Cave Creek establishes committee to acquire and preserve 4,000 acres state trust land through 2039

I'll just say a few words and hope on all of you. I know a lot of each other so that's great. Um but what what what I'd like to do is after I done uh doing my introduction and uh you hear me? Um we'll have each of you um just say your name. um and um hopefully um what your interest is in this process and what you hope to accomplish. You know, don't want to make it too complicated. So, um Grady Miller, I'm town manager. Um looking forward to working with all of you.

I think this is a great process. It's it's one of the more important issues that we've had in a long time related to preservation of our open space, particularly the state trust land. Um, I'd like to introduce, as everyone knows, quite a few people know Luke Palsman. He's our um, development services director and he's going to be the lead staff involved in this process. And number of you probably also know uh, Bambi Muller.

Um, she's been our trails uh, coordinator and she's been involved in um, securing trails over the years and um, is going to be really like a technical step on this process. We also have um our town attorney uh Bill um Bill Sims. He's going to um have a a small portion of the agenda today regarding open meetings. And so he's here and so once we get to that item then he will take over that. I'm going to turn it over to you Luke because I know you have a few words as well. Yeah, that's fine.

Um thank you everyone for being here. Um Luke Hzman, development services uh director for the town. I've been with the town 20 years. Started as an intern. Uh born and raised in Cave Creek. Um fortunate or not. Um just happy to um work with you all. Uh we've got some binders that we've we've prepared. We'll hand those out at the end of the meeting so we're not constantly rifling through. We can kind of focus on getting to know each other a little bit um and getting this started.

So really what what the uh committee scope and purpose is, I'll read it. The purpose of this committee is to study and evaluate the future disposition of approximately 4,000 acres of state trust land zoned open space recreation and open space conservation and present the committee's findings and recommendations to the town council to consider what staff has done because of the size of the group. Um you know, some of you have worked on groups in the past that have been seven to nine members.

Uh this is rather large. So, we've we've kind of selected different areas of focus that maybe we can uh form some working groups and we'll spend a little bit of time trying to do that today. Um, I know that there are some some members that I recognize not being here. Um, so we'll we'll try to get them, you know, up to speed as we move along. Um, that's that's just a little bit about me and a little bit about this group. If we want to start maybe down at the end, John, and Sure.

go ahead and uh as best we can speak into the one one of many mics pulled out of a hat earlier. Hi, my name is John Carbone. I've lived in Cave Creek since 2016. Uh I live out near Spur Cross. Um I've been involved in municipal finance for 40 years. So MUN bonds uh are kind of my specialty. So hopefully I can bring some of that to the committee. Glad you're here. stereo I guess. My name is Bill Basor. I've been in residence since 2011.

In part, you folks are here because when they had the call to public at the counsel, I suggested the council. This would be a really good committee on. So, if this goes well, you can thank me. Goes badly. Well, give me a head start. Uh previously uh, under Stacy's leadership, I was part of the trail committee and that was very successful and we we did a lot of good.

And in the process of doing the trail committee, what we did was we learned about the inventory of open space and where the trails were at. And uh, we're going to see some other open space that the town owns that you may not even be aware of. And so I felt that uh that was something that I could bring to the party was that that knowledge of where the trails were, where the space is. Unknown caller. Thank you. There's a wireless mic at that end too.

If we just want to pass a little pass, we can do that. Wait. Hello. Hi. I'm Stacy Daniel. Um my husband and I bought um our five acres up near on Kahava Ranch Road in 2004 and we've moved here permanent residence since 2008 and um had never really had an interest in knowing what was going on and uh with the town um come to some of the council meetings. But when the trails committee happened, I I got very interested and so I was lucky enough to be able to lead that to a good conclusion.

Um, and I feel like this is a natural progression to that with with getting the open space. Um, I'm got a background of graphic design. I am a graphic designer currently and I feel I can add some um use my talents toward one of those committees. Thank you. Okay. I'm Carol Perry. I've lived in Cave Creek since 1992. Um, I was heavily involved in chasing down the whole town to vote for the spur cross vote and um, even rented a van to drive all my neighbors to town to vote that day.

And my skill set there was best used having neighborhood forums and talking to people about why it was so important to save Spur Cross. It was easier than we thought because it's so iconic up there. I don't think this is any different. I think we should still be able to do a really excellent job of convincing the citizens how important it is to save this land. And if it takes a property tax to do it, we did it once, we can do it again.

We have the proof that when we say it's for this and then it's over, that we held to that. So the people who we had a lot of challenges last time, people saying, "Oh, what'd you have a property tax? You never let it go." Well, we did let it go. So we have that in our pocket to to use this time around. Um, so the skills I would offer are talking again to our neighbors, our people in wherever we can to get them on board. You want me Barbara? Sorry, I I don't know how.

Well, usually committee meetings, I try to plan my dentist appointment during the I was a longer. What are we doing? This Barbara Miller. Well, I was an old PE teacher. So, you can hear me. So, why I was interested?

because I live on Saddle Mountain Road and I was introduced to this concept by a um another agent in our office and I thought that would be really good to get involved but I've hiked and I've lived up there for 25 years so very interested in what's having happen happening for those of you that don't know that's where the Gaba Ranch thing is. So wanted to make sure going forward how we're dealing with that. I'm Karen Tits. I moved out to Arizona in 2015. Originally I was over in Dale Lane.

I now live in the Sara West area where I purchased a property in 2017, I believe it was. So, I volunteered for this committee because I would like to become more active in the town as it develops. I have not previously been on a committee, but um I do have a business. I work for the Maricopa County Superior Courts and um so I have 13 employees at my disposal and I may fit best in the community outreach and perhaps drafting of uh documents and things of that nature if that would be beneficial.

But I'm anxious to learn about the entire process. Hi. Uh, my name is Marcy Kreman. I live up on Grapevine Road. Been in the neighborhood generally for about 22 years. Um, and I'm think this is an incredible opportunity for Cape Creek and I just wanted to be a part of it for, you know, bragging rights, I guess. Um, or not, you know, if you have to get out of out of there fast. But um I think I I have a sales and um management background.

I'm not sure about, you know, which committee I might be best on, but I can certainly lend whatever, you know, assets I have. Happy to do it with everybody. Glad to be a part of it. Paul Deependerper, been visiting out here for 50 years. moved up here in the early 90s. Served on council for a few years and uh I'm just looking to help out keep Cave Creek keep it creaker. Hi. Um my name is Kathleen Bay. You guys have all been here for quite a while.

So far I've been I lived here in uh 10 and 11 for a couple years. We were in transition and now I'm back here. We bought land in 22. We built our home. We moved in early 24. I have a big heart for this community and the uniqueness for what it is and I am in favor of the open space. I am very good at research. Um I'd like to keep it the way it is as much as we can and I understand changes and we have to progress as we move forward.

I think this committee is going to work awesome together and presenting to the as far as the land use I would think that we're all going to come together is a big rule right and bring that information to go over the structure. Okay. Yeah. So I'm I'm happy to be here and I'm happy to meet all you guys. Thank you. Hi, my name is Janet Moore.

I've been here since about 93 um in the town and um I was lucky enough to sit down with Ian when he was doing all of this and go go over how it was all working out and have worked worked with the people in the town for a long time. But um I have a background in real estate and I've also um a certification for land um analysis and I think this is about my fifth committee I've been on to save this land and um this is the last one. It's going to happen this time. Oh, go ahead.

So far I think I've been here the longest. I moved here in 1986. Um I was on Jackie Davis was the mayor then. I was on the first um planning commission um the year we incorporated. So I was involved and helped with other members on the planning commission of developing general plan for Cave Creek. banning.

So I kind of have skin in the game as far as because we at the end of the day after the negotiations and the the final plan there was a big emphasis or I would say the cornerstone of this town keeping it different was low density and open space and just generally respect for the um and I think that served us well since incorporation to today. uh we still look different than our neighbors and it's probably because there's desert in between us.

