Cave Creek unanimously approves $2.5 million open space acquisition for 4,050-acre purchase

Welcome to the special town council meeting for the town of Cave Creek, Arizona. It is January 27th, 2026. This is a single subject meeting, so there'll be no call the public. And we have two of the uh uh town participants that are um zooming in or in on voice only. Dusty Roads and Bill Sims are both electronically attending. Uh with that we'll have the pledge of allegiance. Def Council member Def is going to lead us in the pledge.

Pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. I don't suppose there any uh town manager report? No. Okay. So, we'll move right into the uh the agenda item for this special meeting.

That is the council acceptance of the final report and recommendations of the ad hoc committee on open space related to efforts to acquire approximately 4,05 acres of open space zone property currently owned by the Arizona State Land Department. Thank you, mayor. Members of council, uh, as my predecessor was fond of doing, uh, with with large scale subject, uh, matter. Um, I'd like to kind of just briefly, uh, for the benefit of the public and council, go over why we're here tonight.

Um, really this this all started upon the completion of the Spurcross Ranch Conservation Acquisition, which, as you all well know, we just celebrated the 25th anniversary, the culmination of those efforts. Um upon completion of that conversations between the town and began relative to the future possibility of annexation and reszoning of state trust land um specifically to our northeastern uh border of then town boundary and our western uh town boundary.

In 2009, the annexation and reszoning process was completed where 4,05 acres of approx or approximately half of the state owned land with the town of Cave Creek was zoned either open space conservation or open space recreation.

The town at that time commission which did not adequately consider the valuation of open space force or friends of recreation conservation and the environment was created through a joint letter of understanding between cave creek and desert foothills land trust that was done in 2009 there's approximately $114,000 in that account um currently three years ago staff began conversations with the state land department relative to the agreement reaffirming the town's understanding that Cave Creek has sole capability to initiate auction of the open space within a 20-year time frame, which is June of 2029 is when that is come to is when that is due to come to pass.

18 months ago, staff commissioned an appraisal of the 405 acres of open space zone property, which assigned evaluation based on the two zoning classifications, open space recreation and open space conservation, the location of the lands, topography, accessibility, and infrastructure availability. ASLD was party to those uh and affirm the valuation ranges that the appraiser assigned at that.

The town council and the state land commissioner approved 10-year extensions to those agreements in September of last year on the condition that the town of Cave Creek initiate auction and purchase of at least 160 acres of open space October 28th of 2030. Town council approved funding in this current fiscy year budget for the purpose of acquisition of open space.

In June of last year, the town council appointed a 15 member ad hoc task force committee to study and evaluate the open space and present the committee's findings and recommendations to the town council. And as Ian Cordwell used to say, and here we are. So with that, I will turn it over to the chair of that committee, Steve Lamar, to go through the report and the committee's findings and recommendations. Thank you. Thank you. Oops. I guess first I got to turn my microphone on.

You're out of practice, Steve. Yeah, turn your microphone. It's been a while. Um, I want to say generally that these are recommendations and uh and we went through a lot of data. We did a lot of studying and analysis. But in in the end, I want to put a caveat on all these recommendations.

and that is that we were cognizant and I was pretty steadfast with we don't recommend concrete things that we don't know are fact and there was a lot of stuff that we don't know for a fact there's partners that what they're willing to do and all those things so all of these are our recommendations based on what the information we have now and there's a lot more information through a strategic plan that I know is in the works where he'll know more.

So, uh we and the other thing when we approve our in our final meeting, we wanted to make sure that we didn't leave out any options whe whether you may like them or not. The only thing we deleted from our update which uh I can't remember the exact date but was not too long ago um was those things that time has made impossible now. Uh and there were just a few.

So essentially I what I'm going to say is that the the the the update we gave you in in the last session is essentially the white paper with some a little rewarding and some reconfigurations and also uh there was a we can prepared an executive summary so that you can get the the bones the skeleton right here in just a few pages and not be hunting through 27 to to see where we're at.

You know, the first thing I want to do is I want to thank Grady and I want to thank Luke because from the initial meeting in September, uh they were right there and they they had a solution for how we organized 17 people or 16 or whoever showed up to do anything. And guess what? It worked. We had separate task force. We divided up into three work groups.

And uh I I want to thank them because we wouldn't have gotten through this much information and this much work in this short of time without their expertise and their help and their knowledge of what was fact and what might be speculation and what might change which was important in our analysis. Uh I want to we we we divided up into three donations uh donations three worked work work groups and uh one was the communication and the outreach group.

