Fountain Hills Council Approves Contentious Employment Raises and Solar Project in Consecutive 5-2 Splits; McMahon Forced to Vote Against Her Conviction on Bundled Contract

I'd like to call this uh Cottonwoods Maintenance District meeting to order. Can I get a roll call, please? Town clerk. Chairman Fidell present. Vice Chair Earl present. Board member Skilicorn here. Board member Calbianakis here. Board member Watts here. Board member Larb here. And board member McMahon here. Chairman Yavor. Thank you.

So we're we have consideration of possible action regarding resolution CMD 2026-03 assessing upon the individual lots and parcels within the district a certain sum sufficient to raise the amount estimated to be required for the annual budget. Paul, thank you chairman and board. Tonight is the final meeting for the Cottonwoods Maintenance District uh for the fiscal year 2027 budget.

The resolution tonight includes a property tax assessment or levy uh on the 58 parcels within the district at $212.79 to support the budget um as approved at the last meeting. So with that be happy to answer any questions. Seeing no questions um are there any comment cards clear? Thank you. Any other uh board discussion? Can I get a motion? Motion to accept. Second. We have a motion and a second. Can we get a roll call vote, please? Chairman Larby. Board member Larby. Hi. Board member McMahon.

I. Board member Watts. Hi. Board member Skilorn. Yes. Board member Calvianis. I. Vice Chair Earl. I. And Chair Fidel. I. Chairman 70. Thank you. Can I get a motion? Is there There's no other business. The motion to adjurnn. Second. Motion and a second. All in favor? I I thank you. Okay, we will now move on to our regular town council meeting. Would you all please rise for the pledge of allegiance of the stands nationy and justice for all.

And if you choose to uh we'll have a moment of silence in place of a invocation tonight. Thank you. Town clerk, could I get a roll call, please? Mayor Fidell, present. Vice Mayor Earl, present. Council member Calvianis, here. Council member Watts, present. Council member Larabby, present. Council member McMahon here. And council member Skilcorn here. Mayor Evor. Thank you. And we'll move on now to our summary of current events by town manager Rachel. Thank you, Mayor.

I have a little list tonight, so please bear with me. A couple of pertinent updates for the community. Um, first I want to thank all the teens who participated in our video game tournament last week. Um, registration was full with more than 30 kids competing in two age groups for bragging rights and cash prizes in both Mario Kart and uh, Super Smash Brothers. It was great to see such strong participation in one of our summer teen programs.

It's also really fun to see the staff getting ready for it as they work on their skills. Um, it's a that's a fun day. Um, I also want to recognize our finance team for a recent notification from the government finance officers association. We just received uh notice that the town was awarded the Triple Crown Award for all three of our FY2024 financial reports. This is a significant achievement and Fountain Hills is only one of 440 governments to receive this award.

Um and that is for 440 nationwide. It's I want to say it's fewer than a dozen or so uh in Arizona. So, it's a pretty big deal. So, congratulations to our finance team and everyone involved in maintaining the town's high standards for financial reporting and transparency. Looking ahead, we have our annual Fourth at the Fountain celebration taking place on Saturday, July 4th at Fountain Park. The event begins at 6:30 and is free and open to the community.

This year's celebration will feature Roger Klein and the Peacemakers, which is a really a very, very fun act, and he will be taking the stage around 7:30, uh, followed by fireworks over Fountain Lake beginning at 9:00. We are also expecting a flyover from Luke Air Force Base and their 56th Fighter Wing featuring four F35s at approximately 7:30, but of course that timing is a little subject to, you know, to flight operations and weather.

We encourage everyone to come out, bring chairs and blankets, and enjoy the evening. Shifting gears a little bit, um, EPCOR will be holding an in-person meeting regarding its rate increase application next Wednesday, June 24th at 5:30 at the community center. Um, I encourage the public to, if not attend, at least read up on what EPCOR's requests are. Residents who are interested in learning more about the application or providing input, um, are welcome to attend.

So again, that's 5:30 next Wednesday. Separately, residents should also be on the lookout for information about a public education session later this summer where EPCOR will share information and answer questions related to water usage in Arizona and how those broader issues affect us here in Fountain Hills. Water is obviously a very real and very um in demand resource.

Um and it's a very important topic for many in our community and this will be a good opportunity for residents as well as our council. You guys are also invited to attend uh to learn more, ask questions and better understand the issues affecting our region. Okay, one more. I also wanted to remind everyone that election day is July 21st. Mark your calendars. Residents are encouraged to make a plan to vote and watch for ele official election information uh from Maricopa County.

I know our town website is uh maintained and updated with the proper links um as well as election information can is also available at be ballot ready.vote. So finally following tonight's meeting the council will begin its summer recess. So tonight's council meeting will be the last and we will resume our regular meeting schedule on Tuesday September 1st. Um, we will be posting any special meetings um that may be happening over the summer, but this is our last regularly scheduled meeting.

Mayor, with that, I think those are all of my updates. A lot going on. Thank you. Now, we'll move on to presentations. Uh, Rachel, sorry about that. All right. Tonight, we have um we have our economic development uh and tourism. Actually, it's specific to our tourism update from Amanda Jacobs. She's going to be giving us a fourth quarter update. Good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of council. So, we're doing things a little bit different today.

Usually, it's an economic development update with just a few slides regarding tourism. Um, but we try to encourage ourselves to toot our horn sometimes. Um, and there's been some record-breaking numbers. So, we wanted to switch gears, um, especially as we enter the summer months to provide an update. So highlights our occupancy um from January to May 15th.

And so here you're going to see where it kind of fluctuates by by dates, but the 15th is that's when I had to start putting together my staff report and PowerPoint. We don't just do it um today. And during that period too, there was 15,000 um new unique visitors to the website. We'll get into this a little bit later, but one of our record-breaking was 1.1 million Facebook views of 14 million Wild Joy campaign impressions.

We produced 10 professional videos and then you'll see over 100,000 with our Fountain Live feed and Earth Cam. So sometimes if our visitors can't make it to Fountain Hills, um they'll reach out to us if the camera is dirty as they're chilling in Montana to say, "You need to clean this up. I love looking at the fountain." And so we'll get some of those um calls to Experience Fountain Hills, our viewership.

So again, I'll point out sometimes people are confused, but the left column is the top five in Arizona that are coming to the Experience Fountain Hills website. and the top five nationally, you'll you'll see hasn't um changed since the the previous quarter.

And then what helps with this too, even though this is tourism, is sometimes this also ties into business attraction and what the Greater Phoenix Economic Council um is doing and is in alignment with as we try to attract um businesses not just to Fountain Hills, but the region and the state. All right. So, we could be here all night, but wanted to highlight um one thing that we wanted to do this fiscal year is we really needed to update um and freshen up the content um on our website.

So, you'll see you may need to put readers on, but the left side you'll see that we highlighted with photos our hotels and there was a brief um paragraph. And so, what's next to it is we've completely revamped it. Um, I encourage people to go to our hotel and resorts page and now it's expanded. It adds Google reviews, what amenities are offered, and then there's also a button called make a reservation. So, a call to action that was launched in December.

And then you will see there was an 81% increase. And so what we can gather from that um as well as our CFO, we sometimes cheese each other internally, but um last month he told you um we were seeing some great numbers when it came to bed tax and our sales tax. And so sometimes he jokes maybe it's the economic development efforts and I say maybe here are the numbers.

Um but there could be a correlation and again selfishly we prioritized um something like hotels and resorts because selfishly we don't have a local primary property tax and we rely heavily on sales and bed tax. And then record-breaking this is a screenshot because we have dashboards but our town strategic plan you know as well as our community economic development strategy calls out that we want to attract younger families.

And so the last three months, again, this is the the first snapshot, but you'll see the last um three full months, we are targeting people in the 25 to 34 age. Um so what we're doing is working. And part of that again later on is our tagline is naturally Fountain Hills. We're naturally fun. We're naturally adventurous. We're naturally innovated.

And so what we've been doing is making sure that we have fresh content, that we're not doing stock photography, that people are seeing their neighbors, their business people, and that it's very authentic um and naturally found hills.

And then you'll see too um our Facebook we hit over a million Facebook views um reaching people um from across Arizona and we'll we're seeing too in our stats um Canada, Mexico, the United Kingdom and we mentioned this um previously um this is these are good targets um as we look to open the Dark Sky Discovery Center. Some brief updates on our Prop 202 grant. So this current fiscal year, which will end June 30th. Earlier this year, we did apply for Fort McDall Yavapai Nation grants.

We did not receive any funding, we have submitted a request for $20,000 for marketing efforts. We should know by July or August um if that will be awarded. Salt River Puma Maricopa Indian Community, the last um few years they've increased um the ask from 30,000 to 50,000. And so that is benefiting our music fest. And so that's um a photo of just this year. And then with the Salt River, they actually will invite the town to apply. So it's not open to everybody. It's just specific to the town.

And so we're waiting for that invitation. And Heiler River Indian Community, last year we attempted this. Um the town as far as economic development and tourism um was not awarded but the Fountain Hills Chamber of Commerce was and so we're serving this year and the next two years as a pass through and this year economic development chose not to apply again.

Sometimes it's a a stretch when it's not your neighbor, but our fire department um did apply and hopefully we'll hear um later in the summer. our Prop 302 grants. This year we secured over $76,000 and the estimate, and it's always an estimate. We'll see how things trend um and the state will report back to us, but we're anticipating to get over $90,000 and then it's it's very stringent um on what we can apply for. So again, print advertising, our visitors guide, video production, etc.

And then so we wanted to highlight this and I want to give a shout out. Um a couple of years ago our recreation program coordinator Skyler Thomas said, "Amanda, we have our internal marketing team, but it's like we really need to get in touch with a social media influencer." And so I asked her if she if she wanted to to help with that. Um, and then so she did a little bit of research and then we reached out um, several years ago to see if Lacy Kane, the founder, wanted to work with us.

And through grant funding um, we've been able to work with Lacy and Lacy's in-laws happen to be Fountain Hills residents. Um, so that is a nice um, connection, but we had to receive um, a report since this is tied to Prop 302 funding. And then she let us know there was um over 12 million impressions. So actually over 14 million impressions and this is the largest. And so I was like toot toot for a DMO. So a DMO um is a destination marketing organization.

So think of visit Phoenix, Visit Mesa where some of those giants, they're not connected to a town government. They are a separate convention um visitors bureau. And so again, we made a record. So the largest campaign in history. And then just want to point out too, we are always looking at the data. How do we change? Is what we're doing working? And so you'll see too based off of Tik Tok. And it's her Tik Tok. Again, the town does not have a Tik Tok.

So to have that on record um and her Instagram again, she is also hitting that 25 to 35 um age-olds where again they're looking at Fountain Hills. And so this past year we did stuff again on the fountain, us being number three in the world um as the the tallest. We also did um did you know about some of our restaurants and that there's not just American food, there's Cuban food, there's Mexican food.

Um and then because she likes us, she'll do some fun things um to also boost things and add other videos. And so, um, we just found out too, we'll get some more grant funding to work with her next year. And then again, we're talking about tourism, but again, with economic development, everything is interconnected. And so, you'll see too um that we were able to produce 10 professional videos. Those um are sliced up and put up on our Experience Fountain Hills social media.

It's also located on our video gallery under Experience Fountain Hills. And so our businesses appreciate it because all they have to do is is say yes um and and be ready. And then we have a contract with Daylight Film. So Andrew Day, who is a local business and resident. And then you'll see too, I noticed when I started here, um our photographs needed some help. Um they were a bit outdated. And so we've been really trying to get fresh um content.

And so we've been also doing that for the businesses. After we do the initial launch, we also share some of those photographs. And so again, in the interest of time, I won't read everything to you. And then want to give a shout out to Night Sky Tourist. Um so again, that is Vicky Dirkson. Um who is a resident. Again, when I started, it has been over four years. Can you believe it? um we were being very reactive yet we had this international dark sky designation.

And so for the last two years um she has helped um for free to put together the international observe the moon night um in partnership with experience fountain hills as well as the Geminid meteor shower watch party. She also has a partnership with Adaro um between October Mayish when again it's not so toasty outside. And then you'll see here she also does private events and then you can see 80% um she gathers um our visitors that are coming to to Fountain Hills.

And then she gave her last um hike report um and then you'll see so she specifically asked we had had a recent meeting of just where are you coming from? Where are you hearing about this? And so these folks had directly noticed the information on our Experience Fountain Hills website and can see that they're visitors. So there's that Montana again. They're having a girls weekend here in Fountain Hills. And then want to call out some of our conferences.

Um, we've been trying to work really hard with our community center as well as event organizers that if you are having a conference in Fountain Hills, you need to coordinate with the experience fountain hills because if you don't have a room block, we have no idea that you are tied to that event. It just seems like you're a leisure traveler or if you select business, it's just business and there's no other data. And so we coordinated months back with the Museum Association of Arizona.

They had 87 people registered and then we helped secure room blocks with two of our hotels. The owner did say of Spark by Hilton. Unfortunately, um, no one stayed there, but at least two at Fountain Park. And then want to put in a plug with our Madame Clerk. Um so the Arizona Municipal Clerks conference um they have been hosting that conference here in Fountain Hills for actually 15 years and we've struggled the last few years but you all know our madame clerk Bev.

She knew who to speak to to try to actually get a room block. Adaro stepped up at a wonderful rate of $144. So you can't beat that. And then also just communicating with their the clerks because they like to stay in Fountain Hills. They were a bit confused too with the the Scottsdale name and so I said it's a branding thing. They do um actually they are located in Fountain Hills. We collect that sales tax. So once we know more numbers um we'll report back um in the fall.

And then this is just again some advertising that we're doing um in magazines. Sometimes our residents say I don't see any advertising. And then I always tell them no because I'm not targeting you. you're already here. So, some key takeaways um is again we've reached record audiences. Also, things don't happen, change doesn't happen overnight. Um so, I appreciate everyone's patience.

Um it takes time to to build up um our marketing again, the video, the photography, the grants have helped, but do want to say the AOT Prop 302 sunsets in 2031. I've already told the CFO and town manager, we'll be thinking ahead already of next year of making sure that we're not losing certain funding. So, for example, our annual visitors guide that everyone loves that is 100% paid by Prop 302.

So, starting to think ahead and do want to say this council and a council's past, you guys have been very supportive um of approving budget requests um for marketing. So, thank you. I appreciate that. And then just looking ahead, we're going to continue what um we've been planning to do. And then just one hot off the press.

Um earlier this calendar year in January, um I met with Joe Bill and Jeff Yazetta of the International Dark Sky Discovery Center and said, "Okay guys, we need to start gearing up. What is our messaging to the domestic and international travelers?" And they looked at me and said, "Amanda, we're trying to open the building." Um and so I'm like, "I understand." And so a couple weeks ago, um, in very rapid order, I said, "Would you be okay? Can we partner together?

We feel like it's a win-win if we put in for a $15,000 grant um to have a third party work with us on that exercise because in short order, we are going to need that." So again, we're not being reactive. We are strategically positioning ourselves. And so we were awarded $15,000 um to do that. So, super excited and so we will let you know um the outcome of those efforts. And with that, Mr. Mayor, happy to answer any questions. Thank you, Amanda.

I don't mean to put you on the spot, but if we can go back to the record-breaking performance, and that's on um social media, Facebook and Instagram. Is there any like one or two special things that they're clicking on that that is um making it a record-breaking performance or is is it just mostly all the pictures or whatever is being posted? It's mostly all of it, but you'll see we've been targeting a lot of what does extremely well is of course just the fountain and then the events.

That is that is like the the top three of people getting super excited. Um and then our last car show with concourse in the hills also reaching out um to legitimate videographers of Kate, can we share your your drone footage? And some of that is just it just skyrockets. So basically it's all the uh the bouquet of events that we have and the attendance etc that you guys are posting and attracting more visitors and looking to you know a younger medium age medium. Correct. Correct. Okay.

Thank you very much. Yes. You're welcome. So, Mr. Mayor, Director Jacobs, um what tools are you lacking? I mean, is there anything that we can provide to you? Uh, are there events that you need to happen? What more do you need? Mr. Mayor, Council Member Skillorn, we just adopted the budget. Um, so right now, I would I would say we don't need anything just yet. Um, but come this fall, maybe we will. We maybe we'll reach out. Um, part of it, too. You guys received the the memo.

I'm operating solo um in my department. Um so some of it then is is resources that you know you could dedicate money but if you don't have the human capital um behind it um that becomes a challenge. So I appreciate the question. We'll give it some thought, but in the immediate, we have the tools. And again, I'll say from council members past and then this body, you guys have approved several hundred,000 towards marketing. And Mr. Mayor, director, and I'm kind of specific.

I mean, would you appreciate more events? Um, you know, currently, I'm not sure. It sounds to me like, you know, like um like Mike Pelton is very helpful, but you know, is are you do you have enough tools to do what you need in house or I know there are some people that are going out, but you know, what more do we want? Mr. Mayor, Council Member Skiilicorn, um one item, um but again, we've sort of pun intended check please.

Um we have in our community economic development strategy to work with a national um event promoter. We'll say too because there are so many events and so not just put on by our community services department but other third parties um then it becomes to is there availability and the staff resources to to support it. Um but we're always working with the town manager as well as the community services director of to to evaluate um certain projects.

So last year we were considering something but again their window didn't match with us because things were booked and Mr. Mayor Director last followup I promise. I think he's going to ask me again. What should I say? Council member, you you reminded me like because I know we've talked about, you know, some sort of like outs outside uh event planner coming to us and doing an event. So, it sounds like you're open to that. Uh do they have the tools I mean that they can contact you?

Do do they know that we're open for business? That's really the question. I mean, if you wanted to have an event here, let's say you want to do your community event or uh you know, you just want to get a permit and run out the park and do some big event that the town would benefit from. Are are we talking to the right people? Are we are they people are aware that we're open for business? And so, Mr.

Mayor, Council Member Skilorn, the answer is yes, and they've been willing participants to to come to the table. Thank Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, thanks for the report. You're welcome. When we see record-breaking performance, uh, Instagram breaking 30-day records, um, boy, this doesn't happen in a vacuum. This this is a lot of hard work, and I know you've been putting in long hours, and so I want to thank you for this great report.

I also want to thank you for covering tourism tonight and and expanding your normal report because as we know that um small business is the economic engine of Fountain Hills and tourism drives small business and so I encourage you to to continue with the tourism. Keep updating us on what's going on there and keep being innovative and your techniques because I'm really thrilled to to see these numbers.

Um, lastly, and this is isn't a town deal, it's a dark sky deal, but my number one question is when are they going to open those doors? Then you you mentioned the the bills are like, "Yeah, we're trying to get the doors open." Can can you give us an estimate on when that's going to happen? So, Mr. Mayor, Council Member Calvary, the last report they gave us um in their newsletter was January 2026. Um, as of last week, I spoke with our building official.

