Thank you. Um, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

I appreciate you explaining about the backlog, but spending $ 8.3 million if we have it just on the backlog, then that is that just addresses the backlog. It doesn't No. So that that that uh that particular scenario that 8.3 million is not dedicated to backlog only. That that 8.3 million funds other activities such as slurry seals and fog seals and preservation and milan overlay. That's the funding required to maintain existing steady state of your backlog.

But of course you get that benefit that big benefit of an increasing PCI score as a part of that. But it funds all activity types in the system. Okay. Um and this is a question for Paul because I don't remember I feel like my um are but what do we have in the fund right now to spend this year? Is it five or four or what is it please? Uh mayor council member McMahon. Uh so uh we have about 11.5 million I believe in the streets fund balance at the current time.

We have uh budgeted about 7.2 million directly out of streets fund. Of that about 5 million for the pavement management program. We also budgeted an additional 5.4 4 million in the uh capital projects fund to be reimbursed from the streets fund. So total budget in the fiscal year 2026 budget for pavement management of $10.4 million. Okay. So but let me let me emphasize on that a little bit before I can see your sounds like a lot of money and this this is kind of a one time thing.

The the Palamino project that's kind of a one-time thing. We've been accumulating money in this fund because we've been uh staff has been recommending to council saying, "Hey, you'd like to do more streets. We can see that we've we received that direction.

Let's put a little bit more of this general fund excess reserve money here in the streets fund." We've done that the last few years where we accumulate and put in another I want to say about $8 million in that fund to allow us to do um to do these types of activities. Okay. We're not going to be able to continue to do that every year unless something falls off, whether we're taking a step back on capital projects or we don't continue to save enough for the lake liner.

There's a lot of different priorities, you know, so that's kind of a onetime thing. Going back to our base budget of what we've done the last few years is about $5 million. Um, and we can only really accomplish that by continuing to put at least some money into the streets fund because we only bring in about $5 million of revenue each year into the streets fun. And right now we're budgeted at a little over 7 million. So we're spending down to $2 million per year of that fun.

And then the amount of money you just said 11 million was does have we already paid for Palamino or does that take 5,000 out and that's what we have less since cut you off. Uh go ahead. Sorry. No, I'm just asking you is that the value that you gave me in the street fund does have we already does that include payment for Palamino? So, if we take 11, we minus five and we're back down to the lower numbers or could you please explain that?

Yeah, mayor, council member, it's it's relatively simple math. We have about 11.5 million today. We're probably going to bring about four and a half to five more million through into the streets fund throughout the rest of this year. So we're right around 16 16 and a half million. Okay, somewhere around there. Then consider all the expenditures. Let's say we spend six million total out of the streets fund for just the streets fund expenditures and we spend another 5 million on pal.

That's 11 million. We'll have five million left over in the fund at year end if we don't do anything else. But you have to account for the revenues coming in next year, right? So then we can we can probably accommodate the $5 million budget or maybe a little bit more without putting any other general fund reserves in there. Okay, that's kind of where we're at at this point. Okay, thanks so much. I appreciate your time. No problem, Paul. Nice try.

So, so the 5 million that we're going to have left over, that includes um Justin Welty's crews for patching, all the maintenance and repairs. So, it's not just it's there's multiple components of whatever that dollar amount is. There's yes, street repairs and there's patching and so on and so forth. Can you break those down a little bit? Yeah. Um Justin might need to jump on this one, but uh out of the 7.2 2 million or so that's budgeted directly out of the streets fund.

About 2.2 million is for the staff street technicians. Um I believe some of the engineering and some of the other public works costs that are directly related to streets. Um there's also some other things that like striping uh cleanups of the streets u some repairs and maintenance throughout the year. So there there's about $2.2 million earmarked directly for those types of non-pavement management type activities. directly for the payment management program where we pay uh a vendor.

Uh typically we've been using Mr. Tanner as our vendor to do a lot of that road work. Um we have $5 million budgeted this year. Last year we had 5 million as well, but we actually just actually came to council to ask for some increases. I think we ended up at like 5.4 million in the budget, but of course that's the maximum we can spend. So I think it was a little bit less than that that we actually spent. Yeah.

I just want to make it clear that it wasn't all going to go to new streets and then retrofitted the streets. Mhm. That didn't make any sense. So, and then um I had one other question and I think I just lost it and it was Let me ask him. Let me ask him a question. Maybe you you'll recover yours. Are there any other significant non-pavement management fees that are paid out of the streets area? Justin, do you have any of that knowledge?

Signs um striping signs like reconstruction of sidewalks as needed related to the streets repairs. It's all streets related, but not the direct pavement management where we work with a consultant or a vendor, a construction vendor to do that type of of stuff. I remember my question. Okay. We have a logistical issue as well because we only have two primary maybe three primary egress ingress roads. We can only get so many people so many contractors in.

What would be the maximum number that you would project from a dollar standpoint that we could support logistically that number of contractors to come in and do the work if we could get them? because really what it comes down to is a lot of small projects as well as large projects. Justin might be better to answer that question. I know for um pavement management, we are considering doing um is it an IFB or an RFP soon?

So, we're going to know more about that because we're going to do a bidding process for some of our pavement management projects as well as Shay Boulevard widening, which it's a widening project, but it's still a streets project. So, we're going to start seeing what kind of interest there is in the construction vendor space pretty soon, I would say, and we could probably talk more about that.

Um, we've we've typically used a cooperative agreement a lot of times for these streets pavement projects, and like I said, we use a marter a lot of times, but shutting down a number of roads could cause chaos in town. We got to be careful of that as well. Thank you. I think that's all we have as far as questions. Are there any uh comment cards? No, mayor. Okay. So, we need a motion. I'm trying to make one. Okay. Oh, what does it say here? Okay.

I move to direct staff to proceed with the streets as identified. Second. Yeah, we have more more discussion. We haven't actually identified those streets yet, so hang tight. I I I trust you. I trust you. I mean, we can do that. Thank you, Zach, for the presentation. Once again, the support that you provide to the staff to help us prepare for tonight is immeasurable.