One was the evaluating and prioritization of the open space group and the final one was the financing coupled with identifying shareholders and partners. Um, I I want to I want to call out because I want this I've been on a lot of committees and I've been on a lot of work groups and I've um since 1986 when I moved here and I will tell you it was a pleasure to work with these folks because they got down to it. There wasn't squabbbling. There was, you know, we were we have a task.

They stuck with our task. Everybody pitched in. Uh, and it was just a pleasure. And um so I I want to commend and I want to you know shout out. So if you will when I call your name stand up and I think probably you're going to get an applause here pretty soon. One is uh Stacy Daniel and Annie Moleski. She's not here this evening. Okay. Karen Tits, Carol Perry, and that was the communication and outreach group.

Uh the evaluation and prioritization of the open space areas uh consisted of of me, Barbara Miller, uh Paul Defendorfer, uh Kathleen Abbe and David Acriman, the finance and shareholder and partnership uh committee. consisted of of John Carbon, Bil Bilbasaur. And this is my one challenge. Monique Pu Ra Pu Paku Ra Marcy Kreman, Janet Moore, and Susan Demit. And I want to want to say this, all of our recommendations are contained in the work summary that the executive summary that you have.

Um, I think I'm just now going to go for the benefit of of the citizens here and just a little refresh. I'm going to go through the the uh PowerPoint that again Stacy Daniel created and but I'm not going to dwell on everything. I'm not going to read it verbatim. I just want to hit the highlights and direct you to the things that I think will most help you when you start off on your strategic planning. Uh, and I think I want to go first to page slide four.

Well, Luke's staff did a wonderful job on these maps and they really helped us and that's why we we included them in everything including executive summaries because you can see everything all the parcels that we're talking about are numbered and they're numbered and they're slightly different but they all can get you to which partial you're talking about and and and the considerations we used in our evaluation.

I mean, just roughly speaking, it was uh visual beauty, zoning, identifying features and benefits. By the way, we all did a lot of walking around in the desert and we and this committee looked at all of the parcels uh and we either looked at them from as close as we could get with a vehicle or walked to hike to them. Um, another consideration was connectivity and expansion. And connectivity means hooking up with our trail system.

Uh, and expansion means just simply put those parcels that are connected to either the the Cave Creek Regional Park or the Spurcross Regional Recreation Area. and because those that's where we may have the most likelihood for leveraging partners and it's I think one going to go a long way if we really analyze this correctly in in in forming the strategic plan for u just examining really closely folks interesting on each parcel. Now we have prioritized these And that's why we have a graph.

And let's go to page five or slide five. This graph basically is our thoughts. We've got all of the all of the numbers on the maps that you have. We have the parcel names so you can reference that if you're in the middle of a conversation, you know, talking to somebody from the county or land trust. We have all the locations. We have the total acreage. We have the safe trail connectivity evaluation numbers and the visual beauty vision numbers.

Now I want to caution you again, not caution you, caveat this. This was the best we could do to evaluate them and it was fairly difficult because in actuality and I think I speak for the whole group there isn't a parcel that wouldn't if that doesn't needed to be preserved and and would be a great asset to this town and the people of this town. So we walk around just kind of I mean literally kind of stag staggered by the overall beauty of the open space that's still around this town.

So this is our evaluation. It's our our own personal collective thoughts uh and evaluation of how they kind of rank in our view that that doesn't mean you wouldn't look at them and think a bit differently. uh and depending on who our partners are, how much money we have, who's those all things are going to going to going to change over time. Let's go to um six. Again, this is the the the Cave Creek major open space uh map with with the acreage and it's it's important.

It's helpful because you have the green and that's the the parks and you can in a flash see how our our parcels connect up with the with Spurcross and with the county park. So again, our primary goal was to give you tools that you could get to easily and have the foundation to make all the decisions you're going to have to make down the road. And turning to seven, excuse me, this is a recommendation, but it's it's it's just kind of an acknowledgement.

uh the town of Cave Creek has is in first line for for an auction and I think listening to your comments that uh we need to go well implementing the comprehensive of fundraising campaign evaluating the other financing options and getting an updated cost assessment will help determine the best course of action. Um so obviously if we think if the state requires another um auction and or we can make some purchases before the the time that they're going to require an auction comes up.

um that but just I know we were cognizant of the fact that we may have to get an auction another auction price on this and therefore the numbers we're going to talk about in the financing sections may change. Nobody thinks it's dramatic and we still have some time I I think on in fact I'm almost pretty sure that uh we have some time before the time runs on the last evaluations for for an option. Let's go to page eight.