Um I served on the town council for three terms as vice mayor once been on the planning commission times and I can tell I'm still on the planning commission. had been chairman. Uh when I was vice mayor, I took on with the help of Ernie Bunch uh who was I think he was then mayor I get or not and mayor Van Francia and spent almost two years of my term negotiating with ADHQ and the land department to work out that you getting the land squared away and preserved forever.

Me I mean it was a grueling negotiation. We thought we had it done. They proposed a uh a trans a value transfer for more densely developed areas. We we could give them our open space credit and they would pay for it so that they didn't have to give up open space uh in there where they were developing. But the Army Corps of Engineers, it was right at the end were evaluating it and that was all that was left.

And I guess there wasn't enough endangered species or enough big desert tortoises, but we didn't. It didn't work out. And so I'm here uh to make sure we get it done this time because we're so close. And I think and it is something that'll make this count and kind of the heart of Keith Creek as far as I can. Well, I don't want us to screw this up and it's going to take the whole town.

I mean, we're never going to be able to, you know, use general funds or we're going to have to go to the town for something, some form this done. So, I hope more than that, I just hope by the end of this process, we're all proud and we're all friends because that's the best that's the best blessing blessing that can happen here. I mean, this is democracy. But we still have developed. Go ahead and law. Hi everybody. I'm Annie Molasi.

Um my husband and I lived in Cave Creek for the last 5 years in the northern part of the valley for about the last 12 years. But I grew up in southern Arizona. If you're familiar with Sar Vista, grew up there. Have been in Arizona most of my life. Um um we live, my husband and I, back up right up to the Cave Creek Trails which we use quite a bit. I think Jewel of the Creek is one of my favorite trails to hike on a lazy Saturday.

Um, big hikers, backpackers, so super interested in keeping our open space open space as much as possible. Um, I'm an HR director at Honeyal Aerospace currently, so tons of experience with program and project management. I have a degree in public administration, lots of experience with civic engagement and community service. So, really hoping that I can help contribute in a couple of those different ways. So totally up for where best you am. Why don't you uh that's the brief.

Hi, I'm Bambi Miller. I'm the trails coordinator for the town. I've worked for the town for 33 years, the last couple years part-time, but uh I've worked with a lot of you before on the open space and on trail. So, I'm looking forward to working with everybody and hopefully we can accomplish what we set out to do.

So, um I think before we we get into the selection of the chair and vice chair, um Bill, do you want to um are you kind of queued up to go through real real briefly the open meeting law? Uh sure. Then and quorum. Um Yep. Can you hear me? Test one, two, can you hear me? Hello. Can K can Yeah, Bill, we we got you. Okay. Sorry. My first involvement with your town was in the late 90s as a deputy county attorney when we worked with you concerning Spur Cross.

It surprised the supervisors and me that a community would vote to impose a tax on itself. That isn't common in Arizona. But that's the challenge you have now front of you. Since then, I've been working with cities and towns all over the state, and I'm currently your town attorney, and I continue to be impressed with the community spirit and the dedication to open space. But I'm also aware that getting the public to vote for a property tax isn't easy. And that's your challenge.

Your challenge is to inspire confidence and credibility without losing efficiency. The open meeting law does just that. Having said that, I can't tell you how many managers and mayors have said to me, "The open meeting law is really a pain and how can we get around it?" So, Luke and I have worked on an idea that can work that will keep you open, but then allow you to be efficient and that's by creating work groups, not subcommittees.

The open meeting law would apply to any subcommittee that makes a recommendation that goes to a governing body that is sub to the open meeting law. But if we create work groups and we say to the work groups, you have every right to use the work group to develop facts. This is the this is the caveat, but not develop recommendations for actions by you, the body in this room right now. The way we could do that is to just be careful and just make sure all you're doing is trying to discern facts.

And the minute this the facts begin to evolve into a recommendation that you will make to this group and eventually to the to the council, then I think we would convene we would notice an open meeting. So we could show the attorney general that we know what the open meeting law means and we know how to hold a meeting.

So that way you can have your workg groupoups, you can go ahead and have discussions and and then and then and then have and don't do any recommendations till they come to council or sorry not council come back to you. Um so I think Luke is that is that is that enough or do we do you need something more? I think does does anyone have questions kind of about that? Will really what um just going back Bill to previous experience just making sure because we're we're going to have a roster.

We're going to send everyone a roster with contact information. We want to be very careful and vigilant that we're not doing mass emails to one another talking about things that we're going to be discussing as a as an entire group.

And and what we are thinking as staff in in this meeting specifically is we'll develop kind of a calendar when we'll bring all of us together at in this type of setting and discuss what's going on in the work groups start to work those work groups will meet independent of that meeting. We're going to try to shoot for once a month. Um try to try to get at least five meetings. uh maybe a few more depending on how how in-depth some of the groups go.

Um that's really that's really the bottom line is you are now an appointed bottom can't so you are working under them to push forward a recommendation. You don't want me that in the background via text now talking and and discussing it then all that is positivity if you are at large to make that does that kind of sum it up bill?

Yeah, but I think as you identify the number of people's people on each work group, you ought to keep that number constant and to the extent you allow others to come into the work group and create a larger number, you risk creating a quorum of a larger body. So it' be wise just to keep the work groups the way they are and uh you shouldn't let the open meeting law scare you into inactivity.

I think you should be able to have all the discussions you want and who will who will be who from staff will be at the work groups? Will it be you Luke? Who who will be there? uh TBD, we're we're going to uh build that plane as we're flying. My point is there should be at least one to make sure they can be the observer to see if the discussions is are moving from factual to recommendations. It's a very fine line. I'm willing to defend you.

I've battled the A and I see a former attorney general representative in the room right now. Um uh and I'll be happy to try to explain to the attorney general why I believe discussions about facts aren't recommendations and don't require an open meeting. Never bad. [Laughter] I'm glad you're there, Steve. All of that in more detail as we as we kind of flesh out who's going to be in what group and how that's going to look. Um and then we'll need to figure out how are we going to meet?

Are we going to meet virtually via Zoom link or Teams or some other uh you know telecom type way? or do we want to bring work groups into here and meet? So, there's a lot of things that that are still to be determined. What we didn't want was for another month to go by um where we didn't kind of get right on this. The planning commission appointed you all September 2nd.

Um we wanted to get this kind of kickoff meeting started this month just to show that we're moving forward because th this is kind of a time-sensitive um issue and we wanted to just get right on top of it.

So, um, yeah, if I, you know, if I could, I mean, our target is to complete the work by the end of February and then have a report presented to council in March at now the council if they are to refer this to voters, I'm not even knowing what that question might be for the for a ballot, but that has to be formulated and taken action by May in order to notify the county um elections to get this on the ballot.

So um there's a little bit of time we built in but we really don't want we really want to be productive and kind of burn through this so that we have sufficient time um following the council's presentation that the group makes to them. So any any questions on on either the structure and function or with the number of people? I think that these um workg groups are going to be a really good highly efficient way of of breaking these um components into bite-sized pieces.

And um I'm hoping that each of you with your uh expertise are able to find a work group that fits with you.

I know there might be some that might be in higher demand and we just hope that you guys understand we can't we can't have more than the recommended number of people per work work group and again that also means for you nobody is to be floating in and out of these different work groups as as Bill was saying because we got to be very cognizant of um quorums and and not we're already down is it two people correct we had yeah we had two resign there are two members absent um that didn't provide notice of safety absence.

So, I'll reach up out to them and then one that has an excused absence is actually on a plane right now. So, um the in theory there should be 15 miers. Um so, what we did is we looked at um Did that go? Uh it it was 17. It had two two signed. Yeah. Do we know? Can you let us know? Yeah. So, we have um she Jolene Gardner and um Jeremy Shaml and he's just literally just came through the last day or two. Yeah, yesterday. Um and then Susan Demit um is not here. And Monniqueu Monique Mon.

as um I just Yeah, she's Monique, right? Um so they teacher, right? Dad. So those those were not here and didn't let us know they weren't going to be then David Acriman uh was someone else that was appointed and and he reached out to Grady right away and said, "I'm not going to be able to attend the meeting today." And then he expressed interest in one of the working groups. So we'll we'll try to piece all that together.