We have not received their plans um for the next phase. So, again, as as soon as we receive those um we'll get rocking and rolling and hope to approve those. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you, Mayor. Um Amanda, I just wanted to say I have a unique perspective in that I get to work with you every day. Um I also previously in different roles have had a little toe in tourism and what you've done has been really fantastic.

So thank you for what you do each day even with a very very very small team. So you've really done a lot saying thank you. Thank you. No clapping. Don't get me in trouble. I keep hitting the wrong button. Sorry. Um, do you keep metrics on the various events as far as restaurants, hotel? I see you do the hotel thing, but do you keep the metrics? So, kind of like what Councilman Skullorn was saying, it would guide us in a certain direction.

Maybe kite flying is not quite as productive as Irishfest, and I don't mean to pick on those two, but do you keep those type of metrics as well? So, help us next time maybe to help you, Mr. Mayor.

Council member Watts that is a little harder specifically with the restaurants one the sales tax again is proprietary so even to me so a lot of people think that I have that that is just the the CFO I don't get to see those numbers what we will do um and a few months prior council member Larabe joined me on a business retention site visit and so some of those site visits we're hearing directly with some of the the businesses and I'll They depending on the restaurant or the retailer, it's very mixed of we love this and then some people are like, well, people have issues with parking and so they receive no benefit.

So, it's really hit or miss. We're starting um so for instance, just thinking ahead and what council member Calvanus is, we've been pushing again with some of the restaurants. So, during the summer, people like to reduce their hours. They like to take a week or two off to let us know so that we're not sending people and then they're closed. Working with them, too. We've made observations where they did contact us and they're like, "We love your help." And then we're monitoring.

Okay, you let us know, but you haven't changed it on your website or Google Maps. That we can't do anything about. We can ed educate them, but then it's it's up to them. And so some of it's through um site visits if again. So, the previous month um our CFO um acknowledged just seeing that sales tax um increase. So, at the restaurants is a bit harder. Council member Watts. Okay. Well, thank you for that. It does look like we're going in the right direction. So, nice job. Thanks. Thank you.

Everybody asked so many nice questions already and we have a full night tonight. I just want to say thank you. You're welcome. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And there has been some great questions and it actually led me to my next one. And I kind of wonder about the economic development working with finance a little bit. And I know that I assume at least that the sales tax information is not immediate. Like we don't know a week later, oh look, that weekend was really strong, right? It's delayed.

But I kind of wonder when we do get that information and then I if it's possible to see it by date or weekend or something and then the back date and what happened then and I really think that would be a very valuable thing because ultimately we are doing these events because we love the town and we're providing something for our citizens but we also know that sales tax is a a crucial part of our budget and successful events and sales leads to nicer things.

So that's I just want to make sure we're working together and I we don't need an answer right now, but there's something to think about going forward is to backdate and go, hey, that was a very successful time for us. What else was going on in the town? And uh and maybe there's also some things that we put a lot of energy into that don't provide a lot of those resources. And I'm not saying we don't do it because we still love community events, but we the metrics are important.

this important that we are looking at something and we actually can make those decisions. Thank you. It's been it's been a great discussion. Thank you for your efforts. You can see the results and all the hard work that you put in there. I'll throw out a little teaser. Can you use some covered parking? That's a separate agenda item, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Okay. Now we'll move on to um our proclamation. Our vice mayor is going to handle the proclamation for July as park and recreation month.

Vice Mayor, thank you. Mayor, whereas the town of Fountain Hills is committed to enhancing the quality of life for residents through exceptional parks, trails, recreational programs, and open space. And whereas parks and recreation promote health and wellness, provide opportunities for active lifestyles, strengthen community connections, and encourage residents of all ages to enjoy the natural beauty of Fountain Hills.

And whereas parks and recreation services or service, yeah, services contribute to the environmental, social, and economic vitality of our community and help make Fountain Hills a desirable place to live, work, and visit.

And whereas and now therefore, Mayor Jerry Fidell, together with the town council of the town of Fountain Hills, Arizona, do hereby proclaim July 2026 as Parks and Recreation Month and encourage all residents to recognize and celebrate the important role that parks, recreation facilities, programs, volunteers, and staff play in making Fountain Hills a vibrant and healthy community. Kevin. Kevin, come on up. And now we'll move on with the uh mayor's business spotlight.

And tonight it's Gray's Craze. This month it's my pleasure to recognize Gray's Craze as our mayor's business spotlight. A business that has become a wonderful addition to Fountain Hills, the Fountain Hills community, Grace Crace specializes in beautifully crafted chakuri boards and grazing boxes that bring people together for celebrations, business gatherings, and everyday occasions. Their philosophy is simple.

Every moment is worth celebrating, and great foods help create meaningful connections. Each board is thoughtfully arranged with fresh, highly high quality ingredients and designed to deliver the wow factor while making entertainment easy and stress-free. Whether you're hosting a community event, business meeting, client appreciation gathering, family celebration, or simply treating yourself, Grace Craze offers a convenient and memorable cing catering experience.

The town has had the opportunity on many occasions to enjoy Gray's Craze offerings at several council and community uh events where they have consistently delivered exceptional quality preservation presentation and service. While Grace Craze is a part of an international brand with locations across the United States, Canada, France, and Australia. Our Fountain Hills location is proudly owned and operated by Steve Weberman.

Steve's commitment to customer service and community involvement has helped make Grace Craze a valued member of our local business community. We appreciate Steve's investment in Fountain Hills and his dedication to providing a unique dining and catering experience for residents, businesses, and visitors alike. On behalf of the town of Fountain Hills, congratulations to Grace Craze on being recognized as this month's mayor's business spotlight. Uh Steve, if you're here, come on down, please. Hi.

Hi everyone. If you haven't had our board, please order one. If you've had one, I've hope you enjoyed it. Uh we're doing really well. Um, we've actually because of our Fountain Hill success, we've opened up locations in Desert Ridge and Deer Valley Air Park. So, we're doing quite well. And, uh, you know, we appreciate everything. We celebrate everything. And come on, stop in. We've got art in our place, too.

We've got a chutery manufacturer that's put stuff in our place, actual boards, not just the food and meat like we do, but also we have a local artist that's uh putting stuff in our place as well. So, stop in, say hello, and say hi to Susan. Thank you. Okay. And now we'll move on with our consent agenda. Can I get a motion? Motion to accept a consent agenda. Second. We have a motion and a second. Can I get a roll call, please? Town clerk. Council member Skiilicorn. Yes. Council member McMahon. I.

Council member Calavianis. I. Council member Watts. Yes. Council member Larby. Yes. And Vice Mayor and Mayell. I. Mayor 70. Thank you.

We'll move on to our regular agenda item A, which is consider consideration and possible action regarding the town's direct report employment contract amendments and updated agreements as applicable for the town manager, town attorney, town prosecutor, and presiding judge, town magistrate, and authorizing the mayor, town manager, attorney, and town clerk to take all actions necessary to carry out the intent with uh town manager.

Mayor, just to be brief, um these positions report directly to the town council. Um therefore, any direction regarding these um need to come from this entire body, which is why they are on the agenda tonight. Um specifically, the direction was to bring these contracts forward to update and align them with the fiscal year. So, any further questions? We do have staff here if we if there's any discussion. With that, I'll turn it over to you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Uh, I do have some thoughts and comments on this and on this particular one. And I think there are other people have questions also, but specifically there's a few items.

one is or a couple of them are the attorney oh sorry the prosecutor uh and the judge and this even though this is just a more of a we're giving reviews to these individuals we're not changing the contract uh but I just want to point out do do you have a specific question councilman not this time but I mean I have comments on Town attorney, we take questions first and then we go to comment cards and then we have discussion. Yes, I do.

Um, I noticed in this agenda item there all four individual employment contracts are grouped into one. I think personally I think that these are very very important. Um, you know, one for the prosecutor, one for the judge, one for Rachel, the town attorney, and one for the law firm. And I think that we they're distinct enough that we should vote separately on each one of them, even though they're one agenda item. So, I'd like to make a motion that we do that if a motion is necessary.

Yeah, I I would I would second that. I think A vote on each individual um item would would be preferable than than an all or nothing. Oh, thank you. I was just wanted to second the motion. So, we have a motion and a second. Um can we get a uh roll call vote on that to to separate these items? It would be well technically it would be four separate motions to then app I guess it the motion is I I think the motion's out of order. I mean it's not pro it needs to be rephrased.

So the motion would be to approve each individually but not necessarily break them apart. Why it out order? I'm sorry it's not properly worded. I mean we you can't break apart an agenda item in the way that you've asked for it to be broken out. Tell me how to do it please. Yeah.

So you can make a motion to approve one agenda item, but we're we still haven't gone to discussion yet or comment cards, but you can make that motion and you can then make another motion to approve a different part of the of the different contract. So you make them a sort four separate motions on each one. So when is that happening? When can I do that? You can make that motion now, but we would still need discussion um before you would vote on it.

Well, then I make the motion four different times. I make the motion to look at the one motion at a time. I make a motion to look at each conduct individually, the prosecutors individually, the judges individually, the town managers individually, and the the town attorneys individually. That's still the motion is still I said four separate motions to approve each contract individually like say so a motion to approve the town prosecutors. So moved if you want me to wait to do it I will. Yeah.

Thank you. Do we have any comment cards? Yes, mayor. We do. We have seven that will be speaking. We did receive six cards online. Five wanted to let you know that they will not be speaking. Five wanted to let you know they were for it and one wanted to let you know they were against. First speaker will be Liz Gildersleeve followed by Linda Somo, Shelby Blacker, and Susan De Janeiro. Good evening, Hills resident.

Um, I am in favor of approving the contractual amendment for the town attorney for a number of reasons. First, since I've lived in Fountain Hills, Jen Wright is the first town attorney who's actually been committed to protecting the town. That's been refreshing. For example, she provided the sound legal advice and protections to strengthen the ordinance for group homes, also known as sober homes.

The added protections of insurance requirements and inspections was something residents demanded four years ago. Instead, four years ago, we got a watered down version and weak legal advice from our last town attorney. But Ms. Wright, to her credit, figured out a legal way to strengthen the ordinance, which consequently provided neighborhoods and homeowners with better protection and more recourse. So, thank you.

Second, Miss Wright has had to manage the daily barrage of petty lawsuits and orchestrated complaints from some of our most ligious residents. Their clear goal has been to weaken her resolve and cause continued chaos in our town while at the same time preaching civility and collaboration. Finally, and most recently, Ms. Wright has had to protect the town's logo from misuse and copyright infringement. It required the town to hire outside council, who, by the way, agreed with Ms.

Wright's legal opinion and use of a cease and desist letter that was sent to all political candidates, advising them that the use of the town logo would be inappropriate on political materials. Seems self-explanatory to most. Everyone complied except one mayoral candidate. Unfortunately, now Fountain Hills taxpayers are on the hook, excuse me, are on the hook to pay the unnecessary $18,000 legal bill of that outside attorney.

So, bottom line, uh I would prefer that you approve the amendment for the town attorney for another year, re-evaluate next year as you should for all employment contracts, and move on. Thank you. Next speaker. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, Town Council. Uh my name is Linda Somo and I am a Fountain Hills resident.

Um, I'm not against the item itself, but I would support you uh separating out the various offices because I am against giving an exorbitant increase to one member and that is the town attorney. Um, I have seen nothing that she has done that would warrant an 11% increase on her current salary. Um, which is 7 and a half or 7.6% over and above the 3.3% that has been recommended for other town employees. Um, I don't know what she has done that would warrant that type of increase.

Plus, when she came to this position, she lacked experience in u town law. Uh, and I don't know that she's gained any since then. At least I haven't seen it evident in your town meetings. Um, and the previous speaker mentioned that she, you know, uh, has had to deal with lawsuits. Well, part of that is because she advised the town council to do away with the ability for town members to file an ex uh, ethics violation.

If they had not done away with that, many of the lawsuits that have been filed would not have been necessary. And plus, she works for a firm that actually sued the town twice and lost both times. So I I don't see, you know, she has, at least the firm she works for has caused um taxpayers money in the past. So I would ask you to separate that out from the others and to reconsider an 11% increase for the town attorney. Thank you. Good evening, Mr. Mayor, Council.

Shelby Blacker, Fountain Hills Town Resident. With a tight job market, as we've seen when another state hires away town staff, retaining quality staff is a real challenge. The town manager position is one of those highly competitive jobs that require a skill set that can fill a warehouse. We have that person here in Fountain Hills and I for one think she's worth her weight and gold. Please keep Rachel Goodwin's pay competitive with other Maricopa County cities, our size, and approve her raise.

As for the town attorney, Jen Wright, and her firm's contract, I feel equally the same regarding her value to the town. What are troubling to me are comments online and Facebook trying to devalue her worth. And by who? It's the same people who are trying to bury her in lawfare paperwork, ridiculous notice of claims, and more. The misinformation fed to the public is maddening. Case in point, there's two Facebook accounts chatting.

The question, didn't they fire our previous attorney who had served us for many years for supposedly overcharging? That was a quote. But isn't it general knowledge that Arensson, the former town attorney, quit? So, there's the question. But in reality, a question is a misleading statement when it's framed as an inquiry, but actually contains an unproven assumption designed to manipulate the listener or force a a specific narrative.

Known as a loaded question, this tactic nudges the respondent into an answer that inadvertently confirms something false or negative. It certainly prevents the poster from being charged with defamation, but the damage is done. Mission accomplished. When the very next day, a different account on Facebook speaks to a friend saying, "This could all have been avoided if we had retained our previous town attorney." The poster is referring to Aronson again, the guy who quit.

This is the type of nonsense our town attorney has to deal with and spend some of her time on. How many extra hours does she take? I don't know. But what I do know is that it's shameful to see how many people putting up signs asking to bring back civility do exactly the opposite every chance they get while also encouraging one another to bury the town in foyas and legal maneuvering while claiming first amendment rights.

I feel if they cared about the town so much, they would actually act civil and stop the wasted time and lawfare. Please approve the raise for our town council's employment contract. She deserves every penny. Thank you. Good evening. You can hear me? Okay. Sorry, I have to move this because I'm short. Mayor, council members, I'm Susan Djaro, candidate for town council and seven-year resident.

I regularly come to to council meetings and part of that is prepping by reading the agenda, reading the staff reports and goodness, some of them are long but well worth it. This one is just missing a little something I wanted to address. Each of the salary increases has a text that says why and what the raise is that is before the council.

There is text about the town prosecutor and the presiding judge that they are under contracts and are contractually due the same 3.8 increase given to the staff. There is information about trying to standardize the town manager's salary and I suspect as Shelby pointed out it's to try to stop her from shopping elsewhere. I applaud this.

There is even information about the goal of standardizing the timing of these contracts to standardize the review process and increase the efficiency for the council, which again I applaud. But there's no information in the actual staff report about the town attorney increase over the 3.3 CPI. I am not suggesting that the town attorney doesn't deserve a raise. I don't know. There was no information in there.

The difference that we are talking about is a $7,000 a year raise versus a $24,000 a year raise, an additional $16,000 a year's increase. So, of course, I went looking for support for this because I wanted to find it and I couldn't. So, correct me if I'm wrong, but the council is on record as saying that they want to save money. They want to pinch pennies. the last attorney left being paid 234,000 and now you're looking at an increase of additional 6,000 on top of that.

And to quote a rep a Republican Senator Durkin of Illinois, a billion here, a billion there. Pretty soon you're talking about real money. Well, we don't have a billion dollars and we need to watch every dollar. So, all I'm asking is some justification as to why it's above the 3.3% or just stick with the 3.3%. Lastly, the only thing I don't know if you're all aware of this, but we ran out of comment cards before the meeting started and the meeting started early.

So, I'm not sure you got comments from everybody and I know that you all want to hear from the town. So, thank you, Larry Myers, Beth Culp, and Dave Long. Mayor, Council, Larry Myers, and the next time you meet, it will be 45 years. So, I'd like to see these all separated out as well, one one by one. I couldn't even speak to the judge and the prosecutor. I don't I don't know how many people they judge and how many people they prosecute. So that's your business.

What I will speak to is the town manager who's done a fine job stepping in from somebody who was not doing such a fine job who resigned, thank goodness. And the town attorney who resigned wasn't fired. So the other residents uh stated all of the misgivings of Mr. Aronson on his way to the exit door. Uh it wasn't mentioned the 5G which he told us we'd be sued on that that we're working on now.

And then he hid the third party attorney's uh work from not only the residents but his own planning and zoning commission. So where where do you go from the bottom? Well, you only go up. So, let's review the numbers so we're not blurting out falsehoods. Mr. Aronson left at 234K a year. He was due a raise had he been here to 240 by his contract. The current town attorney came in at $218,000 a year, saving the town 7.16% 16k for the first year. So by raising her to where Mr.

Aronson would be demanding to be via his contract at 240, she's actually getting a 10% raise. That's what she's getting, 10%. and she saved us 7.16% in the first year of her tenure. So along with that, it appears with all the normal work that she does, she may be overworked and underpaid. I don't know how many hours she puts in, but I do know there's a inordinate amount of foyas now with the left uh lawfare, the lawsuits, the notice of claims, the ag complaint filings.

And so all of that stuff which never existed for Mr. Aronson because there was a different administration sitting on the deis back then and we don't do that stuff except when it's absolutely representing the people all of the people. So I would say separating them all out. It's your business. The town manager seems to be deserving of a raise. It's in her contract. uh judge and prosecutor couldn't speak to them. Town attorney I think has done a fine job handling all of this.

Um and for the amount of the raise doesn't seem even abnormal to me since she came in and saved the town money in the first year of her tenure. And that's all I had to say. Thank you very much. Approve uh at will. Beth Culp and then Dave Long.

This discussion has been very illuminating because I think it really puts us where we are right now where we are so polarized and it's the left this and it's lawfare there this and it's reinventing history about I can't there were so many ethics complaints filed against Brenda and Jenny and Peggy that it was incredible. Now, I want to talk just real frankly about this whole issue with uh our town attorney. First of all, she came in in experienced.

She did not Aaron Arnson had at least a decade's worth of experience in municipal law. She had zero. She had zero. in the time that she has been here, you're I feel like you're blaming the victim when we file lawsuits and open meeting complaints because open meeting laws have been violated. Clearly, they have been violated. Now, are they very slow in getting the resolutions to us? Yes. Does it take a long time for notices of claim to turn into lawsuits? Yes.

But the fact is that there is no question that ultimately it will be determined that there have been open meeting law violations time after time. Civil rights were violated when we were the whole group was evicted from the town hall. The new rules of procedure are rife with unconstitutional provisions. And most recently, Jennifer Wright did I think the most egregious thing that I have ever seen a town attorney do.

She sent a private citizen a seasoned desist letter for I having on her Facebook page maybe a tenth of an inch, a quarter of an inch. If you look closely, you could might see Brenda's supposedly infringing logo. That is protected political speech. Not only was it not a violation of the LAN Act, it was she's not a competitor, she wasn't a candidate, she wasn't offering anything for sale, and she was sent a cease and desist letter.

