Scottsdale Planning Commission approves 67-unit Finish Line Auto Club despite sales loophole concerns

get started. Welcome to the Scottsdale Planning Commission public hearing. The city appreciates your interest in a participation in the public hearing process. The planning commission serves as an advisory board to the city council on land use and zoning matters. The hearing agenda items consists of development applications that require public hearings. The planning commission considers the item and makes a recommendation for approval or denial to the city council.

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Now we will begin the hearing with the roll call. Chair Scar Bro here. Vice Chair Young here. Commissioner Gonzalez present. Commissioner here. Commissioner Joiner here. Commissioner Drake here. Commissioner Reid here. All here. Thank you. Okay. Uh so as everybody can tell uh Chair Scarro is going to be joining us through the telephone and the same with uh Commissioner Ortell. Um I guess we're on to public comment. Is there any agendaized items for that? I don't believe so. No. Okay.

Uh we'll move on to the administrative report. Mr. Curtis. Thank you, Vice Chair, members of the commission. Just wanted to let you know our normal regular schedule meeting per our calendar uh next time will be November 12th. However, some um items that we're anticipating um to be heard on November 12th had requested to be moved to December 10th. So, it looks like we'll have more of a full meeting in December and uh cancelling the meeting for November 12th.

So, just wanted to give you an update on that. Um that's all I have tonight. Thank you. No, there won't be any meeting in November. That's correct. No meeting in November. Okay. All right. Uh we'll we'll move on to the uh approval of the October 8th uh meeting minutes. Do I have a motion? Second. Oh, okay. We've got a motion and a second. Uh could I get a roll call vote, please? Chair Scar Bro? Yes, Vice Chair Young. Yes, Commissioner Gonzalez. Yes, Commissioner Ertel. Yes, Commissioner Joiner.

Yes, Commissioner Drake. Yes, Commissioner Reid. Yes. Motion passes. Thank you. Okay. Uh, we're going to move on. Well, we've got only one case tonight. Uh, and I understand Commissioner Gonzalez, you'd like to move that to regular agenda? Yes. Yes, please. Okay. So, I guess we'll move on with case 19 ZN 2004 number two on the regular agenda. Thank you, Chair Scar, Vice Chair Young, Commissioners.

I am Casey Stanky with the city of Scottsdale planning department presenting case 19 ZNN 2004 number two the Finish Line Auto Club. You can see the site location here in the Perimeter Center just north of the intersection of Perimeter Drive and Princess Drive just west of the 101 freeway. And here's a picture of the existing site conditions. The site is up until recently formerly occupied by the Fender Guitar headquarters.

It's one multi-story building and the rest of it for the time being is parking. And the existing zoning on the site is plan community district with industrial park I1 as the underlying base district. Although this case is uh a zoning district map amendment, we are not actually attempting to change the zoning of it per se. We are simply trying to amend the previously approved development plan for it.

and the uh general plan designates this site as an employment light industrial office land use category. So the request for today is a recommendation to council uh for a zoning district map amendment to amend the previously approved development plan including amended development standards specifically floor area ratio in this case on a roughly 11 12 acre parcel at 17600 North Perimeter Drive with I1 PCD zoning. So what does kind of that mean in in simpler terms?

Well, we're really just trying to amend the site plan, the layout, change it from one building to multiple generally lower scale buildings. And as part of that, the applicants are essentially trying to revert to from a more convoluted set of previous development standards, which were amended at the time, to a more typical I1 ordinance. Uh the caveat to that is they're actually keeping a more restrictive floor area ratio than the I1 would currently allow.

Back in 2004, the ordinance allowed a 6 floor area ratio as the cap. Now it's a little more lenient at 0.8, but among other reasons to avoid consternation and keep things simple and consistent, they've agreed to keep it at the more restrictive 6. Here's a look at a table at some of the pertinent development information. We talked about how they're going from an office building to uh kind of higherend auto storage. The east and I'll show you a site plan in a minute.

Uh the east side of the of the lot is is primarily these parking garages with some higher um higher level office and lounge space for the people that own the cars. And the west side of the parcel as it exists now, though it is potentially going to be split, is a more speculative industrial space. Uh the zoning for this would cover about 11 and a half gross acres and the the height of this is for all intents and purposes not changing that much.

Previously it was uh 58 ft including rooftop screening. Now it's the ordinance is 52 excluding that. It's about a wash at the end of the day and I think the currently proposed elevations which are not technically part of this are even a little lower than that. And then parking as it's current in the current iteration is requiring 124 spaces. They're proposing 174 and they're also exceeding in the in the minimum required open space. Here is a look at that site plan.