I think that'll be the line share of kind of the remainder of our day after we get to um the selection of the committee chair and vice chair. Suk, I do have one question. Yes, sir. Uh Bill.

So, Bill, with 14, I'm sorry, with 15 members remaining, if we drop down anymore, do we need to go back to council and have them reestablish the the the number so that because right now, you know what it's like if you're trying to meet a quorum of 17 and you have 15 people, this you you use the number for the 17 and that means you have to have nine people. But if now it's really the real number is 15. So, so how does that work, Bill?

Well, we do need to change the for the purposes of constituting the quorum. The fact that we have vacancies doesn't reduce the quorum if you were authorized at 15. Having said that, Mr. Bour called me the day after the meeting and pointed out the agenda was 7 to9 and we went to 17.

What I would do, Grady, is I think at the next council meeting, we'll we'll let the numbers flesh out and then you or Luke can report and then I think we could have the council ratify the number that exists so that we know how to compute a quorum. I do think we do need to have the count I I do not think we should go through it's your call, not mine. I wouldn't go through the process of trying to get more PE candidates to fill vacancies. Trust me.

No, I just want to make sure that that from the record, please. Yeah. did but he's again the larger numbers really do make the quorums harder to me. So that's why I think we just get the you you report it once we know what the numbers are and let the council ratify find out from the two that were here and make sure they're Yeah. Bill. Interesting. I know.

Could I ask you to provide clarity about how we can provide facts favor of attacks, but we can't actually lobby favor how attack would have to be involved in all? I can barely hear a bill. But but if you're asking me to provide clarity between what a fact is and what a recommendation is, you don't want an answer. We want it to be as ambiguous as we can so that you can explain you can explore many facts. I I'll I'll handle it.

No, Bill, what I was asking was my understanding is that this committee can provide facts and factual data about a possible tax, but we cannot lobby for such a thing. That would require Can you require give us a little clarity on that? Well, who you going to lobby? The public. What are you talking about lobbying? The public. We have an I think you have every right to share information. Correct. That I'm perfectly fine.

And that e even bond attorneys could tell you when that when schools you're you're allowed to go out and and publish information. You're not allowed to use public funds to influence the vote. You are allowed to in effect communicate information. So I think that's perfectly fine. My understanding is elected officials and like bodies like this, let's say we are done with this process. We are now going into the outreach in the community holding public meetings.

the staff can go and do its presentation on the factual information that what will be before them but committee members could testify and say you know I was involved in this process and I believe very wholeheartedly in this can do that outside of having a political action committee they can do that just like the council members can do that now staff is prohibited from either using town resources using time and saying you that they support this.

We can only just state the facts, but they can outside of this process when we're done, they could do that. Correct. Yes. Okay. But we can't raise money to promote that or spend money. It's not an official part of the But this will come to a conclusion at the conclusion at the after the report is presented and then you guys go away as an ad hoc committee. Yeah, Bill has done a very good job of scaring the hell out of me previously over public meeting law. You're you're hard to scare, Bill. Yeah.

Go ahead. So, I have a question since you brought the money up and I know um that Mr. Sims talked about a tax and I I don't know that we have to go there yet and I know I don't want to go too far into this, but if I know somebody that might be able to donate money, is that going to be okay for me to discuss? Yes. Okay. Yeah. And I and I don't want to put the part before the horse here because I think that's what we're going to be doing. It's discerning different options in different ways.

And as you guys remember with the uh as you recall with the spur cross from what I understand there was all sorts of partnerships and collaborations between governmental entities. Um county played a role in it. There was some earmarking of some funds from I I believe it was the state and there was also the desert foothills land trust. There were a lot of different entities that and I think that's what you want.

you want to leverage and there was also fundraising the very beginning before any of those partnerships came about there was fundraising as well now I'm not advocating I'm just telling you that I think you guys are going to come up through um and as part of your discernment process you're going to be able to um come back with some recommendations ultimately for this committee we will properly notice those bill so when but but the point is I do think um to Janet's point it's not necessarily a foregone conclusion But we may have some language that's permissible on the ballot that may be like get us to the finish line to make up the difference, but it may not be fully financed by the town or or by the residents with the property tax.

So I I think you bring up a really good point and thanks for bringing that up, Shannon. after house uh she's on her way. You can follow. Are there any other questions for Bill while he's here? Um otherwise um we can let Bill go. Bill, thank you very much. Thank you. I I admire all of you. I'm currently a town attorney for seven town cities and you are my you impress me with the degree to which you are so dedicated to your community and you impress me with your fidelity to democracy.

The the fact that you're here shows me that our government can still survive. Good luck. Question. Yes. Does gathering facts include asking residents if they would support attacks? Sure. Sure. We need to do this on the front end. No. Yeah. Number one, right? I'd like to try to Yeah. There there may be, you know, and I this is infancy, right, with group. Um, so I I don't want to put start building in and making in recommendations, but there may be a recommendation from the outreach group.

Let's develop a survey. Let's send it out. Let's get some feedback about open space and about people's general knowledge of open space and how open space acquisition could be funded. You know, those those are things that would come out of a working group type or situation, not just individuals going out and knocking on doors as you as you're so familiar with from the Spur Cross. So, um, yeah, it's it's we we don't want to assume the end and what that looks like.

The start laying the foundation on how to how to build together cohesively to to an end and that made thanks Luke. Thank you, Bo. Bye. So now the um your your guys's first um parliamentary procedure is at your feet. Um we we need to select a ad hoc committee chair and vice chair. Um so the way this works is typically you do nominations. Uh you would take a vote and then we would move on to the next.

So nominations for chair uh take a vote, elect a chair and then there would be nominations for vice chair. Um, and once those nominations are collected, we take a voice vote. So, uh, with that, I nominate Steve Lamar for chair. Second. Yeah, sure. That's You guys don't even need staff here. You guys are a fully functioning. Any were there any other Yeah. Were there any other nominations? Hearing none. Uh, all those in favor I opposed. Okay. Congratulations, Chairman Lamar.

We don't give them a choice to be a lot of work and a lot of twists and turns, but we're going to get this done. Yeah, we're going to get this and um we will take nominations for vice chair. I nominate Bill Bour for second chair. many seconds to count. Um, any other nominations for vice chair? Hearing none, we will take a vote. All those in favor? I opposed. All right. Congratulations, Vice Chair Bour. Thank you. Same. You don't even need a new name tag. I don't get a new name tag.

Save your money. We will make this one of the best deals that K Creek has made. This will be a good one. So you guys just finished doing it all and we'll just leave. So if the chairman would permit I would like to go into the next um item on the agenda which is the discussion of structure and function of committee and working groups. We've already kind of briefly touched on this.

Um, you know, and myself, uh, in order to stay on schedule and complete its findings and recommendation, staff recommends the establishment of four working groups to meet independently of the committee. Members of the committee will sign up to work on a single working group based on interest and background. Due to open meeting laws, which we've gone over regarding quorums, there can be no more than the members of the working groups shown below to attend and serve on the working groups.

So we've got if you've all uh gone through the agenda staff has recommended uh these four working groups communication and outreach. This group will focus efforts on preparing any general information and education related materials pertaining to the acquisition and preservation of open space. The next group is evaluating and prioritizing open space areas.

This group will assess the various open space recreation and open space conservation zone lands and make its recommendation on what priority areas should be a focus. The next working group is identifying potential stakeholders or partnerships. Uh that group will identify individuals, groups and agencies of which the town should pursue partnering with for the purpose of open space acquisition. And the last group um perhaps most important uh is identifying the options of financing.

This group will examine the funding and financing opportunities for open space acquisition. So what staff has done, we have uh essentially those four working groups um with clipboards and signup sheets. Um so look, if I may Yes, please. I mean that those numbers were based on 17. Uh I would recommend that maybe the communication outreach be reduced from four to three and maybe the evaluating prioritizing open space areas go from five to four. um just to add a little bit balance of the 15.

