Cave Creek Approves Five Conservation Rezones While Council Regrets Loss of Natural Roadway Buffers at Black Mountain Marketplace

Welcome to the regular town council meeting October 20th, 2026. Meeting is now called to order and council member elect Dave Ackerman has agreed to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance. David. David Ackerman. David Ackerman. Oh, I appreciate you. In the area of public announcements, I want to congratulate Stagecoach Village and Mark Tate and Patty Paul now for the fabulous event that we had last week. Taste of Cade Creek went off very, very well.

We had some staff members, some of whom were in the room, handling the town's business down there. Bo Larson was there. Teresa, who's not here tonight, Adam Stein, had a big role there with the security. And Jordan Gabow, our receptionist, was also working there.

I was very pleased to see that the 4005 committee had a booth and were talking to people about putting together together donations for the 4005 campaign and also the Cape Creek Visitor Center was there and thank Nina does such a good job on that a volunteer like everybody else seems to be in town and they were recruiting and I don't know what I'll talk to people about Cape Creek so once again it was a great event look forward to next year I've been going to that for gosh 10 years now and it really is a nice event Other announcements from council?

George Ross, pardon me, because...okay. Thank you. When I moved to Cave Creek, the first person I met in Cave Creek was George Ross, and he did some great service for Cave Creek. And unfortunately, as Kathleen pointed out, He passed away yesterday, so we've lost a real asset to Cape Creek. Catherine, did you want to say something about George? George had a wonderful history being in the military and a helicopter pilot in Vietnam.

He was strong and tough in all of his 5'8 body or so, and he was a real champion of Cape Creek government. And he supported every one of my candidacies and I will miss him very much. Thank you. Anything else? Town manager report. Mayor, I have no report tonight. Okay, call to the public. We have no request to speak, Mayor. Okay, meeting adjourned. Just kidding. Just kidding. Lock the doors.

On the consent agenda tonight is the council discussion of possible motion to recommend to the state liquor board approval of a series 003 in state microbrewery liquor license for Desert Hills Brewing Company, 34 350 North Cape Creek Road, Cape Creek, Arizona 85331. The second is approval of September 1st, 2026, Regular Town Council meeting minutes. And the third is approval of September 15th, 2026, Regular Town Council meeting minutes. And will they be approved? Second. All those in favor? Aye.

Motion carries 7-0. And that reminds me that Cynthia Driscoll is with us tonight, but she's in St. George, Utah, a nice place to be. And she's virtual tonight. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you for making that effort while you're doing your grandmother duties. On the general agenda items, we're going to move, make a slight change that we're going to ask Daisy Mountain to come first. Brian, just, you can stay there. I don't want to be honest.

Good evening How are we doing Good Seems like it been a while but I glad to be here this evening To give a fire and EMS service report from Daisy Mountain Fire District to the town council here in Cave Creek I will be brief It seems like that going to be the trend of the day for you today We just give some information It certainly available for any questions that you might have but here are the statistics for this period of time which ran through August 31st of this year These are the call data incidents, 542 calls in the town of Cave Creek, 386 of those here in the core of the town with engine 147.

The remainder is externally with the new station 44 in service. 367 medical, 61 fire incidents, about average, about 70 calls a month, and 386 of those were Engine 147's first due area. So, no, nothing out of the ordinary there. Again, pretty typical for our distribution of calls. We report to you a median response time of about 7 minutes and 27 seconds.

We've had about 198 units respond into the town of Cave Creek from the automatic aid system, whether or not those are covering while Engine 47 is on another call or they're adding to a multi-unit incident. This is really important because these regional resources reinforce your first due responses here you have in the town, and when incidents require additional staffing or specialty units, those units are responding to you automatically.

We can-we get these metrics from our computer-aided dispatch system, so these are all public records and can be requested at any time from anybody to validate the information That's the webinar that I provide for you today. One of the biggest things that we do is training and to be operationally ready. So you can see the amount of time that we invest in our resources and the number of hours that we put into that for our training of our crews. Pretty proud of these statistics.

I would say to you that our units generally aren't overly busy from emergency activity perspective, but we keep them occupied with keeping their skills toned up and ready to go at all times. So you can see how busy we are with our training and operational readiness statistics. Again, one of the biggest components that we've been focusing on since the beginning of the year is this unit here that is deployed out of Station 144 in West Cave Creek. This unit is called Heavy Rescue 144.

It's a specialized rescue capability. As you can see from this picture, it's a very large truck, bigger than even it looks like in the photo. This is a hazardous materials technical rescue unit that has given a significant increase in our response to the rescues in the Spur Cross and the park area for hikers. These are highly specialized individuals that we have four of them on duty at a time, and this truck carries all of their gizmos and tools and heavy rescue equipment.

This truck was purchased by the Daisy Mountain Fire District, but the equipment that's on it, we have acquired through federal grant funding, through the state of Arizona's Homeland Security Grant Program, and through what's called the UASI, which is the Urban Area Safety Initiative. All of those grant programs, federal grant programs, have reinforced this regional response capabilities, and we have this truck in the town of Cave Creek, which is a real added value to your community.

So we're pretty proud of this, and our members continue to focus on their training there as well. So, amongst everything else, you know, we continue to do our community outreach in Cave Creek whenever we have the opportunity. We're always training for our readiness in the town and any specific hazards that we might have.

And, of course, we consider this a service and a partnership between both Daisy Mountain and the town of Cave Creek, and we're always willing to participate in any events that you might have, whether it's community events or planned town events. We work together with all of those. So in addition to that, we continue to do department readiness and team development. Some of these photos here of hospitals that we partner with, with Honor Health and ARIVAC and helicopter groups.

We also are ready for the wildland season, which I'm pleased to announce we did not have a very rigorous one.

The combination of humidity and the lack of wind and some rainfall really got us through a wildland season without any significant incidents So that good for all of us Of course all this rain that we getting now everybody predicting a pretty serious season next year What I tell you is we hear that every year We always hear it going to be a really bad year and you only really know what it will be until you in it And it really a combination of dry windy conditions and obviously the vegetation growth So luckily, again, we didn't have that significant event this year, so we're pretty happy about that.

