Commission Narrowly Approves Residential Conversion of Vacant Office Building in C3 Zone; Noise and Spot-Zoning Concerns Unresolved

e e e commissioner is ready all right let's go ahead and call this meeting to order uh if you would all please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance and a moment of silence States thank you Paul a roll call please commissioner Corey here commissioner depa here commissioner kovic here commissioner schosberg here commissioner seum here Vice chair Watts here chairman gray here thank you Paula uh agenda item three call to the public any open speaker cards Paula no chair thank you quickly on to four consideration of possible action to approve the meeting minutes from July 8th 2024 Commissioners any discussion or a motion please I'll move to approve as submitted second moved and seconded all in favor I 7 Z thank you number five hold a public hearing and consideration with possible action on a special use permit for a property at 125 North Panorama to allow residential use in a commercially zoned property Mr Wesley your presentation please yes Commissioners good evening good to see you this evening oops didn't want to move through it that fast so the request this evening is for consideration uh of a possible allowance special use permit for residential in C3 Zone it's a little background uh the property uh area is Zone C3 it was planted in 1973 Lots developed in the late 80s Uh current office building on the site with 12 Suites it's been vac for a few years new Property Owners requesting residential use of the building as the commission is aware the C3 zoning District does not allow uh for residential uses by right options include either rezoning to a residential multif family Zone that would allow it or requesting the special use permit and that's the option that the property owner has chosen so here you can see the map with the uh lot highlighted and the zoning around the area so all the immediate area is Zone C3 but you go a little further out either across Theo or to the east uh down by the the wash and there is some multif family in those locations land uses in the area uh you can see on the map a lot of commercial outdoor storage uh rather intense type of commercial activities going on in the immediate area General plan uh for the area uh does look for a variety of housing options uh in town uh you can I don't w't read all these statements to you but uh we are looking for a mix of different types of residential to occur in different areas of the Town also looking for that mix of residential unemployment commercial uses and the specific character area it really anticipates a mix of non-residential uses section 2.02 f1d of the zoning ordinance sets out the criteria for the commission to consider uh for uh a special use permit and underlying piece is the uh parts that the commission is specifically tasked to looking at and making a recommendation we'll go through each of those here briefly so first of all will the proposed use be detrimental to the public health safety peace comfort of the neighborhood so uh reuse of these buildings for residential uses is not likely to have a detriment impact on the health safety of PE uh people living in the neighborhood there aren't any immediate residential neighbors of this but but they're not likely to have an impact on them but there's uh potential for them having an impact this we'll talk about a more in a minute on those working in the neighborhood well residential use of this property be detrimental or injurious to the current commercial property uh improvements so as noted with the land use around this area with the auto repairs the storage the commercial activities or construction type activities those particular types of commercial activities can generate a lot of noise dust dirt activity at odd hours and so forth and so that may not really be uh conducive to a residential setting future residents of the apartments may find that those uses annoying and be a bother to them on the other hand getting an active use of this property uh May stimulate other developments or redevelopments in the area for higher and better uses will the neighborhood provide a desirable living environment for the residents so again the surrounding uses could create a challenging environment it's not really an urban mixed use kind of area where you can see that residential use integrated with a variety of other commercial activities there's limited sidewalk Connections in the area for somebody to get out and walk through the area but there is close proximity to some commercial along swaro parks in the area and does have direct access to an overall Street Network to get other places uh in town as required by the code the applicant has provided a good neighbor statement uh discussing how they will manage the construction Redevelopment of the of the property for the residential use how they manage the parking and how they'll contribute to Neighborhood safety and maintaining the property they're also required to uh go through the citizen participation process where they notified uh Property Owners at 300 ft of their uh application and hold a neighborhood meeting we had uh one person come to that meeting who who had support for the project we have received a couple of emails that were in your packet of some of the neighbors who have the concerns about the impact this shes could have on the residential activities or again kind of the reverse the impact their residential activities may have their commercial activities in terms again the noise and so forth they generate may have may be negative for the residents so uh with regard to uh the ordinance requires for the commission to find uh there is some concern that uh this proposal meets those standards that it might not be a good fit uh with the surrounding uses but again would utilize an existing vacant building would provide additional variety of housing types and options and might stimulate other reuse in the general area so that is my quick presentation I could answer questions if you have them now Commissioners the applicant does have a presentation that they would like to make in a few speakers let's go ahead and see the applicant's presentation thank you honorable Commissioners good evening my name is Chris Enis I'm an attorney I confess to that and I represent art Tolus Heather Tolus art and Heather are contract vendees for the property that's under consideration 125 North Panorama Drive and as such we are making this application as an essential part of uh the requirements to be able to follow through on that contract for the purchase of the property so the preparation that you see here I'll explain before they present it is not for a rezoning I think that's important to note it's for what's a acknowledgement of what is a permitted especially permitted use for the zoning now that's important because the the underpinings for that legally are are very different uh the what we have to show here is that it's going to be uh a use that will be beneficial overall that's basically the legal standard unlike a rezoning where you have to show that uh there are a lot of other Hoops that you have to jump through we don't have to jump through them here um nonetheless we want to be a good neighbor so we are going to show to this or we're going to show that the permitted use is the one that should be permitted here um and before I do that I'm just going to say that this has been noted is is vacant it's not being used it has no use right now and nobody has any use for it and yet look at it it's a beautiful excuse me a beautiful building so all I can say is when an existing use has become disused well then I guess the town has to be practical and seeking to permit those uses that may be more able to be addressed and so what's to consider well the staff report the staff report says it all of course we support the staff report if you look at it they say okay well yeah it's in a commercial Zone and if you look at the commercial Zone though look where it is it's very close to Saguaro where there are restaurants and other amenities that people would tend to like if they're in an apartment and one of the things I like to do is to see where other places in town have had this the most recent of which was on January 17th of this year when the town board considered uh a very large residential use for a very commercial area and in fact they rezoned it which you're not I'm asking you to do they rezoned it for that purpose down technology dry and Shea Boulevard so this is that was a residential use it was being put where there wasn't any residential use before but there was a need for it and the the town approved of it so we're not asking for anything that's out of blind we're asking for something that's merely required somebody to look at it and say okay what you have here hasn't worked let's give this a try and as a result uh Mr Tolus has uh basically uh invested his money and time into showing how this could be done now the I'm going to introduce um Mr Ted Peterson who is um from PF Design Group who has the particulars