Paradisevalley · 2024-06-14 · case details pending

about you on special occasion e e for we're ready good afternoon everyone the meeting's called to order with the clerk please call the role mayor bian Winer here vice mayor Stanton here council member anden here council member leel here council member Moore council member Pace council member here Thomason here we have a core thank you very much as a reminder this meeting is being streamed live on the internet and will be archived on the town's website for future viewing the first item on the agenda is an executive session however this item will be deferred until later in the meeting so we move to study sessions uh items on the study session agenda genda are scheduled for discussion among the council staff and their designes votes will not be taken on any of these items at this time but may be scheduled for final action later in the meeting or at a future meeting excuse me members of the public are asked to hold their comments until call to the public which is uh scheduled to begin shortly after 6: pm today public comments will also be invited when an agenda topic is placed on an agenda for Action the first item we have is 2 4-1 189 discussion on process regarding Redevelopment of Ascension Lutheran Church site to four single family r43 or one home per acre minimum Lots scheduled for 45 minutes with uh Paul Michelle thank you good afternoon mayor uh members of council s just go so as uh the mayor mentioned uh so this is a study session to go over the process uh for that process to redevelop this uh Church site uh to four Lots uh you should be familiar with where the site is located it's um as shown here it's bounded by hummingbird Mockingbird and metalark uh the request has four applications there's a minor General plan Amendment uh which would take it from what it's presently which is Public quas public for the church use to low density residential uh a re zoning which would take it from the special use permit religious facility zoning to r43 single family and then there's a preliminary plat and a final plat application uh this is just an illustration of the plat application they are proposing for Lots uh some background the site was annexed back in 1961 it originally had 10 acres uh the church itself was built in 1963 uh with arctic with the Frank Lord Wright Foundation um it was designated in our general plan public quasi public in 1964 and zoned by special use permit in 1977 uh the last Amendment on the church site was in 2021 one if you call for a very similar thing where they they took out one acre and made it a residential lot and then the church was sold in 2023 so the church no longer owns it's a different owner to develop it so looking at the applicant narrative um the um applicant is leasing obviously back to the church the use until July of this year um any of the spire and other items in the property um would be able to be removed and things of that nature and I know that there's a work study session right after this regarding save this virus i w go into too much detail there uh so looking back at the process for the four applications that I described they're both the Planning Commission and Town Council review and action type of process the minor General plan um is a legislative action it could be heard at any time and may be enacted by the action of a simple majority and this is different from a major Amendment and how we get that is just from our general plan we just we determined that this type of action is a minor and not a major uh so the resoning um is also a legislative act action again can be heard at any time there are some minimum noticing requirements by state law we have some noticing requirements by Town policy which is detailed in your report and this again is a simple majority unless it's referred back from a protest petition and then it becomes a three quter vote if that was there and then the the reason for rezoning and the minor General plan Amendment since they are resoning by State law and by our town code you have to have consistency between your general plan and your zoning and your zoning District when you're resoning and then the prelimary and Fin plat are both administrative actions although they still go in front of the commission Andor Council so looking at the Planning Commission for timing requirements there's not a lot of time and requirements throughout any of these processes they're really related to the plats so with the Planning Commission uh the prary plat needs to be um there needs to be 28 days between when they discuss it to when they act on it to give enough time for them to think about that uh there's uh 40 days from the work session to actually take action on it and all the other applications for the Planning Commission it just needs to be without any sort of unreasonable delay and then for Town Council again the only sort of timing provision relates to the preliminary plat once the uh Planning Commission takes their action there are some timing Provisions so noticing this is in your packet again just to really quickly go over it uh there is a what we call a citizen review session or neighborhood meeting that the applicant has to has to do and that is um done through uh the town code on our zoning all these applications are being being described and acted on on the same time and at the same meeting although there'll be some separate actions um so again there's will be a neighborhood meeting that's going to be happening probably the end of August the newspaper notification that is required um by state law for the zoning and against all these applications will be noticed at the same time and so we'll they'll all be getting newspaper notification and that's the same with our property posting there's no State requirement for any sort of mailing notification that's Town policy on what we do and it's 1500t is our is our default range so this was in your uh packet it's really just describing sort of when the application submitted they started their pre-application in February of this year um they'll be going through the Planning Commission the expectation is Planning Commission will take all their action in September and then it will move back on to council um so probably clearly be able to finish this by December if not November uh then going back through each of the applications so again the general plan amendment is going from uh public quasi public to low density residential uh really not much to say there it's by resolution you can't have stipulations on it so it's a it's a pretty General process in that standpoint the resoning as I mentioned before going from low density residential uh uh r43 or from SCP excuse me to r43 and as you can see um when you look at the general plan and the zoning map uh the church itself is is something different everything else around it is is already r43 low density residential so looking at the preliminary plant it follows chapter six of our subdivisions and so we're not getting into the details of how it meets it or not meets it in your meeting today it's about process uh this is set for Planning Commission further study session uh for Tuesday and there'll probably be another study session in the summer and then again it will go to the Planning Commission for Action um in September uh but very generally looking at it again they're proposing four uh residential lots they're over the minimum one acre they range from a little over 1 acre to 1 and A2 acres in size they meet all the required setbacks they they're all on a public Street um they um are regularly shaped lot so they're meeting all our normal sort of test and traffic requirements um I will point out that on the two Corner Lots so that's lot two and four uh they are showing vehicular non-ais easement so there will be no Drive ways onto Mockingbird Lane since it's a minor arterial so those lots will access the local Street that's adjoining them and essentially than that they're it's generally meeting it's a pretty standard case and they're generally meeting all the plat requirements uh then we final plat so they submitted these together so obviously prary plat will has happen first prary plant stays at the Planning Commission level they take action unless um they Chang the final plat to look something different then it would have to go back but in this case I highly doubt that would happen so then you'd be looking at the final plat so You' be looking at the the minor General plan the resoning and the final plat commission is looking at the minor General plan Amendment uh the resoning and the preliminary plat uh so looking at subdivision wall and they're not proposing any subdivision wall or Landscaping as part of the um plat process those would all be handled like any other residential lot just meet our wall code provisions and our landscape code provisions and with that as I mentioned um this next goes on Tuesday to the Planning Commission and happy to address any questions thank you very much any questions from Council council member Lael thank you for that presentation and um thank you for the applicant for being here and and giving us some guidance on this um couple of comments I would have um uh thank you for getting getting ahead of this with us and uh understanding that there will be no access from Mockingbird on the driveways I I appreciate that the only thing I would have to say is just as I know it will happen um I saw in the in the staff comments when the property was sold some residents inquired about what would be developed on the site what would happen to the church and you know just a really robust um noticing of the neighbors and the citizens group is is really what I'm I would love to see is of course you'll do minimal but as as much neighborhood interaction as you can have and getting everybody on board with the process would be appreciated by by myself and I think much of uh Council so I do appreciate that and with that I gu thanks thank you else council member Pace did you have anything no mayor I did not thank you it was a good report good summary we've known this has been coming a lot of good work on it um it's unfortunate that you know we're having these transitions on House of worships but um you know I think you know this is a good steps and and don't have any other comments so thanks mayor thank you um I didn't have any questions and that leads to my comment not a question which is uh I want to compliment the Community Development Department for the work on this I think the presentation is exceptionally detailed in a way that's helpful to us particularly because this is not a type of um uh requests that that we commonly see to transition from a church to one uh lot per acre I'm I I think I can say for myself I'm very happy that that all the Lots will be conforming lots to our zoning standards of in that zoning District of one home per acre and so there's really nothing out of the ordinary needed but because of this transition from a religious use to one home per acre um being something that that's not uh often in front of us I think having all of that detail the charts the explanation of the noticing um neighborhood involvement what type of General plan all the thought that went into it is um is really helpful not only to us but I think is helpful to the public too to see that so I want to compliment uh you all on a job well done I think the the lack of questions isn't from lack of curiosity it's because you've answered all the questions that we might have in the in the staff report which is um is really exemplary work so thank you for to everyone who worked on that uh and the guidance from uh from the direct the Chad director and uh the town manager to get this done in such a format that it's easy for us to understand and also have a good reference point to council member lebel's Point um if people do have questions there's a release of syct piece of information now that they can take a look at and it I think cuts down on work for everybody going forward if anyone does have a question there's a great reference material that you've put together to explain what the process is so uh just compliments all the way around nothing no no questions because again you answered all the questions so great work on that and council member MO is on his way I understand should be here soon um next up we have uh item 24- 219 discussion of Ascension Lutheran Church SP preservation scheduled for uh 45 minutes and our staff contact is our town manager Andrew Ching I want to welcome some distinguished community members who are here joining us as well and uh we'll be happy to hear from them as well given their participation in this uh as needed so Mr CH thank you Mr Mayor members of council um I'm uh pleased to be able to introduce uh Scott jarson uh who's here who uh helped to prepare this uh presentation for you to review this afternoon also here is kathern Kaufman with the historical advisory uh committee with the town and of course council member leel who is the council leaon to that group um I'll just summarize briefly from my perspective shortly after starting in this capacity the next month actually July 2023 the word came out that the church site had been sold um and that it looked like the church would probably not survive whatever the Redevelopment was as a result there were a number of people within this community um who wanted to determine if there was a possibility to preserve something out of that site that would be um um you know feasible and they've worked quite a bit and met quite a bit to have those kinds of conversations and what you're going to see here today is a culmination to this point um with a very specific ask of this group and that ask is is furthered uh on the council's regular agenda later uh this afternoon evening which will be a uh an item for acceptance of the Spire uh and we can certainly talk about that a little bit more but that resolution is something for your consideration um today's study session uh which is about to be presented is more focused on the history uh understanding the significance of why of the why of asking for uh uh the Town's permission uh to accept and to store the Spire so without further Ado I will turn it over uh to those who are presenting right here is great Andrew I'm sorry a little historic piece to to give first is that okay of course thanks yeah yes come on up well thank you may mayor and uh council members and everybody who's here today for uh this brief little introduction um it's very timely that we're sort of considering this this is a a proposal for acceptance of a gift that uh could be made to the town and there's a a a brief presentation here I'll try to sum up quickly just uh to honor your time we talked a little bit about this site uh and what is coming for it but the history of this building is quite unique it was designed originally 1961 at the at the very cusp of the formation of the Town completed in the 63 um this building primarily was designed by Frank L Wright's longterm associate and son-in-law Wes Peters uh Wes was uh at the time head of talas and Associated Architects after Wright's death was one of their first commissions so it was really unique from the fact that this is uh picking up the mantle of Frank L wri's work here in the valley and one of the first structures to be built after his death got a lot of press at the time and it's been a landmark at the time of the design many of the talles and Architects uh that worked with Wright were actually Town residents uh Charles month is one that comes up uh regularly so there's a deep history and Legacy of these right apprentices within the town so it's appropriate that this building uh was completed and and stands for a little while little more history it's been a visible Gateway uh for for decades now I don't think uh Katherine and I uh TR tried to find somebody who could remember a time when this building was not there there's very few of us left that could uh I could not and uh now that it's sold and likely to be demolished we thought it appropriate to take a look at saving a piece of this history so a group of us has come together I'll give introductions in a minute but um we were concerned that there's should be something that is appropriate to retain from this structure that could enhance the town so we came together there's been a gift proposal negotiated to save a piece of of this structure and we sort of came together um with council member leel and our uh historic advisory committee chair Katherine uh Kaufman and myself as you know my work on Hillside and many others um were tirelessly to kind of move this forward the Spire itself is the most visible aspect of that structure it's what everybody sees as they kind of enter the town especially from that Indian Bend Mocking Bird Gateway um it kind of reminds I believe residents of the history and the more rural nature of uh expansive views of Paradise Valley and it's been in the foreground of that that sort of East slope of mummy Mountain since 196 3 so we thought it might be an appropriate piece that we could save as an artistic gesture to me memorialize this structure um this opportunity has come our way and after study we decided that really this the Spire was the thing to focus on it's the one thing that is that is removable mobile and reinstall and a good expression of uh the art that adorned that property so the current owner of the parcel is indicated they will gift the Spire to the town at no cost the current owner of the parcel also has indicated they will assist to the removal of the spire and will contribute to the relocation efforts and costs so this is pretty much a zero cost gift um we've also determined within the community uh and identified a number of people that have the assets and means that they would contribute uh with financial support is necessary to cover any cost overruns for removal and transport of of the uh element of the Spire they'd also uh cover any future costs of relocation as may be needed because we're asking today to accept the SP and then there'll be a future use for it so our group would propose and ask that the council consider approving acceptance of the gift to the town um we ask the council so that they would consider improved storage of this fire section so it doesn't take up a lot of space uh and installation can be explored and implemented for a future use of this artistic element so a few ideas of what could be done with it it's not Paramount to the decision today but the Spire could live on once it's saved uh this is a historic sculptural element that could become a CommunityWide asset and we think we could explore some ideas to repurpose that fire we'd remove any religious reference so it become a community art piece as you would uh rather than anything symbolic um we have Eric Peterson here today quite graciously did some artistic um uh architectural renderings for us just to give an idea of how this piece could be reinstalled somewhere within the town um this happens to be just sort of like a campus setting it has a non climbable base this purely for illustration but it does show you how the Spire might be relocated and placed with either a variety of messages or plaques uh we could memorialize it as a as a visual Beacon for residents or a place for visitors to gain history of the town could be a place of historical Milestones or I I do like the idea of of honorifics or just a place to explore the town's history so our group views that relocation storage and future installation of this fire really celebrates an important piece of what was the town's history this is a reflection of our past and our future um I think it's a perfect example of a targeted Community preservation piece uh it's something that we haven't had a lot of opportunity to to do and to explore and I think it's very unique um for a community to look at saving the best element of a structure that has some historic reference some Community reference but um becomes something that everyone can enjoy in the future so that's the unique opportunity in front of us I give you the the very brief overview so I didn't take too much of your valuable time but the uh it comes down to this very soon the structure is going to be demolished we have people in place including the the owner developer who's willing to uninstall this piece section it and deliver it to the town as a gift uh at no cost or consequence um we've uh explored ideas for storage and we've explored ideas for future installation and how that might be funded so that uh it's frankly a no cost or lowcost option for the town in the future So today we're just here to explore the idea of could we save a piece of this structure so thank you any questions I'm here for you and Katherine is as well thank you if I could and thank you so much for joining us Eric would you like to join us at the at the table in case there are any questions for you um I have a few I first want to thank you all for being here and I have a few things uh that I'd like to say about this but I wanted to see if council member leel wanted to uh kick us off with this since she's worked very hard on it thank we all have I mean um and Katherine Koffman had a a little piece we had put together too for uh just a little bit of the brief history of the group and how we got together so she I'd like to defer to you first and then I do have a few comments and then we'll open and then I'd love to hear Eric talk a little bit more about how this can actually be done so okay so hello um it was in December 2023 the Town volunteers including Scott jarson Hillside chair Christine lebel the lezon of the historical committee Doug Jordan and myself chair of the historical committee came together to try and save the building located at 7100 North Mockingbird Lane that was originally designed by three tell and Architects William Welsley Peters John rattenberry and Charles man manth uh when we learned that the building could not be saved from Demolition we focused our attention on saving the Spire I would like to tell you a little bit about the history of the property back in the 1960s when Ascension Lutheran was looking to expand from its location at Indian Bend a church member saxi dowel spoke highly of the new town of Paradise Valley where he lived saxi sold a 10 acre parcel on Mockingbird Lane between Hummingbird Lane and metalark Lane at to Ascension Lutheran when it came time to design and build the building the Ascension members looked to Frank Lloyd Wright because of his deep connection to the desert and the members desire to quote break with the traditional Gothic or quaint country style Church unquote according to a longtime member dick faser Frank Lloyd Wright was one of the most notable architects in American history he was inspired to create structures that would complement nature Frank Lloyd Wright had a school for architecture in the desert that we would visit and discuss our vision for a church campus unquote The tascent Architects worked together to design the building based on three geometric forms the Pentagon the circle and the straight line the main building the only section of the design that was built is in the shape of a pentagon which allowed for a large area enhancing the visual and acoustical experiences the circle section of the building was never built and the straight line was represented by the Spire the building designed was unique and true to the tascent style of architecture the building for its architectural significance and its iconic SP Spire has been a landmark in the town of Paradise Valley for the past 60 years thank you thank you Katherine thanks Katherine and uh the only thing I would add to that is that um I think that um trying to save the Spire is in line with our general plan is the community character and housing 2.6 the town shall support the development of architecturally significant public and private buildings and Resort developments and key locations to create new landmarks and focal features that contribute to the town's identity and value the town's location climate and historic Legacy as well as Community Care in housing 2.7 the town shall recognize promote and support the preservation of significant historic places throughout the community that contribute to the town's overall character so being that it's in line being that it's in line with the general plan um it should be a no cost issue for the town uh the church wanted the town to be the first one to get this they wanted this to be gifted to the town there are other significant organizations that would be thrilled to have this as I'm sure Eric can speak to and Scott but we we have being offered the gift first all we're asking for right now is a place to maintain it until we have a 100% idea of what the ultimate repurposing is going to be hopefully would be somewhere on Town property if that uh was the wish of council and staff uh but for the meantime we we've done a great job I feel all of us in getting it this far it's been a lot of work it's been a lot of contribution from a lot of different um collaborators working together which I like it's um maybe different end games but all coming together to do something um to preserve Our Town history uh so the ask is just a place to store it while we um go on to part two and Eric I'd love for you to chip in with anything you you have to say about the significance of the architecture because I know you're a big tell um historian and travel globally and understand the significance of of what this is and what it would mean for the town so thank you very much yeah thank you thank you Mr Mayor and council members and uh Eric Peterson I own PHX architecture have done a number of projects within the town of Paradise Valley and um started my career at talas and Architects and um am now sit on the Frankl Lord W Foundation or to Governors I'm a honorary fellow and sit on the Frank right conservancy and was honored just to be able to remodel the Arizona builtmore hotel which is also thought of to be frank Lord Wright but is MacArthur which is uh one of his apprentices and certainly just sold you know they bought it for Blackstone bought it for 400 and some million and just sold it for 700 million with the remodel work that we've done and we've created a Spire in honor of Frank l r at the at the hotel which is now called the Spire bar so these iconic elements ments are known uh and uh lots of different communities have put up spires and saved spires if at the corner of Scottdale and Frankl Wright you know there was an Spire that was created that Frankl Wright had designed for the Arizona State Capital and uh that developer had hired tasan Architects at the time when I was there to recreate that put that up and it's become a real icon for the city of Scottdale um I was on the city of Scottdale uh uh uh public art board for six years and so I'm familiar with public art pieces and how they should be designed and how they should look and and for maintenance and repair and so we sort of designed this uh in in sort of understanding sort of those challenges and what a town would have to do to maintain that over the years but um certainly appreciate you uh considering this today and we'd love to be able to see something uh like this stay and be uh loved within the town thank you thank you well um I want to start by expressing my gratitude to everyone who's been involved in this uh looking around the table uh Katherine is the chair of our historical advisory committee Eric for your jumping into this as an expert Scott uh using your design architect hat in addition to your role in the hillside committee and of course council member leel and I think uh for me at least this is a situation where uh through the work of all of the volunteers and other volunteers who participated on this as a team to as council member leel said you know look for the common interest and find a win-win um and working with the property owner uh and their support and their willingness to donate and and facilitate um which we just heard about their their plans which are also