She has an absolute constitutional right to put candidate signs up, and that is not an infringement. So, increase in open meeting law complaints, increase in lawsuits. She was right in the middle right in the middle of the $9.25 million notice of claim that the developer had. She was accused of getting involved in secret meetings. And I have to look as a lawyer. I looked at that and I thought, what was she thinking? She is inexperienced.

She is very very politically aligned with the majority on this council and the majority who are speaking in favor. All you have to do is go look at her ex page. And more importantly recently, and I think this is an abomination, she ghost wrote a letter for our mayor that was sent to the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors that supported Justin Heapes badly against the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors. And it's full of misinformation.

And I don't think anybody on this council even knew that Mayor Fidell wrote that letter. Anybody know? This is another open meetings law violation and it's going to show up. And if you want to call that lawfare, I call it trying to enforce our rights and our laws. Next speaker. Motion to approve as drafted. Second. What's the motion, please? A motion to approve as drafted. Um, we talked before that I was going to make motions and I would like the opportunity to make those motions.

You can ask him to amend the motion or you can ask him to re remove the I think he's doing it on purpose which is a this is Robert's rules of order ma'am we don't follow Robert's rules of order we follow our own rules of order the state and the state legislators and Robert's rules comes like third fourth or something it's in the writing procedure it's also in the even in documents that you sent to us we have to deal with the motions that's on the table but I think they're allowed for discussion Well, then is it time for discussion, mayor?

Thank you. I would like the opportunity to speak, please. Thank you very much. I would like these um items separated, but um I sincerely doubt that council member Skiilicorn will be gracious enough to do that even though he talked some about the prosecutor and the judge because if they're together, then we're forced to vote one way or the other. So, I can vote no for everybody if I disagree with one person getting raised or we can separate them.

So, you wanted to see I knew you would do that because it's typical. Um, I support the raises for the people that have earned them. I don't believe that the law firm based on my experience and my interactions and the and the work product and what I've seen, I don't believe that the Lakota law firm deserves an 11.6% raise or a raise period. I haven't seen the um evidence after more than a year of service. I haven't seen s sufficient progress in knowledge of municipal law.

um she put on the agenda to take away your right to talk called to the public, change the ethics rules. So now in instead of filing ethics complaints against us and holding us accountable, we're now seeing a plethora of lawsuits. That's the only way you can hold us accountable. And that's costing the town literally thousands of dollars. I just cannot support without going into more detail.

In addition to what Beth and Linda and a couple other people have said, I don't support a raise and I don't think it's deserved. Aaron Arnson never asked for a raise and he wasn't going to ask for a raise. So, accordingly, my vote, I want it to reflect that um I don't support her raise time. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I do want to thank the vice mayor for putting together the reviews. Uh it is a a step that unfortunately, you know, the you know, previous councils didn't do.

So really that initiative is really appreciated and is important and it's really good feedback uh for everyone involved to, you know, actually have something to go to. Now, specifically, uh, I'm going to talk about the prosecutor and the judge. And, you know, sadly, I get a lot of messages from my constituents, and it really sounds like Fountain Hills is developing this reputation of being really soft on crime.

And really, and what it really specifically comes to is I get numerous, numerous complaints uh about vagrancy and violations of our urban camping ordinance. And you know, we revamped our urban camping ordinance a few years ago. And you know, I want to say that uh it I don't remember if it passed unanimously, but there's a second one that did not pass. Uh it failed 34 and some people just dis voted for it and some people dest vote against it.

Um but the sad thing is is that even the one that's on the books is not being enforced. You know, when I look into the the records of proceedings, I I'm seeing that we have individuals with dozens and dozens of complaints and serious complaints, including assaulting uh uh sheriff deputies, and they're not being enforced. And this is a serious concern.

I mean, I've got residents that complain about this, and you know, residents send me messages uh about like homeless people uh yelling and berating them. Well, if I was the attorney or it's not the I'm sorry, the prosecutor and the judge, that is not a work product that I would be proud of. Uh I get messages from my constituents of uh homeless people running around naked on public property.

If I was the prosecutor or judge, that would not be a work product that I would be that I would be proud of. Uh I get messages from constituents uh with human feces on the street from homeless people. Uh if I was the prosecutor and judge, that is not a work product that I would be proud of. And if I could vote uh to leave those, get rid of those people, I would. But this is all tied together. If I'm I'm sorry. Well, tell me that was over time. Thank you, mayor.

I just want to set the record straight that when Aaron started with our town, it was 180,000 for that first year, not 234. So with after 11 months of being with us, the council voted to increase his monthly pay $4,500. That's more than double what we're asking for here. Also, I would like to ask our town attorney about your m municipal experience. Chair, may I may I ask her that? You may. Um, yes. So, I have previously worked for the Rose Law Group. I've worked for the Institute for Justice.

I've worked for the Goldwater Institute. all which specialize in municipal law and also my elections law experience is municipally includes municipal law. Thank you for that correction that was a mistake before and then also maybe I'm for uh not remembering this correctly but I believe we dealt with the ethics complaint when Aaron was here because there was a complaint against Peggy and Brenda and we undid some others and didn't we do away with the ethics complaints under Aaron? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Try to keep it under two minutes. Um, yeah, I I just think once again what we're all seeing here tonight is bad government and bad public policy being set. We have a number of employees that we would give raises to. In this case, it's one sizefits all. There's four people. It's not just cost of living raises. If they were, that would be a pretty easy decision. I'd say, "Sure, give all cost of living raises." That would be no problem to me.

But I want to give Rachel her raise. I don't want to give Jen her raise. Um, and and it's for a very simple reason. Um, my concern is that the proposal to raise a town attorney's compensation is just too soon. She hasn't even been with us for a year, unlike the previous firm that we had a consistent six-year term, and we had no raises. Um, it was a six-year term, flat fee contract, and this served us very well. This firm has been, like I said, with under us for a year.

This council should be prudent and maintain the original terms. They put filled out the RFP. They looked at the workload. They knew what they were getting into and within a year now they're all of a sudden saying that we're not getting paid enough money and they're they're going to get more than what than had we kept the original attorney. This part of this was sold as cost savings like Larry Meyer said. Well, within less than a year, there's no cost savings. It's going to be more expensive.

This council should aim for long-term stability and fair treatment. But this is too soon. And lastly, in my 30 seconds that I'd like to give is I've received a number of cards, comments, emails, and and they say the same thing that Miss Janeiro said. you know, everything else in the contract package. There were reasons and justifications for why we're doing what we're doing. With the town attorney, it was just let's just give her more money. Let's give the Lotto Law Firm more money.

There was no justification. Let's just give them more money. I don't know why we have to give them more money. They applied for the job. They have the job. They're they're doing the job. Um I think it's too early for a raise. You know, we're talking about roads first and fixing the roads.

um why why don't we pinch pennies here and just say you know stick to your original contract terms if if it's unsatisfactory then you know you can go elsewhere and we'll put another RF out time thank you thank you mayor um maybe I imagined it but we went through extensive review number of hours re analyzing the data that was relevant to the town town attorney the town prosecutor the town manager and the town attorney.

So I don't I maybe maybe it wasn't wasn't in the same meeting but the validation we looked at we went through it indeed clearly we didn't share enough of it with you but that doesn't mean it isn't justified and how we can approve one significant raise for the town manager that exceeds this the 3.3% CPI and complain about a different rate for the town man the town attorney makes no sense to me. you're talking out of both sides. Makes no sense whatsoever.

So, we go all the way back to the way back when we asked for uh quotes from a variety of legal firms. These these were some of the most cost competitive rates that we started with with a basis of the hours that Pierce Coleman provided that turned out to be erroneous. They weren't they were incomplete. They didn't keep good records of what they were doing. Maybe they should have. So I fully initially I was against the raises.

I'm now in support of the raises because sometimes you have to make it market justifications, market adjustments in order to get the quality of work that you want to get done, the the order of magnitude that you want to get the work done. So now I'm for it and that's where my vote's going to be. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

And Councilman uh Watts made a a good point about you know maybe we didn't communicate with the public but I do point out because of you know Arizona law we you know we are not allowed to uh have discussions about employment ma matters in an open meeting they have to be an executive session and this was discussed and these were debated and uh this you know spending more money I mean but we're you know pressing nickels together and trying to save everything we And uh that's something that we discuss and uh unfortunately the public's not preving that information but that is not the fault of anyone at the dis um that's you know it's typically employment matters are a private thing until we have to vote on them and that's just why just the fact that it is uh I don't think that there was anything to raise salaries or anything like that um it was just something had to be discussed in executive session because of law and I just just want to point that out And I I think that our employees and the people working for us are are present a value.

And you know, frankly, I not only should this be a great place to work, but the people should be fairly compensated. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, yeah, it's it's funny that we all of a sudden we found consensus uh tonight and I'm just thrilled about that, but it seems like everybody up here.

It seems at least a couple of the players have said that we didn't do a good job and we weren't transparent and uh we would uh have done better to communicate with the the people in this town, the people that are paying these salaries um why why this was warranted. And so there's a really simple easy fix to this. Um let's vote vote on three. Let's vote on the judge, the prosecutor, and the the town manager, and let's bump the vote um for the town attorney off to the first session in in the fall.

I mean, there's no no harm done. Uh we can put a new package together and we can tell you, the people why why this is warranted and then you can decide and then we can have another council. We can have another session. we can have another call to the public and we can determine was was the salary for the town attorney warranted or not.

And so it seems to me that since many of the players here said that that this was not done transparency, you know, let's just fix it tonight and let's vote on three and then let's put the other one off and get more let's dig into it and get more information as why why this is justified. Sorry to have to repeat myself, but some people apparently don't hear what I said earlier. The first at Aaron Arnson was here for 11 months when we raised him $4,500 a month from $180,000 to 234,000.

So, yes, there was a raise. And if any of you didn't hear that or want to know the the facts on that, um, our CFO verified that for me or you can foyer that to know that is the truth. He did get a raise and it was a quite a significant raise. And our attorney will, this attorney now will be here for a year in 15 days. So saying she hasn't been here a year, that's kind of bologoney. And the raise will happen in when she's here a year.

I think um everybody's had a chance to weigh in so I'm going to weigh in now too. I don't think it's bad public policy or bad procedure. I think we're sitting here today because of what happened with the former attorney and there's a couple of council members on this dis right now that drove him literally out of this town. He resigned. He wasn't fired and that's the result. We're dealing with that right now.

And when the uh RFP was done for a new attorney, I don't think that it was included in that job description was 125 foyer requests and dozens of lawsuits and notice of claim. That takes a lot of extra work, a lot of extra time, a lot of extra preparation. I'm also going to repeat something that I said at the mayor's forum. This town is one of the most efficient towns in the East Valley. And you want to know why?

It's because we It's because of the joint work between our finance team, our town manager and our town attorney. Our town attorney now has uncovered stuff on certain projects in this town and everybody sitting up here on this dis. So to say she's not qualified and she hasn't done her job is a big big misnomer. And you can shake your head all you want. It's the truth. So, I'm in favor of this. There's a motion and a second on the table right now. Can I get a roll call vote, please?

Mayor, can you confirm for me who has a second? Vice Mayor. Thank you. Council member McMahon. I vote for Rachel's. I vote for the prosecutors and the judges. And I don't vote for the town attorney. It's been since they're bunched together, I have to say yes. Council member Watts. Hi. Council member Skellicorn. Yes. Council member Calabianis. Nay. Council member Larby. I. Vice Mayor Earl. I. And Mayor Fidel. I. I'm going to change my vote today. Thank you. Mayor 52. Thank you.

Vice Mayor, will you turn your mic off? Thank you. Peggy, will you turn your mic off? Peggy, turn your mic off. Thank you. Okay, we'll move on to uh item number B, consideration and possible action regarding the proposed energy savings capital project for parking shade structure and solar panels for town hall campus. Rachel mayor, thank you.

This is a this is an unusual item tonight, but this item is brought because staff have been evaluating options to reduce long-term utility costs for town facilities and to provide greater predictability as energy costs continue to increase. The proposed project would install solar covered parking structures on the Civic campus and is structured through a guaranteed energy savings agreement.

Tonight's presentation will focus on the project scope, the financial structure, the guaranteed savings component, and the available federal rebate opportunity. Because the rebate opportunity is time-sensitive, staff is bringing this item forward now so that council can determine whether if it wishes to authorize the project and preserve the town's eligibility for that savings. I sent out sort of a pre um preview of that uh late last week. Representatives from Varigy, including Elise Neil and D.

Smith, are here um this evening to present the proposal, answer council questions. Uh and we also have staff available to provide additional information as needed. With that, I'm going to ask Ely to take it away. Thank you, Manager Goodwin, and good evening, u Mr. Mayor and council members. I'm Elise Neil and on behalf of Varie, uh we're very um happy to be here tonight to present this project to you. Yes, Mr. Mayor, council members, my name is D. Smith.

We're also joined with our developer, Rob Koy, for tonight. Um and uh yeah, we just thank you very much for being here. We also uh just wanted to say how much of a pleasure it was to work with town manager Goodwin, uh your CFO. We work with um facilities, parks, and uh your maintenance team. And uh we just really appreciate the opportunity to get us here this evening to present this.

Um so with that, this evening, we are uh coming to you as current partners to the town of Fountain Hills, uh seeking approval for the town's dualpurpose solar carport, um project located here at Town Hill and the community center. Uh, this project would save the town $5.2 million over the next 35 years. It provides 128 covered parking spots in the parking lot, and it also offsets 64% of the town utilities.

So, I know we've also had some uh council members bring up they're looking for long-term uh budget stabilization, and this project here offers the ability to do just that. Could you repeat that figure? I'm sorry, I didn't hear it. The last one you said 5.2,28 parking spots, 64% utility offset. Thank you.

And yes, as manager Goodwin said, uh you're tonight, um your approval is necessary to meet critical timelines for the town to receive a 40% uh direct pay rebate, which would equal um just over $956,000 to the project. So we'll talk a little bit about the the problem, why uh this project works for you folks, uh why Very, and then why now. As we all are aware, um rising utility costs are a problem around the state, around the nation.

The town of Fountain Hills currently spends about $193,000 annually on your utility spends. And the chart that you're seeing here is just a conservative four and a half percent escalation rate. So by the year 20 240, high possibility you guys can pay over $370,000 in utilities. Thank you, D. Um yeah, thanks for that. Um additionally, this project is fundamentally a budget and infrastructure item, not just solar. I just um want to make that very clear.

It also reduces and stabilizes your cost, improves your budget predictability, and it also leverages the federal tax investment um incentives that are currently available to you. Um as D mentioned, it does provide covered parking for Fountain Hill residents, your visitors at the town hall, also at the community center, and at the public library.

And so your action here tonight is really about advancing a project that lowers operating cost while current while maximizing the current available federal incentives. So the path to savings and where we've been. So as D mentioned uh we did meet with um manager Goodwin and your CFO and other individuals. We started a preliminary energy audit back in February.

Uh from there we moved into an investment grade audit and here we're now asking for your approval for the contract to move forward into the design. If we do get approval tonight, the project moves into design immediately and we continue that through April of 2027. We will start construction in April of 2027 and then we should be complete by August of 2027. Uh the project will continue to bring savings to the town over the course of 35 years and that will be guaranteed savings to the town.

A little bit about the project. Um D mentioned a couple of highlight highlighted points. Just want to also make sure that you all understand that we have designed this project. We have not overdesigned or underdesigned based on the town's data that we received from your utility. We're also taking into consideration two interconnection points. We've also taken into consideration ADA requirements. Overall, it's a 597 kilowatt project.

Um, again tying into the town hall and into the community center. We have 128 covered parking spaces, 64% energy offset, and you're going to receive $956,000. That is from the direct um incentive from the IRA. um that is tax law and so it's currently in effect right now but it is going to expire and we'll talk a little bit more about that in just a few minutes. We also mentioned that this is a lifetime savings of 5,263,296 dollars.

This is just a larger overview um of the project and as you can see it's a tremendous amount of covered parking. Um, it is on a 10 degree tilt. Um, so it should avoid any glare should that be a problem. Yes. Yes. If you don't mind, I have a question since the slide is up. And it shows the parking structure, but there's a portion in the bottom right hand corner that isn't going to be covered. Is there a reason for that, please? Um, yes, council member um McMahon.

Is that you're talking about over to the right where the library? Oh, the ADA. Yes. Yes. So, the reason that um we are avoiding that area um it's just it's very not very cost-effective to design. Um you'd have to really wrap the steel um also the two points of interconnection are at different sides, but we have taken in account for the ADA parking that is required. So, you will be that will be compliant. You're welcome. Can I ask something? Because we're looking at those right now like she did.

Um the first time I saw this photo, I didn't see that many parking spaces, but I was told unless I need to be corrected here in the the campus parking is 349 spaces, but you're talking about 128. So what am I missing here? So that would have been 221 that are not that are uncovered, but what are we not covering? You have your Yeah. your other side that goes down towards the library and dark skies building and then also to the north there where the uh police vehicles parked.

There's no covered parking. So that's part of what the campus was before. Okay. Is there any plan to eventually cover everywhere? That's not a question to you. No. Um thank you um council member. Um right now the the answer is no. Um, part of the reason is because we are sizing this to your energy capacity. So, we want to make sure that it's not oversized or unders sized. So, right now, your current energy capacity is warranting this design. Keep going. Okay. Okay. Good. Yeah.

So if you guys do nothing, don't pass this, your utility expenditure will stay the same. Your money is going to go to the utility company. Partnering with Var and this partnership here, you guys will see the utility uh usage drop and again the 64% energy offset by installing the solar. The total project cost for this project is $2,390,900 with a potential rebate of $956,384. Starting in year one, VERG is guaranteeing a minimum uh savings of $81,989.

That will grow as utilities continue to grow, but that's our first guaranteed year is about 82,000. As Elise said, over the 35 year lifetime expectancy of this uh solution, you guys should see 5,263,296 uh saved with an ROI of 15 years on the capital investment there. So again, also we just want to be transparent about the ROI. um this is the capital investment for this.

We understand that there are additional um lifetime costs associated um that would be some of the um maintenance and also yeah um additional cost. So that could bring the ROI to about 17 years. Um but the capital investment what we're bringing tonight is 15 years. Okay. So, why partner with Var? Um, like I said, we are a local to Arizona here. We were founded in Arizona. We are the uh the largest energy services company in Arizona. And we do 90% of our work inhouse.

That's what makes us different than our competitors in this world is we are one point of contact to you and all the praise. If there's anything negative, there's one point of contact to the town. Um, we are current, like I said, current partners with the town of Fountain Hills. You guys have beautiful gold medal winning parks. Uh, we have been able to partner on the relights for those installing the Musco at your Golden Eagle Park, at the Desert Vista Skate Park and Mini Pitch.

Uh, we also currently hold a service agreement through our workmanship. Uh, your facilities team thought we did a good enough job that we signed a service agreement as current partners. and and we're also great community partners as well. In 2022, we co-sponsored the parks and wreck um trade show social event at your Desert Vista Park with Musco. Thank you. Um we're also working in for other municipalities across the state and actually across the country.