All of the pretty charts and graphs and numbers and discussions, you spend a few hours in Zoom meetings with Zap, Zach, and his staff. as they bounce back and forth, you start wondering whether or not you could get a job cutting grass somewhere where it's nice and cool because it seems a little less complicated. But we appreciate it. So, what he did was he gave you an update on the condition from where we are currently at. Just the wrong one. Seems our powerpoints are a little bit mixed up.

And let's see what we can do. I had all of these open. All right, here we go. Starting all over And we're back maybe. So, as I was stating earlier before I went searching in the archives for my PowerPoint, Zach gave us an update of where we are currently at and gave you some a general idea based on today's dollar figures and inflation what we would need to maintain the current PCI or the level of service and the fix all and also to some extent maintain and keep control of our backlog.

Keep in mind that when we're putting unit prices together, it's based on current unit prices, invoicing, billing, and a little bit of inflation in there because we are uncertain of what the market is going to be in the coming years, especially over the one to fiveyear horizon. So what we are going to look at now are the roads that were selected by the aforementioned software and try and make some decisions based on what is best.

And I'm going to make some strong recommendations as we go through this. The first slide right here obviously discusses the 2026 street selections and the funding options. But before we get started, in fiscal years 2016 through 2018, the exhibit you see was a lot of paving work. It is now time for us to go back in there and preserve that. Zach explained this by spending a few dollars here. It saves a lot of money in the future.

So in order to do that, we have to make a little bit of an investment and go in and do the preservative seal and the crack fill in this area. And this prolongs the life of the pavement and allows for this uh investment to continue to serve the community. These are programmed projects that are not typically presented to Maron Council, but we want to make sure that you are aware of where at least $400,000 of the money for this year is going.

Now, we're going to move into um last year, we presented to you these streets right here, which are Kim and Scorpion, and explain to you that we were going to do a section of each of these, and then we were going to take the balance of that, and that balance would allow us to complete some other super segments. During that conversation and presentation, it was also noted that we would be returning to these streets and they would be programmed.

So we would now have not only a segment but a super segment or an entire area paved in a short period of time. So for future paving projects the same type of treatment would be applied to this entire section. This is one of those locations. The other one is right here which is around Nicholas and the golf course area. We did a small section of that and then also expressed in order to accomplish another super segment we would need to return at the beginning of this year. This is that one.

Now we're starting to look at the newer projects. And the way you're seeing it is the way it was presented with little to no changes. The exceptions to that is whenever we noted areas where we could include an a larger area, they ran more modeling and allowed us to do a little bit more. So here's a little bit of section right here. This one right here is El Logago. So for the this is the section of Elago that runs between La Montana and Fountain Hills Boulevard.

And the treatment that is being called for here, and Zach explained this earlier, the modeling is based on all the different types of treatments that are available to us based on best pavement management practices. This one is a crack fill and a slurry seal. This right here includes preservative seal and mill and overlay. You'll note that the green line is actually an alley.

Now, keep in mind some of the alleys that you are seeing tonight are the only access to multifamily homes andor the only access to some businesses. This right here is where I'm going to begin to make recommendations. And we're we're talking about Fountain Hills Boulevard. The software pulled a section of Fountain Hills Boulevard between where it intersects with Sawarro and McDow Mountain Road. That's in front of the grade school. This is a relatively wide and long expansive piece of pavement.

In the past, our recommendation would be to the mayor and council when these types of areas are selected that they be deferred and or a different type less expens expensive treatment be considered and then we gives us time to plan to do a super segment. Here's a super segment. Fountain Hills Boulevard from Palisades to McDow Mountain Road to the grade school as a standalone single project. It allows us to create that super segment and one treatment type for that area. Can I ask you a question?

Yes, sir. I don't know if this is the right time or not, but looking at that doing that one segment of Fountain Hills Boulevard, I'm wondering if we could consider replacing that part right now because you just did some really nice patching on that road. Rather than doing just one section, take this and put it into next the next year and do the whole section and maybe do east uh a uh cape and chip seal on uh East Richmond, Mr. Mayor.

And yes, however, I I with a little bit of caveat there because of the length and the width and the projected cost to rebuild Fountain Hills Boulevard between Palisades and the grade school or McDow Mountain Road. It would take likely more than one year so we could get all of the data and facts that we need pulled together and also an estimate for the budget in regards to using some of this year's funding to do a a chip seal with a cape for Richwood uh between Golden Eagle Boulevard and Boulder.

Absolutely, we could consider that. That that is one of our more challenging locations. It's a pre-incorporation road. It gets a considerable amount of traffic um not only for the residential, but it is the delivery route for anybody that's having things delivered to their home. It's the default go-to route. So, we can certainly discuss that as we move forward.

Tonight, we're not going to have the budget numbers for a chip seal with a cake, but we can certainly look into it if that is the consensus of the council. On this Go ahead, sir. Thank you. You're welcome. On this slide, you'll also note there is another alley that is slated for some treatment and then there is a complete rebuild off of Glenbrook down there on the bottom. These are two alleys that are south of Shea that run between Sawarro and basically technology.

These are the primary accesses for several businesses along Sarro andor technology in that area. This is another one of the short segments and again this is the software making selections based on the overall conditions and that was all of them. So wait just a second here. I'm a little bit uncomfortable with that statement. After having had a pretty in-depth discussion, I felt that there was a section of King's Tree on this. Perhaps I need a bigger screen or some glasses.

So, there's a short section of King's Tree here. Kings tree is another one of those roads that are similar to Fountain Hills Boulevard, Sawarro, Palisades where we should really consider those standalone projects. A good example is Palamino. That is a good example of of what we should consider and budget and plan for in the coming years.

Keep in mind that we are not going to just stop doing basic maintenance on any of the roads that are deferred or delayed as part of tonight's discussion or any other discussions that we have moving forward. We will continue to apply some type of treatment andor maintenance to those areas. We are not simply going to give up and just move on.

So having said that, my recommendation to the mayor and council is that we delay or defer King's Tree and we select another area in town that is suitable for a different type of treatment. And we also delay or defer Fountain Hills Boulevard from Saworro north to Mcdow Mountain Road and allow us to plan for these two uh major or one arterial and one collector street.

we can use that allotted funding and we can have some budget numbers in in the in the coming weeks to show you where that money could be used. The mayor noted just earlier that he would like for staff to consider doing a chip seal and a cape on Richwood between Golden Eagle Boulevard and Boulder. So, let's get some clear direction and have a discussion about that and what we could possibly do.