as the we as way we Invision it right now how this is going to be done it doesn't necessarily have to be precisely this way but it has to be the use has to be authorized for it so when you see the presentation and you look at well okay that floor maybe you can move a wall do that that's not as important as the overall be use being able to utilize walls can be moved the Fire Marshall will have something to say about everything they already have they've already conducted Peter consulted with Peter Johnson to had some suggestions with regard to the some of the walls and everything where they are and quite frankly that's not for your concern no disrespect but your concern is whether or not the overall use being permitted here will help the area and that's basically what we're trying to do we're trying to help the area so with that and I'm going to introduce Mr Ted Peterson who will now explain the current plans as we have outlined them hello uh my name is Ted Peterson I uh we sorry so this is a this is a site plan of it the it's already set up into Suites on two different levels they're all approximately uh just around 800 square fet we just we looked at utilizing each each individual Suite uh as two-bedroom apartments um we didn't try we tried to organize it so that we weren't changing the physical structure of the building we use it utilize the existing windows and try to try to organize the bedrooms around that so they all hi eress out of them and it has a a courtyard space in the middle of it that is right now it's just kind of a gravel setup so we wanted as a residential component we tried to make that like a a green space and that's this area in in the middle there that uh that we're showing this is existing how it is to as it is right now uh they're basically open some of them have some interior walls there is Plumbing in every in every Suite there's a bathroom and a sink so we utilize the we already have the plumbing there so we were able to try try to locate the bathrooms as close as possible and and um and use what we have here's the here's the here's the uh proposed new new layout for it so you can see each suite's a little bit different the top two they have a mechanic or electrical room in the top two corners of of the space so we're stuck with those we had to work around those but um as you can see the bedrooms all set up with with egis windows out so that we didn't have to change any of the structure of the building we were're able to reuse that there's a 3D version of it so you can see a little bit clear how it how it lays out and then some more 3D images of it you can see that courtyard space that in this area right here gives it a little bit more um residential feel to it a little bit uh not so cold that's it that's the last page any questions commission um what but what about reuse of the solar are you going to continue uh the yes we will we we we we're planning on reusing it yes um I don't have particulars on on how much power it generates or or what that the component of it but it's a it is an asset to the building that would be utilized what part of the utility are you planning to have it to serve are these are these separately metered units are they separate furnaces and so on or air conditioning systems yes they are separate I don't know how the solar I don't know how the solar is set up to whether how it's generated or where it's stored or if it goes per per Suite or if it's just a a common thing for the building so I don't particularly know how that's uh how it's generated but um it is an asset of the building that would be that would be utilized how was it used before I don't know how the current tenant used it okay all right chair Mr uh Peterson you mentioned um reusing the existing Windows Mo most of them do not open um how are you going to address that for residential use reped they'll be replaced with operable windows but we won't be making the we won't need to make the size bigger we won't need to increase the size of so we won't need to change the structure of the of the building for that particular reason so yeah but they will need to be they will need to be able to be open for for FY aggressive IND very good how how are you going to address um handicap accessibility uh to comply with Ada for the second floors in particular and then in the back there's a there's quite a drop from the sidewalk um is there do you have any plan for that uh there is a dropped there are there are currently ramps there um I noticed that they aren't there there isn't uh handrails or anything on it so I it would have to be up bring it up to code um I I don't believe that every Suite has to be Ada accessible um so second floor second floor would be something that wouldn't be right um so there would be six six uh individual units on the ground floor that would accommodate that when when was this uh structure built I believe I Heard It Was 1980 I think Mr Wesley had said when 1980 I believe 80 is that are we sure of that late late 80s I think it said in the slide I had that in the slide I remember the numbers now without going back to that slide okay just wondering if there are any concerns for hazardous like I'm sorry just wondering if you would have to Abate you know get rid of some hazardous materials like as bestas and those kind of things that that can be another it's possible I guess we'd have to uh investigate that and that's all a brick structure it is all right well thank you commission anybody else yeah I don't really have any quiet just going to make get comment I mean if we're still taking questions I can I can wait for my comments but but I was so intrigued by this project I actually asked to have a tour of the project and uh it I mean I think the use that's being planned is pretty spectacular the uh the construction of the road is I guess it's near in completion all so the sidewalks are already out in front of there I mean there's easy access to Saro you've got access to how restaurant you've got access to Sapori you got access to the conven store up there walk easy walking and uh I went there purposely during business hours I think it was around 10:00 a.m.

and the Sounds of Silence were all I heard so I didn't hear any kind of you know body shop working going on or anything crazy like that so uh I visited several of the units and I mean there's actually pretty awesome views from the upstairs units of uh Four Peaks and some of the other so I think it's uh I think it's well thought out I think it's much needed in town especially depending on what happens with uh some of the other projects whether they come to fruition or not so I think this one's well done and well thought out how are you going to vote on it Scott I don't know I don't know what I'm going to commissioner Watts um somewhere along the line I heard 1973 was John and this may be to you 73 was when it was zoning only from C3 was pled okay platted and when was it actually Zone C3 original Z okay so the the special use permit is an overlay to the C3 zoning then yes thank you um why has it been vacant and this is probably for the applicant why has it been vacant for so long with no residents or no occupant actually to that really thank you chairman gray and commissioner my name is AR toas my wife toas and we are the applicants so the building was built in 1988 the solar panels currently have uh all their units is that utility closet that the Ted had indicated that we have to have a carve out for uh Peter Johnson had come to the building uh when we were in the initial stages of uh putting this deal together and I wanted to make sure that there weren't any hurdles that that we couldn't overcome so came to the building he went through the building and he uh did a little checklist with us as to some of the issues that we need to make sure we re resolve uh one of which was that utility uh area which we have with the architectural drawings uh other issues that had been brought up was the those sidewalks in the back and he had suggested to us to just make a a small partial wall so that that's not actually a sidewalk on the back of the building so that it's separated so it's not a sidewalk so that you would not be utilizing it as a sidewalk the um other uh question that you had was the metering in the utilities each one of these units is separately metered for electrical and the solar so as part of the rents that are going to be uh we're going to be moving forward with that will be an offset to the utilities to the tenants that uh that rent this property right now it's a uh this about a at zero cost of the utilities in the building the air conditions uh have been going all summer long so the building is relatively vacant the um the the current uh owner of the building that has a computer company he has been the owner since the 90s so all of those units had been utilized for his computer company when he sold his computer company the property has been effectively vacant and for sale with no buyers so that's uh where my wife and I had come originally to look at this building and thinking of the different uh needs that we have not