Flagstaff advances ADU guidance for Townsite historic district, approves El Pueblo and Babbot House preservation initiatives

Are we ready to go? Okay. Uh, today is the 18th of Thank you. February, 2026. This is the Heritage Preservation Commission meeting. I'm Duffy Westimer, chair. And um, I guess we need to start with the roll call. Call to order and the time. Call to order. Um, do I need to read this whole thing? I don't remember. Yes. And and and note the Yeah. The time we're starting. No, I didn't do the time. Call to order. The time is according to the city 4:00 p.m., but on my watch it's 4:08.

Time for roll call. Duffy Westimer here. Alec Overman present. Emily Dale present. Jesse Dominguez present. Alicia Hayes. Jeannie Stevens present. and Caitlyn Stewart present. Thank you. So, uh, would someone like to read the land acknowledgement? I can do so. Thanks, Jean. The Heritage Preservation Commission humbly acknowledges the ancestral homelands of this area's indigenous nations and original stewards.

These lands still inhabited by native descendants, border mountains sacred to indigenous peoples. We honor them, their legacies, their traditions, and their continued contributions. We celebrate their past, present, and future generations who will forever know this place as home. Thank you. Okay, now we have an open call to the public. Let's see here. Uh, Phil Scander, would you like to come up and speak, please? Good afternoon.

My name is Phil Scandura and I have lived in Flagstaff for 20 years. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. I'm here to raise awareness about a project that brings together two critical Flagstaff priorities, affordable housing and historic preservation. These priorities rarely intersect, but at the El PBLO Motel, they can. The El PBLO Motel is in danger of being lost to private redevelopment. After more than 5 years of unsuccessful development efforts, the current owner has decided to sell.

The buildings are deteriorating. The motel office has already been demolished, and if a private buyer moves forward, it is likely the remaining structures will be scraped away. If that happens, Flagstaff will lose an irreplaceable historic resource. Built in 1936, the El PBLO is the oldest remaining motel along Route 66 outside of the downtown area.

More importantly, it was built by Philip Johnston, the man who pioneered the idea of using the Navajo language to create the unbreakable code used by the Navajo codealkers during World War II. The code was never broken by the Japanese and became one of America's most v uh valuable military assets. The El PBLO served as Johnston's home base during his recruiting tours of the Navajo Nation. This property is not just an old motel.

It is directly connected to one of the most significant military and cultural contributions in American history. Previous preservation efforts have struggled because restoration alone is expensive and difficult to fund. My proposal takes a different approach. Adaptive reuse combined with affordable housing. I propose restoring the historic exterior of the motel while converting the interior into affordable housing units.

Additional standalone housing units would be built at the rear of the property to increase density and financial feasibility. The motel office would be rebuilt to accommodate a future museum dedicated to the El PBLO and the Navajo code talkers. This plan addresses two urgent community needs at once, housing and preservation. I've developed an action plan in collaboration with a nonprofit developer, a nonprofit builder, and a nonprofit architect. We are ready to move forward.

The primary obstacle is land acquisition. We do not have the funds to purchase the property and private fundraising would take too long. The window to act is limited. The city can purchase and sell property to meet critical community needs, including affordable housing. This project meets that need while also preserving an essential piece of Flagstaff's history.

I respectfully ask that you support bringing this proposal forward to city council and consider placing it on a future commission agenda for deeper discussion. Thank you. Thank you, Phil. David Hayward. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, I am in the uh fortunate position of having better news than Phil.

Um, we uh made an offer um to the existing owner of uh the David Babbot House um located where uh the former All Thrive affordable housing project was going to was going to go um at the site of the uh uh former Catholic school St. Mary's. Um that offer is currently in negotiations with All Thrive. Um I feel uh confident that that's going to go ahead and we're going to be able to to save that building. Um you know, not without some some money being spent, but we're going to be able to save it.

Um either way, um we'd had um a previous plan with the project to um consider sort of short-term housing needs for folks visiting town. Um that program um might have changed slightly um depending on the structure of the the acquisition that we we do with All Thrive. Um either way, um the the the the property will remain as a historic rehab. It'll just be a matter of what we use the interior for.

Um my plan currently is that we will um list the property on the National Register um and then come back to you guys for a local landmark listing. Um and most likely after that we will also be coming back to uh to us for some money through the uh through the grant program.

So the intention is to restore the the entire property um you know according to the secretary of interior interior's standards for historic rehabilitation uh so that we are eligible for the the 20% tax credits that the uh the federal government offers. So, I'm super excited that we were, you know, able to, well, let's cross our fingers, you know, knock on wood and all the or whatever other voodoo you need to do, but um we were able to save this building.

it has been uh but indefinitely postponed um any demolition on the project um until we can come to to a resolution and hoping that ends up with um you know whether even if it's someone else um who comes in and is is planning on saving it that's fine too. So I just wanted to give you guys a quick update. Um, if you do have further questions cuz we're not able to answer them now. Um, I think like half of the commission probably has has my email address.

Um, but you know, please do reach out to Duffy and she can she can put you in touch with me um, if you have any further questions. Um, and once we do get along um, you know, to actually opening the building up, um, I'd love to have you guys come in and and do a tour. So, thanks very much, guys. uh and enjoy the meeting and congratulations to uh Commissioner Stewart or commiserations depending on how you view it. Thank you for the update. Yes. Yes.

Chair, do you want to ask if there's any public comment online? Is there any public comment online? Oh, there she is. Okay. Um Margaret, are you here? Margaret's here from Williams to give us a little update on some success she's had with her Heritage Preservation Commission down Route 66 from us. Uh good afternoon everyone and appreciate the invite. Um yeah, I wasn't sure where you had me on the agenda so um but I'm glad to talk about it.

For those who don't know me, my name is and it looks like most everybody in the board does. Um, I am, yes, my name is Margaret Hang and I'm, uh, recently retired. It's been about a year now from the US Forest Service, um, the Tanto specifically, but for those who don't know, I was the forest archaeologist in the in on the Kaibab uh, for 15 years. So, I I live in Williams. Uh, I also chair our historic comm um historic uh, preservation commission in Williams.

