Paradise Valley Confronts Senior-Living Dilemma: 15+ Speakers Reject CCRC General Plan Amendment Despite Town's Own Aging-Population Data

we're kind of War about that week or so ago for those that that don't know me uh I'm Scott your May over here in the t shirt Mike Collins nice mayor so we're thrilled to have you here I just want to say a couple little things since it's already evidence this is not public heing this is a community gathering for the first of which should be several discussions about Senior Living in our town uh when Mr headed the general plan committee uh almost two years ago right Mike one of the things that came to the visioning process is a discussion what are we going to do about transitional housing how can people that no longer want to live in a big house on one acre stay in the town and not have to move so from that we got an incubation of ideas that are still forming and that's why we're here tonight so uh not much more about me this is just going to be a discussion please fill sign you haven't that way you get on our email list for subsequent meetings uh comment cards to fill them in even whether if you choose not to make a public uh statement at Le you can turn those into Auto or planning director and uh that'll be part of the public director we have tonight so she AA has a short PowerPoint presentation I got to emphasize this is about Continued Care residential Community content so this is not site specific it's uh really about where does this belong in our community what would it be like how would it operate what would who and what benefits would happen so this is a this is a global discussion tonight and as we proceed down this path we will get more and more clarity we appreciate everyone's input I'm sure there probably 80% of the people in this room are supposed to report to someone else what happens tonight so please do that to your neighbors friends uh relatives so uh AA thank you mayor and good evening I'm so happy to see such a large crowd I um know most of you but it's nice to see some new faces and I appreciate everybody coming out as mentioned tonight we are discussing Community Care retirement communities or ccc's that's I'll be referring to the most of the evening and I do have a short PowerPoint don't get nervous at the discussion topics I'll go through them very quickly but I'll give you some background on how the CCRC got into the general plan the purpose of this meeting the overview of the application or applications that are before the town whether there's demand for CCRC and what is the CCRC where they should locate what they look like and I do have um photos and aial of five F in existence of course none in the town and then where do we go from here the general plan currently States the town should conduct a CommunityWide discussion that's why we're here tonight on the type of Senior Lifestyle residential options appropriate for the town of where they are most appropriate in order to accommodate Town residents who wish to remain residents throughout the later stages of life so some background on how that got into our general plan the general plan is the vision for the town it's reviewed every 10 years and revised more totally Rewritten this plan was adopted in March of 2012 and discussions on it started back in January of 2011 there were over 58 public meetings and those included meetings with the visioning committee the concept s went to the general plan advisory committee then to the Planning Commission then to the Town Council and lastly to the voters the general plan that we use to was ratified by the voters on March 13th of 2012 with over 80% approval now some background on how the CCRC discussion began this was initiated during the town visioning process that was the first step in revising the general plan this committee was co-chaired by then vice mayor Mary hamway and current council member Lisa True Blood and was stacked by outside Consultants their main focus was to do community outreach on Concepts and revisions to the general plan they had a community hall meeting again back in January of 2011 and at that time they felt that the resident stated that we should explore alternative housing types and increase flexibility to allow residents to continue to live in Paradise Valley when age or health no longer allows maintenance of a large home the in committee also put out a CommunityWide questionnaire on there Senior Living was noted in the comment section to be explored and the questionnaire specifically asked about nonresidential uses and whether the town should consider conversion to land from residential to non-residential at that time about 65% of the respondent thought that it's something they might consider it was a maybe or a yes the questionnaire also asked where the type of non-residential would be appropriate the majority 82% thought uh Scottdale Road would be appropriate and about 50% split uh Lincoln Drive and Tatum Cactus Corridor the visioning committee then put together more detail and in their detailed report they state that we should change Su uses now for those of you unfamiliar with Su uses that means special use permit it's how the town zones nonresidential properties currently the town code has things like schools churches Resorts medical facilities in our special use per category it does not have ccc's so they want to they suggested changing Su uses to contain higher density allowing for ccrcs their final report that went to the planning um General plan advisory committee stated there was discussion about changing Parcels along Lincoln Tatum and Scottsdale Road to a new zoning category to allow for New Uses such as a Continuum care retirement community CCRC there was a lot of interest in the CCRC but also caution to ensure it respected surrounding neighborhoods in scale and character the committee felt the parcels under consideration should be limited specific area and few in Number the en visioning outcome also stated that we should support appropriately scaled flexible alternative housing options for our agent population and that we should explore amending Town codes to allow flexibility for existing housing and alternative housing types for new development that is consistent in scale and existing uses to adapt to the changing demographics as the community as age or health May no longer allow maintenance of a large home this information like I said all went through the general plan advisory committee then to the Planning Commission later to the Town Council and the language that was adopted into today's General plan reads the town should conduct a CommunityWide discussion on the type of Senior Lifestyle residential options appropriate for the town and where they are most appropriate in order to accommodate Town residents who wish to remain res throughout the labor stage of Supply again that is why we are here tonight so the purpose of this meeting is to get input from you as the mayor mentioned by the sign and sheets there were these yellow comment cards please if you haven't picked one up pick one up pick some up for your friends if your friends couldn't be here tonight and they have access to a computer there'll be a link on our website or you can email me directly my name again is AA cro this is not our first meeting on ccc's we did bring the concept back to the Town Council to further explain what a CCRC was and this was in February and April Town Council requested additional information and we hosted a Town