respectful of the town's zoning which I I for one greatly appreciate um we're at this spot where uh I I have to take a step back and just applaud everybody who's worked on this and including and especially our staff as well we have a a resolution or a directive in our packet that the town attorney and town manager worked on with council member leel and others to try to make sure that we could uh not get to the final conclusion of of what happens with this structure but at least preserve it here it's my understanding also that preserving it here is not a a cost or an issue for the town it's would go in the public works yard and space that we already have and since it's fortunately an outdoor structure it can be kept outside it can keep its place in in The Great Outdoors um but most of all I just it's it's really gratifying and nice to see when something that could be potentially controversial or um get people upset to see the teamwork and the dedication of a of a lot of really caring people to come forward with something that's constructive and uh I appreciate the interaction I've had with each of you along the way to try to help facilitate in any way I can your great energy on this so I'm really excited about the gift and then uh knowing our our Council and our community there will be more discussion and we can have that now or later about um location scope size you know whatever happens next with this important historical piece and uh we we had some offline discussion about that already about you know how this works and where it works and obviously that can be resolved in the same Cooperative collaborative win-win way later I would absolutely believe so uh again just wanted to start off I don't have any questions I've been fortunate to get looped in along the way as these things are going forward just gratitude for everyone's work all volunteer work as usual and um a lot of thought that's gone into this to try to make it um something that's important and a legacy for the town and and uh and and not just the outcome but how you've gone about it is really commendable doing it in the right way in a service-minded way to try to get um something really positive done so my thanks to each of you and I will yield for questions from the council or comments council member Andy uh thank you mayor and thank you to the historical committee the Spire committee Mr Peterson Scott good to see you thank you uh I think this is great um I grew up in the town and and uh learned how to ride a bike and a motorcycle in the parking lot of Ascension Lutheran so um yeah I'm I'm uh very excited to see that uh this moving forward and um I think it's great I was driving with my mom right after this was sold and she had mentioned to me that uh she hoped that we saved a piece of the church um given the historical presence of it and I grew up in a home that was uh the architect was Calvin stra so I'm very understanding of uh Frank lyd Wright's work and um the appreciation of the work that goes into um this and so I just wanted to thank uh the own the new owners if they're here oh thank you and um I think it's great thank you thank you anyone else Council M Thompson I'll just chime in and thank everyone especially the new owners for your contribution and donation and the work of the allstar team to preserve it it's I mean it's great to accept the donation I'm certainly in favor of that and to see it end up in a happy place wherever that is I'll look forward to that so congratulations and thank you all vice mayor Stanton thank you mayor uh there's nothing that I don't like about this it's such a great Community effort and thank you uh to the applicant for the new development that you're bringing to Paradise Valley so many times preservation is an afterthought and it's gone before it can be considered or preserved uh and usually at the end there's people chaining themselves to whatever it is trying to stop it and so uh I would uh I would compliment council member leel who brought this uh to many of our attention in the fall and really talked us through Eric thank you for taking the time with me Katherine this is right in line with uh the wonderful things that you and your committee do and Scott thank you for your wisdom and help on this I think it's a a great win-win um it's a great example of community spirit and preservation thank you a thank you counc yeah thank you I can't tell I apologize yeah I on my peers comments it's just an awesome moment when we can save something special to remember our history in the town and ension Lutheran has you know it's there from the beginning um so you know it's definitely been a collaborative effort and it's you know it's unfortunate we're seeing our hous of worships transition but this one in particular has a lot of historic significance and Architectural significance so you know we'll see how it develops and where we put it to be celebrating it but um you know kudos for everyone for for saving it and for the donors for helping um to preserve and dismantle it and it's just always good when we can save a little bit of the tapestry of our community of the history that we can enjoy so thank you all and I yield thank you council member more thank you mayor uh yeah I'd like to just say this same thing my colleagues are I appreciate all the work that's gone into this I'm glad we're moving forward on saving it and uh hopefully find a home for it somewhere someday but um just a couple questions it's it's very um on the church it it's it's it fits the scale of the church but how tall is this this spire so um we we don't have an exact as built measurement but from from the very base of the Spire to the very very top 7 7 ft on plan how many 7 77 77 uh to put it in context that's a little bit higher than the tallest Mexican fan palm you'll see in the in the town tried to do a little little homework on scale for that just kind of give it some some idea um so it is a design that could be if we needed to sectioned and reduced in size it'll be reduced in size because the top of the Spire is intended to come off remove any religious reference so that's kind of the worst case scenario for height um it should actually scale down as needed thanks Scott and one of the things you mentioned that I was going to ask about is on the base itself that based on the illustration is it's not a climbable base so uh but that sounds like once again in in scale that's going to be pretty massive piece of concrete it looks like concrete here but yeah we were starting at about 10 8 to 10 feet just as a thought so going up from there and that SP going from there so just trying to keep it so that we didn't want to put like a fence around it and try to keep it off that way so we could try to lower that or even put it down into an area that may have a lower ground so maybe if in a wash area or a depressed area where it actually starts to lower it from all the ground around it if there's an intent keep in mind that the upper maybe 20 ft of this is quite small it it's EI it's probably not even 5 foot in diameter and goes up to literally just a point so that that upper portion of probably 20 ft is is Tiny almost nonvisible as you could see when in the uh in the in the exhibit well unfortunately we have to think about the negative actions that could occur from this people climbing it and putting things on it that's right and so where it goes and so I mean it's it's still going to be very massive in scale so yes I think where it goes it would need that which is what we're going to talk about someday in future so but anyways I just want to bring that up thank you and I think that's kind of the if I may just you know that's that's the beauty of this object is that um while it has some some size and some impact it's also scalable it's easy to store and um we've taken some time to explore a placement that makes it an asset and not uh an attractive nuisance so uh I think we can get there appreciate that thank you thank you um council member leel do you have anything else just going to say in closing um if there's anybody that we forgot to thank for this I mean I know 180 degrees I don't think we called them out John Anderson who came out at his own time his own expense to actually take a drone and measure and look at the spire and see how it could be uh you know re-erected at a later time how to take it down um there was a lot of collaborators that aren't in the room and people who acted not out of self-interest but complete passion for it um again the the owner the Builder Doug who actually helped to facilitate initially you know before you were working working over there uh but uh just the way everybody came together and uh the community and even um people who don't live in the town but are um passionate about architecture and um and we welcome all of these questions about height and everything else moving forward we know they're going to come up and I feel like again we're going to work in the in the same way uh that we did with this you know if um if there's there's issues that are um you know uh non-negotiable for people will work that way I think just the fact that we can save the Spire is really what we're after right now and a place to put it and and on that last note I would like to say where it is now it's 180 feet so it'll be a reduction no matter what we do how's that okay thank you well um great work great feedback we certainly have time to this buys us time to figure out all the answers to the questions that have been raised and having the benefit of serving with council member Moore for many years I know if I may and you tell me if I'm wrong I think part of his thought bubble was obviously around town we're sensitive to height we just finished a conversation about cell phone infr structure which is a critical infrastructure piece and there was a lot of back and forth about how tall is this going to be so I don't think it's I'm not interpreting that any of that in the vein of this particular structure but just wanting to make sure that it's sensitive to those constraints that we have um but I also agree with council member leel and and I think all of us would agree that there's a way to get to a a winning Solution on this especially with that the other the last thing I'd like to add that I neglected to add is I want to Express gratitude to the congregation uh that just wrapped up and absolutely hear you know some lamentation about closing of a church but I was really uplifted by what the church leaders had to say which is that their mission is as much as they love their building is focused on serving the community as it exists now and they're going to continue to do that so kudos to them it's you know the building is is is a building this piece will be preserved through their cooperation through the cooperation of the property owner but I um I know we're all aware of that story but that's part of the story to be told here is that this isn't the it may be the death of the of the building but it's not the death of the church the church lives on and they're refocused on spending their money and their time and their energy in service um rather than and I don't mean to speak for them but from what I've read and understood is that this building was requiring a lot of upkeep maintenance money to keep it in service for that congregation they just decided to dedicate that towards their their mission which is great so I grateful to them as well for their their role in this and uh once again as you've heard many times thank you to all of our a team of volunteers and experts um and for all you've done and and once again thank you to our staff for working hard on this uh kind of oneoff uh project but important project and again council member Lael great work bringing people together and and working hard on this I know you've put a lot of energy into this and and uh you've done it in an examplary way I think it's a model for working with Community groups and bringing in the council and working collaboratively so thank you for that all right thank you thank you all appreciate your time thank you nothing else matters fting a couple hard thank you so much thanks G doesn't okay we'll take can we is it okay for everyone if we take a like a very short recess bathroom break we're a little bit ahead on time is that okay yeah I need to actually make a phone call my trucks in shop something happened with the it's a hybrid and I was getting a service like we're supposed to leave for Cali e e e are we uh Duncan are we ready to roll everyone ready hi good afternoon mayor and Council um thank you for having us back to talk about the handbook update so I just want to cover what's happened since we met with Council the first time on this topic so again we just kind of want to cover where we've already started and so um one of the things is that this was a longstanding HR project um I I've uncovered several drafts of this but none of them ever made it before you to be considered so I'm excited that we're having the second conversation about this today the intent of the handbook is to provide clear delegation of authority granted by Town Council to the town manager and in doing so prepare a document that is reflective of the current and best employment practice practices and also the delegation of authority granted to the town manager so the town manager can then make the operational decisions related to The Authority granted by Council and then with the structure I will let Mr Gaylor take over so the the structure if you take a look at the little icons on the side it's it's pretty straightforward they're it's basically a two-step process to get all of your HR policies so there's the handbook which is adopted by Council which is what's before you today and the handbook is the core it sets uh the policy on every major topic of uh Town Personnel Administration and it gives specific delegations to the town manager to fill in details and flesh things out um this is not a new structure this is the town's current structure that the town has had for decades and decades but um over time you know it's just just how it works when you have a big complicated document that's being amended over years and years the current document has become a little bit less clear uh uh as far as you know what's going on you know so when you want to follow those clear lines of Delegation from the Town Council to the town manager in the current version Sometimes It's Tricky uh we currently have administrative policies adopted by the town manager we currently have a handbook and there are places where you have to do a little bit of digging or a little bit of research to track the delegation and how it line how the handbook and the administrative policies line up so at its core what we've done here is just tighten it up um we've re redrafted the handbook redrafted the policies renumbered everything so that you can clearly follow you know the council's policy setting and delegation in the handbook to the matching administrative policy or vice versa you can pick up an administrative policy um and read it and say well where did the manager get the authority to do this where's the policy that that this falls under and you can go straight back to the handbook and see that and so you can see where this came from and and the extent to which it's consistent with the direction that Council has given so again the process was we reviewed the entire handbook and tried to identify language that did need to retain um under Council Authority and language that could be moved over to the town manager in doing so we weren't able to produce a line version of the handbook because it was effectively Rewritten in its entirety so the handbook was Rewritten along with um now 22 administrative policies to support the handbook that is presented before you today um during the last meeting um during study session Council had asked um where the changes were and how the changes were made and that proved to be a very effective question and basically conducting an audit of the draft handbook and in doing so um what have in front of you is the crosswalk I call it from the table of contents of the current handbook over to where that information landed in either the new hbook or the new policy um and so that that proved to be very effective um for me just to ensure that we hadn't missed anything and I will tell you in doing so one piece that that was overlooked was workers compensation and that the current handbook lists how we will actually manage workers comp claims and I thought the claim administrative current administrative policy covered that when in effect it only covered property claims and so that is why you now have 22 administrative policies in this packet instead of 21 as previously because I wrote the workers comp admin policy as a result of this audit um for you all today so with that um there were um several changes uh to the hbook in terms of from the crosswalk and just making sure everything was very clear as well well as feedback received from Council on the handbook itself so I did put the notable handbook revisions um on this PowerPoint but it's they're also detailed in your staff report that I also provided you in hard copy and so those I just wanted to call those out to you because and those are Redline documents um in the agenda itself so the draft the second draft of the handbook that outlines these changes they are redlined for you in that document so you can see clearly where those changes were made from the original draft and the administrative policies were also updated as a result of the crosswalk process and the handbook amendments and those are also in the agenda um those changes are also called out in the staff report I didn't want to spend a lot of time on all of those for you but I am certainly happy to answer any questions you might have on either the handbook changes and or the administrative policies or how we got to where we are today so that is my presentation thank you thank you we have questions from Council I could start us off while everyone's looking through this if that's okay I had a question uh and start with the comment thank you for for uh putting all of this together it's been a heavy lift we know that I'm really grateful to have uh Gus rosenfeld's help and John you know I've had the the opportunity obviously I work with Andrew all of us do quite often and I'm exceptionally happy with his work I've also had the the privilege of working with you and have a a tremendous amount of confidence in you as well um one of the things we asked uh you all to do was to put together this budget neutral identified legal impact um most of them are black meaning there's no impact to the budget and there's no impact to Legal would you be kind enough to walk us through the ones that are read where there could be an impact and explain to us um what the impact might be um if you can in Open Session if not we can I I would probably ask for an e session for those but in in some whatever you can explain publicly about that and also why the changes were made um I think that would help me at least sure great okay so um with respect to the ones that were highlighted in red as having an impact um either budget or legal the first one is on the second page second line from the top and the current handbook is inv voluntary termination but what it is relating to actually is reduction and force layoffs and furlows and the reason why is highlighted as a legal potential legal impact is because the language is in draft in an administrative policy it has not been finalized um but the notation is that before any such of those activities would occur we would finalize the policy and have that in place before we began any sort of reduction Force layoff or F low process but I just wanted to call out that that was one that was not finalized and prepared for you today so as a followup to that am I understanding that that the intention is to keep it in draft because it's not needed and things may change leading up to an event like that or is it because it's not quite finished yet or maybe a combination of both um no it is not finished in time for presentation for you today the intent is to have that one along with several others that need to either be updated that are current um current administrative policies or such as this one that it's a new one that just needs to be written um it was one that I didn't deem was necessarily a high priority it because at this point I'm not aware of you know any circumstances that would result the need for right away okay and is there a timeline that that has been set to do that um not specifically but but I have a list there's two or three um similar ones to this that that are part of this project that need to be completed um if the handbook is approved by Council okay and so sorry last question I feel like I'm taking down a rabbit hole but um are in those instances where there's policies like that that are still in the works I don't have a specific concern about that because I think on all the time I've been on Council we haven't even seen anything like this so having the transparency and visibility into this is a is a I think a big step forward but is are those policies things that would be brought back to us to review or are they within the delegated authority that that we would be if we were to prove this that we'd be endorsing or is it depend Case by case it would be Case by case this would in particular I believe it's delegated to the town manager but I believe the town manager has indicated that you know we are going to make these available to council you know um we they can either be done you know shared with you prior to or at the time they go into effect um because again there's this is about transparency and you know we're not interested in you know having anyone be surprised by by what we're doing with the delegated authority yeah and I'm not looking to necessarily see like a a reduction in force policy is something I wouldn't have the expertise to to um at this in a government context really vet anyway it's probably something that had this not been brought forward I wouldn't be losing sleep over uh because there you know there's laws and other things that govern that and I with the team that we have I'm confident that would be done correctly and there would be Council discussions leading into something like that anyway I'm sure and that's not on the horizon okay and the other ones um yes so the next one is on the same page um and it is article six changes employment status death and that change was um originally the language talked about sickly being paid out at 100% upon death to um family members or estate and that that one sick leave typically is not cashed out at 100% much less to an estate so we did change that to where sick leave is only cashed out upon retirement and you have to meet the certain qualifiers in retirement um vacation leave because that is already a benefit that you've earned that one does remain um part of an estate or anything should should the employee um pass away so the effect of that is that it could affect could reduce the budget liability um though though the lik hood is is probably minimal at best um the next highlight is on page three I believe it's three and it is the same it's just the reference specifically to sick leave and it's that same change where we changed the cash out to only be upon retirement separation from service over a certain number of years and those are all of the budget Andor legal impacts that were highlighted based upon the changes that were made proposed okay other question thank you so much sorry to put you on the spot on that one but you handled it admirably that is what I am here for council member Thomas and then council member Andy I just had a a couple comments first of all I applaud the addition of the code of ethics and the code of conduct at the beginning of the handbook I think that sets a a good starting point um secondly I want to thank you for answering all my detailed questions at the study session before you addressed all of those and thirdly I just want to applaud you for an extraordinary amount of work when I saw the side by side comparison I pictured you here late into the night and on Saturdays and sunnday suay is just an extraordinary amount of work and to your earlier comment that this has been on the to-do list for a long time and since you've joined us you were able to take over this big body of work and work with Gus Rosenfeld and get it done and I just wanted to thank you for that thank you it was definitely a collaborative effort and um I am very grateful for John's offer of assistance um I left his his offer so that's certainly helped us get here today thank you council member uh thank you mayor um thank you for your presentation and going through this and and the crosswalk it's very helpful um one question I had for you um is just so I am understanding the uh delegation of authorities have not changed except for the one so now we have 22 delegations of authority to the town manager so that is all the [Music] same there uh council member anden there are probably a higher number of delegations okay there's probably not more work being done by the manager I think what it is is you have um we have been more clear and more transparent about saying manager you can do this thing where in practice over the last there so there's a couple of different things going on one thing is that over years of practice we've had managers implementing policies we know they're doing it it was with the council consent but the handbook didn't Clearly say do B policy right so we've tried to get rid of that eliminate that practice and so everything that the manager is doing we specifically say he's doing it so that has increased the number of explicit delegations there is also a good amount of content that's overly detailed that we have moved out of the handbook and that has resulted also in more delegations so between delegations being called out more consistently and actually in some cases making more delegations to get some of the details out there are more delegations now than there well there will be more delegations if you approve this than there were before and is that nor thank you is that normal for a city or town to have that many delegations in an emplo for to the town manager for an employee handbook is that do other cities and towns have the same structure council member anden what I would say um is normal is the situation that we have now which is that there's a lot of areas of unclarity uh or lack of clarity the um there's a lot of areas where staff is making decisions and when you stop and investigate and try to find the exact clear delegation it's hard to find that I would say that's normal um there are other municipalities that are working towards this same goal that I'm aware of that are trying to clear it up trying to create clearer delegations um and also trying to get their councils out of the week weeds um I would not say that a perfect set of delegations is normal it might be the normal goal but it's not what everybody is accomplishing so would you estimate that including the 22 delegations and you said there's a lot more so it would be what 50 delegations for the town manager or well it depends on how you count them member andine um the there are 22 policies that you're telling him to implement within those policies so for example one of the policies might be a policy on miscellaneous benefits there's more than one miscellaneous benefit identified in there right and so you could call that one delegation you could say that you've delicated to your manager the ability to set up miscellaneous benefits but it's not that blank of a check you in the in the handbook you're actually telling him exactly which miscellaneous benefits he can he can do right so the miscellaneous benefit AP is actually like how many specific delegations is it right because you've gone in and told them these are the ones you know not whatever you want okay understood and that comes through the handbook