One of the things that we would need to do on Richwood prior to proceeding is we would need to go in and do a a physical evaluation of it. There are areas in there that chip seal in a cape is just not going to help much. Those areas we would need to to saw cut and remove or mill depending on the type and then repave smaller sections especially at lowflow crossings or at corners where there is a considerable amount of turning movements that has an effect on it.

After those sections were repaired then we would do a chip seal and a cape. As a reminder we still have a chip seal and a cape pilot program. Two locations. The first one is on El Lago between Fountain Hills Boulevard and Palisades where we went in. We did the necessary repairs in the travel lanes and in some of the intersections where there's a lot of turning movement. I would like to report that we are having incredible success with that pilot program.

And and the reason I'm referring to it as successful is because it has delayed any additional necessity to add any more funds to it. We were planning on the maybe 5 to sevenyear, but it looks like we're going to be closer to the seven toy year 7 to 10year uh time frame. The primary reason for that is we're not getting any rain. So if if the weather patterns begin to change and we get a little bit of rain, it's subject to change. The other pilot location was on Chama.

On Chama, we had a post post incorporation section and a pre-inccorporation section. We did nothing to either one of those. We simply crack filled and then did a a chip seal with a cape. The post incorporation section is holding out wonderfully. The pre-incorporation looks good until you walk it or you drive on it and then the ride ability is a little bit rougher than we would like.

We use that as lessons learned and would apply the lessons learned from not only Elago but also Chama and apply that to a place like Richwood. So having said that, is there a consensus from the council that we explore the possibility of doing a chip seal with a cape with some repairs on Richwood? With that, it will probably need about probably two or three weeks, possibly a little bit longer to get all of that information and come back to you with a revised budget.

With that, we don't have anything else related to pavement management to present tonight. So, to be clear, we are going to pull King's Tree out. We are going to pull Fountain Hills Boulevard out and and either defer it or delay it, but continue to pro to do maintenance on it and use that funding to accomplish the first priority is going to be Richwood.

And if there's additional funding beyond that, we will pick a couple of other local roads where we can apply that funding that'll benefit that community. All right. Appreciate the time. Vice Mayor, Mr. Mr. Mayor, I do want to echo your thoughts on uh Fountain Hills Boulevard up north. Um there's three concerns I have. One is the cost, two is the recent repairs that would be kind of thrown away. Uh number three is the inconvenience to our uh residents about traffic in it.

You know, just it's just such a big piece of road. So, I'm very concerned about that. And everything else I am supportive of, but that particular one I would not be willing to vote tonight on. like I want to I have to go there and see it kind of touch the grass a little bit before I make a decision on that. So, if we were going to move ahead with recommendation, I would like it tabled or if we recommend everything but Fountain Hills Boulevard, I'm happy with that.

Um but with Fountain Hills Boulevard, I I want to see it and and probably even talk to residents there before moving ahead. just um you know the mayor made a really good point and it's a it's a major artery and I think I think Justin's recommendation is we wait on that one. Am I am I reading you right Mr. Mayor that is correct that we simply delay it. We don't put it off and not doing we're delaying it. Yeah. Just delayed. Yeah.

Then I'm probably okay the consensus I mean King Street is um the councilman's wife want to comment? Okay, Councilwoman Earl, I'm sorry. I was going to reiterate what you said that I I understood you to say we're putting off Fountain Hills Boulevard in that section of King Street and putting those funds towards Richwood the first. Yes, Mr. We won't know what the expense of Richwood is yet. So, are we going to not vote on anything tonight? We're waiting till you come back.

I think we're going to vote on it and then have him bring back the uh budget information on it. Oh, okay. Mr. Mayor, if I may, the preference for staff so we could get moving would be to recognize that we are going to delay or defer King's Tree and Fountain Hills Boulevard and move forward with the balance of the roads that are shown tonight. Correct. I agree. Councilwoman, I would just like to make a motion to reflect that.

So, moving to approve the proposed street plan while deferring or delaying King Street and Fountain Hills Boulevard and diverting those funds to Richwood and another project if possible. Second. Third. Okay, we have a motion and a second and a third. Um, can we can Can I ask Justin a question? Pardon me. May I please ask Justin a question? Sure. Justin, are you okay with that? Um, given your knowledge of the streets and the boss results, etc. Mr. Mayor, uh, council member, yes. Okay.

There's been a considerable amount of concern and calls from the residents in the area of Richwood for several years now. Okay. and and as a less expensive alternative chip seal in a cape is a good way to address some of those concerns and allow for long-term funding scenarios or planning. Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate your input. You're welcome. And I just want to reiterate that director that chip seal um that was done in Chama uh a few years ago, it turned out great.

So I'm really happy with that technology. It has worked out. Okay. Okay. So, we have a motion and a second. Can we get a roll call, please? Council member McMahon. I. Council member Larby. I. Council member Earl. I. Council member Calvianis. I. Council member Watts. I. Vice Mayor Skilorn. Yes. And Mayor Fidell. I. Mayor 70. Thank you. And we'll move on now to item E, which is uh a action relating to uh Golden Eagle empowerment. Uh I guess Justin's up for that again, too. Mr. Mr.

Mayor, council members, we're we're here tonight to ask for the authorization of phase two of the Golden Eagle empoundment project. As part of the FY26 budget approval process, there were green light projects and a yellow and some yellow light projects. The Golden Eagle empoundment is a yellow light project. As I noted earlier tonight when doing the public works update, we have reached substantial completion on that project.

However, because we don't have access to the funding because it's not approved, we can't pay for the balance of that project. It's also important to note that of the $300,000 that are currently budgeted in there, a percentage of that money is going to go to pay for the work that was completed after June 30th. A little background on that. For a project of this size and complexity, it's not uncommon to bridge fiscal years.

As part of that planning process, in our discussions with the town manager and the CFO, we put a placeholder in this year to be able to pay for some of the work if it became necessary in this year. So again, we're asking for the project authorization and to be able to utilize that funding to b pay any debt that was incurred after June 30th of this year. With that, if there are any questions, I'll certainly do my best to answer them. Vice Mayor. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

You know, based on um the CFO Siger's um recommendations earlier about being a little more cautious, especially with the yellow lights. Uh I I would like to slow down a little bit on some of these yellow lights, including this one. So, kind of curious other people's thoughts. Councilman Watts, I'm not so sure we slow down. We if we owe the money well that Yes. Okay. So, we owe the money here.

