Cave Creek defers $1.28M Food Bank project, appoints Morning Star Trail task force

is now called to order welcome to the regular Town council meeting the town of Cave Creek Arizona for Monday March 6 2024 um we've had a roll call already and we've had an executive session so we're at the Pledge of Allegiance Joe would you please lead us Li public announcements uh I guess everyone probably saw on number of outlets that we had a we had a brush fire in town on of Highland uh Sunday a pretty exciting time there for a while appears that it was contained I'm amazed that it stayed down that wash and did over the sides so it is fire season and just as luck would have it tonight we have a discussion uh on uh on fire uh and the firemen are out of fire right now there's a structure fire in town so they left a few oh there you're coming back they're still there oh so we have structure fire going right now so it's an exciting time for the fire department first thing on the agenda uh is called to the public and um I'm going to do a little business uh that we missed at a meeting in uh March yeah uh Terry Webb submitted this March 25th 2024 on item number two regarding the Phoenix interconnect and uh she wanted to have this read and since it's not on the agenda tonight I have to read it here at called to the public uh so uh Terry if you're watching sorry we missed this um and I I I can't answer the question here because of it's not on the agenda so I'll have to give you a call we have a really good answer on that uh so um she says I would like my comments to be read aloud mayor Morris and town Town Council Members thank you for your time I understand the need for a water supply connection what I am struggling with is the exorbitant cost to our already high water maintenance treatment facility for a population of 5,340 residents when the interconnect with the city of Phoenix was initially discussed in 2019 was a cost analysis comparison with the town of Carefree with an already available and existing water connection and did our town reach out to Carefree about a possible comprehensive settlement agreement and as I said I can't answer that because it's on the agenda but I will call Terry and answer it in person um soon as I get her phone number with that do we have any other called the public yes we do first up is Joe fredman Joe fredman 420 North 71st Street Dave Creek Council staff citizens I just wanted to say something real brief um you already brought up a fire in Highland I happen to live on Highland um and I was here for the big fires I think it was 2020 and I was having a conversation with somebody the ex council member Paul deurer and he said you know we got to educate people and I said yeah I've heard that since I've come here more people are coming here from other places and Etc we we um at this stage this is just my feeling I think the council needs to investigate possibly coming up with some form of an ordinance like other cities have that pretty much is requirement for uh Property Owners to do something about their weeds I mean stink net five years it started at Ben Avery five years ago um it's a problem right now we never had it before when I moved here we've got fires that are going on all over the place um just for example Glendale Arizona if anybody saw it had a big article in the Republic about them they're going to have an ordinance for fire now um weeds uh cottonwoods got an ordinance uh like a lot of places do um just FYI um Grants Pass Oregon and I can send these to you guys too I can email them to you uh bismar nor Dakota tall grass noxic weed control if we don't do something about this our homes are all going to burn down and uh the other thing is is that um when I spoke to the uh fire people out there I went out there the next day he told me he said it's going to be a rough summer and uh we got lucky last year so I hope you guys will consider you know putting your heads together maybe coming up with some sort of ordinance uh so the citizens especially the ones that are coming in from other places will understand this because education's not worth it thank you thank you Melissa Melissa she's gonna be my that way first of all I would like to address all of the people that are saying that we are anti-trail that is just complete nonsense and you need to stop saying that I love the trails in Cave Creek that's why I moved here from the East Valley so I can get on my horses and ride them right from my house so whoever on Facebook or whatever I'm not on Facebook you are spreading false information and you need to stop that is not what this is about this is about private property rights and I'm talking about about the Morning Star Trail by the way government overreach and the cost to the taxpayers of this town this is about people spreading false information and then saying that we are uninformed star thoron I am talking to you you don't know me you have never called me to have a conversation yet you tell the world that I am uninformed I am informed I have made it my mission to be Point as the saying goes a picture is worth a th words so here we have a picture right here where this arrow is that is where my property starts and Mark staff's property ends that is according to the map the trail map I printed off the city council website this Switchback right here is this exact point can she approach so you guys can all see it closely we we've been out there and we're you I haven't been right there I promise you we have three minutes so we're going to have to hustle here that's okay you still need to look at it yeah because you really can't have access to that area it's like a 30ft drop straight down at the minimum um some parts of it are 50 foot it's a cliff and that's right where your Trail says you're going to do a switch back so you're going to do a switch back into the thin air are you going to build a bridge that area is always getting washed out with heavy rains Jerry Freeman does a fantastic job of maintaining that road every time it gets washed out he goes out there and he fixes it so I'm not sure how you're going to build a trail according to the paperwork staff is gifting a 10 foot easement and there's definitely not 10 feet probably not even two feet to complete that switch back that will go right into the air like I said are you going to build a bridge that's going to be very expensive I could tell you this I would not take my horses on that Trail I would most likely stick to the road it's safer that's what most responsible horse riders would do so now they would be on my property and on Jerry's property so would I be responsible if there's a death or an injury that road is very narrow and if there's a trash truck or another car coming where's the horses to go it could be a very dangerous situation also on the incline to Mr Freeman's property is just as dangerous I do have pictures for that as well I can email them if you would like me to and so we're going to do all of this trail that ends at Mr staff's property and I have a picture if you'll flip that around oh we you're you're three minutes you're three minutes just done right here this is where Mr status's property ends there's a pink flag and it dead ends right into somebody else's private property so where exactly is this Trail going to go so I ask you what is the point in all this thank you thank you Ruth silent Bruce Arland uh Morning Star hello councel uh I just wanted to say that I uh in Abraham aay on Saturday hiked and found one of the alternative I believe uh still owned by the town Trails Old Wagon Trails very wide I sent those pictures to to manager Grady Miller this morning via email that's it I have this for you as well uh it's very illustrative of what we already have which is a great Trail going from the East to the West I just wanted to say that if it's about Trails we're in good shape we have trails from the East to the West this particular Trail on Morning Star going to the 48th Street alignment through a neighborhood where all all the people actually don't want it uh is a short Trail relatively speaking and uh I'm completely opposed to it now I know it's not the agenda item but I also wanted to say that we have an aerial map this aerial map shows uh alternative options for for these trails that I was mentioning and from spur cross over the creek into the West we're in real good shape guys we have Trails if this is about trails and I'd like that to be put into the record these two documents appreciate that very much thank you mayor that completes the call to public thank you uh Town manager report uh not a lot tonight but I I did want to touch upon um as the mayor referenced we did have a couple fires this weekend um as we're starting to get into our uh Fire season it's it's really important for people to be aware of their surroundings um the two incidents that we had were actually uh caused by um humans people that were working out in the desert um either near their homes or contractors working on uh Properties or fences and so um what I wanted to just make sure that people are aware that they need always take the right precautions we're also um about ready to start installing um another few weeks some new um evacuation signs so in the event that we did have a serious fire there would be um signs so that people could see our evacu evacuation rout route which is actually on our our website um also we are going to start um getting ready for additional labor to be around for the uh Wildland um uh fire task force that will be available starting the middle of this month um apparently um I was not here but the horrible fires that we had four years ago All Began in May so it's all appropriate to be trying to do that this month and then also we have those um digital um sign boards that we have we're going to also have messaging on that that relates to uh fire prevention and other types of related messaging um that's all I have at this point Thank You mayor thank you um next on the agenda we have a presentation a presentation of community firewise report presented by the director of community risk reduction and eron casm if I pronounce that correctly from the Arizona Department of Forestry and fire service who I believe was out here over the weekend he was out here all weekend yeah I I I stopped and talked to him Sunday morning and he he hasn't made it tonight we lost it for tonight so um if it's okay I'll go ahead and do this and councilman El Ela can you please come down and bring your a board to the front actually you have one one board member representing tonight okay and uh mayor and Council vice mayor what we're doing tonight is we have um officially received our second firewise Community certification and it's Ranch ranana and Council manela and his board over there have done they've been working on it actually for about a year and a half or so it's been a while to get it cleaned up to reduce the fuel loads to make sure we have access and so their uh Community was officially submitted to the state which is the Department of Forestry and fire management and the National Fire Protection Association and they have awarded ranchel Manana as cave Creek's second firewise community so I would like to congratulate you for that here's an official certificate thank you and as part of as part of your price you get a Sonic so all right our first fire wise was uh Whispering Hills and our second is R from it usually takes a community to do this awesome thank when Jim came to the board at uh the HOA board um he really helped us understand that fire the fuel load that was you know lying under all of the underbrush how important it was to get that CL up and the members of our HOA really took that to heart and uh so they spent a lot of money cleaning that mess up the the uh golf course was also a partner in it allowing access to places that where where the homes are right next to the goers so it's been a great effort and it looks awesome so everyone participated you know once we identifi areas to clean up all of our all of our owners were very very diligent in taking care of a Ely bases that's what makes a difference so you briefly tell us what what is what's involved in in getting that award so that others might be interested in doing it um you pretty much have to be in association because they won't do it on individual houses the awards so we're don't have very many homeowner associations in town so we've picked off the two biggest ones so far I think we have two more that we can do but basically what it entails is you're looking at access you're looking at Water Supply you're looking at type of construction for your houses and you're looking at the fuel load around the houses which is your brush and Fuel and is it overhanging onto your your roofs and all that kind of stuff so all the stuff that we've been talking about mayor and Council for two years about people establishing defensible space around their homes you don't have to have a firewise certification but people need to do this because the more you establish defensible space around your homes and clear out the flash fuels and the invasive fuels and that stuff the better chance our firefighters will have of protecting that house in the event of a fire which is again a great example that was on Saturday morning so or Saturday afternoon so um again you don't have to be firewise but the defensible space need to happen for everybody we talked about the education a little bit earlier somebody mentioned that we're going to keep doing it it's up to the residents to to do their own homes and protect our properties it's not as much what your neighbor does or doesn't do it's what you do for your property and Ranch minana took it upon to make everybody notify of that and they all they all did it okay thank you very much thank you next on the agenda is a presentation of the uh uh 2024 employee benefits study conducted by Logic compensation group may we forgot to consent agenda excuse me I I'm just uh made a little mistake here oh we're going to do our consent agenda next approval of off trck paramutual wagering license at herold's restaurant doing business as herold's Cave Creek Corral located at 6895 East Cave Creek Road requested by David Johnson vice president of Turf Paradise and uh we're looking for a motion to approve that item on the consent agenda move to approv consent agenda all those in favor by saying I I opposed I have it pass the 70 now we're on to the uh presentation of the 2024 employee benefits study thank you conducted by Logic compensation group presented by the deputy Town manager and logic compensation group mayor mayor and councel um unfortunately Teresa couldn't uh be here this was her project but as just a little bit of information and background for the public the council will recall that back in the fall there was a compensation study that looked at the compensation of our entire organization and as part of that the um logic compensation group gave a presentation on its recommendations to um have our salary ranges be much more competitive with the um surrounding area which um Council gave Direction and that's happen happened but as part of that there was some a good discussion um during I believe it was the strategic planning process just to ensure that our benefits provided to employees are comparable and competitive with our uh neighboring communities as well as those elsewhere in the valley so uh before you tonight um you're going to see a presentation that will go through and compare our benefits to other um uh those that were surveyed not just in the valley but elsewhere in Arizona so with that I'm going to turn it over to Lori Messer who is the managing director of logic compensation group and she has a uh presentation to go through and feel free at the end of the presentation or along the way if you have questions for her she'd be happy to answer the questions the best she can with that I'll turn it over to miss Messer thank you good evening May and counsel uh today I would this evening actually I'd like to um share with you just a a little bit about the study background give you an overview of the process um how we initiated the study what we found throughout the study along with our recommendations and uh talk a little bit about some considerations for some benefits enhancements here at the town just okay I'm just I got to get used to this little Qui clicker um we were engaged by the town to take a look at at uh the town's benefits to see how they compared with um surrounding municipalities and other uh towns and cities in Arizona that were of similar size we wanted to understand how do the town's benefit package stack up against the market and is it competitive So based on that um we phase one was the study initiation uh phase two was where we went out and collected the market data then we analyzed it and then came up with some recommendations throughout the entire process uh we did have um ongoing Communications with the town in order to make sure that we were all moving in the same direction so with regards to the study initiation we met with the town's former Town manager and the deputy Town manager T town clerk to understand the current state of affairs with regards to benefits and understand where were might be some areas of concern then we worked with the town to develop the questions what were we going to ask about in doing so um one of the first things that we took a look at is who are we going to compare against and this comparator Market mirrors the comparator market that was utilized for the compensation study those organizations in Orange did not actively participate however they did give us their information and we um extracted it from what they provided only one organization did not want to play and that was the city of Sedona we got no response from them at all so pretty good um response rate pretty pleased about that um when we developed the custom survey sent it out to the comparator organizations and then when we got it back we did several validation checks were there any extreme number or data that looked unusual um if there was we reached out to those organizations directly to get clarification in order to do the analysis um similar to the compensation study we need to have five data points um so in doing so we surveyed Health and Welfare benefits retirement savings and planning benefits paid leave professional and career development benefits and other things like allowances bonuses and other special services the good news is the city is highly competitive in the marketplace with regards to their benefit package the city is actually leading in one