as far as the specific delegations so so salary is a good example um the the salary section of the handbook identifies the specific situations in which the town manager can then create an administrative policy supporting that type of salary adjustment um so so it is there and clear one of the things in the current h book is that it's the the delegation is at the beginning and it says the town manager May um establish administrative policies um but within the current handbook it it's it's applicable to across the whole thing but it's not clear you know if there's something that's not in the handbook was it intended for the C for the town manager to be able to create administrative policy whereas this format is is just a an enhancement of what we're currently doing and it specifically says such as miscellaneous benefits is that the town manager is able to create an administrative policy um from this delegation of authority subject to budget limitations so at the end of the day council is not only saying they can do it but you have to do it within the budget so so there is still that overarching Authority from the council that that authorizes the town manager to do it okay all right thank you I yield oh mayor had to step out for just a minute um council member leel did you have a comment first of all thank you so much for that robust presentation I mean it's so it it you know as as council member Thomasson said that look like a lot of work so so thank you for doing that uh two questions I had um one would be in the code of contact code of conduct under uh fundamental expectations um 3.1 employees will not engage in any conduct conduct that whether on or off duty is on becoming in detrimental their duties position or the town employees will treat each other in all persones respectfully just curious as to and perhaps it's in here but that was a lot of heavy reading so um who is that determination made by is there like objective criteria is it their direct supervisor is human resources is it the town manager um having you know just my personal history having worked for an organization where there was a a lot of uh you know top up top down uh for 32 years and we had a robust employee handbook somewhat like this but it was applied not always um you know they yeah exactly so how how do we make sure it's objective yeah Human Resources always the the interesting challenge of everything is subjective and you're trying to make it objective right so um but with respect to off-duty conduct and whether that's you know Behavior whether that's you know um if you're getting citations because you're driving or you're what you're posting on social media you know the first thing is is is there a Nexus to the work meaning is there a reason why we would care why an employee is doing X Y or Z and how does it affect them here and it is very much Case by case because what a police officer is doing or not doing off duty may be a very different response from the Town versus what you know um one of our customer service folks are doing so I can't give you a real straight answer because it is very very case specific very specific to the set of circumstances um but what I can tell you is is that that you know we aren't looking for it in terms as the employer we're not out there you know scrubbing people social medias or you know doing you know un unsolicited uh background checks or things like that that there there is something that would cause us to even look at anything and then if if there is something for us to look at it you know we're going to be very cautious when it comes to off duty or any work that is not being done here any anything outside of the work environment you know it's you have to tread very care carefully and you know I got Andrew Maguire giving me the look so Andrew feel free to chime in thank you very much I thank you any other questions do council member Pace no Shee in council member Pace um thank you mayor um thank you mayor the only question I had I I I first of all I applaud the hard work I know it's been really hard and I've dug in and look at it too and Gina's done a great job on that um and John's assistance and the town manager um question about I I I applaud all the new changes and the improvements being made and the clarity that's improving for employees to find stuff in an easy manner with a good table of contents but I still have a little bit of concern about discussion on delegations that's probably my you know only heartburn area right now I if no other cities or towns are doing it this way I get concerned when we go out of the box on something like this to expand it you know these delegations and I I feel like it's not it's not clear enough John and know know more John than Gina but you know what you're asking us and then we'd be doubling the amount of delegations and then others you're saying are other municipalities are trying to go this direction but no one really has yet so I need could you just try to help you know why are we doing it different and what are we trying to accomplish with it that is it is it a Time efficiency is it a control factor to not have to go to Council on policies and you know give us a better explanation because it it's just there was nowhere else to look to that's doing this and so I got some feedback from our last meeting that people thought maybe as a council we shouldn't be doing this um from residents not people doing HR and employment but just the residents who are concerned so can you just talk a little bit more about why we're going out of the box on this to delegate from the council to uh not look at these things and be less involved in it thank you council member Pace um can you hear me yes okay thank you thank you um well so first I don't want to give a impression that I'm making a bigger statement than I am there are 91 cities and towns in Arizona and I do not know every single one of their employee handbooks um you know I'm familiar with a couple dozen of them that I've that I've worked with or looked at bad I don't know them all and so I can't say that no one else uh is has adopted this structure uh I do know one place that is working on the same structure that uh or very similar to this structure um so but I don't know if someone already has this right we may not be the first there may be someone out there um but the other thing that I would say when we talk about increasing the number of delegations that probably comes from me and I probably should have been more Artful the way I said that in the last meeting because I do think that's true and I'll give an example of where that's true and the example and I may have given this the same example last time was internships is that right now the council has a section of the handbook that talks about internships and creating internship opportunities and it's not very specific um because um we don't really know what internship opportunities may become available who's going to be interested what will be going on in the town that will be beneficial to a young person to get involved in all those things right and so now there is a clear delegation to the town manager saying look we think internships are a good thing when the opportunities are there we think it can benefit the town it can benefit young people and so we're delegating to the town manager the ability to create internship programs that are appropriate that is a clear delegation that we if you if you adopt this structure that will exist that doesn't exist now so that would be a new additional delegation um we think that's appropriate for a couple of reasons the one reason being that we believe the detail of you know really getting into the you know these hypothetical potential future internship programs might be a little bit below the level of the council right you're you're busy you have a lot going on you have a lot of other things to work on and we don't have those programs right now but the other thing is that uh is flexibility is we think that's an area where when an opportunity presents itself right a big project comes on maybe this project would have been a great one to get some interns involved right to help Gina go through some of this stuff um and do some of the heavy uh the initial sort of research and combing through these things um but when opportunities like that come up we it's beneficial for the town manager to have some flexibility to create you know maybe a new internship program or create some specific rules for it so that we can not miss the opportunity right the opportunity being a a person with a skill set who's available and wants to volunteer their time or the opportunity being a project that the town needs help with and that's valuable to young people that kind of thing so it's a great example we do believe that's a new delegation and we think it makes sense for that to be a delegation it'll actually improve internships right for the town right they'll be better because the town manager will be able to be more responsive and and create good ones so most of the new delegations I would say are analogous to that right and I don't think there's very many of them there are a few things that you are now delegating that you hadn't previously delegated the vast majority of EXP licit delegations that are going to be in the new uh structure currently exist they're just not as transparent they're not called out and so what I would say is the change that we're making is that we are documenting more of what we're currently doing next week if you adopt this now and let's say it goes into effect tomorrow I know it doesn't but just for this conversation um if you walked in the door next week I think you would see your town manager doing the same thing he's doing now and I think you'd see your town staff doing the same thing they're doing now and they'd be following the same rules they're following now and they'd be taking advantage of the same benefits that they're taking advantage of now the difference would be that you will have a better and more userfriendly document where you that you can turn to and you can clearly read why are people doing these things what rules are they following you can read it and find it better you have to do less research uh I don't believe that the town manager will have a significantly larger amount of Authority or discretion next week compared to what he has this week or after adoption of this compared to before what it what you'll have is you'll have a more transparent uh and a more robust documentation of exactly what it is you're letting him do it'll be roughly the same things that you're letting him do now okay um well thank you John for that explanation it's just a little bit you know it's always a little bit different to have us out of the box on these things and it's if it's just a matter of you know some new program coming comes up in a policy and you know in a twoe time period he needs to add it to the council agenda we're not that busy I mean we have you know we're not that busy as a council compared other Council so we have time to do that if we want to add it onto our agenda so I don't have a problem in looking at things that pop up that he wants opinions on and um you know I'm just trying to figure out what time savings are is that if that's the only thing we're doing I don't have a problem with that popping up in the future if we're going to do something different like uh a decision on starting terms at at the town is just present it add it to the list if someone have a comment we ask about it if not we just approve it but I just get a little bit uncomfortable with that many delegations and not really understanding you know the whole Pro I mean I have no problem with you know the improvements and I have no problem with anything else I just as a council you know we're very Hands-On we like to talk about things we just like to keep our eye on things to keep it more in the PV way way and um we have a lot of new people that wouldn't want to make a mistake but wouldn't maybe know um and if they just ran it by us or it was in a packet for even our consent agenda for a new inter program it might cause us to go away you know here's something to think about in paraly valy So anyway I don't you know I have the improvements are all great I think uh getting this done I know it's been a long-term project and thanks to Gina and her has a great style for being HR there and I think that's really and Improvement I just uh have some reservations about this whole delegation discussion but anyway I yielded from there but thank you everyone and thanks for the comments thank you council member Lael was asking for yeah go ahead is that okay thank you mayor um to that point I I and I'd like some clarification on this but I think that um I think if I'm understanding it correctly there's still um so section k um page one Section 102 it's I don't know if it's in there but it's on the um in our presentations on the employee handbook on uh all the way you know over here under the attachments section k um it says page one Section 102 letter A the Town Council reserves the right and authority to amend change or discontinue any provision of this handbook approved changes will be communicated to all Town employees so in the event there was some delegation that the council decides that's not working for us and we should be able to take that back or let's revisit that so there there is something in here that will address the the question of delegating to management in the event we find it's not working well so there is something in there that will address council member Paces I'm thinking am I right do I understand that correctly okay thank you I yield thanks thank you council member if Mr Mayor if I if I may on that point because I think that's a really good point um one of our goals in doing this is to and one way we think this enhances transparency but also strengthens your control over you know as the policymaking body over the town Workforce is that we're making it easier for you to yank back Authority from the town manager so if you see something that the town manager is doing and you don't like it first you can see what he's doing in writing right you can look at whatever policy he's made and then you can clearly see well what does he claim that Authority is coming from right so there it is it's policy number five you can look at chapter five of your handbook and say okay is that consistent and if you find out that it is consistent but you still don't like it well you can go in and Change chapter five of your handbook and you can yank that delegation right away from him whereas right now of course you can still do that right but what you might say is you might have a longer period of where did this come from did we give him authority to do that if we want to revoke that what well when did we give it to him we need to figure out when we gave it to him so we can revoke it right it's it's clearer it's more direct you can see exactly what he's relying on to do the thing you don't like and that then you know exactly where to go to make your change yeah thank you I'll start with uh thanking for the work and and doing the things the policy I'm sure it's going to be things we like um I'm confident in that and but one I think I going to take a step back here because we're having some Nuance discussion and I'm going to try to distill it and please correct me if I'm getting any of this wrong but I think our legal council's being very diplomatic in suggesting that not everybody has this level of detail and transparency but when I look at our this doesn't have pracy over the code correct our town code when I look at our town code the grant of authority of the Town manager is huge so that goes back to when we talk about past practice it's not to criticize prior Town managers because in my opinion they act within their Authority I've pulled up the code I always start with that as my reference point section 3-2-6 powers and duties of the Town manager a general administrative supervision execute on behalf of the mayor and Council General administrative Supervision in control of the Affairs of the town and enforce the provisions of this code B is appointment and removal of an office employees appoint remove suspend promote and demote he may recommend appointment power of appointment is subject to all applicable ordinances um D coordination of administrative functions coordinate the administrative functions and operations of the various departments Etc and make uh policy or Implement that and then um L consolidation abolishment Etc of town offices may make cause or to be made studies and surveys of Duties responsibilities and this is probably the most pertinent one uh work of Personnel in the various departments and services in town government and to recommend to the Town Council abolition or consolidation of positions whenever in his judgment Etc so I'm viewing this starting point as because we all know we've got a town manager and a town attorney that report directly to us and everybody else in the organization is going uh with again the volunteer judicial portion separated out but within this part of the building um I always viewed it as the grant of authority the town manager is other than setting policy when it comes to Administration including Personnel in other words anyone working for the town manager is extremely Broad and what I'm understanding this to do when we talk about delegation I don't see it as a new delegation of a new Authority that doesn't exist in the code I'm seeing it if I'm understanding correctly what I thought coming into this and what you're saying is a not removing the the um it's taking anticipated situations like internships and putting a policy in place that's disclosed to everybody ahead of time and then having us look at it but these are all authorities that the town manager in my reading we've had interns for example before um on in the legal department and other places and those have happened and I think we've enjoyed that and it's been good for everybody I never thought that was outside the manager or the town attorney's Authority it's just the question of whether there was a clear policy so when I'm hearing delegation I'm hearing a written document that's done ahead of time but not a new power that's being created for the town manager it's just a documentation of things ahead of time so that everyone across the organization and the public can have the same expectation until and unless that's amended and there may be things that come up that require I would still think the manager has Authority uh on the areas that are delegated and written down I think best practice would be follow those delegations right but there may come out areas that aren't specifically addressed that the manager this manager future manager any manager would need to address I still in my reading of the code think that the manager has that Authority we hire good great managers here so we want to it's also been the practice that if there's something that comes up that's novel that we're told about it and consulted but I start always from the position that the town manager's Authority Under the code as far as Administration subject to all the rules federal law state law town code is Broad and needs to be Brad in order for the manager to do the manager's job so that's the frame that I'm looking at this from is if if any of that is out of the understanding of the staff team please tell me but that's kind of how I started looking at this whole process Mr Mayor I think that's exactly right I think uh have obviously haven't figured out the perfect way to say it you just described it very well but I think there's more documentations in here rather than more delegations right where where instead of town manager go out and do as you see fit you know we're we're itemizing it right we're documenting what what you the council thinks that would include right and like you said it might not be everything but we're trying to say those predictable parts of uh the Personnel admin Administration the things that we think are likely to come up and that we have opinions on we are setting a policy for each of them and uh we're calling out you know we're itemizing calling out line by line the different things that the town manager's already authorized to do by more General uh is more General Authority as the head of the administrative U Workforce of the town thank you council member more oh Town managers you want to add something then is that okay yeah real quick since I'm being referred to by title a lot I thought I'd chip I thought I'd chime in just real quick and say a a good example of everything that's been said that sums up I think the difference is um there is provision in the handbook for an enumeration of recognized holidays right that stays in the handbook that is clearly a policy decision of councel but things like do we pay you know shift differential at a different rate let's say for instance for people who work holidays or stand by pay for people who might work on holidays that's the sort of day-to-day Administration that probably would I would think would be delegated in terms of the administration that's to me is a distinction between Council driven policy versus administrative clarifications and policies that reflect exactly what I think was just read in the code provision that's how I generally see what's happening here thank you thank you Council M Mo thanks mayor one of the things good things about going last is most everything's already been said so um actually much of the what the mayor said was what I was going to bring up I I quite frequently in the codebook as Duncan knows I mean I have my own code book at home it gets updated all the time so I'm always looking at that and I appreciate the all the work that you've put into this Gina and John and everybody else that's worked on this it's just putting everything in writing it's Clarity to everything that that's that's happening I'm not a a big fan as everybody knows of doing things without having it in writing somewhere that you have the authority to do it so I think you've done an amazing job you put so much work into this it's unbelievable that's all out there in front of all of us to read and if we want to change any of the policies there they are right in front of us to be able to do this just brings way more clarity to it so I couldn't be more supportive than what you've done thank you thank you vice mayor thank you mayor uh and John Gina team thank you I think this is a remarkable effort and long overdue and I've I've two one question and and a comment the question would be Gina based on what we've just gone through and the great efforts that John and the team Andrew and Andrew and the whole team um what is the is the process that you would see that we would do a look back or we would check in at certain points so we don't get so behind thank you vice mayor I appreciate that question and by virtue of this revised structure I I don't foresee as least as long as I'm sitting in this seat that we're in this position again um because of the clear delegation of authority as changes need to be made you know for whatever the circumstance is we are going to be able to amend administrative policies in real time and have them for review and get them implemented um in a timely manner um you know there's a lot of times things going to AFF July 1 fiscal years related to statutory requirements you know those things we're going to know ahead of time and we're going to be able to make those changes a as we go forward so I don't foresee any sort of necessarily annual review of all the administrative policies because they're going to be living documents that we're going to be working with on a daily basis and so they're going to be changed as they need to be changed hopefully um I will be able to coordinate smart changes so that you know we're collecting it all at once and making you know changes um all at the same time rather than um having you know changing a policy over and over again um because then that does get confusing for staff um if we're making policy changes to the same one over and over um but I foresee it as that we change them as we need to ongoing uh much like um in response to the mayor's question about the the couple policies that are outstanding those though I didn't have a specific answer in terms of timeline you know now I'm going to put myself on Front Street and say you know un officially in the next you know by the end of the year I expect all of them to be done um simply because they need to be done and I don't want them to get lost in the rest of the work that we're doing but then once they're done um it does become much more manageable I did a very similar project um at our former employer where we rewrote um we were under collective bargaining so you know we Consolidated two collective bargaining agreements into one and in doing so wrote rewrote the employee handbook and we did over 30 new policies um and so that was you know a big lift as well but but the result was it became so much more easy to manage um from an operational standpoint and so that's that is the value of this document is that it gives the clear delegation of authority from Council so you know exactly as a council what you empowered the town manager to do and then what did we do with that in turn through the administrative policy thank you um and then the comment that I had which that's important Clarity moving forward John thank you for addressing council member pace and council member lebel's thoughts about if we did see something that we wanted to change from this point we could we could do that as a body and I know at the outset of this I had said that I think this effort and this product will create more accountability and responsibility uh there's an awful lot of confidence that we have in our leadership team and our town manager Our Town attorney and we we expect a lot but we also know this is helping them and this is helping the management of the town I do not see this as abdicating I see this as updating and looking forward so I uh applaud your efforts and I thank you for that a y thank you anything else to the point that the vice mayor was was making obviously we anything we're not anticipating any budgetary um impact the the question about the look back you've reviewed all that don't except we're identified expect a a budgetary impact and again this would be true whether um we were operating on the current handbook or this proposed handbook um but I think if if I may for the council I think it's an ongoing expectation I I would believe uh knowing our town manager this would be his process anyway that if anything that is updated is found to create any increase or any budgetary impact that because of a change of policy or anything like that I think especially after implementation it would be helpful for that to be specifically called out for the council in the next cycle so I don't know if that requires Ires a a writer to this or an addendum on the um maybe just as a report uh confirmation of of no budgetary impact or anything that we're seeing because of this just to to B suspenders and I think we all have tremendous confidence but I think that might add to it if I might suggest that based on the dialogue that we've had that if there's something obviously material we'd want to know about it right away but otherwise just a confirmation during budget process maybe from from the HR department that uh that everything's been implemented and we're not seeing anything other than smooth sailing and no no impacts is that something we could work into uh this item perhaps as a I know we may have a little break on as part of the consent agenda maybe that could get added if that if I'm making myself clear I don't and and if there's Council support I don't mean to speak for the whole Council I'm just trying to synthesize some of the questions comments that came up Mr Mayor um if that's something that you would like to see uh what I'm hearing is you want to see that in writing and