Uh we're a much smaller group and clearly have a little less business than you all do, but um we certainly do have quite a bit in our primary area is the historic business downtown area of Williams and that's the main area we u focus on. Uh what Duffy has asked me to come talk about is our neon sign restoration project.

um one of our commission members who actually manages a small private uh museum here in Williams uh brought to my attention um the fact that Williams at one time was just a sea of neon signs. In fact, there were multiple companies and um sign companies in Williams at one point and we've lost almost all of them.

very few of the original neons are still in place and of the ones that are in place, they're struggling and um I don't need to tell this commission how expensive neon is to maintain and especially signs that are dating from the 1950s. Uh so after some discussion, we went ahead and um got into partnership with a local nonprofit, the Williams Historic um uh Williams Alliance for the Arts, uh who uh whose focus is on the art gallery here in town.

And working with partnership with them, we decide to undertake going after um grants to restore three signs. Now, um that was in partnership with the nonprofit, but also obviously with the owners. Uh the three signs we're looking at were the Sultana. Um and then also the Canyon Club signs, which are actually the both those businesses and buildings are actually under the same ownership. And then the third sign we looked at was the Turquoise Tepee. Uh which Yes. Excuse me for a second.

The there is a timer. So, uh, if you can Oh, yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Thank you. I'm sorry. I didn't tell you that to start with. No, you didn't tell me that to start with. Oh, so bottom line is we did get funded and uh we are moving forward with the project. We got two funds. One through the Route 66 Historic Association, the other through the National Trust. Um, in fact, the project is in in progress right now.

So two of the signs, Sultana and Turquoise TB have been removed for the first time and are in restoration process in in Phoenix and then they are in fact working on Canyon Club right now. Uh the the hope is the project will be done in um by mid-March uh weather dependent. Um Duffy, what else did you want me to touch on? I just wanted people to know what's going on in Williams and what you're doing and the success you're having. So, thank you very much. Sure. Uh, any questions?

We can't ask questions. It's public participation. My bad. As I said, you guys are much more complicated than we are in Williams. All right. Well, thank you. And if there are any questions, uh, Daffy knows how to get a hold of me. Thank you. Thanks, Margaret. Next is the approval of the minutes. Does anyone have any uh comments, questions, changes? Nobody. Okay, I have two. What a surprise.

One is sort of a staff question where it mentions that there are public comments were provided by three people. It doesn't say anything about what they wanted to speak about. Maybe you can't say what they said, but can we say what their topic was? Or can we say what their message was? You want me to repeat that? You you'd like the public comment clarified in the in the minutes? Yeah. Um I think it either you know what I don't know what is allowed but it doesn't say what their topic was.

It doesn't say even the most basic of what their message was. Is that possible to do? I think yeah that a topic could be added if um yeah if you'd like to if everyone else would like to add that is the motion that it'd be corrected to have the topic added. Would anyone like to make a motion that public participation comments should have a topic added in the minutes? Um, I'll make a motion to add topics to public comments in the minutes.

I was just going to say, did you want to add any other corrections first before Yes, I have one other. Uh, in the Thank you, Alec. In the special meeting request, it's phrased that what my request was was that we were going to write a letter recommending acquisition of a landmark structure, but that wasn't what I said. So that's what Sarah said we could do. What I said is to communicate to council the importance of the building. I was not saying we should direct their action.

And I just was saying as a commission to say this qualifies as a contributing important historic structure in Flagstaff. That was my intent and that and I listened to it. Um so what I actually said is I would like to advise council on the importance of the Babbitts that house and trying to save it because it is more important than six parking spaces. That's what I said. Um, but that's not what's here. So, if we could get that clarified.

Yeah, I think we could clarify that that um what staff suggested per the commission's authority and what you requested in the in the notes. Okay, those are my the two things I noticed in the minutes. Anyone else come up with anything? I guess that's a no. So, Alec, would you like to do the the motion again, please? I would like to make a motion to include topic in the meeting minutes on public comment. We should also uh move to approve the minutes at the same time.

Alec, if you could add the correction I mentioned and then move to approve the minutes at the time. Thank you, Emily. Okay. and to approve the meeting minutes and to add Duffy's correction about our letter to city council to state the importance of the Babbot House to the Flagstaff history and move to approve the minutes and to approve many minutes. Thank you. And I second that. Any further discussion? If I hear none, I guess we vote. Any eyes? I Any nazs? Seems to pass unanimously. Thank you.

The next item is staff recommended actions number 6A general business flag staff accessory dwelling unit model plans library in the uh currently soul residential historic district towns site historic overlay zone. Thank you. and Lauren Clementino, heritage preservation officer. And I'm being joined online um by two of my City of Flagstaff colleagues who are unable due to the weather to be here with us in person, but are going to help um present online and I'll let them introduce themselves.

Hi, good afternoon. Um thanks for having me today. My name is Genevie Perry. I'm with the Flag Staff Sustainability Office. Um and I'm joined by my colleague Jamie Larson. Jamie, do you want to introduce yourself? Hi, I'm Jamie Larson and I'm also with the office of sustainability as the housing and transportation coordinator. Awesome. And we're going to be tag teaming on this presentation. Um so I was thinking I'll start it and then um we'll just go from there if that sounds good. Okay.

Uh, let me share my screen and then I will do the presentation and I'm gonna turn my camera off while I'm presenting. Okay. Uh, great. Okay. Well, again, thanks for having us here today. Um, we are going to be talking about the Flagstaff Accessory Dwelling Unit model plans library. a little bit of background information on that. Then I'll pass it over to Lauren who will be talking about towns site design standards and guidelines.

And then Jamie will talk about the different ADU model plans that are in the library that are currently in the library. Um and then Lauren will finish it off with discussing how this relates to heritage preservation commission with some um discussion questions for looking at how these ADUs could fit into town site. Uh, so the first part, accessory dwelling units.

So I feel like everyone knows what they are, but just in case, um, it's a second and complete living space on a property that already has a single family home. Um, they're also known as backyard cottages, cassitas, carriage homes, and many, many other names. Um, there's a lot of benefits to ADUs. um they're actually called out in both the city's um 10-year housing plan as well as the carbon neutrality plan because they can help grow Flagstaff's housing supply.

Um and we do, you know, have a declared uh the city council declared a climate emergency and a housing emergency back in 2021. Um, so this can help address those needs for housing supply as well as supporting housing diversity um and increasing the supply of smaller units that tend to be um less costly to own and operate in terms of energy efficiency. Um, they're also really valuable because they can be built in existing neighborhoods with access to existing infrastructure and transportation.

Um, so that really helps with in terms of promoting compact development that can excuse me. Genevieve. Uhu. um if you could back up a little bit and repeat yourself and slow down because the way it's coming through it's hard to understand you. Maybe it's just me, but I'd like to hear what you have to say. So, thank you. Okay. Um let me hold on just sec this presentation. Whoops. I accidentally turned on subtitles. I'm not sure how to turn that off. Does anybody know?