Uh the eastern side of it you see the four buildings kind of looks like five but it's really four. The central one has I think three stories to it and there's some additional space for the users. But the primary primary concept of this is one story auto storage and that you kind of see on the east side in those lower long rectangular boxes and then on the west side is about 50,000 square feet of industrial office space. Circulation pretty standard for these kinds of uses.

On the west, I'm not 100% sure what it's going to end up being, but I imagine there's going to be some potential bays in the back for trucks. Typical circulation there. And on the east, most of the people, I imagine, going around the site are going to be the owners and their cars going to those actual bays. So, nothing unusual here. The street connections are going to remain pretty much the same.

In fact, they're probably going to improve a little bit in terms of aligning with some of the existing uh streets in the area. I'm going to go through I'm going to skip the elevation since they're not technically part of this. Um, so again to recap, we're looking for a recommendation to council regarding this Sony district map amendment to amend the previous the previously approved development plan, including amended development standards on this I1 PCD site.

And that's it for staff presentation. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, do we have any questions for staff right now? Yes, Commissioner Gonzalez. Um, so the exact count on the uh auto storage facilities is how many units? Uh, Chair Scar Bro, Commissioner Gonzalez, I'm not sure off the top of my head. I have to check in here, but the applicant is probably has that at the ready. Okay, we can we can ask them for that.

And then, uh, the building the large build the larger building that is part of this piece here is what is that utilization? So, is there some auto I think there might be some storage in there, but above that there's there's a number of niche I suppose uses in there. I'm not sure it's fully fleshed out. The applicant again could probably speak to it.

There's office lounge areas to hang out for the owners, but it's just what we would call an kind of ancillary component to the main use of auto storage. Okay. Is the is this going to be as a membership type of um product as part of the maybe let the applica applicant make a make his speech and and we'll hear more about what he's planning on. Thank you. Thanks, Commissioner Gonzalez. Chairman, uh, members of planning commission, Kurt Jones with Tiffany Embosco.

We're at 2525 East Camelback Road in Phoenix, uh, 85016. Uh, here tonight with Tony Princby, he's the managing member for the Finish Line Auto Club, and Josh Rogers, who's with LG, who's going to be designing the site for uh, this proposal. Uh to answer those questions, there's about 68 uh 67 or 68 um garages where they'd be ownership garages. Uh so this will be a condoed uh garage setup.

Um and if you'd like um Commissioner Gonzalez, could you ask your other questions so I can answer them appropriately? Yes. The on the larger building where the clubhouse is and everything, is there going to be staging areas or cars in that area also? uh chairman and and commissioner Gonzalez, if you look at the site plan that's on your screen, um you have basically this orange, which is a three-level uh office, mezzanine, clubhouse, smallest part of the proposal.

This yellow is actually an enclosed area that's um not exposed to the elements. Uh, and I believe probably these are probably the nicer garages in here where you would pull your cars in and if you had this unit here. Um, you'd be underneath this enclosure and at this uh enclosure does close at the end also. So that if that's your question then that's what that yellow is in the site plan. I'm speaking to the building to the left, the larger building.

This one um I'm sorry I don't see your point over here. The one on on Yeah. So, this this building here, um, again, I think u Casey had mentioned that we're going to split the property. Oops, let me go back. We're going to split the property uh along this uh line here. If you can follow my cursor, uh this will be a separate building. Uh there are existing car storage uses in the Scottsdale Air Park that use a lack of a better description, a warehouse.

Um, so this will be most likely used by Finish Line for a more of a warehouse uh car storage use. That's the plan right now. It is a a speculative uh 50,000ish square foot uh industrial building, but the plans are to use that um for single users. Okay. And so as as far as that and there's going to be a clubhouse and things like that, um is is the do we have even a a a vague number of how many cars can be stored in there or any kind of an idea what how what how the capacity is going to be used?

It it's obviously going to be based off of market demand. Um as to the numbers Yeah. Yeah. We don't we we don't we haven't even submitted for DR on this case. We don't know if the building stays the same size, if it if it gets um smaller. It just depends on on what the market's going to bear for that building and and whether they use it for the the car storage. There's not not we're not at that level yet. the and I think Casey mentioned this.

We're at a we're at a level right now in zoning where we're proposing allowed uses and then the allowed zoning and we're trying to bring the standards back to the regular zoning standards. Um and that's really the the the crux of what we're proposing uh at this point. Okay. Is is there going to be any kind of a dealership associated with this or is there going to be any auto sales associated with this or any kind of a uh private sales associated with this with this this project?

Chairman and and Commissioner Gonzalez, the vehicle sales use is not allowed on this property. retail sales vehicle dealerships not allowed as part of the I1 zoning. Yes. Um then if if that if that's the case, but is there any restrictions or anything for private for private parties who have separate storage areas or cars in the major storage area? Is there any restrictions, deed restrictions, any kind of stipulations or anything to limit u uh outside sales?