only for the businesses that we own in Fountain Hills but we also have six children that are all renting elsewhere and when you look for rentals and you look for properties in town there are not a lot of options so we walked through this building and uh I really felt that it was uh at highest and best use was for the uh Apartments and as commissioner schalberg had indicated I too have been going to this building on a regular basis and this has been for months and I have been parking in a parking lot and I have been listening from the inside from the outside and I have not at one time heard anything that I would think would be a detrimental situation for a tenant that would be complaining um our attorney chinos I also had uh provided a sample of a lease addendum that would indicate that this is C3 zoning and it is special use for residential and that the tenants need to be aware that unlike a completely 100% residential area there may be times when you do have some noise and there may be times that it's a little bit louder than the norm would be uh I I laugh with my my wife and I we live up behind the high school and uh pickle ball is louder than probably anything I've heard heard at this particular res this property so far and we live with pickle ball noise on a regular basis um so if there's any other questions for me I'd be happy to try to answer I've done a lot of research my wife and I have uh invested in a lot of uh of those types of inspections and things that are necessary to move forward with this process be happy to answer any questions just a couple more you did the 300 foot Outreach to the adjoining neighbors how many were yes how many were or now there was only one that uh called in for the meeting and that was Andrea next door that's Jamie and Andrea the automotive dealership Mike's Automotive uh they live up in northern Arizona and uh they were interested in the project and I spoke to her for a good 20 minutes I was actually in uh I was actually out of town myself and my wife was at the building and uh they thought you know what this is great supporter then so they were supportive at the time yes okay and two more questions how does the project help the area in in your estimation because it's so heavily commercial right now when you go to the down to Enterprise and pan Panama or Panorama so you know when I think of a heavily commercial area uh I think of when I lived in Boston Massachusetts in an apartment on Commonwealth Avenue and there was a tremendous amount of noise an activity on a 24/7 and uh when I drive through this area it's actually pretty peaceful and uh you have a storage unit across the street for RVs you have a little yard in the back uh on the right on the across the street that uh it looks like they store some equipment and things of that nature but has not been I haven't heard a lot of noise coming from that uh you have the water company next door I I have hardly ever seen anyone even there when I was was down there and then you have uh Mike's Automotive and Mike's Automotive has their normal activity that you'd have with cars and things of that nature so uh I've lived in much busier and much louder areas myself so for me I think to myself well maybe this is actually going to create housing for businesses that are in that surrounding area and if I have an automotive shop or if I have a repair company maybe this is is an area where when I'm advertising for employment that I can say there is a property that has 12 units that's coming up in line and it's expected to be certificate of occupancy as of April 1 and this might be a great area that you can live in so I see it as a a benefit it's uh3 miles away from Fountain Park you can walk to Fountain Park with in four minutes I I've done it on a regular basis and the sidewalk is actually right across the street that walk walks down and then you connect right on the corner uh right past the water company so it's a 10sec walk to the sidewalk that leads you directly to Fountain Park so and then on the other side you have all the restaurants that has already been discussed that you have uh a lot of the deli uh the convenience store so I think it's a very um nice property and I think it's an attractive place for people to rent and and uh I think it would be a good fit uh for the area and we plan to make it uh very desirable and uh one thing that the architect uh had not brought up that we have discussed is that there is a utility easement in the back that is um maybe about uh 15 feet by about 50 and that area we're going to make it nice and cleaned out and make it so that uh if someone had a small dog that was uh in this uh this apartment complex like any other apartment complex someplace where they might walk the dog the dog park and Desert Vista Park is also right around the corner from this property so there's a lot of amenities that anyone who would want to live in a residential area I think it would be uh a desirable spot have you considered any of the Landscaping in front of the project to buffer any of the sound because I think the the storage yard is a town storage yard and that activity starts early in the morning so buffering and then I think some of the the apartments could generate their own noise that be be disturbing the neighbors so do you have a plan to do anything on the front H haven't uh haven't really discuss I think it's a consideration and there's some big right now there's some big uh pine trees in the front that Evergreens that are in the front of this building currently I missed those um yeah there's there's there's one on the right side there's one on the left side okay as well and then around the sides of the building there are b um there are um L Enders that are that are surrounding the the property on the right and left and it sounds like you've already got tenants lined up with your kids all six or eight of them are going to is that what it is at least have two okay at least two of the six 12 units sounded like it all right thank you anything else commissioner Cory yes thank you um thank you art um I also uh visited the property because I read that the sound was an issue and I wanted to get a firsthand look at that myself I didn't go during the week I went yesterday at 2 p.m.

so it was a Sunday um but I I really wanted to get my own perspective on what that sound was like and it was uh it was very quiet um I drove around um I also stood outside the property I went into the Courtyard area um and even art was able to show me inside some of the units and and it was surprisingly quiet given it was a Sunday but it was quiet um so I think that you know there's other properties that are along sawaro even that are right on the road could even be noisier than something like this so that that was my primary concern in wanting to hear that um but as I drove around I noticed that like art mentioned it is close to the dog park uh there is a sidewalk on the property uh the the road is newly paved uh it is also I don't know if we saw the map but it's close proximity to other like residential um properties so even though it's situated kind of in commmercial it's still also very close to other Residential Properties I think that's important um and like art mentioned it's right behind the deli store and it's also a close walk to Fountain Park so those were some of the things I looked for is is this in a good is this in a good position if would people want to live in a in a place like this and it looks like they could still walk around enjoy some of the amenities um so is it suitable for residential use I think it is um I'm glad that you brought up though that um when you're renting it having something in the a rental agreement that might say that you know where it's located you might hear some noise just that's my major concern is to make sure that people know that going in so they don't end up coming to us later saying it's too loud over here uh but from what I heard at 2:00 on a Sunday it was very quiet and I've been to other places in town where my friends live and it's not not nearly that quiet so I I don't think that's a concern um and then I just wanted to call out a few other things some of the things that I would look for is you know as John mentioned um it does align with the general plan it supports a variety of housing options um and the housing needs we have the housing need and I think this is a unique um a unique change in the what it's currently is today and what it could be in the future um it's a strategic iic use of underutilized space right now it's office space it's been like that for a long time not used so I love seeing that we can repurpose something that we already have and I think we talk about balancing um uh preservation of land with development I love seeing when we can convert something that already exists into a new use so um I think that that's good and then also mixed use you know like I mentioned before uh this is in a place that uh if people live there they can walk to other places so mixed use isn't always necessarily like we talk about where you're living on top and there's a commercial