Council Roundtable discussion where members of council and members of Private Industry involved in CCRC were present we then brought our citizen review plan to council by State Statute they need to adopt it and basically it was that we want to have a community meeting and do more Outreach to the public we also had Planning Commission work sessions during the summer we only had work sessions because we know a lot of our population is not in town during the summer so we waited until school started to host the community meeting now we do have applications before us one is what we're discussing tonight that's to include ccc's as a land use category in the general plan so included in our plan for the future as well as amending the land use map of the general plan to included as a land use this is not an application for a specific property although it is no secret to many of you that we also have a separate application for a specific property on Road that's not what we're here to discuss tonight but that is what this blue card is about the applicant red group will host their own CommunityWide meeting on September 5th at 6 PM in the same meeting room to discuss the site specific application but again right now it's not in the general plan the general plan would first need to be amended and then the applicant could go for their Su application we could look at amending the Z code we can look at hearing it Su but tonight again it's just the general concept how you feel about it whether you like it whether you want to limit it Etc and at the end of the presentation hopefully that's when the real meeting will start and we will have a lot of community input so again tonight it's just changes to the general plan document so we've been throwing around CCRC so what is the CCRC it's a Continuing Care retirement community to providing house housing health care and social and community activities for seniors there are various housing options based on healthare needs and it allows residents to remain a part of their community and to transition between different levels of care there are um on-site services including meals maintenance Transportation housekeeping Physicians as well as amenities like movie theaters woming pools salons and fitness centers and then what is Continuum of Care there are three main stages of care there's independent living assisted living memory care and skilled nursing care residents can transition between the different care levels and the transition may be temporary for instance if you had an accident and you need um skilled or assisted living and then once you heal you can transition back to independent living or if you're showing signs of dition or Alzheimer's perhaps you just transfer to the Assisted Living memory carrier and the projects for CCRC are not required to have all these stages they could have one two or three now is there a demand for ccrcs the demographics seem to show that there may be Paradise Valley the last sensus information we have is from 2010 it shows that over 50% of our population is above 50 years in age and over 23% of our current population is over 65 years in age when you look at Nationwide statistics from now to 2060 it appears that our population over 65 years of age will double and our population over 85 years of age will more than triple so it does appear that there will be a need for more senior living in the future so where do ccc's locate they locate near Transportation routes shopping areas medical offices and cultural and recreational facilities the questionnaire from the vision visioning committee did pinpoint specific areas scell Road Lincoln and the Tatum Cactus Corridor that would be ining with the preferred locations and what does a CCRC look like well that depends they range from highend bu highrise buildings to expansive campuses it depends on acreage in their location however the images I'll be showing you tonight are from the Phoenix metropolitan area again none are in the town because we don't allow that use currently and they typically have three to five story buildings the larger properties may offer a detached living as well as um a multiple story building they all have outdoor meni such as swimming pools putting greens and indoor Mani such as the libraries salons and fitness centers now what's unique to residents of Paradise Valley and what may be concerned is the density and height of ccrcs they are denser and taller than most Paradise Valley land juices their FS are often higher for those of you unfamiliar with the F term that's how the town measures death density it's floor area ratio um for instance our 43 Lots the town allows up to 25% F so if you have a 100,000 foot lot you can have a 25,000 ft structure ccrcs sometimes approach an F of one or 100% so if they're on 100,000 foot lot they may have 100,000 sare ft of structure it wouldn't all be one story covering the entire lot but you may have 25,000 in a on each story of a four story building and that's how you would get to your 100% f um now fa uh ccc's would require a special use permit if they are acceptable in the town again special use permits are how we Zone our non-residential properties and ccc's would be considered non-residential and another concern again is the height most ccc's do have a height exceeding 36 ft now I'll show you five examples again from Phoenix Scottdale one and Oro Valley the first is La Siana on Northern Avenue this facility has independent living and assisted living here are some interior shops uh showing their amenities movie theater game room dining room and this aial depicts their density they're on a relatively small site 5.5 Acres they have 19 units in four-story building their f is 97% so they have 34 dwelling units per acre the next assisted living facility is V Del Rio oh I'm sorry this is an independent living facility and they only have Independent Living Next slide shows the swimming pool and dining room and the aerial again shows that it's a smaller site little over 4 Acres stories in height F of 54% with 31 dwelling units in acres now there are also some much larger senior facilities this is Viet Silverstone up on 74 Street this is the largest of the ccrcs I'll be showing you this evening it has 270 Independent Living units 67 are detached Villas and 203 are apartments in the four story building shown they also have assisted living and memory care and skilled nursing so they have the full Continuum of Care here are some interior and exterior shots and the aerial you can see this is a much larger site at 33 Acres the building in the front is four stories and all of these buildings are the independent living Villas they're one story in height this project has F of about 50% which equates to about 10 dwelling units an acre on this 33 Acre Site there's also Marabella which is similar in size this is on princess Boulevard and has 118 independent living homes 39 Independent Living Casitas 36 Assisted Living residences and 24 Memory Care units again the full Continuum of Care this one is under construction as you could see some of these are actual built structures some of these are nice images and this areial again shows it under construction but shows that it's about a 25 Acre Site four story maximum height and about 16 dwelling units an acre the last example I'll be showing you tonight is splendido in Oro Valley this again has the full Continuum of Care with independent living assisted living Memory Care skilled nursing and rehabilitation