And I want to really want to this has been condensed down for a slide, but boy, the outreach and communications people really did a wonderful job. I mean, they they created uh all of these communication suggestions and they created they created B lanyards for everybody. I think the badges and and the overall look is very professional and it and it's it's if you see it, it it it really kind of fits Cave Creek very well. And u I I just again I I'm not going to go over all these.

These are all exhibits to the final report and there are some exhibits to the the the written summary. Um but they did a wonderful job and this is just the beginning. I mean if you they did a really creative job and kind of thought outside the box and and thought about how do we get to the community? How do we get to our partners? How do we get to the corporate partners that might be be out there?

And I think along with you know just direct solicitation and I think this is a great place for you to consider starting. And one of the options that well one of the options one of the observations they made uh in our meetings was that the more we can get the beauty we saw out there looking at these parcels upfront with the with our citizens and with our potential partners.

Uh the land really speaks for itself and you can you can talk about the majestic swirls all day long but man when you look at a hillside of them with the with the light just right and I think that's what they tried to do with the online stuff is to put put the property put the land the great sonor and foothills up front and personal and let's go to nine. This is the the finance and shareholders part of it.

Uh I wanted to say a couple words but this is where we have you know aspirations and reality and they meet. That's not unusual since this is where we're talking about money. So we can have aspirations about everybody loves this. They're all going to pitch in, but you still have the questions of how much and who.

So, I want to caution you that this these recommendations, as you're going to see in in the main report, they're and they did a really really great job of a financial analysis, but things may change. Some things will work out and some things will not work out. There'll be good surprises and bad surprises.

And that's why I mean aspirationally, I'll say it again, if we could buy all these 4,000 whatever acres tomorrow, everybody everybody in this in in in this uh task force would probably be dancing in the moon. But we know that's not reality because uh it's a complicated situation. There's a lot of players. A lot all those players that could contribute uh significantly have other obligations that they're going to have to weigh.

All of them have particularly the governmental entities are going to have to run that through their process. So we we we're not giving you our aspiration. We don't think that uh any of these partials should be left behind, but we know it may be necessary. Uh, and we're not g we're not suggesting any concrete timeline for when you do this because we know that's not practical.

It's I'll leave you with this one on that on this is a sometimes sometimes speed is a great asset in accomplishing something. Sometimes speed is not best best to get it right. Best to do it right. Best to get it right and not worry too much about at least not be hamstrong to a notion or a misconstruction that this committee thinks you've got to get out there and get this done right away or you're not doing your job. that you this is this is a this is a it's going to be a challenge.

You all know that at least I know the mayor does because we've talked about it. It's going to be a challenge and the reason it's a challenge and we have to do it right is because if we meet that challenge we've done something as far as I'm concerned will benefit this town and the citizens.

It will put us on the map just like Spurcross did only this is a lot more and it will make this and I'm going back now to the writing of the first general plan and the negotiations there in 1986 just after we incorporated. If we if this town stays different, if this town honors the snow and foothills that we live in and cherishes it and protects it, then the more different we look, the more attractive we're going to be.

And the more attractive we are, the higher the more money we can get for our homes. Uh, and that's just a practical advantage. It's not about just saving dirt. It's about saving one of the most unique places in, you know, America and Mexico. It's I remember the first time I'd never been west of the Mississippi River. I remember the time coming down from Flagstaff and the first time I saw a sororo, I stopped and I went, "Wow." And I love the woods.

I thought, "Wow, the trees are beautiful." But I'm telling you, this land will sell itself. You're not We're not here to put any pressure on you. you've given us all the wonderful support and and we are happy that you have appointed us and I will I will quote Carol Perry at our last meeting who's been around this town a long time and has been involved a lot and as a local artist.

She said, "This being on this committee and working with you all to get this done is the is make is is a moment that is my proudest moment being a citizen of Cave Creek." And she was being absolutely sincere. And um I think that sentiment is shared by most of us that are on this committee and I know it's shared by you. I want to commit this and then I'll shut up. you need our help in anything, we're still we're we're passing this on now and now.

Now, you're the you're the folks that are going to get this done. And I have no doubt you will. But if you need anything, call on this committee, these committee members, because I'm telling you, one, they're wonderful to work with. Two, they're smart. And three, they're dedicated. And four, they got a little pass, they got a little passion about this because they love this town just like you do.

So, in conclusion, the members of the ad hoc committee, I'll repeat myself, are extremely passionate and eager to start promoting, marketing, and fundraising. We ask council to approve our recommendations. Acquiring the 4,5 acres of open space will benefit our benefit our community beyond expectations. Thank you. Do we have questions from council? I'm aware. Yeah, please put my microphone on. So, if I make a fool of myself, everybody will know it. Could you bring up the map again, please, Steve?