property on the bottom but it could be that you're living within a neighborhood of um the deli store or uh some of the other restaurants and surprisingly a lot is within walking distance here so I think that would be a benefit to people that may want to rent there um so I think overall you know especially after having visited in person it's interesting art that the layout is almost like they weren't sure what they were going to do with it and then when they built it anyways it could have been residential at the time just the uniqueness of the six properties on the bottom and the six properties on the top so I think if it was converted to residential it still would make a nice use um I think people would think that the layout was conducive to a residential setting so um for um for the record I would also add that during our process of investigating the Fe ility of this we had uh um Builder Dennis Brown who who will be the general contractor on the building and then we had Peter Johnson come out as I indicated and we also had Dave a from the fire department come out so everything has been evaluated as to what the requirements would be and we feel we can achieve them and and we can make this happen Okay thank you commission K hi um our we we the prior owner of the building you said um sold his computer company and then put the building up for sale has anybody tried to make this work as office space I don't know uh what offers this uh seller may have had in the past uh but I do know that it was on the market for quite some time and that no one stepped forward with an offer that was acceptable to move this to uh having uh commercial use uh in the property so um he never tried to lease the individual Suites as office space himself okay um my concern over we are we don't have much in town in the way of C3 zoning they're just isn't much and to put residential into the the the heart of the C3 zoning we do have and the lot there's a vacant lot to the South and West from that you'd access from tyoga um I think having residential a border with residential would severely limit the use of that property and that's that's my concern is that we're hamstringing the other C3 user somebody wants to put a landscape business in there and and run their trucks for example at at 6:00 in the morning now all of a sudden you have 12 residents you have 12 voters that don't want that in their backyard literally in their backyard and that's my concern because you and my concern and I understand what council said about um not asking for a rezoning but you're in essence rezoning not just this property but the properties around it because when you try to bring in a in an intense commercial use now you're going to have a lot of objection and I that's my concern have at it I will okay again um the best question I they're all great questions you're all great questioners God bless you but the best one was why is this vacant that was commissioner Watts he says why is it vacant well it turns out that these are offices that Nobody needs Nobody wants in a building that's been long constructed we don't have uh any other way to make it desirable other than to make it desirable to perspective tenants the and you're not going to have a mortuary come and move in there you're not going to have a a gravel business come and move in there it's a building it's already there it looks residential and it probably should have been residential to begin with and again I must point out I have a case lawyers bring lot with them and the sand Blum versus carbin it was quoted the issuance of a special use permit is generally recognized as an administrative act because even though the permit May authorize a change in the property's use such use is already sanctioned by the provisions of the existing ordinance upon approval of proper administrative authorities namely you and the Town Council so as a result the public is not affected to as great a degree by the issuance of these permits such as this as they would be in cases of change of zoning because they're already on notice that these special uses are permissible by the administrative decree in other words the difference between this and resoning if you bought a property that had to be rezoned some next hey they're resoning a proper property I moved in here not thinking anything was going to ever happen in this case it's already on a matter of record that this is especially permitted use and anybody who would buy property adjacent or work on property adjacent or do anything adjacent to it is on knows that this could be specially permitted use I didn't say that that's what the court said so all I can say let's save the closing arguments let's let's open up the public hearing we have any speaker cards Paula we do chair we have three speakers the first speaker is Matthew Corgan the next speaker would be Shelby Bleecker and on Deck after that's Gerard trulson Mr chairman Commissioners I am Matthew Corgan homeowner and full-time resident here in Fountain Hills and I want to thank you for your volunteer time and effort and work in the planning and Zone commission I have also visited the site the office building at 12005 North Panorama Drive and acknowledge that the area described by the staff is C3 zoning including outdoor storage Auto Repair mixed retail and a couple of restaurants by the way the conceptual plans from PF Design Group are very appealing they're very attractive and compelling but in keeping with the general plan Vision on page 14 in mind describing a variety of housing options are available in safe quiet Pleasant and enjoyable neighborhoods this is maybe not that C3 zoning district is described as the most intense commercial District in Fountain Hills and the neighborhood is just that very commercial EP Poore water and office storage yard auto repair and other commercial businesses this is not residential according to staff question number three is reg the question is is residential use designed and established in a manner that creates a desirable living environment in a manner compatible with the adjacent development and supportive of the general welfare of the town again good question the report also notes in this type of heavy commercial area higher levels of noise and activity are anticipated and expected the introduction of people living in the area creates the potential that the residents will expect and not tolerate the level of noise and activity historically associated with this area not my words the staff's words there is a term that I might use and it's a common term in real estate it's called spot zoning and that seems to describe or could describe this particular project although staff reports that this building has been vacant for many years adding residential to such an area in my opinion will do nothing but compound that problem by creating a climate potential climate of conflict between the residents and Commercial tenants quite frankly I don't have a dog in the fight it's an observation again beautiful plan maybe the wrong place thank you Shelby bleer please good evening commissioner and chair people uh my name is Shelby blacker I'm a new resident in Fountain Hills um I just wanted to bring a little perspective from where I came from in this type of zoning I've seen where heavy Industrial and Commercial use has been repurposed into multifam it's incredibly challenging but it can work um it would be better if there was a some type of community plan for that area whether it's um four or five blocks around it but just as it sits I have to Echo what Matthew Corgan said it's really challenging the residents may end up fighting against this at some point in the future but if if there are other vacant commercial properties and other owners that are also looking to do this if there was some type of community plan that offered this or encouraged this you have a great opportunity here thank you my name is Jared trolson I'm the president and owner of TNT construction were located directly to the east of the property that they're looking to develop just you guys know I am born and raised in Fountain Hills graduated high school here wrestled here I'm in the Hall of Fame for athletics I love this town I live right next door my wife didn't really want to live in Fountain Hills but I got her one light away I know the Christians since the former own owners of the building uh I went to high school with their daughter there some was a little bit younger than me I'm very Pro development I'm a third generation con Construction Company owner We Grew From Wisconsin down to Arizona we've been in that building since 1996 but we also can see that building directly from our yard we hold multiple contracts that are on a job order contract or on call basis that require us to to respond to emergency water line sewer or other utility braks the other storage yard to the northwest of it is cre Contracting who also is the same age as me second generation family-owned construction company and they have the same contract with epcore so they the reason why you don't hear noise when you go out and visit at 10:00 a.m.