services and hospice here are some exterior photos of this CCRC and an aerial showing the 27 Acre Site the four story buildings an F of about 46% and about 10 dwelling units an acre so issues specific to Paradise Valley I touched on this previously uh the building Heights and the numbers of floors what I've shown you of course exceeds what is in Paradise Valley we also have to be considerate of the compatibility with residential areas we don't have a commercial core so of course residences will be neighbors of these facilities we'd have to look at appropriate locations for them and of course the ability for the town to receive Revenue perhaps in a way similar to the way we receive revenue from Resorts now important thing to note the general plan does not address these development standards TI and dening the general plan again is just a vision for our future so this application is just to allow this as part of our vision and then the applicant would have to go through a zoning text amendment to brought in the Su category so it can include ccc's there would have to be special use permit guidelines drawn up we have those now for all other Su uses and that's what sets the heights the setbacks the lock coverages the lighting the signage so that would all still need to be developed and then um there would have to be applications for property specific special use purposes so simply because you meet the guidelines doesn't mean you could build a CCRC you would still have to go through the full Su process included public hearings at both the commission level and the Town Council level and as I mentioned earlier we do have application in that is not what we're here to discuss but that is what will be discussed on September 5th what we're here to discuss tonight is the application to add this proposed language to the general plan and it reads Continuing Care retirement community CCRC the CCRC designation applies to Continuing Care retirement communities offering a Continuum of Care through any combination of independent living assisted living memory care and skilled nursing Services the CCRC designation is intended to accommodate those individuals who wish to reside in the town of Paradise Valley throughout the later stages of Life the designation shall integrate residential units Assisted Living Memory Care skilled nursing service various indoor outdoor Community amenities and social activities this application is also to amend the land use map this is part of the general plan and at the bottom here you could see different colorcoded land jues we would have to add another color perhaps pink label A continuing care retirement community and with those are the only two changes with this application that would be the starting point once it's in the general plan to then look at our zoning code to look at our guidelines to look at applications for site specific sus the processes are outlined here on the left side is what we're looking at this evening that's a major general plan text Amendment and Major General plan Amendment to the map there's a pre-application stage that's already been done that's with staff there's then the 60-day inter agency notice that has also been done that's where we send out to all the surrounding towns the county all other government agencies we receive no comment from anybody who SS something out to so we don't know if they agree or disagree with the concept we then have the citizen review and the Planning Commission stage the arrow is in between them because like I said we started with the education of the Planning Commission during the summer but we waited to have the community the citizen review meeting until a little later in the year hoping that we would have more residents present so that's where we are right now on the text Amendment to the general plan and the map Amendment to the general plan The Next Step would be September 17th when the Planning Commission will hold their first public here now they can forward this to council with a recommendation for approval or denial or they can continue this to have more hearings that's their option it then goes to Town Council for their review in a public hearing Town Council by State Statute has to have a hearing on this matter before the end of the calendar year because the state statute says that any general plan Amendment application has to be heard in the year it's submitted the council doesn't have to approve or deny it they can continue the matter they feel more discussion is necessary but they do have to have that hearing before the end of the year this does require a super majority vote at Town Council all General plan amendments do so if we have seven members of council normally the majority would be 10 in general plan amendments you would need ajor vote I'm sorry seven the majority would be four and in a Major General plan Amendment you would need five council members so that concludes my PowerPoint um I did have it is now time for comments I did have one comment emailed me today and it was from Linda Peterson Warren she did ask that I read it aloud so if um you don't mind me starting with that comment before we turn it over for your comment she wrote with the rapidly changing demographics of Aging Baby Boomers and current Paradise Valley statistics of residents 50 and above a general plan Amendment addressing residential Senior Living is both reasonable and logical longtime Paradise Valley residents no longer needing a large home do need an option to remain in their own Hometown this need was articulated by residents in the visioning committee and further discussed during our general plan strategy sessions with appropriate language and strict guidelines to protect the character and culture of our town I support the concept of such an amendment as well as subsequent steps to address the demand for senior housing for our own residents and the needs of a comprehensively aging population thank you Linda Peterson Warren so that's the first comment I've received do I have a second comment yes can you go back in your slides sure the very almost the very front oh okay tell me when to stop there were names of duly elected officials and then there were names of Consultants yes who are the consultants and who do they work for the Consultants were hired by the town that's normal with the general plan Amendment and um in this case though they were only hired for the visioning process of the general plan they were hired for the community alary and it was Jan Ed go and Randy Grant and then our um council members that were on this committee were then vice mayor Mary hamway and council member trua the Consultants helped with the questionnaire and how to get that information out after the visioning process was over and went to the general plan advisory committee we no longer consultant but they're they're paid Consultants yes that is correct and who do they work for they work for the town the H and what is their where do they come from are they real estate people noan used to be the manager of City yes but no they're all professional plers and we hired them from they put together we interviewed quite a few different professional planning organizations and they met the town yes at one point when the general plan came out there was a lot of publicity in theer the number one thing the town people were going for was one house perre they really wanted to see that remain on anything that wasn't ANP already such as down shadows and in your