Obviously, the committee can come up with what they want, but we need to make sure that we have 15 for those groups and that we're not over on our numbers. Be a solid number this fall. No, but and it could be a moving target depending on what happens after this meeting. Yes, Bill. Might we consider combining two of the groups in case we drop any more voters? I I think we originally started off with three um and I think four works fine for now, but I I would say if that happens, absolutely.

Do you have a recommendation? No, I'm just thinking about what happens if we end up, you know, when you were in school and you got in that committee and one person actually did the whole report. Yes. Trying to avoid that group projects. That's right. So, let's let's look at doing that. I just want to make sure we're not over the number of people because then that will mean two um work groups for somebody and we don't want to really get into that.

So, so and you guys could change it up however you want. It's it's committee. I was just trying to be simplified and and I do agree, Bill. I think that's a very good suggestion.

if we find we somehow lose another couple people that we consolidate collapse a couple of them so we end up just with three but one that might have more people on it and and to Grady's point also and what we learned really uh very well from the morning star ad hoc uh group was this is now this is now your committee you have an official chair and a vice chair we're posting agendas we're taking uh recording of the minute of the meeting.

Uh staff is here to provide kind of guide rails, feedback, suggestions, but really at the end of the day, this is your committee. Um so if you know, if if you disagree with staff and say those four groups are completely erroneous and unnecessary, let's do three groups and name them this. You guys can can discuss that. or if we just want to hand out these and and get your feedback on where you would like to serve and what focus area you'd like to serve um we can we can do that.

So it's really bad question. Yeah, I'll share it. I guess I'd like the idea of the working group so that we do, but I I'm just seeing that we the only way to set this up is to have a pretty superficial identification of the broad areas. It really doesn't pin down what what kind of skills and you know and what exactly you're going to be doing in order to explore financing.

Uh my question is if we if we have 10 people that want to be on group A as an example that we're going to have to do a little bit of massaging and and reworking and my question is as long as there's four members it can be there could be a switch in the group or does it have to be the same four members from the beginning? Needs to be the same the same.

So once we're I guess what I'm concerned about what we're trying to do is we're trying to avoid the whole open meeting situation to do otherwise we're going to have start doing meeting notices and I just add complexity plus you have to have these workg groupoup meetings in very public places you can't just like be in your home because we'll have an agenda notice and or meeting notice and it's it's not considered a public place to hold these in your home.

I I get that and my only concern is that I don't know that all of us can intelligently decide which area we want to work in. We don't quite know what that entails. Uh but maybe it won't be a problem. That's all. Just try to go with your expertise what you think you are best at. You're most welcome. Yeah. you know, from the from the introductions, um, we kind of gleaned a little bit from each other about what, you know, I mean, uh, got someone that does public finance down there.

Uh, we got a fellow public administrator down there. Um, so we've got we've got a good blend of of personalities and traits that could probably fit into those groups. And, you know, until working groups start meeting there, we don't have to set news and sell. Um, we can, you know, I I don't mind sending these in a little bit more descriptive um, background on what these groups look like.

Maybe staff over the next day looks at what a combination um, cutting it down to three looks like and maybe sends that around. So, you'll see, you know, when we, for example, when we email you, it it's always blind copy. You're always going to get a blank copy email from staff kind of outlining things because we don't we want to avoid reply all. and I think that's a dumb idea. Um, and then everyone, well, they're inclined to think that's a dumb idea, so I should.

So, we're we're always trying to avoid that. But we can staff can uh work on this over the next day and give you guys some some additional maybe guidance or feedback on on what this looks like if the group lands somewhere in the uh 12 14 15 range. Um, obviously it's it's no more than 15 at this point. The other thing is there's not any backing order either. I mean these groups are all very important to know ultimately what is going to come back to surfetti.

So everyone's going to have some involvement in uh this whether you're on the work groups or the overall comm ultimately everything's going back to this group. My interpretation of like the third and the fourth is stakeholders and holes for financing are kind of overlapping a little bit. Right. Very much so. Yeah, it might be good when the along those lines. Yeah, the natural overlap is the financing and the partnership because the partnership determines a lot about the financing.

And when I look at those two, they're very very important functions, but they overlap. They're they're kind of the same thing. And please uh if we can't indulge staff to or get staff to indulge us, please provide us with more description about it because on financing so far we've just peripherally touched on the idea that we have a tax and that we can raise the money privately. But there are many other layers of the cake that not everybody in the room knows about.

And there are some particulars even about the tax about this being a secondary property tax that it has a it goes away and how that is different that is unique to Arizona. Other states don't do that so people may not be fully familiar with that. So give us some body copy there if you would please. And uh I I think there is a big distinction between land that's sewn for recreation and land that's zone for conservation. And maybe we should provide that distinction as well.

And so I just created another extra overtime period. Sure. And what the stat was that it was probably a thought process and the staff went through. Can you hear me now? I'm sorry. So there was probably a thought process and what the staff went to to come up with these types of um work groups and what they were hoping that it would accomplish. I'm I'm I'm surmising maybe I'm wrong on that. So if that little background might be helpful for us too in and to overlap what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah.

You know for instance I'm not sure there is as much an overlap as we might first think because you know separate and apart from just general financing opportunities. Uh once if we if and when we identify the partners, we're going to have a pretty good outline of because because they're going to be there's there those are going to be the entities or the people that are putting in big chunks of either time, management, or money.

So it seems to me that that'll be as things go along that's going to get identified right away. either nobody wants to be involved with it or the county and everybody does want to get involved with it and we don't know I the state might change its position a little bit as we go along about how much money we need etc. I doubt it but we can hope then there's all the extra stuff the other stuff that I would call more you know kind of public relations fundraising just from the folks individually.

I remember when we first started talking about this years ago. Were you there, Carol? We we went we went up to remember we we rented their pavilion. Not and everybody bought an acre. Yeah. And you put in 400 because that's what we thought the valuation was going to be. Well, I was wrong too. But but it was really good. It really got people involved because they not they literally had land in the game, not just skin in the game.

So those kind of things aside from the big chunk institutional partnerships, that's where we could really make hay and that's probably as important to getting a yes vote. Yeah. On that, you know, mill or two or three or four or 10 or I don't know that we can anyway. I'm not going to predict about that. But when if you can get early on people like selling and being proud of wearing their their spirit cross t-shirt. I've had this thing forever.

I hardly wash it because you know it's like this one is for but it's not it looks new. But because they never that's where you can really not only make some money with ideas and and generating, but you can get people involved. And when you have neighbors talking to neighbors about what a great deal it is, that's when you go and get 70% at the at the ballot box. Yeah. I have a question.

During the trails committee, we kept having to be reigned back because we really everybody on that committee when we were in agreement, we were trying to figure out how do we go about this and you kept staff kept having to tell us that's not on you. You're just here to do recommendations. Once you provide it to the town council, if they so should choose to go along with it, then everything gets implemented. So, I think we've got to kind of rein in.

I I feel like we're so enthusiastic that we want to go out and get um get those partnerships right now and that's not what our task is.

So I think you having to outline this more and and tell us roughly right this is what we're expecting to come back with your your uh findings and recommendations and ultimately reporting um and ultimately reporting it back to the council and then then hopefully some part of this group will become either like a political action committee or a yes on whatever if that's what they so want. I'm not putting pressure on anybody to do that if that if they don't want to do it.

But the point is you have a a mission and once that mission's accomplished, you've done what you were um what the scope was for you guys to do that. And so again, we're not putting us trying to put this on you to solve the problem like how to make this happen or how to make sure that we secure the land.

You're coming basically back with a roadmap and how you think it could be done and the council will consider it and then take action and there's going to be time if this is a November election for instance and the council decides this in March there's still time after the March um uh presentation to council to form some sort of a group advocacy group or whatever it might be. Um, so that's the opportunity then to actually implement the ideas from the report.