Are you asking me if we're we're putting a deed restriction on the property? No, I'm asking you if there's going to be any sales whether through dealership or private sales or anything to that effect happening on this property. Mr. Chairman and and and Commissioner Gonzalez, I think I answered that question. We're not that use is not allowed at this property. Yes. Well, unfortunately, possibly what's happened in the past in other instances where what because the zoning goes with the land.

What what is happening nowadays that there's been several instances where different parties have utili have gotten approval on the applications from this board and later on at in the past and then they've actually kind of taken a market advantage or whatever and have actually proceeded to do some sort of let's say party system bringing in outside vendors outside type of situation ations uh during and around auction times and other sales times and have utilized these u these type of projects especially we have not done any projects this size before as far as these type of stoages and it it they tend to tend to gyate through this new type of marketing online system of sales and operation.

And what happens is this this kind of starts eating into our other merchants and dealers in this p type of situation. I'm what I'm trying to do is get to the point of we're saying is we'd like to see that no sales are being uh occurred on this property so that it does not eat away our other established dealers in the general area especially because of the proximity to Westworld and the time periods of when they have certain auctions, car shows, things of that nature.

They're taking usage of this time period to actually uh advertise and create car shows that they didn't necessarily specify at the time of the application. And they're making this as a usage for their for the u the occupants of the the usage of the property and then they're creating some sort of a sales benefit to the ownership. I guess that's probably what I'm trying to say.

Uh, chairman and comm and commissioner Gonzalez, like I said, the the land uses, if you can see the the development plan proposed in front of you is showing basically a row of surface parking for the users. Um, it's gated around the community uh for those buildings that are in blue on the site plan. uh there the larger building on the west side uh does not have a it's just parking that are required for the land use. So there's no space to store store cars and sell cars.

It's just space to store cars as the land uses are allowed. If I could have the Elmo um I put I've got the allowed land uses up there in the I1 district and it's it's clear that um that the I1 uses I don't know if you can zoom in on that maybe a little but you have the uh the I1 column here and this is the uh vehicle leasing sales indoor display vehicle leasing sales um outdoor display. They're not there's they're not allowed uses. So, I'm not sure what else you can do.

Um, again, we're asking for a development plan amendment for an allowed use and that's car storage. I understand that and I appreciate you uh pointing that out, sir. The unfortunate part is I guess maybe what uh I'm saying is as a protection to these ongoing type of venues that are occurring. Do you have any problems putting in a a deed restriction or some sort of stipulation saying that you're not going to do on-site sales? If I could uh jump in here.

So, a deed restriction on on private property affects the use and marketability of that property. It's not really something that uh the city could require as a stipulation. They the property owner has a right to use its property in accordance with rules and regulations and common law rights. uh how it operates on the property is governed by the zoning ordinance. And if and if there's some sort of activity on that property that is in violation of the code, uh then that's a code enforcement issue.

So if you're concerned that there may be some activity on that property that is in violation of the code, then then that can be reported to code enforcement and they can take a look at it. But there's no authority for the city to require a private property owner to place a deed restriction on their property and it can't be a stipulation. So there are mechanisms in place that if the property is not being used appropriately for the for there to be an enforcement mechanism.

I I guess maybe and I understand that sir and thank you for your clarification. I appreciate that. But really my my question is is would they be willing to do a stipulation or a deed restriction to guarantee that this usage would not be happening through management or some other sit situation. Not I'm not asking the city to ask for this.

I'm asking for them to ver to ask um to proceed on this and to assure us that this will not go into effect as far as any kind of sales because what's happened in the past and it's just I don't have a problem with sales and stuff like that but the problem I have is that the some of these ongoing endeavors that are happening in these type of uh garages and stuff like this is that this type of thing is going forward and the city is not collecting revenue whether it's zoned for it or not whether they're in particular compliance or not we're still it's things are still happening and u and I would you know maybe what I should say is that it's to my knowledge but I understand it's not to your knowledge and it may not be common knowledge.

I would basically ask for it, you know, if we couldn't get a get something from the uh ownership to that point. I would I would like to delve more into the situation and see if we can continue this so that we could have time to really review the impact of this because this is a very large facility and it's and it's not it's it's going to be very impactful to the city if something else happens onto the property other than what what we what we anticipate in the future.

So I'm that's all I'm asking for is a continuence to review this make sure that you know what I'm saying and what you know I'm asking everybody else is just some sort of time to really analyze the situation so that we can you know move forward. I want to move forward. There's no doubt I don't want to hold anybody up on everything. I understand the need for progress through the through the development stage, but the problem is is that how it impacts the city is my main concern.