Which which one? Uh, that shows the Okay, that one's good. In number seven and number eight, I'd like to point out that between those two is an area that has been zoned resort. And I think that that can fit in with this. There's some natural resorts that would fit very well in Cave Creek. And I think, you know, I' I'd like to see something like that happen. Not Disneyland, but a place that honors seven and eight and fits in with those. Thank you, Luke. Hey. Um, anyone out here?

Uh, Dusty, did you want to uh ask a question? Take that for a No, Dusty. Uh, just go ahead and interrupt if you have anything to say. No, I have I have nothing. I think we ought to go for all 4,05 acres and figure out a way to do that. But I think we should tell the staff, go tell us how to do it. So my question is dovtailing off Tom's question or Tom noted that this is zoned for resorts these two parcels. I wasn't aware of that. No, it's between seven and eight. Between seven and eight.

Between seven and eight is the Yeah. So the only access all the access you come in the back or what have you. Um I mean it's a beautiful area. I'm sure it is. I personally I'm just you know speaking as a citizen of Cave Creek and a guy who likes to preserve as much as possible. I hope there's never a resort there. So that's all I got to say. Okay. Uh there is public uh comment on this.

David Phelps, I'm going to ask everybody to to keep we really can't talk about anything except this subject here. So you'll have to just keep your uh comments to the 4,05 acre project. Uh thank you, Mayor and Council. David Phelps here. I want to thank everybody from the bottom of my heart. This is really really as Steve said putting putting us on the map. Um maybe we could hide the maps so not everybody could find us but that's another discussion.

Uh like to invite people over for u to the library Thursday. This conversation can continue there after the council makes its recommendation and decision in directing staff so that we can just kind of decompress and see the way forward. 4 o'clock at the at the library this Thursday. Invite everybody to come. Council members, mayor, mayoral council, mayoral members and council members, uh, and any voters of Cave Creek. So, come on over. Let's keep talking. Thank you.

And thank you very much, Michael Wener. Hi, my name is Michael Wener. Um, first of all, excellent work by everybody. Uh, I just have one recommendation that perhaps that might be willing to consider. It's risk. What is the potential risk of these parcels being taken over by somebody at some future time? For example, if I look at number two, it's pretty much landlocked.

And while it may very well be an incredibly beautiful parcel, it doesn't really look like it's at great risk of a developer perhaps coming on in and and really deciding to go for it. So, while I'm in favor of trying to grab everything, I just would like to throw out a suggestion that you consider a little bit about the risk of these parcels in terms of somebody finding them attractive. Thank you, Bill Man. Mayor Morris and town council.

I'm Bill and I'm the board chair of the Desert Foothills Land Trust. And I'd like to introduce some folks who are with me tonight. Patrick Mcuarter, our interim president, Peter Berlin, board member, Nancy Dwood, board member, and Nate High. I'd like to thank the town of Cave Creek for the wonderful relationship that we have had over these years. I think we will all agree it has been very beneficial to both parties and it is our intent to continue that and hopefully in the future enhance it.

We live in an amazing part of the world. the Sonorian Desert, 100,000 square miles, Arizona, Mexico, Baja California, and a little bit to the state to our west. The only desert with two rainy seasons, Columbus Cactus, and the most diverse ecology of any desert in the world. And I want to condemn the people of Cave Creek and the the town council for undertaking this effort to save the 4,05 acres. This is a noble undertaking, not only for our future here, but for the generations that follow us.

Thank you very much. I have no additional slips. Okay. Uh so at this point I believe vice mayor has a motion to make. I move to accept the final report recommendations from the ad hoc open space committee and acknowledge that the charge of the appointed task force is complete and the term of the ad hoc committee on open space is hereby satisfied and dissolved. I Oh, it's not done.

and I moved to direct staff to update an appraisal of 4,05 acres of open space zoned property currently owned and managed by the Arizona State Land Department and move to direct staff to prepare an updated memorandum of understanding mutually acceptable to the Desert Foothills Land Trust DFL and the Town of Cave Creek TOCC whereby DFL would administer an account specifically for the collection of private donations expressly pledged to the acquisition of 405 acres of open space and I move to direct staff to come back with funding options for acquiring the 45 acres of open space.

I also have one amendment. Is that the right time to do it? Yes. Um to add a little bit of meat to the bones. Um, I would like to move to once updated appraisals have been received, I move to direct staff to proceed with the state land department to initiate an auction to purchase high priority parcels with the acred town funding. Second. Okay, Cynthia the second. There's no doubt that the mayor and I and the rest of this town council support this project in its entirety.