presentation your PowerPoint you said that there was a lot of interest in the CC and RC how many is a lot of interest compared to many one well to keep the town I've been here 15 years and of course the One Acres zoning is always the most popular always sacred in this town and we do always want to keep that our majority but during the visioning process we did learn that there are quite a few new residents uh quite a few residents that want additional Services again we try to get the survey out to as many residents as we could of those sampled we had 31% that say yes that we do want to consider conversions from residential to nonr residential uses so you had 31 that were on board with non-residential uses you had 34 that were Mayes and you had 35 that were no so of the three groups the majority of the three was no but when you combine them you do have 65% that would consider it or thought we should consider it neily less one house per acre though no it do it resal resal also your gp32 that you were talking about it said you want to put that into the general plan that they should allow but it's for people who want to live in the town of Paradise Valley in care it doesn't say for the residents of the town of Paradise Valley well it would be very difficult and possibly illegal for us to limit who could live in a c I have no problem with people living wherever but making an exception to put this building there because the town people want it for their and it fills up with people from Scottdale the first week it doesn't make sense to give away an Su to that doesn't mean you're going to have so that doesn't yeah and and that was of course discussed we would of course like it to be for our residents but how you would regulate that is beyond what I think point is why give the why give the Su if it's not solve what you said they want the residents in the town make the decisions on or they should have but then again we're assuming that we would have no residents there practically you probably would have a mix of residents and nonresidents that this is a small town and the percentage of people that would be there's big need for it people have to drive all the way up to wh they're going so there's no guarantee that it's going there is guar you're going to give up some of the what everybody wants this town which the general plan has said they want one house per AC and you're going to give and need for uh a senior I understand the revenue potential I understand that but you mentioned something in a couple of things caution to respect surrounding neighbors yes uh very important for compatibility with residential areas and we have spent money a lot of it to come and live in Paradise Valley so that we don't have a twostory or three story looking at our house at night you know know and so it's important to maintain that so I think when you're looking at areas to code or change your sup whatever um I think it's very critical that you look that it's not going to impact somebody who has these fabulous you know one acre lots and homes and I happen to notice as I'm driving here I turned on Lincoln right off of Sky Road there's this huge apartment complex going in seems to me that might be an appropriate place to put something but not behind somebody else's you know home so I think it's I understand you're talking in generalities tonight but you know this is not this next meeting is not and so it it's hard to vote Yes on a general and then specifically it ends up behind your home your home your home my home whatever it's a completely different answer I believe and I I do appreciate your comment of course on the questionnaire we it was we were trying to keep the questionnaire brief cover a lot of subjects it was mainly the written comments that we became aware people were looking for Senior Living Alternatives see um five different ones I showed you tonight we know that those aren't in those in our town I showed them to you tonight to get feedback do you think that's appropriate in the town do you're think if you're approving this uh you know to convert or to make you know an area available for this type of use are you specifically choosing when you talked about pink on a map are you going to look at specific land uses to change those to possibility of being that's not what we're doing we would handle it like we handle all sus on the land use map you could see it's predominantly yellow which is residential but that doesn't mean that five Lots couldn't be joined together they couldn't come with 28 and then they could come to the town and apply for an Su for let's say a resort for a medical closet that's allowed today it doesn't mean that we would ever approve it they would then have to amend the general plan to get that land juice on the map and then go through the S process that would be the same scenario with ccc's we're not labeling on the map where we want them we're just putting it in as a concept the town would explore so if anybody had a site specific one they first have to amend the general planned land use map to put it on the map they'd have to do a zoning text amendment to allow it in our zoning ERS it's not allowed there staff would have to come up with guidelines again these are just guidelines they could come in and ask for a 10 story building believe me when it comes to commission and councel that will be looked at we'll get the resident feedback at that time or before and then that's how we decide whether it's appropriate or not we don't decide we don't have Zoning for so it's not like we're going to say We'll allow it up to 36 ft tall at a 30% F and the people just come and get a building from it that's not how this town works we come up with Concepts ideas then people come in with specific plans and we address it on a site by site basis that's how we do all of our nonresidential uses um Li I have three things one we have 31% 31 10 people that is correct one were the numb the total number I don't know I wasn't on the visioning committee and that was over two years ago we tried to get that information and um we had a hard time finding and this is basically the information we have um my guess would be we only had about a hundred or so respondents to the survey we tried we sent it out about three different times we brought it to the schools we you know tried to distribute it at meeting places in the town but we didn't have enormous feedback we had more feedback at the meetings at the visioning committing uh committee meetings those were well attended as well as the general plan committee meetings and then of course the commission well another thing you mentioned that we're not uhing any particular sites in town however I have a letter that U was sent to the council members by the April 11 2003 potential CCRC CCRC locations staff has identifi three potential CCRC locations within the town of Paradise Valley the parcels include a triangular shape 5 25 acre parcel on east side of town Frontage on Scottdale Road an 8 acre parcel at the southeast corner of J Double Tree roads and 17.1 Acres comprised of multiple Parcels located south of L Drive refer to as the Le property these three partes all have access on major AR Street and are situated near the town borders with either Phenix Scot excuse continues on then I'd just like to quote something from Helen Harold one of our senior residents who uh contributed to town for many many years still contributes from her home um without thinking very hard I can count nine