Um ju just a point of clarification. So the zoning category that this is in already does not allow auto sales. Correct, vice chairman, members of the commission, that is correct. Okay. So, the discussion about putting a deed restriction on the property that already uh restricts that use, I'm I guess I'm I'm not quite sure. I I guess I'm just looking for a point of clarification from Commissioner Gonzalez as to how it's different than the teeth that the zoning ordinance already has.

I guess the main difference is is what happens is and it's not part of management and it's not part of ownership but what's happening in the what's happening now to my knowledge and this is only to my knowledge right right now is that there are there are dealers who are warehousing cars in these type of collective garages and they're utilizing this storage area as inventory and therefore they're creating this inventory here, a false inventory and they're using their dealers's license which is a required and outside the the location in C4 or you know other type of correct zoning for dealerships and they're using the the storage area as kind of like a warehouse showcase to have inventory into the collection.

ctions and this is something that is happening throughout u Scottdale because we've we've passed these type of u garages before and we have these applications coming right now. There's about three of them coming in forward right now and some of them have been guilty in prior cases. Some these are franchises and they have actually started using on-site auction companies and putting these on-site auction companies into the the into these garages and they're acting as dealers.

Although by some way of getting around things, they're not saying, "Well, we're we're we're a dealer in another location. We're just warehousing cars. Can you give an example? You're making some statements and I'm curious where this is happening. You're making general statements. I get it. But I understand. I understand your concern and that's why I said this is only to my knowledge. What I'm asking is for a continuence so that we can delve into this.

I may be 100% incorrect, but I'm not really because I do know this business a little bit. And I can tell you that over the years, especially the last four or five years where some of these collections, these private garages that are are storing and warehousing cars. They have actually closed off streets, had sales on these streets on city property and and actually even brought in offsite auction sites from different parts of the country and creating this event.

And I'd be happy to furnish uh the committee with any information that they'd like, but not at this time period. I'm just and the reason why I'm even asking this point is I'm not asking for everybody to change their mind or method. He's already pointed out that there's no this is not zoned for dealerships. I just want a commitment that his his his b his people that are actually renting or buying these properties are not going to go behind their back and start selling these type of vehicles.

So, Mr. Chairman and members of planning commission, this is a a genesis of a phone call we received today of a concern about the same thing. Um, we've stated the fact that the retail vehicle sales, it can't happen on this property per the zoning. It's not what we're asking for. We're asking for car storage. Um, it's an allowed use. Uh, this is a development plan amendment. We're not actually asking for zoning that uh that a zoning case to change from something to to ask for this allowed use.

It's already allowed by right in the in the district. Um we're going to continue to work with those folks. Um they just contacted us today, but uh like I said, this is a car storage use. Um and we're going to comply with all the stipulations that are on there. Okay. Do we have any other qu Sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, just go ahead and you can take public comment or whatever you'd like to do after that. You have you have a question. Go ahead. Yes, Mr. Jones.

Um the one of the findings we need to find is for employment because this site is also an employment zone and one of the findings was that the light industrial part of the property would provide jobs. how many jobs would be created for that storage facility? And I appreciate that you shared that with us if there were just vehicles in that building approximate place. Yeah, sir. If you'd like to speak, please uh state your name and address for the record.

Tony Principy, 951 South Westlake Boulevard, Westlake Village, California 91361. Um, I'm the uh the developer on the project and and maybe just to address two things. We have five different sites in Southern California. We don't sell vehicles out of those sites. We never have we don't have any intention of doing that. These are private individual collectors that buy their spaces and have a facility that they'll customize their garages for their collections.

whether they buy an individual vehicle or sell a vehicle to somebody else in the place or someplace else. We don't get involved with that. That's not our center of business. Um with respect to employment, this particular space has about a 16,000 square foot clubhouse um that will have, you know, everything from coffee service and meeting rooms and lounge areas and things like that.

And we'll have full-time staff that's there from general managers and and um concier and all kinds of different things. So I I would venture to say we could have anywhere from 15 to 20 employees working there at any one time. Then many of the collectors in the 67 garages have collection management um where people will come in and take their cars off to go detail them or wrap them or transport them to racetracks. And some of these are motorsports cars.

We don't allow mechanics and things like that in inside these facilities. We just don't want that going on. Um so they'll come and pick those up. So there's a hustle and bustle that goes on within the facility. Um the collectors are also there like tenants if you will or employees that are coming and visiting the garages on a daily weekly basis. So we're well below traffic, you know, um that typically and and hours of operations that an office building or an industrial park would have.

Um but there's there's always people there and security is very high uh for us. So there's people on site for security and things like that. But to the western side, the light manufacturing part, right? What what would that be? What would that entail in terms of employment? And Mr. Chairman and and Commissioner Drake, I think that again, that side is just a an industrial building at this point. If it's used for car storage, probably a similar amount of employees.