I think that you have done an outstanding job in helping us make these recommendations to get the job done. I would like to see action take place as quickly as possible. Therefore, we created the last addition to the motions. We want to use the funding that we have in place to purchase the property and then hopefully that will jumpst start others to also give. Um so with that um we're in favor and we look forward to working with the town to get this done. Cynthia, you had the second.

Thank you, mayor. This preservation of the Sonoron Desert is really our historic roots and it's the quality of our life here and it gives us that unique opportunity to truly enjoy our outdoors in so many ways, so many fun ways. I know I've enjoyed it. So many here on council have and residents and members of the task force likewise enjoy every part of our community.

So, this is a unique opportunity for us to move forward uh with due diligence along the way because I'm sure we'll hit some ruts uh as we go along the trail to making these purchases, but it's a great opportunity and we look forward to supporting it. Tom, um can I can I ask some questions real quick? Um, Vice Mayor, um, how much money would be available under your proposed motion or or roughly how many acres would be available for this initial support? Is our finance director in the room?

She's not. I believe it's 2 and a half million. Okay. And what does that get as with parcels? Do we know specifically? Well, we won't until we have the updated appraisals, right? Um, do we have any guarantee that this issue is going to be back on the agenda or with with staff recommendations? I've asked the question to the manager. Yes. Um, council member, so staff will be coming back with funding options and the funding options will lay out a number of things including the cash on hand.

Um and that as you know that um the open space fund I believe grows by about a half million dollars a year. So um by July 1st I believe it will be about $2.5 million or $2.6 million. Um and we'll be coming back to council with a funding plan which I anticipate that will be probably within the next two meetings or so. Um as far as um which lands or parcels we would want to acquire um much of the work that the committee has done is done some prioritization.

So I think we would take that in consideration once we get the um appraisal back and I just found out today that it would be probably done within a month to 6 weeks which is faster than the first time because they're really just doing an update to this. So, we expect to be back here probably within a month to six weeks that has all these different pieces. So, this is um some serious movement we have here and traction. Couple more questions if you'll bear with me.

Um in the motion you made and in the amended motion, is the council voting this evening to confirm its intent to purchase the 45 acres? I as far as you Yes, I would suspect that's the case. Okay. I'm just trying to make sure because we've had a prior discussion on this issue that the danger of ranking parcels is that it's a neighborhoodbased ranking often in terms of view corridors or traffic issues and things like that.

And there are some parcels, it was a gentleman who spoke earlier this evening, that that one parcel may not be a threat because it may be landlocked and so forth. Let me just take 60 seconds and and remind everybody here that the objective of the 4,05 acres is to actually beat the externalities calendar that's affecting the town. And without getting into too much political detail, we have a gumatorial election coming up in November.

You have a Democratic candidate, you have a Republican candidate. Both candidates and their respective parties have a different view on preservation and particularly here in Maricopa County in this town which has could been criticized somewhat in recent years over its intense focus and preserving open space. We had a county supervisor many years ago who had staff and he said, "But you guys are crazy.

if you had your if you had your way, you'd annex all the way up to Flagstaff and do 5 acres single family residential. And I tried not to smile because I was almost nodding in agreement, but um if the Republican administration successful in November of next year, it will begin with the certification of votes and then the probably the review and replacement potentially of cabinet level officers including the state land department.

The relationship that the town has with the state land department is colorized by having a Democratic governor.

And the last thing I would say on this issue is that with the I17 corridor becoming Arizona's Silicon Valley and three major land purchases in the last couple of months, the 900, the 700, and 500 acres, if you do not, I'm suggesting respectfully, if you do not succeed in going for more than just $2.5 million worth of land preservation this calendar year, And particularly prior to the fall elections, there could be a very palatable argument made that the best and highest use of open space is to provide critically needed housing, especially multi-family housing in this area.

So what I'm saying is that the state land department this month may not be the state land department next January. So it's great that 2.5 is going to acquire some land sooner than later. and the council's not meeting this summer. If something is not done before summer analysis and come back to the council and offer it for consideration, we may just lose the ultimate window to do the full purchase.

Uh I so I'm just concerned and I wanted to voice the concern with you that it's great and I love the amendment because it shows good faith and it puts skin in the game by doing that this evening. So, I applaud that effort. I just want to make sure that there's no delays, intentional or unintentional, by staff processing with other commitments that the town has to try to get this back before the council post your analysis and post your report.