Okay, let me try one more time. Okay. So, um, accessory dwelling units or ADUs, uh, they are a second and complete living space on a property with a single family home. They're also known as backyard cottages, cassitas, carriage homes, and many other names. There are a lot of benefits to ADUs um, for Flagstaff to help Flagstaff meet its housing and climate goals. Uh, they help grow Flagstaff's housing supply.

They support um their smaller units, so they increase the supply of smaller units available to the Flagstaff community. They can be built in neighborhoods where there's existing infrastructure, so you don't you're densifying existing neighborhoods, not building out in the forest necessarily.

um they provide supplemental income to homeowners, but they also offer the potential for folks living in an ADU to have more affordable rent and also utilities because they're tend to be smaller, so less costly to operate. Uh they can also foster improved social connections among residents. Um and they can create more flexible housing options for households of all sizes.

So they can support multi-generational living, uh, caregiving and other things like that where you might where a family or um the household might benefit from having that additional living space on their property. So the city of Flagstaff created an ADU model plans library for several reasons. Um, really the ultimate goal is to promote ADUs in Flagstaff, grow the supply of ADUs in Flagstaff. Um, so the first part of that is to have pre-approved all electric and energy efficient plans.

Um, and I'll talk about what pre-approved means, but basically it makes it easier um in the design process. Uh, the second goal is to increase awareness of ADUs and their benefits to Flag Staff. Um, and then making it easier to go through the permitting process and reducing the cost to design and permit ADUs. The last one is just to connect homeowners with design professionals.

Um, and this has been a collaboration between a lot of different divisions in the city of Flagstaff, including sustainability, but also building safety, housing, planning, and many more. Um, so part of this, taking a step back, um, the city, we did a survey back in the fall of 2023, I believe, um, looking at what barriers, what barriers exist in Flagstaff to building ADUs.

Um, and the survey identified quite a few and not all of them can be addressed with a model plans library, but the ones in the middle can potentially. Um, so basically having pre-approved plans, the process is that they go through the building plan review. So, city staff reviews these plans to make sure they meet the building code and anything having to do with the building structure itself. So, any um so yeah, just making sure they fit and they would work as an ADU.

Um, so they've already gone through that process. So then when someone comes in and says they want to build an ADU on their property, um, the review is easier. Uh, so basically we're just looking to make sure it fits on the lot. We already know it meets building code. Um, and so that's where it makes that design process easier because it's already designed. We're just making sure it fits on the lot. Um, so it can help reduce the cost of designing an ADU.

It can also help um make it easier to find someone to design an ADU since this plan's already been designed. Just connect folks with the designer. Um and then it makes it easier to navigate the city design and permitting process because again it's already gone through that detailed building plan review. So when someone does submit a permit application to use a pre-approved plan, the review is a lot simpler. And because of that, the city permitting fees are lower as well.

So that those are the barriers that the model plans library intends to alleviate. There are other barriers to building ADUs. Those are listed on these slides on this slide. They're a little bit outside of the scope of the model plans library, but always looking at creative ideas to to foster ADUs. So, as a library grows and other ADU programs come into place, they may address other barriers, but for now, we're focused on the barriers that model plans can help alleviate.

So, in the library, um, these are detached ADUs. So, those are basically there's only plans for standalone buildings. There are no plans for attached ADUs or ADUs. It's called an interior ADU. So that's like a a um an attic or a basement or some sort of um ADU that's inside the home. So there's different kinds of ADUs, but again the library the plans in the library are only looking at detached ADUs. Um and we have there's three um there's the ADU model plans website and there's three main pages.

So, I'll just click on that really quickly just to show you what it looks like. Um, so you can get a sense and basically this is the homepage. So, it just talks about what an ADU is and why they're important. So, that's some of the stuff I've already talked about. Um, but then it goes into the model plans library. So, this and we're going to look at these designs in the um presentation a little bit later, but for now you can see that um each model plan has its own page.

And then you click on it, you do view details, it goes to its own page, so you can see a lot of information about it. Um, and then you can contact the designer at the bottom. So I'm just scrolling through and so there's information about floor plans, building elevation, some of them have more information, and there's the designer contact information. So there's a page for each of these um, ADU model plans.

So again, we'll talk about the design elements in detail later in this presentation, but that's basically how the library works. So if someone's interested in building one of these ADUs at their home, they simply have to contact the designer, pay their reuse fee, and get a building permit um and be able to build it. Now, so that's a little bit different in town sites, that's why we're here today, but that's kind of the general process.

Um and then before I move on, the last thing is the frequently asked question. So, I mentioned that this website's intended to be kind of a hub of information about accessory dwelling units. So, that's what this is. There's a lot of um frequently asked questions on this page. I won't scroll down and show all them, but it's like over 30, so quite a few. So, anyway, this is just the beginning and the goal is to continue to grow the library.

Um, but for now, we have 12 plans in the library and that's what we'll be talking about today. And if more are added to the library in the future, we can definitely come back to HPC to share those plans. Uh so going back to the presentation, um the next one, so I mentioned the process. So and I I went over this briefly, but in a little more detail. So someone is interested in building an ADU in their property. They can browse the library, look at the plans, pick one that they like.

um you know, good idea to do some background research to ensure that the ADU will fit. Um whether it's due to setbacks or access issues or other things like that, you want to make sure that an ADU is going to be able to fit on the property before going too far down the road of trying to get an ADU built. Um so once they do that, then they contact the plan designer, pay their reuse fee to get access to the full plans because again, the the website only has a preview.

It doesn't have the full plans. Um, and then the designer can work to prepare a site plan for the property, verify that it will fit on the property, and then help them select any pre-approved customization options. So, as you've seen in your packet, some of the ADU model plans have pre-approved customization options, and some of them don't. So, if they have any, the designer can help them select those pre-approved options um for then step 4.5.

So, that's a special step for uh properties and town sites. So, they do need to receive a certificate of appropriateness from HPC before applying for the city of Flagstaff building permit. Um, so that's where HPC would be seeing these um before they even apply for their building permit.

And then once and if they get a certificate of appropriateness and do apply for that building permit, then once it's approved, they would need to choose their contractor and builder, construct the ADU, get their certificate of occupancy, and then enjoy the benefits of having an ADU. So, that's kind of the general process. Um, I'm happy to answer questions, but I'm also happy to just pass it on to Lauren uh to talk about town site so design guidelines and standards.