My question is really how do we these change orders occurred during the course of the construction that occurred last year 25? Correct. Mr. Mayor, council member, that is correct. Okay. And and what's the process for approving the change order? How do how do we approve them and then budget for them and not pay them? I mean, if I'm a contractor, I want assurance that I'm going to be paid. So, how do we do that? It's it's it's I'm going to make it seem as uncomplicated as possible.

So, we entered into a contract with that firm. As part of that, there was a base budget and then there was an owner's allowance. Initially, the owner's allowance, including some unknowns, was included in there. So, for each individual change order that they proposed, they were submitted to the town. We did a comprehensive review. We met, we discussed it, we made adjustments, and then we agreed to it, and they agreed to it. And then that went into a placeholder as part of that budget.

As we reached the end of the fiscal year, we had paid for a majority of those change orders that were taking place as the work was being done. Some of the balance is a small fraction of change orders that were addressed it, but it's really the the rest of the work completed. So, in regards to change orders, there is a vetting process and it's a recorded document that we have in our file folders. We agree to it. Staff secures a separate purchase order for each individual change order.

So, it's also tracked by that. And we pay for that change order after the work is done. So, there's just about $77,000 encumbered for some change orders and additional work where we had unit numbers that were applied during the bid, but the quantities were expanded. A good example is uh square footage of sidewalk or linear footage of safety rail. And so this doesn't have anything to do with any of the retention. This is this is in total the contract plus the change orders.

We still have the retention component to pay at some point in time. Do we have funds for that? So for each pay application, a retention is pulled out and put into a separate account. And so that money is already accounted for in the budgeting and will be available to pay out once they satisfy the punch list and any O andM manuals or any other challenges that we find. Right now there's not any. Thanks. You're welcome.

Councilwoman Larby, I do have just a couple questions for the work that was completed after June 30th. What what is the total amount that is currently due to those contractors for for that work specifically? Uh Mr. Mayor, council member, it's about a little bit more than $300,000 including uh the retainage. So again, the retainage is already spoken for and I don't have the total figure right here.

I worked on it with accounting as we were meeting back and forth with the town manager some weeks ago, but it's about $300,000. Okay. So that um our approval of the capital improvement project of course allows you to then pay that amount, but what is the remaining work on the project because it it shows the fiscal impact as $300,000. So are we just paying the contractor? No, council member, we also are still in design of phase two.

So, we're still paying the engineering firm to complete the design. The phase two documentation, which is primarily the face of the dam or the empoundment, and the debris racks is currently in review by ADWR and the Maricopa County Flood Control District. So, a percentage of that money will go to pay for phase 2 design. And also there's a percentage in there that we owe the project managers for management and inspection. And then the balance will simply remain there.

If we reach all the design then we'll ideally sooner rather than later we'll be able to prepare for the future budget. But also approving this to go this year allows us to begin to submit our reimbursement to the flood control district for the $90,000 grant that we have in there as well. Got it. So, um, for the grant funding, that's really important. Thank you. Um, in that case, I would like to motion to approve authorization of the CIPD6057. I'll second, but I have a question. Go ahead. Okay.

I read in here that there was a leftover 400,000 from last year. So, are we correct? is are we asking so where are we going to have 400,000 plus we want another 300,000 or does that 300 that 4 so we're kind of only asking for another or less than 100,000 so Mr. Mayor, council, we're not asking for any additional funding. We already have $300,000 budgeted for this year.

The balance that was unspent from last year goes back into the capital improvement project fund and will be available for future years. It's not immediately available this year. It'll be available. So, it's kind of a leaprog process. So, that money is currently not available for us to spend out of that project. It's just an unspent fund balance that remains in the bank. Okay. Okay. So, yeah, it's a good second. We're not asking for any additional funding. So, it's really Paul's fault.

Nobody's at fault here except for me if there's any fault to be pointed at. Coun Councilwoman Larby. Sorry. Oh, okay. All right. So, um having said all that, are there any uh comment cards down there? No, mayor. No. Okay. So, we have a motion and a second. Can we get a roll call, please? Council member McMahon, I. Council member Larabby, I. Council member Earl, I. Council member Calibianis, I. Council member Watts, I. Vice Mayor Skilicorn, yes. And Mayor Fidell, I. Mayor 70. Thank you.

And then we've got uh I think Justin, you're up again for uh top leaf services. Mr. Mayor, council members, this next agenda item is directly related to wash maintenance. As you'll recall, we've been before the council several times over the last few years asking for and being approved for funding. We last year had $350,000, but as of the bud as part of the budget discussions and approval process for this year, the mayor and council increased the wash maintenance budget to $450,000.

This is where the challenge comes in. The contract that we currently have is capped at $350,000 annually. Also, the contract and its term limit is not beneficial. So, what we are here to ask for tonight in regards to the amendment are two things. One, increase the amount to $450,000 and also revise the term dates to start on July 1 and end on June 30th. and that gives staff a better opportunity to utilize all of that funding during a fiscal year.

I made it seem a little bit more complicated, especially given the number of conversations I've had with the town manager and our procurement officer and and Paul. So, it's it's really just we're trying to streamline it here and have the authority because currently we can't start any work because the contract has reached its maximum dollar amount until it's amended. Are you ready for questions then? I think yes sir I am. So, uh I'm in favor of this.

I think the wash maintenance is really important to get on and uh with that I'll uh ask the vice mayor if he has a question. Yeah, I just want to say I'm supportive. I mean, the reduction in fire, the um debris, the um you know, habitat for wild animals and things like that, it it it's it's all beneficial to people in town. So, um I am in support of this and I'll make a motion to um to approve as drafted. I'll second that.

Councilman Watts, Justin, I'm If we were at 350 last year and you asked for another 140, that's 490. Are you shortch changing yourself and should you be at 490 or 500 this year so you don't have to come back to us anticipating that there'll be equal or greater amount of work to be done? Mr. Mayor, council member, the budget that council approved was 450,000. We're not asking for any additional funding.