widows in my neighborhood which is T Christie uh80 minus who seem to be getting along F the thought of alternate [Applause] [Music] [Applause] housing I'm just a bit confused I'm sorry respond I understood from I'm sorry I can't I'm sorry I understood from your opening slide that your objective was to provide continuing care to residents of what we were trying to achieve our objective is to get feedback on whether we should include this in the general plan okay then my question is is okay but I then going to say how are you going to achieve that objective if you're saying it might not be legal to um to ref to Paradise before we can give you feedback we need to understand how you will achieve that objective it's just to allow the opportunity for instance our medical centers we allow medical centers here because that is a need that our residents use but do I know how many of the patients at Mountain View Medical are Town residents versus outside the town no but the opportunity does exist there for our residents to use those facilities that would be the same thing with with CCRC same thing with our resorts to make the opportunity available but we cannot regulate who uses well that's the point you may not be making available because it fill up with res from elsewhere is that right of course that's a possibility but at least the opportunity would exist same thing with the medical center I mean if they're fully booked with scotsville residents it's not like we tell them they can't operate in the town but we assume that isn't the case and that there is a mix of residents and other people that use the facilities in the town just like we use the facilities in Scottdale and Phoenix and our surrounding thank you for presentation and also thank you for the comments that come to the floor so far um we've just recently moved into Paradise land and we live here for the same reasons as everybody else and we've lived in many other places um and I want to share a personal experience with you and that was one of the places we live Britain the area being very similar to here high value properties on March Lots with restricted uh zoning there were no uh senior living facilities of any kind and then one of the residents had the grand idea that he'd make some money and he would have one on his uh FL so he had to developer draw a plan but of course he needed finding permission so this went on for years back and forth and with a lot of Mone on legal fees and it even went as far as a public inquiry which is a whole National thing and it was turned down and regardless of whether it's one story or many stories the reason it was turned down with disturbance you cannot imagine the disturbance that these kind of facilities cause because the people like us are not going out to do the Daily Business their daily businesses coming to them so you've got lawyers accountants friends and and the fire ambulances the ambulances are the worst of all and this goes on 247 then you've got all the staff coming in the disturbance is enormous to the entire area and like I say after many years and a lot of legal Fe on many sides it was turned down for that reason so I would like to see the character of Paradise Valley pres particularly because as has been pointed out already this cannot be guaranteed this facility facility can't be guaranteed for as residents so I can't understand why consider well I I [Applause] appreciate spoke about things that I felt with concern such as density and height but I did not mention disturbance and I'm glad that brought that up to be considered yeah yeah there's one other thing when you were doing the Mountain Shadows higher density which was a lot of that was listen people in the town want to downsize and so that ability just like theit Carlton those two places were going to be places where people in the town could age gracefully and downs if they wanted you can have 24-hour health I mean so there is the ability for people in the town to look forward to downsizing at shadows and that has been another and those are things that we can't control because that's already been approved and was this is something that's not this is like a giving to somebody you don't have to give and um you are correct M Shadows I believe right now they do have a plat for 40 lots that are less than an acre they're about 10,000 square foot Lots similar to Mountain Shadows east and west and Colonial maramon which is an alternative in the town to our 43 housing it is still it's very limited in size and number of L Eva do you know where there currently are C communities close to the Paradise Valley area where are where are they um those would be the five that you did yes those are surrounding areas yes they're mainly Scot sale and Phoenix there was one in Oro Valley cuz I'm sure there are many others we did look at the upscale ones as we're assuming that would be the product that we would want in the town so within a 15minute drive we have about four any specific location but why was the Northwest area of the Town singled out that we could have as many as a half a dozen it didn't say we would it said we may have the Poss of having a half dozen in the Northwest section for the residents who aren't uh accustomed to the Northwest section of Tatum Tatum is a busy Bruce Street but all the way from Shay into town there is only on story homes including the Phoenix side Phoenix would never do this to the residents of single family homes there are two acre homes and one acre homes along Tatum this residential area extends all the way to Cheney escapes on the East it was actually annexed in 1961 soon after the town was incorporated there is no commercial in this whole area of single family homes and it has the nicest Mountain views driving into town of any other interest including Lincoln Tatum from the south we have the M Mountain preserv we have Amos Mountain we have money mountain and as soon as a short distance it's just continual views for all the residents for the people entering the town who may be going to the airport there's little traffic on Tatum all evening all night after 10:00 it's extremely quiet but the these centers would create 24hour chaos with air conditioning on the roofs of three stories plus next to this one story Little home this could happen in different sections of town not just this one and yes there is the process but why are we going to open the door to this are you aware that there are assisted living facilities in town now once that the federal government um makes it that the town can do nothing about they can have up to five elderly residents um no one knows where they're at there's over several dozen uh they don't disturb the area they don't disturb the residents so there is options for people who want to live in one of these homes Mont luo was um introduced as an option for senior housing there if you want it to downsize uh Mountain Shadows now is going to have numerous homes on small acreage and basically um Cottonwood leing property will now have approximately 40 houses on 10 acres they might be condos not sure exactly um unit dwellings or what but they won't be extremely high the people who um live in this town can't afford lawn care and maintenance on their homes if they don't want to go into a senior facility there are a so many other options that it isn't necessary and I was actually in a position and I'm well in the80s if I was in a position that I had to choose one I would choose the one in Scottdale