Um we really like bringing um this type of project, this cost savings to help you become stewards of your taxpayers dollars. Um we've worked with the smaller municipalities um since the beginning of our our company 35 years ago. We also have some of the bigger ones. We're working with city of Phoenix, Puma County. Um but as you can see, we are working with city of Kulage, city of Eloy.

We're also working with the Arizona Department of Emergency Affairs across all of their projects across the state. Okay. So um there was a question about what is performance-based contracting and I know most of you probably have heard the term design build design bid build. Um this is design build. Uh the difference is there are no change orders and there will be um no engineer. There's all the engineering is upfront. Yes. There's no value engineering um in this project.

Um it is backed by Arizona provides statutes uh title 34 34455. Um and again um it's design build. The great thing about it is that there is an savings component and that savings is guaranteed by Varigy should we not produce the energy that we say in the contract then we actually have to write you a check for whatever that difference is. And so why now? Um, so as you all know, there is an investment tax credit that's going to expire on July 4th of 2026.

And so time is of the essence to get the contract signed. Um, this is tax law. It's federal law. If we do nothing, you're you're still paying the money back to your utility. If you take advantage of this project and you take advantage of the tax credit, you get almost a million dollars back to help fund the project. Um there are a couple of things that really make this um tax investment, I think, good for the country. Um some of that is the fiat compliancy and the domestic content.

So we will be required to make sure that all of the materials and that it's manufactured in the United States for this project. We have some questions now, so we'll uh we'll ceue it up. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh I hear that the lifetime is supposed to be 35 years. What's the warranty? Is it 30 years? 30 years. Mr. Mayor, uh council member Skila Skilicorn, we had a 30-year warranty. on the the solar panels, the production for the solar panels. And Mr. Mayor, what about the electronics?

Like if there's a a lightning strike and one of the VFDs pops, uh what's the uh warranty for uh the what's inside the electrical panel? We do a two-year workmanship warranty that would cover. Um, as far as the anything else coverage, Rob inverters, council members, we're gonna bring up our developer Rob Ko for this here. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Councilman, yeah, something like a lightning strike would be an act of God. Um, no warranty would cover that, just to be quite frank. Uh, and Mr.

Mayor, um, what is our current cost uh, per kilowatt for electricity? $4 per Well, $4 per watt is what the cost of the solar is. Your current cost per kilowatt is around 11 cents. Yeah, that's that's a pretty big difference there. Uh so, Mr. Mayor, just doing a little bit of math here. Uh I don't know if the CFO still here CFO if he wouldn't mind shout what he gets a return on investment for funds. Uh, mayor, council member, what was the question?

Uh, for funds that you're not using, what kind of return on investment do you get on an annual basis? Yes. Uh, mayor, council member Skilorn, right now we're blended about 3.8 to 4% uh uh if you were using that as a discount rate. If you don't mind, I use four. And I I while I'm up here, I Kevin says I love the mic. I do want to clarify one thing.

The the the number that they presented in the beginning, the 193,000 that's just for the town hall uh campus, the community center, town hall, and um the library around 200,000. That that's that amount. We actually pay about $480,000 as a town in total for electricity at this point. So that was just one clarification I wanted to make to make sure um that was clear. Mr. Mr. Mayor, what was that? And and Paul, was it 480,000 a year? Yes. Uh fiscal year 25, we spend $481,000. Thank you so much.

And Mr. Mayor, um when I see there is uh one of the projections of save $81,000 a year for the first year. When I look at this total outlay of 2.3 uh 90 and $900, um you know, almost $2.4 $4 million just quickly looking at 4% return 15 years that's $4.3 million and you know that is more than we spend on electricity over those years and it's more than the potential savings. Uh if we just invested this money we'd be better off. I mean this is more expensive than the electricity.

The electricity is so inexpensive that this isn't efficient for the town. I mean it doesn't make sense. The math doesn't add up. And frankly and that's only 15 years. uh if we go well 30 years, you know, it's gonna this is going to be triple that. Uh I don't see the value to this. So, we're going to spend more money. Now, if you want to spend more money on on covered parking, that to have that discussion, right?

But if we're going to have we're going to do covered parking, why don't we uh have covered parking on Avenue Fountains so that retail shoppers can use it? Uh I I just don't see the math here. I mean, when we when you look at what it would cost to do with the opportunity cost, it's going to it costs significantly more than the cost of electricity. When I look at this, I see I see this I see covered parking, almost a million dollar rebate.

the the million dollars to me covers the solar panels and we still have covered parking. That'll last for I don't know 50 years, 75 years. If you look at APS right now, they're looking for a 16% increase. If you look at EPCOR, 17% increase. They're 4 and a.5% that they're building in, I think, is really low. I don't see these um these rates staying that low. There's a big there's a big vacuum right now sucking up energy. You've got data centers working all over.

You've got uh we've been talking with CAP and the water uh up at Lake Powell. That energy is going to be missing as well because there's no water to produce it. So I I think these are very conservative estimates. I see this as um 2.3 $2.4 million a million dollar rebate back. Those are the real numbers that I look at. And then we've got covered parking that people can still use and still go to the art fairs. So that's how I look at it.

So I understand your numbers, but I think if we're being being realistic about the numbers, we have to look at what the percentages really are going to be. And I know that they're they built in four and a half%. Is that what your guarantee is based on? Yes, it is. Yes. Yeah. And SRP in the last four years has averaged 5.15% increase if you take just the last four years alone. Yeah. Anyway, I'll let somebody else Thank you. Thank you very much for your presentation.

Um, I do believe it's going to save us a lot of money. Um, I think it's necessary, especially given what's coming up with the increases in costs for energy, etc. Um, but I do have a question. If you don't mind, maybe you can help me understand this better. under the long-term operational considerations, it's $4,000 about $4,500 a year.

So, what you guys do is you go in and check each of the solar the solar panels to make sure that they're producing what you're saying that they're going to produce the savings, etc. Um, if the maintenance is if there's maintenance or anything required on them, do you perform the maintenance to somebody else? I mean, how does that work? or is this just a contract to come back in and make sure that they're producing what you promise they produce? I'll go ahead and take that one, Mr. Mayor.

Council member, um so we do include a two-year O andM agreement with this. So for the two years after permission to operate, we would service that annually. Um do thorough inspections, thorough calculations on it, make sure everything's still torqued. Um we also provide M andV measurement and verification throughout the term of the contract which would be 15 years is what we're guaranteeing the term for. Um so with that we put light level on it. It's a real time energy monitoring software.

So it gives alerts if anything were to happen. We monitor that daily. We have a team that monitors that throughout the United States. used to it. Um, my questions are more technical, but I'm going to start with one. You mentioned IRA. Is it IRS that we're getting the tax refund from? Not IRA. I'm sorry. Yes. Okay. My mistake. Yes. Inflation reduction act, right? That's different. Yes. From the IRS, sir. Yes. Council member. And we pay how much in taxes a year roughly? Where's Paul?

So, mayor, council member, this particular rebate from the federal government, it doesn't require you to pay federal income taxes or anything like that. So, even though the town is It was a loaded question because we don't pay taxes, right? Yes. Yes. That's where I was going. Okay. So, I want to make sure the requirement was that we It wasn't a requirement that we had to pay taxes because municipalities don't pay taxes. Exactly. And the IRS is really where we get the money.

Um, is the reason that you're you're free to go. Okay. Thanks. Don't go far. Yeah. Don't go far. Yeah. Um, is the reason you pick 64% as your design limits because we don't have a program with SRP much like residential does for a buyback? Yes. Yeah. So, the buyback with SRP is only 2.7 cents when you sell back to SRP.

So, it's peanuts compared to APS where APS we could size it a little bit bigger you get a one for one credit um we're also sizing it based off the utility usage um we know there's a LED project coming here that you guys are looking at um new air handlers over at the community center so we take all that in account because we don't want to just build the biggest system that supports what it is now when you go do some more energy conservation measures and then it's oversized and then it becomes a diminished return on investment, but you have the same thing in the panels.

The panel, you said 15 years on your guarantee on the panel, but performance for the panel starts falling off year two and continues to degrade at 1, two, 3% per year until end of life. Yeah. 0.55% on these panels. Okay. And they have a 25-y year life or they have a 30-year life. Um, they have a 25 year production warranty on them. That to 80%. Is that where you're going to get to the at 25 years? 80% capacity, right? Yes sir.

Um the selection of the angle of the panels that I guess is what you've calculated to maximize I'm not as concerned about reflection as I am about maximizing efficiency of the panels. Is that correct as well? Yes. Correct. Okay. And is there a reason we're using covered parking instead of a much cost costlier prop product putting it on rooftops with flats? Um typically most people are liking the solar panels for the community and everything else.

Uh, a lot of times when we're putting it on the roof that could also void roof warranties. Um, so we don't have a problem with that because it leaks like a s. Yeah. Sorry, Kevin. So, that is a reason a lot of commercial and municipalities like to avoid anything on their rooftops. Okay. Is the system expandable? Should we want to add more panels at some time? Yes, absolutely. Okay. The inverters are the panels.

I mean, we can always put more panels up, but as long Yeah, more port more panels, but you'd have to accompany it with another inverter depending on the number of panels. Gotcha. Um, I think that does it for me. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. As Rick's the technical guy, I'm the numbers gal. So, I have some questions which Paul is aware of because I did share these with him beforehand. So, no surprises here. Um, except you said something before that I didn't have in here.

You said we only spent about $200,000 on electricity for the town hall area, 400 and something, but that's um throughout the community. So, we're just talking about savings on the 200,000. Is that Did I not understand that? um for this for this area. Yeah. So, mayor, vice mayor. Yeah, I that's the idea. Is the the proposed project considered the town hall campus and the best use and the best project for the town hall campus.

So, the savings would be experienced townwide, but really it would impact those meters. So, I did include a a breakdown of expenditures in your packet. So, I I haven't really thought through this kind of on the spot, but that would impact the meters in question, which would be the town hall community center uh meter and the library museum building. You would see a reduction.

Actually, one good example that I'm somewhat familiar with is the Golden Eagle Park and and Deed had mentioned that they helped us retrofit new LED lighting at that park. you kind of I mean when I look at the numbers I kind of see that there's a correlation because our expenditures reduced from in fiscal year 23 at Golden Eagle Park from 30,600 to about 22,500 the next year even though that year our overall town electricity went up quite a bit from about 415,476,000.

So there is some evidence that some of the energy efficiency measures that VR has helped us with have helped the town from a cost perspective. Okay. So, following up with what I shared with you earlier, um I'd like to go over those numbers. The project contract is 2,390,900. Yes. The guaranteed electric savings for 15 years, but then I heard today may be 17 years was 1,64 173. Correct. Yes. So that leaves us at a net cost or energy savings over the 15 years um minus this. Let's see, never mind.

I'll forget that one. The other thing that's not calculated in here is going to be the insurance because we're going to be doing an increased insurance and over the period of 15 years that adds $67,500. Yeah, approximately. Yes. Okay. And then the measures and verification is on a sliding scale. It it it starts out at 4,000 five 4 thou almost 4,500 but by year 15 it's 7,211. Correct. So that's a total of 86,490 that we will be paying Verigy to verify their own guaranteed savings.

That seems like a conflict of interest to me. Um then the panel cleaning that's included in the first two years but year 3 to 15 when we talked that's a $14,000 per year cleaning that's a 182,000 $182,000. Then the rebate application, I didn't have that in there before, but we talked. We're talking about spending $12,000 to get help with that rebate application. So we add $12,000 to that. So then if we add all that that's ex extra expenses.

So if we do not get the rebate, which is not guaranteed, nobody's telling us here it's guaranteed. So if we do not get the guaranteed or if we do not get the rebate in 15 years, it will cost us 1,134,717. Even though we saved on it in electricity, if we do get the rebate of 956,360, we are out a cost of 178,357. So there's really no savings over the 15 years or maybe at 17 years. So then that's the um what do you call the um rate of return? Rate of um right. So ROI. Yes. Return of investment.

M so we're looking at not saving anything for 15 to 17 years. So then we my other question is going to be we're going to borrow this money right or do we have the 200 2 million390 do we have it? Are we going to borrow it and then there's going to be expense on the borrowing it. So this doesn't seem numbers wise doesn't work for me. Uh mayor did I say anything wrong there? Mayor Vice Mayor you're pretty on point with your numbers. We did discuss them.

I I would like to add a couple clarifications. Uh like for example the measurement verification fee that is elective. We could choose if if we are achieving the savings every year and they they do do that measure. We want to do that measurement at least for a few years to make sure we're exceeding what they projected. That is something we could decide to remove. So that's just a caveat to that. Um as far as borrowing money, we have the sufficient funding in our capital.

That was one of the options that was initially discussed as potential um but that would actually reduce the rebate ability like the rebate would go down if we were to choose that option. So because we have sufficient fund in the capital projects fund this proposed project would use the capital projects existing fund balance and budget. Um but for the most part yes what you state is correct. The numbers we went over they are correct.

Um, so the the whole idea I know from Verarig's perspective is that once that point hits where we hit that ROI in 15 to 17, maybe it's 18 years, that's when the town will um benefit. But if we opt out of the M&V or, you know, the verification, then they won't guarantee us. You're right. Absolutely. So then we wouldn't get the check for if we didn't actually get the savings.

But we still will have expenses, the insurance, the cleaning, um, uh, whatever insurance, cleaning, other items on that on that after the year 15, 16, 17, what we're talking about. It keeps growing because when I first heard about it, it was an eight-year thing. So my thoughts are going down on this. Um, so when we if we have a warranty on it, so you say it loses efficiency over each year. So there's a warranty. Is it a 100% replacement or is there going to be a big deductible?

Is there a warranty on the covered parking as well? The the steel covered parking on the structure. The structure. Thank you. Uh, that would be a two-year warranty for the workmanship warranty. Okay. So we still we we look like we could have expense there. So again, can you tell me if we have a warranty up to you said 25 years, someone else said 30 years, but now it's actually 25 years. So is that 100% or do we have a deductible? Is it is it prorated?

Do is the warranty maybe only 50% at 20 years? It's warranty on the production of it of the modules. Okay, explain that to me. So it will cost us money. you you'll produce it, but we would still if we had a problem with a panel, it would still we would have an outlay of more money then is what is that of my what am I understanding? Yes. After the initial warranty period, the the panels itself have a 12-year warranty panel like warranty that covers 100%.

If something was defective or a panel failed, they would replace that. We would replace that for the 12 years that that warranties in. So, we're only at 12 years with the warranty. Yeah. What's what's between 12 and 25 years then? Just the production, but we still pay. So, what does a panel cost from year 12 to 25? What's that? I'm sorry. What would the panel cost after the 12 years then? Um, I'm sorry if it's a trick question, but it's probably not cheap. Yeah.

No, I mean, a panel is probably four to 500 bucks and install it. So if they're only and you're charging us 2,390 if they're only 4,500. You have you have the the numbers I'm now now I'm like spinning here with these numbers. You have the construction, you have the steel, you have all the underground, the wiring, um the electric runs, um the meters, the new tie-ins to the SCS's. There's a lot more to it than just the panels. Sure. Okay. Okay.

But we we would pay you say production, we'd pay for the panel, we'd pay for the labor to install one after the 12 years. Correct. So it's not really a warranty coverage for the 25 years 100%. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um yeah, thank you for your presentation. Um very impressive. I know Verity works with a lot of larger municipalities, a lot of larger jobs and this is a pretty small job for you but I think it's going to bring a lot of benefit to Fountain Hills.

Um my question the first one would be to the town manager which was um on the like since the count since the staff is recommending this um did you calculate the likelihood of getting the rebate and your recommendation for this project? Sure. Um thank you for the question. So um to be fair the they showed a timeline of how long we've been working on this and um we have pulled a lot of staff and uh resources together to see if this is really the right fit for us.

Um it went through quite a dogged uh review multiple times um to even through legal to make sure that we had um a sound footing to bring this forward tonight if it made sense. Part of that was the rebate because of course, you know, that is really the driving piece of tonight's conversation is that 40% rebate. Um, we knew that there was that there were qualifications.

We wanted to ensure that um Paul really spearheaded that research um and worked with both D and Elise to get verifications um all of the verifications we needed through the manufacturers as well as worked with an outside consultant to review the language and to ensure that we were reading it interpreting it and applying it correctly. So, while there is no guarantee, I want to I want to make that very clear.

There is no guarantee that the um rebate will apply, we are about as confident as possible until we actually apply for it because it is federal. It does have, you know, it does have some language, but we have done every piece of due diligence that we can short of actually submitting for it to confirm that we are eligible for it. Can I ask you a question on that quick? Of course. Excuse me. No rebate, no project. Is that is that safe to say?

I say I I would think that that's that's really the key factor in this. Yeah. But I would refer to both Dean Elise and Very as to the guidance there. That that's really what's the key, you know, the key supporter for us. That's a big driver. So, can you answer that? Um yes, thank you uh Mr. Mayor and council members. Um yes, so um the investment tax credit that we are um going to help you achieve um is federal law.

Um Bar has been working with multiple municipalities and school districts across the country, all of whom have been receiving this. Um it's just a matter. It's a tax form. as long as we're compliant and we have everything that we need, which we've been following the guidance of tax advisors and um the consultants that you all have been talking with. Um it's just a matter of three pages that you fill out.

Um like I said, we are seeing our clients, we've got testimonials that they are receiving that tax credit back. Um it is federal law right now. Um but it is going to sunset July 4th and that's why we're here tonight. Um I also um yeah just to remind you that regardless um you're still paying SRP no matter what um whether you invest in this project or not you're still taking that bucket of money to SRP. Um so thank you mayor. If I can confirm something too.

Um and I want to double check my understanding is that we don't become eligible for that rebate until the project is completed. So to say, you know, no rebate, no, it would it's kind of the other way around. We have to um complete the project in order to submit for that rebate. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um and so to deflect my question that went to the manager to you, um what is your confidence level that we will get this rebate?

I'm highly confident, um council member, that you will receive the the rebate. Um the it's tax law. This isn't your first rodeo. No. No, it's not. Um um yeah, we our reputation is on the balance um for this. And so we would not um in good faith tell you that um this is something that we feel you would receive if we were not confident that you would. Thank you very much.

And I also um again since you mentioned it, I'll mention this to you, but um in your return on investment in our package, it was stated at 15 years. And I appreciate you're saying, well, it might be 17 years because of some of the incidentals that have been brought up by other council members.

So, I think you were very candid that said there are other incidentals that are tied to this, but if you take the whole thing, the big picture in the 30,000 foot view, it'll still be a return on investment in 17 years and this thing is going to be going hopefully for 35 years. And so, once again, that's a lot of long-term savings even if the return on investment is two years longer.

So, I just wanted to point that out and and thank you for pointing that out and and just being candid enough to not go with the 15-year.