Um, but it's again, all the uses we're requesting are allowed by right. Right now we're the application's for the blue section for both but we haven't come up with a a complete plan on that building yet. So right now it's industrial. Okay. Thank you so much. All right. Um I know Commissioner Joiner wants to speak but she wants to pause that until after public comment. Um are there any other questions from um anybody on the phone? Commissioner Ortell, Commissioner Scar Bro Scarro. Thank you.

I'm good as well. Thank you. All right. Um let's uh let's move on to public comment. We've got two requests uh request cards here and to speak. Uh the first is and forgive me for my eyesight. Jason Fritz. Is that correct? And you've got three minutes. All right. I'm not Do you want me to introduce myself and Yes, please. Give me the protocol and all. Yep. Okay. Jason Fritz. I'm the lead pastor of Illuminate Community Church.

We are the neighbors just to the north and we're really here for one simple reason and that is just to get a better feel for the timing of the development. We have some parking contingencies that we're working on and talking with some of the neighbors that are around us. And so that's really the only reason why we're here just to figure out the timing of it. We want to figure out what kind of runway that we have so that we can best navigate um our parking needs.

We have an agreement uh with the current owner now. Um so yeah, that's it. All right. Well, I think the applicant will be more than willing to talk to you about that today. And we've we've had some of those conversations already, so All right. Great. Um second speaker is Sam Deas. Uh yeah, I guess you could use that. Hello. Is this on? Okay. Hello. My name is Samantha Damas. I'm a land use attorney with Rose Law Group 7144 East Stson. I'm here today on behalf of Barrett Jackson.

We're asking for a continuence. Um the reason we're asking for an continuance is because the neighborhood meeting was back in February and there's been multiple adjacent property owners who have come out in opposition to this. And it's still very vague based on the narrative what exactly is going to happen on this property. There's, you know, it's called a private car club, but there's mentions of events and guests and visitors.

There's mentions of it being a tourism attraction, you know, perfect to be next to retail and hotels, and that's just not really fit in an I1 use, which is supposed to be a quiet industrial use. Um, and so we would really like to see a neighborhood meeting and more stakeholder engagement to flush out what these uses will be before it goes all the way through.

Um, you know, I review these for a living and it took me all the way to the traffic study at the end of the 70page packet to really figure out what uses might be going on on this property. So, um, we would just really like to see a continuence for more stakeholder input and more answers. Um, in the event that you do pass it today, we do ask that you stipulate that no private or public car sales or related activities occur on the property.

Um, and to flesh out that idea, I know there's been some confusion. There is a prior interpretation from a prior planning director in Scottsdale that states a loophole to I1 no car sales if the sales occur online. But the issue is that is a lot of times the listing will be online and the sale might occur online but all the other affiliated activities of visiting the car, showing the car, all those sorts of things will still occur on the property.

And so that's the reason to ask that no for a stipulation of no um public or private car sales or affiliated um uses. So we would prefer a continuance just because it you know the narrative is very vague as to what's going to happen here. We want to make sure it's not a quasi showroom or um a quasi dealership or you know any sort of event center anything like that. Um but in the event you do pass it through that is the reason we're asking for a stipulation for no private or public car sales.

because of that prior um online loophole in I1. So, thank you for your time. All right. Thank you. Uh Mr. Jones, would you like to respond to either or both of those public comments? Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of planning commission. Um as to the church, I think the best case scenario on on a development schedule for this project is end of next year to probably be moving dirt. So between now and then, there's probably some some runway on utilizing parking on on the site.

Um, and we'll continue to work with them throughout that that year until something happens development wise in the property. So uh on that with regards to the uh second speaker, uh again, I think I've stated numerous times that uh there's no retail sales going to be uh provided on this property. It's not allowed. Um we are uh again we're willing to talk to them after this meeting. Uh the open house was was well attended by the church. Some neighbors to the west uh the neighbor to our south.

Um we had a couple of comments uh and emails throughout the process but uh up until this afternoon when I got the call uh there's been no issue with this land use. We don't have any neighbor opposition uh to our use. Uh, and we'd prefer to get moved forward and like I said, we'll continue to work with everyone who has interest in the case. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Um, Mr. Curtis, I I have a question. So, private private car sales.

I mean, I could buy a car in a coffee shop and sales are not it's it's not a commercial retail sale. So, I mean, I think you can privately purchase a car just about anywhere. Is that right? So, Vice Chairman, members of the commission, from a a zoning standpoint, correct? We don't we regulate land uses. We don't uh regulate private auto sales, whether it's in a retail shopping center or an office parking lot or in your driveway. It's all not regulated from a zoning standpoint.