area and that is um the offering of Columbus slash indigenous people's day as a paid holiday other organizations may use things like a floating holiday or something it's not specific speically pointed out as Columbus Day there were a few areas three in particular in which the town was lagging um those happen to be the wellness a wellness program and incentive uh technology allowance and a vehicle allowance and I'd like to expound upon those a little bit more with regards to the wellness program um five of the organizations came back and said that that is a benefit that is done through their health insurance provider things like incentives um and whatnot Health screenings preventative screenings things of that nature other organizations where the wellness program may not have been offered through the health insurance company as well as those that did have it through the health insurance company there were other things like gym discounts for employees um finan cial coaching uh nutrition programs and coaching that were coordinated through their organization and not the health plan um the wellness program is a lowcost typically a lowcost um benefit program offering for employees when it comes to technology allowance this was kind of a tricky one to determine whether the town was leading or on par or I'm sorry lagging or on par because it's our understanding that um the town does provide employees who are in need a cell phone right there's no outside allowance um of the organizations there were 86% of the organizations offered a technology allowance with an average of about $74 a month okay that is taxable income um however a cell phone provided is not so that was kind of a tricky one uh to assess uh the next area in which the town was legging was a vehicle allowance you weren't lagging terribly um 59% of the organizations do offer vehicle allowances but they're typically a benefit for mid-management and above um a lot of the organizations that did not offer vehicle allowances did have town or city Vehicles available for employees to use throughout the day if they needed to go to different locations those that did offer the vehicle allowance did not allow for that those um city-owned or town-owned Vehicles were available for individuals who did not get an vehicle allowance the average vehicle allowance of those that did offer it was $452 a month so yeah um so so overall um this is good news the city is or the town sorry I keep saying City I know it's Town um is well aligned with the market when it comes to their benefits program offerings to employees we did have some recommendations and things to consider um if the we would recommend a wellness program of some magnitude um however big or small it's um a good benefit for employees it helps to engage employees and it like I mentioned earlier it can be implemented at a low or no cost um there might be some administrative time but it's very nominal um another thing to consider would be uh wellness program incentives and I don't know I know that there's going to be another Health Plan offering and sometimes through the health insurance carriers you can get a discount if you do things like um an annual fiscal or whatnot so um and then also potentially consider a vehicle allowance however I also understand that the town has vehicles for employees to utilize as well those were really the only two um you know only couple of things that we out of the survey that we came up with as recommendations we do understand that there are going to be some improvements uh to the benefits program beginning in July of I guess it's just two months away um I we understand that you the town is going to be expanding the current um flexible spending account amount um adding Delta Dental to the dental um plans offering another medical plan option for employees offering additional Voluntary Life insurance as well as offering voluntary pet insurance so those are some nice enhancements to the town's benefit offerings effective in July so we did want to recognize that despite the study there's been some additional enhancements that are coming around the event so that basically covers it thank you other questions from Council seeing done thank you very much great thank you very much next on the agenda is uh Council discussion is this some one gr that we're going to do next the U number two there actually since it kind of covers both Department directors um I think we may want to just do this I believe Sean's part of this as well yeah yeah so we'll go ahead and do this as well okay Council discussion possible approval of a construction manager at risk CM contract with soran Crest construction to complete tenants ten improvements to a shell building constructed under a separate contract with the Foothills Food Bank for the approved joint ground and premises lease agreements approved by the Town Council by resolution r222 d18 presented by delopment Services director and the utilities director who is uh joining us via zoom and Luke's going to take the lead on this right Luke yeah thank you uh mayor members of council uh if you recall um back in 20 20 22 the Town Council adopted a resolution uh adopting a joint ground and premises lease with the Foothills Food Bank uh whereby the town would uh lease um approximately two acres of land out at the wastewater treatment plant to the Foothills Food Bank and the Foothills Food Bank then agreed to build the town um utilities department and Public Works uh staff office um space totaling 3200 ft um as you can see the project is underway construction activity is happening out there with the with the food bank um this um this contract before you this evening uh selects the contractor Sor and Crest construction to proceed with the finishing out of that tenant space that is being um built and given to the town for its use um utilizing um Community risk uh Mr for boards uh brilliant contract for semar uh that he used for the fire station we we essentially use that as a boiler plate for this exercise um solicited bids and um that's what's before council tonight um just as a side note the um staff the utilities department and town engineer are essentially sharing the the cost in their budgets respectively approximately half and half since it is a joint um building for reach Department then I don't know if if Sean oh there's Sean if Sean has anything to add um that's mic we can hear you can hear you fine okay back guys going to add was that um you know there this will just be equipping the the finishes inside the building and doing mechanical electrical uh there'll be still other actions that will be coming back to council um uh we're I'm bring I'm doing one for a duck bank which will connect the existing Water Ranch building to the building uh so um we'll actually have the our portion of the building will be powered by the plant with its macup generator um and there will also be a network connection between the two buildings and then we have a another contract we'll be bringing forward which will be for the um the systems Furniture to equip the furniture inside the building so this is a first of a couple of actions but it's in both in our Capital program in Wastewater and um tap Creek Water as well as in public works to fund it both this year and next year to complete this phace for Town staff so we're looking forward to this this will give staff a much improvement in the works space that they have down there you got questions by Council uh I have a couple this is a lot of money and it's my my calculation is hund and almost $200 per square foot you say this is only a part of the uh of the improvements yeah our our um mayor council uh we've been told is the duck Bank between the building uh for electrical power that's about $100,000 we're working on that detail right now um that allow the building our portion of the building powered by the treatment plant is a fairly far distance 800 ft we have to uh transfer and the furniture uh estimate right now is coming out at about $120,000 to equip the furniture for the building what what else is coming is it we're sing this in pieces we had the one piece for the building now we have this piece and I'd like to see all that together at one time rather than a piece by piece so we know we're getting into if one follows the other you like to see the whole thing at was okay we don't have that in front now but the next action will be coming forward in the contract for the duck Bank um so we can give you an outline of all the all the costs uh to completion with that action which will be coming in a couple of Council meetings if that's okay Council mayor council mayor if that's okay we'll come back with a table that shows um this action and then all the other anticipated expenditures so you can get a bigger picture of it unfortunately that wasn't uh something that had been planned on for tonight but it's a very good question yeah I I'm just Blown Away by the size of number or the square footage blown away completely so I'd like to see the whole package before before I'm agreeable to doing anything so are you wanting to just carry this over then yeah i' I'd like to carry the we can we can get a motion if you'd like to but uh yeah I think we we can withdraw and just come back okay very good thank you uh next one is the council discussion of possible approval of a Professional Services contract with NCS Engineers to provide design and permitting uh support to repair and upgrade the Third Avenue enjoy Ranch Reservoir booster site in the Desert Hills water system for an amount up to $58,900 presented by utilities director good evening mayor and Council um so as as presented here this is one of the facilities that we have out in Desert Hills is the thirdd Avenue J Ranch reservoir uh the site also contains the larger um uh well in Desert Hills uh you have an issue with uh on the Arsenic levels so since the town's bought this operated the system out Desert Hill has purchased and operated the system we've had to blend the water out there um and it actually also provides a boosting capacity for the lower pressure effectively the area south of Desert Hills or Joy Ranch Road in Desert Hills next slide briyan um so this is this is showing the site relative to the the uh Desert Hills distribution system so um there's been a couple of inspections of all those reservoirs we have four active steel reservoirs out in Desert Hills um there was a 2015 inspection and then we followed that up in 2022 um in 2022 we actually engaged with NCS to um help us um uh put together the uh estimates from or the the inspection reports that we got from the divers how we inspected them is we actually had divers go inside the inside the tanks and find out what's going on with them um and then they prepared an estimate of the repairs for each of the four sites um in addition to the uh repairs just general things that Coatings uh interior structural uh um Rafters that need to be replaced inside the steel Reservoir um NCS also indicated there's a few things that we should do for safety and operational improvements um just the uh the site is is needs to get an update based on that next slide Brian um so what we're trying to do is actually look at uh um not only the uh current improvements to this Reservoir again this is the largest of the steel res reservoirs out in Desert Hills uh we want to look at the um the booster station itself uh one thing that's coming out of the integrated master plan is that this is actually a good location to look at doing a second booster station a high pressure booster station uh currently uh the area is north of Joy Ranch Road in Desert Hills is being fed from another site called Seventh Street which has a small tank um it may be more efficient um to actually uh consolidate the reservoir the boosting capabilities at this site so we're going to look at how we could lay that out and the other Nuance of this site is um while it has the largest production well in Desert Hills the uh the contaminant level of arsenic is higher than uh as allowed for so the town uh in 2010 did some pipeline improvements and then what we do is we effectively blend uh treated capap water from the Cave Creek system through a line so when the well is running the Arsenic blend line actually has to start first before the well will run um it makes sense to disconnect that arsenic blend line uh and look at doing Wellhead treatment that was actually something that was considered um several years ago um when there was a discussion on how to do arsenic treatment out in Desert Hills um but they elected to move ahead with these pipeline improvements we're finding that the the way the pipeline system out Desert Hills works is is um not optimal because of the the closed vowels and how the system is being isolated to to force the cap Creek Water up to this site so uh NCS has uh both experience with this tank they were involved in the 2022 assessment um they could help us look at how to the second set of booster site uh booster pumps and they also have experience in the Arsenic uh blend system arsonic treatment systems at other facilities throughout the valley so we thought there'd be a good exercise to get that all done at once so what we're looking to do tonight next slide Brian um is just that the action would just be to for the design and permitting side of of the um uh um this project for $58,900 uh once a contractor is selected so we'll get together and this will give us a design package some plary design on how we can improve the site and then a design package for the reservoir repairs that we can then go out and bid uh the goal will be to bid it over the um um late summer into the fall and then uh take the reservoir offline in the in the fall winter uh to do the repairs anticipate probably we'll have this site off offline for about a month while we complete the repairs necessary at that time we'll come back and amend this scope will work with NCS for the construction phase until we get a Contractor on board we don't know uh how much they need and how much time they're going to need but this will get us to a preliminary design on the site and a detail design for the reservoir repairs so with that I can answer any questions questions from Council when you're blending with capap water uh can you give us an idea of the ratios that you need in order to bring the water up to permissible standards yes M councel um currently the blend for program that's been approved by Maricopa County Environmental Services for Desert Hills is um it's a 50-50 blend and that was something that was established back in 2010 it's something we've looked at so effectively for every gallon of well water that that site produces we have to have a gallon of Cave Creek um treated capap water going through the site um we've been looking at that with the new integrated model um we think that we're pushing so much uh Cave Creek water into Desert Hills that we might be able to reduce that and we're going to do some evaluations um of of the water coming into Desert Hills and how much would get up even if we opened some of the close vals in the system but right now it's a 50/50 blend we have to have 50 for every gallon of well water we have to have a gallon of treated U capap water coming in from Cave Creek to that site is this in the CIP or is this going to be as part of the rate study when we update it is this going to be paid for by us or is this going to be paid for by the users Sean M counts Council um this this project actually the reservoir rehabs is been in the CIP it's been in the CIP for a few years um just because of Staff resources um we're getting a late start this year with it we were supposed to do it last year uh we've pushed them all out um the extra work associated with the um the um looking at the booster sites and the Arsenic treatment that's coming out of our integrated master plan but this is part of the Desert Hills um Capital Improvement program so it's being paid for by the Desert Hills users that's where the funding is coming from thank youbody else uh question I have is uh you mentioned closing some valves to to put pressure up there is this is this part of the problem with over pressuring some of the pipes that we seem to repair a lot Council um with master plan we've seen some interesting modeling results um uh so yeah the desert Hill system struggles partly because of the number of closed valves um to help Force the water um at Cloud Road and 24th Street into the system and then North up 12th Street and then across joint Ranch Road to the site um we had a recommendation from the consultant uh black and& Beach to look at opening some of the closed vals to help stabilize the pressures in Desert Hills a little bit better and that might actually in case also help the pressures on the Cloud Road r on the The Cave Creek Side of the system that feeds that U we do have online monitoring at the the interconnect site we put that in place over a year ago and we're seeing the impacts of that we think the largest impact is when we fill the 14th Street Reservoir which then in turn is used to to double pump the water up to Joy Ranch the recommendation is that we look to um uh take 14th Street offline and see how the system operates that way and it might be more efficient and stabilize the pressures uh from the flows and pressures and flows going into to Desert Hills from Cave Creek which will be benefit both systems okay other any other more questions um there's public comment on this no request mayor okay so uh does somebody want to make a motion I will make it motion to approve a Professional Services contract with NCS Engineers to provide design and permitting support to repair and upgrade the Third Avenue enjoy Ranch Reservoir D booster site in the Desert Hills water system for an amount up to $58,900 Second this is financial so roll call please council member Ela yes council member McGuire yes council member Rose council member augeron council member Bunch yes vice mayor Morris hi motion passes uh 70 next time on the agenda I think uh Sean that's yours too is Council discussion and possible approval of a Professional Services contract with NCS Engineers to provide design permitting and construction Administration to upgrade the 38th Street booster site for an amount up to 99,354 presented by the utilities director so take over okay thank you mayor and Council so um 38 Street boosters site you can see it here um R can go next slide it serves the area north of Cloud Road on 38th Street and goes north into the uh to serve the properties currently there's 21 homes being served by this booster station um the the