In exchange for that, what happens is after our season is over, Daisy Mountain makes our units available for wildland regional deployments. These are some photographs of our units that were in Washington and Oregon. You remember those fires that were going on in the summer were pretty significant. We send our units there. We drive them all the way from Daisy Mountain to those communities, and there are generally three guys, three firefighters in each one of those vehicles.

They have to be certified. There's a federal certification called a red card certification for wildland firefighters. So in order to be a boss in one of those, what they call an engine boss, which in the structural world we would call a captain on a truck, they have to go through a whole certification process, and part of it is hands-on training and actual experience doing the work.

So we deploy our units to these out-of-state incidents to get additional training and knowledge from our own wildland firefighters here in Daisy Mountain. So this is just an example of some of that that we do. I am pleased to announce that the town manager and I have met regarding our IGA. We have a component of it in Article III, which is determine the agreement that we should meet every five years and discuss any service levels that we needed to change or review.

The two, both of us met on that, and neither side has brought forward any additional or changes to the existing IGA, so we're not recommending any service level changes at this time. And I'm available for any questions that you might have. Tom? I would suggest that a good way to prevent the ambulance coming is a good relationship with your health providers. We could all learn that.

In terms of the fire events that we've had, what suggestion would you have to minimize those for those of us living in Cave Creek? Is there a commonality of things that people could do that they're not doing or what they are doing that are causing these fires? I would say there's nothing specific. Each one of them is its own separate entity. Obviously, around wildland, you know, the defensible space things that we need to do. and reducing the fire load around a home.

Inside your home, the most significant thing you can do is have smoke detectors in your house, operating smoke detectors. If you have natural gas or propane, you should have carbon monoxide detectors as well that go off in case there's an emergency regarding the inability for the furnaces to work properly and then emitting a lot of carbon monoxide. But I would tell you that we don't have a trend that would say this is what's happening in Cave Creek that we need to focus on.

What we did not too long ago was a community risk reduction assessment of our area, mostly regarding those two things I just mentioned to you, and falls. Elderly people falling is a significant EMS call that we go on.

So any type of fall prevention activities that are suggested for elderly people to prevent them from falling, fall prevention is a really good aspect of how to prevent an EMS call because falling and breaking your hip is a very significant medical issue, particularly for the elderly because it's harder to recover. So, but as far as fires go, there's not enough really to determine what, whether they're grouped in any specific way, other than just the continued threat for what that might be. So.

Thank you. Yeah. Great question. So we no longer have Jim Ford on staff, who was somewhat of an intermediary between the fire department and the town. Do you see a void because we have not replaced that person or how is that working out?

Council member Royer and members of the council the town manager and I spoke about that at our meeting that we had about whether or not we should look at some type of an arrangement between the two I would say that we are completely open to have someone as a liaison to the town or looking for some type of effort that can connect us a little bit better on a day basis I have different people that work with your staff for different issues It always better to have one specific person to call like we had Jim So I would say that that advantageous and Grady and I have already We've already been in some discussions about that.

We will talk about it as we get closer to budget season because you'll have to-I know you have the position still in the budget, but you'll have to discuss what that looks like for you, and we would have to discuss what that looks like for us, but we're totally willing to do that. I was telling Grady that aside from the fact that we would find some efficiencies with that, it's also good for my staff. What do I mean by that? We have succession planning.

One of my goals in Daisy Mountain is when I leave and when my executive staff leaves that we have people that are qualified to take those higher level strategic positions. And it's always great for my staff to learn how government works and how in a town, a town manager and a council work a little bit differently than a fire district. So I have a real interest in providing that insight for my staff as well. So we're already working on that. Look forward to continuing those discussions. Okay.

I'm sure Gary will keep that. Grady will keep us surprised. Question for you. So as far as mountain rescues go off these mountains around here, have you had many this quarter or what have you? We haven't had that many this quarter. It's been pretty light. Of course, the season is just starting again. Now that it's cooling off, there'll be a lot more people that are using the trails, which is okay, because this is the time of year that we encourage them to use the trails.

So, lots of people hiking. What happens this time of year is when they get injured on the trail, and we haven't had any specific injuries on the trail that we've had to go and extricate anybody off. That's so much better than having people get dehydrated and sick on the trail, because those can become real life-threatening emergencies. But we have not had significant incidents here in the town in the last quarter at all. That's wonderful. Yeah. Other questions from council? Seeing none.

Thank you, Brian. It's hard to believe it's been five years. It is hard. I know. It's hard to hear. Well, that can't be right. Yeah, it's been just about five years. So, yeah. But we really appreciate what you've done, the great relationship. I think you've brought the kind of safety that the town needs and deserves, and it's just been wonderful. We haven't had the big instance. We did the first year or two. Yeah, we sure did. Yeah. About a quarter mile from my house.

and they were handled, you know, we had what I think I counted 14 pieces of equipment that responded where in the past we had one piece of equipment, and it would have probably burned some houses. So it's been good for the town. We love working with you and thank you very much for your hard work. Thank you for your work here at the council. If I don't see you before your last council meeting, congratulations and thank you for the partnership. Thank you. Yeah. You're up.

We've got somebody all ready to go in the batter's box. Council discussion possible acceptance of a non-motorized trail easement across parcel 211-82-001L. Thank you, Mayor, members of council. This item is the acceptance of a trail easement. Mr. and Mrs. Powers are here. They're seated behind me. This came up. They are currently installing a fence on their property.

And when we were doing the site plan review process, we soon realized that a portion of the Spur Cross Road trail that we have meanders onto their property a little bit. That was done about 18 or so years ago when we put that trail in, and the contractor at the time actually meandered it east of the right-of-way ever so slightly to avoid several Palo Verde trees along the road there, and it ended up on their property.