Um, so if anyone has questions, please let me know. Otherwise, uh, Lauren, it's all up to you. Okay. Thanks, Genevieve. And so in a in a minute here, we're gonna look through some of the the plans. But before we jump in there, I thought I'd start with a little frame of reference about um you know, the town site and the standards and guidelines.

Um just so we're we're thinking about that as as we go through the plans and the specific details of like the the types of things that we want to look at.

Um so just of you know here here is a map of the overlays that we have and as you all know we really just have the two um overlay zones and as the downtown is primarily commercial um and you know we're really not planning to see ADUs there but towns site is the overlay with design standards where we are planning um to you know potentially see ADUs. So that's why uh we're you know primarily focusing there on this conversation. Go ahead to the next slide.

Um and so of course through that um and so those of you who've been on the commission for a while have seen certificates of appropriateness come in for review uh for ADUs in townsite and that will still be the process um for these model plans. But now is kind of a chance to to go through them before you see them come in for a certificate of appropriateness. Um, and kind of get a first crack at reviewing everything.

Um, and hopefully um, you know, we'll have some discussion later about maybe providing some guidance. Um, but so here is I know you know you all know this and I plagiarized this slide of mine from a previous presentation but our general criteria of approval for certificate of appropriateness and I just bolded like the last line which is that um as new work it the proposed work has to be consistent with the applicable development standards and design guidelines.

So that's really what we're here to talk about um this afternoon is um which of these are going to fit that. So yeah, go ahead. Thank you. Um so first the standards. So I didn't include all of the standards here, but I I picked out um the ones that I usually highlight in staff reports that are going to be applicable to um ADUs. And um some of them some of the standards are going to be sight specific, right?

Like we're not going to know um like under B site whether or not the ADU has main access from the street until we see it come in on a site plan for a certificate of appropriateness. But some of the some of these things we can tell now general things like the style that I've bolded here, you know, that um it it generally fits um within the mixed architectural style of town site.

Um and then but much of the other things like in terms of comparing the secondary and subservient nature of the ADU to the house, its um location on the site, whether or not it's going to meet that 100 or sorry thousand square feet of contiguous yard space requirement, we would have to we would look at during a certificate of appropriateness, but we aren't going to know until we're um we're looking at a sight specific plan. Go ahead to the next one.

Um but there are some other things that are good to keep in mind while that we can talk about today.

So the first thing I bolded here is um and as you know this is this has recently changed but the town site standards um call for secondary structures to not exceed 16 feet in height which now um due to the new ADU law um it can be up to 25 feet um in height which is the same as the primary um structure but um 16 feet at this point we're considering you know still a guideline of what um the the standards is hoping to achieve, although 25 ft is allowed.

Um, and then but the roof pitch um is good to keep in mind. As you may have noticed previewing the packet, some of the these designs do not meet the 6 over12 roof pitch requirement. So that is going to be a good one, a good standard to keep in mind. And then also um materials, details, colors generally compatible with historic structures on an individual property and within the surrounding neighborhood. Go ahead to the next one. Um and then this is uh some excerpts from the guidelines section.

Um so not the thou shall standards um but the suggested guidelines. Um and again the architectural details um you know are being repeated that typical seen on existing homes in the neighborhood are used as a model for future design. So, kind of going back to that, what um which of these maybe fits that lens? And then some of the other things about viewscapes and neighborhood privacy, again, we would have to review that on a site by-sight specific basis.

But those were the just the sort of background things I wanted to keep in mind before we move on to the tour section. So, thank you and I'll pass it back. Great. Thank you, Lauren and Genevie. Um, I'll now take us through the ADU model plan tour. So note that all these ADUs can be placed on multiple foundation types. There's going to be 12 different ADU plans that we're going to go through. You do have them in your packet as well.

So I'll be kind of briefly touching on each one and feel free to stop us um if you have any questions. So first design here we have the cozy cottage. Um, this comes with three different siding options as well as an optional um, pergola over the back door. And this comes with three different floor plans, either one or two bedrooms or one or two bathrooms. It also has two different roof pitches and two different heights and two different square footages that are available.

So here we can see the two different roof pitches a little bit better as well as the elevations. And here again we can see two two of the three different sidings. That's the board and batten and the stucco. Next we have the three peaks design. So this comes with three triangular dormers. These are optional to put on. Uh it has one floor plan, um a roof pitch of 8 over 12, um height of 17 ft and 6 in as well as one of our larger ADUs at 792 square ft.

So here we can see the elevations for this design. Next we have Green Gables. Um, this comes with two different roof options as well as two different roof lines. That being side gabled or front back gabled. This has one floor plan with two different roof pitches available, two different heights. Um, but it is the same square footage of 5204 square ft. And then this design has shows like has two different options. So here's option one elevations and then option two.

All right, number four we have grandma's contemporary. So this main sighting material would be stucco though the designer note that other sightings options are available. This floor plan includes one bed, one bath. It has two different types of roof pitch um and then one roof height as well. And then it's 708 square ft. All right. And then here are the elevations for Grandma's Contemporary. Number five, we have the dwell.

There's um no exterior customizations specifically mentioned um by the designer. This building has one floor plan, one roof pitch of 6 over 12, height of 15 ft, and it's one of our smaller designs at 440 square ft. And then here are those elevations for the dwell. All right, number six, we have the Juniper. This has an optional covered front porch. Um, and it gives the customer the choice of exterior roofing, siding, entry door style, and window, which could be operable, fixed, or emitted.

All right. And here is the building elevations for this design. This design is a studio and has one roof pitch of 6 over 12, stands at 14 ft and 9 in and is 384 square ft. All right, number seven is Grandpa's ADU. The designer does not specifically mention exterior customizations. Uh, this has one floor plan, a roof pitch of 6 over 12, a height of 16 ft 10 in, and square footage of 682 square feet. All right. And here are the elevations for Grandpa's ADU. Next, we have Silver Bush.

Uh so this has two different roof lines and two different roof pitches available. This has only one floor plan. Um that roof pitch is 8 over 12, stands at 19 ft 2 in and is 723 square ft. Right. And here's the um it comes with two different options for the outside. So, here's option one with the building elevations, and here is option two with a little bit of a higher roof. And number nine, uh, this one has one floor plan with two beds and one bath, a roof pitch of 6 over 12.