While we have the current members sitting up here today and do something to continue what I think is still the intent, the comm's recommendation is to get the full 4,5 acres. There are probably 700 residents in this town this evening who would benefit from the saving of the 4,05 acres just in the category of viewparters.

Now, if you add in the ambiguities of the ambiguities of a dark sky, traffic, noise, uh connecting neighborhoods with streets if the rooftops show up, doubling the size of Spur Cross Ranch, which in itself is remarkable. I just think this is a great start tonight, but we have to hold ourselves accountable to finish this work this calendar year and preferably before summer. So, I certainly support the original motion and the amendment to the motion.

I just want to make sure we don't get overly placated or giddy with the first intended purchase and leave the other things out there. You know, Cave Creek is a lot of things, but it's not an island. and we sit in Maricopa County. We sit next to the fifth largest metroplex in the nation. And now we're next to the Taiwanese chip plants and all of the different neighborhoods that are coming out of the ground to provide worker housing down there.

I just don't think we can trust the calendar in future years to finish this acquisition. I don't think our request and our zeal to save public land and turn it into open space preservation and recreation is an argument which will hold sway with the critical shortage of affordable housing next to this economic megaplex of semiconductor production. We have a tendency to sometimes look quaint in the valley by people who don't enjoy what we already have and we're going to get this.

I think it's a mad dash to the border. So, I think I've covered what I wanted to cover, but I wanted to make sure staff's going to provide something to us. I want to make sure it's going to be back on an agenda before summer and if possible. This seems to me that we've got flexibility with funding options. Thank you, Mr. I have a question for Mr. Sims. Well, he's not here. Well, he's on the line. Go ahead, Dusty.

Um, is there a set amount that if we if we bond something that it has to go to the voters? No, it's just you has to go to If it's a property tax, not sales tax, no property tax, yes. So, if we if we chose to just use that half million a year that we've set aside, that'll pay for about $20 million right now. pay for about $18 million in bonds. So, we would not have to go to the voters for that because we've already set that aside. What is What is the source of those funds?

That's the uh half cent spur sales tax. Sales tax. Yeah. That not not it doesn't go to the voters. Okay. So, if we chose to continue that quarter cent, which is a half a million dollars a year, then we could bond the full or pretty close to the full amount if we needed to. Correct. The voters that I don't know. I mean, I I I don't know if you how much you could how much you could bond.

I don't know how long that would take, but I I can tell you under the statute, you don't need voter approval to pledge sales tax. Okay. You're forced. I mean, the finance side, you we we have a bond the bond council, and it needs to figure out how to do it, but it doesn't require voter approval. Yeah. because we we already have set aside that that half a million dollars a year. Yes. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Yes, sir. Yeah.

And I' I'd like to clarify um Councilman Freriedman and I generally agree on things. I' I'd like to point out I don't think there's there's going to be a difference because that parcel of land I was talking about is zoned resort. It's there. It it would be very difficult to get it zoned otherwise. But I'm just saying if a resort is going to go in there, we want to make sure it is a highquality resort.

And I think that will merge with the kinds of things that we're trying to do in preserving this land. Spur Cross was an amazing event. It helped to define the community and going forward with 4,000 acres. Whatever we can do will also help to define the community. I think that we have to be very strategic. Uh Tom, I I I I appreciate that you're saying if we can't do it all now, I'm not sure we can do it, but I do want to look carefully at being strategic on this. Mr.

Mayor, um I want to make sure that Thanking. We have to have everybody else speak one time before you Joe, I'm up. Okay. I thought you'd be up, Katherine. Okay. Um let me turn on my speaker here. Not that I'm hard to hear. Um, okay. So, I just wrote a few notes down. I'm going to go over them real quick here. Um, I'm an avid outdoorsman and a nature lover, especially if you know me. And I'm extreme, real extreme. That's why I moved up here.

I moved up here 25 years ago because I was sick of that rat hole down there. And I have to be near nature and I want to see nature get preserved. I also wanted to serve my community. And um, I hadn't done so yet. and I finally got my chance with you guys trusting me enough of you at least up to one vote I think. Um but I'm up here now.

Um so if you recall my visit to your house or my campaign then you know that besides the universal goal of water which is our big problem which we all know and we're all in a you know cahoots on that. Um I believe that my number one thrust if you remember back in those days in 24 I said I want to get this land thing going again. That's my number one goal. Okay. And if you've listened to any of these council meetings perhaps maybe on June 2nd of last year, etc.

122, you'll know that people on this council have said that this was dormant for 15 years. Now, I also said that same thing on 21925 in the Sonorin News. Did you find my editorial? I said, I have two goals in this town. And I'm not going to go over the second one, but the number one goal other than water was the land trust to get things jump started. So, we're sitting here like we are today. So, you know, I'm into this. Okay.