or 2 p.m or anytime throughout the day is because we're not working there we're working where there are utility damages so you may not hear the noise but when all of a sudden if epcor calls up Kum and there's a waterline break on Palisades like there was a couple years ago they may need them to come out help and so at 2 in the morning 1 in the morning whatever time it may be they're mobilizing equipment getting things ready getting out there to repair it so that water can be restored to the users that it is lost to same with us we're getting equipment ready we're getting material ready not for epcore but for other municipalities throughout the valley we've been in business since 1983 I love Fountain Hills and I love the idea of developing that property but the residents that live there are going to experience noise it's inevitable and it's within the town ordinance because it is responding to restore service for utilities and there's nothing we can do about that and while I would love to see that building turn into something and I don't I don't think that it'll necessarily impact our operations it will be at the detriment of the people that live there because we are following the noise ornament we are doing what we're supposed to we're trying to help and so I just hope that everybody considers that if that office building does become Apartments they are going to live with noise they aren't going to live with dust because we maintain that that would be a violation but they will deal with noise at odd hours of the night I have two young children a four-year-old and a one-year-old I'd much rather be putting them to bed right now it pains me to be here but it's important because I want to make sure that everybody on on the zoning commission understands that once those res residents move in they are going to experience a lot of noise it's going to generate complaints and there's very little that they can do about it because we're not doing something that's wrong thank you chairman gray I have a question for him if that's okay it's out of protocol but go ahead Jared right what type of noise are you making at 1:00 a.m we're getting equipment ready so we're firing up equipment they have backup alarms it's loud you're moving material around it can be metal could be welding on equipment if there's damage because you have to have it ready and operational in order to do it you may not have anticipated it um we're moving things around to get the parts or pieces that we need a lot of it is metal um you know the town of Fountain Hills has a lot of special cement pipe for their water lines AC pipe wasn't built by epcor it from back when was originally developed you get a loud mon or or a strong Monsoon storm that pipe breaks because of the lightning strike just because of the way that it was constructed installed and so you're grabbing the right but I'm not talking about the pipe brakes I'm talking about you pulling up in the yard to get your equipment ready how what are you doing to make the to get I mean what type of noise are you producing at that time we could be welding on buckets grinding on buckets we could be moving metal pipe around to get it ready to get it onto a trailer to move out to the job site or wherever the repair would be it all just depends upon the break how often does this happen how often are you getting these midnight calls it's sporadic it could be two times a year it could be 10 times a year when was the last time it happened April just this last April m one time well that was the last time yes okay and like I said either way you guys decide on this and gals is immaterial to us because we're not doing it we're not generating noise outside of the noise ordinance it is mainly for the people that would live there thank you thank you very much no chair let's go ahead and close the public hearing bring John back up could we have I did have a question for art based on what that person said all right let's bring art up first then um I think I appreciate that Jared came up and shared his perspective perspective from what what kind of business they have there and I think that's the the key thing here is as the business as the property owner would you be able to like let those residents know that these are the types of noises they may experience at certain times during the year to make sure that that is something that they agree to that they can expect and wouldn't be uh complaining about it I guess you know can you address that sure thank you and some of the points uh commissioner you had just brought up I was going to address as well and that was specifically in regards to you know how how many complaints from existing homes and apartments have they had because there are already I can drive a golf ball to the apartments down the street in the condos and town homes not only on this street on Panorama but if you go around the block to Desert Vista Park uh Hollywood Auto Body and right across the street right there there's a whole another residential neighborhood that's in the same vicinity so if we're having the deciel level of noise that's above and beyond what's normal everyone in that area is hearing it so I'm glad that you asked how often does this happen so one of the things I did uh in in in expectation of this question uh was to do an addendum to an Elise agreement and what I did here and I'll just briefly read it to you there's there's uh five parts to it zoning disclosure the property you're about to lease is within a C3 zoned area with a special use permit for residential Apartments this zoning designation means that there are various businesses in the vicinity that may occasionally produce noise as part of their regular operations number two the noise ordinance compliance all businesses with the area are required to adhere to the town of Fountain Hills noise ordinance while it is expected that businesses will respect the rules and regulations concerning noise please note and be aware and I had a nice conversation with this gentleman here from time to time noises may be heard from this location that are different from those in traditional strictly residential areas in the situations where you have emergency response teams that are addressing utility issues and things of that nature so the noise that they make to prepare for those type of activities such as if it's on pan on Palisades Boulevard with a water leak all the res that are in that area are also experiencing the same noise of activity to deal with an emergency response no different than if an ambulance shows up in my neighborhood in emergency response at 2 in the morning for a neighbor these are noises that we all expect and I think we all realize can happen number three I said tenant acknowledgement and compliant procedures uh by signing this addendum ten tenants acknowledge that they have been informed of the potential for noise due to the proper proper location in a three C3 zoned area with special use if any noise issues arise the tenants are advised to First Contact the landlord the landlord will assess the situation and if necessary file complaints with the appropriate Town departments for further review so each situation will be handled by us because the last thing I want to do and what I said in our Good Neighbor statement was to adversely affect the businesses in the area we all want to get along and we want to work together to have an area that is livable and workable for everyone and that was my last point in this uh statement I said mutual respect and coexistence our goal as Property Owners is to provide a peaceful and Healthy Living environment for our tenants the area offers many amenities including parks within walking distance and restaurants just minutes away on foot we kindly ask that the tenants respect the businesses in the surrounding area and avoid filing unwarranted complaints we believe in fostering a mutually beneficial relationship between residents and businesses within the district so that is how we will handle the tenant relationships and Lease agreements thank you anything else Mr uh Mr Tois would you be willing to consider noise as a whole is a function of transmission of sound through walls without knowing what the construction is I would assume that you're going to upgrade the windows from Dual pane from single pan probably to dual pane maybe there would would you be willing to consider upgrading to triple pane windows to help alleviate some of the noise because without knowing what the walls are there's no staggered studs there's no sound barrier insulation the entire building is block construction right now the entire building is block construction and I will defer to my architect in regards to absolutely we will put in the best Windows we possibly can to uh take care of any potential noise then probably have some like address no is my name is Don Jolly I'm an architect I'm partners with Ted Peterson I'll be working with him on this project I used to live in an apartment in Chicago where I never did not hear a siren 24 hours a day so I'm kind I've become an expert in sound um shopping sound for transferring I had a project where an upscale neighborhood had a pump station for a canal and it went right into the neighborhood and all it took was a little six foot wall take care of it to take away sound you need U distance and mass strategic walls um you talked about Windows the new energy code requires theay Windows you can get Triple pain windows and it makes a really it makes a amazing difference in the sound so if a crying baby in an apartment goes out to that auto shop and you're not going to hear it so I don't and also if you wanted to have a a building that was um soundproof block construction is way to go yeah but my point wasn't soundproofing my point was to take