We're just simply asking for a contract amendment to include that funding to $450,000 a year and change the term limit from July through June. But are we going to run into that same thing where we're not going to have enough funds at the end of the year considering that you came back for the 140 on top of the 350 last year? No, sir. We're not going to have any issues. The the $450,000 are going to allow us to proceed and make good progress in the coming years. Okay. Thanks.

So, we have a motion and a second. Do we have any comment cards? No, mayor. Okay. Um, can we get a roll call vote, please? Council member Earl, I. Council member Larby, I. Council member McMahon, I. Council member Calivian, I. Council member Watts, I. Vice Mayor Skilorn, yes. And Mayor Fidell, I. Mayor 70. Thank you. Okay. The next item G is uh possible action relating to the ratification of the town attorney contract.

Rachel uh mayor, this was at the request of uh several council members um to review and ratify the contract that was directed u back in June. So at that June meeting um I was directed to fulfill the contract, proceed with negotiating that and executing a contract for legal services um with Tim Lot's firm. We have done so. That for that contract has been executed. It's here before you tonight for ratification as it exceeds my current authorization level.

Councilwoman Larby, I'd like to motion to approve the ratification of the town attorney contract effective July 1st, 2025. I'll second that and comment. Councilwoman McMahon, thank you very much. Um we recently went through a strict procurement process and a and interviewing different law firms to apply for um the attorney position.

And during that time I did have some numerous concerns and questions um about the vacancy, the process and ultimate selection that still to this day remain un unressed. I formally requested that we postpone the procurement interviews and hiring till we secured independent temporary legal counsel to oversee and ensure the integrity of the selection. However, this request was denied or ignored.

Um I you know given a few things that happened during this procurement process I have really grave concerns that this was orchestrated to fire Pierce Coleman and hire the current law firm. And one a couple reasons why I say that is because um there were some emails exchanged between um Mrs. Wright and Loda um about and having them submit of um their resumes before there was any formal opening of the position.

Um there was also a um personal unprofessional my opinion audit um submitted by Gail Earl in an e session um that um accused Pierce Coleman of over billing under a flat fee contract. Um to me this is suspicious along with the related communications and none of these communications or these were disclosed to me prior to the e session.

Um, also during the e session, um, Aaron Arson was available, um, and waiting to be asked to come into the e session to defend his contract and his billable time and billing, but the mayor did not allow him to do this. And I and I think that is really unprofessional. Um during the interview process, um I listened to the different law firms that applied and I personally think that um this firm is one of the the lesser qualified without direct municipal um representation experience. Um Mr.

Loda filed two previous failed lawsuits against the town as well. when he represented ROT trying to blame the our court clerk for um um a mistake that rot made. The court found to a strict compliance statute. Um even some of the council sided with him on that which was very surprising. He also represented um Skilicorn in a frivolous lawsuit against town and me and three other council members. This case was also dismissed and the judge commented overseeing the case admonished Mr.

Loda for sloppy pleadings and critical legal cases that did he's he cited that did not support his arguments. Um further skillicorn did not participate in the folk procurement process. He only showed up when the interview involved Loda and Mrs. right, which to me is suspicious and I don't think that um he should have been allowed to um vote during the process.

Um in addition, the this contract that we're looking at supporting is the same or similar professional attorney services contract that was previously criticized for allowing over billing. It's now being used to hire um new legal counsel. And while the their proposed fee in my opinion may seem to be lower than Pierce Coleman's, it's not because they're allowed to add additional fees, costs, and expenses. So, it isn't a flat fee contract like the Piers Coleman was.

you know, um, in my estimation and based on the interviews, there was a larger law firm with a heck of a lot more professional experience than the one being hired. And I think it's unfortunate they weren't hired. You know, for these reasons and more just the suspicious nature, my opinion of how this came down, I'm not going to be voting to approve or ratify the contract.

Um, based on my legal knowledge and experience working with attorneys and legal staff, I do not believe this decision is in the town's interests and I think we can and should do much better. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, Councilwoman Larby, I believe council council member Calpianis was ahead of me. Councilwoman. Yeah, thank thank you. Um, yeah, I won't belabor the fact. Um, I do share a lot of Peggy's concerns about this contract.

Uh, I I do also find it suspicious that the attorney that was hired by Reclaim Our Town to sue this town and the law firm that was hired to file a federal court case against me and three other council members by um, Council Member Skilicorn was hired to represent the town. I just think it's a hell of a coincidence of the thousands of firms in Arizona that this is the one that was the best suit suited for this council.

Um, that being said, this has been widely reported in the Republic and the Fountain Hills Times on radio talk shows and and a lot of other things.

And it just leaves me with with one question um that I would like to answer and and I think you got the votes and I will probably vote against this on principle, but um it was reported in the newspaper that um when Gail Earl initiated her audit um the 10 days later that the Lorta law firm um sent a uh a fee structure and a resume to to Gail, not to the town even though an RFP had not been issued.

Um, obviously if you're going to represent a town, you know what an RFP is and you know when it's appropriate. It's appropriate when a town issues when they're when they're looking for a lawyer. That didn't happen in this case. So, it it does lend itself to suspicion, but it was reported that Gail didn't ask you to send that. So, my question to you is who who initiated this? Um, who asked you to send the RFP and the fee structure in the first place?

Um, I sorry I didn't realize I'd be taking questions during this period. Well, you're on the agenda. So, could you answer my question? Who asked me to send it? I was aware that there was concerns that with the council. So, I thought that I sent it. I mean, I'm not quite sure. Nobody asked me to send it. I So, so even though an RFP wasn't issued, you just took it upon yourself to send this to a council member. Sure. Yes. Also, point of order, any question should be through the mayor.

Yeah, I I Yeah, that should be through the mayor, first of all. And secondly, I don't think it's unusual. I think we get resumes all the time. I had somebody send me a resume for a job here in town. It happens all the time. I don't think that's uncommon. We didn't do and we didn't do an R RFP. And also I want to make note that Peggy mentioned something that the mayor did not allow Aaron in the executive session. Aaron had plenty of opportunity to defend himself. He chose not to.

So let's get that on the record. Why did he leave? The mayor had nothing to do with him not showing up for the council meeting and had nothing to do with him not showing up to the next executive session. You were running that meeting, right, council member? You are not. You were running that meeting. Let me finish. And that's why he left. No, that's not why he left. He wasn't asking. Point of order. We cannot be doing back and forth. Point of order. I believe I believe I have the floor.