site itself has a bit of a history in that um uh just before the town purchase of water system there was a booster station placed out here by global Water it was not part of the purchasing of the system so um they removed it and the town put this system in in place immediately after we took over the system because we could not get enough pressure up to the top of the hill in fact on 38th Street um but what got put in place is just a single pump uh single um um um pump motor assembly so we do have spare equipment but um in the case of this facility if it goes down uh there's 21 homes that are directly impacted we've actually been seeing some development activity up in this area they're all ploted Lots um the area is defined by the the the Shaded area there shows the 40 lots that could be served by this property or this booster in total so we're pretty much maxed out with the single booster station and it's not good for reliability so we' be looking to increase the capacity of this site next slide Brian um so this is the existing site there's actually a a sound enclosure staff have built over it because it's so quiet out in this area that um this motor as it ramps up and down in it speed um uh the neighbors can actually hear it um so we've put this closure over it but there's a single pump at this site a small hydromatic tank but again it's one point of failure for all these customers so we'd like to look at doing a a dual pump system and then we like to also look at um with the master plan we're uh trying to look at fire protection um um for this area north of this booster station currently we can Pary the pump capacity which is only about 30 gallons a minute in fir flow so the standard we've adopted is 500 gallons a minute so with ncs' help we're going to look at the site to see what we could do uh if we could have a temporary pump connection or if we could put a pump in place that would allow us to get that type of fire flow up there while meeting the more domestic demands the one real challenge to this site that it has only singlephase Power when you do larger pumps and motors you usually like to have three-phase power if they come more efficient um but NCS has done these types of sites before so they think they have some options for us um but with this the scope of work is for them to do design um construction and then construction Administration they came up with an estimate of how much we need to do we'd also like to look at um uh maybe putting in some new distribution lines out in this area because there's some properties just north of the site that really don't need the Boost they can actually get adequate pressure um from the the Cloud Road water line um so by running some parallel water lines we could actually um lower their system pressures out there and take the some properties off of this so that's part of the why Design's a little bit higher than say the prior scope because it actually includes some pipeline designs on it um so next next slide Brian um so again the first uh two steps um Define the future needs we can do that based on the master plan requirements we need to talk to APS we need to find out if the site to be upgraded to three-phase power um and then we have to come up with an evaluation of the fire pump that we couldn't install here either a temporary connection or if we can actually design one that will work at the site um so uh with NCS they'll do design permit and construction Administration this this um uh uh scope of work next slide Brian we're asking Council to approve this contract so this is in the current capital Improvement program to get uh started this year we actually have most of the money um be in next year's CIP to actually implement the improvements asking for authority to start the project with NCS Engineers they can start the design phase and get that going for the $99,000 but that includes the um bidding and then also construction Administration is so at this point we think uh $100,000 will get is all the design and um assistance we need and then we'll just get we'll figure out what the construction is in Fall once we're done with that I can answer any questions question for Council I turned it off instead of on Sean what horsepower are those pumps that you're looking at pardon was that the power of the pumps the booster pumps yeah currently it's a single we have a single um I think it's a five or seven and a half horsepower pump out there fed from um a single phase 120 volts uh circuit so it's not ideal for a for a larger booster station that's one thing we want to look at to see if we can upgrade that currently the the motor drive for the unit actually converts the singlephase power into three-phase power to power the motor that'ss setup Motors on those currently all right yeah that was my that was my curiosity question thank you yeah U I have a question on economics U we're GNA pay $100,000 for 21 houses and U there there's the other houses when the other houses are built up there and those other Lots um I guess that's the capacity charge that they'd be charged to come in to buy into that system so that at some point we'd get the $999,000 back so to speak or some portion of it yeah um mayor council this um yeah so again it's potentially 40 houses in total unless we can put some parallel pipes in to reduce that number um so there's 21 currently customers which we think are don't don't have as the reliability that we would like to be able to provide to our customers but the project itself was was um put into the uh 2022 update to the capacity fee so as the fees get paid for the other properties as they develop uh the town would get reimbursed por partially for the work do you recall what those capacity charges are now they're not that high I'm trying to think for a a 3/4 inch meter it's $7,000 and for one inch meter it's like just under $122,000 I think currently Hefty charge yeah okay thank you any last questions uh there is public comment no submissions mayor okay so we're looking for a motion I can motion to approve a Professional Services contract with NCS Engineers to provide design permitting and construction Administration to upgrade the 38th Street booster site for an amount of up to 99,354 second this is financial member McGuire yeah I just said it yes council member Ro council member augeron council member Bunch yes council member elk yes vice mayor Roy yes mayor Morris I motion passes 70 and we're on to thank you item number six uh Council discussion possible Direction uh Sean thank you for being on tonight number six is Council discussion possible direction to staff regarding the development services work plan update presented by the development services director May right May are you holding five to the skip five skip five oh we did yeah okay ah okay that's what everybody's here right must be subliminal I thought you was doing that on purpose no I'm just I've been flip looping be all day long okay Council discussion possible appointment of Morning Star ad hoc task force members presented by the town manager thank you mayor uh mayor and Council um you recall that on February 6 um the acceptance of the easements for the construction of a um Trail called Morning Star Trail was on the agenda um this Trail consists of approximately um one mile of four foot wide easement of which it would be um only um for uh Trail use such as Force back riding um and non non-motorized vehicles um at that council meeting there was quite a bit of opposition um also council members um opted not to um take action on that uh particular item um due to the concerns that were raised um staff came back at a later time under the reports from manager and recommended that at we do two things one was to actually hold a um openhouse um public meeting for the sake of the residents to be able to get input and feedback from them as part of this process um it was important to try to hear from the residents not only those that are impacted but those that might want to see a trail in the area um and then also the second part of that was to involve the residents and some sort of a public process where they would um participate in a task force or a committee to provide um input to the council uh with their findings or recommendations so before you tonight um we we actually did on April 22nd and a a public meeting it was started off as a um open house but it was just not um conducer for that we had between 80 and 100 people in this room and so we decided to go ahead and we gave a brief presentation on the um um on the trail project and then we heard from a number of residents um both against and and a few that were in favor of it so then um we also had residents at that same time go ahead when they signed in um they were asked if they wish to participate on the committee so based on that we used the sign-in list for those people at the April 22nd uh public meeting to to then develop a a listing of people that were recommending tonight before you um to serve on a seven member ad hoc task force so in your packet um what we have suggested is a process um their charge or the uh mission of this particular task force will be to not only study and evaluate the proposed Morning Star Trail and the easements but also look at other Trail Alternatives besides this so they're not only going to be looking at just the um the Morning Star Trail but they will also be looking at other Alternatives besides this and then they are charged with uh developing a report and coming back to present that report with the task force um findings and recommendations and ultimately the council will then make a determination on that as you see in your package there is a proforma meeting format it it kind of illustrates what the meetings might look like um we're recommending to try to do as what we can to FasTrack this and what I mean by FastTrack I mean it's not going to be done anytime soon but we're looking at it being done probably within the next six to eight weeks and having this completed and then having them come back to you um we also have recommended um members of the public to serve on this um we try to keep it as balanced as possible with definitely two people who are uh either neighbors to this uh potential easements that might be accepted and impacted by this as well as um two that are definitely uh very strong Advocates and then maybe three people who are um undecided um the names of the committee members are in your packet we also recommend uh because sometimes having been involved in these types of processes um we've seen sometimes where people have every good intention to participate all the way through and and for whatever reason um they they either cannot or they have to drop out and so we're also suggesting that we have the uh task force Alternatives or excuse me alternates to serve in the um event that one of the uh primary task force members are unable to complete their duties with that I'd be happy to answer any questions um that you may have either about the process or how this might work I have not mentioned the names but they're um it's entirely up to the council Council typically does the appointments of these types of um committees also want to let you know um this will be a total transparent process so we will do um meeting notices we will have agendas and we will have uh meeting minutes and the public will be available or excuse me the the public will have the opportunity to attend all of these meetings as they're being held with that I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have one thing I I'm really is if there are minority members who don't like what the majority rules will there be provision for a minority recommendation or report you know my my understanding on This was um I have seen both ways sometimes it's just the majority sometimes it's the minority but I don't have an issue and I don't think the staff does either entirely the uh entire decision decision will be made up by um the council but the key out of this is the report that will have their findings you'll see not only what they've studied and what they've evaluated but also their conclusion and then um Council will be able to to make um an informed decision on which way to go I have no I have not gone that far to be honest with you merid to see if there would be like a supreme court with you know a majority opinion and a minority opinion I didn't even get that far so uh i' if there I um having been on committees uh the first six years of my time in town government um I think it's important that that people who have a difference different opinion have a chance to present that so they Council can hear all all sides good good point I I have no issue with that uh questions from Council I uh I have some heartburn over the individuals some of the individuals who were selected to be on the committee I feel pretty strongly that it should not include current plan commission members former council members amen I think that um it needs to be Grassroots um and so it should be strictly residents who are currently not affiliated with theend on any committees or commissions um I did have some suggestions if you guys want wanted to hear it I I so that would eliminate and I'm also going to say this on the record I have heard that there might have been some confusion um when a person signed up for U when they signed the list that they were in attendance that that also meant that they were interested in being on the committee um so uh vice mayor if I may clarify that separate question it wasn't just one sign in it was very clearly delineated so there's no way that that could have been yeah in fact we even had people asked to be removed from that okay very good thanks for the clarification uh so that would eliminate Ron Sila and Steve Lamar uh from the recommended task force members and that would also eliminate Paul Defender because he's a relatively recent Town council member um it would not in my opinion affect Terry Smith because he was on the council so many years ago at least a dozen years ago so I think oh I'm sorry I'll repeat myself it would eliminate if we agreed with these suggestions Ron SOA and Steve Lamar since they're both on the plan commission um and it would eliminate Paul defend derer uh as an alternate because Paul was a council member in 2018 so relatively recently um I don't think it would affect Terry Smith he was a council member at least a dozen years ago 20 years ago so I think that he is representing his community um in place of those people I think jod lesen would be a wonderful candidate and um I think Beth Balman would be another good candidate I think Ernie Weber would be a good alternate um and I think we need to pick one more alternate if you agree with my suggestion I do have a question about who the staff lead would be I think it's important that a senior member of the staff help lead these discussions or at least be around the table that person would also I would think coordinate the meetings and coordinate the communications effort uh vice mayor um good point and just for the sake of answering your question and I neglected to say that but tonight um I just want to let you know and the public know that I intend to attend every one of these and provide any kind of technical Support also our development services director will be taking the lead and I would be looking at him doing more of the the staff work but I will be there providing guidance and Direction very good that's great I have another suggestion for for a name Bob Anderson used to be on the Planning Commission I think he's uh he's not involved in any of the pieces of town government he's kind of a kind of a neutral guy I don't see him on this list I don't see him either but I I think we ought to reach out to him to see he's interested because he he did want to serve on the Planning Commission and he's kind of a neutral neutral party I mean he Liv Bob Anderson he was on the plan commission yeah yeah former yeah I'm not sure about that I mean this list is from the people who were at the meeting and that's where the list was generated I mean I I'm not the sole vote here but um to me it's only fair for the the people who were at the meeting who expressed an interest should be considered and there's plenty of that let's uh let's make sure I have the right names you you have uh I suggested for the two people who were Jody lesen and who's the other uh Beth Balman and Ernie Weber and he could I mean those people could interchange however you'd like to see that it could e they could either be recommended or as alternates and that's just my idea I think others have her idea well to get a decision Once you turn into a motion let's have some more discussion first Mr okay yeah well we really not supposed to have discussion until we have a motion on the floor but uh but you open the floor to discussion among the council members uh yeah I guess they did okay also it's really hot in here somebody pleased with the a so who did you want to say something Tom uh Mr chair um I didn't necessarily want to get into a list of for and against um I want to make sure the main thing we're doing is we're not deferring a four to3 vote from the council to a four to three vote to a group uh I'm encouraged by the explanation of the group from the original sponsor which was Dusty rhods and from discussions with the town manager but it is reminds of that scene in Casablanca where uh Louie the French police chief says found up The Usual Suspects um it almost seems we should have people chosen from a hat so we can't count the outcome before the study uh David Smith's name is still on the list he's a former member of the council no I took it off did you take that one off oh no you had oh I meant I I crossed it off on my sorry so I you know I'm not here to suggest names or either for elimination or for addition I just want to make sure this is not window dressing that uh we're taking the four to three that probably exist for a decision for this group and giving it to another group to give us political deniability just for clarity I don't even know how these people are are going to vote and it could depend on what you discuss at the meetings um so I I didn't base my selections on that no no and and Mr Mayor and Katherine um I'm so glad you made the suggestion you did because I had actually suggested earlier to staff that anybody in the pnz I think has jurisdictional conflict because we don't know at this ad hoc Advisory Group would be sending something onward to PNC related to this site or other sites it just seems to me not the best hygiene to have pnz current Commissioners on the ad hoc