They've been gracious enough to consider and allow for the dedication of a trail easement where the trail is actually physically located. So that is all we are asking council to consider tonight is accepting that trail easement and solving an error that was made in the field about 18 years ago. I'd be happy to answer any questions, Mr. Mayor. Questions from council? Did you make that error? Absolutely not. Well then, I'll move to, are we moving on? Questions here. Okay. Public comment?

None, Mayor. Okay, Ms. Lletts, you can make a motion. I'll move to accept dedication. of a public non-motorized trail easement per the attached deed. And I'd like to thank the owners of the property. Second. Really appreciate it. Comments? Thank you. Yes. I admire thanks too. I mean, it's just wonderful. Yeah, this is something we want to see in the community. We have a number of incidents where people have taken right-of-way and taken advantage of right-of-way.

Some people have put Impediments across the right of way. It's difficult for the town and it's wonderful when people in the community yourselves, if there are others, step forward and make what may be a slight compromise and preserve some trees. So thanks. This is the best of Cave Creek. Absolutely. Anybody else? Okay. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

Next on the agenda are one, two, three, four, five second readings and I understand you're going to take those together, Luke. Yes, if that's okay with the Mayor, I would be happy to. So the last time I was before you, October 6th, council gave first reading to five ordinances which effectively start the process to rezone property in the town of Cave Creek. There are also two items on that same agenda which were to amend the underlying land use of two of the five parcels.

This evening, this is second reading. Staff usually doesn't do a full presentation of a fact that we proceeded with on October 6th, so I'll just cut right to it. These are the five areas. These are the five zoning cases illustrated in the map. You see you've got the piece given to the town- the pieces given to the town by the development team- the former development team of Cahaba Ranch- or Cahaba Springs, excuse me. The piece due east of that, 25 acres, deeded to the town by Alan Rosenis.

Below that, the large snake-looking piece is the PA Sites Preserve, which is owned by Desert Foothills Land Trust. Again, when we started looking at these areas, we approached Desert Foothills Land Trust and said, and said, hey, we notice your underlying zoning is residential. Would you like us to, kind of in the spirit of housekeeping, amend that zoning as well? And they agreed, as well as with their parcel. It's identified here. It's too small really on the map.

Z2602 Saguaro Hill, the town and DFLT partnered to purchase 2.2 acres of land adjacent to the library Approximately 20 years ago, and this is rezoning those from DR 89 to open space. And then the five-acre piece on Black Mountain, which Desert Foothills Land Trust dedicated a trail easement to the town last year there as well. So those comprise the five areas that we're looking at. And here are the potential motions that staff is asking for.

I will also, as my standard kind of obligatory remark, anytime a zoning map amendment is-or zoning amendment is made, there is a 30-day period before the effectiveness of that ordinance goes into effect. So there will be 30 days by which somebody can file a referendum on council's decision because it is zoning and land use related and that could be referred to a ballot. With that, I'd be happy to answer any questions that council may have. Questions from council?

Town attorney, is this a hearing? Do we need to open a hearing on this or so? You've satisfied that. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. Shall we start? Can I make a motion for the first one? Sure. Good. I move to approve the second reading of ordinance 2026-04. Second. Any comment? Good job. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Go ahead, Joe. Approves. No, no. Does somebody else approve? Second. Second. Comments? Okay. All those in favor? Aye. Motion carries 7-0. Move to approve second reading. Go for it.

We're going in. Ordinance 2026-06. Second. Second. Comments All those in favor say aye Aye Opposed Motion carries 7 Tom I take the next one Move to approve second reading of ordinance 2026 Second Go ahead Comments All those in favor Aye Opposed Motion carries 7 Tom you want to take the next one or you Sure Move to approve the second reading of ordinance 2026 City 26-2. Second. Comments? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Motion carries 7-0. Okay, you've got your zoning changes.

In 30 days, the clock starts. Yeah. Next, I'll need an agenda. Is the engineering and public works department report. Okay. Good evening, Mayor and Council. I brought my backup here. Muscle. We call it a quarterly report. It's not really quarterly, since the last one we did was in December, But we'll move on. Next slide. Let's see. Enter space. There we go. So public works effort this year, trimming of the right-of-ways, pothole repair, roadway sweeping, all the things that you expect us to do.

And hopefully we've been doing them for you. We've also responded to 113 separate orders where we get people that call in and ask for specific services to be done, and we've done 113 of them since the beginning of the year. We also had the repainting of the crosswalks that we did this year so that they look a little better. The public works effort, we had a little bit of a rainstorm a couple of weeks ago. We had 3.82 inches, as measured at the gauge, about a mile from here.

That put it into the 200-year return interval category for a three-hour storm. Our public works crews were out there just about the time that the rains fall stopped and they had the roads open, most of the roads open before they left that night and then came back the next day to finish the job. So they responded very well and we were very appreciative that they were able to get that done. And then there have been some subsequent storms. So we'll see how we do after tomorrow, too.

They're supposed to rain again. And we seem to be getting a lot of...we have a lot of cleanup and a lot of damages to some people's roads that are in flood-prone areas. Where's this picture? Where's this picture? That's actually my car right across... It could be here. Yeah, that's the parking lot. That's Town Hall Wash, as we like to refer to it. That got up to my running boards on my vehicle, which is parked right out that door. So yes, that was our parking lot here at Town Hall.

I think I recognize the town manager's car there too, so you better be careful. Yes, it got pretty high that night or that day. Did Galloway Wash close down on Spur Cross Road on that event? Yes, it did. And I actually looked at the gauge for Cave Creek Wash. And it was about 3,500 cubic feet per second going down Cave Creek from that storm. So it was quite a bit of rainfall.

It was an intense—it wasn't in the—it was maybe in the 25-year return for the one-hour storm, but by the time you got to the two-hour storm, it was up to a 200-year event. We got some new equipment. This is our roll-off that we got. We also got a 4,000-gallon water truck, and we replaced our 2006 Vermeer wood chipper that always seemed to be in the shop. All of those were in the shop. And so we have the new vehicles that are working well to provide the services for the town.