The last thing I'd like to talk about and I and I think we we skipped over it a little bit and but I think the people in the audience and the people at home, they want to understand this this guaranteed savings by law and and by your company because I've never done this myself to my home, but if I'm paying $600 a month for utilities and that company came and said, I can guarantee it's going to be $50 a month and if it's more than that, we'll pay for it. I think I'd do that.

And I think isn't that what you're offering us here tonight? It is. Yes. Um, council member, it is exactly what um is in the the state law for the type of contracting that we're doing. So, we're not taking this on faith because this is backed by your company and state law. Correct. Okay. I I like that. Thank you. You're welcome. In the light level software that we install on it that monitors that, you will see the real time KWH production. So, it's not a number we're giving you.

It's it's backed by um metered. So we see it, you see it. It's it's complete transparency. Yeah. And and thank you for that because once again, we've read the packet and and we did the deep dive, but people at home and the people in the audience, they might not be aware of that. And so again, again, we're not taking anything on faith here. This is this is a trusted verify and and you guys are guaranteeing you're going to deliver what what you said you're going to deliver.

And uh that's a very good thing. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Yeah, just again punching in numbers. 11 cents a kilowatt. Uh we're still fronting $2.4 million. Even if there is a potential for rebate, which is not guaranteed, uh we have to front that till it's completed. Uh so there's opportunity costs on that money. And the savings is rather limited. Uh the warranty is not 30 years. It's not 35 years.

you know, sounds like it's, you know, number of years on the panel performance, but then the equipment is only two and one monsoon could knock out the electronics. Uh, and as someone that's, uh, spent a lot of time in the, uh, inverter and VFD industry, it happens every day. Uh, so we're on the hook. We're on the hook. It's there's a lot of risk to this uh, for very little savings. And frankly, once you do the math, there isn't any savings.

we're going to spend more money to save 11 cents a kilowatt. I mean, uh, and if everything goes perfect, you know, we're looking at that 17 to 20 years and then we have obsolete outdated equipment, uh, that has, you don't have any value. Um, so if if you're thinking about it as a as a shade for a parking structure, that's fine. Uh, but there just isn't any savings here. And we have to outweigh the money and there's opportunity costs of money.

uh if if we simply put that money uh you know into the bank, we make more money on it than the amount of money we spend on electricity. It's just really what it is. This is is not a representation and good fiduciary policy for the people of the Fountain Hills. We do understand that Mr. Mayor and Mr. Councilman. Um we also do want to reiterate the fact that we are seeing since 2022 uh COVID a 5.1% price increase in utilities. So it is exponentially jumping since COVID as well. Yeah.

But along those lines, you've got to have that factored into your 15 to 17 years. So you already do that. So the more we talk about the numbers, the more concerned I am about it. At the 15-year, best case scenario, 15 years, the panels in a very simple math have degraded by seven and a half percent. So, we're down to 56% as opposed to 64% somewhere in that area.

The life of those panels being 25 years, yes, there's some upside after that 17-year period, but we don't know what that is, and we don't know what replacement costs are going to be. We don't know what Councilman Skilicorn's point inverters all of the all the interconnections that are involved. We end up with a nice covered parking area for few million dollars.

And when you talk about the guarantee, I don't wish any ill will on Verigy, but I assume you guys have a performance bond that you guarantee the savings by way of a bond so that if you happen to go defunct, we still have the bond. Is that accurate? explaining that again please. Most I I'm not believe I'm not relying completely on very for your guarantee. There has to be something behind verary in the way of an insurance performance bond or a payment bond. Yeah, we do.

So you bond to our benefit that if something should go ary, we have a fallback not just on you. Correct. Yes, sir. Okay. And I'm still stuck on the payback. And the payback is really dri driven because the lousy return that SRP gives us that couple of cents. Whereas in a residential environment, we get dollar for-doll payback. And that makes it viable. And also the reason I would go from 64% up to 80 85 90% even. So I'm not so sure I'm sold at this point.

And I think I might be safer investing in the market as opposed to not the market necessarily these days, but you know making other prudent investments as our fin our CFO has already done as opposed to speculation on solar. So I need more to be able to help. Okay. You're also hedging the bet against future um future rate increases. If you look at APS, they're asking for 14% the last three years. Of course, they're not getting it, but they're getting 8%, they're getting 9% year after year.

It's only a matter of time before everybody else catches up. Yeah. But the point still remains 15-year life while eight while SRP we have to deal with is continuing to raise their rates, the technology is also jumping by increments. So, some of the the film solar that's coming out these days has a longer life, has a higher efficiency. Some of the dual layer solar that is coming out has a much higher efficiency and and the reliability is pretty stable.

But the technology at the end of 15 years, we don't know what we're going to get. I think I read a report that something had 120% efficiency. I don't know how the heck they got that, but you know something. So it's my point is we're stuck with old equipment for 15 years. We didn't really save any money during that period of time. Now what do we do? So again, I need more. Let me ask a couple comments if you don't mind. So somebody said there's no benefit right now.

Well, the benefit right now is covered parking, but I do have a couple questions for you. Is there any play in that warranty from two years? Did you every project you did, was it a two-year warranty? Yeah, that that's a standard Arizona statute, a two-year workmanship warranty that all contractors have to provide for any construction project. Okay. Thank you. And uh I don't know, um maybe this is a Paul question. Have we talked to anybody else about pricing on a on a project like this?

Um how competitive is this? So, uh, mayor council, this, so this contract was structured under a cooperative agreement through performance contracting. So, we really didn't know the scope of what they would even uh, propose. They what they first did. So, going back a little bit, they started with an initial energy. So, evaluating our energy interval data to see where there could be some efficiencies.

So it's actually a very um long process for them to evaluate that and then say hey based on the data we see uh this this is what we propose and this was the main project discussed. There's other energy efficiencies they are proposing but because this one has a deadline with the federal rebate that's why we brought to council at this time we have not had the opportunity and this question's come up why not go through uh a bid process. Well, we didn't know the scope.

You need a scope to go through a bid process and and what we're doing is completely legal and within the parameters of our procurement policy. It's it's a performance contract. They guarantee the savings for a certain cost to build the project. So, I I have another question. Have you How long have you guys been doing these projects for the other towns in Phoenix? And we've been in business for 35 years.

Have you what kind of what kind of difference have you seen in the in the technology of the panels in the last five years? Has it been dramatic? Um it's in the last five years they were at about 450 watts per panel. Uh we're right around 570 right now. You're seeing a typical panel and the inverters. Um so I want to make another comment too. If if monsoons knocked them out, nobody in Arizona would have solar.

So I I I'm concerned about monsoons, but again, nobody in Arizona would have solar if monsoons knocked them out. So um your inverters, what's the warranty on the inverters? The inverters have 10-year warranty on 10 year. Okay. Go ahead, Vice. Thank you, mayor. Um, I want to go back to the rebate now, learning that we don't get reimbursed till the project is done. When do we know we're guaranteed for the warranty? I'm sorry, the um the rebate.

Um, so but I we will apply for the rebate, but we're not guaranteed the rebate. But then are we locked in whether we get the rebate or not? Is there an option to apply for rebate and then say we go forward only knowing we got the rebate? So, mayor, vice mayor, I I'll speak and you guys correct me if I say anything incorrect.

Um, so in these conversations, you know, Verigy, as any company, they would not guarantee that in the contract negotiations that we would get the rebate, but they have made many efforts to provide documents and clarification. We we end up end up uh contracting with the tax advisor because to their point the tax forms are not that complicated but it's all the calculations and um evaluating the criteria of the federal rebate that is challenging.

So we have done a lot of verification and going back and forth with very for them to provide the documentation our tax advisor needs to provide positive assurances. So I guess I never touched on the fact that we do feel really good we'll get the rebate very very strongly. It's not guaranteed, but it's as close to a guarantee that we can get as a staff at this point. But yes, it will come after the fact. And we won't know uh until the project's done planned for next August if approved.

After that, they have to energize it. I is that a few months or how long will that typically take? It's when the project's complete. So, so we would know in about uh 14 to 16 months from now if we uh receive the rebate, we would apply for right away with our tax advisor. Um and and we would find out pretty quickly. Okay. So then just a a reminder that in the 15 years to get the guarantee of savings, we would be shelling out 86,490. It's not free.

the guarantee payback if we don't have the savings is not free conflict of interest I think I don't know and then if my calculations here if we did nothing and we stayed with SRP with their suggestions or their um estimate of the raises every year um we'd be saving 178,357 in the 15 years but if we don't get the rebate That's going to be over a million. Are you counting the covered parking in there? I don't know how you put All the covered parking is I don't know how you can put a value on that.

Okay. Um what? Well, we wouldn't have if I'm saying if we we Well, that's a that's expensive covered parking to get the covered parking with the solar. Yes, it all it's all together. But if we just stuck with SRP, didn't have covered parking, it looks like we in 15 years, we would still be ahead 178,000. This is just estimates because you're just estimating too. So it doesn't and all these things we're learning more and more and as things break down over time or what could happen.

Um not sure how good our insurance would be if a monsoon came through and knocked stuff out. I don't know what that covers. It just the numbers don't look good to me. Sorry, Paul. Mayor, thank you. Um, I'm going to thank you. Okay, Hannah, go ahead. Thank you, Mayor. Apologies. Uh, I don't have a way to raise my hand over the phone.

Um um what my first question is regarding the actual design of the project, not even just our numbers, but um knowing that, you know, if we were at the equator, the the solar panels would be able to be flat, but as you move away from the equator, there's a certain angle they need to be to obtain maximum energy or retain maximum energy. Did we prioritize that angle to get the most energy out of each panel or did we prioritize angle as in getting more shade for the vehicles?

I just want to see if we looked at those options if there's different designs we could look at. Yes, Miss Councilwoman. Um, we do look at all the options for the angles. You could go at a higher angle, but then you're also increasing all your construction costs and your steel costs as well. 10% is the optimum that the computer program, we put it in a uh computer program that spits out where the optimal layouts are, what the angle is, what the asim is, and this is where we're at with the 10%.

Okay. Thank you. So to be clear, are we getting the maximum amount of energy possible out of the solar panel or are you saying that we are not to reduce building cost? M Miss Councilwoman, no. uh probably not getting the most out of the angle because you would have to go at about a 20% angle to be at your most optimal. But that would put your your canopy on the rear approximately 25 ft in the air and it would block the view of your whole buildings. Okay. Yeah, I wouldn't want that either.

um with and now if I hope Paul hasn't walked too far away, but um Paul, what would the cost be for us to just build covered parking? Like let's say we don't put any solar panels on there. Would that be similar to this project cost? That's fair. I understand that we wouldn't have like What was that, Councilwoman? Sorry, Paul. Um, I understand we wouldn't have exact figures. Um, probably hasn't been a design yet, but do we have at least an idea of what the difference would be?

Because I know a lot of the draw here is the covered parking. So, I would like to compare if that's half the cost, let's put half the money to just building covered parking, you know. So, what I'll say to that as mayor, councilwoman is the reason this is before the council um before the break is because of the federal rebate.

So, if if the council is interested in looking at covered parking without the solar panels um that's something we could look at in the fall or next fiscal year and it wouldn't really impact the rebate um ability to get a rebate. So that's something we could reconsider and look at as staff. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much for your presentation and all your in-depth information. Also um your proven professional experience in the past and building things for the town, etc.

Um as you said, we're going to be paying SRP anyway and electricity. Um this is a capital improvement. It is going to not only be covered parking that is capital on our books, but it's going to be solar panels, etc. And um if you think about it, we have entered into many contracts before with um not knowing for sure whether or not we were going to get a rebate. And generally, it's panned out, I think, almost every single time that we do. And we've done that.

So we have voted for and supported other contracts that have a upcoming rebate that we apply for etc. So I'm not really really concerned and nervous about that. Um, I do think personally that this is a really good idea and I would like to make a motion to approve the proposed energy savings capital project for parking, shade structure, solar panels and including all necessary steps to execute contracts to initiate and administer the project to completion.

Um, this is um a timely thing and that's why it's here. It's not the only reason we're bringing it now. is we're bringing it. You guys have been working on this and the staff has been working on this for a really long time. They've done in-depth research about it. It's not just because of the rebate. It's because it's a good it's a good capital project for the town. Thank you. Okay. I would second Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh, and I just have a couple questions for the vendor.

Um, we did talk about inverters. What brand inverter are you guys using? Um, the inverters are SMA Sunny Tric Power X. Okay. And then, um, how many are there? Um total is f see you got five inverters for the community center and three inverters on the town hall race. Mr. Mayor, bear with me a moment. Okay, there's quite a few. I just take a look at their warranty information. Um, also, uh, Mr. Mayor and, um, Councilman Watts, um, the 10% versus 20% angle. We have thoughts on that.

You know, again, I'm skeptical. I don't I think this is the is going to be very expensive for us to have covered parking. But, uh, Mr. Mayor, uh, Councilman Watts, you have a thoughts on the angle. I I think the 10% angle has some inherent flaws, but when you do the angle and you do the math, and I forget a squ, b square, c squed, that kind of stuff. Um, you're probably right, 20 plus feet versus what do we have 15 feet right now for covered parking. So, I think that's something to be concerned.

I think I look at this slightly differently after all the financial conversations. I think we look at this as a break even project at 15 to 17 years and then if we're willing to accept a 50% performance after that including in addition to or plus costs of maintenance and upkeep then we should do it. But I don't think it pays for itself in that 15 to 17 years. And I think the math supports that I think the maintenance costs are going to be high.

I'm glad to hear that there are fewer number of inverters rather than having hundreds of inverters out there because the more items you've got, the more failures you're going to have. So, we reduce some of those. I just think that it's it's it's inherently SRP's issue because they don't give us dollar for dollar. So, we get a couple of cents. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

So if we want from the council's perspective, if we want to live with the fact that 15 years from now, we'll have paid for this and we'll get whatever we get out of the system, that's different way to look at it. Let me add something too. I think that it, correct me if I'm wrong, the main cost to all this is the construction cost. The equipment isn't really it's $500 for a panel. I mean, it's it's it's not like it's going to break us if a panel goes out.

So, um, and I think again looking at the numbers and just looking at our trash hauler wanted 30% more. EPCOR is up 17%. APS 16. I think the the the repayment on this is going to be shorter than 15 or 17 years. I just I don't see any way around that. I mean, um, am I am I right? The major cost is the construction. Yes, that's right, Mr. Mayor. And also want to say that um on the calculations that Rob had put put together we guaranteed that on 95%.

So we will also um recognize more savings but for the guarantee that is what the um the industry would be for the 95% on that. Do we do we have a comment card somebody to speak? No mayor. We do have three comment cards though and they all say they are for this project. They don't want to speak. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I did look up the the inverters are made in Germany, not made in United States. Um, you know, and again, we don't know how long they're going to last.

Uh, there's maintenance costs. Uh, equipment like this doesn't last forever. And in my experience which is extensive in this field you know the lifetime the lifetime of these inverters is less than 15 years. I thought the requirement for the rebate was all Americanmade. Yes, Mr. Mayor. uh council member Watts that we have to meet a minimum 50% uh of domestic content for your project to be considered domestic content compliant.

Um with the materials and products that we're using, you guys are passing that threshold to 53.2% on um domestic content. So you guys do qualify for domestic content as well as the fiat compliant materials. Thanks. Mr. Mayor, thank you very much for your generosity here. I promise this is my last comment. Uh, as someone who is critical of the Inflation Explosion Act, uh, I would be hypocritical if I voted for this. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

And, um, yeah, just before we vote, I I just want to say, and you mentioned the word stewardship in in your presentation, and that's literally what I had written down before your presentation even begun. Um, I think this is a good project and this is a kind of infrastructure and long-term infrastructure project that I think we should all be interested in. Um, we and the council serve two to four year terms. Um, and we are temporary stewards of a town that's going to be here for many, many years.

Um, we're making decisions today that future councils and future mayors, future budget officers are going to thank us for. They're they're going to reap the benefits of what we're doing today, many years down the road, and there then somebody sometime is going to tip the hat to the 2006 town council and say, "These people um had were visionaries. They look down the road. They invested today. It's 2.3. We We're going to get the re I'm sure we're going to get the rebate.

The experts say we're going to get the rebate." That knocks it down to 1.3. And we're going to be getting cost savings on utilities that are going up dramatically with all the data centers and all the competition for electrical. It's it's going to go up exponentially. And we're going to be getting cheap energy for 35 years.

And this is something that I'm so proud to to take a yes vote on tonight because this shows long-term planning, long-term stewardship, and investing today and what we're going to be benefiting from in the future.

And so to me, this is the probably the easiest vote I've taken since I've been in the council going on four years now to to to support the staff, to support the staff report, to support the people, the experts that have come here to our small town and are offering us an option for future savings so we can make more infrastructure, future roads, future investments, future performance center.

Um, this is an easy vote and so thank you for your presentation and that's what I have to say before I vote. I have two more comments. Um, one, I think we can space this out over two years. So that would help us for budgeting. And then secondly, uh is there something we can look at for use of uh downtown funds to help fund this project so it doesn't all come out of a um general fund? Uh mayor, we can certainly take a look at that. I'll work with Paul. Wherever Paul went. There you are.

Thank you. Um to see if that's a a viable option. Thank you. So we have a motion and a second. Uh, can we get a roll call, please? Council member Skellicorn, no. Council member Larabby, no. Council member McMahon, I. Council member Calibianis, I. Council member Watts, no. Vice Mayor Earl, may I explain my vote? I do support energy savings. But as a steward for our town, I think we need to make financially sound in in uh decisions.

And I just don't it doesn't seem financially sound for the return on investment with all the numbers we've looked at. So my answer is no. Mayor Fredell I. Mayor three to four fails. Thank you. Mr. Mayor, make a motion for a couple minute recess. I'll second that. Short recess. Okay, thank you.

And now we'll move on to item C, which is consideration and possible action regarding a budget authority transfer for additional design cost for the down downtown streetscape capital improvement to uh town manager. Thank you, Mayor. Uh, director Wel is going to walk us through um a minor sort of a minor change in the sense that um we have funding set aside in next year's budget uh for the construction of the ne the downtown streetscape.

However, um construction can't happen until we finish design. Is that about right? I'll let you finish those details. Director, thank you for the introduction and and the brief description. So, I have been doing this for a considerable amount of time. Sometimes I lighten the mood by using the term proverbial hat. At other times, when it's larger amounts of money, I say dump truckloads. As I mature, I grow less tolerant of some of these things on behalf of the people that I work for.

And in this particular case, my tolerance level is right around there. The primary reason for that is I missed some things during the 15% design concept report, which was primarily related to drainage. Now that we're moving forward and we have a lot more information, information information that we are paying for, not me, these things begin to add up. What I'm here tonight to ask for is funding.

And this wouldn't be the first time I've been before this elected body and others to simply state the money that we have allotted for design is not going to be enough. And the reason for this ask is drainage. If the project is constructed without drainage improvements on Park View between La Montana and Saworro, when this placemaking town improvement is finished and there is an event there, pick your event, if there is rainfall, that rainfall is going to impact vendors that are in that space.