And I just wanted to make a point of clarification. This current zoning is I1. The applicant isn't changing that. As the applicant indicated, it's still I1. It doesn't allow auto sales. It doesn't allow hotels. It doesn't allow retail. Um certainly another section of the city code allows special events, but that's not the purview of zoning or the planning commission. Um there's a whole separate um code that regulates special events um and what happens during special events.

Um and just another point of a clarification, there's an existing building on the site. They certainly could do auto storage in that existing building if they wanted to. There'd be nothing to stop them. So, um, just wanted to point some of that stuff out, um, before we get too high centered on, um, what the what the proposal is.

It's really just amending the development plan from what is out there now, which is one tall building, um, to what it will be, a different development plan with multiple buildings, but the actual storage could be allowed uh, either way. And so I just wanted to point that point that out and also uh remind you the zoning is the same. Certain land uses are not allowed and a special events are in through a different process entirely. Thank you. And special events require a special events permit too.

Correct. Uh that's correct. And as you probably see, Mr. chairman of commission special events have a lot of different things for a limited period of time that aren't regulated or contemplated by zoning and that's why there's another section of the code uh to handle that um for a community such as ours that that enjoys the special events. Okay. Um well, we don't have any other speakers. Uh Commissioner Joiner, would you like to make make some uh comments? So, I have a different concern.

Um, when my husband and I brought our piece of property, we have a 1acre lot and we were going to build a home that was up on a hill and we had two neighbors below us and it behooved us to talk to the owners of those two pieces of land. I had perfect right to build there. I had uh plans that eventually got approved and um but nevertheless, we consulted with how our house was going to impact our property.

Um up to about 3:00 today, I've received as many as 10 phone calls today from people that attend Illuminate Church. That church has been there for 10 years. They hold three services on Sunday with about 2500 Scottsdale residents attending there. They also have a very vibrant children's ministry that during parts of the year takes place out in the area.

And I know that um they don't have a right to ask for grace on their parking, but the other thing that concerns me is they currently have an they the ingress and egress of these 2500 people a day. uh they enter from the east and they exit to the west. The way this plan is being drawn, they're going to completely lose that exit. And I I don't really know how the traffic's going to flow.

And um that is a big concern to me because like I said, a lot of voters go to that church and um it's our responsibility to look out for voters. And so our I guess I would ask you to aggressively work with this church to see that their faith-based attendees are well taken care of. And I don't know what that solution is. I'm that's not my purview to do.

I'm just here to represent the people that have called me and attend this church and um work for some type of a a resolution to help them continue this vibrant ministry that they have. And um let's see what else. Oh, and I am worried. Oh, the other thing I'm worried about is when you start tearing this stuff down, like I said, the children's ministry often takes place outside the front door of this church, I'm being told. And these these are young children.

So, I I want I want to make sure that when you start construction that safety standards are put in place to protect these children. That's my comment. Okay. Thank you. Did you have a response to that, Mr. Chairman and Commissioner Joiner? Um, all all great comments. Um, like I said, we've the the folks from the church were at our open house. Um, uh, they we do know that they use our parking. Uh, we're not changing any of their site plan. Uh, from an access standpoint.

Um, so I'm not sure where that comment came from. They exit. They they they exit to the west. Uh, yeah. To west. They enter from the east and exit to the west. They exit which is on your property or proposed property. So they're using our parking or the the current property owner's property. Yes. Yes. Yes. So um right that'll change when this development plan gets implemented. Yes. Um up until then that there's no change um for approximately a year.

So uh that gives the church some time to to work on on alternative part and hopefully you'll work with them on that. Definitely. And yes, we'll have all the safety requirements up for the development. Um, and when and if the church stays there, um, you know, the way our site plan is or is oriented, we've got the backs of our backs of our buildings to them. So, they're not going to actually and it's gated off.

There's not going to be actually anything that they can the children's ministry and anybody can get into the site because it's a secure site. I'm just worried about during construction. Yep. During construction. Thank you. Right. Well, they just bought that building, so they're probably not going anywhere. And at least that's what I'm being told. So, you know, I just I'm asking you as a good neighbor to work with this church and the 2500 Scottdale voters to make this an easy transition.

Thank you for your comments. That that's important to us, too. We've had several meetings in person. I've flown out to meet with them, tour the church. We've talked about parking. And as I've explained that that the the primary site that we're working on our initial entitlements um are pretty well in stone how how we've designed it. The other site to the west we haven't finalized things yet and I've told them that you know we'll work together whatever that looks like.

If we have the available to parking to do that we'll work together. Um so I don't know what that looks like yet but in the meantime as as Kurt said we probably have at least a year before dirt is moving and and uh and we're doing that. So, they've got plenty of time to find alternative sites, which I understand they're they're in conversations with based on our conversations last week. So, um we'll definitely work with them. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. All right.