Do you want to talk about your new toys or not This is hard to read but these were the paving projects that we did last year The paving projects were Ridgeway Cape Creek Road southbound 72nd Street East Rockaway Hills Drive and Sunset Trail The Cape Seal projects were New River Road Linda Drive We did two segments of that Carriage Drive Surrey Drive and 72nd Street And they all raised our pavement condition index up So we're getting closer to what we're trying to hit for a goal.

When is the Morningstar? Morningstar, we will get to that one in just a second because that one has its own set of issues. The projects that we're looking at this year, we have a $2 million budget. You'll notice that my math isn't very good because what we have slated is about $2.7 million. That's for 26th Street. We added 26th because it's in very bad condition. And so what we're doing is we will look at whether we do all of Schoolhouse. Schoolhouse actually has three portions of it.

If I can get to the right page in mine because I have my notes. Schoolhouse from Cave Creek to Grapevine is about a $400,000 project that would be a mill and pave. From Grapevine to Fleming Springs, we're looking at a Cape Seal project because it's actually in fairly good condition, but we don't want to leave a portion out, but it could be done at a later time.

And then the piece of Fleming Springs to Cielo Run, those were actually the ones that were in our pavement management plan, and that's about a $700,000 chunk. We could also then do portions of 26th Street and see what we could get depending to keep it within the budget that you've provided us. How what lessons were we I can recall we did not we'd repaved Schoolhouse Road not that long ago You and I have talked about this before. What lessons did we learn from that?

Project and the fact that we're having to redo it What we did and they did the same thing on Cape Creek Road They tended to go with a thin Overlay like a one-inch overlay Well, if you read the MAG requirements, the Maricopa Association of Government Standards Specifications, you can't go less than two and a half or it won't bind. You end up with too thin of a section. You have three-quarter inch gravel in a one-inch section and it breaks apart. And so, it just comes off in big chunks.

And that's what we're experiencing on Schoolhouse. That's what we experienced on Cave Creek Road. And we end up with these huge potholes after rainstorms. And so, So what we're doing now is we're going in, we don't put in less than two and a half inches or less than three inches. We try and go for three inches if we can. And that way, that's the size of the minimum size of a lift of asphalt, according to MAG.

Is it fair to conclude that doing it right the first time rather than doing it wrong once and then right the second time is a... Always do it right the first time. This precedes house. Yes, it does. And so when we've looked at it, we don't like to come in and do just one inch of pavement, because again, it doesn't hold. It may hold for four years, it may hold for five years, it may hold for ten. But we're trying to get a 25 to 30 year road out of it.

And so you put in the right thickness, and then you triple the life of the road. And once they go in and they mill, they put up the traffic control, they do the mobilization, they get the equipment out there, you might as well do it correctly and not save pennies to trip over dollars later. Thank you. So anyway, these are the projects we're looking at.

We'll know better when we bid them on what portions that we can bring to council, but we will keep it within the $2 million budget that we have for this year. The median enhancements. We have EarthCare coming in to assist us with keeping the invasive weeds out. So far, it appears that we're going to have a beautiful desert median with all the rain that we've had.

They were looking a little sketchy during the summer but they were typical desert vegetation which looks sketchy because they retreat during the heat and then they bloom during the wetter months So hopefully we approaching a better desert vegetation balance in the medians How is EarthCare the company that we always used EarthCare is one of the consultants that we had He was actually our arborist back in the day Oh, Farringer. Yeah.

So we use their company because he is one of the top experts in desert vegetation in our local area. So we've used him as our consultant to come in and his company to come in and make sure that we're hitting the desert vegetation correctly. Okay, Dusty, here's your answer. So we are working with ADOT. We are—they had some changes that they wanted to make in the design. Those should be going back in—I talked to the consultant today. Those changes are going back in today.

We are approaching the getting the environmental clearance for the project. Then we can do the one consolidation that we need to do with a right-of-way issue that we have. We had one area where we found that we have everywhere we have 50 to 110 feet, except for one area. We had 21 feet. Why? Don't know. But again, when you dig into history, you find weird things. So we had 21 feet right away.

So what we've done right now is we're designing the road to fit in the 21 foot, and then we're getting a 10-foot easement from the people that will-but we can't approach the people until we get environmental clearance. We have found a couple of areas where we have to look at native or historic preservation, and a couple areas where we, and one area where we have possible endangered species. So we have the... What endangered species? The yellow-billed cuckoo.

I don't see any cuckoos running around on that low... Nothing where all of it comes from. Well, they're usually sitting at this table right now, except I got my nose done, so it's not so yellow-billed anymore. But yes, a yellow-billed cuckoo that they haven't seen, but it's possible because one of its habitats is cottonwood trees, which would only be in the jewel of the creek area. So it's possible, but Mr. and Mrs. Cuckoo have not been seen yet. They're winter visitors.

Who would you get this information from? Oh, this came from the part of the environmental study that we had to have done for this project. Because when you do a federal grant project, it's full belts and suspenders. You have the historic preservation. You have all of the environmental clearances that you have to have. And so we're just now approaching the environmental clearances.

So instead of having to put down the pine tire, which they always complain about how environmentally unsound it is, now they're complaining because of a yellow woodpecker that we've seen in years. It's the noise. It's the noise that disturbs Mr. and Mrs. Cuckoo that we have to worry about. So it is the noise, and I told them that we weren't really worried about the yellow-billed cuckoo as much as we were the green wallet snowbird. Snowbird.

Because the Greenwald Snowbird actually, you can hear them squawking all the way to town hall multiple times a year. They didn't find my humor amusing. We do. We do. That's a good job on that. Yeah, so we are working, we are working, still working on this project. We're hopefully going to have a bid by the end of the year. So are they going to do it? in asphalt, or are they going to do it? Right now, it's going to probably be the double chip. Thank God. Is what is being put on the spec.