Lo and then with the former elected officials uh to to bring them back as part of a political decision this soon after having served so I was very pleased to hear your suggestions and I certainly support it um and then I guess there's the belief that the committee could actually do some good not only with this issue but other related issues as well maybe it'll it'll metaphor metamorphosize or go on to uh after its work is done some type of a permanent committee or interim committee or standing committee that would look at uh parks recreation things related to open space but related to site specific places in the town for a different type of open space parks recreation so forth I don't know if that would be the natural outcome but it might be a potential benefit so I'm still plugging the David Phelps concept of pocket Parts in certain neighborhoods so well that's for another agenda item uh I have a comment just briefly here if I can I'm I'm absolutely pleased with the opportunity to include citizens in this in this conversation Paul um every time um so we've we've committed to training volunteers right in at the planning commission level didn't we do a conversation or we funded some training for volunteers um who offer their thoughts about issues that come before us and before them um I'm interested in the difference between an ad hoc committee and the distance that this sounds like it could run it doesn't sound like this is situational it sounds like this these are new voices to help us reflect on what we hear from the town so that's a question I have um that I'd like to hear U answered before we move forward um we and um to to my delight actually we're fortunate to have people are interested in sharing their energy and the opportunities AR are on planning there's a utilities group there's a grants group there is in this conversation the potential for a Trails group and a water group unless I'm mistaken those are a lot of Community Voices and I'm wondering um I I know because of my experience on the Planning Commission I know that there is a structure for how we run those meetings do we plan to Overlay that meeting structure on each one of these groups that I've delineated or do um and I know there's a a a sense of urgency here I feel that I i' I'd like to have this um shared with with our constituents but I think we're just a little short on the planning here and this might be one of those ready fire aim deals shorten the planning what way well um it it feels like I don't know the specifics of how these ad hoc committees will operate or this ad hoc committee so that's that's the question I have I guess if I'm wrong but but planning commissions are defined by state law and by Town ordinance ad hoc committees we have the ability Town Council has the ability to set them up and I presume set the rules as we see fit so this is meant to be and those investigative ad hoc committee and are those rules set they they have to follow the state open meeting law yeah I mean anything we do as long as they follow open meeting law I think they're okay and that's what the that's what Brady just told us so there'll be somebody taking notes right if I may council member um again the council can change this but what I have written as the Morning Star Trail task force um charge or Mission the purpose of this task force is to study and evaluate the proposed Morning Star Trail along with other Trail alternative Natives and present the committee's findings and recommendations to the Town Council to consider so they're going to be very limited to this I and I I realized that council member augeron was saying you know at some point maybe that would be great for this to be expanded into some other some other opportunities um such as parks open space Recreation you know um also uh council member EA I'm not sure you you started talking about that you had another question and I I lost like where you're going with it and if you could repeat it or put it into some other way that I can understand what you were trying to make a point of I think the only point I was trying to make is that if we're going to ask citizens for their views on this issue I want them to be in a safe space uh with clear Direction and and I think that's all I need to say about that um and just to let you know that as an example the very first um in the meeting outline that's in the packet we've described that we'll provide all the research materials and all that the very first meeting we'll kind of give them the lowdown on how the meetings will be conducted we'll try to get a chair and a vice chair we'll do all the things that you typically see in a border commission but it's not going to be a border commission it'll just be this ad hoc task force that still has all the requirements that a board commission or Town Council has as far as open meetings law that an is my question in the setup or uh selection of names there was an attempt to get individuals who were clearly on at present on one side of the issue individuals who were on the other side of the issue and select individuals who might be neutral how does that uh dovetail with the suggested names that you have vice mayor I'm not entirely sure I'm not I have to be I didn't select them byal yeah I just know them that they're active in our community that they're vocal that they care um and to me that dedication is more important than where they stand on issues I much from this side of the table mayor I just had one other point I just want to make um there's been a lot of criticism both from the public and um we've heard council members Express concern about having current um Planning and Zoning Commissioners and and former council members the the thought process with that and I'm I totally again the council this is a council appointed body so whatever you wanted to do I'm not trying to um change anyone's minds but all I was wan to do is kind of share with you the mindset a lot of where I've worked in other communities your your Commissioners that are on Planning and Zoning have work groups that are studying particular issues they'll come back and and report back their findings and so that was kind of where I was coming from with that a lot of times these Commissioners have that kind of background and experience and sometimes can synthesize very complex land use or or other types of issues so that was one of the reasons why we were going down that path um the other the other reason was they did sign up and they were they're also residents as well of the community I'm not trying to persuade you I'm just saying that was the mindset that went into that thought it wasn't we were trying to get you know people have suggested that we're trying to stack this group or whatever that is not the case at all I don't even know most of these people that are on the list so and I I had involvement um helping to select the people so okay that's why I think it's important to be able to have a minority uh report also so we we hear make sure that all sides of the issue reach reach the council level um I ask you one more time what what names did you suggest what names did you suggest the names that I suggested first of all just to reiterate who I suggested be deleted from the recommended task force are Ron Sova and Steve Lamar to be replaced with jod lesen be and either Ernie Weber or Beth Balman and I think uh that David Smith was also of concern well we didn't I didn't get to that yet okay that's the alternative okay I didn't see Ernie's name on this list he's on on shows everybody got sorry about that all right so then for the alternates we had to take Paul off and David Smith and so we would need to replace them with two other people so so Jody and let's just flip a coin and say Beth for the recommended task force members if that equates with the the strategy that you're after kind of two and two and two or two and two and three and then for the task force alternates it would be Ernie or Beth and then one other person out of the list do anybody have um a vote or suggestion as an alternate well what why don't we see if we can get the main one appointed and and take that motion then we'll just take the second motion to do the alternate so are there any more discussions on the process or questions so why don't you turn yours into a motion then for the recommended task force right I Beth baldman on this list Beth baldman is on the second page page 162 16 Elizabeth mind okay thanks um I hereby recommend for task force Force members for the Morning Star I move I move I move the recommended task force members for the Morning Star Trail task force by the way the word task force in itself means shortterm it's not an extended committee it doesn't it does it's not ongoing it's a shortterm it has a task that it will address and recommend and then it will be gone if we wanted to change that after it's done that would be like for the mayor said so the yes sir public comment what are you pointing at me would before sure let's see here they're saying that public comment comes before the motion is should be made yep you're right you're right thank thank you thank you so let's take our public comment and then Joe fredman thank you Council staff citizens so um I just want to give you a little background about me real quick and then I'll get into my points so I'm Joe fredman I reside at 420 North 71st Place in Cave Creek I've been there since July 31st of 2001 I moved here in 1981 due to the lure of the desert and my love for The Unique diversity of the state so when I first arrived DED here you could say I invested since then basically the majority of my life here in Arizona so I consider myself an accomplished hiker and Outdoorsman with over a 100 rim to RM Grand Canyon hikes to my credit as well 15 of those being doubles rim to rim to rim all going straight through when I turned 61 I left the corporate world to work at REI where I was recognized as a hiking expert and people coming in for advice for rim to rim or doubles would be directed to me that's the tip of the iceberg for me let's just say I understand the value of the outdoors and open space when I was a student at ASU in the early 80s I first came to Cave Creek to check it out it was then I was convinced I must live here someday in the late 80s and 90s I lived at Joe Max and Pima with friends in a rental house five acres next to Pinnacle Peak our nightly excursions we would come to Cave Creek to hang out at the treehouse with MC Brown uh in the bowling alley as well the old cart rights um I came here to hike and explore as well now the town and its citizens are at a crossroad I realize it's not always been fair or perfect on the path to making Cave Creek the absolutely unique community that it is today but I think a lot of progress has been made and that you just need to consider tweaking the plan in tonight's Council agenda following on my suggestions for the Morning Star challenge so it becomes a reality by the way for the record yes I am in favor of a hiking trail being completed that cuts through there somewhere okay Point number one I think this can be done in four meetings not five by combining the first two meetings in The Proposal from Mr Miller number two I think you need to have the findings and recommendations turned into Council for discussions at the vote on July 15 so the council meeting on July 15th that's when they should have the recommendations turned in and that's when the vote should occur before um the election takes place um that gives the citizens committee a reasonable 70 days to get this done those meeting dates should be on Tuesdays May 28th June 11th June 25th and July 9th and if it's on July 9th then you'll have at least about a week to kind of pull your uh stuff together to present it Point number three if the meetings as proposed by Mr Miller are public meetings I believe they will turn into a mess if public comments are allowed at them you didn't mention that earlier I think it'll work best that if the public has concerns or questions they can email the committee and staff prior to the next meeting to be considered for discussion by the committee and staff I had a point number four here but it's already been covered um and I will say that um I agree with the thing about the candidates I I I thought about that today I'm not candidates but the council members I also believe that if you are a candidate like I am right now for Council you should not be able to be on this committee right now I know some people did sign up for it um also I want to say that um when you said who's going to lead this committee um my original uh writings which have been changed since then since I read the agenda I thought lukee would be with your guidance Mr Miller's guidance I thought Luke would be the best choice which they've kind of confirmed Luke's lived here as entire life he knows everybody he knows the situation he knows the players for and against it just makes sense and uh I mean our Our Town manager did admittees only been here a short time so anyway Point number five it's always better if you can make decisions about your own future if the current Council does not accept this recommendation in a timely matter that that opportunity will go away and we'll have allowed someone else to make our future to decide our future Point number six remember Joe how many points are there this is it this is point number six and that's directed to you guys and you guys if you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem Kathleen Bay hi I'm uh Kathleen a bay I live at 42620 North Gava Ranch Road um I had asked to speak at call to the public so maybe I wrote it on my sheet wrong I'm I came with Melissa to show the photo of we actually had it up during the call to the public we thought somebody had taken your place when Bruce was so I apologize for that but um and thank you for having this discussion and being open about it and thank you vice mayor for taking those people off the list because that would have been one of the things I would have brought up also but it is a very contentious argument um the I do have liability concerns I know you're here to discuss the committee right now so I hope that you know those discussions are going to be put in not just whether we put the trail here or we put the trail some plac El um the fact that the neighbors up there which I am one of them I live up there we already have ATVs coming across the Mesa on the other side Friday night we had eight of them blow through and they come down through that Rocky crack area which is quite dangerous and you could tell they're having a hard time and then they went around and they went down our road our easement and there's a gate at the bottom and in history has it that they blow through the gate they just bust through it or they break it with bolt cutters or whatever my point being that if we don't have the trail right now it's not a public Trail right now we still have this nuisance and we become the policeman for it we did call the sheriff we wanted to report it the sheriff had all good intention of coming but he couldn't locate us because we're so isolated where we are and the other point is that there are private lands up there and the people at the top are not going to let these people come through so you're construction constructing without a budget to put this Trail in and you saw the significance of the drop it's going to cost a lot of money to do that I'm not an engineer I know just constructing my house my excavation costs that was what threw our budget it was way more than when we thought it would be so the dollars you put to that trail when you could go further north and have a trail that maybe is needing a little bit better cleaning and won't have so much controversy around it um might be better served so liability too and Melissa brought that up so I don't want to be redundant um on private property uh you had mentioned at the open house that you would the town would only be liable for that injury on the town portion of the trail but how do you control that everybody's going to be liable who has anything to do with that trail but thank you for removing those people off the the suggestion I don't have a copy of the list so I don't know who all is there I did have confusion so you were right about that I saw it and it said in the far right are you for against the trail so I said no so if that also meant can do you want to be on the committee I just took myself right off and I didn't even realize so you know yeah but thank you very much I appreciate the discussions um and I I love living here thank you thank you are there any more speakers Abraham a we have um three more the rest of speakers please limit yourself to the agenda item which is the appointment of the task force since we missed your call the public we let that go thank Abraham aay 42620 North kava Ranch Road first of all I want to thank the committee the councel the mayor especially you for bringing bringing this to the public view what it has done it has immensely brought a neighborhood together so tightly together that the neighbors that did not know each other they have become one voice so I want to thank you for the opportunity to build a neighborhood a neighborhood that actually wants to take care of one another that actually cares for one another and has an agenda yes their agenda is to protect one another unfortunately there's a flip side of this coin the flip side of this coin is people without knowledge of what this neighborhood is they're acting like adolescent children at Junior High School casting stones at good people with good Hearts so I want to caution you whatever decisions that you make however you go please remember you have re reive the trust of a community and the trust of that Community is it has been given unto you to look after the Commonwealth of the community that has neighborhoods and it is the agenda to bring these neighborhoods together to build Cave Creek not to divide Cave Creek you know I read the scriptures and it says to love the Lord thy God with all your heart with all your heart with all your soul with all your mind and with all your strength and then love your neighbor as yourself so whatever challeng is before you you have to think that you're in a neighborhood this town is a neighborhood so you have to have a love for each neighbor to realize whatever decisions you're making it will have a a impact and that impact has to be to bring Unity to Cave Creek it has to preserve Cave Creek and it has to help the community to become stronger in itself to work for itself Not to cause division so I thank you for