And that's negative media and publicity and not what we should be focusing on. And that's what it comes down to. There was a little bit of error in the 15% design, the concept report. I'll own that. But in order to keep moving, we need to keep the design moving. Now, let's get to the logistics and the challenging part.

We have money budgeted for next year based on the budget that you've all seen several presentations for construction of the first section which is Birdie River between Avenue and the fountains and Palisades. We're asking to use some of that money out of next year to complete the design. The intent is to keep moving on the moving forward on the project which we have done. We've had enough funding to keep going with the design.

There hasn't been any delays related to that, but we want to get it over the hump and get the design finished, all the technical specifications, the bid documents done, and get the first phase bid out for construction. So, that's what I'm here to ask for is some additional money to cover that drainage design. With that, I'll do my best to answer any questions not related to my maturity or my attitude. Thank you, Mr. Mayor and Director Webley.

Uh, so it's we already did the engineering for the drainage or we just need a little bit more to do that engineering and that is an addition to the angled parking spots and all that that's going on there. Mr. Mayor, council member, this is just to pay for the design of the drainage. So, we're the that design is already underway because again, we do have funding to keep moving until June 30th of this year. We're asking for that funding to carry into next year for the design. And Mr.

Mayor, Director Wley, do though do those storm uh drainage um where where does it go to? I mean, it it it wouldn't be allowed to go to to the lake. Where does it go to? Mr. Mayor, council members. So, it's easy for me to paint a picture, but basically what we have is everything from La Montana west to the Avenue of the Fountains in and around the drugstore and the assisted living facility. Those drain onto the Avenue of the Fountains.

From the Avenue of the Fountains, they drain through that neighborhood into a basin. And that basin is along Westby and then it goes under Westby and underneath the smaller homes on on La Montana and comes underneath the bashes parking center. It enters La Montana right around Park View. You may or may not during storms have seen water what appears to be a lot of water coming out of the bashes parking. That's the water from there. Now, that covers that part west of La Montana.

A little bit of technical term here. So, when when we talk about the vertical crest, I'm talking about the highest part on a road. North of Partview on La Montana, the vertical crest is just in front of the bank building there. South of Partview on La Montana, the vertical crest is just around the corner on the Avenue and the fountains. So, some of the water that comes down the avenue will turn, but all of that water ends up on Park View.

Now, to get to answering your question, all of the runoff that comes down Park View will be entering into a storm drain that exists on Saworro Boulevard. Depending on the quantity or the queue as we describe it, it will then enter Fountain Channel. Mountain Channel is a turf area parallel to Saworro that starts right at Park View and then disappears as it goes under El Logago and eventually ends up heading into the Birdie River and the Salt River. And Mr.

Mayor uh director uh the let's say the water that comes out of Bashes is that above grade that goes down the street or is are there storm drains storm sewers that flows underneath grade? For the bashes, there is a concrete structure that allows it to flow under bashes. Once it enters La Montana, it's on the surface. Our intent is to capture it in that area and pipe it down to Sorl. Thank you. And M you mentioned mag. I don't know if I specifically remember a mag component to this.

Is is there or was there like a drainage something to do drainage with mag? Uh so the first part of this which was the 15% design concept was a $100,000 grant from MAG. That got us to the 15% which doesn't go into a lot of details. It just gives us some concepts that we presented not only to the public but to this elected body. Thank you very much. You're welcome. So far this is the best topic. Thank you mayor.

So, my understanding is we already have this money just in another bucket, so to speak, and we're switching it to this one. If I speak like Paul does, I don't know where he is. Is that correct, Mr. Mayor? Madam Vice Mayor, that is correct. We already have money budgeted next year for construction. We're asking to use some of that construction money for design, but we don't want to do construction improperly. We need the proper design.

So, I if I can make a motion to approve and then continue conversation. I'll second that. So, we've already got we've already got money set for the budget to do the actual construction component. Is that correct? Uh, Mr. Mayor, council member, that is correct. So, we can we get your personal assurance that you'll save this money out of that. Uh, council member, I can't give you personal assurances based on all the other moving parts, but I'm a man of my word. So, thank you, Justin.

I appreciate the input. Town clerk, are there any comment cards? No, mayor. No. I'll take a motion. A second. Second. Did you get Did you second it? Okay, we have a motion and a second. Can we get a roll call, please? Council member Skilorn. Yes. Council member Larby. I. Council member McMahon. Hi. Council member Calvianis. I. Council member Watts. I, Vice Mayor Earl, I, and Mayor Fidell. I, Mayor 70. Thank you.

Moving on to item D, discussion and possible direction relating to ebikes and e Moto regulations. Rachel, mayor, if you recall from our last meeting, we had a request to review um what our current um statutes say, what our current rules are. Um, ebikes are a growing concern in a number of communities, not just ours, but across the valley. Um Kevin has taken some time to put together some um highlights about ebikes, what they are, what they aren't, and what we currently have in place.

Um I do know that we also have Captain Thomas in the back um because this conversation obviously does overlap with MCSO efforts. So with that, I'll turn it over to Director Snipes. Um and just want to note too that this item is agendaized for discussion and possible direction. So, it's really about next steps, what you guys would like to see, if any. All right, with that, all yours. Thank you very much. Um, Mr. Mayor, council members, um, we're here tonight to talk about ebikes.

I know it's been a hot topic of discussion throughout this year for sure and last year as well. Um where we'd kind of like to start is there's a lot of um even municipalities that are coming out and and saying things that aren't accurate as far as what an ebike is or is not. Um here we kind of seen one that that was that was put out by Scottsdale and it's talking about they're creating no ebike zones. Well, the picture is not of an ebike, it's of an e-oto.

So, um, that's something that we need to kind of pay attention to as we're talking about this to make sure that we're talking about the things that that we're intending to. Um, off to the right, you can kind of see that um, the ebikes are kind of a lot like what we saw in many years ago when the mopeds came out and mopeds were not motorcycles. So, they had their own set of rules. Now it's just we're talking about ebikes or e-otos versus motorcycles or e- motorcycles.

Um so kind of looking at the two and the differences. Um an ebike is something with pedals. If you can't pedal it, it's not an ebike. Uh where um an e motorcycle has pegs like a motorcycle does. um they can be much faster and and require uh you to follow the rules of the road um which includes having license and all the things that you would have to have if you were uh riding a motorcycle.

Here's another look uh at a at an emoto and um the gear that's required for it um which follows the same guidelines as what we do with with motorcycles. What we're here talking about uh primarily tonight is the ebikes. And so there's three different classes of ebikes. um they can be manipulated. So, it's one of the things that we got to kind of look at. They um have stickers that are on them when they when they first come out, but that doesn't mean that people don't take those off.

So, um it it it's one of the things that makes this very difficult with enforcement is figuring out exactly what you're dealing with. um the state law in Arizona um is the baseline authority. So we have to follow that at minimum. What we wanted to do beyond that is up to the group tonight to have that discussion and and figure out what we want to do and then we'll bring that back to you for approval um in the fall. Here we're kind of talking about the different classes of ebikes.

Um, the class ones are and class 2s both only go to 20 miles per hour. Uh, the class one has pedal assist, which means you have to be pedaling it for the motor to work. The class 2s mean that you can throttle it like you would a motorcycle to to get power and you don't have to have the pedal assist, but it still is limited to a 20 mph uh, speed. And the class 3es go up to 28 miles per hour and they do have a uh speedometer required on them and they are pedal assist only.

So as you can see just in those descriptions there's a lot of similarities between all three of them. So there's when we start having different um uh different rules based on the classes, it becomes very difficult for uh MCSO to be able to look across the park and go, "Yep, that's a class one or that's a class 2 or that's a class three." That's a very difficult uh thing to determine from a distance. Um around the valley, there's a lot I mean it's all over the place.

So, this is one where everybody's trying something different and and I don't think that any one solution has has solved all the problems, but what we're trying to do is minimize uh the issues that we've had. Um, Phoenix has gone to um being the most respect restrictive in their uh park and preserve areas. um they're set up where they're off-road vehicle, their off-road trails.

Um they don't allow uh e the ebikes except for on uh the streets and on the pave paved facilities on their natural surfaces. They don't allow it in the uh on their trails and things like that, which we are we follow that same guideline here. Uh we don't allow ebikes in our preserve at all or on any of our trails at this time. Scottsdale kind of took a a little bit different approach. Um they've guided theirs more towards um how you ride it.

um trying to cut down on reckless riding, uh riding wheelies under the influence, um and and allowing them to not use the class 3es on their mixeduse paths. Glendale by far has the most uh restrictive and comprehensive. Uh they have age restrictions uh for for each of the classes. They also have equipment requirements uh to have lights um like you would for for a bike when you're riding at nighttime. Um they have behavioral regulations uh for reckless riding.

They have enforcement fines um that could climb to uh $500 within a 12-month period depending on how many times you're caught. Uh they also have 15 miles per hour um limits within the parks and a requirement to yield to pedestrians. So with all of that, it I can't imagine how they how they enforce any of most of this because they're not sitting out with radar guns checking for 15 mph speeds in the parks.

um you know and one person's thought of a yield on a on a mixeduse path u versus anothers I'm sure we get plenty of calls that hey someone's here doing this right now getting out there to get to them again becomes a a a difficult task. Um, so it's one of those things that that we really want to make sure that we're thinking about as we're we're coming up with a plan um to where it is enforcable and it's not a thousand calls to get a couple of people um that you actually catch.

Uh we'd much rather have it be something where it's enforcable on a driveby and being able to see what's going on uh within the parks andor the streets. So, here's some options um that we can look into. One is just to follow the Arizona law. Uh the pros of that would be that it's simple. There's minimal enforcement burden. Um and there's uh and it it's consistent with the state law.

Of course, that doesn't solve the issues that we're we're seeing with um our residents concerns about the speeds and the conflicts that we're seeing on the streets and in the parks. Another option is to uh do a path and trail classification where we allow certain classes of ebikes on our mixed use paths, our shared use paths, uh our sidewalks. Uh and we still stay away from allowing uh the ebikes on our trails.

I personally think that that if we start allowing them into the into the preserve, we'll we'll run into more problems than what um than what we have now, for sure. Another option to look into is uh doing an age restriction. And this would uh not allow, and there's two different ways that I've seen it done. One is to not allow anyone under 14 to be on an ebike. Uh another another version that I seen done was uh to allow them on class twos and threes.

Uh not not to allow them on class twos and threes, sorry, but to allow them on the class ones. Um, this does, uh, address the concerns about the younger riders and and seeing the, um, the way that they ride around and not knowing, uh, the rules and or not caring about the rules or a combination of the two. Um, this again is more difficult to enforce because it's very hard to see someone with a helmet on and go, he's probably 10 or 15 or 12. Um so it it is very difficult to enforce.

Um another option is that we do uh a combination of the two where we set an age restriction and we set a location restriction where we're not allowing um the class 3es on the shared use paths, the sidewalks or the natural surfaces. um as as we saw in option two. And um but we are allowing class ones and twos to be able to be ridden um on our uh shared use paths and our sidewalks.

Uh, and one of the things that that I've noticed more so recently is I am seeing more and more um older people that aren't maybe able to ride bikes as much and now they're riding ebikes and getting out and using them. And so we want to be cautious of that as well as as we're having these discussions and think about um um it's going to affect everyone that are on these bikes.

you know, if we're not allowing them in parks or if we're not allowing them in on sidewalks, then that's going to also affect um it'll affect everyone that's using these. Um, another option is to um follow the rules of the road for um uh of the state for the road usage and to uh not allow any ebikes in parks at all. Um it's a simple um way to do it. It's easy to enforce because if you see an ebike, then they're not allowed to be in there.

Uh, but it is very restrictive and it doesn't address the street writing concerns. With that, I'll open it up to have some discussions around it and see how we want to move forward. Thank you, Mayor. So, what are the problems you're hearing currently? Well, and I want to ask regular bicycles that they're allowed in the park and on the sidewalks going down the avenue. Yes.

But we've allowed uh it was a council directive before my time here to allow bikes on all of our sidewalks both in in and out of the parks. And I know a lot of people like to walk around the park. Is there issues with the bikes running people over? Um I won't say running over. We we have had complaints o over the years of bikes being on the path and riding too fast or uh not being courteous of people that are walking by.

Is there issues on the sidewalks like on the avenue of the fountains where people walk up and down there? We having problems there. That's probably the one spot that I haven't ever had a complaint on is on the avenue. Where where's the most complaints? Uh Fountain Park would be where we get the Fountain Park. Okay. So, what you do you think regular bikes are okay there? Maybe not ebikes in parks. It's definitely one option that that we could do.

Um, like I said, it does make it easy to enforce and to keep an eye out for. Um, it this is really a a council decision. Like I said, I've seen it done so many different ways and I don't think that any of them are perfect. And so it it's just really a matter of of our town and the feel that we have here. Uh the the damage that the ebikes that that some of the kids have been riding and doing donuts on in our infields and and tearing up some of our granite areas has definitely been a concern.

Um it's tailed off a little bit here recently the damage wise uh from what it was right after Christmas when I think a lot of them may have been given away. Um so um that's a good thing but we are getting ready to go into summer and we'll see if it picks right back up again now that the kids will be out of school. So I'm not familiar with the ebikes but I was looking at those. But can they be just pedal only? You don't have any of the power on? Um they're they're class one, two, or three.

Not in not in B. If they're an ebike as you pedal the motoral could you just pedal without the motor on? Yes. So there could be a you have to pedal in the park once you get out of the park. You can Well, when you're when when you're pedaling, it kicks the motor in as well. So you you have a tough time you can't disconnect that seeing that. Okay. Thank you. Kevin, thank you very much for um your presentation. I was on late and I appreciate all the in-depth information.

Um, I read through some of the statutes and I happen to like Glendale's in the sense that it's pretty thorough as far as it, you know, gives you definitions, definitions for the bike, it covers drugs, alcohol, the whole nine yards. However, you say that's really difficult to enforce. Now, from my vantage point, I don't know what you know and what the sheriff's department know about the damage and enforcing, you know, what we need to enforce.

So I think from my perspective what is it you're trying to solve and then we can look at which option or which one is best given our community what you're trying to solve and what they can enforce. And another question, I'm just asking, you know, all of them right now, is do you I noticed that the Glendale one has fines. So, I mean, I know the 14-year-olds don't have ID cards or, you know, age, you know, cards, etc. So, that's going to be tough to judge.

You're just going to have to believe them. But I guess what I'm asking you for personally is a little bit of direction on what problem we're trying to solve so that we can weigh in as to what option might be the best option to help you manage the situation. Okay. Yeah. So I mean this was a uh directed from council for us to go out and find some information on because of complaints that had been filed by uh residents here in town.

um as well as our parks department seeing the damage that they're causing in the parks. Um and um I'd have to let Captain Thomas speak to what they're seeing on the on the streets and and roads and uh issues that have come up with that as well. Um, as far as to the parks, it it's it's more of the destruction destructive nature of uh the bikes that have caused the most damage here lately for us.

Um, and having the the the the ebikes being in the parks and and ridden through areas that they shouldn't be ridden in, um, causing plant damage and and turf damage and things like that. So, would you prefer that they not be allowed in the parks or be very restricted in in the parks? Yeah, I think in an ideal world, I I would I I like the age restriction idea. Um, knowing how difficult that is to um to enforce.

I don't know that that that would be something that we could put it out there, but I don't know that we're going to get the effect that we're looking for out of doing it by age. Um, and so with that, I would probably lean towards no ebikes in the parks and that would solve that side of the problem. Um, they're not allowed on dirt p on hiking paths or anything like that. Correct. They are not. They're already not allowed on that. So, we are not Okay. Okay.

So, um, I guess getting back to the parks. So, do you not want to allow them in the parks? I mean are there reasonable restrictions if it's too cumbersome to not allow them in the parks etc that we can apply in any of these options that you've given us or no? Um if I I'm not sure I'm understanding your question. So are you asking if we can if eliminate them in parks? If if we if we just eliminated them with within the parks and that would take care of the park side of the problem.

we would just enforce no ebikes in the parks. The issues that have been reported on the roadways and and cutting in and out of traffic and those sort of things, that would be a different, you know, would be a different option. Okay. So, we could add that and the streets and being able to enforce that, put down on the parks, maybe have an age restriction. So, I mean, that's a good start, you know. Thank you for that direction. I appreciate it. Okay.

So, I knew if I called enough times, you'd finally get the message. My question really is this isn't is one of enforcement. You really don't you and your staff really don't have an enforcement ability. So, it falls back on MCSO. How are they going to enforce it? And there's an overriding concept that applies to ebikes, bicycles, and so on. Anybody that rides on the street that they have to follow traffic laws. We're having a difficult time now doing that.

Um I don't like bikes in in the park or skateboards, you know, and that kind of stuff. They I've seen too many almost. Not not any accidents per se, but almost. So, I'm more of a proponent to ban them from the park and keep them on the streets in the bike lanes. And if parents allow them to ride in the streets, it's easier for MCSO to enforce at that point. They can see them.

They're more they're more visible, but keep them off of the the park areas and and they're already from banned from the from the paths and trails. So, that's where I would go. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, yeah, thanks for bringing this up tonight. This is something that I I think all all the council members do hear from the general public. Um, matter of fact, we just got a an email today address to the whole council on, you know, what we're going to do about it.

And I I let them know that hope you're listening out there to listen in because we're going to be talking about tonight. Um, you know, it's one of those things you just want to get it just right. You know, like the three bears, I I I do want to regulate. I don't want to overregulate. Um, but I'm not sure if if I have the information that I need from MCSO, what's more problematic? And council member McMahon state said this, do we have to identify what the real problems are?

So, to me, the analysis would be let's identify what the biggest problems are. Um, let's let's talk to the experts. And in my opinion, that would be um MCSO, members from the parks department.

And I'd also like to schedule, if possible, an open house at the community center, invite the public and let them come in there and and and and tell us and tell the staff what they perceive as the biggest problems because if if we get that kind of input from the the the parks people that are out there, the sheriff's department who deals with this all the time, and then from the residents to tell us where they're identifying that their major concerns, then I think we could bring this up back in the fall and and go into it really eyes open and knowing just just what we have to regulate, just what the concerns are without overregulating it.

And so, you know, to to to me, um, I I love the fact we're discussing this, but I I just want to have the information from all concerned principles and players of what they would like to see us draft and then have the the town staff put something together. uh again maybe what you did tonight u the minimum one more one more and I think that that'd be a good deploy and then we can vote um with more knowledge so that would be my suggestion thank you Mr.

mayor and director uh Snipes, I think you may have communicated this, but the biggest complaint from your department and maybe townwide is more so the certain riders that are doing donuts or damaged equipment, damaging fields, effectively vandalism. Right. Okay. So, the way I look at that, that is a vandalism issue, not a ebike issue.