We still have two phases of ADOT review to go through, so we won't know until we get through the two phases of ADOT review. Let's see. Oh, I just went by the Cape Creek, the Carefree Highway widening Cape Creek Road to Tom Darlington. I always have to give a report on that because nothing has been happening with the city of Scottsdale on that.

What is happening, however, is that we have required, since Cape, Carefree Highway is ours, we've required both the consultant for the Simon Group or Empire Group on the north side in Carefree and the The Black Mountain Marketplace to follow the plans that were laid out, and we've also had them approved by the city of Scottsdale and the consultant so that they agree that what they're doing will match the ultimate parameters of the construction.

That way, we minimize our costs eventually for—that we have to put in when that project goes. When is Scottsdale going to move on that piece? According to their website, 2025. They have a funding shortfall, and they have not yet. I keep sending out, when are you going to get us the IGA, and we have not gotten it back yet. So, we keep doing it, but if you look at their website, it says, scheduled to begin in later 2025. That's why it is due to the roundabout change. Yeah. Yes.

So, at that, any questions that we can answer for you? Well, thank you very much. Thank you, Hal. And thanks for the humor. Nice job on the road, Gregor. Pulse, are you waiting for me? Oh, excuse me. Development services. I was asleep here. I thought you were one of the engineering public works employees. I wish. Development service department report. Go ahead. Perfect. Thank you, Mayor and members of council, just queuing this up here. Thank you, Brian.

Luke, I heard a rumor that you were on the rodeo board. Is that true? Drew? Drew Brees, It's in my report. Oh, good. Let's hear it. Drew Brees, Pleased to be back this evening. You've been seeing quite a bit of me lately with kind of the intervals of coming to you with state land department updates, so I'll start there. Obviously, you were here, we gave a report, RJ Cardin and myself, to council in September.

We've met with Maricopa County leadership since and some other things, and we will be coming back to Council with an updated report in November. We felt after the election happens, there's a lot of things with what's on the ballot that affects Maricopa County that really will move the needle one way or another in how we proceed. So we'll be back to provide you an update and let you know what's going on in November on that front.

And then earlier this evening, as you're aware, you considered these areas for rezoning. And then I wanted to let everybody know that it is not only rodeo time for us with the Turquoise Circuit finals coming up November 5th, 6th, and 7th, but also just in general out at the rodeo grounds. We've been booked every weekend for about the last month out there with different events, Cutting Horse Association, Scottsdale Saddle Club, among others.

But I wanted to plug the Turquoise Circuit Finals as it is a town sponsored event. Council authorized the extension of that agreement to keep Turquoise Circuit here through 2030. We're very excited about that. Obviously the Turquoise Circuit Finals is the top earning contestants and rough stock from New Mexico and Arizona and that circuit contains about 22 PRCA rodeos.

The winners of that weekend will proceed to the Circuit Finals rodeo where they would have a chance to additionally qualify for the National Finals rodeo. And last year going to the National Finals, it was really neat to see people, cowboys and contestants that were here for our Turquoise Circuit the first year we hosted it here. They're competing at the NFR and doing actually very well. There's a QR code there if anybody wants to scan and get some tickets. Otherwise, we'll see out there.

And I'll just kind of get into the different development projects going on, starting with the Black Mountain Marketplace, which is at the southeast corner of Carefree Highway and Cave Creek Road The site plan review application was approved in March The project is underway Salvage operations have been completed We want to report that approximately 160 trees and 80 cacti have been salvaged And that actually quite an extensive process through town staff And again we actually bring in a third consultant to walk that and verify that their native plant inventory and their salvage report and everything matches especially on projects this big What we learned from Walmart was a pretty good playbook, how it turned out, and we're kind of implementing that same playbook as far as boots on the ground being out there at different intervals, whether they're calling and requesting inspection or not, just going out and just monitoring progress as they go through it.

In the future, could we protect undisturbed around the roadways? The reason I'm saying it, I've got a number of people complaining about it looked terrible, blading that whole thing. And everybody says, oh, it's great, they're going to save the trees, but what about that undisturbed, that undisturbed space along the roadways is what makes Cave Creek, Cave Creek?

So the options for development are through a transfer of density rights, which the applicant The development went through and was approved by council. It's actually resolution 202609. Council approved that resolution May 19th, which allows a developer of commercial property to purchase hillside property within the town core to set aside and preserve. And this has been done by the micro hospital. The Sprouts Development also did this.

The ALDI has done this as well and this developer did so and they purchased approximately four acres, four residentially zoned acres on Black Mountain to preserve. So there won't be essentially four houses on the side of Black Mountain is the trade-off through a TDR. So council-is-is council's discretion whether or not to approve a TDR to allow the additional disturbance. They still have to meet all the other requirements of the ordinance.

They actually have to landscape even more as a part of that. So that's how this project came to be in its current situation. I understand all that. I understand. Can we bring back up and review the ordinance and fix it so that there is an undisturbed space along the roadways? Setback. A setback. Whatever you want to call it. But an undisturbed space along the roadway. At least 15 feet, at least 15 to 20 feet. Luke, I believe what the council member is saying is not the situation's done.

But that going forward, we might want to consider an amendment that takes that in consideration for along the right-of-way. So it's not saying to correct this. This has already been done. We can't do anything about it. The complaints are that you bl- not you, but they bladed it pin to pin, and you have a really nice space right next to it with Walmart. And yes, I understand that as you explained to me that that area in front was landscaped.

But this is going to end up, even with the landscaping, looking very similar to Bell Road. And the one thing that... Well, I'm just telling you that's kind of how it's starting to look. And that's what people object to. And those were the green walleted snowbirds. I've heard from a number of them. We'll definitely take a look at it. I'm not picking on you, Luke.

I'm just saying, can we take a look at the ordinance and can we look at keeping some undisturbed space along the roadway or the right of way? Sure. Yes, absolutely. We'll take a look at that. Would that conflict with the transfer to the hilltop? Well, it wouldn't do anything for this project, obviously. But yeah, it would be a requirement for undisturbed that would not permit people to obtain a TDR. How many parcels are left up in the mountain?