putting this little agenda together I have to agree with Tom augeron that this should really be not necessarily appointed by individuals that we know so that it Stacks things one side or the other but it should be in random in Randomness people will come realizing that they have an agenda and if they truly have a love in their parts for Cave Creek and for the Neighbors the outcome will be good and the alternative would be to bypass this area thank you for your time have a wonderful evening thank you Bill Bor my name is Bill basor I live at 2415 East Rockway Hills Road I am your farthest west resident in the town of Cave Creek and Mr Mayor his vice mayor member of the council you keep showing up and last time I checked the pay is not very good so I really want to thank you for showing up you know what I want to really talk about is being in favor of the trails all the trails in favor of the open space and I want your neighborhood to include my neighborhood so that we can be neighbors together I do not think we need to be divided I think there is a compromise there I think we need this committee desperately the task force because what's been lacking is an opportunity for me to sit with with you you know we we agreed in that earlier meeting that we all love the trails we love open space and I I've got to tell you something I experienced exactly a month ago a really serious health emergency Health situation and it was imperative that I get my blood pressure down and there's the best way to do that for me is to pretend that I'm looking out the trails that adjoin my property and I'm watching people on Horseback and you know how the I just love that and I could see three people wearing cowboy hats on horses going down the trail on a beautiful sunny day and that'll take 40 points off your blood pressure right there we need this open space and you need the open space the town is currently thinking about how to acquire a great deal of open space that and Bruce brother oh he's got his earphones in you know what some things are missing from this brother and I appreciate you but see see what's right over here that's where I live okay and it's not even on this but you good job of cover uh yeah but I'm just wait a second I have a point direct your comments to the council but that's why we need to meet and do this together because please please uh let's as if that is a bad thing that's why we I'm inviting you to come visit so also the Cave Creek Regional Park is not on here there is a tremendous amount of space over there that everyone in the East part of Cave Creek will absolutely love to visit it's a beautiful area there Apache Peak Apache Three Peaks is magnificent when you go to the saddle you can see as far as you can see with no sign of human habitation and we want to make that part of the the rest of cave Creek's town so thank you for creating this committee and the opportunity and let's see if we can find a good compromise there's got to be Alternatives we got to find something that works for everybody do we have any more speakers Julie goldammer okay everybody please direct themselves to the committee formation only not to the not to the pluses the minuses where it ought to be in favor just the formation of the committee I will that's the agenda item I'm Julie goldammer I live at 34022 North 52nd Street um I want to thank you um mayor Morris and vice mayor Royer and all of you members of council um I think without piling on many of my notes that I already had I I promise but I do want to reiterate a few things um I think trust has been uh lacking or it's may still be lacking but I think U um people are coming around right I want to thank you all for putting this openhouse concept and the possibilities for more public input that is what helps us keep our govern government transparent this is huge and that I do want to totally speak in favor of this task force I also want to uh Echo ironically I have some similar names um I won't continue to say what I what Katherine already said but I do want to say I think it's very important that we have some input from the people who have served for a long time on Planning and Zoning because I feel they can provide some very good input so I'd like to see Planning and Zoning be part part of one of the meetings at least um at some experts subject matter experts in addition to Legal experts because I believe there are some uh risk management issues that need to be addressed with trails in general in town um including Financial issues as well um I do uh agree and actually I had some recommended people um the fact that some of us volunteered to be on this I don't think that's a bad thing if you ask me if I want to be on a committee I'm going to sign up every time that's just who I am whether or not the fact that somebody is a candidate or not that doesn't make it a bad thing um I think it's fabulous that there's so many people that want to uh serve on this committee and I think there are some other Fresh Faces in town that should be included and I wanted to recommend Beth Balman Tracy Davies Andor Michael Balman uh Beth has amazing project management skills I have worked with her before on several different types of task force again Elizabeth Balman um Tracy Davies also in her day-to-day Activity Works with clients and project management and they are fabulous people they are very very um well spoken they are very thoughtful and they have worked in the public a lot so it doesn't matter I I agree that whoever it ends up being it will be a good uh a good step in the right direction and I would like to say I am also equally in favor of keeping something like this Trails equals preservation preservation is awesome I am totally for that I think we need to have some sort of an ongoing commission that deals with trails and conservation and preservation thank you thank you may our final speaker Lisa geman hello Council um I'm on this list and I'm oh first I'm Lisa Greenman I live on Morning Star and I wanted to thank vice mayor Royer um for her um perception of what a Grassroots Community Committee should be I wasn't planning on speaking tonight at all but I just really wanted to say that because um do councilman augeron sort of said the right thing Round Up The Usual Suspects is what it looked like and I think that this Committee in particular should be a citizen committee and I know my name is on there and I would like to say that I know of these people I have met some of these people but I really don't have any opinion and to some of the other things that have been said I I would also say what I do know of these people and I know of myself we have volunteered a lot we have been on many committees I used to run a uh board meeting every Monday night um um and we know how to uh call in planning or turn to Grady and say hey what we need some information you know or we know how to do these things trust your citizens here trust your citizens um I think that Katherine's suggestions have been they're they're really good suggestions um so that's all I wanted to say is that um I think that you have a wonderful opportunity we can all go be adults and ask the right questions search for the right information and come up with uh some sort of solution and to Mayor Morris's point we want to hear minority and majority and so we can piece it together and see what's the best for the town because that's actually where we want to be is what's best for the town so thank you very much and thank you very much again mayor ro oh vice mayor Ro Vice mayor it's vice mayor all the way mayor that concludes the public comment for this item you wrote number six for your agenda item do you want to speak for number five okay come on up Bron Sila mayor vice mayor councel I'm not here to promote myself one way or the other I'm just here to remind you and and I've seen names being tossed on and off and about and I would just oh I'm sorry okay and I would just like to see whoever you appoint on these committees I wish you knew all of them and you could select the ones that would be very objective in addressing this issue it is important I would not like to see this issue be treated uh subjectively I think whatever is decided should be for the best betterment of the town and not by any uh stretch of the imagination for individuals and their personal dislikes of what's going on or should be going on or where it should be for the town and you need to do that objectively and I'd also point out I think these people that are selected should have a good understanding of property rights as established by our Constitution and I think that people should have a good understanding of what Cave Creek is a western town a Southwestern Town an equestrian town and how it fits into our general plan that was approved in 2021 so I hope that the people you put on this have those qualifications and I would only hope that you knew them so that you could make that informed decision and it would be a balanced ad hoc committee thank you thank you okay mayor now that concludes the public comment for this item thank you Carla um so I guess um at this point we are we any questions from Council let's just make sure we've got all that cleared and we're looking then for a motion a motion all right you need the first one first before it goes down so you can do the other one get get the modifications so I'll do that if you want well you you don't have to the per whoever makes a motion does not have to make it with the people on there right you're not constrained to the motion that's written well we're agendize this yeah that can be a modification uh I think what we need to do is approve this and then come back to the questions that the vice mayor had as a a second motion no let me I the chair is going to rule here and the ruling is is that that that whoever makes the motion can make the motion they want to make and if that includes these members or not and then we'll have an opportunity uh for Amendment after that but we have to get started on this place somewhere okay well I'm up you're up I move to recommend the task force members for the Morning Star Trail task force include Justine Fritz Stacy Daniel Lisa Greenman Bill basor Terry Smith Jody lesby and Ernie Weber as alternates on the task force I recommend or I move uh Matt Copic Beth Balman and Tracy Davies be included Tracy Davies yes okay is is there a second to that I'll second then okay um discussion or an alternate motion either one I just have a question so you're retaining five on the list and then suggesting two do players is that yes okay it's Ernie Weber and jod Le yes four four new players no well on the recommended two on the two on the committee and two and two alternates right oh okay so I guess let me just continue the question with your permission so if are we doing the alternates right now also sounds like we are the motion said the alternates too so that that's on the floor so tell me the alternate list again the alternate is Matt Copic okay Elizabeth Balman and Tracy Davies other other discussion yes sir I truly appreciate that the process that was gone through was would collect would select a committee in which we would truly have majority minority and an attempt to balance I'd certainly be more comfortable if I knew where these individuals were within that filtration process well Tom can I respond yeah you may certainly I think that that speaks to Mr aon's concern that we would kind of be setting up this task force per the way that people might vote and I think that we should not do that I think that it should be as neutral even if those of you who are on this committee feel strongly about your positions I'm sure you will enter into this task force membership trying to be as objective and neutral as possible that's what we can hope for all of us okay I hear you comments from here uh my my comment is I don't know a number of people on this list um I'd say almost half so uh and U I mean they're not going to make the final decision if if they do really really good work and I certainly think they will looking at the ones I know that they'll make good recommendations and we'll have all the facts out there and we'll make the very best decision have the very best information to make the decision that that for the whole town um so uh and if I may make another comment I think everyone who has expressed interest either to you or with staff is to be commended for coming forward and uh making themselves available this will not be probably not be an easy task I hope it's an easy task but probably it will not so I certainly want to give credit to those who uh have volunteered whatever you know how they feel we've never had this many volunteers for hold a terrible job cutting it down to size uh with that um as since it's not Financial we'll take a Voice vote and see if we have any denters so um all those in favor of the vice mayor's motion please signify by saying I I all those opposed it passes 70 how about that again and it's not even 8 o'cl so good luck to the committee members yes thank you all right Ernie which which number am I on now you're not we're going to go to six six all right yeah Council discussion possible direction to staff regarding the development services work plan update presented by the development services director this is for discussion and Direction and it has public mayor and Council before uh our development services director gets underway um when I first came on I heard from a number council members um you know that had an interest in a number of items that were under the lead of of our development services director and the development services um department number of things that might have come up at the strategic planning uh process that you underwent last fall also um such things as state trust land and a number of other items so um in other communities I worked in um we had um departments do what I would call a a council approved work plan and that's what we're trying to do tonight which is basically what I would call items of importance to the council giving you an update on those and then we would periodically come and and um do um refinements and come back and show the progress that we've made on those since the last time we've done an update um this is your opportunity to ask questions of of Luke and also if there's something you think that might not be m something that might be missing on the list or or for an update that's related to what we have on the work plan I think Luke has done a really good job of identifying um a lot of these and I worked with him on this so with that I'll turn it over to um Luke who will go ahead and and give a a brief presentation before you tonight thank you Town manager uh mayor members of council uh just before I begin this the work plan is essentially um really derived from the joint work session of the Town Council and Planning Commission that was held uh I believe last June um yeah June 20th and if you recall uh staff came back September 18th of last year uh with those items that were identified as critical and gave um kind of staff's uh background and update on those items um since Grady joining uh our team we had talked through the this work plan and trying to itemize all of those and put together kind of a priority uh list of where those items stand and uh what the status of them is so this isn't really an exhaustive or um complete representation of everything that staff obviously works on on a day-to-day basis and all the conversations we have about the voluminous amount of projects going on and and conversations we have um but this is really uh going to starting at the top uh something that was identified multiple times is the acquisition of cap Creek rodeo grounds as you're aware th that land is federal land owned in um by bureo of Land Management uh Maricopa County sues or Le leases from BLM uh the piece of the rodeo grounds as well as an additional approximately 200 Acres from BLM and then they subleased to us the 20 uh plus or minus Acres of the rodeo grounds um in conversations with Maricopa County we we decided that marova County would serve as the lead to petition uh BLM to issue a patent for the land at such time um County would dedicate the rodeo grounds over to the town uh unfortunately or fortunately uh county has a lot of experience in dealing with BLM to get a patent issued um and this is something that once again R.J will be able to update you when he's when he's here May 20th presenting to the council um but because of their experience with BLM they're they're taking the lead on this unfortunately it's a a lengthy process that um could take upwards of a year a year plus to have uh consummated with BLM um as you're aware the biggest issue for um County to move forward in obtaining the patent related to restaurant rooms and having uh public facilities out there to host public events that is the mission of BLM in that property specific so that is done uh at least um so County was able to move ahead and file their um application in November uh the next item is the a quick question yes I don't understand uh filing a patent on a piece of land is that standard that is the standard terminology used yes it it would it would be akin to um issuing a deed or yes but they Ed I looked it up all the homestead land in this country was issued by patents it is the highest form of ownership that exists because the Sovereign issues it and so it's straight from the president I guess he someone he like a Spanish land grant I mean it's it's as good as it gets all righty that explains you get what you get very good asked uh the next item is can I just ask a quick question sure um could the mayor get on the agenda for the Maro County Board of Supervisors and take mayor Bunch with them down there and could mayor Bunch after introductions present the importance in the history of this issue before his term was over to try to get a little bit higher priority by the county to work with this is been going on for so long and can we get you on the agenda and can we get him on the agenda as well and go down and do just a brief presentation and I think the history would be of interest to the supervisors it might increase the county staff's attention to the issue I don't know we have such good relationship with RJ yeah well okay I gu it it may be counterproductive if they get angry if if when you go around them no you'd have to go through chain of command but it just seems to me we have an opportunity to have a guy tell a story that I think would lend some historical character to the it's Council if I may what I think I'm understanding Luke is it's not 