as part of the formal uh approval I think that's something that we could work into the resolution um the town manager is looking now and and confirming that this is an action item so we do have a little bit of time we as staff have time to to you know propose a maybe some language that we could uh provide to you to maybe uh make a make a on the-fly Amendment and we could approve the resolution as amended with that language added in is is that something the council's interested in again I'm just listening to everybody and trying to I'm seeing head knots so I think it can be something pretty simple um yes and then I think we've all again recognized all the hard work so that I don't think that needs to be a big deal if we can add that in I think that gets us to that A+ on this we're already at an A+ A++ thank you Mr Mayor will uh staff will work on that between now and the time that it if if that's okay or did you want to Workshop language now or is it okay for St to work on that and I'm comfortable with Sugg drafting that I have a tremendous amount of confidence you can put something together like that without us being involved in it okay thank you is that okay with everyone okay wonderful and thank you very much we're all appreciative we know this took a lot of work and we're glad that and thank you for acknowledging that the work actually helped catch some stuff um and that's part of the process right we all you know find things as we're reviewing and re-reviewing so that's it's good to know that it was not just helpful for us but helpful for you all as well thanks for okay next up we have item 24- 217 Double Tree Ranch Road entry Monument update scheduled for 45 minutes and uh I have list our staff contct as our town engineer we have our CIP director Mr Kay so whenever you're ready um good afternoon mayor and council members we will be presenting an update to the Double Tree Ranch entry Monument project I have here and the board the project manager with kle horn who will be leading the presentation thank you thank you thank you Sam good afternoon mayor and Council happy to be here today to present these Concepts to you so generally the project location as you know is at the intersection of Scottdale Road and Double Tree Ranch Road and the focus of this project is looking at both the Northwest and southwest corners um of that intersection as this is one of the entries into the town of Paradise Valley so there are are two components to this project uh one is the screen wall beautification portion and then the other is the monument sign beautification portion uh the project as a whole is consistent with the visually significant Corridor master plan and I'll talk about that a little bit more as we go through the slides uh as I mentioned it does address both the North and South Side of doat Ranch Road and so the the new color and texture of existing walls the perimeter wall there along the uh west side of Scottdale Road will be similar to the wall in front of the Ironwood Golf Villas and we did actually verify what that color is it's called Loa by Sherin Williams so we know how to match so as we move into the screen wall Concepts I'll just kind of set the stage for the next few slides we have four Alternatives each alternative is going to have three slides um representing the different aspects of the concept so this first one is more of an overview to help give you a sense of what this concept will look like as you're Crossing Scottdale Road onto Double Tree Ranch Road um and into the town on the right of the screen you can see where our inspiration came from uh this is the existing utility screen wall on 56th Street uh so the stack stone of that element the corten steel the mountain pattern uh those are all a basis and inspiration ideas for for this concept uh we have a photo there of the Ironwood Golf Villas as I mentioned that will be a consistent element in all of the concepts and then the uh town of Paradise Valley ENT Monument um how those all of those elements tie together so we've got the Rusted seal you have the warm tones of the stone or the angular Rock of the gabian basket the next slide we're focusing on the northwest corner if I could just point a few things out on the layout itself the plan view uh so we did meet with all of the existing utility companies so that would be APS and city of Scottdale to better understand their requirements what they needed for Access and so the layout of the gate provides both gate access along the South um or the north side of double she Ranch Road and then also off of Scottdale Road One will be a sliding gate one will be a swing gate and both city of Scottdale and APS are are fine with these two access points uh and the south at the bottom of the screen you can see an elevation of what this concept will look like uh it's intended to be a modular pattern so a little bit easier for fabrication uh as I mentioned we have the stacked stone colums and keeping with 56 Street um and then we are repeating the element on the southwest corner but before I move to that slide I'll just point out where we have the gates both swing and and slide Gates uh they will have a locking mechanism so the only um entities that can access will be the town of course sa Scottdale and APS and then we're also adding a no trespassing sign to each of those Concepts and then on the southwest corner we're a little bit um space constrained so it's it's the same concept but without the stack stone but you get that repetition of the mountain pattern panels so you're creating a little bit more of a cohesive uh visual appearance uh when you're entering Double Tree Ranch Road it would be situated in between uh the existing Columns of the perimeter wall um and as I noted that wall will be refinished uh the plan is that I understand it to refinish the uh both sides of the wall along Double Tree Ranch Road a north and south and we'll extend that finish North and South a minimum one lot so we'll go north until there's a bit of a jog in the existing wall and then South where there's a break in the wall so we've got a good good start and finish Point all right so the next concept this is concept B um again we're looking at a mountain pattern but this time we were taking inspiration from the mountain pattern that's included in the town of Paradise Valley Street signage uh we're also pulling from elements that are included in the visually significant corridors master plan so again that cense steel providing screening providing shade and then the um the consistent elements of the Ironwood Golf Villas in the town of Paradise Valley um entry Monument sign just showing you how all of those elements tie together to get a little bit of a closer look we'll look first look at the northwest corner um in lie of the stackstone columns this would just be a simple 6in Square metal post um painted to match the mountain aesthetic um some kind of you know close to C 10 steel color again we have the sliding gate we have the swing gate we have the no trespassing we have the Locking mechanisms and then moving on to the southwest corner uh there it's just a repetition of what we're showing on the northwest corner but we're utilizing just three panels to do the space available our third concept this is concept c um on the right you'll see once again the elements from the visually significant quarters master plan that we're pulling from we've got that corten steel we've got the screening um in this case we're looking at gaban baskets utilizing those as columns or or pillars um as a new element that helps tie back to the town of Paradise Valley entry monuments um no decorative Mountain pattern um on the panels themselves this is sort of highlighting the C the gaban Bas get columns and then just utilizing a clean perforated panel for the screen wall itself and here you can see the northwest corner all of the same Safety and Security elements in each column each concept rather and the southwest corner utilizing three of those same panels and then we do have a fourth concept um this would not be modular or uh repetitive so a little bit um a little bit more on the fabrication side but we're looking at two different Mountain patterns we've got Camelbeach mountain and we also have M mummy mountain and in Li of of doing a repeated pth pattern we looked at applying that over a series of pan panels so each one would be unique but when you're you know standing some some distance away you can see the full silhouette of each Mountain this is the northwest corner this would be mummy Mountain using the perforated panel in this concept A simple 6in Square metal post and then the southwest corner this is Camel Back Mountain again each one unique but overall you get the silhouette of the Camel Back Mountain I can stop there for any screen wall questions or comments or I can continue on and we can look at the median improvements any preference I'm okay going through the whole presentation I don't think we've looked at this several times so I think having everything together might help if that's okay with the council yeah thank you mayor all right so this is the monument sign concept um we did hear your feedback on on things to improve on this um but we are still looking at relocating the entry Monument sign to a median um overall we are still maintaining and providing full driveway access to the North and South parcels you'll note the additional driveways or relocated driveways so that we're um including all of that access we're maintaining existing eastbound left turn storage links and maintaining two Eastbound through Lanes um some of the materials we're proposing surface select Boulders a Madison gold decomposed Granite uh the plant pallet here these are all drought tolerant low water use plants and again these are all plants that are also found in the visually significant corridor's master plan all right the next one uh has to do with construction estimate and budget so in total the monument sign beautification portion of it is 193,000 the screen wall beautification portion 286,000 for a total of 479,000 uh so each of those amounts does include all of the planting all of the irrigation uh for the monument sign beautification it's the median work it's the the new driveways um the relocation of the entry Monument screen wall it's all of the materials installed so just trying to capture a complete picture there for cost and then lastly this is a breakdown of each of the con Concepts a a through D um elevation B is on the lowest end I believe that was the uh Mountain pattern from the town of Paradise Valley street signs and then on the high end is the U mummy mountain and the Camelback Mountain that is expressed over the full length of screen wall and again the reason for that increase in cost all of the other concepts are modular so we have one pattern a fabricator can then just Rec create over and over as many panels as we need in this case each of those would be unique so there's a little bit more cost there okay any questions I had a question and then I'll get to the council just in terms of the scope which you mentioned um just for the sake of uh I think the council's familiar with it the public may not be familiar um you talked about the extent of the wall resurfacing could you pull up the slide it's several hundred linear feet that we're talking about I don't know if you have a a measurement at this point but if you could show exactly what we're talking about because the photos appropriately show the the the corner where the entry would be but the discussion's been focused on improving the aesthetic of the entry which would include the walls spanning as you said to the turn and also the brake do you have a slide where you can show us not but if we had an aial or okay I don't mean to hold up the questions or anything else um I just think it's helpful that we're as we're looking at the cost that we're mindful of of the full scope of the project take okay all right uh the other the other question would be given the scope the past discussion has been about Landscaping improving the Landscaping I know that we've talked many times the council has in the past about using that U the resurfacing of the Ironwood Villas but there's also been discussion about softening up the wall with Landscaping along Scottdale road is that also included in what you're talking about in part of the program here I it is includ Ed and I apologize I did skip over that bullet for myself so when I go back to the entry Monument rendering I can show you where we're proposing um landscape right now if there's additional space available um it's within town rideway we certainly apply um some additional landscape there but verbally I can say obviously we're applying landscape to the median and then where the existing wall is on double CH Ranch Road North and South sides and then on the chamfer where we have room and where we wouldn't be um conflicting with access we have those two gates then we are proposing landscape there so as you're pulling that up and maybe you can zoom in the the scope we're talking about is what we've seen more clearly Illustrated with the the design elements and the new median that's being proposed and then resurfacing the wall as you're going to show us and some some drought tolerant Landscaping in front of that wall as well correct correct okay um and I should note that both the corners the chamford corners are located in a site visibility triangle so they'll be they'll need to adhere to that requirement lower stuff yeah I I'm having a hard time seeing that can you zoom in zoom in maybe and show us the extent of the wall resurfacing all the that's includ so here you can see not on the property line itself but maybe let me zoom in a little bit closer okay there we go and I just went too far there we go um so you can see where this jog is there's a little bit of a setback on the perimeter wall so this would be the northern limit and then we would resurface both sides including this Jog and then over to this Terminus here and then on the south side we'll pick up at this end both sides of the wall and continue down the full length of this lot and then there is an opening I zoom out a little bit I think I passed it yeah somewhere in the middle generally right there that's correct so that would all be resurfaced repainted yes landscape on the front side the front facing side landscape we were not proposing landscape directly adjacent to Scottdale Road at this time is that to Valley right away it's not um so if I may go back to here we go go back to here um if you can see where to zoom in here we go so you can see in green where we're proposing landscape on the North side and then again the chamfer where we have space available and then up to the edge of this wall here there's also a a setback a little jog in the wall before um those are my questions and I'll reserve on other comments and let the council ask questions I would just and I'm grateful that you're here from kimley horn to present this there has been substantial discussion about Landscaping all along where it's resurfaced so I think it benefits um you know to to review those things ahead of time so that when there there's been some frustration from the and I'm not putting this specifically on kimley horn I I think it's fair to say from the Council on the amount of time that it's taken uh to get this to this point and having all the comments Incorporated I think helps it certainly has been my expectation and and by the way when I'm talking about Landscaping you know it's I do it all the time I think many of us do we're talking about maybe running a a poly drip line and some plants all the whole thing if if it were me doing it you know you're talking the thousands of dollars not not even necessarily in the tens of thousands of dollars uh to do that and just freshen up that and soften the wall and that's been part of the objective is to for me anyway speaking for myself but I think it's consistent with the council what we've heard from the public and also the council's direction as you're driving into town you want to see an entry point that looks like Paradise Valley and not like a neglected um subdivision wall and so having having everything freshened up in the area that's and again not looking to spend a lot of money on that but just some strategic it could even be strategic plantings of things but that had been my expectation when this came back to us that we'd be seeing the entire package ready to be actionable and ready to get to the next step I do think um since you're here I'll share directly the feedback that uh we do get involved in in we don't we don't have a lot of Public Works projects here the ones that we do we like to do at the highest level I've seen that from this Council from the very day I started on the council and so it's that attention to detail if you look at I'm very proud to say recently that two streets in the town it was reported were recognized as the top 25 Street aspirational streets in the in the country and so we like to keep it at that at that level but my more immediate concern is making sure that that with our consultant and staff team that we're actually hitting all the points and if there's a question I think it helps us to have the option on the table and looked at that we can always eliminate rather than having to come back again and look at something I hope this is one if there's agreement from the council that to put some Landscaping there it's not something that we have to come back and do but it it and also I would say with the project Scope when we're talking about spending a sixf fig spend of public money money it I think it always helps to show the extent and the scope of the spend in the presentation so that we can show the public this is exactly what we're talking about doing we understand it uh but there are members of the public who pay attention to what we're doing and I think just having that Clarity of the full scope um puts everyone on the same page and and helps increase transparency and and furthers our dialogue uh as a group but that was my question my initial feedback will yield to the Council for questions council member Thomas thank you mayor uh Mr Bard good to have you with us thank you um as a general note I think it's helpful Sam and staff for what it's worth when we have the person who's going to do the actual designing it's great to have you here with us now I wish you'd been with here with us earlier perhaps that's a process Improvement change um going back initially to the scope the scope of the project and maybe this is a fault on my part or our part was a two-prong Scopes green wall beautification and Monument sign beautification I think in my mind or in my dream I was looking at an overall integrated design for the Double Tree entrance and I don't think we're there yet so a couple questions for you and maybe go up to a picture that shows both so if we look at the North side and the south side the two of them don't look like they fit together now there are a lot of reasons probably for that there's a lot of reasons that they can't look exactly the same they don't have to match but one of my questions is what consideration did you give to lowering the Wall height on the North side the wall that is parallel with Scottdale the two walls that run parallel along Double Tree don't end at the same point what what thought was given to those existing walls so that's question one a related question is the columns I think at the Ironwood Villa's columns and entrance and I I think our suggestion was that was an inspiration an idea I don't know that we we were asking for a slavish copy but if I looked at those columns I think the columns are at the same height as the wall so was there thought given to bring bringing those columns down so I'll just pause there with those two questions um as far as the existing wall goes we did look at some modification to the wall um perhaps not the last time this it came before Council but perhaps the time before that there was looking at perhaps removing the wall um and I don't know maybe that was a cost issue but um the direction that that I believe I understood from Council and staff was this the refinishing of the existing wall um if there's more that we need to to look at to create a better unified um you know appearance to the to the entry then absolutely we can yes okay so to clarify your sense was you didn't get direction it was to refinish the existing walls didn't have direction to rethink the walls height length or whatever not not per se as as I mentioned we did look at removing if we wanted to make make uh the northwest corner a little bit more open and then at some point we stepped away from that that uh option but we can certainly look at doing additional modifications to the wall to get it a little more cohesive symmetrical things like that okay that that's helpful to me um my other questions had to do with landscape in and mayor I think your questions addressed that because it it doesn't look finished or complete yet I can't picture what a new beautiful entrance would look like without the Landscaping the other question that I had to do that I had I think you've addressed which is the transition so the mayor's question to the scope how far north and how far south you answered that and I'm assuming with the transition um the level of detail so on the North North Side it goes up Scottdale Road and then it tips back a little bit and heads East so I'm assuming and that uh that detail will be shown to us at some point so the transition to the adjoining wall will look like it's meant to be there and look to look to be graceful yes we can certainly provide that okay and then on the South Side the transition will essentially be the gap or break in the wall so quote our wall will end and their wall will start recognizing I understand it's not our wall but it's the one that we're changing correct okay that was the let me ask you one budget question if you could go to the budget page um yeah and it's it's just a uh a numbers question the the numbers don't add up so if we go back to the two components page before the 193 plus the 286 the total of the project is 279 yet when we look at project budget we add construction design and Engineering that adds to 530 so what's the difference between the two so the the the the total that we show the 479 um is the total or construction so if you need to compare it to the numbers below you need to compare it to the construction uh budget of 440 can you speak up a little bit yeah thank you I can never hear you all right the construction budget is [Music] $440,000 and that need to be compared to the construction cost uh up uh that is $479,000 these are the two when you compare Apple to Apple these are the two numbers you need to compare okay so if I understand the monument screen beautification those two do not include the design and Engineering that is correct the the the top uh row does not include the design and Engineering is it is strictly construction cost thank you my eror because you're right it says project construction cost so thank you for claring clarifying that for me um mayor that's all I have at this point thank you thank you other questions council member more thank you mayor uh I'd like to start off by saying I really appreciate that staff put the council meeting minutes in here so we can just look at what we've said several months ago so we can continue to finally hopefully come to a conclusion on this thing instead of having a study session every few months on it so in that council meeting minutes it says that we should develop design options for the screen wall medium Island landscaping that are more consistent with the visually significant quor plan and other existing desert pallet examples in towns such as 56 Street between linol and McDonald so it looks like that you've tried to touch on some of that but I don't see where it's really consistent and what what I would like to see and my support would be defying consistency in the things that we've done in the past and find ways to continue to implement that as we're doing uh uh improvements going forward so when we look at the different designs that are presented to us today the 56 Street design has much less iron uh incorporated into that design than what we have here so if you were to look at and if we look at wall elevation a overview um that is 56 Street design right there those two top ones the one below it that says Ironwood Villas that's the wall design but if we're looking at the chamfer there where where we're talking about doing the the the additional wall it shows the option a panel but it doesn't it at 56 Street it isn't iron panels everywhere it's it's a combination of the buff colored panel along with an iron colored panel which I think actually looks more uh higher end more there we go nicer than all of this iron that's out front I think that's just way too much iron that we're looking at so um and we and and Council remember uh Thomas said I'm glad you brought that up we did talk about lowering the wall I've mentioned it every single time we've had a meeting about lowering the wall and we still have no feedback on on that whether it happens or not I mean I'm just trying to move forward with what we have but um just a quick question the the wall itself that would be in front of the North and South site I can't blow it up large enough to read how tall that wall is there's one measurement there is that 8' N9 in is that what that says 5' 6 in 5' 6 in yes may not no so that wall the the the angled walls will be about the 5 foot6 is to the iron and there's a cap on it call it a six foot wall is what we're looking at yes the addition of the new screen wall portion over would be about five 5' 6 in okay the columns themselves or the posts um would be a few inches taller of course there is some variability if there if there was a preference for a certain height it wouldn't um you know up to six feet or or you know I think the Height's fine that you have it um because we're looking at it to scale and I think that looks good I don't think we'd want it any lower but my suggestion would be in in hopefully moving forward to a solution and we get a council consensus is if we were to look at this wall on the North side that the the iron panels for a which match which saw in 56 Street which is what we've been doing um is and staying consistent is that the iron there remains between the two Center columns and then the two outer pieces uh would be more of that perforated buff colored iron I I'm not in favor of solid because I think it's important that we are able to see behind this for sepb and other reasons that people don't get behind there and start camping in or some something like that so I like the the the functionality of the perforated it's not needed on 56th street because there's it's not enclosed so um I think that would look good so the color would match what we've discussed on the wall the the darker color would match what we've already been doing on 56 Street in other places the stone itself would match what we've already been doing in other places like 56th Street so I think if if we were to have a hybrid of that that would be something I could support the other ones are it's they're nice but they're not consistent with anything we have in town so I don't know why we want to start doing something different at every location I think it to me cooh cohesiveness around town looks better just like we've done with our Monument signs that say Paradise Valley they're all the same they're the same Rock they're the same color they're the same height so um I think that looks nice I'm with the mayor on this we've talked about it in the past about uh enhancing that wall North on Scottdale Road and South and and just to go refinish a wall and then leave it with bare no Landscaping at all would not be very attractive so and and the the wall that is in front of Ironwood Villas is the the Landscaping there is not extensive it's pretty simple it's just some Greenery that