It stands at 16 ft and is 741 square ft. Right. And here are the building elevations. Next is um the Ponderosa. So again, this one has an optional covered front porch and a choice of exterior roofing, siding, entry door style, and choice of window. Here are the building elevations for the Ponderosa. Has one floor plan with two beds and two bath. Roof pitch of 6 over 12, height at 16 ft 9 in and 768 square ft. And number 11, we have the equilibrium. Uh this is a studio with one bath.

Um you can see is a very steep roof pitch there at a height of 16 ft and 11 3/4 in and is 419 square ft. And here you can see the building elevations for this design. As you can see it has stairs coming off both the front and the back end. And lastly, we have the simple home. This has an optional porch and deck. Uh has one floor plan with two beds and one bath, a roof pitch of 42. The height is uh 12 ft and 750 square ft. All right. And then I'll pass it off. Okay, thank you.

You can go ahead and Yeah, perfect. Thanks. Okay, so just um so just to recap, so now you've seen the 12 plans in the model library and if any of them were to come forward and be proposed for a site in the town site, you know, that would still require a certificate of appropriateness. So we would still be doing that sight specific review of the town site standards and guidelines. Um and I like usual would be still provide a staff report you know assessing all of those.

Um but you know what like I said before but now is a chance to do that preview. So, you know, um one of the reasons I reached out to Genevieve and asked, um if we could get this on an HPC agenda, um was just so, you know, we could have that exposure now, um to the designs and what the process is and kind of understand all the background before we actually get anything to review.

Um, I also think it's a really good chance to be proactive and encourage the designs that um, me as the HBO and you as the commission would like to see in the town site, you know, encourage what's most compatible um, you know, which by maybe doing doing some of that discussion right now, you know, which of these don't right off the top do not meet the standards um, and which look like they could be compatible.

Um, and I think, you know, and in doing this, that will help property owners in Townsite, you know, navigate the model library. Um, and then make the process easier and smoother for Townsite property owners. And if and so some discussion questions, we're not limited to those, but these are some that we came up with um to discuss here. and we're happy to answer any other questions you have as well.

Um, but some things, you know, we we would like to see if we can take away today are, you know, identifying which of the ADUs do currently meet appear to meet the town site requirements. Of course, you know, knowing that we'd still have to look at them on a siteby-sight basis. um and maybe which ones could with modifications.

Um you know, some of the things that were noted there, different types of sighting, um different roof options, different porch options, um and go over any other questions or considerations that you may have.

Um, and this can look, you know, different, but a goal or a potential outcome that I foresee is, you know, maybe me writing up a memo of, you know, what we've identified as, you know, likely meeting the standards um, and clearly not meeting the standards that we can publish, you know, have available on the website, uh, you know, maybe in their FAQ section.

So that way just really guide people to steer them in the right direction before they apply um for uh using one of the model plans on the town site. And yeah, chair, do you have a question or want to start us off? I was just going to ask if any commission members want to ask questions or comment. I have a quick question comment. Um, first of all, this is a very good presentation. I enjoyed it greatly. Um, I'm curious like what the history is behind this presentation.

Like where did they get these um design concept ideas for the ADUs from staff did? Yeah, I can answer that. Yeah, thank you um commissioner for that question. I had that another presentation but I took it out on this one just for brevity sake. Um, so basically they were selected through a request for informal proposals. Um, that was back in early 2025, so about a year ago.

And they were selected by a pretty large committee of community partners and city staff um, who ranked them according to the scoring criteria in the request for informal proposals and that's how they were selected. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Anyone else? I have a question. So, I'm curious.

Um I know uh that the ADUs are approved site by sight and that would you know that's addressed a little bit further down the line but looking at the square footages of the various ADUs and like the historic you know the smaller yards of some of the historic properties in the town site um and the contiguous yard requirements you know in some of the guidelines like is there a a size that's more um appropriate for some of you know, an ADU in one of the historic neighborhoods in the town site or are the larger units pretty compatible in terms of meeting the requirements for the minimum yard size and all of that um as they are like are all of these in terms of their size acceptable?

I and I'm gonna start off and then Genevie if you want to add go ahead. Um, so just one other piece of background information. The new ADU state law that's passed that allows everyone on a single family property to build an interior attached ADU plus a detached ADU does allow them to be up to 800 square ft.

Um there are additional size requirements after that like if it goes above 800 square f feet it has to be I think it's less than 75% of the square footage of the home but it is 800 square f feet minimum however it still has to meet all the other requirements right so all of the general site requirements that you know any new build would need to meet.

So like like you've identified um that um all all of those site requirements in the town site guidelines and plus just the general city um site requirements setbacks and the like. So that is one thing to keep in mind is that for the most part if it met everything else you could pretty much right out the gate because of state law that of course preempts um city code you could have 800 square feet. Um, so that's one frame of mind.

Um, and so and also a good thing to consider that several of these are quite a bit smaller than that. Um, so there there is that to note, but it does still need to meet those other requirements. So we have we approved one a couple um months ago that was just it was like 760 square feet in the town site. Um, so for reference, um, a single story, the commission also recently approved a two-story one, but I don't know that that's as good of an example.

Um, it's not that the same scale as these, but I want to say, yeah, that like 760 square feet um, on birch recently. Um, but it is very sight specific. And Genevie, do you want to correct me if I got any of that wrong? No, it's all right. I just wanted to add uh just generally about the library. The ADUs range from a little under 400 square ft to just a little bit over 800 right now. You know, that can change depending on if there's more plans in the future.

It likely will as the library grows, but right now they're in that little under 400 to a little over 800 square foot range. And they all are one story at this point. Thank you. Commissioner Dominguez. Yeah, I have a question. Um, now does the primary home have to be owner occupied? I can Well, I I don't want to There are zoning code does have some requirements depending on if it's rented shortterm or long term.

I believe that if it's rented short-term, the owner has to either be in the ADU or in the single family home. Um, I don't think that's a requirement for long-term. I see our one of our city attorneys is on the call, so please correct me if that was incorrect. Um, but that's my understanding.

Well, I was just wondering, you know, that I'm thinking of some of the other older neighborhoods that I I know have become rentals, and I was just wondering if if if a absentee landlord could come in there and do an ADU on his property. I think as long as they meet all relevant development standards, they can build the ADU. Thank you. Anyone else? Okay.

So, I have the house bill here and it what it says is and I don't know if the city changed this, but an accessory dwelling unit that is 75% of the gross floor area of the single family dwelling which would be the primary dwelling in town site um on the same lot. Did the city change that to be 800 ft? because that's larger than or as large of some as some of the houses in all the historic neighborhoods including Townsite.