it an additional step and you just acknowledge that going from Dual pain to Triple pain enhances the sound barrier if you ever been into a building that have used to have single pane windows and you put the new energy code windows in it's amazing I understand but again going from Dual pain to to Triple pain is an incremental increase in the cost doing that and all I asked for Mr Tois was to consider it I didn't say it was going to be a requirement I said consider it because I got more questions for John about the building codes and compliance but I think it's worthy of consideration particularly with the proximity I completely get the contractor's point of view where I've got noise at night I've got steel pipe I've got rigging going on all of those things and it can be annoying maybe not prohibitive and I appreciate the addendum that was put together but considering that triple pain it's a it's an Ask that's all it is anything I mean I can understand sound and there's lots of ways to fix to fix that problem lots of ways I agree all right John uh just taking the Box John it looks like it self Parks itself and then some yes um special use permit rules of the road does a special use permit convey if the building were sold once the the use is established yes okay um what are your thoughts about the I'll use the word disenfranchisement of the adjacent C3 part if we go down this path I I I tend to think I like the ReUse of the building I also have some reservations with the placement of it being kind of at the heart of the C3 District so I'm I'm curious to get your candid thoughts chairman uh chairman gray it's been a struggle uh for me from the the time Mr tols first came and and approached the topic with us and I've gone kind of back and forth on it myself and Ideal World we wouldn't have residential here it really is an odd place for it in the middle of the C3 area it is an important commercial area for the town it has been mentioned it is our only C3 area in town and so if we're going to have those more intense employment type uses this is where they're going to occur and having a residential piece right in the middle could uh signal that those types of intense commercial uses aren't desired and and may cause a problem for their long-term viability on the other hand the property is a good fit as we've seen the design for residential use the overall Street uh Panorama from the residences not too much further north to the commercial a little bit to the South fits fairly well it has been vacant and we will be better off as a towns if it's being used and if it's sitting there vacant and so I've had that kind of tug back and forth myself U bottom line I think most of the the challenges that are presented with the site uh can be addressed I think Mr tollis has done a good job with both his design and what he's proposed this evening with regard to uh some of the terms of the lease they'll help the residents that move in there understand that condition and so we can support uh a recommendation for approval to council can a special use permit bind that lease agenda to the property not really right that gets a little bit difficult uh to do that um there I hadn't thought about this till standing here right now uh something would be a little bit more doable would be someplace on the property maybe it's someplace inside that courtyard we required that there would be a sign posted that notifies residents you're in a commercial Zone and whatever that would say I don't know exactly that would be a little bit easier to do up front and enforce long term than something in a lease if you interested in and something like that um and what's the inevitably a resident a lease holder is going to call the town once they reach a level of frustration what's the burden to the town once that starts chairman that would similar to any other type of complaint that we get would have to investigate it and and see if we thought there's anything Justified uh with the complaint that was outside the code requirement and everyone is so different it's hard to say you know how big that that issue would be wat John staff uh said they see challenges can you tell me what those challenges are that are perceived at this point so when we look again here I have on on the screen the list of what's required for the commission to find in order to recommend approval and as has been mentioned given the some of the activities that occur in the area of a of a intense commercial nature we heard a good description uh from the property owner to the east just a moment ago of the types of of activities that could be happening at 1: 2 in the morning when people are trying to sleep with a lot of noise that's not what you expect in a commercial area uh when uh you're in a a living situation and even typical mixed use type of residential situation you expect to really be in a uh environment where you you come out of your apartment and you're part of uh still a neighborhood where you can do a variety of things see other and be part of other residential activities this is more isolated and and a single residents uh kind of in that situation uh separated from those other types of uses that you may want to go to there are commercial uses along sarl um there little little bit distance they're not um that many maybe that you'd really use on a regular basis you know so we just see some challenges that way it's not the ideal if we were designing this from scratch we wouldn't design it this way but could it work it could so you you don't see any insurmountable challenges with the cooperation of the applicant no okay thank you so John how many other Parcels are zoned similar to this in that condensed area I'm not uh commissioner I couldn't give you that U number exactly right now but if you look at the map okay uh you'll see uh this area uh is all zoned C3 and so I don't is that 75 Parcels something in that range um 50 at least probably there's on the C3 but how many are are there any vacant Parcels are there vacant there's one here to the immediate Southeast that's vacant there's one here to the West that's uh used to have a building on it building I believe burned a few years ago it's just a slab right now it is uh in the process of being redeveloped for some storage use those are the only truly vacant ones I guess there's one more just off the screen uh here to the North or to the to the West well the one that's directly behind it yes um I guess that what I the noise the noise factor is not going to go away that that if there's a tenant unhappy about the noise they're going to come here or they're going to they're going to complain to somebody I don't care what a denims are in a lease they're going to complain whether they got a case or not that's going to be up between them and art and and Heather and their attorney so I I don't but I don't I don't see that ever going away um the the buildings are um block I'm sure that's going to help with some of the noise abatement um it the the design is I mean it's almost tailor made to to convert to an apartment building or a condo or some residential use to me it's just in the wrong place and I I can't get over that fact that okay there's a vacant parcel behind that anyone that has a a a landscaping business business or some sort of a trucking business or something that would fit into commercial zoning will avoid going there because they're going to they don't want to create a problem for themselves because they got a residential use in their backyard and that's why I was wondering what other what and and is that going to uh hamstring the the the town to have another use for these properties always knowing that there's a residential there's 12 units of residential right next to it and that's that's just a I think that's a legitimate concern um and I I don't know that that um I don't know that it can be overcome with a p a piece of paper that a tenant signs um because that is it's going to it's going to be an issue and I I wonder about the value of of some of these other properties to be to be well in fact if the the neighboring properties want to sell at some point in time are they going to be uh Limited in the in the type of of user on their property because it's not it's not built like this property was it's easily convertible to residential it's going to have to remain as a as a construction site or some other sort of of C3 property so that I guess long term that's what my my my problem is with that I think it other than that that it's again great building maybe in the wrong spot I struggling with that part of it Dan oh the other I my other point to piggy back on to that um I we had an owner in the building he had a business sold the business buyer of the business no longer needs the building so the business moves out you have a vacant building but I'm not hearing where anybody even tried to keep it commercial they didn't that where anybody's even tried to lease it as an office building seller of the business just wants out he he no longer you know he just want to retire or whatever he wants out and I I'm just not hearing where there was an even an attempt to utilize this building with the C3 zoning con conforming to the C3 zoning and and I it's a great it looks like a great project and and I commend the work that art and Heather did but it's right in the center of C3 it's it is in the wrong spot and and so I I just I don't see how I can support it commission depal yeah chairman um since Co Office Buildings if you notice the trend there isn't much use for Office Buildings anymore uh chairman you have an office that I don't know if you if you ever use it three days if you ever show up there in the office but anyway um so yeah it's um the only option here was would be to leave that building empty