Uh Commissioner Reid, I'd just like to comment that, um I've been very impressed with the facilities that are on your website in California. The design of the facilities is a looks very high-end nice scale um facility and I would suspect that this is a fairly low density type of facility compared to other things that could be put on this property with the zoning that currently exists.

So, I think that's um that's a very good use of space in an area where we tend to be concerned about traffic and a lot of congestion issues. So, I I happen to like the design and uh the use of that property. Thanks. Thank you, Commissioner. Um I guess I'd like to kind of echo those same sentiments. I mean, I I think the most activity that's going to be on this property is when it's under construction. uh car collectors, you know, they're they're a social bunch, but I think they also like quiet.

Um these are all private privately owned units. So, uh you know, these are they're almost kind of like little man caves for for these owners. Uh they're going to probably close the door and do whatever they do with their cars. Um so, you know, they they've got a huge investment in these things. And I think this uh looks like a high class project. I've seen some of your other stuff that you've you've got on your website and I was equally impressed as well. So, um I don't have any other questions.

If the commission there is Mr. Commissioner Gonzalez, you got some more comments or question. Okay.

I don't have I don't have a problem with the usage that you're proposing, but the problem I have is basically once we kick open the door again for these type of private private uh garages and everything, there has been, like I've said before, and I believe it to be true, but I would be happy to have a continuence on it if they want if somebody wants to prove me wrong, that's fine, But I have a problem with some of the usages that we have currently passed because of this type of zoning and then they come back later and they actually turn around and do something differently.

And this is something that I've actually seen now the gentleman who's you know you've had your other projects in California and they're great projects. I've looked at them. They're they're fantastic. There's nothing wrong with them. They're they're actually a benefit. But the but the issue is is that we're not in California.

This is a particular type of collection um type of product that is over here in Scottdale that we need to protect whatever is going on and what's not going along with the zoning or the type of usage is being transacted now. And this is why I try to want to protect the actual dealers that are doing stuff and not facing these priority type of sales. Thank you. And you can address that right now. Thank you.

I mean, I I I we take a lot of pride in our business and we have very good relationships with all of the cities that we do business in because we do what we say we're going to do. and we've yet to have a single complaint at any of our facilities by any city or neighbors since we've been open um for 15 plus years. Um the um these are as you said private garages and security is of the utmost.

We're not intending to do big public events and you know it's that's not what we do and so for us it's important that you understand that we have no intention of doing having dealerships on site and selling cars. That's but again as as you mentioned if I sell a car out of my garage at my house to somebody you know we have the right to do that and so do those people because they own their space. Um, but we're not we're not looking to have a a dealership there in any way, shape, or form.

And I think that although you're not in California, uh, my business will operate in many states, and we still have the control and the CCNRs um on on those properties to restrict what they can and can't do. And and it's important that that we don't want it's we don't want the outside public coming in to shop for cars. That's not why people are buying into our facilities. So, it's important that we keep, you know, security and privacy at the utmost. So, I understand your concern.

I I ask that you don't continue it because we're doing everything. My instructions to our team was keep everything inside the box, you know, as far as youth, height, setbacks traffic zoning everything. Don't ask for exceptions and let's just push this through and be a good a good developer and good neighbor.

I think we're going to be a big asset to your city and we're going to do things, you know, a little differently than maybe some of the other operators have done it and maybe where you've had some issues in the past. Because you mentioned the CCNRs, are you planning to put in in in writing the C into your CCNRs on this project that there will no be no private sales within this project? We have CCNRs that are very restrictive that restrict retail sales out of out of the uh the project.

We won't allow that. I'm not going to get into their affairs. If they sell a vehicle or a bicycle or a toaster, that's not up to me to do that. But we don't allow businesses to go in there and sell vehicles and and so because we think it degrades what we're offering. So between the zoning um that restricts us. We're not allowed to do it and our CCNRs that are tight. Um it's why we've never had a problem and complaint.

We have dealers that own garages for their own private collections, but they're for their own personal stuff away from the dealerships that they own and operate and have nothing to do with their space there. So, um, these are, uh, these are private garages for collectors and, you know, in a social environment. Okay, very good. I appreciate that.

And what I just like to reiterate the I'm not trying to pick on your project in particular, but I'm trying to stem the the the other usages that are being utilized in other projects in the future and and and to kind of um show that you know that we are have a concern in in what legitimate dealers are doing here in this city and what illegitimate dealers are doing in the city also.