Uh, and I don't know if there are, you know, what legal remedies are, but um, requiring helmets and age restrictions and stickers on the bikes doesn't stop vandalism. Uh, and then kind of on that point on this issue, many issues, I'm fundamentally a libertarian. I'd prefer to have as little regulation as possible. And I'm also someone I don't currently own a ebike. I hadn't passed, but I mountain bike. I like to do wheelies. I like to jump. I like to do endos, you know, things like that.

Um, so maybe I'm a small age hooligan. Um, so I understand the activity and I and I don't want to take away from it, but I also know there's a lot of people in our town that are maybe not as physically capable. They go up huge hills and they have changed over ebikes have been very popular and I think there's a lot of people that they don't own two bikes anymore. Maybe once upon a time they did, but a lot of times they've gone on ebike and that's fine.

There was a question uh from the council about the pedal assist. Most ebikes you can turn that off or it's setting, you know, you have just a tiny bit, a little bit more. And there's also the time when the battery runs out and then it is just a regular bicycle. Uh there's also another issue is that they tend to be a little heavier.

And I think there are places that it is a little inappropriate and if you're not going to be rude to other people, if you're riding around the path in the fountain, it's not a great place to be one riding a bicycle at all or an ebike. Um, have I done it? Yes. Have I done it when a lot of people are there? I try not to, right? I mean, you can you can understand when it's respectful and when it isn't, right?

If if it's no one around and you're just trying to get to one side of the other, it's probably not a big deal. Um, so I think that's probably what the issue is is that there's there are some people that are either don't have that self-awareness or are being disrespectful. And then there's we have the vandals. Um, so I would prefer to to tread as lightly as we can. Uh, and I know that I know this is a very popular item in town.

I I have a feeling that I'm in a minority on this, but if we go too much, are we gonna get into a nightmare of enforcement?

and you know like age limits like I'm sorry people we can vote with an ID in Arizona kids with 14 year olds aren't walking around IDs okay voters don't have IDs here in Arizona uh so how do we enforce that it means we wouldn't um so I mean we can't do something we can't enforce uh also as I mean I I'm a little bit interested in the subject uh but I have seen ebikes that advertise being the fastest ebike in the world and they'll give you a stack of stickers and it's a sticker that is appropriate for the trail you want to be on, right?

So, even if it's a class one and your ebike will do 40 miles an hour, you can put the class one sticker on there, right? You know, how do how do you enforce that? And then, do we really want to be the town that go, well, let's peel what's underneath your sticker. I mean, that is not the town I want to be part of. Um, I I prefer to just ask people to be respectful. Uh, and um, I think there's got to be ways that we can deal with, you know, people vandalizing the park by doing donuts and stuff.

Uh, I am surprised that the current policy and directive was that a lot of these bicycles are on sidewalks. Uh, I don't, again, I don't know if that's wholly no one around no big deal, but if there's people using sidewalks, I don't think it's appropriate to zoom by them at 20 miles an hour. You know, people, you know, could get hurt and it's it's not respectful. and they tend to be a bill bigger and heavier, you know, stuff like that. I don't think it's an issue with adults. Maybe I'm wrong.

That' be just an issue with kids. Some of it might be trying to get the parents to crack down. I would be curious of um uh what the captain has to say on enforcement. Like I don't think it's going to be code enforcement that goes and does it. I don't think it's going to be the parks department that goes force it. It's going to be the MCSO. What tools do they need and what real issues are there? Um, you know, I think there's a couple different issues. One is the vandalism.

There are kids that are on emotos that are zipping in and out of traffic and could get hurt. Um, unfortunately, you can't legislate everything. I mean, if you're going to do that, you require everyone to wear uh like motorcycle leathers and helmets and stuff. Um, you know, cars have to be padded. So, we can't regulate that either. So, um I don't have all the answers, but I mean I'm willing to listen to a consensus. Uh I think that Scottsdale scalees got a better thing.

U now you did the current policy is none of the uh dirt trails any bike is allowed on them. So like no bicycles are ebikes. So let's say let's say um the fountain overlook trail you can ride a mountain bike up and down there. Um it's a little tight for mountain bikes. I don't think that one that one is not on our we we have trails that are bike that you are allowed mountain biking.

So like I personally I've gone to O Daryl Canyon and I've if you go north that's fine for mountain biking right but some of the trails are real tight that would be there some of them are more difficult to use a mountain bike or even ebike but then if there's other hikers that becomes an issue right um I just don't want to have a heavy-handed uh I understand if this council wanted to um limit the use especially the fountain park is is that number one complaint place the fountain park I would say it's the number one pedestrian to bicycle location but the damage from ebikes is probably maxed out at at four peaks at four peaks and and that's just a purely damage um yeah are there I know the mayor is a avid bicyclist post.

Are there trails at Four Peaks that are appropriate for that? I I I think of walking trails and playground equipment, baseball diamonds. Um, you know, the obviously the tennis courts, I don't think of of appropriate bicycle trails that have one of the things that we that we've done here is we've we've built 10 foot wide sidewalks for multi-use. Those are new, aren't they? And so that's that's attractive to hoods. It is.

Well, it's also attractive to kids learning how to ride bikes, and we're not against that. It's it's the speed of and knowledge of how to control the bike that they just get sent out into the world and go, "Hey, go ride." And you ride as fast as you can. You do windows, you do jumps, and you do what you can do. I did when I was a kid, for sure. I mean, is it possible to craft something tight about those hightra park areas? Um, it doesn't have to even be class two, but class one, two, you know.

I don't know. And that's it. I mean, I I just don't want to I don't want to become the the town that is so restrictive that we're not fun. There's definitely um places that allow class one and twos in in their parks and they don't allow class threes. That's that's something that that has been written. Again, it's tough to enforce like we talked about. Yeah.

Uh and so, like I said, this is a very difficult conversation because it's so hard to there's so many different steps, at least with with the mopeds. They were pretty much the same. You know, there wasn't much difference in them. And so, once you set a guideline, you could go, "Yep, that's a moped." It's very easy to have an ebike or electric bike with quite a bit of power. uh nowadays. Yeah, they tweak them where they take the governors off of them and all sorts of stuff.

And I do want to point I was talking to a few people on the other side over there about maybe mountain biking in the state trust land. Um and we have a very awesome town manager that might be helping facilitate that. So uh so there I mean there's more opportunity. You don't have to be running over people to have fun, right? So I I just look if we could craft something very very narrow um that would be something that you know would be more interesting to me. Okay.

Would you be okay with restricting them from a fountain park? That's a high pedestrian high pedestrian area. Yeah, Mr. Mayor, I I think it's highly inappropriate to be riding around Fountain Park when there's people there. The only issue is is that if nobody's there, does it bother anybody? And I can't craft an ordinance, right? It doesn't work. Oh, you can ride your bicycle there when it's appropriate. We'll put a sign up that says there's 12 people in the park. You can't ride now.

Yeah, that that's the problem. Now, I I think it's highly inappropriate. I mean, it doesn't even need to be that many people walking around.

if you're zipping by pedest pedestrians and a 20 m per hour ebike and frankly that it's you know it's challenging to get up to 20 curving but even you know 15 miles an hour someone walking at 3 miles an hour and an ebike zipping by 2 in away at 50 miles an hour it doesn't mix well right uh I I was hoping more people would have common sense mayor yes ma'am Thank you. Uh Kevin, would we be able to um maybe considering an ordinance to bridge this gap? Right.

We we might not want to completely ban it for the elderly that these help them get around, but at the same time, we need to control some of the crazy. Are we able to put something like reckless driving in there and that would include ebikes, bikes, scooters, whatever, and just give MCSO a little bit of leeway to say like, hey, if someone's being crazy, they're able to do something about it. Or is that not really a real realistic stipulation we could add?

Well, I would say that when you start going down that line, then I would say it's crazy for someone to ride and jump and do a backflip on a bike, but the person that's doing it goes, "No, it's just a Wednesday and that's what we do." Um, so I think as soon as you start trying to determine what that is, now you could do, you know, like reckless riding like there's Scottsdale has taken that approach of no wheelies and um, they put some restrictions like that on it.

Um, so yeah, you could do something along those lines. You'd have to be specific on what you are and aren't allowing. Okay, thank you. Um, and as for the vandalism issue, do you have a ballpark figure of how much that has cost the town so far? I don't. It's It's a lot of man-hour more so than it is property damage. Um, like when you dig a four or five inch deep hole into a infield of a ball field, it takes time to get that cleaned back up and put back together.

and then it happens again the next night and then the next night and then the next night that starts to to calculate into a good amount of time that the guys are spending on stuff like that or trails where they're throwing rocks out onto the sidewalk so you're having to to blow off the sidewalk and then shovel it back up the hill that takes time. So it's it's a lot more time damage than than say someone doing graffiti or something like that where uh there's actual monetary cost to it.

Okay, thank you. Um, and just to add to previous comments, I agree. I don't want to be overly heavy-handed. I want Fountain Hills to be fun for kids, but I also want it to be safe for, you know, all ages. Um, living near Four Peaks Park, I've been doing a lot of walking around there lately and I will say, um, I have seen some questionable decisions when it comes to crossing the road or, um, I'm being as polite as I can about it.

But, um, I know kids kids are kids and they're gonna want to drive it as fast as they can. And that's what's kind of scary about these ebikes is I think these companies on the broad scale are not taking a lot of responsibility for how dangerous they can be. I saw um the fairly recent story of unfortunately the child that was killed in um an accident with a vehicle and how that woman has been really pushing for legislation now on ebikes.

I um I I don't mean to ramble on it, but I do want to see how we can put up just reasonable barriers on this without being overly heavy-handed, but maybe just enforce some of the rules that maybe should have been designed into the bike in the first place. Like if we could not necessarily a speed limit, but if we could allow for MCSO to have some common sense and enforcement. I think I'd like to see some looser language that allows us to let them make a judgment call.

Mayor, can I suggest I mean this is this is obviously a very in-depth conversation with a lot of nuance to it. Would it make sense to bring this back as a work session or for another time where we may have a little more um discussion and input? Just a suggestion. Yes, let's let's do that. I'll make a motion to table until we have a work session. Thank you very much. Do we need to vote on that? I just we just need direction. Yeah, we'll we'll take that direction and go from there.

Maybe we need a sheriff to bring back the posi to wash the park. Thank you, mayor. We did have one speaker. Oh. Oh, okay. Shelby Blacker. Come on down. Um, good evening, Mr. Mayor, council members. Shelby Blacker, Fountain Hill resident. I'm going to take a little bit different approach to this. Um, when you consider the regulations for ebikes and emoto, please consider the handout that I provided all of you regarding the hidden dangers of ebikes. You should have all gotten these today.

This was written by the American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons. Orthopedic and Trauma surgeons report a drastic surge in severe ebike injuries due to the devices high speeds and heavy weight. Ebike accidents differ fundamentally from traditional bike crashes, more closely mirroring small motorcycle uh collisions. Doctors frequently treat complex and high energy fractures and traumatic brain injuries that typically require immediate surgery.

Now, ebikes certainly are fun and a convenient alternative to cars or for exploring our hilly community. Unfortunately, the dangers that come with high speeds aren't always communicated to the users, making it necessary to form regulations. We certainly need to keep them off of the sidewalks, out of the parks, and put them in the streets and designated bike lanes we have in town. A collision between an ebike and a pedestrian will have tragic consequences.

So, I would advocate for the most restrictive policy, similar to Glendale. Whether it's enforceable or not, that's on MCSO. But if you don't have the policy, you can't enforce it. And I've heard somebody else comment about the fact that maybe we can put 14 year olds into a class and require some type of licensing for them that they can carry in town. So there are alternatives, but I didn't hear any of you really talk about the severity of the injuries that are happening with ebikes. Thank you.

Thank you. Moving on to item E, public hearing. I'm going to open up a public hearing with uh possible action regarding ordinance 2611 amending the zoning ordinance chapter 6 sign regulation section 6.08A drive-thru sign to increase the allowed size of these signs. So, I've opened the public hearing. Uh Rachel, thank you, mayor. I'll turn this directly over to Director Wesley to walk us through tonight's the uh details of the ordinance. Mayor Council, good to be with you this evening.

I'll try to keep this uh quick. It's a fairly simple topic and you've had a long evening. So, as stated, we're looking at a potential change in chapter six of the zoning ordinance, which deals with signs. Uh signs we can regulate by time, place, and manner provisions, but not by content. As you're aware, there's a major update done of the sign code in 2021 to become compliant with those requirements.

When we did that, uh, we did not make any changes in terms of the size requirements related to drive-thru signs or the signs you have a menu board as you go to a drive-through restaurant. We've had some, uh, questions come up, concerns about about our current regulations that they're a little bit restrictive, and so we've taken a look at that to see if there is a possibility of making some changes.

So, here's the basics of our current regulations for drive-through signs with a basic description of where they can be and the parameters uh, that they can operate under. The primary ones of concern or interest here are the limitation on 20 square feet and 5 feet in height. Looking around the valley, we see that others have larger sizes. Here we found these two specifically. It gets a little bit complicated since you can't regulate based on uh type of sign. So communities do it differently.

These two I could identify as being directly comparable. Then also just looking at general industry standards for how big these boards typically are. Um and so you see the different types there between the small, medium, and the large. So with that information in mind, we went to the planning and zoning commission and discussed some options with them.

And based on that discussion, it's staff in the planning zoning commission's recommendation that we increase from 20 square feet to 30 square feet and from 5t of height to seven feet of height in these signs. And so this gives you a kind of a relative comparison of the current uh 20 square foot the 30 square foot. So with that, mayor council, any questions? Thank you, M. Who asked for this? Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. Sorry. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Uh are we have a bunch of drive-through businesses in town. Is everybody compliant with the current 20 square foot rule or are there some that are because they just seem normal to me? U mayor, council member, uh we did not go back out and measure what's there. We've had the same regulation for many years. So my assumption is that they are all compliant with the and then Mr. Mayor Director Wesley um you mentioned that someone said that we were a little small.

Was that a business owner or what was the circumstance? uh mayor, council members specifically, it's the Dairy Queen that's uh preparing to come occupy. They're actually looking for something even a little bit larger than this, but we're can work with the 30 square feet. Thank Thank you. Thank you for answering my question. Um I'm not for this at all. I think that, you know, the signs for the Whopper or Liberals, they've worked so far. They seem to be fine.

Um, the Dairy Queen is going to be in a very small area, a very small drive-thru, and it's basically asking for a larger sign. I don't see the need for it. Um, I'm not for larger signs in this regard. Um, like I said, I think they're fine the way they are. So, I'm not for the Thank you, Mr. Mayor. the planning zoning. It's already gone through. Uh they recommended 30 square feet. Was it unanimous? Yes, it was unanimous. So the planning zoning commission unanimously said we should go to 30. Yes.

Okay. I make a motion to approve as drafted. I'll second it. All right. Before we get too far ahead here, um do we have any other comment cards template? No, ma'am. Okay. Thank you. Uh let me close the public hearing and we have a motion and a second. Um if there's no no other discussion then we'll ask for a roll call vote please. Council member Larby I. Council member Skellicorn. Yes. Council member Calavianis. I. Council member McMahon. No. Council member Watts. I. Vice Mayor Earl I.

And Mayor Fredette I. Mayor 70 61. Oops. Sorry. That's okay. Thank you. We'll move on to item F, which is consideration of possible action regarding a professional services agreement 2027-02 with bio janitorial services for townwide janitorial services. Rachel, uh, Director Wald is going to walk us through the details of this contract, but in general, we have a high level of janitorial needs throughout all of our buildings and facilities throughout town.

Um, so this was a highly competitive contract um that went through our RFP process that is here for tonight for award. Director, thank you for the introduction. Mr. Mr. Mayor, council members, this is a long process here that was done internally by the town staff through the release of a request for proposals. qualified vendors submitted for this.

And the amount of paperwork for each of us on the committee to go through and review it and look at pricing and what they're offering is challenging to say the least. I will um hats off to the rest of the committee that sat on this because they waited for me a little bit longer because I had a lot of other things that I was working on.

That said, the sta the town owns and is responsible for approximately 59,000 square feet of structures that need to be properly cleaned and presentable to the people that they represent. In order to accomplish that, we hire contractors to do that work. It seems like a lot of money annually for that type of service, but if you do the math related to hiring the people and maintaining the equipment necessary, especially the carpet cleaning equipment, the cost goes up substantially.

This company has been vetted. They met all of the qualifications. We have sat and discussed it internally numerous times as the contract was coming to an end that we've used for the last five years. This is the best bet for this community. Not only does it address the daily and nightly cleaning services, it also includes carpet cleaning for the community center and town hall.

And importantly, it includes porter service for our special events at the community center or if there isn't a big event at a park or a trail head, we have the ability to address that upfront and when it reopens the following day, it's ready to go and that is the objective here. It is a long drawn out complicated review and process and contract. You'll note that there is a very lengthy staff report designing this process or explaining this process and how we arrived at this tonight.

With that said, I will certainly do my best to answer any questions you may have related to this agreement. I assume that the same scope of work was in this RFP that we'd used previously. Mr. Mayor Council MNO, this scope of work was substantially more work from lessons learned such as stripping and clean vinyl, you know, VCT type tiles and so on. Did you just learn from your past errors or oversightes and then manage this RFP accordingly?

I I would hesitate to say errors, but oversight, yes, and demand, yes. And porter services for special events, definitely. We certainly did not make accommodations for that in the last agreement or the last two agreements over 10 years. It has simply become more of a demand on what we're doing to meet the the standards that we've adopted or that each individual facility owner or manager has adopted. Thank you. You're welcome. I'd like to make a motion to approve. Anyone to second it? Second.

Do we have any speaker cards? No, mayor. We don't. Okay. So, we have a motion and a second. Um, roll call, please. A couple questions. Sure. Is that okay? Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Injector Waldy. Um, you know, looking over it seems detail 16 biders. Uh, really appears that the RFP process worked. Um I don't have any skep you not skeptical and frankly for the breath of work the the dollar amount doesn't seem wholly appropriate.

I am curious though is there policies or there certain you know it sounds like it's a lot of restrooms right are there certain things that because the town allows more of it or the the restrooms are open longer hours or certain parks that are worse than the others. So are is there is there certain either activities or locations where it's driving more of the work? M Mr. Mayor, council member.

So, primarily the community center is one of the biggest customers that we have and that's because of the nature, its intended nature is to be a welcoming center for all ages and there are an uncountable number of programs and they are well attended. And the second one after that is special events. The town sponsors special events and those special events generate an incredible amount of debris and require cleaning.

The restroom facilities at Fountain Park or any one of the trail heads or the parks. If you walk in there and there is a problem, I would be hardressed to believe it's not already on the list to be addressed or it was simply overlooked and they're working on it very shortly. I I would argue that I would put our facilities up against any facility in this valley in regards to cleanliness and the quality um that we're expecting. And Mr.

Mayor directly, I don't think any anyone was saying it's not clean or anything like that. Um I'm I'm actually surprised that the community center is the biggest driver. I would have thought some of the parks or some place very active, you know, outside would be more of the, you know, the the the guilty party basically.