My understanding is and I I don't know of the of a change and I don't have the bill in front of me to look through all of the language, but it does say what you've just cited um that it's 75% however you with a minimum allowed of 800 square feet. I don't see that in the law, but I don't know what you know if the city added that. I not sure. I just wanted to clarify what was looking at House Bill 2720. So, I do have some comments.

Um, so if you look at a map of the lots in the city of Flagstaff, the smallest lots are all in the historic neighborhoods and there are many converted garages. So, any design that looks like a 1920s converted garage is probably the most appropriate in town site. So, like the A-frame would not be appropriate. Um, oh, but I first I want to say this. Um, thank you for doing the chart because that was really helpful and uh greatly appreciated to quickly go through them.

Another comment I have and just to identify for Genevieve and others, I am a co-author of the townside overlay with the help of the heritage preservation officer at that time. So I'm very familiar with what's in it. Uh and so uh it does say that when we're looking at roof pitches, what it does say it shall be over 612. So a lot of these are 612. So that could be problematic.

Um also we have with other projects that have come in um including recent approvals approved 612 like as the minimum not that it has to be you know 6.1 over 12. I'm just telling you what it says shall be over 612. If we want to do an exception that's another thing right? So if we want to make that an exception to stick it 612, but what it the wording is shall be over 612. So all of these as they come through, maybe they can be revised or something or we do an exception.

I'm that's just what the overlay says. Another thing that has changed with this law is a 5-ft setback. And um a 5ft setback is not a yard. I can stand up. I'm actually over 5t tall, believe it or not. But it's a very small area and it's not a yard. So I know I've had this conversation uh with staff before, but we did not when we wrote that overlay yard did not include a 5-ft setback. You can't plant a tree in a 5-ft setback without it rubbing against your house or your neighbor's house.

You can't put a swing set in a 5-ft setback. So when the setbacks are that tight, I don't think that that area should be included in a yard calculation as an author of the overlay. Um those are my main comments. Commissioner Stevens, I have another comment. Thank you. So um this is a very interesting presentation. Um you know one one thing that came to mind is as the different um uh plans are being you know are published the final publishing of them.

Um you know maybe a score for how well they adhere to like the town site um overlay um would be helpful for people who are planning to use these. And I know that um Lauren, you had said that like with modifications, the plans, some some of the ones that don't seem to be um in in alignment with the town site or other historic neighborhoods could be. And so I just thought that maybe like a scoring system would be helpful for people um as they're looking at these. So it's just a general comment.

Thank you. Yes. And I I mean I would love if the outcome was you know to to have that to have a memo that I you know produced and I can bring back to HBC at a future meeting but that said you know okay so the A-frame not appropriate does not meet site requirements. Um you know these are appropriate on a sight specific basis but something that would be that frame of reference. Um because some of them Yeah.

I mean, um, and like you said, maybe the ones that do meet it straight out, the ones that could meet it with modifications and we can and if we want to back up and actually go through them maybe one at a time. Um, and note that. Um, or if the, you know, commission would rather that I take a first stab at that, we can do that as well. And pass to you, Genevieve. Yeah, thank you. I think that's a a great idea, though.

I like the idea of a score at least kind of putting them in those categories of what what Lauren just mentioned. So, um, thank you for that suggestion. And I just wanted to clarify too that I mentioned these are pre-approved model plans. So, they have gone through the city's review process already for compliance with our building code as well as any codes that really affect the building envelope. Um, and so when we mention modifications, that gets tricky because they are pre-approved.

So depending on the scope of the modifications, it can kick these plans back into custom plans and then you lose a lot of the benefits of having pre-approved plans. So um you know, and that's that's always an option. So I think if that's something like for example a uh one of the homes has maybe a 412 roof pitch, we know that that's not going to work for towns site, but with a modification to 612 or greater, perhaps it could work, but that's a very large modification.

And so that would kick it into a custom plan. And so I think and that's always an option. Someone can see a plan and say, "I love this plan, but I want to make these modifications. I'm fine with working with the designer to update the the building plans, basically go through another plan review. I'm fine with that." And sometimes there will be uh property owners who want to do that. Um but you do lose the benefit of having that pre-approved option.

I think other things that are simpler, um, you know, I'm not a building code expert, so don't quote me on this, but things like siding are probably easier to modify. Um, so I think there's probably different levels of modifications. And so I think that would either keep a plan, a pre-approved model plan, or would kick it into that custom review because that means the designer would have to go back and basically redesign the the building envelope. So that's just something to keep in mind.

don't I I think that if um the commission has recommendations for modifications that would need to be made for a plan to meet the towns site standards definitely suggest them. I think it's good to document that. It's just some they may not be model plans anymore if all of those customization or um updates happened in order to meet the standards.

Lauren, when if you do this memo, could you put in the the requirements of historic preservation that it not mimic the historic house that it is subservient and the sighting should not be exactly the same. It should look like it's a new building, not an old building. Can you add that? That would be great. And simpler windows, whatever it is that differentiates it from the historic. Sure. Yeah, that could be.

Yeah, just other general guidelines for how to meet the standards in addition to like yes or no this specific design does. Here are some other general guidelines to follow. Like it shouldn't be a mini me. Then there are options because there's so much variation in that neighborhood. Um if you have a clapboard house, maybe do stucco. So it's clearly a different building. Anyone else? Oh, thank you, Genevie.

And I'm glad you're here because historic preservation is about as sustainable a model as you can come up with. So, thanks. Come back. Thanks for having me. And just to clarify, so is the commission generally likes the idea of of a memo and I would prepare it um you know with uh Genevieve and Jamie and to bring it back to a future commission meeting that demutable. Okay. Is everyone okay with that? All right. Thank you.

And Nancy, can you hit that button to share my have me share my screen again so the folks online can see. Thank you for that presentation. Next we have the proposed brand and overlay zone update with Lauren. All right. Well, sorry. minor technical issues switching back from um someone else screen sharing to the room. Um so I apologize to you online if you can't see that I've pulled the agenda back up. We're working working on on that. Um yes it did. Okay, there we go. We're we're there.

Thank you Sarah. Um so uh I am going to do a brief presentation answer questions on a proposed Brandon historic overlay zone. Um there is a neighborhood within the Flagstaff Southside historic district that would like to create a new historic overlay zone. Um so it is not the you know entire Flagstaff Southside historic district. It's a a smaller area within that um that's primarily residential. Uh and so they have been um talking for a number of years.