softens that Hardscape and looks really nice so I would be in support of that as well so is that clear what where I'm my position is on a final design for this wall itself yes it is thank you so um and then looking at the South Side there's three panels there I would say the center panel would be the Brown Mountain Iron one same as 56 Street the two side ones would be the buff perforated panels anyways that's what I support and if Council has other direction or suggestions I'm open to that as well thank you while we're waiting I can give my feedback and then others can jump in I'm fine we're at a point and I'm grateful you're here we've been talking about this a long time the feedback I've overwhelmingly heard just for the council's benefit but also to get it off my chest you know it's been several years looking at this um I like a lot of what's here a lot of it's responsive and I don't mean to sound critical but I do need to point out the things that I think we need to that I've heard from the council that we need to cover to bring this to a conclusion and obviously want to hear from the whole Council on this but I'm and maybe people's minds have changed and that'll be good to know but I I not sure that'll be the case going back a number of years we looked at redoing this road uh before I was mayor there was money spent so I'm going to start with where how I saw this project we've had in the general plan for many many over a decade the importance of entry points to our town this is there and and I fully support by the way for the record looking at other entry points that need attention but as far as major entry points to the town that are neglected this is the worst one uh it's got the utility boxes the wall is very Antiquated and fully understand that those are in Scottdale so kudos to this town manager the prior Town manager for having those discussions with Scottdale so that we have their blessing to make changes in many years ago when we were looking at redoing the road there was money spent on a design didn't go anywhere but one of the takeaways was that the there was consistency in that neighborhood that they would like to see an improved entry experience uh for a variety of reasons improving property values improving the image of the Town consistency with the general plan I think the median is a great thing because it signals like we're going to look at later entry into a residential area and traffic calming gets people to slow down a little bit when they enter our town which is great so the I think the median is great as it is it looks fine no questions or concerns there but in terms of the other portion uh of the project I think we need to lock in you know the whole taking bites at this over as the council member Mo said over a period of multi multi-week gaps is not the way for us to get things done we need to see you know we as you've seen hopefully been here and seen the presentation when we get more information we're very good at distilling it down to what we need when we don't have enough information and then we wait for months to get it back again and then come back it just builds a level of frustration and a disconnect um I'm open on design options I absolutely hear what council member Thomasson is saying um I don't know that there's personally that there's that much more uh to do with the wall right now specifically because it's Scottdale I'm anticipating push back I may hear that I don't want to hear about it's Scottsdale's wall or there's a private property owner on the Southside all also impinging on the town owned lot we can leave that as it is I've taken the position all along that improving that wall improves the value of the town-owned property substantially and that whole neighborhood um but we made a commitment I made a commitment many years ago to the part that was consensus supported by everyone in that neighborhood and the council which was put in a meting and improve the entry point I remember that was almost 10 years ago but I remember that I want to be able to say promise made promise kept but if this keeps taking two months at a time I'll be off the council so I want to see this done I want to see us get it done with the council support um and I think we've got some we're almost there but the parts that need to be finished and also by the way I really like this where we've landed with the screen wall because we have those utility boxes it eliminates a part where uh people have complained that they've seen people standing that that are are maybe loitering there and I don't question the legality of of it but it just I would think and I want to pull Chief into it but it probably makes it safer to have no trespassing and and also keeping people away from Transformers and things like that is generally I think a good idea so that part's good but just seeing the whole project laid out I can support council member Moore's design standard uh or ideas about this I I could also support a more cohesive design if that can happen quickly I just don't want to keep spinning our wheels on this I feel like we're losing momentum I think this is going to be a high impact this is one of those projects where once it's done if it gets done we'll have a high impact and the feedback I've gotten from residents overwhelmingly maybe with one exception has been that they want to see this improved and in fact many of them said make it look like gainy Ranch across the street I know we can't do that given the constraints but I think we can do better than what we have here including with the Landscaping um the last thing I'll say is as far as the the paint color keeping the buff I'm really appreciative that you figured out the paint color that Ironwood vill has used that was as as has been stated I think by council member Thompson that was more of a please look at this as a starting point if and I don't mean to get too granular but I I absolutely want this to continue a pace if that if I had my way if this were my project alone and sitting here with you as a as a developer I'd say we need to get this done tomorrow I understand that that color from Ironwood Villas may not match up well with the buff color that's there that's not a concern to me I wasn't looking to duplicate that I suggested that because when we were told originally this what do we do with this wall the answer is well look at what someone already did that looks good that we all agree looks good we could obviously do other things with it but you know the time Gap is is killing us so that that wall I think is good enough for me or some variant of it the smooth finish was the main thing a natural desert color if it doesn't pair up well with the buff then someone who's a lot smarter about design than I am can figure out a few options in the same you know do the designer thing in the same color family and say Here's three options that are a hue that will play nicely with the color that you already use I'm fine with that just to simplify the process I don't think we're looking to micromanage the whole thing I think there's we're glad you're here because in the last meeting there's a level of frustration that it's taking a long time to get our policy Direction implemented into actionable design where we can say yes please go do this and we've coalesced around this for a long time but it doesn't seem like when the rubber hits the road we get the design back that that we're looking for these ideas are great I would have liked to seen them a year ago and I'm not putting that all on kimley horn but again I would I would encourage as a policy maker that if we're getting work product back that we're shown the whole uh project scope in a slide so that we know where the money's going because if I'm a citizen and I tune into this and I see you're putting a few rod iron panels and doing something to the corner and I don't understand that you're actually resurfacing several hundred feet of of wall along with that and doing the landscaping and building the median I start scratching my head and it it doesn't help uh our process so that would be my more specific feedback what I'd like to ask the council is if everyone's comfortable my ask to my colleagues would be with the summer if we didn't have a summer break maybe a different story but we've got a summer break until September hopefully we can come out of this session with enough direction that we can and ask our staff like what the next step is to actually get this done or at least keep it moving in a positive direction where we can say we've got a plan this is what we're waiting on in September and then get it done in September but that would be my goal coming out of this is how do we not delay this any further we've endorsed this multiple times in our CIP I know there's I don't mean to suggest that everyone's done it there's I know there's been one or two maybe that uh in the past and maybe they've come people can come around when they see things they but there's been consensus Council consensus to move this project forward through the CIP process for a number of years since before this manager and I for something this that should be simple I think it's taking an awful long time time so that's my I Echo what what my peers have said as far as and if we're missing something that you need I want to hear from you as a person working on the project I always ask this of people who are doing a job if you don't have what you need tell us and we'll get it to you right now as best we can but let's get it going right we've been talking about this for a long time and it's a lot of resources to talk about something that shouldn't be this complicated a yield anyone else council member LEL thank you and thank you for being here I appreciate it um I agree with all of my um fellow council members everything they said to me I think I'm I'm pretty much in agreement with if I um as the mayor said if this was my project tomorrow I'd go with a darker color on the wall because it's going to get filthy and um more aesthetically pleasing like desert um uh colors uh I would even out that wall as council member Thomasson said I'm don't think we need the columns just make it a more uh Adobe style look this is just me this is just ideas that I my initial thought would is was going to look a little bit more like across the street like desert I I mean like gy Ranch the stack stone I could support because I think it does match the gainy ranch what's across the street um so elevation a is what I would be going more with uh Desert Landscaping Sage desert mirold red yaka all along the areas of the walls consistently the whole way up up um and to uh council member Moore's point that uh Camelback Design Graphic on the uh um the same one that's at 56th Street I could support that too as far as the um perforate I'm not a fan of it but if it needs to be there for any kind of safety reasons I I don't hate it um but I think that initially my thought was this was going to be woohoo like a big guinea Ranch thing and understand our budget constraints might not be that but something that modernizes it um and I know that the direction on the Ironwood golf will Villa's wall was just that it was sort of like a throwout like hey how about something like this but if I were doing you know in I hate to say it but in and sometimes in real estate circles when it we do a quick flip on a home that's just for a quick basically we call it lipstick on a pig and not saying that's a but that's that's just a term that I feel like the wall could use it's it's there it's saves cost but smooth it out make it consistent on height on both sides um so thank you all for your suggestions there and IAL council member Andy uh thank you mayor um just for clarification and town manager Ching might have to answer these questions um the the only um portion of this beautification that the town owns is the median and the monument sign part portion the wall everything else is own by the city of Scottdale council member Andy I believe that's correct I think the wall uh I can't remember whether or not it actually straddles the town and the City of Scottsdale or it's wholly within but I'm pretty sure that the areas that face out on the wall are within the city of Scottdale it's correct and have we asked the city of Scottsdale if they're interested in sharing the cost when we had our preliminary meeting uh we didn't talk about cost breakdown we said that this is something that we wanted to see happen so whether or not they had to go through a process that would then go back to their Council and ask whether or not they wanted to share the cost my understanding was because of the things that have already been said that we didn't want to wait on that sort of decision and we would go ahead and and move forward there's nothing that precludes us from making the ask yeah I would certainly ask the question I mean it doesn't hurt um and I've been pretty consistent with my support on the median and the entry sign but um if it's city of Scottdale owned um I think we should have some sort of uh combination with them um if we're going to spend a half million dollars on a on a entry entryway um that's a lot of money and I I don't know if we have a drainage project that could use that kind of money so um uh I've like I said I think it's the northwest corner property is what we own the town owns and then um um I would definitely be interested in what the city of Scottdale has to say of about sharing in the cost so um I I didn't know that this and was would be this amount of money so um with that I yield thank you council member Pace you still with us still there sorry I only asked because I I you must have politely had yourself on mute which I appreciate I couldn't we haven't heard anything from from the speaker so please don't take that the wrong way I just wasn't sure if you were no no online still it is 1:30 in the morning no it's okay it's 1:30 in the morning in France but I'm good I'm good with that question um yes I'm still there I I listen to all my everyone's comments um I think we're getting closer as well I liked design a I do like having you know some landscape material um I think some of the points made are good with what we can do I agree we don't want to keep delaying this forever but if you know if it can be looked at and hear the comments and maybe and I'm happy to do a you know I'm I think we all I'll speak for myself I'm happy to have a summer meeting anytime on this project so we can get it moved along I'd rather do it right than rush it just because it's been so delayed um I do like asking Scott sale to pay for part of it I didn't know we hadn't done that so that's new info to me tonight um I do think you know that is on their property and it's right at the corner for them and that's an that's an entry point for Scottdale too from their side I mean that is their property um and it does look pretty bad and I agree with the mayor it's been neglected for a long time in the way it looks even though it's not PV property but I do think that would help if they pay it again um they should and that would help us use money for other projects we've got don't know where we sit on our our list of CIP projects and during each projects we are coming to monsoon season so it might be good to be looking at that I wouldn't want to keep priorities on these projects without also on a parallel track working on drainage projects that actually impact some of the residential neighborhoods because the monsoons are going to start hitting and that's going to be a reaction residents are going to have to us is what are we doing on that and not just Aesthetics and how do we fix that part for them so I'd like to just look at the things before we go a whole summer with not trying to get some of those focused on even though we're going to work on the the Mocking Bird one um but no I I liked a I think the points made though about tying things in is great if there's things that can be done um and I'm happy to meet with summer and I thank you for I mayor on that and we'll see how long I last so keep I'll keep hanging in there thanks thanks for hanging in there um if I may vice mayor just one quick thing on that I would suggest I I understand that just a comment on the question about sharing with Scott still I want to appreciate my express my appreciation to the city of Scottsdale for their willingness to let us design this project and do this project without constraint my only concern about that is further delay and if the shoe were on the other foot I think there may be a request to see and have some participation if they're being asked to pay for it I think that's a tradeoff that I'm willing to make that we retain currently we have design control within reason and they've taken which again I ex I'm extremely appreciative of it that this body our town because it's an entryway for us can have the final say so in what it looks like my concern would be that for a cost split that they may or may not be willing to do that we bring other people into the conversation that may have different ideas about what this should look like and whether the entire should be done if we're going to do one part so for me at least I while I appreciate the the idea about a cost saving I think that that approach would interject um could actually result in higher cost but if not that at least delay and confusion um and I think we're in a good spot I I don't want to go backwards with the work that that the staff has done and it is a good question but I think we have given Direction so far to get permission to do it and not to get a cost split I don't think this is a project where the money's enough at stake on just the wall portion because the median and the sign are a substantial part of this that's in PV we'd be paying 100% of that no matter what my sense and staff can correct me from if this is wrong from the reports we've gotten from the town manager is that Scottsdale's essentially been benevolently agnostic about this of do what you'd like to do here but I think if we start asking for money to do what we'd like to do that can put us in a different space I know it might with me if again the shoe were on the other foot I feel pretty confident with our relationship with Scottdale that what goes around comes around uh so I'm not particularly concerned about that from a cost standpoint I think we have a lot of other cooperation and things that we do and uh so anyway that's my two cents on that vice mayor uh thank you mayor I appreciate that and I appreciate kimley horn being here at the table obviously there's a lot of thoughts that uh we don't want to micromanage but we kind of are in that space now because we just want to get the ball over the finish line and I do think the um keeping our eye on the prize I concur with my colleagues I think the idea of uh some differences in the screening Mak sense because I think to me the way it's playing out now it looks a little bit more like um a construction zone going on behind it than what I think we're trying to achieve for a sense of arrival so I support what council member Moore and council member Thomason had to say um I I do concur with mayor I don't think we should be going back uh to Scottdale I think they've been continue to be great Municipal Partners to us and on many levels so I want to thank them for that but also know that we got to keep our eye on the prize and we're getting closer if we can get this to a point where I'm happy to meet over the summer as well I don't think anybody's opposed to that to help you and your team get us to where we need to be but uh I think we we keep it where we're going uh we don't go back to Scottdale and ask for more I think it opens up a lot of challenges that I don't think will help get this project done and my goal is to help get the project done so that I yield thank you um so if I can summarize so we we get to the next thing I think we've got the median portion locked down I think you've heard the feedback on Project scope design a lot of good ideas uh if it simplifies things I'll say um and this could go to a summer meeting I'm fine with that too you I'm also personally fine my conditions are I trust my colleagues in their design sense my conditions would be uh getting the full scope project scope refinishing Landscaping median the things we've talked about how that turns out I trust the collective wisdom I'm comfortable I'm putting this out there because I'm comfortable stepping out of that as a as an elected official and letting a smaller group consult with the town manager on it if that's what we want to do to to advance the ball or meeting on it I think the main things we've covered and and I know that we can come up with a good design um but I think those are the we'd be talking otherwise about coming back with some new renderings and some of the things you've heard some of the things about the the materials um like I said I think that could either be in a meeting it could be with uh if there's an interested smaller group that wants to be a sounding board for that I would give my proxy to anybody who wants to do that in the in the interest of expediency um and go along with whatever a a small group would want to do but those are some ideas to try to keep this moving and I don't know if there's feed if you had questions or if there's feedback from the council council member Thompson two things if if we do end up with a working group I would love to be on it I have passion for this secondly are we going to direct kimley horm to consider a redesign of the wall to council member Moore's point and my my point considering low lowering a wall or shortening it or are we done with the wall and we're going to move forward with the existing wall that's a good question what I've I've heard too that would have have brought that you and coun M more that brought that up in different um spaces I think so far the consensus has been to move and I heard council member leel offer some suggestions about maybe a haircut on certain points I'd kind of defer to the consultant I can't get there I would be open to that I can't get there right now because of the delay and the part of the reason from my perspective is we're not going we're not looking to go from good to great on this we're looking to go from really poor to hopefully great if not close to perfect but there are other constraints I think because of the utilities and things like that that don't make me as as I'm just I'm just worried until we get to you know that if we start looking at that we're going to be another year into this to be candidate about it council member more thanks Mar just for Council consensus I'm I'm fine leaving the wall where it's at at the Wall height the existing wall because the new wall that's going in front of it is 6 foot tall so scale-wise I think it looks fine the way it is it was what I was trying to discuss earlier on before we came to council's consensus and uh which is in our meeting minutes here that were approved by the council um was a totally different kind of design so with what we're looking at here I'm okay with that and Clarity wise on the wall color um I'm fine with whatever color of the council de decision is um I think that what I was my my point when I said buff was that that it was the wall color not not the color buff but the whatever the wall color is the perforated panel would be that same color then the iron with the with the camel back in it would be the bronze or whatever color that is that matches what we already have at 56 street so same what I was saying as like in 56 Street the wall is one color and the iron with the camel back in it is another color whatever the I think the iron color is easy but I think the wall color could be if it's not the same as Ironwood Villas then I I don't care I think I think that color would work fine with this color but whatever color you decide I don't I don't have a real strong preference on that same here and and to to the the other point thank you for that part of the reason why for me at least looking at the doing something the wall it adds cost but also I don't want to get it down the rabbit I want to be respectful of comments that were made about the town-owned parcel and that some people had very strong feelings about that about maybe selling it in the future so keeping a tall wall there in its current location I think doesn't take us back down that path so that's another reason for me not to look at that if there had been strong Council consensus to keep that for the foreseeable future I think that's an easier conversation to have about Lo the conversation originally was lowering the front wall and putting another wall further back but given the dialogue that's happened I think that just takes us into a space of of disagreement among the council and I think it takes us away from the broader goal that I'm hearing more or less consensus on which is let's make this look a lot nicer for the people in that neighborhood and for the whole town The Prestige of the town so unless did you have something yeah yeah please sorry thanks mayor so I'm just asking for a little clarification on on Council council member thomason's point to the wall shortening were you talking about like just for the Symmetry on each side or to bring it down so that they they match or all the way along the whole Corridor am I I'm just trying to understand what we were my my suggestion and my concern is a higher level one the higher level concern is did we look at the entire entrance experience and think about the walls from a holistic perspective rather than take the walls we have and make them look prettier and so whether one's higher or one's lower or how far back they wrap okay I don't know the answer to that I'm not a designer right in my mind there was an opportunity to take a holistic look at that entrance and make it more elegant with a professional cohesive design look okay what I'm hearing reported is that we are already going to improve it to a significant degree we don't want to add cost we don't want to add time so we're going to I will not use the previously used analogy we will use what we have and make it look much better that's what I heard but that was my that was my original position on why I want to revisit the walls okay so I'm just asking for clarification it sounds to me more now like we're all I feel like we're all in agreement we just want a more more symmetric consistent elegant look coming in whether that's you know symmetry to me as part of be beautification right so hopefully that would be my input yeah I heard the mayor say we're not going to revisit the walls we're going to make them look better and we're going to be happy with that that's what I heard okay well with with the caveat if I may because I want to be respectful of your comment too council member Thompson I agree with you so going taking a step back I think you're reminding us of something important which is and thanks to council member more in the whole collaboration here when I look at our minutes the the minutes said developed a concept design depicting a cohesive plan for both the North and South Side of Double Tree Ranch we haven't seen that we haven't seen that so and showing a landscape plan for so if that's what council member Thomasson is asking for that I support 100% because I think what you're asking for and I think we've all been asking for if I may and correct me if this is wrong it costs the same amount of money to have a wow factor cohesive design as it does something that's put together in bits and pieces so that's been in our this is from February 8th and this is why you're hearing frustration from this Council on February 8th that's a bullet point that our St St put together we I didn't write that no one on the council wrote that developed a concept design depicting a cohesive plan for both the North and South Side of Double Tree Ranch Road and showing a landscape plan for the full length of the entry from the intersection West the concept design should include wall treatments and paint on both the North and