DARYL FOXMANNELL, We did-off the top of my head, I'm not sure. It's in the teens, 13, 14 in that neighborhood, probably 40 acres. And again, when we look at commercial development in its entirety and not just this corner, there's There's not a whole lot of commercial left to develop to even apply this to, but we will definitely, as you've stated, take a look at what that would look like, providing a requirement that, you said, 15 feet frontage be left in a- Something that looks natural. Okay.

I mean, you're the planning expert.

You guys are the planning experts so the planning and zoning should take a look at it too but there should be an open area that natural vegetation you know around the roadways And they will provide that through landscaping just like Walmart did So it will not look like Bell Road as Walmart does not look like Bell Road If you go down Bell Road there is no landscaping requirement at all It street sidewalk asphalt parking spaces If you drive by it right now, what does it look like? No landscaping.

I know they're going to do it eventually, but it is a gripe that people have expressed. And we heard that same gripe when Walmart developed. So you just have to let the development requirements bear out in the landscaping. Please take a look at it. Absolutely. Luke, I got a quick question about that. Have you heard any updates on the tenants? The Mountainside Fitness and the Fry's Fuel Center are the two that are in for permit review right now.

No other tenants have been disclosed as final letters of intent and leases haven't been finalized yet. Thank you. Mr. Manns. Luke, I just wanted to kind of talk about that issue just for a second. If you drive down Carefree Highway, when you get to Scottsdale on the south side at 60th Street, there is like a medical complex in there. And the buffer out in the front of the Carefree Highway, I don't know how many feet it is, but it's certainly more than 15 feet.

But they have the density footprint on that parcel. And then as you go east, it hooks up to Terra Vita. Of course, they've got the buffer there. And then on the north side with Carapri, you have a buffer. I blame myself when I saw this project coming out of the ground. I thought, what were we thinking that an unbuildable hillside lot would be a fair trade for denuding Cave Creek commercial property?

And I guess there's a proposal coming from P&Z to make this permanent that we can do pen to pen lading of commercial parcels. That was a recommendation that's coming to the council. If we bring that ordinance back in the new term, I think we should look at it because I don't think a hillside lot is worth the visual salvation in comparison to street side large artery transport where, I mean, we used to call that Disney desert.

When they scrape everything, throw down gravel or put golden barrel cactus from California in there. And I mean, it's just not what Cape Creek used to do. And I don't know how much other people have heard here, but I'll be honest, I was shocked when I saw this, but I blame myself individually and I blame the council for me to advocate a value judgment that we didn't anticipate or didn't think thoroughly. We fell in love with the idea of Black Mountain having less houses on it.

It used to be a huge issue 30 years ago. It's kind of gone by the wayside. But, and then this will date me and I'll end on this, but we had the scenic corridor on Scottsdale Road and Cave Creek Road all the way up historically to where it met in the town of Cave Creek. And over the years, we've lost a lot of that setback on both roads, but some has been left intact. So rhetorically, I'm just saying, did we really make the right choice by not having a natural buffer?

Like we do in front of Cave Creek right next door, in front of Walmart right next door. Did we make the right choice by this major intersection, which is four lanes going to six lanes, to not have left a natural desert buffer and left all of the density intact on the design of the property, but just having that scenic space of natural undisturbed desert in front of it? So, I mean, I, again, I take blame for not paying close attention to the discussion.

And the decision we made on these conservation lots, I think we should bring it back next session. And I know, Luke, what you're indicating is discretionary. The council doesn't have to award it. So ultimately, it's got that ability. But maybe we should take a look at what we're getting for the trades. We made trades on top of the mountains over here for the subdivision that was supposed to occur on this property, which hasn't come out of the ground yet.

When something's completely unbuildable, I don't know if that's conservation set aside or just the fact that it's likely to be converted to conservation set aside after the development is completed.

But on Cave Creek Road, there's been a general dismay from people on Black And people that have spoken to me about what were we thinking And when you try to explain that all the things that you offer commercial property and tax dollars this that and the other that one thing they keep coming back to is yeah okay great but why didn you do in front of Walmart the same thing as on the adjacent lot And it not a good answer Okay Because we doing landscaped It is the same as Walmart The landscape will be the same as Walmart They have their retention along Cave Creek Road just as Walmart does.

That will be landscaped. So the look will be Walmart is not undisturbed in the front. Well help me out here because I could be wrong or imprecise but if you drive up Cave Creek Road there are trees that were never touched when Walmart was placed in behind that undisturbed portion. Not accurate. That was their nursery. That whole area is where they transplanted all their cactus.

If you recall, all the trees they were required to salvage, the town at the time was under construction with our wastewater treatment plant. And we said, you know what, instead of boxing them up and setting them there, we'll go ahead and take them off your hands and you just replace them in kind in your landscaping area. That whole retention basin up in front of Walmart between the firehouse subs and Cave Creek Road, that's a retention basin. That was all disturbed and related. Mr.

Mayor, what about the trees behind the culvert area? Those are all transplant or nursery-grown trees that they put in. So let me see if I'm understanding you. So maybe what you're saying is that when this project comes out of the ground and the landscaping is restored, it's not gravel, golden barrels, and concrete curbs. It's actually a restoration of desert species and then left unmaintained to kind of go back to natural? That is correct.

And I guess what you're also saying is that the experiment is successful as evidenced by the number of years on the front of Walmart. Which is why I'm asking for patience and understand what our regulations and guidelines require. And if you are okay with how Walmart looks from Cave Creek Road, that will be the same look that is carried over onto this development as well. And I took more calls than probably you have all during the Walmart process, and it's the same.

You just have to – I understand no one likes patience, but that is the look. It is not the Disneyland desert or anything else. The undisturbed portion that Walmart had to provide, five acres, is on the other side of the wall along Oleson. When you turn left at the right, there's a wall that kind of juts out and goes down. They just took five acres and just said, there you go, along where Oleson Road would have otherwise gone through. Which, Mr.