So let me make sure that I understand what you're saying. We aren't actually going to do any work in working groups to find talk with through staff and and history and the county for instance. We're not doing any of that. We're just sitting down. So it would be a good idea to have the county be a partner. It' be a good idea. We don't actually meet with negotiate no to make any recommendation. But but let me tell you, we're going to be bringing in some subject experts.

We're going to be bringing in the Desert Foothills um land trust and we're going to bring in R.J. who is working as a consultant to us who has had some experience with um some of these opportunities. So, I'm not I'm not telling you no, you know, you're just supposed to be brainstorming ideas.

You're going to be working groups, meaning that you're going to do some work, but you're not you're you're not doing what like when you were on council and you were helping sit at the table with the Arizona State Land Trusts and negotiate an IG. That's not that's way beyond the scope of this group. Wow. Does that make sense what I just said? Makes a lot easier. Yeah.

I mean even further we've already um we've already kind of lined up some you know esteemed guests to come in and either uh meet with a at large committee or just give you know TED talks to the working groups as we go through this.

Um the state land department has offered staff to come and walk us through what the uh appraisal auction acquisition process looks like and um kind of give an overview of what they do and why they do it just to kind of give us all a better understanding of of why we're here and how we're here. Um the what Cave Creek was able to do and negotiate at the state land department was really um hasn't been done by anyone else. Others have tried, few have uh been successful.

what Cape Creek was able to accomplish with them and and them working with us and the state land commissioner was really historic um for Arizona. So, also I just want to let you guys know too, so like our finance director will be plugged in into like that finance uh workg group. Um we've also have done some maneuvers um last year.

We have I think it as of the end of last fiscal year like $1.6 $6 million um that is in what I call the open space um uh uh fund and council did a change to some of the TPT um prioritization of of tax sales tax and so that's going to generate about 500,000 to 600,000 this year and next year. So that's part that's money that can be available.

Obviously, it's going to be part of like what you guys are looking at, but I'm just telling you staff will pop in and give you guys some of this information and then it's something that you guys could use as part of your findings and recommendations, your final report to council. Just sh doing that as an example. I'm not saying that's going to happen.

I'm just But we do have staff that will be able to um answer questions and tell you like on average for a house that might be you know $800,000 what could this potentially have an impact on it if the there's a secondary tax after the town puts you know $2.5 million down on this. Sorry Shannon. So, I get what you're saying about um not going ahead and doing something, but as being on committees as much as I have for doing this, I really want to see this come to fruition.

And I don't want to stand in front of council saying uh these are the things that we want to do and then they don't have the insight that we have of knowledge of how we're going to do it and then just, you know, go and do something else. Okay.

Um, so I think what I would like to propose is that maybe we do um see if there are some avenues, some solid avenues so when we go to the council, we could say, "Okay, we have this avenue to go to collect the money uh so that they just don't jump on taxes." Because honestly, I'm hearing everybody talk about taxes. I've heard them I could was surprised at how they were saying it on council. We're going to have a tax and even if it's a secondary tax, if that's what we have to do, that's great.

But I would like to really look at some real and I I've I've already talked to somebody. So, and I've, you know, I have some ideas and and um I I without being able to go and and I'm not even going to say I want to be on that committee. I don't need to be on that committee, but if I know somebody that has some money that they can open up their wallet for, I I I want to have like real solid things to go to the council with. I mean, this is a good discussion.

I I just would caution you that with you being on this committee, you're a representative of the town and you might be making or somebody might be misunderstanding what you're saying and and making representations on what they might get for their M. I'm just saying we got to be very careful on that. And I'm not saying that you would I wouldn't do that. No, I understand. But I'm saying the other party say that. So they get a bailing. Where is council on this? It's an open topic.

They've been they brought it to the town as an to form this. Our council is I'll tell you 100% uh to board with preservation. There's some that are like similar to uh Janet that would like to they they know some people that are deep pockets or have deep pockets and would like to see what kind of money can come through those efforts. And I've heard the mayor, he just wants to make sure because he thinks the timing is very good.

Doesn't want to miss out on that incredible opportunity right now because we we don't have a recession going on right now. Um, and you know what happens when recessions and things like that happen? People start tightening up their belts and their pocketbooks, stuff like that. Um, so I I So what I'm trying to tell you is I think the council's probably like a lot of you guys, they're all for it, but they all have maybe different ideas on how to go about doing it.

But I will tell you, it's not teaser cross. It's it would but I will tell you that by the end of next fiscal year we will have at least $2.5.6 million available that could be used as a down payment. And Luke, did you want to just talk a little bit about the IGA that just got approved? Yes. Because that that kind of plays in a little bit with what we're doing here. Sure.

Um so the the original um annexation and zoning uh agreements that were consummated between the town and the state land department back in 200789. Um many of you are might be aware that the town was essentially given the right to initiate auction and and acquisition efforts to take down the 4,05 acres of open space. We are given a 20-year window to do that. Um there's been a lot of um um creative uh you know everyone in Cave Creek's a civil engineer. Everyone in Cave Creek senator lays attorney.

Everyone in Cave Creek is um but some people have read those very agreements very creatively and and said oh at the end of 20 years the land the annexes and goes back to county and the zoning reverts back to none of that is none of that is true. None of that is expressed in the agreement.

uh state land has confirmed that um what we started doing with the state land department approximately two years ago was o reopening a dialogue of hey we know those agreements are set to expire uh June 18th of 2029 what can we do um to get those extended um we're we're probably not in a position right now as we stand once again this is back in 23 to get those uh to get those lands taken down you know purchased and acquired Uh, so we've been working kind of the the last 18 months in earnest on getting those agreements extended.

Council at their um September 2nd meeting um approved the resolution to extend those agreements another 10 years from the date of expiration. So now they're set to expire in June of 2039. So it gives the town another essentially 10 years or 30 years total uh to initiate auction and acquisition of those lanes.

The only caveat being the state land wanted the town to uh pledge essentially skin in the game and uh promise to initiate acquisition of 160 acres of the 4,000 acres within a um 5-year uh time period from the date that those agreements so those agreements are now sitting at the land commissioner's office uh waiting for him to sign. So once those are signed and recorded, then we've got the clock starts ticking that we've got five years to acquire or initiate acquisition of 160 acres.

So, so the reason why I was talking about the downt that would exceed the absolute 160 acres but yet still have us in compliance and then I think potentially um after all the fundraising and all the different collaborations and all that which I think are going to be essential. It just shows that we may not need to finance any of this or if we do it's just to get it to finish line meaning that it's not going to be nearly um what they were looking at several years ago for spur cross.

I still don't think it's nearly the same number. Can anybody jump in to the big chat? Yes, Steve. Yeah. I'm just going to go back to want to make sure I'm crystal clear with this since I've uh been honored with his chairmanship. Chairmanship. Uh I'm not saying this harsh. I'm just saying it bluntly because what I'm hearing is we if we think it's a good idea that we have partnerships with various institutions individuals um but we have absolutely no information that any of that is feasible.

We just make a recommendation that we should do that because that's not our job to do anything doing it. It's just about deciding what are good ideas. No, Steve. Our the magic of this committee is that we have absolutely no power whatsoever. But that's our our best talent, too. Because what we can do is we can reach out and find out if there is a deal to be made. We can't make a deal. We have no authority to negotiate the deal.

But let's say the Nature Conservancy seems to have a lot of money and we'd like to have some.

So we can contact them and see if this is the kind of project they would be interested in considering where the if a member of council did this it would be a problem and we did this in the we did in a in the trail committee and so we can also go to private donors and say if we were to do such a thing would you be interested and I I I have personally done that so far even as a citizen I can ask that and I found that people are very receptive to that.

Uh so we do we we don't just have to sit here and say gee it would be a good idea. We can reach out. We can do work. We just can't cut the deal. We we have no ability to negotiate. You agree? Do I think Bill has questioning? Yeah. It's passive aggressive negotiation. I think it's how they No. No. They might be interested in Yeah. And right and it it is amazing when people know that you don't have the ability to negotiate. Then they become more willing to talk to you. We've got a question.