18 months on the part of the county it's the federal government that that takes the time on this correct and yes and I congressman and I have um offered to leverage that muscle on the town's behalf and and county is at this point um barely confident that working their channels they should get movement but they do have other projects other Park areas that they're looking to have patents issued on that have taken a very long time um I think because the town is is kind of in a a subservient role um as part of our sublease it gives us a little bit more Credence to move ahead of the line but once again staff has offered [Music] um wheelbarrowing down any any tool or form of Leverage that we can to speed this up and and I I would defer to to RJ on this as the the process moving forward but thank you can I ask one question before we move to the next one Luke What did the what did we had to do all the improvements what did the county have to improve on that other 180 Acres you referring to the regional park itself no to the to the two the 200 200 total of patent you said 200 acres and we're going to get 20 of it what did the county do to that other 180 or do we have to do all the work to get there this part of their campgrounds okay all right I knew there had to be something else okay oh uh questions or comments from Council this discussion only so this is uh this is our any questions okay there's public comment on this no request to speak okay so no further business on this thank you Luke actually that was just the first item that was first item on the table there's like three pages I told you but we're okay with that if [Laughter] that's so the the next item is the town core plan update uh and I believe council's been following this uh the Planning Commission held a workshop uh back in May of 2023 um we kind of rounded ideas and suggestions about the the um Town Corps plan moving forward um held a formal kickoff meeting on October 19th um held the first of two public input meetings one October 26 and the next November 16th Planning Commission uh began its review based on that public input um later that evening on November 16th public hearing was held December 21st uh Planning Commission recommended a draft uh what went into that draft was really something that hadn't been done um when we did the 2012 uh Town Corps plan the last draft of the Town Corp plan which is um really including uh utilities director the town engineer um Jim Chief Ford in kind of a comprehensive look at the Town Corps itself and how all of the different things related to infrastructure kind of uh go into the town Corps itself so uh those were some some big changes and and a lot of the additions kind of making the document more robust that the Planning Commission recommended following the planning commission's recommend recommendation we sent out refer referral agency notice um and that deadline has come and gone um for input uh ending March 18th at this point Point um staff is uh looking at when to bring that before the the Town Council uh it's important to note that the adoption of the Town Corps plan is by resolution and it does not require voter approval or ratification then um what the town Corp plan does do uh really what at what's at its core is it identifies areas requiring further study Andor Improvement and those may lead to CIP or budgetary consideration in the future um so stay tuned with that one we've got that scheduled to come back before Council um here in the next couple of months mayor on on that topic too um the mayor and I were just talking today about it's about time to have another uh round table or a business group meeting and I think that this would be perfect to actually bring back one final time before we take it to council for its adoption so this would be one of the agenda items I think along with some of the other topics we have traditionally used with that group so is that sound like something you guys would be up for I'm worried that a lot of people don't even know it exists right now uh how widespread is knowledge of what's in the town I will say our uh public input meetings were actually fairly well attended in in my history in doing these um I did also or staff also um solicited independent uh stakeholder feedback from business owners in the town and property owners in the town Corp um and just had you know conversations you know showed them different um uh sections of it and got and solicited their feedback which all informed the presentation of the Planning Commission and the considerations that they made in their draft recommendations so um as as much as we could we were exhausted we we did a web page um where there's still an open email channel so if anyone's sitting out in the audience and wants to review the the Planning Commission recommended draft you can still send me email and it gets read and part of the public records so gr do you have any suggestions on how to get that information out before we actually vote on it we could actually do a couple different things I mean we could do um really gunshy31 sort of form of public meetings um I think it's very important for the public to to obviously weigh in on this um I know that the staff has done a really good job of trying to reach out but it's just one of those things that people probably don't really get or understand what the significant impact is so I I definitely think that's one way and I also think definitely the business community that are most impacted by it they definitely that's why I suggest when we have that meeting that's more of a smaller group setting um I'm not sure we're going to try to get into the full details but I think what Luke could do is just kind of cover the the main topics that are in it and just kind of give you know in a bulleted fashion and get their input as well I was thinking maybe another five minute video and that way we could kind of show people what it what we have in mind not a bad idea I I think that's a good idea actually so we could certainly do that so the V excuse I could do the voice over oh you're I see you're looking for the opportunity to do that um I'll work with I'll work with L Ben on that I think that's that's a really good idea you know it's it helps people visualize uh what we're what we currently have versus what we have in mind I know a number of cities do that with their General plan process so I think it's a good idea I'm not running for re-election I'll do the voice over for it kill things for sh East Texas the so the next next item on this work plan uh is related to the medians and uh councilman aon's favorite subject and something that's near and dear to me as well um the we've gone out and uh contracted with two local landscape contractors and and Architects about um putting together providing recommendations to enhance the medians uh Council will be presented a report and recommendation at an upcoming meeting uh it sounds like we're um going to be on for June 17th to have that and I I've seen drafts of their report and it's very well done and Council will really have a a good um Bevy to choose from and how to proceed and how to tackle this uh if if enhancing medians is is something we want to consider moving forward um I just will note that uh We've transplanted uh nearly 200 native cacti yucka and succulents to various medians within the town core to date um a lot of those have come off of various job work sites uh the food bank being one of them the a Royo Road um Improvement uh being a large uh contributor um I think we even uh is Sean still on the call no I think we even uh helped ourselves to a few off of the interconnect site without him looking so um anywhere where we can get uh transplantable material that's that's readily available and relocated to those we're doing and as you'll see from the report um it's important to go back and see how our medians were first installed and the process by which they are in their current condition because I think that really more than anything else tells a story about what we need to do moving forward if we decide to do nothing at all it's very important to to note that um I'll move along then Brian if there's if anyone okay uh parking in the town core uh we have been conducting our annual fire inspections with all the commercial businesses and posting occupancies um the engineering you know Hal and and his team have been installing Curbing and Associated Pathways to reduce illegal on street parking during nights and weekends and we've also been working with business Community to provide additional parking areas um I I just put on here the work plan says you know what's your target end date and um you know I think back to Ian and and even before I I don't think parking in the town will ever cease to be you know considered of critical need in the town and that's not a bad thing I think that's really what sets us apart from from neighboring jurisdiction is is kind of the the vibrancy and the demand to come up to Cave Creek and and as someone that's been here um my whole life I think that's really unique and something that um I hope continues um what I will say is something that's not on here but more of a recent development um the Buffalo Chip is set to Begin work on on their parking lot this summer um we've actually been in contact with her with a contractor doing the work which usually means if a contractor's on the bill they're getting ready to do work so that's a promising um development that's going on where would their parking be because they have a relatively small footprint is correct uh so they recently acquired um a little over an acre of land at the base of brener Hill um Along by Lane back there the Town Council reson that several years ago for the express purpose of parking um Buffalo Chip has since uh purchased that acquired that and is going to be expanding their parking area from that area is it relatively easy to get to the Buffalo Chip do they have to go way around the other commercial establishment yes but in all likelihood um likely after the uh fiscal year begins uh there will be a pathway extension that we'll be bringing back to council to to connect that to Cave Creek Road just down that um right away that we have so so I got a I've got a question could when we have the meeting with the uh uh with the businesses could we start talking maybe about a public private partnership for a parking garage I mean at the end of the day if we want to promote our businesses in town we as the Town Council or previous town councils allowed people to expand without enough parking that unfortunately is now on our plate so I think we need to ship some of the cost back to them and let's see if we can do a public private partnership to solve the parking problem so noted yep okay uh the next the next next item uh the Arizona state land Department open space um reported to council just recently the the only update I have for this is that the RFP deadline is I I believe I said next week earlier it's actually the 9th so what is that Thursday so it'll be Thursday so have we gotten responses yet we have I've spoken to um two potential um respondents out about of a a list of eight that went out to directly from asl's list okay thank you so Luke uh likelihood probably will miss the second council meeting but maybe the first one in June for the award of the correct contract yeah and and and my goal with the timing um Town manager mayor members of council was uh because I am leaving um uh family trip to Australia at the end of this month uh my goal was to have everything with the contract and and everything um ready to go and put on an agenda uh in my stad so it should be pretty straightforward based on um what we've done so I like I said it won't be delayed because I'll be out of town uh the next item is the uh Native Plant ordinance and um this was I I recall the conversation about this from the work work session and subsequently September 18th uh council meeting um we're working on on getting more proactive and more selective with what information we put out to the general public it's no secret that uh as property values have increased um there's been a kind of a churn residential churn and a lot of people from other places coming in here and Cave Creek is desirable I don't begrudge anyone for wanting to live here um but a lot of the same uh ethos that the town was kind of founded and rooted in based on our um Native Plant preservation and Salvage requirements uh the the limited amount of disturbance that can be done to a property the 12ft native habitat order all all different cogs in the wheel of of trying to preserve the desert and and really maintain really I mean at the end of the day property values um met with Brenda Olive with um the desert awareness committee um she's she's been very good at at drafting different things over the over time that really promote keeping things natural and Native and and all of those things and hopefully she can help um un robotic size if that's a word uh typically what I churn out in a document that's that's given out to the public and make it a little bit more um userfriendly reader friendly on on what to do and and how to follow the rules and regulations that we have and why they're important really I think that's the other side of the coin is is explaining why those rules are in place and and why they're important in what they do so that's something you know especially from a firewise uh standpoint um uh Chief Ford sent me to the firewise uh school and I became a firewise certified um inspector um so I I know both sides you don't have to save every plant but if you save enough of them you'll be happier so um those are the things that we're working on as far as the native plan ordinance and better communicating it to the public and I have a question about that as as time has gone on have we had an increase in the number of people who are uh Landscaping with non-native plants may members of council I think it's it's really a a combination of factors um I think the number one first and foremost the fires of 2020 are still seared pretty raw in a lot of our our memories and a lot of the messaging that came out of those um two events was defensible space defensible space and you don't hear the the back half of it you know it's you don't need to rent a skid and go around your property and clear everything out that's not really what we're saying so we we saw a lot of that we you know we saw a lot of Mass grading and disturbance Beyond uh what's permitted and then the other is yeah a lot of people from other places that like a certain uh look of certain trees from where they're from and they want to bring that look to the to here and um it just it's unfortunate that a lot of those are on our prohibited uh list so it's really the education and and trying to stay in front of it but as you're as a lot of us are aware is education we can offer it it's really people wanting to to take us up on it so it's we need to get you know I I know there's a lot of important things that go out in our mailers um when we send those out on a quarterly basis or or by annual basis um I'm always trying to plug for more landscaping and lighting information in those but there's you know other information that's important to communicate to the residents as well so it's it's trying to fight for that time Mr Mayor just a couple questions for Luke um actually have a question for Bill but um Luke what I'm going to be asking the attorney is um about what happens if there is not compliance with Native Plant what is the recommended response from the town um first off in cith Creek if you're blading you need the blading per so we have a problem with people e getting blading Rems M and prior to the fire we've had people not mentioning my neighbor of my streets but we've had people who blade pin to pin which under any definition is not permitted um bill just a quick question for you not to put you on the spot but because maybe it has to be research but what would be a responsible community's response for someone who comes in and substantially disregards the native plant protection ordinance which is the setback the 25% undisturbed and so forth and when this Tak place is it too late and we just accept it or are there fines or are is there mitigation to restore not a building permit they they'll never build their building what would be the alternative that and that's vacant that's why that's how you enforce it is that a measured respon then they have to restore it I mean right now your your enforcement mechanism is to deny the building PR and if they wish to have a building permit which I'm assume they do then they've got to restore the native vegetation if I may my experience has been that people this people get a building permit they follow all the regulations staff does an excellent job of making sure they follow the regulations and once they got their building pmit they move in then they make changes and some of those changes would not that's more difficult I agree with that's more difficult yeah what about the time of property transfer uh here in cap Creek before your able to close and there's real estate experts here which I don't pretend to be but before you can close your property if you're un septic you have to be going through the approval process what about at the time of property transfer years ago we used to have Landis aerial surveys fly over and they were looking for illegal building here in the town garages and out buildings and things like that but in an age of satellite imagery and drones and everything else is there no way for the town to get a point in time snapshot of a property and then at the time of property transfer have that as the Baseline performance criteria so that even after someone buys the land and builds a property that what maybe began as 100% vegetation and the setbacks are observed and the constructions observed and so forth I mean I guess what I'm asking is if there's no enforcement and there's no post destruction compliance is what does that mean I mean when people blade pin to pin and I mean where is the failure is the failure with the town that we didn't get a blading permit up front and blading took place anyway or is it Failure to observe the blading once it's been permitted to look for compliance uh was somebody's large acreages is this is not like a little deal this is in one case you know 7 Acres another case 2 and a half acres and it just seems like I don't know I feel like the native plan Protection work done by other people who are no longer here here is orphaned and in dire need of more than just flyers in town hall