South sides of the street in the scottd RightWay the council favored a texture color similar to the wall uh which you got that part on Ironwood golf fills uh Etc so that's to council member thomasson's point that I support I I may have misunderstood that we were revisiting whether to lower the wall in a portion or not all that's that and that's where goes to the professionals to kimley Horn and our staff if you have a wow factor plan where you say hey we've done something like this before we can do this incorporating the panels uh similar design aesthetic on the panels the monument entry that's what we asked for in February is to look at something cohesive like that we haven't seen it yet but that's what we were hoping to get speaking for myself I was hoping to get that in March um but here we are in June and um so that's if I may if is that what you were looking for as well that's exactly okay I'm sorry I misunderstood I thought we were going back to a conversation about lowering the wall or not lowering the wall yeah and to council member lebel's point I'm not qualified to say whether a wall gets lowered or not and buy how much and how it works but I'm concurring that we don't have a concept design with a cohesive plan and I think in order I think in order to give our staff and consultant the freedom to do that we have to say it's okay to consider a change in the wall that's the point I was pushing on and you know the seven seven smart people six plus me wherever we end up is going to be fine I just wanted to be clear about the scope that we're sending them back with right fair enough and are we all in agreement too that and I've heard bits and pieces of this that we're asking the professionals to use their judgment that if it's extensive enough of a change that the city of scotton may say hey we don't want this that we don't go into that space absolutely and that's that was my instinct for saying let's try to work with what we have because we don't want to tempt fate the we get into a problem where we say oh we'd like to change this and then the answers will maybe not and it's the same concern with the also good suggestion of what about a cost split it's let's keep this this ball rolling forward um so from the staff consultant perspective are we what are we looking at as far as a timeline what would be helpful to you is are are we on the same page do you want to share with us your thoughts on this we're to feedback too we're not just trying to have a one-way conversation here thank you thank you mayor um I do believe um first I appreciate uh the feedback uh and welcome that and and so I I do think I understand just needing to provide more of a a master plan approach or a full plan so that you can see the fullest extents of of the improvements um I think what where we're missing the boat a little bit is is just sticking with this concept level a little too much and really we need to be almost Beyond concept now a little bit more into full plan so my apologies for that but I I hear the comments about um concept a um providing you know the the buff perforation um so I I do think I have a good handle on on the concept to move forward with and we just need to develop something else that can show you the full extents okay and what kind of timeline do you think is reasonable for that a week okay that's great um and how does the council and any guidance from the town manager on what would be helpful to you as far as I mean certainly we can schedule a meeting like I said I'm I know council member Thomson has has volunteered um I'm comfortable having a working group advisory to the town manager to help Advance this over the summer and get some Concepts back if that makes sense to people I don't want to impose that on anybody but if if that's something that people want to do and it would lower everyone's time commitment and have it come back with the anticipation that something would come back in in the fall that's vetted by that group I I don't it doesn't matter to me does anyone have a preference council member more you have or vice mayor I would be find scheding a meeting soon as a group The working group is good but I think there's communication we need tool okay all right so meeting yeah as soon as this is ready please if it takes you two weeks to get it really ready and address the points that's fine um hopefully not more than that but um I think we've got and have some color choices I think that was asked for for the wall um some design choices some landscape the things that were asked for in February plus what you've heard today I think would be really helpful and hope hopefully get us to the next phase of saying please go do this um last time as you probably heard I think one of the reasons you he there's a bit of a crisis of confidence in what we're paying for and what we're getting from this relationship and I'll speak for myself on that I had questions about that serious questions because you know this is public money we're talking about and we need to use it wisely and I think if I'm hearing that it takes a week to get it back now that's music to my ears because it's been taking three four months to get incomplete uh pieces and with respect I I understand difference between concept and Engineering this is all conceptual to me I mean this is stuff that that someone can put together in front of a computer in 2 hours to take pictures and show what the wall looks like mopped up we've given the examples that's why we gave the example of the Ironwood Villas is to have a starting point so that it's not a guessing game of what we like but a starting point and I think we're mostly there but I I think we'd really like to get this to the next step so that would be great and we'll we'll be at the ready to try to schedule something I'm assuming we can do that by Zoom um just as a study session or could even be an action if if that's that's appropriate um leave it for you does someone have a council member Pace have a hand up or did you have something I was just I was just going to Echo that I think we just have a meeting um and schedule it when it's convenient and it can be by Zoom or by phone I think we know project pretty well once we get the materials and we just do it all together and call it in the summer as soon as it's ready so we can move it along yes sir thank you Mr Mayor uh on your agenda t night at 6 is a uh motion or a a an action item to cancel your June 27th meeting you have a meeting scheduled it isn't yet cancelled if in fact the consultant says that they can have it back within a week we could keep that meeting have it be just this people can appear whether in person or virtually and we can run through everything that the that the consultant has indicated that they can deliver between now and then to keep the momentum going to your point rather than say for instance if we were to say we have a canvas meeting in in August we could add this as another agenda item in August or we can keep we can continue the cancellation of the June 27th council meeting and have it be a study session on this item those are existing meetings you already have on your C your calendar between now and the September 12th meeting which is also on your calendar okay that's a great suggestion I'm open to that if it works for everybody ready 27 Y is that okay I'll be by Zoom um yes but that's fine or may I may provide feedback I'll be out of town so I may provide feedback uh outside the meeting and if the vice mayor is available or to run the meeting if I can't make it I I don't know if I have plans that night okay anticipating the meeting being canceled but we'll make it work that sounds good one of the things we can obviously do so it would be a single subject study session is we could be flexible on the time it starts as well depending on people's availability on that date okay that's great awesome thank you thank you very much appreciate it um we've got two study session items left that are schedule for 45 minutes each and uh an hour left um but I think that was very helpful I appreciate participation we've got the storm water master plan development check-in and we've got Mockingbird Lane uh scheduled next does the council have a preference on what ordered is there a recommendation from staff on what order depending on who's here I want to be respectful of the people who are guests here the Kinley Horn uh consultants for both presentations are present um we can start one go as long as we need to and then we can continue after the regular meeting um I would think in terms of urgency I think we would definitely want to get as much feedback as possible right now about the Mocking Bird project the uh the drainage uh study is important the check-in was asked by Council sure the work is ongoing that check in could be continued uh Andor a abbreviated presentation could be given tonight okay um your call well let's I thank you for the recommendation I'll I think we'll take your recommendation unless there's any objection do Mockingbird that's fine okay so next we will like to give you an update for the marking bird Lane 56 Street to in Gordon uh roadway improvements uh the update will focus on the revisions that we've made since our last meeting I have here uh Andrew chill the project manager with K horn who will lead the presentation thank you Sam mayor council thank you for uh allowing me to be here very excited to be here to uh discuss this project and also just wanted to highlight uh also have my uh senior partner Jeff gronell with me Zach handy uh traffic engineer and of course you met U and the Borg as well all right well wanted to start off with a lot of words on these first two slides but just uh from the meeting minutes uh from May 23rd wanted to just start there on and highlight the things that have changed since that meeting uh and then we'll kind of go into the typical um presentation format um so the the first thing uh first comment was uh provide an overview map and so we we'll have a a way blown out map showing the different features existing features uh surrounding the corridor as well as what's proposed on Mocking Bird and then just wanted to highlight the r plot here on the left that we've plotted out about 11 ft long of the project limits a little hard to see at this scale but you can see and I've got it on PDF here as well we can zoom in and look at different dimensions and features along the corridor uh then what else is new is number two is there's a new rendering um on the intersection of uh Inver Gordon and Mockingbird kind of looking at that transition as you would go from Inver Gordon onto Mockingbird uh then on the roll plot we we've called out um driveways uh and the property addresses adjacent uh to the project and then number four we look we we've got a landscape pallet um with the different materials and vegetation uh that we'll be discussing in detail here uh the next next number five is provide renderings with pavement treatments uh and stamped asphalts striping low water Crossings and so forth we'll get into that we have also added an additional chicane um near Coconino Road uh on the corridor that I'll highlight and uh number seven just reiterating the driveways all driveways still uh maintain full access and that the median on the west side of the project near 56 Street has been reduced in length by 20 ft um since the last time you've seen this it's now 90 ft long and there's uh the nearest driveway is 65 uh feet feet away uh and with a p transition there that I'll show um and then of course the included in the uh notes from last meeting all right so with that uh here is the project location it's from along Inver Gordon uh south of Indian B wash to Mockingbird and then Mockingbird from Inver gor to 56th Street the two components the drainage improvements uh along this Corridor with a storm drain trunk line in uh Mockingbird as well as extending in inor and up to Indian V wash those improvements have the cost share 6535 with a flood control district roadway portion will be 100% as previously discussed um this is just kind of the history the the three Alternatives that were considered the Meander no Meander Mill and overlay uh and then the um different directions and the public meeting that was held in November of 2022 at Town Hall here and then uh the 60% we're currently at 60% design um that incorporates the chicanes some of these traffic calming features and now we've we've uh brought forth the hybrid approach with the medians on both the West and East ends of the projects okay so here's here's the new uh Slide the overview it's way zoomed out uh just of of kind of the the the project extents um let me see my pointer here it's a a little hard to see here but just for context sake and surrounding areas we have the Mockingbird west of 56 with existing medians highlighted here and these black dashes obviously up on Double Tree the the median up there as well and then along Inver Gordon the medians continue now the green I'll start on the east side here the green along Inver gor these these represent um medians that exist today that we'll have to replace with the drainage portion of the project the drainage scope requires uh installing a large box covert it'll take up a good chunk of the the roadway and to maintain traffic access we'll have to demo that median and then re uh replace it once the Project's done then the red here is is uh a median 160t long and then we then we have five sets of chicanes um each each set has about two chicanes each with the exception of this one which has three so there's there's 11 chicane features throughout the corridor they're all spaced um about 600 feet apart between the leaving one traffic caling feature to the start of the next traffic caling feature and that that's uh that that spacing is ideal for um traffic as as as to you know they can't get up speed before they have to enter into a next feature slow down and horizont and and curve around the sh chicanes excuse me uh the new chicane that was at is cocono road right here uh the new set of two uh another chicane and then now on the west Western half of a project we you'll see these pink lines denoting the two low water Crossings these are two um Crossings where the road currently dips uh their asphalt and the road uh to allow storm water runoff from mummy Mountain to cross Mockingbird Lane and continue North as it tries as it makes its way to Indian Ben wash and finally the the last Median on the west side of the project I'll pull up the the roll plot here in a minute and zoom in on some of these locations but um kind of an over uh an overview of the landscape pallet uh that was that was chosen for here I won't go one by one but uh we'll just mention that these the the features the hardscapes the trees the ground cover cacti shrubs these are these are all um uh from the visual significant Corridor master plan and that uh they uh the the the plants and the species are are all low water usage and drought uh tolerant so you'll see these um these different and vegetation appearing in the next few slides as we get into the renderings okay for the renderings also once again starting on the east side of the project this is the uh the view looking West down Mockingbird Lane from in Inver Gordon uh the new proposed uh median uh with the Landscaping uh the the um some Boulder features and at the front uh and then a palty tree and Ironwood tree uh grasses um and the uh the median width here is 11t wide and it's about 160t long from nose to nose here's another perspective um this is also from Inver Gordon but now we're looking Northwest at the intersection so kind of looking down uh North on Inver Gorn towards indien wash these are those three new or the the medians that exist today that we'll have to rebuild with the uh project um you can see there the there's existing pavers um here and then the median this is the the the proposed median along mocking BG and you kind of see the existing vegetation at this corner and how it it ties in um looking looking at that direction okay going to the west side of the project um this is from 56 Street looking East down Mockingbird Lane this uh this median did change it's it's now 90 ft in length uh 11 ft wide still uh um and it it has uh py trees very similar features with the boulders up front but here I'll draw your attention to is this um transition of the pavers after the median um into a a chicane and a feature just to the east that I'll show here on the roll the the roll plot okay F this is the last rendering of uh what a typical chicane would look like I'll take note that um these chicanes vary in length along the corridor the the the the shortest length um from nose to nose is about is 50 F feet uh the longest chicane is uh over feet the chicane width is 7 feet wide this will accom this will allow for uh accommodating tree plantings as shown with PES in the foreground and iron woods and back here um and the bike lane will go behind the chicane uh in between the the curb and the sidewalk and the chicane this uh the the space between the the curb and the curbing between the chicane and the existing curbing uh looking at providing concrete there um just for the maintenance aspect but also uh s for you know we can match some of the diff existing colors along the sidewalk here in the kind of a San Diego buff type type color um to tie into the existing all right with that I would like to go to the rule plot thank you let's see yeah so just a little overview on the r plot is this is identical to what's pinned on the wall over here same yeah just let me get my bearings here zoom in a little bit more there we go okay so in general the the roll plot shows the proposed features and then the images above the roll plot are just kind of examples um that we can uh show here but kind of starting on the east side once again uh there's the there's that median 160 ft long 11 ft wide we enter the first chicane the first chicane uh set has the three and uh you scroll to the West here um here's the new chicane at Coconino road we have a two there that fit in nicely with those intersections the offset intersections additional Shane here's the low water crossing want to highlight the the color on this um in the example uh this is an example within the town and it kind of gives a feel of what a the one out there is today you can obviously see that a vertical differential in the roadway a dip and water uh comes across and the purpose of the the concrete is you know the water can deteriorate the asphalt and the concrete can provide a a longer L longevity and help with maintenance and scraping if any debris or sediment collect uh in the roadway and this one example uh in the town it's the typical gray concrete um we we have also we could also provide coloring to such as the San Diego buff color uh as well to um to match in to the existing and this this there's the the other low water crossing with a set of chicanes in between now here's on the west west side of the project um you can see this here's this median it's 90 feet in length here's this uh p uh transition this would be very similar to what is showing on Inver Gordon as well as on Mockingbird west of 56 Street kind of tie the the project uh together there and and as it comes in and transitions um uh to the east there all right I'll just zoom out a little bit so you kind of see the pictures um here's here's a a similar instance and another part of the the town on 56 Street where this the pavers and the transition this similar very similar transition as this down here occurs where the pavers in the double yellow striping here's the chicane this is a chicane example on 52nd Street I'll just note here on this that uh the these chicanes are about 30 feet in length whereas the the minimum length on on these proposed chicanes are 50 50 feet okay transition back to the PowerPoint just two quick slides here um so here here's the the cost back here uh the cost for of the total costs 12.3 million the town costs 6.8 million and then the flood control shot cost share of the drainage portion of just shy of 5.5 million and the roadway improvements um along Mockingbird being 3.8 and um the Inver Gordon Improvement those roadway improvements since they're due to the drainage scope there's that cost share uh with the flow control all right the schedule we're at 60% design um they're looking at the you know looking at uh you know having um you know potentially the the the public input obviously uh but then Al also looking at the semar selection for later this year as well as uh advancing the design um at the end of the year with 90% And utility relocation anticipated construction start of May of 2026 with that that concludes uh my the presentation on for Mocking Bird happy to take any questions or feedback thank you for uh for joining us um I have some comments if it's okay get started get the conversation started I don't want to promise this the last one I'll do that on but um couple things just in terms of the timing and observation um from my perspective the road's currently under we had deferred this because of the the waterline reconstruction which started and it's scheduled to go June to January so I for future projects I do think it's a m opportunity to have been able to and this goes back to the question of delay and getting things coming back to us months later options months later instead of weeks later that in a perfect world we would have been able to phase this so that as soon as that water Line's done this is getting built because um now the residents that use that street and anyone traveling through is going to have to deal with an additional delay cycle but um I definitely think there's some improvement here and just in the interest of time I'm going to focus on the things I think need more Improvement uh from my perspective and then I'll yield to the council because they may disagree um just the photos again as a consultant coming here and I'm sorry I don't want to sound like I'm jumping on you but in the last meeting we talked about and in other meetings um you know showing the neighborhood tiing you do it there but not on the first photo that's from a different location we're trying to find consistency in the streetscapes the other thing with the chane a review of the past meetings if I'm recollecting correctly would have shown that I think there was unanimous agreement that the chicanes with all respect the chicanes in that part of town are not the preferred design option we were told these would look a lot better and be a lot nicer because we've talked about you know in the future redoing that redoing Mountain View other that's part of the plan here of our CIP processes to make our streetscapes look nicer to a higher standard so I'm hoping hoping that's not representative of what we're going to see because that's not what we're expecting based on past conversations so it may sound like a small point but it's at this state in the game it's it's kind of important to me at least more specific to the plan my two things I do think it's very important that we get public input after after the council lands on consensus before we move to a 90% plan um that's very important to me and if you can pull up the role plot with the chicanes I'm certainly not an expert on this um I appreciate that the you can start on Mockingbird in 56 if you want um I think it's better that that median shortened when I look at this condition as a general matter here's a gated driveway this driveway happens to be my driveway disclosure I think turning right towards a chicane is fine I have a little bit of a concern about turning left across the chicane that close to a driveway because I think you're going to find cars worried about coming into traffic or getting hit so they may creep into the bike lane I just see a potential for conflict pedestrian car conflict or carto car conflict um cyclist as well cyclist so there are a lot of cyclists on this road if we have I would I would be in favor of either really making this smaller eliminating it moving this I I'm not the engineer here but um as we go down you keep going down I'm I'm just trying to advance things so we're not as we look at this I do favor that for the counil benefit that darker color I think it looks nicer or some design element other than just white but there are spaces here uh oh there's the same screen keep going please so this this whole area there's no driveways on either side this feels like more of an opportunity I know and it was a a great suggestion I think it was council member label about can we put a chicane on each stretch but I would tend to want to put them where there's less it tends to be the straightaways on this road where people speed so even though there's that low water crossing I think where you have no driveway no potential of driveway is a better location for chicane rather than to the left of anyone's driveway I just see a potential problem for that like even know our Public Works does a great job of maintaining and I understand that they'll be taller plants and stuff but I just feel like it's it's kind of close to a driveway and it could cause an accident and you all may rightfully disagree because you're the experts in this area it's just not a condition we normally see in town maybe people will get used to it for myself and my family I wouldn't want it so I'm providing the feedback more as a resident that I wouldn't want that big chicane next to my driveway because I'm worried that I'm going to have to creep out into the road to make sure people see me um and I don't get hit because they're looking at the plants instead of my car so that's my feedback I thought I'd keep it quick that's it comments questions council member lell thank you mayor um thank you for the presentation I do think it was uh more robust than the last one I like the drawings the renderings I like the landscape pallet um I like how you're calling out each plant so we know it is I appreciate all that um to the mayor's point I I do have a a good amount of chicanes on my street and uh I never really noticed if there was a driveway right outside when I'm going to go home and look right now to see how that how that looks I will say I'm a fan of them our street has been helped significantly even by the um teeny tiny little ones right there that's my that's my street that's my house right across from that so I just think for the public I'd like them to understand that the chicanes I think do work um and they won't look like that so because that's the only thing they're going to see in the it's not a criticism as much as just I want them to understand it it's going to it's not going to look like that I think you had mentioned those might be as short as 10 or 15 feet they're they're some of them are even smaller than that so if you're saying the shortest chicane is going to be 50 feet and up to 200 that's not a good representation which is neither here nor there except that I want the public to understand that is not what it's going to look like it's going to look a lot nicer and um other than that uh yeah that's all I want to add thank you thanks counc Thomason very small question um speeding along mocking bird is a problem and I think I heard at a prior project that um the low water crossings that the different the contrast in color has the effect of slowing down traffic is that true or not true I agree they're prettier if it's not as high a contrast but I'm wondering if we don't get a speed mitigation benefit yeah yeah um again let Zach elaborate a little bit more on that but uh the there definitely the the color but then also the vertical uh dip in the roadway plays a part in it as well um like along M McDonald you know there and you just can't gun it and you can kind of see with this example right it with a with a worry of of somebody B bot bottoming out but yeah as well as the the color concept would you like to get there okay I would just add that the ones that do not it's more the perception you would expect to be differential it's not there but that affects those people Downs