Is there is there useful information from the trails project or the osper cross that would help inform us either as a full group or individually in our groups that we could read through? Yes, absolutely. So, we um Bambi has has kind of curated a baseline binder that we'll pass out that's got some background information, real high level things. It's like a Yeah, exactly.

We've got it's a it's a one-pager um that I've I've really used as a crutch um and talking about the the state land deal uh the annexation agreements, all of those things. It's a it's a real simple um one sheet or summary. Um, but this these binders and and Bambi and I went back and forth on what size these binders should be.

Um, I was opting for slightly smaller, but Bambi I I didn't I tried to get the small up and then I I told Phil I was going to give you an Bambi is the type of uh uh public bureaucrat that uh makes three copies then shreds one. Uh so is better, more is better. Yeah. So these these binders should grow and evolve as you know and it's we haven't done I haven't done personally a a group that's that's this large.

I think the largest committee that I've done was uh kind of the economic development committee when we were in our recession and I think that was a 12 member group. Um so it'll be a lot of feedback. Hey, you know for us we've kind of lived it so we we know where all the all the interesting rocks are in the desert.

Um, so it'll be helpful for us to be like, "Hey, you know, what is what do those agreements say?" All right, we'll we'll get you copies and we'll highlight, you know, the key points and and kind of give you a summary. So, it'll it'll really be a two-way street in that, right? Yeah. If you don't mind, we can we can kind of get into that, too. So, for the next meeting, the IG fire to Yes. Yes. I can get that. I I think that's that's a really good base. Yeah.

Then with going back to the working groups just again, same thing. I've worked with a lot of big groups before. Do we want to take just a first cut at maybe cutting the groups up and see where it lands? And if it's a mess, then more info come back or That's kind of what I was So my mind spending this uh giving out the segments. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking of doing an an email to everyone saying here's this committee.

I'm I'm thinking it sounds like we want to combine financing and the stakeholders. Um I think Grady, that's where we were when we were still thinking about maybe a smaller group. I don't know. So, um I'm thinking maybe six members for that combined group and then four for the other two. Four each. And that gets us right at 15. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So let's just let's just Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I think we just put it all in for a couple actually. Yes.

Um I don't know if you want to manage the prior time that we had initiated or things that happened showers not being able to preserve. Yeah. The Army Corps of Engineers sign off that it was that changed over time.

Maybe we had enough that that would help us and being able to obtain certain grandest But there is a difference in the zoning which is why there's a difference because not only are you going to go to this you're going to go to the ballot and the public needs to know what this all means 100% just to be able to say oh we got these guys with us we don't know how much these guys are going to well a recommendation so what would be what essentially would end up is a report and recommendation.

Um, and it would outlining, you know, what the different groups, what they focused on, what they worked through, what their recommendations are, what ZIP's recommendations. And maybe it's, hey, we need to go out and get private donors to pony up. We need to we need to hit $2 million right? And then if we go to Maroba County or we go to these other agencies, these other government agencies, well, our target needs to be X million dollars.

and then the town has general fund capability to to lend this x amount and then you know what that what that gap is.

So once we identify these people the timeline that you were referring to Brady that you think that's enough time to be able to go to these particular entities and we get somewhat of a commitment for them to see the full I I think that the ballot language we have to work Uh Kathleen, I think that the ballot language, if it's flexible enough, could be up to a maximum not to exceed X with the understanding that that buys uses additional maybe a couple years of fundraising and know what we need to do, but we also have authorization for the voters to go secure and try to acquire the state trust line.

So that's I that and that's where it's going to get tricky because you typically need to have, you know, a town attorney really write that up and make sure it's legal and all that.

But in just talking to him, he believes we can come up with some language like that that then gives us the flexibility to do what we need to do cuz I know we're not going to be able to get the partnerships and all that because they have to budget for this like the the the county board of supervisors and it's going to take a couple years just for them to kind of start appropriating and start planning and and it takes some time just to kind of develop those relationships.

It's a whole new body now. And so while I think Cape Roofy McGee is very um shown a lot of interest in this area, it's still it's going to take some a lot of money on their part, but there's a lot of these good partnerships. Um and so I do think we have the time to do it. And same thing you're you're suggesting, you know, like going and try to get private donors. I think that's all part of the equation, too.

So, it's it's all going to be like if you could just think of a pie that might be, you know, 15 million or $18 million. And one part of that going to be the county, one part of it going to be the town, another part is going to be private donors and it's going to make up the pie. The whole pie is going to be um taken up by various different sources to pay for this land. So I think uh some of you are looking at your at your maps.

So I just want to um briefly go through those and what those represent. We have the Bible up here. So really this this map is probably the most important because it outlies all the state land holdings within the municipal boundaries.

So those those agreements that I was referring to earlier that really started uh those talks in 2002 2003 um was a vault right and you know I was still in school so don't hold it against me the um but so the way this worked was essentially transferring density of of state trust so the state sells land leases land that pays for public education they do not like to leave any value on the So what we were able to negotiate with them was taking essentially the density and intensity of uses that could go up here uh which is the blue and the green is all the open space the 4,000 acres in some and moving it uh down to essentially this this is probably the lion share of the pie.

This is 240 acres of commercial zone state trust land. 120 acres is general commercial, 120 acres is commercial buffered. Then we were also able to uh negotiate with them to get a a lower density residential component here um here Willow Springs, but most of it is DR43 which is one acre one dwelling unit per acre zoning. Um that excuse me is that Elephant Mountain. Um it is not that I Yeah, it's it's right in here I believe. Um, so that's that's kind of how this plays out.

But this map is very good because it gives you a breakdown um of those four agreements. We we annexed Willow Springs. We annexed Rogers Wash. We annexed Apache Wash. And then the core site is all of the land the state land holdings within the town boundaries prior to those agreements that they were willing to reszone to open space recreation or conservation in exchange for the commercial considerations and the DR43 um and the remaining.

So this gives you a breakdown of how many acres of each zoning classification are in each of these areas. Um, so for me, for my money, this this map is probably the most comprehensive of all the maps in your file. I used to know, but is actually a spring in one of our areas. Um, it is. Yeah. Yeah. See that actually is here's death spray. Is this right? No, there's some town back either side.

Okay, if you see this access road that goes up to Kahaba, either side of that is actually all but the small private parcel is owned by the town. So, we do have some contiguousness here. And uh where was that other 30 acre par I mean there underneath the egg? Underneath the A. Okay. There are a few other things where the town already owns Oh, it looks like Did you add this or is that No, you didn't. There it Okay, so is that what we already own? Uh, no. This is This is It's this one right here.

So, we're It's just below uh Eddie. Yes. I it would be at mass. It would be in my MW as well. Yeah. Um we're going to get I'm going to lean on him. We're going to get one other map that is going to show the additional town holdings and then I'm going to lean on you and make sure that the trails are marked in that so that you can see what the connectivity is because it's going to be Yeah. Our the rest of the citizens are going to want to know, oh, it's great we bought it. How do I get there?

So, Barbara. Yes. So hope right there. I seem to remember there was a ch and I thought that was the footing spring that was donated to the town by the developer. Correct. That's correct. Right. Is that the front there? Does it check? Yeah, that's Yeah, we can. Yeah, we so what we'll generate in addition to just the ASLB map is the other currently uh town held properties, the land that we already own.

Um because that that will help once again as we talk about prioritizing lands if we want to, you know, go down the road of adjacencies, obtaining obtaining over time this land. Um um 80. We got uh 80 here from Kahaba and then an additional I can't remember the acreage on that one. Looks like maybe 140. Yeah. Uh Mark staff uh gave or the Kohaba development gave the town 140 acres there. And then uh this land that's contiguous to state land over here.

Um, and like to Bill's point, uh, the town worked with Maricopa County, um, Parks and Recreation and Desert Foothills Land Trust to, uh, consummate a deal to acquire 30 acres of residential zoned property that's right on the hillside as you walk into, um, Spurcross Ranch Conservation Area. So, we've done we've we've been doing this, right? Um, but this is this is obviously a much more complex piece. A lot of moving parts. There's not a lot that are contiguous.