near Thompson Peak Parkway because it has Thompson Peak Scottdale Healthcare it's a fantastic hospital if I've been there for a surgery and if you want to be near a hospital and a great that's where you want to [Applause] you are proof that this is the public hearing we would have no thank you those are good comments I just want to throw out a couple things let's try and talk about some deliverable specifics for Miss cro as she writes her report after what happens with the first meeting so it's not about a 5 acre parcel of the on Scotto Road it's not about an empty site at the corner of Double Tree and T it's not even about the land behind the dog kenel it's really not about any of this it's it's if we think that this is a a use that the town needs what would it look like if we don't like four stories let's let her know we don't like that idea if we want it to look like a house let's let's give this input let's try and make this uh a meeting that when you come away uh there's there's some feedback and I'm sure that Miss go will ask kind of for a show of hands at the end about two or three different options of what we talk about that's what this is It's fact finding and it's it's really great to hear all this feedback because as an elected official you can't make a decision and vacuum without knowing what the residents of your community uh have to say so I appreciate everyone's feedback I think there's a gentleman over here want to say something keep moving it around thank you the gentleman in the back and then the man in the white do shirt I appreciate the opportunity many people any residents that I've listened to have spoken forcefully and well about this proposition my wife and I have lived here for about 10 years Paradise Valley is a unique Community there's nothing I ask all of you explore your travels in your mind quickly where else have you ever been that's quite like this Austin Geneva is not like this this is a very unique and special place the important principle that I think has not been mentioned yet and this is the reason that I stood up to speak is the issue of precedent in the legal profession when a lawyer when a judge makes a decision he will site precedent and his decision as it stands up to any challenge is based on how it has used properly that legal president I tell you now if you Empower you enable this Planning Commission to go ahead and destroy this town's character in the smallest way it will only be used as leverage to do more and more purposeful things to enrich developers and to impoverish the residents of this community please I'm sorry as you raise your hand I think a lot of has been has been touched upon but I'd be interested if and I sort of take exception to the mayor's with all due respect his comments about we're here to help draw this up I I don't hear anybody in here that's here to draw it up I hear people that are here to draw it down i' I'd be very I'd be very interested to hear the other side of the equation I mean I'm here open mindedly trying to decide if there's another side or the folks that filled out the survey and said I definitely want to in the confines of Paradise Valley and have this accessible to me as I you're older those folks are here I'm happy to hear what they have to say I'd like to hear a Counterpoint if there's such people present tonight okay is there anybody that uh wishes in the um strip start in the back please I'm a resident that has been here for 15 years and I think what has been presented to us by the visioning committee is a concept of Healthcare step down living and most of us have a concept of not of step down living the projects that have been presented here this evening are based on a medical health care concept of step down living make it very simple you you you do not have you may have the desire to live here in Paradise P but you don't have the health care means or caregivers to help you so you go into a facility like this and if it is a step down living Health Care concept then that means you enter out at the end through hospice and you go to heaven and I think when you discuss about mechanics of changing the general PL and the availability of idential identify pieces of property you need to consider the health care concept and uh once again if you do not have a facility that is a stepdown facility that requires more height it requires more density uh then you could end up with what has been discussed this evening as as uh residential car uh character one type of service for our healthc care so I think it's very important that as this proceeds through its process that begin to consider more specifically the the concept of Health Care that would be provided one of these faili thank you yes yeah um my name is Andy Gordon and um very good presentation thank you uh we are part of adjacent to a property that went through an Su process I appreciate the comment of the woman down here is that somehow I think it's always not in my backyard but in our situation we're the only one that showed up because it was in our backyard so what I'm saying the general comment is we don't want it well it depends where it is so the process permits people to comment on it if you're directly affected but my point is is do you have any weight if you're directly affected and you don't have much weight so it's really the process in my opinion which is a good process but the kind like is who has standing in the discussions the other piece is is that my parents are here they're 94 I have disabled brother they live in the house that I lived in when I went to Kea over 50 years ago so some standing in the community if you will and this is a real Bonafide issue and I think to your point is Paradise Valley is special but the point is how can we make it more special that's what I think because it's all about not by putting in a higher I didn't say that at all did I I was I was interested in your point of view is what are the other points of view because there could be other Solutions is we don't know really where where are the possibilities because if we are talking about Medical Care is maybe how Medical Care could maybe be more portable to the people who do live here because we're concerned about people who do live here I mean there's other solutions to the problem that we presented with and it may not be the one of the density of the tall building but we do have a real problem it's the demographics you just presented and I see that more not as a problem we see that as an opportunity to make this a very very very special community and we'd be ignorant to think that we're not going to get old enough and not get sick and disabled I think that those are very valid comments and interesting have portable and that's what you IDE like to see yes I don't know what the answer is but I'm saying it's to explore the possibilities there's a lot of people who are dealing with this in a lot of different ways and we can learn from them not necessarily it's not necessarily the structure that I'm saying it's not the F it's not all those type of things but how do we really C address the challenge that we're faced with and actually that sound like a really good way of solving the problem if you can find portable care but that kind of care doesn't require build anywhere so or maybe a variety of combinations maybe we really need housing for caregivers so they're available I mean there's all sorts of different I'm saying I don't know the answer but to dismiss it because it's