I got involved in the project last year and at that point you know they were already probably um four or five years into this discussion. Um they had been on they paused for a few years and then wanted to start the discussion again. Um so really you know today you don't have anything in front of you to review yet. So, I just wanted to to give an update and answer some questions um before that happens, before we we get there um to when that would be happening.

Um and so, uh so in the agenda, um we included a link to a neighborhood meeting that was held at the end of last month. Um and this was, um not an an official, you know, neighborhood meeting per city code, but an more informal meeting.

Um there's been a small group of neighbors who've been working on this in the background and they hosted a meeting at the Murdoch Center to let everyone else know what they're working on um and to start getting that investment with their neighbors, answer questions um and start getting everyone involved in the process. So, we included that um we recorded the meeting and included a link to where it is on the city's YouTube page um if you would like to go and um take a look at that.

And I'm just going to pull up our code real quick here. So, this is the heritage preservation code and the section on development of of uh sorry, clicked the wrong one. Got to go farther. Went too far down. This is the section on um how an overlay is created just to have some kind of visual as I'm talking here. Um so what is the process for creating an overlay zone and where are they?

Um so to create an overlay both 51% of the properties within the overlay 51 or more um need to be historic properties. Um and also 51% of the property owners within the overlay also um need to sign a petition agreeing you know to to sign up for the overlay um and its design standards which would need to be created. So again we've just been talking about town site and town sites design standards you know that is the process that this group is working on right now.

Um so they have so that with that background framework you know they've been deciding you know where are the proposed boundaries how could they get to that you know make sure they've got at least 51% contributing historic properties um within the district there um they have chosen to focus on residential properties in order to create design guidelines that um are not going to have to also encompass all of the commercial properties along you know San Isco and Beaver um and the major corridors there and you know in order to get to that 51% of pro or more of property owner support um that hence some of the the discussion in the meeting last week.

So they have been um working on drafting design standards. They have um sent that to me for review. I've provided some initial comments um as well as other city staff and now the neighborhood is also you know working on that as their own group to make sure they're all in agreement. Some things that came up in the meeting um very differing opinions on what the maximum height would be um for development within the overlay zone.

So some things like that that they need to you know work on getting consensus on as a group before they finalize the design standards. Um once they've got that um you know pretty wrapped up, they can actually start going and getting petition signatures.

So that would be um uh you know agreeing to having these design standards and being in the overlay for your property and um then to actually before it you know officially will come into the city and then to the commission um they would be applying for a zoning code uh text amendment um as well as map amendment and um so here you can kind of see in the graphic. So so create a new historic overlay district.

So they would be coming in with those applications which are going to um require having the design standards prepared and also having um all of the petitions prepared.

Um so that will be you know kind of that's the phase they're in right now is finalizing the design standards then getting all of those signatures and then actually applying um to the city um because it would be you know a reszone essentially for the map amendment text amendment um they have to do both of those applications um they will um have to do a formal neighborhood meeting so that's with public noticing more formal than the informal meeting they had.

Um they will have to do that before um it comes to the commission. Um but then the commission will be reviewing this application and the design standards. Um you know with commission approval then it would go on to planning and zoning commission um and then finally to city council. So quite um a long process ahead.

they're still in although as I mentioned they're several years in they're also still pretty in fairly early stages um of the process as there's no you know official there anything on any of our agendas yet um and so that is the the main update I have I can also pull up if you're interested this is the the map that we helped um them prepare and essentially So this is, you know, we've got Butler down at the bottom.

This is the eastern edge um north of Butler, and that is also the northern portion of the the northern limits um along Cottage and Phoenix of the Southside district. And could you identify the two colors, the golden? Yeah. So, the um sorry I cut that off, but the green are designated contributors to the historic district and the yellow were non-contributors as of the district listing. So, you're referring to the National Register District. Yes.

And so, this is uh as it is the National Register listed district um with those designations. That's what was used to come up with the math for this is at least 51% designated historic buildings. So, as you can see, there are some that are uh that are not um contributors to the district. Um some through age, some through previous alterations um and la loss of integrity. Um, and some are, you know, this is the Murdoch Center. These are the two new habitat houses down at the bottom.

Any questions or comments from commission members? Okay. Uh, I'm happy to see this moving forward because I know a lot of people there and they're excited about it. they they love their neighborhood, which is it can't get better than residents and owners loving their neighborhood. And I would just add to that, this is a very neighborhoodled process.

this is this is a group of neighbors who you know who really want this um and is if you really get into the weeds of of this section of the code it is kind of you know it it can be neighborhoodled and and it works you know better if it is because they do need that 51% of or more majority of property owner support. So um and we'll update you as we go through the process. If I may, I'll just say that the town site overlay was resident owners driven and we had 78% support twice.

So, there was a little glitch there and we had to revote and we still had 78%. Which is awesome in anything. No other comments or questions. So, now we go on to item uh C. What is that? 6C, historic signs and facades grant tracking. Lauren? Yes. So, um the update this month to the spreadsheet is just that um to reflect that we awarded a grant last month. Um so, that has been added to the list.

Um, and I did not have time to add it to the agenda, but I have seen um the new windows that were proposed and they are woodclad, so they're going to meet um you know all of the standards that we wanted to see. Um so, uh we I believe just within the last week issued the building permit. So that is moving forward. So I think it'll be moving forward on track to be reimbursed this fiscal year. Um which is great news. And of course we do still have quite a bit of funding available.

So tell your friends and tell um talk it up, continue to talk it up in the community. We're um very eager to support projects that can use this fiscal year's money. Uh and um and of course no no new grant applications, but hopefully um maybe we will see some next month. Any questions? Okay. Okay. Moving on. reports from Lauren. Approvals, please. Yeah. So, I have um three certificates of no effect um that I approved administratively.

The first um is kind of a somewhat odd one um and that it is a property where uh it's in the town site. A shed came in for a minor improvement permit. Um but because it is in the town site and had needs the design guidelines um you know the accessory structures and also the fencing were both added to the permit. Um but it met the criteria for certificate of no effect. Um the second is somewhat unique because we it's on the Our Lady of Guadalupe property which we don't see.

We mostly just look at things that are in the overlays, but we do of course have um our individual landmarks which still also need certificates. Um so this is re- roofing in kind on the convent building. Um behind the Our Lady of Guadalupe Church. Um and the overlay includes both of those buildings. Um, and this one I would just note um that the the terms of the ordinance which is from 2019 required that a restoration plan be developed for the convent building and that has yet to be complete.