Mayor, which is good because it provided a buffer to the adjacent residential. Sure. So do you feel that when this comes to maturity that it will in fact somewhat resemble the setback that we have at 60th Street and Cerro Creek Highway, that there actually would be enough vegetation? Maybe not the same amount back, but the effect would be comparable? From a landscape perspective, yes. From a built-out perspective, probably not because there are more buildings and a lot more massing.

So it will look more enhanced development-wise than what Walmart does. So from a landscape perspective, yes. One last question. What was the setback do you know offhand between Cave Creek Road and the Walmart? Oh, to the Walmart or to the Firehouse Subs building? Well, yeah, Firehouse Subs, that whole strip center there. Because it seems like a pretty good distance. Yeah, and I remember thinking that too. Then I looked not too long ago and was surprised I don't think it was even 40 feet.

Can I chirp in here, Tom? Yeah. Thank you. So what Dusty said earlier is kind of what you're saying, and Luke did say he was going to look into it. We were going to get going on that. The other thing I want to point out is how much commercial is even left on Carefree Highway? Seriously. Not much, right? That much, right? I will elaborate further in my presentation. I appreciate. I have one last question.

For accuracy, when Tom said that they were unbuildable lots on Black Mountain, is that the case? No, ma'am. So we actually did preserve land that homes could have been built on. Absolutely. Through these transfer densities. Well, I'd like to explain my comment if I could. When I say unbuildable lot, I don't mean legally, under the general plan or zoning. I'm talking about the fiscal feasibility of someone conducting sewer and water. I mean, look what we went through with the Pinkators.

They may not be legally or literally undevelopable, but they are highly unattractive sites for a single-family residential based on infrastructure costs and compliance with town requirements on everything from ridgelines to, you know, so forth. You can build a platform up Correct. You make an interesting point. I believe the Pingatour property was five acres and it was going to have one house on it. And now it's got, I believe, four on that same house.

five acres that would have otherwise been included in a pool of parcels like these that staff has identified through looking at hillside view sheds and everything else. Well, the town planning department turned Pinkator down in the 90s, and since the 90s, we've had all that development up on that side of Black Mountain. And I'm sure it's for legal reasons for, you know, what they're entitled to. But, so when I use the term unbuildable, I don't mean literally, but figuratively.

And I'm always speaking for myself, but I was so seduced when we first had the presentation that we were D, density, the side of a steep face that doesn't benefit from the land parcel adaptation to make it a building lot. You know, they're cutting the shelf like they do in Paradise Valley. Look at Mummy Mountain. Unbelievable what can be done from an engineering standpoint. But aesthetically, you got rock ledges with houses 10,000 square feet and up. I apologize if it sounded as if...

No, I was just trying to give clarification. So I'm glad you were able to do that. But we got a lot of value. I mean, everybody in Cape Creek looks at Black Mountain. So it's not all we're focusing on just that. And when you're driving by, I'd rather be able to see undisturbed mountaintops. And it's a trade-off. And we don't want to kill the opportunity to save as much Black Mountain as we can either. So good luck with this. That's why transfer is the operative word and transfer density rates.

Yes. So moving on, the hotel site plan, again, that's 114 rooms. This was in my previous presentation back about four or five months ago. 114 rooms, two stories, 25 feet in height. It's got a detached lobby building, spa rooms, an outdoor pool area, native landscaping along the perimeter. I just want to note the plan meets all zoning requirements, including parking, outdoor lighting, landscaping, and height. That project is currently in review.

I believe their engineer and our engineer are going back and forth with the final disposition of the schoolhouse road right of way and how that's going to lay out with that improvement and how it ties into Galloway to the north and the post office to the south. I just want to comment there. Those trees on Galloway are already growing into the road, the roadway. When you're coming up the hill there, From the north, you have to move over to avoid hitting the trees, and it's a blind hill.

So you really have to think about making sure that the plants we put in there, there's enough space for them. The tree canopy doesn't hang over into the road where it's either a maintenance problem or it's a safety problem with hitting cars. Absolutely. And I did notice that and took note of that as well. Our standards require eight foot back of curb for a tree. So at least an eight foot. Oh, those are eight feet. Right. Yeah. So we will look at that for sure.

Hey, Luke, do we have an estimate as to where best case, worst case, they're going to break ground on the hotel? No, really the ball's in their court. They resubmitted their drawings actually based on the most recent comments. I believe, Thursday of last week. So they're pretty fresh in the oven to take a look and hopefully we get them issued and turned around pretty quick.

And then it falls in their court as far as pulling the permit, paying their rather large capacity fees and permit fees and moving on from there. Are you also in your report tonight going to talk about the Dynamite Beer Company building when that's going to open? I am not. Do you have any idea when they're planning to open? I do not exactly, but they are, as evidenced from the local landmarks presentation, they're working quite extensively on that site. Thank you.

This is a multi-tenant commercial development just behind Starbucks. This, again, was in a previous report, we are awaiting their submittal of building plans for this project. I'll keep you apprised as they move forward with that. The live-work units that are just south of Town Hall here, they are currently in review. I believe we've got two of those buildings in review right now. I saw Steven looking at those earlier this week.

The API corporate office building which is just across the street here the old Leland Jazz Club they are nearing completion I believe they just started on the interior so they probably still a few months out from getting being done And obviously they still working some site work retention basins things like that The 32 apartment units just next to Stagecoach Village, they are nearing completion.

According to our building official, Adam Hicks, they looked- Pretty much done with one of the buildings. So it could be any time now that when we start issuing certificates of occupancy on those. They're still buttoning up some other buildings, but expect by the end of the year they'd have some certificates of occupancy issued for those. This is the Javelina, but not with a J crossing. That's still in site plan review.