That's not a point of order. You're done. I I would just like to point out that we have two attorneys in this town. One is a town attorney and one is a town prosecutor. And it's my suspicion that the same tech tactic will be used to get rid of the town prosecutor and be replaced by this council. And I just want to go on record right now. That's not on the agenda. That's not on the agenda right now. Put it on. That is not on the agenda. We are not discussing the town prosecutor.

He's not on the agenda. Thank you. He will. He will. That's enough. Councilman Councilman Watts. What I' I'd like to just point out one thing and that is we went through a full disclosure a full publishing of the RFP criteria. We got responses from four firms. We had extensive interaction with those four firms in executive session and we picked what we thought was the best qualified firm that fit the town's needs.

not individual needs, but the town's needs as an over overview of what the town voters voted for, which was a more conservative approach. There was nothing underhanded about whatever went on. It was all above board. It was published. There was any g ample opportunity for people to respond. They chose not to. And the respondents, we interviewed each one of them above board. All of that was detailed. I I think it's ridiculous that something underhanded has been alluded to here.

Councilwoman Earl, I would like it to be known that Aaron filed documents with the Arizona Corporation Commission to form his new firm on March 21, 2025. That was well before he had the opportunity to come into the executive session and defend himself. He had intended to start his own firm and leave. So stop blaming me and trying to say that I tried to get him fired. That is not true. And he never informed the council that he was doing that. Councilwoman Larby. Thank you.

Uh my fellow council members have a bad tendency to beat a dead horse, but the attorney issue for a quick review came from council member Earl going through the contract for that attorney and looking at whether or not originally we had audited it as was stipulated in that contract. We had not audited it. She took it upon herself to go over these invoices as is the regular work of a council member. If you're going through contracts as is it's something I promised when I ran.

It's something Gail promised when she ran and she's living up to that. The the other part of this that needs to be really clear is this was fully communicated to the council. We had an executive session regarding that audit. in that we were permitted to discuss her numbers and look at them thoroughly. There was even an opportunity to schedule another executive session because we were approaching the time of the meeting for Aaron to come in and defend himself.

Our previous attorney, he chose not to do that. He was not fired. He quit on his own and from what I understand in a very explosive and unprofessional manner. Later, a statement was sent to our paper that called out Councilwoman Earl personally. Absolutely unacceptable, unprofessional behavior, as we have seen once again tonight by my fellow council members.

Now, perhaps if the existing rules of our council procedure to not personally call out council members were respected or if simple meeting procedure was often followed, I would be more interested in my colleagues input when it comes to our legal representation. But considering their behavior consistently, especially over the last two years, I have zero interest in continuing this conversation. Boy, oh boy. If that's not out of line, I don't know what is. You just contradicted yourself as usual.

I don't I don't think you were recognized by the chair, as far as as far I'm responding. You were not recognized by the chair. Would you stop with that kind of behavior? Would you stop with your kind of condemning behavior? Point of order. We cannot be going back and forth and speaking out of turn. This is complete. I This is a point of order. Hannah, that's let it go. Town clerk, are there any are there any comment cards? Yes, mayor. We received two cards.

One was um in support of the ratification. The speaker is not present. We have one speaker, Larry Meyers. Ah, yes. Greetings. Did you miss me? Probably not. So, social media and our newspaper is filled with the nonsense from the left.

same nonsense that's occurring on the deis that is indefensible regarding the information surrounding the issue of the new town attorney replacing the former firm Pierce Coleman and Aaron Aronson while submersed in a stew of rot and rot supported government officials creating divisiveness in the town. The real truth is that the divisiveness began long before rot.

It began with the Dicki supported website, The Real Cecil Yates, during her 2018 run for mayor, filled with so many lies and misinformation that it was eventually forced off the web by a lawsuit. But I digress. I just thought the town needed to be reminded of this since some are new to the fray and this was long before the formation of the evil rot. But back to Aronson and the real facts. The only one only needs to examine the highlights of his tenure.

Every one of his actions from the beginning of the previous administration's left-leanings proved actions against the well-being of the and desires of the majority of the Fountain Hills residents. Hence the vote. Let's start with the residential detox or misnamed sober living. Recall the years of fighting to support proliferation of these facilities with high occupancy in Fountain Hills neighborhoods at the behest of Dicki and her cohorts.

Who wouldn't want a home packed full of drug addicts next to them in their peaceful Fountain Hills neighborhood? Moving on to the wireless broadband antenna in the residential rightway put otherwise in front of your house. He consulted with a California attorney who was nothing more than a tower lease salesman. He collaborated with Crown Castle, the tower firm of choice by big telecoms.

Then when forced to hire a real attorney to protect the residents, he refused to make available the very ordinance created by them, hiding it from our own PNZ for over a year. An ordinance four years later we still don't have. Thank you very much. ignoring the good work of a very, very smart resident.

And who could forget the perfectly valid and provable ethics complaints against Dicki and her chums that he maneuvered into dismissal while making sure those much vagger and less egregious by opponents stick and carried severe sanctions for a full year. Does anyone know that Aaron Aronson, I think you do now, that Gail brought it up, formed his own firm 45 days before his resignation and in a childlike council meeting boycott. True fact. Good riddens, I say. I would like to have 15 more seconds.

I'll make a motion to approve that. To the evil rot government officials on the deis I say confirm Jennifer Wright and the Lakota law firm contract. To the right and Lakota law firm I say administer advice according to the written law not as anyone directs you to. And to the residents of Fountain Hills, I say vote and vote to maintain your clear-cut majority so that the dark days are behind us in this town. And most definitely read the ramblings of the new Dicki supported flourish pack.

Then blow your nose with the content. Flush it down the toilet. You will much object to this. I I am constantly gave down inter interrupted and and you tell me shut up Brenda you can't speak out of order and your friends can get up here and speak. You're out of order. You you gave down a motion was made to amend the A motion was made a meant to amend the rules. You're out of order and you're a tyrant. Do you need to be escorted out?