and I'm not saying there should be uh you know denial a building permeter it just seems like we're losing more um the original desert the varnish and all the other things that the naturalists speak about faster than we can respond to or mitigate and I think the Flyers are great but I just think that from the moment that the Property Transfers we should Cod y what's there and then if there's changes going forward the town still or does the town not have authority I guess we if I if I may I mean having work in other communities um basically this is a code violation and so they get a notice of code violation and they're they're told what they need to do to remedy it and they're given so much time to do it and if they choose to ignore us then we can basically take this to our municipal court and go through that process now I don't know I don't know what's here but I'm saying where I've worked before that's how that would be handled we had very similar we had a hillside protection easement we also had the the vegetation had to be protected the native vegetation we actually had somebody realign one of our um Trails because they thought it was getting too close to their their home and they destroyed all the vegetation and then replanted their vegetation where the trail previously was and we ended up they ended up having to pay a fortune to get it because they spent on a a lot of money on a professional landscaper to do what they did and they settled with us but they had to restore everything back the way it was and realign the trail so there are hammers that we have tools that we can use but you have to kind of go through the due process and it's you know you do the notice of violation and you start off there now the question is the intelligence and surveillance and how is that going to happen and it's mostly you know by neighbors reporting this to us we we don't have the ability or we don't have the Staffing to go and try to be proactive and discover this when it happens and that Tom brought up a really good point this typically happens not so much at the time of construction it's after somebody's people have moved in or the house has moved or I'm sorry the the residents have moved out and it's new people coming in and they just assume that they can just blade and clear the whole area not realizing that they're in violation of our ordinances so I I hope I I answered and I'm sorry you were trying to dump in and I apologize for cutting you off that's okay what what what what grd just mentioned you've had this discussion before is how do you wish to enforce your code is it complain complaint-based or surveillance and historically I think you've been buy and large complaint base I think you started down a good path if indeed the property hasn't doesn't have a building permit you deny the building permit Tom Tom then pointed out well what happens after they get the building permit it then I think you could deny a CFO now now now they're in and they they take out their vegetation you're asking for a sort of an overarching look at your town I think where Grady is going is probably the better you site you site them continually and they go to magistrate court that would be the simpler approach so the first is no no building permit second no CFO third would be would have to be complaint-based and then you you would because you're not going to have Adam going inventorying all the cactus sure and so um but but if someone says I've seen I've seen code violations here code enforcement officer can go and and site him to magistrate court that would be the that would be the best approach the most effective and cheapest approach if I can just ask one last wrapup question when we issue a blading permit what's realistic with the resources we have to ensure compl uh compliance or I mean you know for example when somebody's getting a building permit they have to do a too map and there was a time we had to identify existing dated vegetation and we used to measure the drip canopy and a calber I mean I maybe that's all not around anymore but it was pretty severe before you could build your house the tobo we always saw was kind of odd but but we went from that to like now it just seems incomprehensible blading pin to pin Luke did you want to respond to that sure um council member Aon we do not issue a grading permit um the all the permits that we the the town issues are related to construction or development um very rarely does someone um come in and obtain or ask for a permit to you know clear out you know any any manner of of their property um fences walls all of those typ of things there's typically grading associated with that and that's what we're looking for we're asking them to identify their property Corners so that we can verify they're not going on a neighbor's property with grading um that they they rope off the limits of disturbance any and disturbance is defined as anywhere where natural grade is going to be altered or native vegetation is going to be removed uh we go out and at that point do an inspection of in residential zones the native cactus because native cactus are are protected ever trees are not uh in residential zones um so those are all tagged and marked and and if they're going to do a salvage area they've got to show us where that's going to be and all those things and that's those are commonly associated with um I'd say the big ones which are new homes uh Barnes Mar motels Arenas um detached garage RV garage those are typically the the ones that we're doing really an exhaustive from you know Cradle to grave of that permit having eyes out there um but to but to Tom's point it's it's you know we final the permit they moved in they're using their improvements um in six months they decided put it on the market and sell it and someone else comes in and says well geeez why is there a swath of desert between my house and my RV garage I don't want that there and they remove it we're we're not aware of it unless we're we're being told that it's happening or we're doing an inspection and we're in the neighborhood and we see it um and that's really the the nature of a blading pyramid to proactively like if somebody wanted to Blade is it the construction that kicks in the process but blading does not well our ordinance prohibits Mass grading so to your question council member it's part of the building permit right the braing is done as part of oh okay so no separate permit for blading I thought we used to have that we don't have it most cities do have I wouldn't call it you know blading but I'd call a grading permit and most cities other cities and towns have that but it's not to say what we're doing is wrong it's just that that's very common elsewhere luk would there be any benefit to having a permit prior to the disturbance of a lot prior to activity or is that redundant bureaucracy that is burdensome the your second one really okay yes okay right because now we're we're allowing um a property owner say it's 20 acres to come in and grade and Grub 20 acres and then the housing market changes their desires to construct change and they sell it and and move on and we're staring at a 20 acre swath of land that's been um graded on our on our permit um and there's no recourse for revegetation or or any of those manner of things they're they're in the wind at that point so yeah we we like the site disturbance to be associated with an actual development something that's going to be a constructed result it's just an an easier way for I'm sorry I didn't mean tobor this for so much time thank you hey let's this um anything else on the native plant ordinance move on to um the general plan areas 18 and 10 the mixed use areas uh based on the September 18th uh public hearing uh staff was directed to meet with SAR West residents to determine what they want developed on those properties um I believe Carol Perry was mentioned um to call myself and set up a meeting I've actually talked to Carol Perry since um not about this though um so we're at this point just call her I mean you're gonna need to call her okay I mean that's we do have [Music] one that's up to the mayor yeah let's let's get rolling here okay uh the next item absolutely and it it applies to the people that actually own the properties in there as well anybody is is free to make contact with staff and initiate right okay yeah any it's not just it's not just for Carol it's anybody that wants to call staff and talk about areas 10 and areas 18 I'm willing to just talk with my suggestion is reach out to them because most of them aren't going to reach out to you but if you get the names of two or three people I believe that okay gold ammer can give you uh you know some names and phone numbers and just reach out to them otherwise we're going to be screwing around with this for another six or nine months the next item is the commercial buffer zoning category renaming the minutes reflected uh that Council wanted the Planning Commission to make a recommendation on renaming it um that hasn't been on a Planning Commission agenda uh since that conversation it is important to note that the Planning Commission had previously recommended it be changed to intermediate commercial back in um that's something that if Council wishes we can um staff can discuss with the Planning Commission at their next meeting so this is one of those areas where I staff would like Direction on how to proceed or just leave it as it is um Let The Sleeping Dog lie as it were I'd like to comment on this one and I'm sure Luke wants to hear this again um so so when we first talked about this one of the comments was there aren't that many properties left that would be affected right and um I I think as you drive up Cave Creek Road now you can see that Redevelopment is starting to happen in in a number of places and um this question about buffering between commercial uses and residential uses is still a question and that's all I really need to say I think you know the rest re you mentioned Redevelopment yes do you have specific examples well you could start with the tumble weed oh okay and end at the tumble weed there sir um yeah I think I'll just leave it at that okay you know Luke actually I think that maybe this could be an issue when the area 10 and Area 18 uh people get together with us and it could be a a logical segue into their discussion because they're the ones who have the most at stake I think on this issue yes and and really I mean the the nice thing I'll just leave it there but the nice thing about the the ability to rezone those remaining eight Parcels that are within Area 18 is the ability to essentially create your your own acceptable uses to where it doesn't necessarily have to fit in the commercial buffer box or The General commercial box or the town core obviously not Town core commercial but those are our three commercial zoning categories so it gives you know the council and the public the opportunity to not be pinned to a name per se but more the underpinnings of what uses would be acceptable and and that land use piece is is also really a big part of it I just want to say here that commercial buffer in my view has been a disaster for the town it's way too broad um and uh I know You' told me it can't be changed because the state lands um but um I don't think renaming solves that problem right so renaming is rather trivial in my view but then yeah the to your point the name can be altered it's the uses that that are associated with that you can't go in and start ripping those out and gutting that that chapter of the of the zoning ordinance because that um would would not bode well for the town and a dimition of value with the state landan department for that land I'll I'll try to be brief and and wrap these up the uh next one annual joint Town Council planning commit meeting um the first was held in June of 2023 as we discussed and um Council and commission had discuss doing this annually uh staff would say can you stop for a moment sorry ran we got two I'm done in two seconds okay I promise um really it's the balls in Council and and Teresa is not here to um argue otherwise but staff thought was February of each year uh if you wanted to do something still this year because we didn't obviously do it in February um we would just let uh the town manager and the town clerk decide when when that would be a good time to schedule the commission and councel to do that uh the last three or four are all really utilities and the subdivision ordinance and I put no action necessary because um they're either prohibited or no consensus was reached to change any uses so Mr Mayor that's all I have on the subdiv private streets I I'm we have that completely opposite what I thought we were going to do I thought we want if a subdivision wants to keep the streets and save us the money why would we not do that that's exactly their their right is they can request that the streets be private and it would be council's discre to allow telling them they're gonna be private rather than them making the choice they can make the choice but how but then are you going to accept HOAs and G communities that's the question well we don't have to put the gates under well they're no they're going to say if we're we're maintaining the road I don't want the public in there don't build it Well then well that so then that's why doesn't work our rules or nothing all right let's let's move on here um Brian wants to go home you want to go Brian thank you Luke thanks presentation of the corly fired emergency medical review we had one public comment D David okay David Phelps is sparing you you Brian I apologize you're keeping you waiting so long you're you're an important fellow I've been through many public meetings and know how hard it is to do your job so no apologies are necessary we had to pull him away from the house earlier to get him here um mayor and Council um good evening we're here to do the uh third quarter report for the fire and EMS um activities here in the town I'm just going to the first thing I want to say is I think the last time I was before you somebody I don't remember who it was had asked me how many calls does the region the automatic Aid run in a year and I had that numbered it's 5627 calls is dispatched either by Phoenix or Mesa so it's very very busy a second only to uh pretty much fire department in New York so that was a a question was asked last time um we're going to go through this fairly quickly so stop me if there's something specific that you want to talk about um Brian turn this to everybody can see it a little better um you have the list of incident types and how many calls you went on in the last quarter um basically um 180 total incidents in the quarter year to day we've gone over 550 we average about 62 incidents per month um engine 147 responses that's from the town of Cave Creek uh station and engine here the company training is underneath that you can see that these guys and gals have been doing quite a lot of training um a lot of that has contributed to the change in Special Operations trainings that they just did and got the the grant for and chief can talk about that um when we get to there here's the uh overview just by chart of the types of calls and this hasn't changed much um about 2third of our or 3/4 of our calls are Medical Emergency Medical Services which is why it's important for our staffing to have the two Medics on the truck um and then the two EMTs that support that and just a comparison for you between the third quarter and then the year to date so they it changes a little bit each quarter but it stays pretty consistent that the Far and Away our most um often type of request is for medical services Emergency Medical Services um I'm just looking at it antidot our number one call for medical services is Falls so that might be something we have to look at down the road a little bit maybe there's some Outreach that we can do to the community to assist with falling but we have a lot of Falls in this town so just as an antidote um here's the kind of the the big items for the third quarter um by month U January again we got the fire station going we moved the cruise into the temporary facility I don't think we looked at the temporar facility when when we did the tour um but if you want to go take a look at that and I'm sure the crews over there will allow you to tour through it if you like um we turned the station site over with an understanding that they'll get on it and get that facility moving and they are in my opinion doing a fantastic job there the truss has went up today with the exception of the last two so the truss has went on the Big Bay today um in February uh Carrie retired and we welcome Grady Miller and he's been really nice to me since I got here since he got here I appreciate that I can be I've been known to be a burr under the S all the time so I appreciate that um we uh participated in the chief off executive training we're still part of the whole region and the state stuff that happens the state of the uh Town presentation which I thought went very well on March again we did our second or our first Community brush collection day we did the second one in April some of this will run over a little bit the rodeo par we thought was a great event U Rancho minano firewise Community which we talked about a little earlier was officially submitted in March and and approved by both the state and the national folks um bike week was very busy and we thought that that went well especially with the coordination between us and the Marshall and the sheriffs and the Daisy Mountain folks that are on typ and then uh um it's a busy special event season and so we're we are um doing I I know a couple meetings people have said we want to be be active up here and we are active up here we look at a lot of special events um even though they're contained and then Chief I wanted you to talk real quickly about April 5th you uh put in in position Squad 1 141 I know it's outside of the first quarter but that's a technical rescue and then the open house if you want to touch base real quick yeah thank you uh Jim and mayor members of the Council on April fth 5th we were finally able to put in service a fully equipped dual uh capable special heavy Rescue Unit that station that unit is uh house currently at New River ro road and circle Mountain our station 141 that uh unit now has hazardous materials trained personnel and Technical rescue trained Personnel on one unit in our system it's called a squad it's a Statewide resource that responds to uh incidents around the state if necessary it's funded by federal tax