because who wants an office complex right now unless if that building gets bulldozed and and is used for something similar to what Josh has there in in his yard um um that that building will remain empty um um there are plenty of empty uh uh offices now um that are not being utilized for anything because of this new uh hybrid type of use where people are working from home um so if I would like to make a motion on this make a move on this um um because this this use uh seems Seems right to me um the building is going to continue to age it's going to continue to deteriorate if uh something is not done to uh to repurpose it and use it for for something of the sort I'll give you the the right to the motion but before you do um I also think I think the plan is a really good adaptive reuse plan uh for the structure but I'm more in the camp of commissioner kovic in that the original build of an office building with all of these adjacencies and I don't know which came first this building or the other the other development around it but the original build looks to be a mistake you know retrospectively of course and I don't think that it would be wise for us to double down and enhance that mistake by converting it to residential this in my opinion is probably a demo and repurpose parcel not a reuse building anywhere else I would be fully supportive of it but not in its current placement commissioner Watts I'd ask you to consider the fact that somebody like a Regis who has single offices all across the country is not going to buy this building and my position is quickly becoming something is better than nothing it's not going to fit commercial there's no contractor out there I that has any type of equipment that would fit into C3 Zone is going to need a building like that and I would rather at least at this point without further discussion have something in there than nothing how do you how does John convince us that this decision and I I could flip a coin I could go with you on it but how does John convince us that we are not going to adversely affect affect the other adjacent C3 stakeholders two years 3 years 5 years from now because somebody made the point I think it was Dan made the point that eventually you get 12 maybe you get 24 voters in there eventually you get people showing up to meetings in groups and eventually you start to drive change as a result of that and I I'll just be cognizant that we could start that Wick burning but the other side of that coin is if you look at it from a strict Financial stand point the financial liability is with the applicant and if it is such a boondoggle to make this effectively studio apartments because I don't think most of those you can really manage two bedrooms out of but regardless it's a financial decision and if the financial aspects and the and the occupancy doesn't pay for his Investments he suffers the burden so I'm looking at the the other side of that coin as opposed to just the the adjoining properties and immediately south of there there are other residential areas and I think even if you bulldozed it and and put something that was heavier commercial like the town Storage Center you'd have a noise issue so we're right on the edge of adjoining properties and I think the Financial Risk is on the applicant and i' i' support that I think the shortterm risk is on the applicant the medium-term risk is potentially on the other adjacencies well that's quite possible and and if the long term the residents of the town have an influx of commercial contractors into town first off there's no local business that would support an abundance of residents where that C3 is sitting right now there was a wood shop in there years ago a fabrication shop there's a plethora of small businesses in there but none that size none the small 12 800 square feet plus or minus uh facilities that is a Regis type of a property and if I was an investor I would probably buy that and try to lease it to individuals but I I don't think it's going to have an adverse effect I think if anything the potential adverse effect is on the applicant and the leas orce agreed SC I I go back to the residential that's I mean it's maybe a tenth of a mile away which butts up against the commercial as well and I don't know if we've had complaints for noise in those residential neighborhoods but I don't see that being any different than than where this is honestly have we had complaints John chairman Vice chairman no not that I'm aware of in terms of noise complaints I ass you're talking about with these residents up here to the north from the commercials that are adjacent here correct we'll note that I believe this is a A Min storage type facility so it's not going to have the same type of active middle of the night type of things you might have in this location they are and you'd have the wash that separates this area from those residents is that many storage open 24 hours does it have 24hour access commissioner I don't know for sure I'm just saying I mean that goes back to the point where somebody could be moving their stuff in at 2: in the morning and backing up and beepers back up warning going off so that's what I'm saying similar situation and it buts right up against that residential John what's hours of operations in C3 No Limits so the guy behind could be doing body panels and if there were complaints out of these residents the city would stand down so without pulling up the noise ordinance uh we don't have a deal limit it does talk about what's usual and customary in an area and this being an intense commercial area we would expect a lot of noise so the threshold would be different uh in terms of the loud no loud noise and if we were in the middle of a single family neighborhood I want to vote for this I'm just very afraid of what we're going to uncork here John sorry question for you what any idea maybe this is a question for Amanda what's the occupancy of the the office suites that are along Avenue of the Fon there's there's several offices individual offices that people have I and as as and maybe art knows better has has the current owner been active in trying to lease at least at lease the spaces so chair commissioner yes I cannot answer any of those questions specifically I don't know what the owner has done in terms of individual uh lease attempts versus overall sale in the building and I know I hear Amanda talk about the various vacancy rates but I don't remember what they are off the top of my had uh early meeting uh that we did have uh with staff with Mr tolis uh Amanda was supportive of his request she was she was supportive of this conversion thank you commissioner or do you want to make another comment commissioner Cory yeah just one more comment um I I did want to comment because somebody mentioned a couple times bulldozing it and I can say that having been there to the property it is like a solid um block construction and it it was very quiet inside and just looking at the layout um it's interesting like I mentioned before it's almost like it was built to have multi-purposes um I could see it being residential at the time it was built too so I think that's that's kind of unique and something else like when Matthew Matthew brought up you know people want to live in these beautiful locations I think there's also a lot of diversity in what people want so this may be an attractive location for someone who could be looking for like lower rent or being closer to um commercial property closer to restaurants to walk around they might not necessarily be looking for something that has a a view of you know the trees and the mountains and in a quiet place with the park so I think that we have to consider that this could be a great opportunity for people that might be looking for something closer to amenities and maybe a little bit I'm sure art having this in the middle of the commercial property that maybe the rent would be a little bit lower I think I saw 18 to 2500 on your application so those could be um attractive to people that are looking for just an apartment to get in and out of that's close to a main artery um so I I think we should consider those things and the other thing I want to mention is when I stood up front um I did see two bicyclists ride their bike by so it tells me that they're they're riding to the the fountain or to a sawaro um and also I could see the R5 five building from the front so it's not it's not like it's so far separated it still kind of is in that mix um so you know people walking outside and being able to use the neighborhood I think is still something that would be attractive to a lot of people that's my comment I am for it I wanted to just make that point you have another one yeah um I know that the underlying vacancy raate for for multif family in town is reputed to be 3% I cannot find the underlying data but I don't think that this the this property is going to Warrant a $2,000 rent and I think that owner is going to be on the applicant the financial aspect of it I'm that's why I would support it commissioner depa your motion sure I would like to move to recommend as suggested by the staff and um um to uh to approve of uh the special use permit 24- 00002 commission Cory I would second that and just adding that there is some sort of a notification to the residents whether that's the addendum to in the disclosure or the sign that tells them about the potential I'm sorry if you would is that mean you're going to Second it yes I am seconding it okay thank you commissioner TOA are are you out of protocol here a little bit are you amable to that adjustment to your motion um sure okay commissioner depaz put a motion to approve on the table commissioner Corey has seconded paula let's do a roll call please commissioner Corey I commissioner