So, basically, um, what I'm saying right now to you guys, I got two questions. A to the staff, when will you get back to us on this? I believe I just answered that previously. Um, sorry. So, it makes sense for us to come back when the appraisals are back. So, we know what we're looking at as far as dollars, you know, because there may have been some either drop reduction or an increase. So, believe that was going to be done four to six weeks.

So, um, so probably about three council meetings, I guess. I said two previously, but I think that's the timeline. That's that's fantastic. Thank you, Luke. Thank you, Grady. Um, and then I wanted to ask also, um, when will the Desertfield Hills Land Trust be set up so they can start taking donations from private fundraising? Um, I want to get started.

Uh, Mayor, members of council, Councilman Friedman, uh, that's something that we are working with DFL currently presently to revise the existing letter of understanding that was put in place for force back in 2009. Uh, we are discussing those those details.

Um, I've met with the the board chair and uh interim president to discuss their their concerns and priorities in a revised document and we are working on that right now getting a draft ready to present to them to see if they're acceptable to those terms. Thank you. And I and I do agree with Steve. It's it's not about winning the race. It's about finishing. Okay. My whole life that's how it works for me. I mean, I didn't get out of ASU till I was 27, but I'll be damned if I didn't get a degree.

I ran a marathon when I was 24. Oh, I finished way in the back. But I finished, you know, four hours or whatever. You just got to finish in life. And we're going to finish this right here. I know we are. These people are committed, you the town, the staff, and um a lot of people were telling me before, and I'll finish up with this. They were telling me, Joe, you're you're you're not going to get this.

And I and nobody's going to tell me if I'm really into something that I'm not going to accomplish it. That's just not that's not my mo. And I'm going to play this for you cuz if you watch that football game the other day and you saw Indiana win, go Hooers. Even though I'm not I'm a Michigan guy. Um their coach said something that was just resonates with me and it should resonate towards this whole thing. Wait, I gotta get this guy talking here. There it is.

weekend and school was shut down for the playoffs. DID I EVER THINK SOMETHING LIKE THIS WAS POSSIBLE? Probably not. BUT IF YOU KEEP YOUR NOSE DOWN IN LIFE AND KEEP WORKING, anything is possible. Anything is possible. And I'm telling you right now, if you really are, if you believe in something, do not take no for an answer. Just get up, dust yourself off, and like a puppy that I have right now, just keep coming at them until they finally give in. Thank you, Tom.

You wanted to you want to back in? Yes, sir. Thank you. Um Tom, I'm not sure when you made the reference to strategic, I'm not sure what that means. What I'm trying to ensure is that the motion by the vice mayor indicates that we're moving forward and it was embellished or enhanced with the amendment to the motion. I think it was I'm sorry. I think we agree. No, I understand, but I'm not done making the point. Okay. Um, if you don't mind, I mean, just please.

So, um, we have the initial notion, we have the additional the second the first motion to the initial amendment motion. Sorry. You know what I'm saying?

Um, I want to make sure we don't have slippage because I want the vote tonight, I'm hoping to indicate that we support the 4,05 acres in its entirety that in fact skin is being put in the game by the motion to the original motion and that the staff is going to do its due diligence and come back with funding suggestions so that we can finish this calendar year 2026. The problem with the ratings is that it benefits some neighborhoods and not others. The council did not select the priority order.

The recommended committee suggested the order, but for example, spur cross 2235 acres, and I'm not saying this is my opinion, but one would wonder why the top priority would not be to complete spur cross coming down to the residential neighborhoods, the horse parcel that Patty Lley uses and the one across the street. If you only could pick a few of these either for financial reasons or logistics, wouldn't you want to finish Spurc Cross coming to the town border?

So, I just know that politics is a interest in and discussions and and so forth. And I want to make sure that with the adoption tonight and after the work by the staff that we come back and look to see if it's feasible because at the end of the day there are certainly funding opportunities or discussions on funding opportunities in 2026 that this council could embark on and come back in and do a not a phase two but a completion of what the inventory currently is.

So, I'm just a little respectfully uh concerned that we get the staff work done, we get back here before summer because all of the deadlines we're facing, I guess the good news now is we don't have to worry about November with the ballot.

But the bad news is is that um we are still facing I think everybody understands a political potential political change at the state level in the fall and the number one priority is the economy and that semiconductor campus and series of campuses coming in and it's hard to say we want open land but we're not a source of affordill housing even for our own community.