a building it's not I'm focusing on the challenge not the building I mean I share with the gentleman's point of view is that it really is it a real estate opportunity or a business proposition no we're really talking about it's not what we're doing to Residents it's so we're going to do for residents sorry respect my problem is the objective fails of the first test I understand your point you the problem so why would you do it to Paradise Valley door that Phoenix and Scots there were massive and they can accommodate they don't have for restrictions that father because you know your aging parents and so on this goes ahead you can't guarantee them this and that's my problem it's objectives you kind of achieve yeah well I really appreciate your outside of the box thaning and as a planner we are constructed with the statistics we are getting older we are living longer we do need to look at Solutions the reason this one is before you tonight is this is the one we have an application for but we certainly are open to exploring all different options because we're going to have to so I I certainly appreciate your comments there was a gentleman on this side of the room that had been patiently waiting if you would like to speak thank you my name is David Ruben and um you indicated initially that we had 65% that were either um yes or maybe but in actually already have 69% that are no or maybe or that are not yes that is correct which is you know so so we we really shouldn't be talking about those you know those kind of 100 person surveys the other thing is with regard to the gentleman's comment uh over on the end certainly it's a wonderful wonderful idea to do what we can for for for our elders and ourselves I'm 63 so I'm right around the corner but I have a mother who's 88 years old who lives on 64 in Greenway and a and and a uh Assisted Living Center I have a mother-in-law who 88 years old who lives with us the that topic this you know Grand topic that you're discussing here is is much bigger for for even this entire town to resolve this is a this is a national problem and and and we're not going to solve it you know like in Paradise Valley here in this meeting or even if the entire town got together this is a professional situation that that certainly we can all do what we can individually and as a group you know to make plans for our own you know uh golden years and and the people that are graduating you know into that now but there's certain things that you that you can't deny it's just plain and simple and I would ask anyone to let me know that I'm wrong on any of this because you know I'm not usually right but we all moved here to have the lifestyle that we have here and I don't mean the lifestyle of the Rich and Famous necessarily but the lifestyle of of quiet the lifestyle of not having a Neighbor Next Door or or behind you the lifestyle of being able to walk down your street and imagine that you're almost an agricultural Community I've got a couple of horses on my land I um what what an opportunity for anyone whether it's um in sports or or with regard to the animals you keep or just walking outside and riding your bike in an area that you you don't even imagine that there's Phoenix or Scottdale or Glendale anywhere that's why we all came here we all worked hard to get here we all worked very hard to to maintain the quality of life that's here and you can't do that someone is going to suffer if you allow anything like this to happen it doesn't matter whether it's me cuz I Live down horseshoe I can't even imagine my house your house or your house if it affects one of us who moved here to enjoy what we have here then that's not fair so it's it's really nice that we have a nice crowd here today but if you went and send another survey out you're going to find this the majority vast majority of people who live in per Valley are going to say that they don't want to live on a street where there's uh ambulances coming back and forth you know 24 hours a day delivery trucks for food laundry service attorneys I'm one so doctors accountants as as you've indicated um you're talking about big business here no one's mentioned that that's what this is this is big business this retirement or healthc care Assisted Living believe me I could turn my place into I have two Acres if I got 10 residents I already have two my mother and my my mother-in-law easily charge them 9 Grand a month including the amenities I'm not I only need the one story because I got plenty of room on the 6,500 squ ft and and the gas house if I charge them 9,000 that's uh over a period of a year that's $1,400 at over 50% overhead for that that's going to leave me a half a million dollar profit I won't have to quit my day job this is big business you're talking about here this is and this is doesn't belong here and and if you if you really take the Pulse of most of the people who live in Paradise Valley they're kind people they people that give to to Charities the people that support the poor but they also live here because this is their place this is their this is their Forest this is where they want to be and you have a real slippery slope if you allow even one such entity to open up here you might as well open up a mini shopping center because that's going to have a lot less traffic yes it won't have as many visitors it won't won't have as many deliveries it won't have as as much noise as as as as you will have when you have this kind of major facility and I guess I get to the bottom line a little too quickly sometimes I don't want me to be dogmatic about that but if you really listen to the vast majority of people in Paradise Valley I think they're going to Echo everything that I just said thank you for your comments and I did not mean to mislead with these numbers that was really just to show the history of it and part of that was to show that the concept came up during the visioning process of the general plan the reason I put who was involved in the visioning process is to show we did hire private Consultants it was not staff L we did with this General plan want to make it a vision for the future of the Town by the residents I too wish we had a larger survey res result we certainly tried we got what we got and that's what we're working off of I'm very pleased that we get this kind of turnout tonight and um like I said we did get some of that turn out during the general plan but we are working with the information that we received during the general plan I may be the messenger tonight I don't work for the applicant I do work for the town I'm happy to hear any View and I'm sorry i p down them in the back and then we'll go to you sir number one I did enjoy your presentation I appreciate that the mayor came down to speak to everybody I noticed when we came in I'm Howard donsky by the way my wife and I are residents here for long time at least a year and as it's been mentioned far more far better than I could uh state it we're we're all here for the same reasons we we love this area what it represent we all did work hard together somebody commented when I boy we don't get turnouts like this ever why did you get such a good turnout I'm really looking for for show hands at the end of the meeting how many people are in favor and how many are against and I Echo Mr Ruben's statement numbers you can play with numbers I mean you very publicly sayate two two3 of people were either okay or in favor just as easily 23 were I don't know or against and