I'll have the deputy escort you out if there's one more interruption. Are there any other speakers? Coun? No, mayor. Thank you. Do we have a motion? [Music] Mayor, we have a motion. A second. Okay. Roll call, please. Council member McMahon, nay. Council member Larby, I. Council member Earl, I. Council me Calivian, nay. Council member Watts, I. Vice Mayor Skellicorn, yes. And Mayor Fidell, I'm going to explain my vote. This is the third time we've seen this contract come up. We had it in the RFP.

We had it in on a previous agenda item and nothing was said by council person Khali Vianakis or McMahon. I'm an I. Thank you. Mayor 52. Moving on to item H, uh, discussion and possible action relating to the travel policy. Rachel, mayor and council, you might remember this item was also on our June 17th agenda. It was tabled that um indicates that it will be back on our next agenda which is tonight. Um this is related to the recommendations and the request brought forth by council.

This me this policy um was drafted based on those directions. However, I know there was additional feedback and other concerns. Um the policies back before you tonight for any other follow-up directions um are here. Paul has been sort of spearheading this draft, but we're open to any amendments or changes you guys might have. Um, I think I think Rachel said it all, mayor and council really. Um, we we had a draft in place. It was discussed at length at the June 17th meeting. It was tabled.

So, we're here reconsidering the the draft that was presented originally. Councilman Watts, I think the only thing that in in spirit I think I agree with the majority of it, but I think that the one thing I disagree with is 50 miles in one direction. If it's 50 miles round trip, that's one thing. But I much like the stipen, which isn't here, and I shouldn't talk about, but I'm going to. It's, you know, I I knew what I was getting into when I ran for here. I knew what the stipen was.

I knew what it entailed and I would be incurring my own expenses based on the stipen in town, but I didn't say I was going to be a lobbyist and travel all over the place. So, I think 50 miles round trip is more appropriate than 50 miles in one direction. Councilwoman Earl. Um, yes. I want to address a few things in here and I know before we talked about this um was before I went and to the Arizona League of Cities and Towns uh the conference. I've changed my uh stance on that.

So I do see the benefit of being able to stay at the uh conference. It it wasn't that far. I mean, it was a 30-minute drive each way, but it it was a bit difficult being there 12 hours a day, and I would have liked to have, you know, anyway. So, I'm changing that. I would like to actually see the reimbursement for instead of putting a mileage limit to um any anywhere outside of the Fountain Hills um outside of Fountain Hills boundaries.

So, I know the conference will always be it's going to be somewhere where they can hold a lot of people. So, it's never going to be in Fountain Hills. It's never going to be close by, but I'm looking at that and I don't see any other time that anyone on this council would go be staying at any kind of a hotel for that. The other thing I would like to see is the mileage to be reimbursed based on in here it says the most direct route uh from the point of departure.

But what we've been doing and I'd like to see that in here is from town hall is what we've done before. So I think that wording should be in there. Then the third thing I want to make sure that it's um very clear in here that we do not pay for anybody's spouse or boyfriend, girlfriend, whoever that they are bringing with them. that they should not be partaking in the classes if they didn't weren't paid for.

And I'm not sure if there's an extra expense for them to be in the hotel room that should not be included either. Councilwoman McMahon, thank you very much. Does this um what about the staff policy? Wouldn't it be easier if we just said to um match the staff pol travel policy? Um isn't this pretty same and similar to that one or are there a lot of changes in it? I mean the the version that has been put forth for the council is a bit more restrictive than the staff policy.

So if the council would like to model the staff one, we can certainly do that. um the staff, you know, we do have a policy written. And again, I I'll reiterate exactly what Council Member Earl said. It's they're the conference is once a year. There's not generally overnight stays outside of that. There are other meetings that people attend, whether they're with MAG or Valley Metro or things like that, GPEC.

Um so that reimbursement for mileage is, you know, kind of the only other outstanding element in that in that conversation. So if if the council would like to just model after what the staff policy is, we c certainly can do that. Um I think that would be the simplest thing to do. Um because then we're all in concert. The staff knows the rules and there's nothing really different about it and it recognizes that we are all professional people sitting up here representing the town.

Um, we do travel outside of town and use our personal vehicles and I don't think requesting mileage has been abused. I mean, personally for me personally, I'm not going to request mileage to go to Scottsdale. So, I went one way, the other way. And I really enjoyed going to the conference, being able to stay there. Like Gail earlier said, it's really convenient to do that.

Um, I think it would be much easier for us and staff to veer yours and um, instead of saying any mileage restriction and just say that when we're on traveling and when we're conducting and traveling for town business. I mean, that's usually when we only request mileage. We don't request it while we're in town. And um, I know that that's not allowed. So, I guess I'm asking to just simplify this and just mirror the staffs so we're all on the same page. I make a motion in that effect.

Councilwoman Larby, I'm I'm not necessarily opposed to your proposal. However, if I could please get bullet points of what that what matching the staff policy would look like. What is the um boundary is that saying outside of town is it what is the boundary for the staff policy? Sure. Yeah. U mayor council councilwoman Larby um the the policies are very similar. The main difference is going to be the distance limitation that was added at the direction of of council in the spring.

So the 50 miles was added to this draft. The only um so we're talking about three main categories of reimbursement. Mileage, meals, and lodging. In the staff travel policy, there is a limitation on meals only. And that is you have to be outside of Maricopa County um to to qualify for that. for lodging and for mileage, you're able to get reimbursed. Okay.

I'm I'm sorry to my fellow council member, but I I'm not supportive of just marrying the staff one only because not that anyone on this council would do so. However, the reason that we are passing a travel policy is also for just setting the boundary for future council members for, you know, 20, 30 years from now, I think there needs to be standards set.

And should someone say, well, I travel to town hall, you know, once every two weeks, and that's a mile or two, I I just don't want to open the door to that. So, I would prefer that we go with what council member Earl suggested saying outside of the town boundary, not including meal um reimbursement, but still keeping the lodging reimbursement. Um, I I love that we have a, you know, a great policy for staff, but I think council deserves more boundaries because I like restricting the government.

Council person. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, yeah, I too would support um, council members Earls um, barring it for inside the the town of Fountain Hills, but but allowing it to go to conferences and to attend regional meetings. Um, I I pulled this up and, you know, providing city council members with compensation for mileage reimbursement is a widely considered legitimate practice.