So, I think we are on a precarious ledge and it's great that we're getting some of the early parcels, but um I'm just hoping we hold all of our feet to the fire. So, thank you. Okay. Uh but time is fast. Sorry. I I do have one other point. When you uh when you get a chance Okay. Go ahead, Dusty. So if there is a change of administration, uh just understand just the same thing that happened to Scottdale with Axon could happen here.

I I think literally if we have a change of administration, we got one shot for this. And if we don't have it, at least um at least some plan for getting all of it. Uh we might end up with none of it because they're willing to take the zoning away. They've proven that time and time again. We can't we can't run scared. We we have to go for it. Okay. Is anything else, Dusty? Okay. I just think we have to have a plan for all 45 acres. Otherwise, we're just not going to get any of it.

That's exactly what the motion said tonight was we're putting the plan together. This is a big thing for the town and uh this is what gets the ball rolling. Um, first of all, it's really great to be working with Desert Foothills Land Trust again. What a record of success we've had over the years. Yeah. Secondly, uh this this project is our generation's gift to both Cave Creek and to the state.

It it's just a wonderful project which as Joe pointed out sat for 15 years until this council took it on. Second, I want to thank the committee members. This is some of the best work I've seen done. It was done with a massive number of people on on the committee, but uh it it really is good. And the enthusiasm is overwhelming. The enthusiasm is something that I uh that you don't see often in the dry work that we do here.

And the next step is to keep that enthusiasm going and get the rest of the community enthusiastic about doing this and to to pass that on. uh there's probably some in the community that are going to be against this. We don't know. And that's what the unknowns that that we've got to deal with in the future uh is uh there there may be some out there that are resistance because we we do have other problems and other issues to take care of.

Um for me right now, we have two big initiatives that I'm very proud to be a part of. One is is this one. The other is to get the the town's water future uh on the right track. And we're well underway on that particular issues which if possible is more conf is more confusing and uncertain than this one but we are making a lot of progress. Um we originally I was in favor of and I was 100% bought in to do an elect doing an election later this year.

Um and uh I had my mind changed by a couple of things. Um we have 2.5 million in funding which increases half million dollars a year. But more importantly uh 18 months from now we will have made our last payment on uh this currently has a cash flow of something around three and a half million bucks 4 million bucks a year.

So the town is going to be headed towards a much greater uh financial situation when that cash flow from the original bonds for the water company and the desert foot and desert hills and the wastewater uh pass away and we'll be down to about $10 million rather than the $65 million we started years ago. So that cash flow is going to give us a lot of resources and one of its the dedicated we have to do is we we have to stop the uh the subsidies also having subsidies uh from the general fund.

But we're going to have a a fair amount of cash flow to do the things we need for the two big initiatives which are uh the 405 project and the and the water. Um I um the other thing is if if you have an election, one of the real causes there if you lose the election and we just had an election over in Carefree that lost 8020 that provided better safety for the citizens, which to me is uh quite quite something. Um so it's not guaranteed.

So if you have an election and you lose it, that that risk is out there uh that the people have spoken they don't want this land. I can't imagine that, but it's still possible. Who would who would have thought we'd had the situations politically in the nation right that we have right now. So things happen. So I I'm definitely in favor of this. Uh I think we've got some great partners.

Um I uh the land is already protected substantially because we it's zoned uh as open space and uh absent the legislature and and the governor signing it uh that you really can't uh can't change the town zoning. There's the one case with Scottsdale which is in the back of our mind at all times and that's why I'm really enthusiastic about getting the contract. we have a contract for this that uh they'll put it up and uh buying that first piece of land kind of gets that contract going.

So, we're making it more and more difficult every day that passes for any changes. And I don't I don't think that uh the kind of land we're talking about here is exactly going to solve the housing problem because it's it's low density zoning and it's z and low density is where it's going to be. So, I'm I'm in favor of this. I'm going to vote for it. And I'm really proud of of this council and I'm proud of uh of my role, too, in in putting this getting us to this point here.

Um and uh I I really look forward to working with the members of the committee and I want to congratulate you once again on a fine job that you've done here. So, with that, we'll have our vote. Um and uh let's have a waste vote. So, yes. Roll call. Yes. Roll call. No. What' I say? Thank you, Teresa. Verify. Council member Augton. I. Council member Driscoll. Yes. Council member Freriedman. Of course. Council member Maguire. Yes. Council member Rhodess. I. Vice Royer. Yes. Mayor Morris. I.

So motion carries. 70. Yes. Thank you. That completes our business tonight. I move we disintou. What about the council members? They got themselves. It would be, you know, maybe a bribe. We could do that hundreds. Thank you.