if it had been worded in an honest way I think the numbers obviously so what you really the only point I can add because I I think people have spoken to this issue very very well very help the one issue I have that hasn't been mentioned is you're asking us to say yeah the concept's good we want to do it but as this gentleman said your premise is flot this is not a Paradise Valley retirement committee this is a retirement community or whoever is going to apply to commit and you correctly stated we cannot legally prevent other people what's our percentage of the community it's pretty low so it's very unlikely that we're I'm only 39 of course but we're all approaching that time so I am sympathetic to the concept but what worries me is the proverbial Cel no is getting into the tent and and we let that Camel nose in no disrespect to the mayor the assistant mayor but who proved this development on Lincoln and Scott I me that's an enormous development Paradise Scottdale okay well shame on them but to me what you're saying is trust me well I I just don't quite have that trust in government no disrespects but I don't and I think once we give them the right to make these decisions for us we're screwed like it or not so I think the only time you can stop this is at a meeting like this and speak your mind speak it forcefully talking about taking people and putting them in a place like that hey you don't you don't try and make the mountain go to Muhammad you have Mohammad go to the mountain we've got beautiful hospitals in and around this community you build these types of facilities around hospitals around centers where some of these people who want to walk and go to a c to a coffee shop to a movie Etc perhaps closer to a mega mall where there's no disruption see I mean this one mes correct we don't want this in our backyard this is not what we work for and you're going to really devalue the properties this is such a unique community so many of us been so many parts of the world and this is so unique and to blow it like that I do appreciate your passion and your honesty on this and your coming out this evening although thank you for the presentation thank you the mayor and I are not here tonight to get you to say yes we agree with this concept what we're doing is we have an application for this we're trying to get public comments on which is what we are getting tonight we are not the applicant we are not trying to sell this concept it did come up the general plan did say have a community meeting on this that's what we're doing tonight and again I didn't me to mislead if I wanted to mislead or sell this product I could have easily put in one and two story senior living facilities because there are out there but quite honestly we wanted to give you honest information we showed you the upper scale ones the ones with the higher densities with the higher Heights because we do believe that that is what the town would see it would have been easy to show you ones that were more similar in scale to our current neighborhood but that's not what the market is selling today and it's not what we anticipate this evening we do anticipate receiving applications for the information I showed you tonight and that's what we want so again we're not trying to sell this application I'm not trying to mislead you with information again we've noted that that could be read either way and I appreciate that but we're really just here for comments and we are getting some good on he thank you I did did want to emphasize that we are here for what I said Community discussion Community uh idea Gathering so you think by any comments I may have made or as Pro or on on this it's not our job is to get the community together to talk about something so uh what can look good in in a vacuum doesn't always uh U form up the way you think uh are this is called a general plan Amendment that's the this is the beginning discussion before the council would have a general plan Amendment discussion our general plan currently does not uh have a designation for CCRC so to even have a discussion of that you have to have an amendment to the general plan it only happen once a year this happens to be in the cycle it pretty much sounds to me like there's not a lot enough traction to go too much further with that but we don't know yet because this is going to be the first this first and last meeting we'll have additional meetings and by the way sir when I said up I kind of really meant forward not up like I I myself so uh I'm I'm glad everyone came here I think maybe Vice may call might like to to uh weigh in uh I I'm I'm glad and delighted to hear this because it helps clear my mind a little bit of what I think the residents of of our community think and it's it's an ongoing thing we've got the brain of America happening I got a word irrigate so I can hear what everyone in this room says it's it's important and I and I want to thank you again everyone for coming Ava is just she's a paid staffer in charge of Community Development so she has to bring this out she has to show a picture of what something could look like and if those pictures Galvanize your idea that's a good thing because you know we talk about a senior living environment doesn't take long before you use the nword nurses nursing home they all have these ideas of what those are and I'm my ideas are very negative about what that so thank you for your time here I want to ask Vice may he has any comments like to make process questions how many of the council who will be voting on this are here tonight are they all two just the two but but we're we're we're months away from voting on any okay well but then I'm a little confused on the process what happens on the special use with bread development on the 17 how can you vote on on that in advance there's no voting on The Ron what happens on the 17th what's the decision I'm I'm getting to that here now when you say on the 17 do you [Applause] mean okay sorry what going what's going on on the fifth is just red groups Community out they have the free application with staff they do have an application to develop a specific site they cannot do that now they can't do develop a site unless this becomes part of the general plan unless the zoning code is changed unless we come up with guidelines they just want to talk to Residents explain what their vision is and get feedback from residents similar to what we're doing tonight with the concept they want to do on a specific project that they'd like to pursue in the town and they have bought the property um you would have to speak with them I I don't know I I'm sorry is anybody from Red here this evening you may want to wish to speak with after this meeting this is again not on their them an opportunity to speak but again we don't want to Cloud this issue yeah thank you good evening everyone my name is Michael Collins and I'm your vice mayor ask me to say a few things I'll I'll I I promise I'll get to you um or I'll I'll turn it over to event but a few things I wanted to say because uh Dorothy Smith uh the wonderful Dorothy Smith called me out when he first came into this meeting I think you point did you point at me you may a point at me you're responsible for this right you said that you said I was responsible for this so that's what I told okay so now let me clarify let me lay this out okay um I was uh fortunate enough to be asked to chair the general plan advisory committee when we were updating our general plan