council member more thanks mayor I'm just going to express some frustration again because here although we have in our last presentation the council meeting minutes that were approved D with direction we don't have them here I do see that you have a slide that says these are the council meeting notes but I know for sure that we have one in there that says that we didn't want to design something to similar to what we see on 56 52nd Street no no offense to you I expect something different I think we all right I think we all I think we all had that conversation yet you know our here we are looking at something that we said we didn't want I don't understand how we get to that place and why that's not part of our meeting notes and it seems it doesn't Advance us forward it keeps us going through the same things at each meeting that is the frustration that I have that you can't remember from because they're they're months apart before we meet again on this and we don't have what our last Direction was in front of us in our new packet it's it's not it it's such a frustration to me the the comment on the uh the on moving these chicanes outside of uh left-and turns on driveways I I fully support that as well I think there's way too much chance of conflict with a cyclist that could be behind a tree or a bush coming through that direction and he's right up against the road it's just not a good situation I think they could be more strategically placed I do like that they're larger inide but I don't see it's not hard to come up with an illustration to show us that instead of showing us one that we don't want um but I I don't for me I understand what it's going to look like but I don't think all residents are in this business and will understand what it looks like and we want to see it in an illustration not going forward with a set of engineered drawings illustrations it's much easier to less spend your time's expensive your time's money and when we continue to go through this stuff and we keep seeing something that's not what we want to see it costs the town money to do that and I that's a real frustration for me so hopefully we can get on track here with these projects and get back to uh whether we have to go put a resolution in place and a stepbystep uh instruction of how to present these things um they need to be more consistent and they're not um I think that a lot of the things that were brought up are good advancements to this um I I do like San Diego buff but we seem to every time we replace concrete in town that has San Diego buff we replace it with gray and I don't understand why we do that so we're ending up in town with a bunch of Patchwork all over and I want to be make sure that we have a policy and I've asked this before of our town staff and our uh previous manager um what is our policy on that why do we do San Diego buff sidewalks and then if there's uh somebody comes in and does utility and tears it out they put gray back in and nobody says anything about it so we have that with vertical curb we have that with sidewalk and I'm sure that that situation will occur in a Crossing I think if we're going to do San Diego buff we're going to spend the extra money to do it it needs to be replaced with the same thing so um and that's not on you I'm just I'm just venting these situations but the other thing is this project timeline is like it is way out there I mean this seems like a lot of time I mean we've spent a lot of time trying to get this road to a completion date but now we're even getting close to even coming to a consensus here the the construction start times and and the estimated duration to build it seems really unreasonable to me to go all the way out till um this would be into 2028 that's just unbelievable that can you explain why yeah yeah um so thank you for the comments uh and so a little bit on the the schedule the main um what's kind of pushing the the start of the construction out till May 2026 is mostly the uh drainage uh the drainage portion of the project in the utility relocations so there's there's a lot of uh water lines electric lines tell gas lines in the corridor and we're with the storm drain running down Mockingbird and then in Inver Gordon uh we've talked to the utility companies like Hey we're we're we're going to have conflicts with your with your existing facilities and they um they indicated that their timelines to uh relocate prior to the construction of this storm drain they're they're anticipating about 18 months to do to do that uh about a mile and a half of work uh not relocating every utility right but we have a lot of catch basins along that so that's that's part of the that's most of the reason why we're we the anticip FID construction starts in May as to allow the utilities to be fully out of out out of the the the cordor when this project is is being constructed okay I appreciate that I thought we were a little further along on on the drainage work on this and so when you mention utility relocations and we're talking about chanes and I know we're all within the RightWay but that doesn't mean we're within what's existing there there's going to be some like you said we're going to have utility conflicts I don't think most people may not understand that when you're looking at doing some of these chicanes and these movements are you have you sent a survey crew out to go look and try to minimize utility relocations uh transferer boxes and things like that yes absolutely yes CH and vertically with a storm drain yeah we're trying to do everything possible to to avoid conflicts okay all right I appreciate that and I would like an answer back on our policy on San Diego buff thank you got it thank you thank you council member Pace are you available I know it's late over there no I'm still here listen must have good coffee over there yeah I know well I don't drink coffee remember but um no I think getting in the right direction listening to my peers I I am wondering mayor if this is another thing that on the 27 who want to come back and try to finish up or you know what what are your thoughts on that I just bring that up is I'm open to that depending on the will of the council and whether the consultant can um get these if there's consensus on the things we've talked we'll wrap up a cons I don't want to ask him to answer that until we have consensus but I point noted and I agree that this could be added okay thanks I yield I'm listening for now thanks thanks vice mayor thank you mayor uh improved presentation thank you for a lot of the detail um bring some clarity to my mind I comur with my colleagues about the chicanes seems to me that there could be a lot of thought we talked a little bit about what we did on Lincoln Drive in particular the thought of really people's driveways and how safe and and what it's going to mean so uh appreciate additional thought to that to my colleagues uh my colleagues thought but I think the I think the plan looks better I think you're getting a lot closer I do concur with the color um in those low spots it should be more consistent and I concur with the San Diego buff so appreciate it I yeld thank you council member Andy uh thank you mayor and thank you for the presentation and I just wanted to say I concur with my colleagues and um I am very open to uh continuing the conversation on the 27th or the 24th or whatever it is 27 great thanks thank you anything else the one thing that I heard that I'd like to add and thank you everyone for the great feedback also open to if if if you all think you can have something prepared with I think if I'm hearing correctly and you can tell me if you heard something else is some uh chicane relocation consideration to avoid those left turning driveways and maybe if there's no objection the one thing I heard that dovetails into what I was going to say is that low water crossing that we heard is not a a actual steep dip pressure that underscores what I was suggesting to maybe move chicanes over there principally because anecdotally at least and I'm not going to put the chief on the spot I think a lot of the speeding the excessive speeding dangerous speeding that I see unfortunately is from people who are very familiar with the road so once they figure out that that's not actually a dip they're going to speed I don't think that's going to be very effective traffic control I know for me if I'm going somewhere I've never driven before and I see something like that that's when you slow down even more but if you drive it every day and you know that it's not really a doesn't do anything then you're not going to slow down but I think the chicane still may have some effect so but we'll leave it in your hands I think to figure out locations can I ask the council I think the idea with this too about looking for some chicane relocation is to keep the cost the same or less not to increase the cost so that's further instruction that we're not looking to add more stuff maybe even you know if that one's eliminated or moov somewhere else and not to have them too close to as a starting point because I can imagine as a resident on that street that other residents will have the same feedback that they don't necessarily want something they can Invision right next to a turning movement so I think just doing that preemptively may help sure yes absolutely yeah we can uh we can definitely uh yeah look to optimize that on on the West Side here and utilize this this space between 59th place or 58th and 59th place to uh where there's no driveways so yeah we we'll definitely take a look there and um yeah and then yeah sorry I didn't for the the picture I guess that was just a yeah the context purposes but yes the the the full intent is was was U meant in in the rendering here and perhaps this this is a better uh replacement um on the roll plot to indicate the the feature but just to kind of show what a typical chicane would look like but yes there these are much long longer and wider uh for allow additional plantings so yeah and then also we'll mention uh uh that this the chicane over here the the two there's some that are greater than 200 feet is very unique uh for traffic calming features these a lot of these features uh can uh be 25 ft or less right for that a hard turn or whatnot right but this we really tried to come up with a unique design to extend these out longer and provide these additional beautifications for the uh unique to this Corridor and to the town okay so are we okay to schedule this on the 27th as well yes absolutely we can we can uh come back I'm just hearing if uh just the the revise on the west side there and we'll swap out the pictures uh and everything else yeah and look at any other I think the other direction any anything else it's I didn't I think we looked at all the role plot to see any other conflicts with or close to driveways I'm sorry driveways yeah driveways and what did you say council member oh the buff is there consensus on the on the buff I mean that's just a coloring thing okay and then I think is our goal that we reach consensus on this hopefully and then release it to the public release it for a public uh input before we get to the next level of of planning so that when we come back in the fall we can evaluate that and hopefully move forward yeah okay the last thing I would add is similar on the left side one of the council's comments has been to integrate it with the streetcape there so even though that looks nice on the left hopefully the treatment can be shown on the surrounding streets so that there's continuity on the street Scapes cuz I think that's from from McDonald so that's miles away from this street the 52nd mocking birg between 52nd and 56 is improved double tree's improved Inver Gordon's improved so the idea I would if I may for the council from what I heard before is to find a design element for that that um P area that matches what's already in the area that may match also it doesn't look like it to me but to try to keep the design themee consistent yeah absolutely yeah we do have the pictures we can show there the guess the intent on this one is to kind of show on 56 Street West here it's just the full median and this one kind of has the taper to it yeah but absolutely we'll include that U the surrounding pictures such great anything else from Council anything from staff okay should we aim Mr manager for the the update you think we have time should we start it is the council okay we can do it afterwards right ex session do you care whether or not you do an executive session before or after the regular meeting what does the council want to do executive session executive okay is there a motion to go into executive session then then seconded all those in favor please say I I okay [Music] I would never make I would never make it through a game e e e oh wow be on Duncan are we ready yes ether was she trying to get on mayor I'm connected Duncan connected me I'm sorry we can hear you council member P okay thank you we're just about to get started ready okay good evening everyone the town council meeting for June 13 2024 is called to order with the clerk please call the role mayor bian Wilner here vice mayor Stanton here council member anden here council member Lael here council member Moore here council member Pace here council member Thomasson here we have a quorum thank you uh next up we have the Pledge of Allegiance I'd like to to ask us a a special guest who's here to lead us in the pledge today we have a a great presentation coming up so don't get nervous Mike you're you're next but before we get to that um we have the the CEO and uh of experience scill with us for those of everyone on the council is aware experience godsill is our destination marketing organization and if you've been you have eyes and you see the internet and the Press you know that our resorts are recognized all the time for their worldclass performance and that's because of how great they are but I have a feeling that that wouldn't happen as easily or as often without the help of Rachel and her team so in appreciation of Rachel who's also a Paradise Valley resident I'm going to ask her to lead us in the pledge tonight to the flag the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you Rachel and we also have a very special presentation tonight the town is indebted to Mike kamsky for as many years of generous service to the Paradise Valley Police Department the community uh and others for the safely shred and electronics recycling event Mike would you please come forward and wheny you're welcome to join as well to receive a proclamation from the town [Applause] come on over here pictures and everything the whole shebang we're giving you the full package um and if you notice this is this is incased wood so and not be shredded and recycled this is a keeper that's right historic preservation on this one whereas the town of Paradise Valley safe safely shred uh celebrated its 10th year on April 27th 2024 and whereas it's with great pleasure that we acknowledge the continued commitment of Mike kisy to the Paradise Valley Police Department safely shred and electronics recycling event and whereas Mike has generously volunteered countless hours and his own resources to sponsor coordinate and promote the safely shred event which provides a much needed service to town residents while promoting the types of sustainability efforts stated in in the town's General plan and whereas donations made at the safely shred event benefit angels on patrol allowing our Police Department to respond to community members in crisis and supports Paradise Valley Police Department's commitment to Special Olympics now therefore I Jerry ban Winer mayor of the town of Paradise Valley to hereby recognize and honor Mike kamsky for his long-standing commitment to the Paradise Valley Police Department and safely shred an electronics recycling event and his dedicated volunteer leadership with respect to the same as we wish him continued success in giving back to our community congratulations [Applause] Mike uh what would I like I think I'd say this is just a great partnership between my private business in the town and I'm happy to have sponsored it for so long it's been great and um the participation of the U residents has increased and they are very very happy to make shredding donations to support the police department so it's a it works all the way around thank you congratulations thanks than you does council want to join and take a few pictures there's a rumor that you're shredding is so effective that uh Enron is kind of the former Enron people are [Laughter] jealous second shredding event Jimmy fan with the community resource officers from the pvpd starting with Kevin Albert um and oh sorry you want the tall guy in the middle um yeah but the police department's been really really helpful in coordinating all and all the volunteers too [Applause] thanks again mark okay the next item is the call to the public an opportunity for residents to address the Council on matters not on the agenda in conformance with open meeting laws the council may not discuss or take action on any matters raised however the council May respond to criticism after all public comments have been made ask staff to review a matter or ask that be placed on a future agenda excuse me speakers are asked to state if they are a town resident and also ask to limit their comments to 3 minutes if you'd like to address the council please feel out to speaker request form they're located on the Lecter by the entrance to the council chambers excuse me once completed please hand them to the town clerk Mr Miller got one Mr rasmason Mr Robert rasmason Paradise Valley resident wish is to address the council and we did get a copy of your notes sir just to let you know but you're please feel free to that's so you can check my spelling and my words good evening Council my name is Robert rason and I'm a 40-year plus Town resident I won't tell you where the fractional part of my life on that that's too much to fact figure the andaz resort expansion on their five acres was presented at the town over a year ago and was approved by the Planning Commission and the council last year 2023 it seemed like everyone concerned was satisfied the town the resort and the residents as I recall the plans called for 10 Extended Stay structures built on the 5 Acres with aess coming from within the andaz resort property from Scottdale Road consideration for Quail Run residents involved granting a greater setback Eastward of the units in the block fence with proper maintained Landscaping along Quail Run since then nothing has been done my concern is what are anda's plans for this 5ac plot of land hopefully a resolve can be found and this 23 approved expansion will be completed without andas resubmitting their plans having to go through all of this again thank you for granting me my minute thank you questions spelling thank you very much we're Limited in what we can say I will ask on behalf of the council that staff review this matter which I would understand to include uh a response to Mr rasmon to update him on where things are at yes thank you thank you and forgive us we have formalities uh from the Attorney General's office that we have to follow on that you're always welcome here and we always appreciate your comments thank you he didn't say know he's B thank you uh next unless is there any other calls to the public is anyone in the in the public wish to address the council who hasn't had a chance to do so great we'll move to the consent agenda items on the consent agenda are considered by the council to be routine and are normally enacted by single motion if a member of the council or the public would like to discuss any item it will be removed from the consent agenda and considered separately would our town manager please summar summarize tonight's consent agenda thank you Mr Mayor uh consent agenda items uh start with 24-20 which is approval of the minutes of town council meeting of May 23rd 2024 item 24-1 197 discussion and possible action to cancel the June 24th 2024 regular council meeting although based upon our conversation earlier today this may be perhaps taken off the agenda or reconsidered uh 24-18 discussion and possible action regarding acceptance of donations to the town of Paradise Valley for fiscal year 24-21 discussion and possible action to partner with the Maricopa Association of governments to support homeless shelter Services 24205 discussion and possible action to approve agreement extension between the town of Paradise Valley and Experience Scottsdale 24206 discussion and possible action to approve the First Amendment to the linking and agreement between the town of Paradise Valley and axon Enterprise Inc 24207 discussion and possible action to approve a grant agreement and Associated memorandum of understanding with the Arizon Department of administration for implementation operation of the 911 emergency te telecommunication system 24210 discussion and possible action to approve the First Amendment to the town manager employment agreement 24-25 discussion and possible action to adopt resolution 20249 amending the financial management policies 24- 213 discussion and possible action to adopt resolution 2024-25 the East Valley critical incident response team and 24- 220 discussion and possible action to adopt resolution remove that okay so I'll just go to that um would any council member like to remove an item from the consent agenda mayor I'd like to remove uh 24-1 197 discussion and possible action to Council of June 27 2024 regular council meeting uh thank you may I ask a question do you mind is it appropriate if the intent is is your intent to remove it so that it's not to discuss it separately but just to remove it entirely just to remove it and then have a discussion to say that we're going to okay have a council consensus to continue with that thank you uh is there any other council member would like to remove an item from the consent agenda would anyone in the audience like to remove an item from the consent agenda seeing none I will take a motion to approve the consent agenda with the exception of the item removed by council member Moore I so move second it's been moved by council member Thomasson and seconded by vice mayor Stanton to approve the consent agenda with the exception of the item for the last meeting removed by council member Moore all those in favor please say I I any opposed say nay thank you the eyes have it unanimously council member more thank you mayor U regarding uh 24-1 197 discussion and possible action to council the June 27 2024 regular council meeting I ask for my colleague support to uh keep that meeting in place thank you is there any discussion on the motion I'll just make a note that I'm planning to as I said in the study session I'm planning to be a away I'll do my best to make it um don't schle around me if I have comments I I have full faith that I can provide those to the town manager Council vice mayor and have those heard so um very good with that uh is everyone in favor say I I I any opposed thank you um thank you council member more there are no public hearings tonight action items five of them uh the first is 24-204 discussion possible action to authorize purchase of vehicles in fiscal year 2425 staff recommendations to approve the purchase and and our staff contact and the reason for this is it's a an amount uh above the threshold I believe and our staff contact is uh Mr Jerry Cooper good evening May mayor and members of council um tonight this the purpose of this presentation is to and how do I change these slides thanks so the purpose of the presentation tonight is to request approval from Council to purchase six new vehicles um three of these vehicles are recommended for replacement and three of them will be additional Patrol vehicles for our Police Department we'll talk about the cost and our recommendations and I'll take any questions after that um these are the three vehicles we're recommending for replacement the first vehicle is a 2003 Ford F250 um this vehicle is 22 years old it's costing our Fleet Department approximately 29 cents per mile to operate um the second vehicle is a 2000 F-150 um this vehicle is 24 years old and it's C an our Fleet Department approximately 20 cents mile to operate and then the Third vehicle is a 2011 Chevrolet 2 2500 um it's costing us approximately 11 C per mile to operate it's 13 years old and it has mechanical issues on a cono basis um the additional vehicles that we would like to add to our Police Department's Fleet is um three 2025 Ford Explorer police interceptors we want to go to these interceptors for the reason we're trying to break away from the tahos because the new tahos that we purchase and other municipalities purchase seem to have mechanical failures all the time so we're going to try something a little bit different here so here's a cost summary of the six new vehicles um the three Public Works vehicles that we're requesting to replace and the additional Ford Explorers for our Police Department's Patrol Fleet um the cost is a total of $299,700 Quest and this cost does not include any vehicle equipment upfitting that will be procured separately so staff recommends the purchase of the three Chevrolet vehicles at a cost of [Music] $133,500 are $166,200 and that's under a state contract with Ford and with that I'll take any questions thank you very much are there any questions from Council is there anyone in the audience who'd like to speak on this item is there any further discussion is there a motion Mr Mayor it would be my privilege to make a motion to approve the purchase of the vehicles as outlined in 24-204 second it's been moved by council member Thomasson and seconded by council member Moore all is there any discussion on the motion all those in favor please say I I I any oppose thank you and we got we heard you council member Pace um 24-24 discussion and possible action thank you discussion possible action to authorize the town manager to execute Amendment 7 to Professional Services agreement with brown Associates for third party plan review and inspection services related to construction activities at the five-star development and Amendment Six to the third party Inspection Agreement with festar Resort owner LLC and festar landowner LLC and wave the 14-day waiting period the recommendations to authorize the town manager to execute uh these agreements and our staff contact is our community development director Chad Weaver yes mayor thank you this is essentially a continuation of an agreement we've had in place with festar for a number of years now uh whereby we have brown and Associates do a number of the inspections on site due to the volume and the timing of those inspections as opposed to our own staff and then five star reimburses us for those inspections thank you are there any questions from the council is there anyone in the audience who'd like to speak on this [Music] item is there any council member more just a question thank you mayor um Mr Weaver how many uh inspections are they doing on a daily basis now and how how busy is that uh that need to continue using brown and Associates I know they pay for it but yeah they do I couldn't tell you the number as of late uh it's been pretty busy they've got some other CFOs they're probably going to ask for um Chuck Ransom and I the building official are going to go out there shortly just to get an update in person and I give you some more information but uh there are certainly too many for our staff to handle at this point I can say that that's good to hear thank you thank you any further uh discussion or questions council is there a motion mayor I uh recommend that we approve discussion and possible action for the town manager executed the amendment seven for the professional service agreement with Bron Associates for third party review and inspection services related to construction activities at the five-star development and amend six to the third party Inspection Agreement with festar owner LLC