depa I commissioner kovasovic nayay commissioner schlosberg hi commissioner seum Nate Vice chair Watts hi chair gray nay four 43 thank you Paula all right agenda item six public hearing and possible action on ordinance 24-13 amending section 5.14 home occupations and allowance of on street parking chair Commissioners you may recall uh six nine months ago uh you had a text mment that uh was before you with regard to uh adjusting our home based business ordinance uh you recommended approval to Town Council with a few modifications when we got to Town Council and they discussed it they also had a little bit of discussion we had some public there uh to uh raise some concerns and have some comments they did approve the ordinance uh at their March meeting and doing so there was some discussion about the amount of an allowance for on street parking in front of a homebased business the way that it was discussed and the way the motion was uh made at the council staff did not uh pick up that that there was any intent to include that as part of the ordinance we have had discussion since then that there was a desire to have a some adjusted language with regard to parking associated with the homebased business and so we have worked on what that was based on what was discussed at the council meeting at that March meeting and so the additional sentence added here at the end in the red is the proposed change to address uh putting some limit on the on street parking that might happen in front of a home occupation and so it is uh proposed and recommended that we make this adjustment to uh the section of the homebased business ordinance questions or comments Commissioners just that it yes it makes sense to me it seems like maybe this is just something we missed when we were doing it initially so um it makes sense that we would say hey use the available parking first only then if it's full you can park on the street makes sense to me thank you and maybe some level of transparency staff sees some challenges with act practical application of it but it's sets the tone of what the attender desire is commissioner Sven commissioner Watts I see just the opposite side I've got full parking in the parking areas driveway whatever somebody leaves and somebody had in the meantime parked on the street one two three people how are we going to keep track of that Vice chair that's a that's a challenge That's A $64 question but we don't have a plan right that that that would be one of the challenges ongoing in terms of being able to actually enforce it do we know which homes have homebased businesses do we know what their hours of operation are so forth there be a number of challenges with the Practical implementation of it but again it sets the desire and the standard that we're after uh for the town to try to get the parking off the street as much as possible and are we fully staffed for uh code enforcement now we are currently down a half a person but we have uh interviews next week you're retired right it might be easy here thank you uh I guess we should do a public hearing any speaker cards public no chair really we were having so much fun uh okay well let's close a public hearing then commissioner final discussion or a motion commissioner Wat I think code enforcement is going to have their hands full and I think that if we can manage homebased businesses and the potential Revenue that we should get from them for for declaring what what they do then maybe that'll fund the code enforcement person but I think you got your hands full John with code enforcement so I'll still support it but it'll be interesting to see the outcome well the reality is is if you if you if we comply with first sentence of it the last sentence really shouldn't be in play right except for those situations and how you're manage yes and no I mean I think if somebody's going to get into a code enforcement scenario it's going to be on sentence one not sentence five or four it becomes semi redundant at that point isn't that the conversation we had before about the reason that we had the number of trips limited uh to six well I I do think it's it's a reasonable supplemental constraint I mean the whole idea here is if you're going to be of that critical mass the home probably isn't the right place for it right fair so let's look at it and as snarky as I can be about it surprise surprise if we don't pass it Council will so with that you make it you just had to I had to so I move to approve the amendment you can second it if you'd like go I move to approve the U amendment to ordinance section 5.14 home occupants regarding allowances for on street parking as suggested second motion has been made to approve by commissioner watt seconded by commissioner Corey just for the sport of it roll call please oh wow okay commissioner Corey I commissioner depa I commissioner kovic I commissioner schlosberg I commissioner St hi Vice chair Watts hi chair gray hi 70 thanks Paula all right seven and eight commission discussion and summary of requests anything for me okay okay yes we got a whole whole another one to go no Commissioners um I really don't have much this evening we do have U at least one item for a September meeting maybe two so we'll keep you busy in update on I is it Ivory Lane Indigo Indigo oh that was withdrawn withdrawn yes and John I would like to amend my comment last week or the last meeting about bicycles and pedestrians to include those miserable skateboard things that you that were motorized and I don't know what they're called but those guys just blow through stop signs and I swear they got Targets on it because I've almost hit each one of them so I'd like as we go forward we got to do something to address pedestrians motor vehicles and these motorized skateboards just an FYI and I've got one more question John this was probably maybe 18 months ago but we uh one of our meetings was about a parcel on sawaro kind of right in front of Desert Vista Park and they were going to the applicant wanted to build a second C dealership there and we approved it or we at least we sent a recommendation of approval to Town Council and this is where they've built this uh this storage yard which is the most just awful looking thing I've ever seen so just out of I don't whatever happened there like how did that end up going from that to that and how was that approved just curious chairman commissioner so I guess I'm not remembering the case that you are referring to that would have come through on that particular proper you're talking about Desert Vista Saro uh corner correct uh can run through quickly the history of what led to the current development on the property owned by the individual who has the impact Collision a little bit further up on Desert Vista purchased it uh brought in plans for putting a uh additional facility a building on the property to uh how some of the the vehicles as they were finishing up the repair process before owners would pick them up uh got that site plan approved and then uh had challenges with moving forward the building at that time and desired to go ahead and put up uh the wall and and uh some Paving waiting for the building to come along and so we're still waiting for the building to come along nice okay is it yeah so is this one of those instances where we well we didn't we ultimately just made a recommendation but we recommended something be changed and then it ended up coming back to Bas because they built that I mean it's just it's an ISO or for I think I mean right there on Saro right in front of a beautiful park it just uh commissioner sash I I don't remember the case that would have come through before that we didn't we there was something to do with uh with the body shop but I don't think I thought it was the car dealership because they they've got the one on colony and then they were going to have a second location there and they had plans the car dealership across the street from that we were duped on that was supposed to be a Jeep custom mod facility right and then that turned next day that was something different you did do the you did do the Su across the street on the other side yeah okay okay it's just one of those I guess his Point's valid that was a bait and switch it might not have been with us but there was a bait and for sure yeah it just it's sad to see that that I know people always complain about that can happen and that's I guess the firsthand account of where it did happen so now we have to live with it if we want to talk about mistakes I think another mistake that we made was we approved the uh I I can't remember I think it was a rezone and a special use permit to allow that um commercial down downstairs residential upstairs in front of that um kind of right in front of the what's that called the sreda and not sreda uh do that behind SAS no no no it's it's right next to King Street it's like King Street and swaro and every time I drive by that now on the weekend I see that parking lot full and Spilled Out into the street and I think we made a big mistake there that's just that um um place with a tiger on it what's that place yes they do like some big AMS well and the church too the church too so chairman if it makes you feel better that particular development is not going to happen property has been sold uh to the Eliot group what does that mean that means that Mr Kaufman who had the property before and got the sup approved so the Su is dead that's not going to happen so the Su doesn't convey then correct oh that's good dodged one there second chance so why' they take down the big tree they took Rick's sign too apparently just say wow code enforcement's getting I know that's why you can't read his signs anyway it's pointless thanks are we done I move to adjourn all right we're adjourned for