It's often essential in an ethical way to ensure that public service is accessible to individuals from all economic backgrounds. It encourages broader participation and it removes the financial barriers for community members who may not be wealthy enough to absorb the cost of fuel, vehicle maintenance and insurance etc. This allows for a more diverse group of people to serve their community. Um mileage reimbursement uh is should be encouraged in in business and school districts and government.

It ensures council members are not taking a loss by using their personal vehicles for legitimate city business and incentivizes work travel business. It covers the cost of travel to attend city functions and all the other functions that are commensurate with the duties of the city council.

And so it's it's again to me it's just good public policy um to encourage your city council people to go to the regional meetings and anything that would deem e either education or to attend meetings with MAG the league and that that sort of thing. It discourages that that sort of um it deincentivizes people to do anything other than just come to city council meetings. So I think I think Gails was amendment was wise and I would support that. Vice Mayor. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

And I think that there should be point out that there's a distinction between an employee and an elected official. An employee goes to a conference or an event or a meeting under the uh discretion of their supervisor. They're told to go there. it's part of their job duties to perform that and do that. Uh so it's wholly appropriate to reimburse that person if they have to use their personal vehicle.

Now we do forget that there are town vehicles here that they can use and we can use uh but just in that in that case there is a there's a very distinctive difference between an employee who is told to go to an event or an elected official who chooses to go to an event. There's a big difference there and that's why the policies are different. Uh I you know and I do want to point out there are town vehicles.

So the argument that if people don't have I mean people don't have the fiscal resources to go driving around. Uh I I get that right but there is a town vehicle that is available to any elected official that wants to go to one of these. Heck maybe we should carpool to save resources too. That'd be a great idea. It would also help save the environment. But this is not about just restricting uh going to conferences. That's that's a good thing. We want to encourage that, right?

It's about discouraging taxpayer funded vacations and that's all. Councilwoman Larby, before we vote, I have one clarifying question for the travel policy. Um, as as amended by Councilwoman Earl, should we approve that motion? I want to clarify. We would not be purchasing tickets for spouses or special friends. Right. It's in there. Okay. Was that in the motion? Thank you. Oh, it's in the document. Okay. Perfect. Thank you. Okay. Perfect. Thank you, Councilman Watts.

And I also agree with Council Member Earl. Um I I I disagree with Vice Mayor Skellicorn though that my salespeople would go to various events whether they were uh conferences whether they were meet and greets to make new contacts. What we did at the league was amazingly valuable meeting people. We got rid of our lobbyist and I I was a supporter of that but we become the lobbyist. we becomes the point of contact.

We become the salespeople out there selling the benefits to the town and for that I think it's re reasonable because I don't think there's been any abuse and it was once said that is this an issue looking for a problem.

So if we say outside the town proper the reasonable mileage if nobody's taking advantage but I don't really want to drive down to GPE 32 miles one way and it sounds trit but even you know 30 bucks 40 bucks for the the cost of going down there so I think it's reasonable to just do whatever the um town policies are for staff outside the town we're fine and I'll support her her motion. So, Councilwoman, if we did not have a second on Peggy's motion, then can I make a motion? Yes.

So, I make a motion to She did, but nobody seconded hers. So, I I guess I didn't make a motion. So I will make it as a motion to accept this policy with changing. Let me see. It's under allowable and reimbursement expenses three. Oh, personal vehicles reimbursement outside of Fountain Hills proper as you said. And then also um mileage number V mileage to be reimbursed from town hall as the starting point because that's I've been told up to this point.

So I just thought that should be ordered in there and then also excuse me that if we leave from our home that mean then we don't come right. Well but she did I've been told we you always have to do it from town hall. Okay. That's what we've just used town hall as a starting and finishing point for consistency sake. Okay. That's okay. And then on three lodging a well all of those under there anything outside of the boundaries of Fountain Hills in in lie of 50 miles. Those three that's my motion.

I second. Okay. Motion and a second. U can we get a roll call? Oh no. I'm sorry. Are there any comment cards? RO cards. Cards. Okay. Can we get a roll call, please? Council member Calivianis, I. Council member Larabby, I. Council member Earl, I. Council, Council Member McMahon, I. Council member Watts, I. Vice Mayor Skellicorn, may. And Mayor Fidell, I. Mayor 61. Thank you. and we have uh council discussion and direction to the town manager.

Given that there was no public comment tonight on any items, I don't have any items noted for followup, which is very, very rare. Town clerk, do you have something? Oh, okay. Vice Mayor. Oh, okay. So, we'll move on to future agenda items. Vice Mayor, thank you for acknowledging, Mr. Mayor. Uh, I did actually wanted to have two. Uh, one is I would uh love to conify uh the president's uh EO on English as a primary language. If we can get some seconds. Second, [Music] whatever.

And uh the second one is that uh I would like to it's considering uh back in June of 24 Supreme Court struck down the uh uh regulations about grants pass and having the pay for uh beds for homeless. Uh I would like to dive into our vagrancy ordinance uh and and result of that. I believe we have that agendaized for the first meeting in October. So just as a heads up. Okay. Sorry, Councilwoman Larby.

Um, this would likely not be an immediate agenda item, but because there is a new sheriff in town, um, I would like to bring back my um, and I'm sorry, I'm going to make Rachel's ears bleed. I I talk about this all the time, the noise ordinance. Um it was alerted to me by uh previous comments by actually council member Watts today regarding um specific decibb for downtown.

I would really like to look at the noise ordinance, see if we can tie that to an objective standard and I'd like to see if maybe our new sheriff is more amicable to that. Um I I understand there were concerns regarding uh prosecution. you know, if they're under 0.1 dB, they're more likely to argue it. But I I would really like to look into that still just to have that objective standard and perhaps we figure out a range or something to that effect. What do we I wasn't listening.

Isn't she asking for instead of being Yeah, using the the decibel reader makes it nonsense. Okay, I'll second. U just for follow-up purposes, um Council Member Larby, do you you mentioned you're not that this is a an item, but it's not necessarily a um immediate item. Can you give us some leeway to coordinate that with the sheriff and his schedule and whatnot? Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. So, I don't expect that to be next meeting or anything like that. Okay.

We'll work with his schedule and and figure out when the when we can make that happen. Thank you. Hearing anything else, can we get a motion to adjourn? Second. Anybody? You want to stay here all night? Gail Earl, I don't know. I'll second it. I don't care. All in favor? I motion meeting ajourn.