dollars that come in through the through the uh State and we sent 12 of our firefighters that were already hazardous materials trained to the technical Rescue Training that unit will be the is is the closest technical Rescue Unit to the spur cross area here in the town of Cave Creek so when we do have Mountain rescues or technical rescues here in the town of Cave Creek the unit from Daisy Mountain at Circle mountain and 7 Street would be the first arriving technical Rescue Unit so we're pretty proud of the fact that we were able to uh fully complement that unit and train our our 12 members up to a much higher level it took uh there was eight weeks worth of additional training that they went through including helicopter operations water rescue heavy rescue collapse rescue variety of different things that brought them up to this level so we're pretty proud of that that happened if you recall on the heels of Phoenix moving their technical Rescue Unit that used to be at the fire station on Cave Creek Road South of Carefree Highway they moved that unit further into the core of Phoenix so that unit used to be your first arriving technical Rescue Unit in the town so when that when that void occurred we tried to fill it as quickly as we could with this unit of course we have lots of help from our partners in in Scottsdale as well that have technical rescue support but we were pretty proud to get that uh in service on April 5th and it was just recently ironically uh dispatch to the town of Wickenberg where they spent about 12 hours offloading an LPG tank that was underground and leaking so we we are a uh systemwide and outside the automatic Aid System responding resource because the state gives us through federal dollars the money to invest in these things so that we can help our communities with their tax dollars and then on uh on April 8th um we conducted in our jurisdiction a openhouse community uh meeting for the members that for the residents that live in East Desert Hills and West Cave Creek so that they could see what our plans were for building Fire Station 144 which is will be on the corner of 24th Street in Cloud 2402 East cloud it was a very well attended meeting um some of you attended that including the town manager and Jim and I know councilman Bunch was there um we uh let them know what the plan was we've had a sign up on the lot for about a year and a half came down for a short amount of time after it was tagged by Vandal we put it back up again announced the meeting and we're pretty proud of the fact that we are are moving forward with a 4 Bay uh 12 bedroom fire station at 24th Street in Cloud starting in construction about November of this year uh we're hoping that that would be completed by November of next year fully staffed and uh ready to run calls uh next fiscal year um as as you are pretty well aware I I put this up there just for a quick discussion this was the incident um in the town of Cave Creek on Saturday um it came out at 2:15 it was a brush alarm first alarm and that was or brush fire first alarm which meant that there was structures um in threatened being threatened or they had five structures that were threatened um on your screen you can see the units that went and e stands for an engine company a four-person engine company brush is a brush truck a t t is a tanker um a BC is a battalion chief a ladder is L Northeast Deputy is NC utility that all was dispatched initially on this call because it came out as an urban interface Wildland incident that was the second brush fire that we were dispatch to that day the very first one um happened in the morning and I wrote down the time I don't know what it was I think it was about 9ine or 10 o'clock it was a Carefree Highway in Cave Creek Road on the northeast corner U our units responded controlled the fire turned it over to Ral Metro since that's in town of Carey it's not in town of Cave Creek but we did stop the the spread and and back off they went back there yesterday morning again for same area for another fire this time Royal Metro was on the scene handling it so our crews didn't assist and in between uh the first fire and this second fire that I put up here tonight um we did a a mountain resc or Trail rescue um the the sheriff's flew out two people in a dog that had gotten too far out and could not make it back and so they flew him out to the helicopter pad where the crews evaluated them and then sent them home so a very busy Saturday for our our crews up here yes those people did they call in on a phone how did you find out about the emergency boy I you know I don't know CU it initial calls all if even if it is a phone it goes to to the sheriff's department and so then the sheriff's department notifies us and then SS our helicopters they like to make the rescues with their helicopters first out there question Jim there was a comment made earlier tonight that um there isn't an ordinance that affects people who start these fires you know unintentionally obviously but do we have one does anything exist the the way that the current ordinance is and we can talk about this I can bring it back first study session to Mayor and councel is if it's determined to be a stage one fire risk then you're required to get a permit and you're required to let the town know that you're doing hot work and things like that we um last week and we were not in a stage one situation yet there's no restrictions at all with the forest we talked to the forest we talked to the other jurisdictions we had internally had had discussions and in fact we had decided that uh today we were going to bring up additional responses and we're going to have the discussions about bringing our staffing up at con Cave Creek typically that uh Staffing for the brush truck occurs around Memorial Day Weekend the labor um or the holiday but we had already talked and we're bringing up the resources ahead of that so we have to determine internally um if it's a stage one or stage two fire risk the reason it hasn't been called yet is because our temperatures have been less than they had like last year and yeah we did have some winds over the weekend but we also had rain here about two weeks ago so the the weather itself all that plays into it and we had not made that call yet if we make that call then that's a a different then we have an opportunity to follow up with it and possibly um issue a citation or or issue a warning on that you do have an ordinance it's only as Jim points out it's only implicated if you have the stage one and stage two which is determined by your staff you don't necessarily have to rise arise only out of a permit if indeed someone commits the act and that someone admits to it they one be subject to to to a $500 penalty through the magistrate court but most importantly they they can be cited for expenses and so you do have an ordinance but it's only implicated during the stage one and stage two that stage one and stage two is determined I think by your building official it's it's by our building Fire official who right now is uh Luke is a temporary one so I'm helping him out with that so um but we again we look at the region and um the only thing that's happened in the region so far is Phoenix with their Trails have said if it's over 100 degrees you can't take your dogs on it but that's as far as it's gotten the tunnel or nobody else has determined where the high fire risk at well maybe that'll change because I think the with the kind of brush loading we have why don't we just set it from April 15 to whenever now I'm not sure we have to staff for all that but we do need to know when people are out there starting fires we we have absolutely got to get the degree of negligence stop with um what's the word onative damages yeah but we got to get some get somebody's attention here and if U we have a failure here um of the system that we had a big fire in a high wind position that right in the middle of town that could have gotten structures could have gotten people and our our procedures did not work we did not have the the permitting system in effect right so I guess my uh we hope would be hope let's get this fixed so that we have the system ready to go and we have the the emergencies mayor and Council and town manager right um we can set that date whatever we instead of um um what is it Memorial Day that's coming up or labor Memorial Day it doesn't have to be Memorial we could set that for um May 1st if we want we could set it for April 15th if we want and say as of this date you will have a a high risk yeah resp stage one response it's not a response issue it is a prevention issue right and and all of our big fires up in that area have been before uh Memorial Day yep so I'm I'm you know it needs to be before Fire season so we can may we can work with the manager to do that as you as you recall that was you and and me and backley that came up with the one that we've got and I wonder remember I don't remember a date in there yeah yeah yeah it it was uh you we are you saying I'm responsible for there no no no no no I'm saying I'm saying that we came up with this ordinance we came up with this ordinance that that is the stage one stage two and and and that stuff it was we worked on that like I said it's a system issue yeah but but I think I think the variable here is you could have a very dry you could have a wet December and a very dry spring and I think your your key here is is the moisture levels and the fine fuels and perhaps we find a way to actually trigger that thing based on those factors because those are the ones that could be variable you could have a February we um two years ago we had a we had a brush fire up in the mountains in January we had two of them that were started by Recreation recreational Shooters and uh you know that's typically would you know I mean nobody was ready for that that could happen here in town as well based on uh on how much you know the the the climatology might be the word when it happened but if you tie that to the to the moisture level and the fine fuels I think you've got something that's actually proactive and and actually accurate for no matter what year what what year it is yeah my only problem is that didn't work this time well we haven't we haven't triggered it yet it's not our ordinance I'm say we change we Chang the ordinance to to to trigger the ordinance by those fine fuel measurements okay well let's take a look at it and see absolutely we had a discussion right after you and I did and and we'll go ahead and bring something back for your consideration and and know you know it's I think uh council member bunch is bringing up a good point I mean it it doesn't necessarily have to be a hard fast date it might be either an either or that actually there might be some other variable factors that can also be part of it so it could start sooner if necessary so would it be necessary to tell to people this is when it started those signs we got those those light up signs in town yeah right I have one last question is that right sorry Chief toin yes ma'am how's the budget on the second fire station oh Council so interesting that you asked that question so um we are currently um finalizing our operational budget Daisy Mountain is for next fiscal year the the station opens the year after um so we will begin uh the the operational budget for 25 26 this time next year for the operational component of that fire station our board is fully aware that prior to that period of time they will have to give us Direction on how they will finance the construction of the fire station which is approximately $8 million uh so they're look we're looking at all different types of finance options for that because those will kick in next fiscal year as well so there's options they're not good ones construction costs as you know as you're building a fire station here in your own town are incredibly uh high at this point but we have to build a fire station to serve the Community that's just what we have to do so like you my board has got uh a lot of pressure policy pressure to keep you know revenue and funding at sustainable levels for the for the community but they also have to U prioritize their Public Safety uh in those areas so uh that's coming um they're they're not surprised I mean we' brought them along they were at the meeting the community meeting and listen to the public talk about how supportive they were of the fire station so there will come a point where you're going to have to fish your cut bait yeah right on it or not you know or all the other options that you have with your delay and other types of things that are potentially there as well I'd like to be kept apprised of the budget as you go along sure you know I don't know how often you have you're with us for these presentations but it's important for this community sure we'll be more than happy to do that we'll get through this operational budget for for this fiscal year and then we'll start moving into this that's our next highest priority obviously is building a fire station and then figuring out how to staff it in July of the next year very good thanks and just to to be clear again uh mayor and vice mayor and counsel the agreement that we have with Daisy Mountain is the capital portion of that is that's what he's talking about is how they do their funding for that our commitment as a town is to pay for half of the operating cost of that station so that's why not just next year but the year after we can look and it's in the fiveyear plan that we've done is one at least one and a half times the cost of the operating budget versus the capital and I know that's been confused in the past but know but that's why I'm concerned because we have a significant investment yeah us too the same equal investment actually right Y and then I I just put up the last slide this was actually in the presentation before I stuck in the ones about the Wildland fire we'd already been addressing it as we were talking about by looking at this in defensible space um the hydron as was mentioned up on spur crossed by the helicopter pad is going to help us quite a bit on May 1st Daisy Mountain hosted a tabletop exercise from the region with us in Maricopa County and Daisy Mountain to talk about just exactly what happened Saturday how we were going to operate if we had a big fire in a residential neighborhood um so we did some additional practice and training on that uh the protocols were scheduled to go into effect on the the 13th now they've gone into effect today and additional high-risk Staffing um we're bringing that up also instead of waiting until we'd already decided to come to the 13th so we'll be bringing that up and that might be a little bit flexible based on the risk of the day if it's a a Red Flag Day obviously we'll have that if it's a rainy day or rain scheduled we might not staff that truck but um we we'll play that by year because that wasn't scheduled to start until Memorial Day I think what you're finding until the mayor's point when you start your restrictions your fire restrictions is is one thing when you start preparing your Staffing for operational response is another thing but I can tell you that on the second one which is what I do there's there's a lot of guessing there's some science there's there's moisture in the air there's the there's all these things that these experts are going to NE tell you about that can tell you when things are going to burn quicker than one the others than they don't but then you look at the last two weeks and you see it's here a lot sooner than any of us expected it would be in in Arizona and in the Phoenix Metro Area specifically so then you expect people like me and Jim and Grady to to make the changes that we need to to make sure that your town is safe you know from an operational response perspective we've done that we've moved up these dates we saw the handwriting on the wall we had a very busy weekend we had a very busy day and we can always ratchet that back depending on how things change so that's what you expect us to do and that's what we're doing so yeah I want to be clear though I think the response was wonderful I completely understand it was yeah Daisy Mountain hasn't gone to level one restrictions either Nei as the county neither it's the prevention and the the silly negligent people that are starting these fires that's where the target has to be unfortunately many of those are done by these scientists I don't mean you know people that know about the ambient air they know about the climate conditions they know about the growth and they try and make these projections for when they think that's going to occur and it's not perfect and as you see last weekend it wasn't perfect right and and two years ago in in May in May it was also a difficult time too so we can we can adjust Jim uh on the second bullet point yes I'm not sure that that location makes sense to me the we put the hydrant on the end of Sean's waterline that runs up spur cross it's actually not at the helicopter pad it's not on Schoolhouse oh I'm sorry that's mistake on my part right so SPC cross SPC cross I'm sorry I was thinking about the schoolhouse fire when I Chang that so that's spur cross I'm sorry it's at the the Top If you're going up there it's at the top of the hill you'll see the new hydr on the left side and that that actually helped the water department out also because he has to flush that every once in a while because that's a long dead end Main and so um but that's going to help both of us well thank you very much I think the response saved a bunch of houses there at school house I was up on M well and and again what you saw the response um I'll get an advertisement you saw the Scottsdale Fire Department here you saw the Phoenix fire department here you saw Daisy Mountain on your firet truck here and Daisy Mountain not your units here and that was seamless we operate as if we were one fire department and you saw the benefits of the automatic Aid System on Saturday Absol when you saw all of that happen and it it started we put it out and then you just time you just move on off they stayed overnight to make sure that there wasn't any others and the one we had today you had Scottdale Daisy Mountain Phoenix all at the house far we had just before council meeting same thing same thing Brian that's why we BR you on yeah yeah yeah right thank you thank you all the other resents thank thank you to your residents because you did it was it was a lot of heavy lifting but you did it you guys are wonderful to have y'all in town thank you there being no further business meeting adjourn so move