And my other the other point that I'm trying to make is that when some of these collections the the state of Arizona says five or more sales in one period a year requires is it requires a dealer's license. And you know, you've stated yourself that there are dealers in in in this project. Maybe they're not selling all their cars, but when you have this many units at one time, the question is, if that project has more than five sales in one year, does that create a dealership? That's a question.

And that's a question for the state, but they're the ones who actually regulate that. But there is a there is these these things are happening in this. And like I said, the only reason I'm asking for a continuence is because I'm not fully convinced. I know you are, but I'm not fully convinced that we're not going to have a lot of privateier sales in this.

And because these online act these online auctions and everything are very aggressive and they they they almost are making these private garages into a business model and it's happening and I understand that there's a lot of doubt that you know that may be or may not be happening but I do know for in fact and I'd be happy to show at what at any point that this type of situation is going on within this city.

So, at that point, um, I was going to ask for continuance and I'll ask for the board to vote on a continuence right now and see where we stand on that. Mr. Chairman, um, well, I'd like to see if we can uh get any comment from Chair Scarro and Commissioner first before we take a vote. Of course. Thank you. Uh, because they're on on the phone. So, uh, Chair Scarro or Commissioner Artell, do you have any questions? Um, I would um agree with that. I like this development.

U Commissioner Reed, I believe it was, said that he was impressed with with what they have in California and uh with the plans for this one. Um, I think it's well thought out. It's certainly uh coloring inside the lines. Um, as for what uh, Commissioner Joiner had to say, I I believe it was my understanding that Illuminate had an um had some conversation with um, the prospective owner about buying um, the land for parking and they walked away from that or chose not to pursue it, whatever.

Um, so I mean this if if they would like to buy it, um, you know, that's I guess an opportunity, but it's an opportunity that's gone now. Uh so as far as I can see, this is, you know, a good project. Um yeah, you got to look out for voters, but you got to look out for uh owners as well. So that's all I have to say.

I didn't bring up anything about about uh traffic because if anything I think that the traffic um projection is perhaps overstated if that uh western building is going to be used for garage um it's um you know the estimate is based on light industrial and I think that's uh so that makes it a very uh conservative approach to estimating the traffic. So, I think the traffic is is good. All right. Thank you, Commissioner. Uh, Chair Scar Bro, do you have any comment or questions?

Thank you, Vice Chair. I'd like to say that I support the project and I would not support a continuence based on private sale. I don't think it's in the purview of the plan any commission to dictate uh regulations regarding the private sale. So, I uh appreciate Commissioner Joiner's comments. I do expect this applicant to work with the neighboring church to work through parking and being a good neighbor. And I also appreciate Mr. Kurs's explanation of of how much teeth the zoning code has.

And again, it's not in our purview to regulate private sales. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Um All right. I have a procedurally there has actually not been a motion to continue or a second. Okay. And so that's lacking. Okay. Commissioner Joiner, she does have a question or a comment which I forgot about. I apologize. It there's a benefit to sitting next to the chair. You know, you can get their attention. Um unlike u my fellow commissioner Mr.

Ertell, he may not care about 2500 voters, but the city council does. And what our comments are going to go to city council. And so my request to the applicant would be when you go to city council that maybe you have some positive information to share of the negotiations that have gone on with the church to protect these worshippers and their children. So that's my comment. Well, I need to respond to that. I never said I don't wouldn't care about 2500 voters. Uh, I do care about 2500 voters.

They have their rights and so do the owners. Um, I think you need to care about both. Oh, okay. Okay. So, owners have no rights. I understand. Okay. I'm done. Back off. I'm done. You're finished. Okay. Uh, any more questions or comments? None. Okay. I will entertain a motion. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion of continuence of this project to further study and develop a a cohesive uh uh report on this particular project. Okay, we have a motion. Do we have a second? I'll second it.

All right. Um, we'll take a roll call vote. Chair Scar Bro, no. Vice Chair Young, no. Commissioner Gonzalez, yes. Commissioner Ortell, no. Commissioner Joiner, yes. Commissioner Drake, yes. Commissioner Reid, no. Motion fails. All right. Uh, so I will entertain an alternate motion. Commissioner Reed, I'd like to make a motion for the recommendation of approval to the city council for case number 19 ZN20004 number two.

After finding that the PCD criteria have been met and that the proposed zoning district map amendment, development plan and amended development standards are consistent and conform with the adopted general plan per the attached stipulations. All right. Uh so we've got a motion. Second. We have a second. Roll call vote, please. Chair Scarro, yes. Vice Chair Young, yes. Commissioner Gonzalez, no. Commissioner, yes. Commissioner Joiner, no. Commissioner Drake, yes. Commissioner Reid, yes.

Motion passes. Thank you. All right. Uh, that concludes our meeting. Do we have a motion for adjournment? So moved. All in favor? Hi. Meetings adjourned. Thank you everybody.