There's a lot of, you know, chunks that are just kind of out there. Um, but this is this is why we need a big group. So, where's that red rectangle? Yeah. Where that says it's commercial corn. Where is that? That is due north of Cay Creek Regional Park. Uh the state land department wanted a and this goes back general plans two or three general plans ago. Um the state land department wanted a resort site and this and this was their state land holding that was suitable for a future resort site.

So is that still out there? It is. Uh yes, it's I have a question. Yeah. So and to not to pull the curtain entirely back in in meeting number one, hour number two, but um the uh we we will have the state land department come and and present to the committee at at large to talk about kind of how they determine ripeness of land before they go to auction or lease.

Um this my estimation, this my editorial, um this land, not not only the open space, but really the developable land, the the zone for residential or commercial land is so far in their future that they're they're not thinking about divesting this, selling this, breaking this up for development anytime soon. And there are a bunch of reasons why. Um it'll be good to hear it from them. Um but also staff will kind of give me that background and dialogue as well as go. Yes, Barbara. Yeah. Water.

Do we have to give it? No. Water. Trust me on this. I've spent hours on it, but no. So the the annexation and zoning agreements specifically state if the town has water resources available, then they're entitled to it. We all know given the current climate and economy of water, we really we don't have the water resources to to support them. And there's no um state land entitled uh water rights to that property.

They don't they didn't divert any of their uh water entitlements from other holdings that they have in the state to this um archaeology. Yeah, those sites have to do with anything that they might want. archaeological site. It was that part of the There's a lot of that up there. A lot that they say there are they have ATI numbers there with but they changed that but there is some argical do any at that point.

We do have a we have a member on our planning commission that's actually the um the north valley uh steward for the state historic preservation office. He's a he's a steward of all recognized archaeological sites in the area. Maybe he'd be a good resource to bring in and and talk about talk about that as well. I'm not I'm not familiar.

Like I said, I um I've probably gotten into some trouble as a juvenile in some of these areas, but I I don't recall seeing any archaeological site optional if they're there that we would actually conserve it and say I'm sorry it's part of theirs. Um no I I don't think I don't think that's necessarily an option. Um that would be a good question that we can we can bring up to the state land department. in parts of Flagstaff.

I know that we couldn't build, we had to have someone go out and test our land and we couldn't build on the property if there was any young operating or anything like that. And you say yeah, a lot of that is done through the the residential development process, the flatting process. Canyon Ridge Estates is a good example. They've got some historical uh or archaeological significant. They don't even call them like sites. They just say they're archaeologically significant.

Um and then they kind of set those aside as as preservation areas on the lot. That's all over up there. They feel the mark staff and like bunch were doing it. They were out digging. Omega was bringing pots and a bunch of things which I'm sure you're aware of on the left. Mhm. And so that's when they plotted, okay, here is a old me area. You can't build here, but you can build out there right next to. So that was really the catalyst for them uh deeding this land over to the town then. Yeah.

So blue and gray are the open areas that were referring to. So blue and green. Blue and green. Yes. So which are specifically are the 405 because that all those numbers add up to 5700. Oh okay. There's some fur with this. Yeah. So, you would want to if you're going to tally, you're going to do OSR and OSC are the are the two uh zoning categories. Open space conservation is that blue color and open space recreation is that green. Okay.

Because you were throwing around Willow Springs, Rogers Washington, Apache Washington, that's way more than 4,000 acres in total. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, this first map is the one that was the acquisition in Bradley. this one that's got yeah everything. So all the residential and commercial state land is taken off of that map and it's just a hard and fast here's the open space recreation there's an open space conservation areas.

So they really are in contiguous they're kind of just a little bit and and that was by you know a lot of years of assessing it looking at it talking to state land you know there there's maps that go back maybe 25 years that have kind of a lava lamp of here's a vein of open space and here's a vein of res and once we really got drilled down into all right what are the numbers what does your density need to be down here and How do we divvy up the acres?

Then that's when we started making hard breaks and cutting things up into 20 acres, 40 acres, 80 acres, 120 acres and building the map out like that because it it would just be a nightmare to go out and survey veins of land for for open space. the like you know there's one source of confusion and we will run into this with the town is that the annexation is one thing you know like uh Willow Springs we but the amount of space within the annexation that's being preserved is much smaller.

So you'll run into some people who believe that all of the land that was in the relaxations are part of the 4,000 acres of open space and so they're going to have an unhappy realization that that is not the case. So I mean I've been talking to people about this and that's been a revelation for many people to find out that we're not talking about the entire thing. So we have to be clear.

Yes, we that's that communications and and kind of marking it at really identifying this is what we're talking about. And what these blue and green really boil down to for for simplification sake are hillsides. So anywhere where we've got natural grade that's 15% or greater um you know slopes, sloping land, uh things that are then you've got some other things that are encumbered by access. Um all of those the state was willing to say yeah that can be open space.

No one wants to see a bunch of houses up the side of of that um geographic feature. So that's how that's how this ended up being devised. Are you referring to all your when you say geological feature? Um just just hillsides in general. Oh. So yeah, I mean all all over it's it's where you've got a a good amount of slope to the site. They wanted to keep what could be developed. Obviously, we wanted to preserve things that would be more difficult to build on and also kind of pollute our view.

So, any other questions about this map or anything specifically in your binder that you're like, hey, it would be nice if this information was in there or uh kind of give Ambi something to work on. We tried to, you know, outline the the maps. Obviously, the the cornerstone of Cape Creek is is really equal parts open space and preservation and equal parts open space for, you know, recreation, being able to hike, bike, ride your horse.

Um, those are those are all hallmarks of the town and the community. So, we tried to illustrate those in maps as best we can. It looks like according to the discerning eye of Bill, we're a little shy of that, but but we'll get there. Would it be important?

Would it be important to have a better understanding of how Kaba Springs development is going to play out as far as where buffer zones would be and in whatever I mean because that's kind of sort of in the middle of the bottom of this even though I realized that it's wherever that other map was. Oh. Oh, there's another one. Okay. This one.

tell you how white so there's there's um and this came up during the the morning star group um Kohaba Kohava Springs and that development um it's really set in stone um this map outlines where all the parcels are these parcels range from uh I believe 2 acres all the way up to 20 acre lots. Um they obviously put the the 20 acre lots kind of in this area that has open space on either side of it.

Um and then the the more densely populated areas are closer to the state land that that would be developed at some point in the future. Um so as far as I buffer and everything else, I mean they gave the town 200 acres of land for open space. They their requirements are desert rural just like yours.

I don't but does everyone um trying to think who lives in ER zones, who lives in single family zones in the town, but you got your 12oot native habitat corridor, your 60 foot setbacks, your 30- foot sideyard setbacks, all those things. So, as far as the ultimately when this develops, um it it's not going to look really any different than where I live in Red Dog Ranch or if anyone lives in Canyon Ridge Estates is familiar with that.

Um it's that that's the density pattern or the development pattern that's and you're not aware of any community parks or things like that that they want to put up there already that would be up there already? They they wanted to do one on this land that they ultimately gave to the town.

They were going to do a a nature center there and then uh similar and they said here just take it and the hoping it wasn't um uh 48 the minimum just based on the fact that everything is 190 that direction except for red dog and the city allowed it because they the go uh I believe uh wasn't it a lot more dense like corrected it was like yeah county it was 900 units. Yeah. Um in the town it's 230 I think. Yeah, we'll say 230. 230. But yeah.

Um so yeah, that's and those are those are platted developments. That doesn't that's not going to change without council action and it'd be very un very difficult for them to undo their their entitlement they have now. Um so I know I didn't like it. to someday. We'll see. I I posted this final plaque notice, the public notice as an intern. It was like my second week working for the temp. So 20 years ago, how long the wheels of change can take sometimes.