and festar owner landowner LLC and wave the 14-day period second thank you it's been moved by council member Moore and seconded by vice mayor Stanton is any discussion on the motion all those in favor please say I I I any opposed thank you eyes have it item 24-26 discussion and possible action to approve a contract with brown and Associates the recommendations to authorize the town manager to execute a linking agreement for Cooperative purchase with brown and Associates Certified Inspection Services in for a thirdparty plan review and inspection services and to wave the 14-day waight period to execute agreements once again our contact is uh community development director Chad Weaver thanks again mayor again this is a relationship we've had for a number of years this is the service we do with brown to supplement our own town staff on various inspections as needed uh this was reflected in the budget that you've recently adopted thank you very much are there any questions from Council is there anyone in the audience would like to speak on this item is there any further discuss discussion is there a motion mayor I move that we authorize the town manager to execute a linking agreement for Cooperative purchase with brown and Associates Certified Inspection Services for thirdparty plan review and inspection services and wave the 148 period to execute agreements second thank you it's been moved by council member leel and second by vice mayor Stanton is there any discussion on the motion all those in favor please say I I I any opposed thank you the eyes have it unanimously um item 24-21 discussion and possible action to adopt resolution 202 24-11 amending the fiscal year 2024 budget which ends June 30th 2024 the staff recommendation is to adopt the resolution and direct the CFO to make an excess contribution in the amount of $5 million towards unfunded acred actual Actuarial liability of the public safety Personnel Retirement System in fiscal year 2023 24 and 382,000 for the purchase of a street sweeper and our staff contacts our CFO welcome hey good evening this item is for two purposes one is to authorize the 5 million payment to the psprs but also to adjust our budget to allow for that purchase and to allow for the street sweeper that was already approved in a previous session so if you have any questions thank you thank you for that uh are there any questions question from Council is there anyone in the audience who'd like to speak on this item is there any further discussion is there a motion Mr Mayor I move that we adopt resolution 2024-the 2024 budget and direct the CFO to make an excess contribution in the amount of 5 million towards 5 towards the unfunded acred Actuarial liability of the public safety personnel Retirement System in fiscal year 2023 24 and 382,000 for the purchase of a street sweeper second thank you it's been moved by council member anden and seconded by council member pace is there any discussion on the motion all those in favor please say I I I any opposed thank you the eyes have it unanimously item 24-28 discussion and possible action to adopt resolution 202 24-14 approving the town of Paradise Valley employee handbook the staff contact is our director of HR who's ready to make a presentation good evening mayor and Council thank you for allowing me to be here tonight um the presentation I have for you is the same one that was presented during study session I am happy to present it again or if you are comfortable with that presentation I am happy to answer any questions you may have thank you you um any objection from Council to waving the presentation seeing none any questions I know we had a robust set of questions in the study session uh I think staff did a great job answering the questions um but any further questions seeing none is there anyone in the audience who would like to speak on this item is there any further discussion is there a motion mayor I move that we adopt resolution 202 24-14 approving the town of Paradise Valley play handbook i' second and Mr Mayor there is a oh we got to add that a voice amendment to section yes thank you you want to just read it in um you made the motion no would you like to is that the best form where oh um it's section four this I think you could probably say with this additional language okay section I would ADM my uh motion to add the town manager is further directed to as assess the budgetary and operational consequences of this Revolution and to provide the findings in such assessment Council prior to or in conjunction with the presentation of the annual budget for fiscal year 2026 second thank you it's been moved by council member Moore and seconded by uh council member Thomason with the amendment as stated and as in this document is there any discussion on the motion all those in favor please say I I any opposed thank you the eyes have it unanimously congratulations on all the hard work and to the legal team as well and everyone who worked on it um next up we would normally have future agenda items we do have a study session item a report which is related to kimley Horn and in the interest of not keeping people here who are not needed to be here for anything else I'd ask for the council's permission to go forward with that study session item okay so that is uh [Music] item 24-1 91 Town town of Paris Valley storm water master plan development check-in number one our staff contacts Our Town engineer Char Johnson [Music] good evening mayor and council members so we be we'll be providing an update on the stormw master plan for Paradise Valley this is the first Council check-in and I'm here along with Jeff prell from kimley horn he's the project manager so quick the agenda um we will go over the focus and goals that have been established the progress to date um since the kickoff on March 26 of this year the project schedule overview and next steps and [Music] questions so the focus and goals um to start from the top is Council checkins during the project for formulation and prioritization which we're doing today this is our first check-in of three that have been identified but there are opportunities to add additional check-ins along the way throughout the duration of the project the next is no projects on private property or no no rightaway takes that's another Focus as well as well as biggest bang for for um your buck with mitigation efforts and identifying cost sharing opportunities for Grant with grant opportunities for cost sharing that's going to be as well um a goal for the project and identifying Capal Improvement and prioritizing those projects and um maintenance needs throughout the um throughout the town so I will hand it over to Jeff who will go through the remaining of the presentation and talk about the progress thank you all right okay thank you uh thank you mayor and and council members so I'm here just to present our progress right on on this uh important project so I'm going to run through this pretty quickly in the interest of time you know recognizing that we are certainly only two months into the project but we've definitely made significant progress so far um mostly what we've been focusing our efforts on to date is is kind of data collection and cataloging because there was a lot of existing data out there as far as um drainage issues and drainage problems and in previously identified projects as well so we wanted to make sure that we were starting with all that uh kind of knowledge um collected and as our as our jumping off point for this project for sure not to kind of repeat any efforts or um you know just really being able to leverage um existing existing effort and resources um the other thing we've been focused on is uh analyzing existing storm Dr capacities because we need to know where we can tie in um with any proposed projects that sort of thing so that's an important uh component of this and then the real the main issue is the building the comprehensive Town Wine uh storm water model the hydrology and hydraulics model and that's something that our subconsultant J Fuller has been working on um since the kind of the kickoff of the project and uh they're on task they're uh on schedule uh their first deliverable uh our first deliverable is uh the base model so that's kind of your your first level model without all the detail built into it um and that's scheduled to be submitted for review in Late July and we're on schedule with that and I've seen some sneak peeks of the modeling results and they look really good uh you all are going to get really state-of-the-art modeling as part of this project um combine that with the the web viewer that's part of our scope and you're really going to have some some powerful tools as far as managing your flood hazards in the town we put together a series of maps to kind of demonstrate where we are from a data collection standpoint I'll run through these pretty quick stop me at any point if you have any questions but we' sliced and diced everything in a number of ways uh to really be able to kind of graphically display um all the different data points in the town already so this first map here is really just a general storm water problem locations map right these are all the locations that we already know about that have had some level of storm water issues um and there's about 275 of those you can see here within the town boundaries the next map starts to kind of categorize those right and so on this map we've divided those those flooding issues into either potential structure flooding property flooding or Road flooding and so in this case structure flooding means a reported damage to a structure in a storm event so this is that these are locations that that has actually happened mostly in that 20 2014 time frame right and you can see they're all kind of centered there um along Cherokee wash um and then uh the purple the property flooding so that's where properties private property was damaged but not structures and then finally Road flooding that's more maintenance issues or areas where we know there's some some ponding or that sort of thing in the road in the road surface the next map now takes those 275 points and divides it by how we found out about it how it was reported um and this divides it into either reported by the public by residents or by Town staff and so you can see the distribution there in uh now we're going to a series of maps that just kind of shows where you've already been as far as project identification and studies goes so this first map here shows the the flood control district of amopa County studies that uh over the town and so there's four of them basically and so this is our starting point for our comprehensive model development and that we're taking these models and building one comprehensive Town model using the parameters that were developed for these models but with better topography better resolution uh the current technology that sort of thing so you'll have like I said earlier a state-of-the-art model um next a series of maps this is kind of the projects that we're identified as part of all the past studies that have occurred within the last several uh years or U maybe the last decade or so starting with the the cheny uh cheny Watershed drainage Improvement study that you all commissioned um so here's kind of some of the projects were fleshed out as part of that study and then the general area of impact right so this is either the area that's contributing to these projects or the areas benefited from these projects and so this is kind of our jumping off point for for identifying potential proposed projects in the future once we have the modeling results kind of finalized um and we had the same thing for the flood control studies so here's for the couo wash uh FL flood control study those areas and each one is a little different in the way they identifi projects that sort of thing so they look a little different but we have all this in this wall be housed in in the master plan uh document and that sort of thing and this is the projects that we'll will start from when we start to formulate and prioritize projects uh here's for lower Indian and was this was kind of the first flood control study that uh impacted the town and so this is a good example of why this study is useful and relevant to you all a good expenditure of public funds and that this study is old and dated and there's been a lot of advances since then as far as the technology goes and even the project formulation so um but it is we're definitely not going to forget the pass and we're going to use this um as like I said our starting point same thing oh so so this one here is another uh so this is taking all the projects and uh kind of starting to categorize those right and so this is CIP this is a this map shows CIP and staff identified projects and so what that means is um you know storm drain projects are currently CIP uh roadway drainage Improvement projects and then staff identified improvements and so this is going back a number of years um with various staff members that uh have identified whether it's through public complaint or you know report a flood or whatever um different areas that that uh warrant uh a project right so here's where we are from schedule standpoint the red line indicates you know kind of today our kickoff was about 2 months ago on March 26th so progress to date has been like we said this kind of data collection effort so most of task three assessments and then that modeling effort shown in task four um like I said earlier our first deliverable on the modeling effort is at the end of July that's on on task from a expenditure standpoint we've we've build about 133% of the budget uh and I would say it's hard to kind of formulate where we are from a a percent complete standpoint because of this early days right we haven't start to started to really formulate plan uh projects and that sort of thing or the report but I say we're that our progress is very commiserate with you know where we are from a budget standpoint for sure um back to this focus and goals slide with a little bit more detail right so cancel uh Council check-ins that's what why why we're here tonight um first checkin just really kind of demonstrate our progress but the next check-in is not scheduled till mid November so we may want to think through that there may be uh necessity for a checking in between now and then depending on the modeling effort and where we get with project formulation but per the schedule that's where we are so just that's that's um you know just kind of anticipate that again just no projects some private property that's you know that's drilled into our brains for sure on this um from a bigest Spain bang standpoint so we're going to come at that from a couple different directions one is biggest bang with flood mitigation right of course right we want projects that are effective and truly address flood mitigation but we recognize that these things need to get built and that takes dollars right so we want to maximize those cost sharing opportunities and there's a number of those mostly with the flood control district meropa county you've all have exploited those already and those are good programs right they have two different programs that are applicable one for smaller projects one for larger projects and those are great cost sharing opportunities but in addition to that there's also Federal grant fund uh Federal grant opportunities as well mostly through FEMA in the form of like brick grants or uh hmgp grants those types of things and for projects to qualify for those opportunities they have to have meet certain thresholds and so we'll look for those opportunities as well and that's mostly in in benefit cost and I know you all are um certainly cognizant of benefit cost that's something that you always want to see with your projects and that sort of thing uh FEMA has a a very um specific procedure for calculating that and that's something we'll we'll want to look at for the bigger projects with your direction of course and then like uh like Char mentioned the you know the capital Improvement uh and maintenance kind of aspects of this you know be able to inform your CIP and uh and then addressing maintenance concerns with your maintenance staff so next steps again finishing the modeling effort um that's a uh it's a long drawn out process for sure but there's a lot of detail that gets built into these models and we anticipate utilizing the flood control district amopa county for our technical reviews and they do a very thorough job there in um comparing those modeling results with all these known floating problems we certainly want to vet that make sure that they're real um as per the modeling results anyways also v v it from the ground that sort of thing we certainly are not going to formulate 275 projects right so we have to do some vetting here as well um and then refine that list with possible new areas maybe whatever comes out of the modeling effort um and then and then identifying and prioritizing projects and that's where you all come in we're certainly not going to do that in the vacuum we're going to do that at your direction what's your PRI you know your priorities what kind of projects do you want to see formulated a mix of large and small a mix of Maintenance and Capital Improvements that sort of thing but that's part of the discussion that we'll continue to have with with you all tired uh and I think that was it like I said I was going to run through that pretty quick and just the time and excellent uh report very easy to follow any questions from Council council member Thompson thank you mayor I have a question for you and a suggestion to my colleagues the question for you is what exactly is a base model and my suggestion to my colleagues is that perhaps we get our next progress update after the base model is done I know that will help me in my understanding of flood mitigation yeah absolutely so the terminology based model is uh relative to the way the flood control district of America County builds these these uh flow 2D models and that's the software that we're using to build your comprehensive townwide model and so that and we're we're adapting that procedure because it's a pretty sound procedure and so that procedure is to First Take Your topography and your land use and your soils and and put rainfall on top of that and in the nness of the ground surface and that kind of thing put rainfall on top of that and that's your base model so the base model does not have storm drain it doesn't have channels necessarily um unless it's they're reflected in the topography already it doesn't have walls uh that sort of thing it does have building structures I I missed that but it doesn't have some of those really uh detailed drainage features and so that's our starting point and we start there and we like to make a submitt at that point because we don't want to get get too far down the road with the technical review um before we start to build in that additional detail so the base model is is basically the entire model without storm drain and walls so if I understand that the base model will tell us when the rain falls down and it runs where it runs the base model will show us where that all where that water all goes absolutely thank you uh Sands walls because and walls certainly influence flow direction right and and there's a whole whole discussion that goes with walls on whether or not we should include them in a model FEMA doesn't want to see walls in the model Flood Control District like to see kind of both variations uh at some point depths against the wall it's going to knock it down that's why FEMA doesn't like to see it but this is not a female model it's not a female exercise so you know that will be a decision Point as well but we'll get the base model done first um as far as your second part of that the check-in I agree other than the fact that we recognize that you all are typically on the summer recess when this model's going to get submitted maybe your first session back that sort of thing we'd be happy to show you the results of that first modeling effort thank you other questions or comments I'll I'll respond to council member Thomas's thomason's uh question I'm certainly open to looking at that as well uh um and knowing council member Thompson this is implicit in her request but provided it's not remember we talked about a limited amount of check-ins I don't think we want to drive project cost up to have that kind of a check-in but barring that I'm fine if the council wants more data if it's something that's expensive or or costs anything extra for us to do i' maybe think twice about it and have it lumped in with the other presentation but that's you know it's up to you all and staff to figure out I don't know if council member Thomasson feels the same way about that or not no I I agree is there other interest in getting that it's a costree report is everyone okay with getting it earlier because only in the context that we have limited reports and even if it's something that you think if staff can decide if I'm sorry I don't mean to inter on your point staff can present it to us and save the expense and I just think we've got limited I remember that was part of the negotiation of this contract how many check-ins we got and if we need to use one later I don't want to my watch but I wouldn't want to see us get charged for that our thought process and all in that recognizing that there's you know we wanted to uh limit the budget as much as possible is that early on and this process of data collection and model formulation and identifying the flood hazards we'd have less check-ins right and then when we start to utilize the results to formulate projects right that's the intent of the master plan ultimately that's when we would really have more intense kind of um commun you know back and forth and and check-ins and and that sort of thing coration as an alternative mayor perhaps we could handle it at the staff level I'm sure that will be given to staff staff could share that with us and we could call if we have further questions that's an alternative I just really want to see the map with all the colors and start to wrap my head around uh the basic issues y yeah and that's the mle will definitely include um a number of of maps of the results um in different formats that would be useful to to review for sure sorry with the STA emailing the starting point we could always schedule something if that okay good great suggestion any other questions comments well thank you very much you covered a lot of ground in a short amount of time and I think you got us to understand it too so that's that's something because not all us are experts on this up here so thank you thank you and thanks for sticking around sorry this got to late until after that the main part of the meeting um so we go back to the the regular order future agenda items the town's future agendas subject to change and public meetings schedu is available on the town's website upon clicking on meetings and agendas are there any upcoming items the town manager would like to note at this time look forward to having a meeting in two weeks I have uh updated presentations regarding Mockingbird from uh 56 to Inver Gordon and on the uh Double Tree uh and sco Road uh plan so looking forward to that special meeting in August and also we'll have a special meeting in August to Canvas the results of the July 30th election great what day in August is thatth August 15th okay thank you um is there any council member wishes to make a motion to add an item to Future agenda none uh comments are there any reports from members of the council council member Thomason I just wanted to say for the public record that I was thrilled that we added the three-year contract extension to experience Scottdale they do a wonderful job for us as we all know and it's I think it's great for us to extend their part our part parip with them three more years thank you thank you other comments Mr vice mayor thank you mayor um just a a couple of items first of all wishing everybody a Happy Father's Day coming up so make sure you say hi to your dad thank him um couple of items from acops we had a great meeting this week very robust uh the acops volunteers are fully engaged and thank you Chief you and Jimmy fan for a a very prod Ive meeting uh we had uh coffee with a cop which we uh which we shared the coffee with a cop and we did coffee with a firefighter and we had a good representation from Phoenix fire to talk about fire prevention and fire uh fire safety so thanks for arranging for that and appreciate that from our uh fire Services team uh also we've got copy with the cop coming up and that is on July the 3 and that is going to be on water safety and we've talked about that several times so so make sure you you tune in for that and be thinking about water safety whenever you're out by the pool or by neighbors pools and speaking of neighbors let's make sure we get out and walk around a bit and do a uh do a walkabout for the 9:00 walk according to Stats we're seeing a decrease in burglaries but that doesn't mean we uh we take less Vigilant approach how we look at Public Safety and so um make sure you do that 9:00 6 o' walk and uh come around then I do have a little little sad news that I'd like to share U um uh Russ Mosser longtime volunteer for the town uh passed away and I wanted to just give a quick uh recap of Russ and his uh incredible Legacy in Paradise Valley he started as a PV volunteer in 2008 remained in the program the police volunteers before he moved to Oregon and he served as chair of the volunteers for six years Russ was also the longest continuous volunteer one of the longest continuous Volunteers in the town with 45 years of service he was a sworn police Reserve officer uh for 8 years chairman of the police Retirement Board for 30 years and served two terms as a council member and also two terms on Planning Commission in addition to being a champion and a proponent of the McCormack Stillman Railroad Park so our thoughts to his family and um and the great service and Legacy that he's left in Paradise Valley he'll always have a place in our heart that I yield thank you very much for that vice mayor well said any other reports comments I was going to wish everyone a great summer but that'll happen in two weeks same bad time same bat Channel different date all right um is there report from the town manager um obviously one of the uh consent agenda items was uh an amendment to my employment contract and I've been here almost a year now in this capacity and I just wanted to express my my deep appreciation and gratitude um for your vote of confidence in me tonight uh and how much I've enjoyed working here and will continue to enjoy working here um it's been great uh to get to know all the members of council the residents the staff here and uh best has yet to come and looking forward to continuing to work and do good for for this great Community thank you thank you very much thank you the next meeting is uh two weeks from now time to be determined start time to be determined um most likely study session but I think staff will help poll us to get a good time for everybody U if there's a need to do a I don't know that there's a need for an agenda setting meeting but if there is you can certainly Loop Us in happy to do that um whenever it's ready we understand that may not be on the regular Tuesday schedule because it's just a it's a short meeting anyway but if it helps staff to to do that we can certainly do that um and Then followed by the as mentioned the August 15th canvas of the election result is there a motion to adjourn nope it's been moved by council member Dean second by Council council member PA to adjourn all those in favor please say I I any opposed thank you the meeting's adjourned good should read that [Music] speed good night council M half SP half half pace yeah was the motion here you that's it is thanks here's a stuff from Mr rason you're welcome thank you well done back at you nice job