Um, so that was a condition of approval for the re-roofing is that they that is still outstanding. Um, and we do still want to see that. um and it's required per the terms of the ordinance and although of course we want it to be a watertight building um and have an adequate roof. We also do still require that so that so I did have that condition of approval on that certificate um and and that iso should be coming for your review um as soon as it's completed.

That was also one of the terms of the ordinance. It required both that it go to shipo and that it come to HPC. So um and what was the action that they were taking? This was to this certificate was to re- roof the convent, but the unfinished work. What was that? So, it it's it's when the ordinance that created the overlay was passed in 2019.

Um during the approval process by HPC and planning and zoning, a an extra term was added to the end of the ordinance requiring that they develop a restoration plan for the confent building within 3 years and it is now passed that. So they they still need to get that done to be in compliance with the ordinance. Um that's basically all it says.

It didn't go into specifics about, you know, what needed to be included um in the restoration plan, but it does say, you know, it is subject to approval by HPC as well as um it it's the ordinance says it needs to go to Shipo. Um and it does say that future building permits um or other city permits could be withheld until it was put in place um unless they were for life and safety. So though of course we want to encourage preservation and not be too punitive. Um that is there.

So I added that as condition of approval but kind of a unique as far as I know that's the only ordinance that has a stipulation like that for the overlay that in this uh landmarks overlay. So it's a single Yes. property. Yeah. And that was 2019 that plan. Thank you. Um, so I have been in discussions with them letting them know that is still required and you know what I'm happy to help.

Um, some suggestions of things we'd like to see some other projects they have that could you know maybe be included or you know future projects and that. So coming soon hopefully. Um and um so now the let's see um and 107 each east east birch um this was the the last of the certificates and this is another um re- roofing in kind. This one is a little interesting because it's it's the Masonic Lodge downtown. So it's in the downtown overlay.

Um, and we actually can't see the roof from the street because of the type of roof that it is, but um, it is also being uh, replaced in kind um, which is typically meets the criteria for a certificate of no effect. Um, and the last is an update. Back um last fall, some of my colleagues in beautifification came and presented on um two spot logging train potential, you know, restoration projects and um one has been completed.

So, this is just a report back to let you know that as you know, our commission discussed and then um the beautifification com commission discussed as well, uh they did go ahead and replace those rotten logs. Um, and so I included the photos. Um, of course the logs that could be sourced now are not nearly as big as what could have was, you know, sourced before, unfortunately. So they aren't as long. So they created two stacks instead of one long stack. But, um, they are no longer deteriorated.

Um, and they did coat them in linseed oil offsite in the hopes that they last a little longer. um look a little better than the last ones did. So, just to report back that the prop logs, as they they call them, um which I think I just personally find funny, my folks coming from an art mentality. Um so, think of things differently than me. So, just a report on that one. Anything from commission members on any of this? Okay. Anything?

Uh, we're up to item eight, which is miscellaneous items to and from commission members. Anything anyone wants to bring forward? I do have two small items if I can. Um, so first is just piggybacking on the certificates. I just wanted to let everyone know um and Sher Westimer um found out about this earlier today that there is unfortunately um someone who has been looking at city agendas and um trying to scam recent applicants with a wire transfer scam.

So I it happened to one of the applicants on this agenda. They got you know a fake email from a non city email address that was claiming to be from um the commission and was not. Uh and I did reach out and contact the other two certificate applicants in case this was also they heard from anyone else since they were on the same agenda.

But basically it used the publicly available information from the agenda to um try and you know convince them that they if they wired money they would get their approval even though it's already approved. I think all of these projects are already done. So hopefully it looks fishy, but just wanted to throw that out there for anyone listening um that that exists and um but we and we are aware and taking other steps and unfortunately this um I believe has also happened with planning and zoning.

So I our front counter knows who is our main point of contact um and they have added some language to um the fee that we do charge like how to make payment that we will never ask for a wire transfer um and those sorts of things. So, working on it, but just wanted to get the word out. Um, and you've all probably seen, but the tour that we had earlier that we did not have earlier today is rescheduled for the same time next month. So, 2:30 um at the Babbot building downtown next month.

So, we'll try again to do the property tour um and then come down and be here in time for our four o'clock meeting. So, thank you all for adjusting at the last minute. Okay. Anything else from anyone? Emily? Uh, yeah. And I don't expect you guys to have an answer right away, but it was announced this week that NAU is planning on demolishing uh SPS West, which is over 50 years old. Do you guys anticipate that coming to us in any way? No. Um I I do not know anything about that or the project.

Um but because it is um effectively a state action, it would be going to Shipo because they are the review authority for NAU um and anything that they were to do to their historic buildings. Okay. Yeah. It's not part of like the historic, you know, part of campus that's on the register. Anyway, I was just kind of curious where that domain lies and who Yeah, effectively all of NAU and even some off, you know, campus things that they may own.

Um, they they're it just like I guess you would think of it like any other state agency action like if it was Arizona State Land Department or ADOT. Um, Yeah. Yeah. I guess they'll just have to keep up and see if they're going to do any recordation or anything like that. It' be interesting to know. Okay, cool. Thanks, Emily. Can you identify which building that is more clearly? I'm trying to picture. Is that South Campus? Yeah, it's called SPS West.

It is next to SPS Castro, and students get very confused as to what building they're supposed to be in. It was the old business building. It was built in uh 1973. according to the sign outside of it. And it's uh yeah, one of the two I don't even know how to describe where it is. Next to the forestry building and the new business building off the the big quad on um McConnell and I think Pineel is Is it the one if you come down Babbot Drive? It's straight ahead as you're heading south.

I have no idea. Like it's at the very very far end of South Campus. like it's it's that and then it's the the parking lot and then that freeway entrance is right there or freeway exit. Okay, thanks for sharing that. It's always nice to know what's happening. Yeah, I mean we literally just got an email like on Monday and it was like, "Hey guys, so we're vacating the building in uh for the summer and then with plans to Sounds like they're going to demolish it the next summer 2027.

just maintenance costs piled up and it's more expensive to keep it than not. So, um, yeah, I'm sure there's asbestous in it. We'll see. We'll see what happens. Thank you. Anything else from anyone? No. Okay, it is. That clock's still wrong. Well, by my watch, it's 5:35 and I guess we're finished. So uh I will use the gap. Thanks for coming and eating us online today guys.