So So any any other should we try to maybe tackle how we want these groups to look? Yeah, Mr. Mr. Chair, should we move on to that coach? Um, in my book, the last section, the 2011 master plan have two complete sets of this. Did somebody muscle sack? Do I Oh, are we supposed to have two sets? No, one's for you to doodle on the other. Okay. So, the background on that is is really just to show context. This is this is work that we've done in anticipation of acquiring the land.

Um when what year was that? Um 2011 and done 2011. Um you might see some familiar names on there. Um but that's kind of a a good point in time reference point of what we're looking at. So, it it sounded like there might have been consensus from the group, and you'll hear me say that a lot, so I apologize from the outset, but it sounded like there was some consensus from the group to combine identifying options for financing and identifying potential stakeholders or partnerships.

Is that is that something that everyone is in agreement on? I would say so. Yeah, just kind of combining that group and that group would be a slightly larger group. Um, I'm thinking maybe six members on that group. Is anybody interested in in serving on that? Maybe by a show of hands to kind of help I skip. Yeah. Okay. So, I have a question for you. Okay. So we have that group and let's say that that group wants to consult with the chair or vice chair maybe both of us.

Have we then got suddenly a a quorum? So we can't do that. Okay. So I had that specific question for Bill the attorney. Yeah. about what happens. Let's say the chair and the vice chair want to float into some of these different groups. He was very adamant that that is not a good idea because it could actually cause some issues with the um quorum issues. Glad I asked. And yeah, and also the same thing about other members too. Yeah. Floating out of other work groups. So it's the same issue. Okay.

The goal is decide once a month we all sit down. Yeah. Here's what we're working on. Here are our findings today. what what is everybody that you know and then we we build. Okay, very good. I I just wasn't clear on how that worked. Thank you. Yes. I didn't um with the one that is establishing the financing and uh working on that. Is that your ideas of fundraising, putting that stuff together as far as what you do?

um awareness like you know like working on my future you can have your barcode and you can scan it your money I mean there's so many ways you getting money that now that in technology that you know I mean that the way we're kind of looking at it on all different variety of ways getting money well there is a a communication and outreach group that would be kind of more of that um okay all right how do we you know beyond the agencies and stakeholders holders and everything else.

How do we get to the residents and and how do we start, you know, formulating that type of profile? Um, okay, that's right. Yeah. So, anybody um so far we've got John, brave soul, John, thanks for starting the ball rolling. It looks so I I guess we'll just start. Barbara, what what uh of those three groups? Um I'd like found number C evaluate prioritize. Okay. No one no one is set in stone. We'll just kind of go through bill. What do you think? Binance. Okay. Stacy communication. Mr. D. Mr.

Lamar. Sherman Lamar Emmy channel. Okay Kathleen what do you do? Okay. Communication. Okay. And then money, finance. Finance. [Music] But where are you acting? We are the uh identifying options for financing and identifying stakeholders or partnerships which if I were betting which is why I don't bet I would have said that would have been the most popular. So that's we only have three uh for that right now. And eight I could switch to Yeah. evaluating prioritizing. Okay. Right. Yeah.

Um I think David had recommend or asked to be on the um and wasn't do you remember recall his Yeah. Those those little encyclopedias we carry in our pocket are amazing. So Marcy you said um was it evaluating or communication was your preference? You know whatever I need it it's fine. Okay. So I mean we've got we've got four in each group at this point. Yes, Janet. So where do you want Okay. Analyzing the property or prioritizing the bundle. I I think that she know Yeah.

financing and and stakeholders. Yeah, that he said evaluating prior. Um, we've got four in it now. I mean, it can there's there's Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, we've got five on options for financing slash um stakeholders and then so there's five on that. That's uh Barbara uh Paul B Steve Lamar Kathy and David Acriman. And then communication and outreach was Stacy, Yanny, Aaron, and Carol. And that first group, like I said, John, Bill, Monnique, Marcy, and Janet. Does that sound about right?

I think two grips, right? Yes. Yeah. I think we'll make it easy on everybody. We will give you guys your question about that um for each of those groups. So we'll send that information to you so that you can both group. So could we work like meet in town somewhere that it's open or or are we zooming or what are we do meet here?

I I think um especially for the first workg groupoup meeting um so you'll you'll get an email I'll do a a committee email and then a a working group specific email to each of you and then just kind of pull you for uh what some times might work for your schedules and then do a Zoom invite and we do that first meeting via Zoom and then kind of all right does this time work for everybody? Should we meet on these times or or something like that? but in post as far as the atlarge group.

Uh what I before we let you go is this time and day of the week problematic for anyone's schedule with enough notice if we I think what is this the third Wednesday of the month if it's actually the fourth but it should be okay. So um third Wednesday of each month as for for an atlarge Wednesday. Yep. So 3 p.m. I was just showing you later by 3 are they start let's let's get that figured out right now. If you can look at their last month name I say they cut this grim is you know fair in the mail.

That's all we got. Uh for big group by the uh individual work groups don't need to be for the public to want to come into and watch. No. So, that'll be in the um entire committee. I'll send you kind of an a calendar and a and a group of dates. Here's when we're going to meet at large and then you'll get another email from me to your specific work group. Um basically pulling you when you want to meet, when you want to set up. Okay, that's good. So, third works Yeah. well for us.

And then what we'll do is L said I think we'll send you everybody now whole series on calendar. Yeah. So third Wednesday 2 o'clock every month. What's the day next time? October 22nd. Good on that. Okay. So October if there is an opportunity like can't see here in person we can kind of do what we just we can do. Yeah. Face the tip. Yes. Should we just do as is October 22nd okay for everyone? I'll go next. I'm in Jamaica. Well, 15 15. Yeah, yeah, it said 15.

Are you available or you could do your part of the meeting first? I want you second. I know. Yeah, we got we got a conting up and all that other stuff we got to do now right? Let's do uh we'll do a TBD. We'll just do a TBD for right now. Um so plan on the plan on the 15th. Let's if we can we can move something around. We'll do that. Started by I would always make it. Yeah. Court has it in the morning. Okay.

We we we may have to flex that first meeting, but we'll uh we'll keep you all prized of of what we do and make sure that we we can get together a quorum. This was one of the challenges or hurdles with with having a larger group is there's a lot of calendars, right? And so, um we'll figure it out though. We'll free adapt it at the end. Just do us a favor if you just let us know if you're not going to be able to make it or or if you do need to virtual.

Um, and we'll always put that on the agenda that you can put the high in the but just let us know because we may have an issue with them when we want to be able to meet. I'm sorry, you're going to say something. Yeah, we're so we can if we're out, which I will be at fine. We'll do it like a Zoom call. You get like absolutely. Okay.

We had in our trail group, we had a gentleman that that was on the committee call from the back of a not the back of a tractor, from on top of a tractor, uh, building a trail. So, yes, it can be done. So, I think that third Wednesday's in November, December. You can't go to the fourth Wednesday because you're right on top of Thanksgiving, Thanksgiving, Christmas, right? Yeah. So, it's got to be the third Wednesday of the December. It sounds like it's going to except for um share just the right.

Okay. Well, we can do that first meeting if y we'll figure out that first meeting, but third from then on third Wednesdays 2 p.m. there won't be any conflicts uh with the ring. So, and meanwhile before then you're going to be meeting in the phone booth. Yeah. So, you'll get an email from me uh by end of day tomorrow um just saying all right congratulations you're on this group. Thanks for volunteering for this group. When should we um when should we meet? Would you prefer Zoom?

I mean, is everybody familiar with Zoom? Can everyone do a Zoom? Right. Zoom. I don't think you we had to do Zoom with our planning commission back in the Was there any other any other comments or questions? I think we've got a Oh, clear. We do. We do have purposes. My name is spelled C A R O L E. Yes, ma'am. Was it wrong on the agenda? Well, it's wrong on whatever that also saw. you can kick Gambia after the meeting. I just believe so there is um an opportunity for public comment.

I don't see anyone here wishing to speak. Um Mr. Chair, did you have any closing remarks or an environment? Um I I can accept a motion to adjurnn. We have one. Yeah. Any second? Second. All in favor? Unanimous. Thank you everybody. I definitely didn't relate to the figure.