But and I'm just, you know, I'm just kind of curious because staff can, you know, if there's certain areas that are a problem or certain times of day that are problem, you know, there's there are things we can do to adjust that. But, uh, I don't think this is inappropriate. It looks like been very thorough. I mean, even mentions not having slave labor for the Weaguers. I mean, that's that's pretty thorough. So, I'm happy to approve. It's in there. There's a there's a China policy in here.

So, we have a motion and a second. Could we get a roll call, please? Council member Skellicorn. Yes. Council member Watts. Yes. Council member Larabby. I. Council member Calvianis. Hi. Council member McMahon. Hi. Vice Mayor Earl. I. And Mayor Fidell. I. Mayor 70. Thank you. And I think Justin's gonna stay here for this one, too. I think he has to get his correct paperwork. All right.

Item G is consideration and possible action regarding the purchase of a ditch witch vacuum excavator from the Charles Machine Works town manager. That is correct. Uh Justin wants to buy a ditch witch. Um if you read the staff report and he'll probably cover this, we we do have a smaller unit um of the style that is just not sufficient. Um so staff is looking to upgrade um for better for better use in the town. Justin, would you like to walk us through that? Yes.

Thank you again for the introduction and the opportunity. I've stood in front of this elected body at this location and others and explained that in public works and all the divisions in public works, we do not have any wants. Our policy is to address needs. We need to be more efficient with our what is in the professional industry referred to as a soft dig. So this is not a mechanical backhoe or trenching device. It is rather a 600galon trailer mounted vacuum cleaner with a 4in hose on it.

This piece of equipment is primarily used to excavate the areas for signs. We have in excess of 8,000 signs in this community. Some of them get knocked down. Some of them are outdated and need to be replaced. The other use is for cleaning out the small areas of drainage. We clean go in and clean out that sediment. This is where typically you cannot get mechanical equipment. It's equipped with a high-pressure washer and we have the option to also use compressed air.

So the high-pressure water essentially loosens the material up and allows it to be vacuumed. In areas where we're going to be working around electricity, we then often times switch to the high-pressure air. It's the same function, but that it eliminates the water. The town manager spoke earlier that um almost eight years ago, we purchased a relatively small one of these. It holds about a 100 gallons and we've certainly made it work.

But with the increased workload in parks and the additional stuff that the street department is doing, the capacity is simply too small. A good example, we did an audit of our water meters and our backflow preventers and we use this device to go and clean all of that material out. To clean out 15 or 20 of those requires two or three trips back to what we refer to as the bus barn.

This is an area where we place that material, allow it to dry, and then we utilize it at a later date for other things. If the parks department is using it to excavate any of their irrigation or any of their sprinkler heads, they also have to stop what they're doing and traverse the park, get back out, regardless of the location, go and dump it. All of this takes a little bit of time and is not as efficient as we would like to see.

The intent with the council's approval to purchase this tonight for which we have funding in the public works and street department is public works would primarily use this one and the smaller one which is self-contained and very efficient would then be primarily used by the parks department. So, what we're asking for is the authority to spend money on something that we need to be more efficient at what we do. With that, I'll be happy to answer any questions that I can. Thank you, Mr.

Mayor and Chucker. Wely, in current situations, do we just use the little one or do we rent a bigger one? Mayor, council member, we have not been able to find one for rent. the the nature of this type of work, the filters and stuff require a little bit of time and effort to clean and they're they don't really rent them out unless you're going to do it for a month or so. Okay.

And I I I distinctly I thought Epcore I think they use a service like I swear the guys that came out were not Epcore employees that were using it but um there I mean this is going to last a long time. The amortized cost is very low. I don't see a reason to to complain about it. So, I'll make a motion to approve. Second. Justin, do we have a a service technician that we service all this? It seems like we're acquiring more and more equipment.

Do we have technicians that are certified to maintain this or do we have to go back to the manufacturer for maintenance? Mr. Mayor, council member, the general maintenance of changing filters and cleaning it, oil, those types of things we'll do in house, but anything after that will go back to the manufacturers's representative.

Is it prudent to start thinking about having a technician that can work on all of the different equipment that we're acquiring and then get them certified so that they can do the work instead of going back to third party? Council member, we we have had that discussion internally. We lost our I didn't say we lost our fleet mechanic retired after 20 years that took care of the fleet and open space and everything else.

It's it's kind of challenging to fill that position and we're certainly still having those internal discussions, but for right now we have several people that are capable of doing a percentage of the work and the balance of it goes off to the manufacturers's representative. Thank you. You're welcome. So, we had a motion. Did we get a second? We did. Okay. Can we get a roll call, please? Just for the record, we have no speakers. Council member Larby. Hi. Council member McMahon.

Council member Skilorn. Yes. Council member Calvianis. I. Council member Watts. Hi, Vice Mayor Earl. I and Mayor Fail. I, Mayor 70. Thank you. Item H is consideration and possible action for the U Arizona Cities and Towns weekly legislative bulletin. Does anybody have anything? Go ahead. Did I hit the wrong Sorry. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I mean, well, sounds like legislator passed the budget. I haven't heard that the government governor signed it. Um, but I believe they they Oh, she did.

They they sign and die, so they have to hit it through the special session to come back. Uh, it sounds like there was some exciting things past. It was a really nice kind of um last minute gift on Friday that a lot of things passed and sounds like the governor signed a bunch of things which is new. Uh, so good moving forward. We uh we don't have to redo our taxes. Yay. Seeing nothing else, we'll move on to the uh call to the public. Do we have any speaker cards? Town clear? Yes, mayor. We do.

We have eight. Um Tiana Torion, followed by Patty Torion, followed by Linda Somo, followed by Shelby Blicker. Hello. Uh, thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Tiana Torian Wood. Um, I've resided here for over 30 years. With an election approaching, many residents are considering what our town needs most. For many, the answer is simple. Friendliness. That's what's missing from Fountain Hills these days. As a town that depends on tourism, friendliness is our bread and butter.

Friendliness is economic success. Partisan politics are the antithesis of friendliness and have no place in our local government. Issues such as naming civic spaces over controversial public figures, banning DEI initiatives, making English our official town language, and other over overtly partisan items do not communicate friendliness. They do not communicate that this town is for everyone and they do not improve our lives as residents. And the problem extends beyond policy.

When the press table is removed, when opportunities for public comment are restricted, and when disagreement is treated with contempt rather than respect, a message is sent. Some voices matter more than others. That to be heard, a citizen must first agree. That is not the kind of local government our community deserves.

Our elected officials, whoever they are, should listen to all residents and address the issues that matter most to this town rather than focusing on partisan politics and smear campaigns against their opponents. As a town, we could argue forever about who is to blame for this divisive environment. But for me, this upcoming election isn't about who started it. It's about who's willing to stop it. Thank you for your time. Next speaker. Good evening.

My name is Patty Torion and I've lived here since 1985. Okay. So, with elections coming up, um I would like to just express some concerns that I have as a resident of um things changes that I've seen in this town that really concern me. Um over the last couple of years, I believe that many in this council have succeeded in turning what used to be a government focused on town business into a partisan, divisive entity that has changed the spirit of our town.

Council members who swore to govern the town in impartial manner have instead injected their own political and religious ideology into governance. Cases in point, they strongarmmed the community center into allowing a Republican party Christmas tree. Despite the fact it's widely understood that Christmas is a non-political celebration, they attempted to pass a motion to rename the community center to honor a polarizing figure who has no connection to our town.

They ended our contract and years of partnership with Republic Waste for a company that has never that has never served a community of more than 5,500. Their research for Mr. Skelorn included noting that unlike Republic, universal waste has no DEI or human rights compliance policies which do not apparently align according to him with our town values. Find kind of surprising. Impartial research should have focused solely on service provided, reliability, and financial soundness.

We can only hope that the reduction of fees does not come with poor service and unreliability. Regardless of strong community push back, they are talking about moving the museum of time out of its space. A cultural treasure of our community located ideally along the Dark Skies Discovery Center and the library.

They changed the campaign sign placement ordinance that limited areas where these signs could be displayed to a free-for-all of signs littering our streets and allowing bigoted, hateful signage. Once again, guided by their political ideology, not by what the residents of this town want, representing us as people drive through our community. They have moved the CTP to the end of meetings. Thank you for the four hours that we all had to endure.

This really shows where you put the importance of listening to us, just listening to our thoughts and our concerns. You made us sit through this. Thank you for that. Okay. They have removed the media desk because our local paper is not always in favor of their policies.

I hope this election we will be electing and a council that returns to nonpartisan management of our town, focusing on things that benefit all residents and keep the toxic divisive ideology that we see all around on the internet and people associated with council members out of its governments. Thank you. Shelby. Good evening, Mr. Mayor, Town Council, Hills resident, a few people in town seem to have a problem with orange signs.

They claim they are vulgar, univil, and inappropriate to display on the streets of our wonderful town. Coming from the battles of LA politics, I say that it's absolutely necessary to shock people into reading and thinking about the message on these orange signs. Frankly, I disagree with all the detractors and challenge them to put forth an explanation for their opinions to go along with their oneliners that they toss out on Facebook. But let's go a step further here.

The crowd screaming for civility says nothing about the $18,327 that a council member cost the town. Instead, instantly deflecting to quote, "How much did Jerry's personal lawsuit cost us?" More false narratives in the same post. quote, "Jerry used the actual town logo in a social media ad campaign." The post says nothing about how the candidates received a cease and desist order from the town attorney, and only one refused to listen, costing the town $18,327. It wasn't Mayor Fidell.

He conformed to the order. More false narratives from a public from a prolific Facebook poster. quote, "Isn't it ironic that one of the main reasons we may not have to impose new taxes in the ar is the arrival of sprouts with new housing for residents, something Jerry and his clan voted against?" For those uninformed, there was never a vote on bringing Sprouts to town. The vote was on reszoning a parcel almost a half a mile away to allow 300 plus, mostly one-bedroom apartments to be built.

Misleading comment, I think it was. The council member herself goes to Facebook to recquote what someone else said, avoiding the problem of making the direct quote herself. Quote, "The credit for Sprouts belongs to economic development director Amanda Jacobs, Sandor Development, and the four council members who had the vision to approve resoning." Unquote. Reszoning what? Again, it wasn't for Sprouts. She continues to recote Jacobs.

quote, "Attracting Sprouts Farmers Market would not have been possible without the Fountain Hills Town Council approving zoning changes in 2004." Personally, I feel this is more than just a bit twisted since there's no formal statement by Sprouts affirming this.

Could it be possible that Sprouts, who has a store in Scottsdale on 82nd Street, simp is simply overburdened at that location and needed a second location and chose Fountain Hills not because of the 300 plus one-bedroom apartments, but because we have a higher median income shopper and this location was their best choice. The more you look into this, the clearer the manipulation becomes by the council member who just cost the town $18,327. Thank you.

The last four speakers are Leah Philippy and Jonathan Philippy, followed by Beth Culp and Jerry Butler. Good evening. I've got a point of order. Um, the clock started when she was walking up here. I think we should give her a full three minutes. I'm so sorry. Are you going to address my point of order? Good evening. My name is Leah Philippy and I recently turned 18. This year I will be voting for the first time.

When I was 11 years old, I started carrying around a pocket constitution because I wanted to understand how our country works, why every voice matters. I have always loved learning about government, history, and the people who dared to stand up for what they believed in. I am also a person with a disability. Growing up has taught me that inclusion is more about Sorry. is about more than ramps or accommodations. It is about whether people feel seen, respected, and welcomed in their own community.

Over the past few years, I have watched my little brother stand at this very podium and speak with remarkable courage. He came here to share his ideas because he believed his voice mattered. Watching adults attack his character rather than respond to his ideas was heartbreaking. It reminded me that young people pay attention not just to what adults say, but to how they treat others. I have learned that a community's character is not measured when we when everyone agrees.

It is measured by how we treat one another when we disagree. As I prepare to cast my first vote, my hope is simple. That every young person in Fountain Hills is safe to participate, ask questions, share their views without fear of personal attacks. I hope that my ex that the example my generation inherits is one of respect, kindness, and the belief that every person deserves to be heard. Thank you very much. Good evening, Mayor and Council.

My name is Jonathan David Phillippy, and it's been a little while since I've spoken before you. I've been busy finishing my sixth straight honor role semester and completing an early entry engineering college course. School has been my priority and I'm proud of what I've accomplished. I also stepped back from speaking for a while because something happened that I wasn't prepared for.

Instead of simply disagreeing with my ideas, some adults publicly attacked my character, my family, and questioned my abilities without ever even speaking to me. As a 13-year-old, that was difficult to understand. Tonight, I'm not here to debate publicly. I'm here to ask something much simpler. Please remember that every meeting and political action teaches the next generation what leadership looks like. On the 4th of July, I'll turn 14. In just four years, I'll be able to vote.

My mother's sister just turned 18, and she'll be and she'll be voting just for the first time. Watching our community has shown both of us that participating in democracy matters. Growing up in Fountain Hills, I learned that this is a community where character counts. We were taught that respect isn't something we show only when we agree with only with what we agree with. It's something we show everyone and everything.

The Luber Viche Rebi taught, "In a time of increasing darkness, we must increase the light." Tonight, I'm asking you to be that that light. Not because we all ha have to agree, but because every meeting teaches my generation what leadership looks like. Please, please let what we learn from you be respect, character, and courage. Thank you for your time. I just have to say that I think that was the most remarkable series of disrespectful events I've ever seen in a town council meeting.

You know, all these people are waiting here to speak. Council member Skilicorn is allowed to speak for 15 minutes about his adventures on ebikes while we wait. Meanwhile, Council Member Calibayanakis, Council Member McMahon, if they ever speak more than two minutes on any topic, they get the gavl. On top of that, we have two young people coming up here. And I watched, mayor, as you started the clock, as they approached, 30 seconds had elapsed by the time one woman, the young woman got up here.

20 seconds elapsed by the time the young man got up there. When when council member Kavayanakis called a point of order, you shut her down with a gavvel. and the second time you shut her down with the sharpest gavvel I've heard and I've some heard some sharp ones in this deis from this deis. I want to talk now about the fact that it's apparent that the majority on this town council does not care what 40% of the people in this town think about.

The people that aren't interested in culture wars, the people that want to know answers about why Republic Services was terminated. And when council member Kavayanakis tried to go into that, she was shut down just like she shut down tonight. This is wrong. We see what's happening. We see that whenever we speak, you take time from us. You find excuses to shut us down.

Shelby Blacker stands up there and personally attacks Council Member Calivia when that is not allowed by the rules of procedure that this town council enacted. But it's okay when they do it. But if I do it, if I criticize Jennifer Wright, I'll get gave. I will get gave. You have to start equally enforcing the rules. Mayor, we see you. We see the lack of transparency. We see the 25 executive sessions when you said you didn't foresee any.

When Council Member Watts said he was going to bring them bring some kind of a resolution forward that would limit executive sessions to personnel matters. This has got to change. It can't go on since you've had five on the majority. Every time there is a contested vote, the same pattern is followed. Council member Skillicorn invokes the call of the question. He suspends the rules. That should be an extraordinary measure.

You allow him to do it and you all support him in doing that to shut down discussion. You've done it on every single controversial point for one reason and one reason only. So, we can't hear from the people who represent us and we're tired of it. Now, I will respond to you since you did call me out personally. Most of these e sessions that we're dealing with are because of some of the nonsense that you created personally. May I respond? No, you may not. Okay.

And secondly, and secondly, the interruptions by Councilwoman Khali Vianis are not going to be tolerated. If that lady who was disabled needed more time, I was prepared to give her the time. She does not need to interrupt the meeting to do that. Next speaker, please. I see five seconds have already elapsed as I tried to walk up here. I'm 86 years old. I would hope you give me a little bit more time. We'll give you five seconds. We'll give you 10 if you need it. My name is Jerry Butler.

I've not been here in a long time. I'm Fountain Hills property owner, 27year full-time resident. For the last 25 years, I've been a community volunteer doing many things to advance this community. My background is civil engineering and as you might assume, my most recent volunteer commitment has been for the citizens advisory streets committee that was made up of 12 nonpartisan residents with a combined experience of 250 years addressing the needs of our streets.

Tonight, I'm here to talk about streets on two fronts. want to express my disappointment for cancelling the street workshop that was scheduled for earlier today and to commend our town staff for the work they did in preparing for that workshop. Now, regarding the workshop itself and the presentation that was presented or available as a member of the streets committee, I spent 20 months exploring all aspects of the network.

And based on my engineering background, I want everyone here and watching to know that our town staff did an amazing job preparing for the workshop. The information that was ready to be presented was very thorough and to the staff, thank you. Regarding the second point, my disappointment. After three years of silence since the streets committee filed its report, I was looking forward to today's workshop and must ask why was it cancelled and when will it be rescheduled?

The reason for these two questions is our streets, which happen to be the community's largest asset, are deteriorating at a rapid rate. When the committee filed its report, I want to quote, it stated, "Without significant additional revenues, street the street network maintenance levels cannot be achieved, which means streets will continue to deteriorate, creating failing conditions from which the town cannot possibly recover. Unfortunately, that statement is correct.

Even though many millions of dollars have been ejected in the street network in the last three years, it's not enough. Case in point is three years ago, our backlog for poor and very poor streets represented 5.4% of the network. Today, it's nearly double at 10.4%. Four years ago, Mr. Skellicorn, you had a roads first program and promised to find needed streets, needed street funds from the existing revenues. How's that gone? Are you proud of what's been accomplished?

To Mayor Fredell, based on your financial background, where do you foresee finding more revenues to fix our streets? In closing, why was the workshop cancelled and when will it be rescheduled? Time is of the essence. Our streets continue to deteriorate daily. They are nonpartisan. Thank you. I'll answer your question. I think we're going to try and bring bring that back soon. Yeah. Yeah. It's not an agenda item, but we will bring it back. Are we ready to ask for something agenda items?

Is that next? Is that the last speaker? Yes. Okay. Thank you. I'd like to do it. Do we have any comments for the town manager? I do. You do? Okay. Um, I did have one prepared already. So, I did I would like to request that the street repair research work session be rescheduled as soon as possible and and because staff has been preparing for this session and was anticipating this summer to continue that work. So, I'd like to get to it and look forward forward to what the work you've done.

Thank you. Anything else for the town manager? We'll move on to uh future agenda items. Anybody have anything? Can I get a motion to agenda? Oh, go ahead. Thank you. Yes. As far as a future agenda item is concerned, um I share Mr. Butler's concerned. Um without any explanation given to me whatsoever, this the workshop was pulled today. when we're talking about fixing the roads, we better talk about how we're going to fix the roads.

So, I would like to call tonight on the first town council meeting after the break to either put the workshop back in order on the first day or to make this an agenda item for discussion only so we can talk about how to fix the roads in a practical sense. Can I get a second? Can I get a third? He's talking about the roads. Point of information. Wasn't that already requested? Yes, it was. It was already requested. Okay. Can I get a motion? Second. All in favor? I I