I know our Our utilities director was looking at that recently as well, doing that plan review. Then Aldi, the Aldi property or development, it's the north side of Carefree Highway between 50th and 51st streets. Again, they purchased a hillside property on Black Mountain to preserve. That was done through resolution and the permits are ready to-I put ready to issue or issued Because that's where we're at. I believe we're ready to issue.

They just haven't come and picked them up yet to begin on that. This site is really the last outside of Black Mountain Marketplace, which we discussed earlier, the last really sizable commercial land to be had in Cave Creek in this area. We've got about four more parcels on the north side of Carefree Highway that are just-just standalone two-acre parcels that will be more probably infill that we'll see in the coming years develop, so not much.

And those actually have a specific-so Carefree Highway has a specific area plan that requires certain setbacks, certain landscape buffers, interior setbacks, cross-access. The specific area plan really is a zoning ordinance unto itself just for this strip of land between 48th Street and 53rd Street and Carefree Highway. So all development will have the same kind of look. Correct me if I'm wrong, so we've got about 90% of the commercial gone in that corridor of Carefree Highway, very little left.

That's accurate. Which, to my point earlier, I don't think we need to sweat it out too much about the setbacks. I mean, we can look at them, We're going to, but it's not like we have a ton of land left. We will when the state land comes. Maybe. We'll see. Luke, are we in control of the medians on Carefree Highway? We are not, except for, and I'm going to like, I'm like speaking in tongues through Hal's mind, correct.

So once you get past 48th, well, I don't know if, aren't we Cave Creek Road to 52nd Street? And then it's McDott after that? 48th Street, 748, center line of 56th is on. And do we have our consultants observing those medians or improving, is the better word, those medians? We have not looked at those in the past. Is that something you'd like us to- Yes. Free traffic lights. Free traffic lights, correct? So on to fun things, which I call other projects.

Other projects consist of this one, is the Jewel of the Creek. This is something that Hal and I worked together with, along with Bambi, looking at what has become an untenable situation, which is the parking that occurs at the Jewel in front of the old Norm Foster. Buster House.

And we started working with the homeowners and looking at a way to really re-develop that swath into more of a pick up and drop off lane and just a quick loading and unloading of passengers so that they can continue on north and park into the expanded Spur Cross Ranch parking area.

And we also extended the pathway on the shoulder out of the road for people to be able to walk up So you think about you know not to sound any certain way but the dad dropping off the kid and getting the stroller out getting the wife out and maybe the grandparents and getting them all on their way and then driving up and parking And then when they done at the Juul running up getting the car bringing it down and being able to pick them up And we also blocked off you can see kind of the ovals blocked off the old driveway to the foster residents I just call it the foster resident I don know And improving a new driveway access that's further up and actually mimics the trail riding facility so that there's, you know, access that's facing each other there.

So it's a much safer line of sight for us as well. So, like I said, HAL and Public Works were able to do this in June, July, and we've put signage up. I've indicated the pictures of the signage we've used. And just like we've stated to the homeowners, this is really a trying to break people of bad habits, double parking, parking inappropriately, blocking through access up to Spur Cross Ranch. And we know that it may take time to change people's behaviors. Signs may need to be added.

Sign wording may need to change, different things like that. So it's something that we'll continue to monitor, especially this season. It's kind of our trial pilot season to see what- Have the sheriff spend a Saturday out there and then give them tickets. Next is our rodeo grounds.

Just to give you a quick update with what we're doing out there, you see the sign that we just had minted that will go up on the marquee sign at the rodeo grounds, home of Cape Creek Rodeo Days and the Turquoise Circuit Finals Rodeo. We've got We've got our main gate installed. We've replaced a bunch of fencing and gates out there that are just too old and weathered and not in good shape. We've got our electrical audit. Our plans are 80%. We've routed those to APS.

We've also submitted our electric service upgrade permit with APS, waiting to hear back on their review, which I've heard is-might take a while, but we keep pestering I find them every couple of weeks. And then an update on the BLM patent issuance for the rodeo grounds. It's a topic of my standing meeting with Maricopa County Parks Director among ASLD and many other topics is this one.

What Hal was reporting to you earlier about studies, surveys, other work, ecological, environmental, all of those, it's the same with these. So we've got to do some environmental work, some different studies, and prepare. Luckily, since we have Logan Simpson firm in tow with the ASLD stuff, this is really nothing for them to put on their plate and do in addition to the 4,005-acre studies that they're already doing for us. So we should get all that paperwork to BLM.

I've reported earlier that the BLM caseworker for us took over for a retired former BLM caseworker for us, and he is much more eager to get this done and get kind of the stack of everything that was given to him off his desk, and I don't blame him. Desert Awareness Park wanted to report we've done some significant security upgrades up there. Those are some folks that were out there past hours of park operation, tried to do some light vandalism. We've got 24-hour video surveillance.

Obviously, the signs posted that there is surveillance operational. I also included the key code picture and safety barrier for the key code. We took the really cool gates to desert awareness and put them on an automatic closing mechanism that also is set by clock to close automatically at dusk and open automatically at sunset. The biggest thing that my facilities staff was able to do are the-really the seven pictures below.

We've added some pathways through Desert Awareness Park, kind of connecting and looping some different points of interest with the help of the Desert Awareness Committee. We haven't yet installed signage. They like to do interpretive signage at different elements. We have them. We just need to put them on posts and get them out there. So we should have that done next week, I'm told. The other thing is the bathrooms. The bathrooms were original vintage and had really shown their age and wear.

We went in and replaced all the fixtures, toilets, urinals, sinks, countertops. We also took all the metal siding down, sandblasted those, and did a rusted paint Finish on those We also did which was the and Terry idea almost a concrete sealant concrete sealant on the floors in there that give it a really nice look And it's not just concrete that stains and looks crummy after a while. So it's a really nice facelift for the Desert Awareness Park. And then community involvement.

In September, I was, I guess, reappointed to the Cave Creek Rodeo Days Board. So in the past, you know, year I've been attending as a liaison between the town and Cave Creek. And with members rolling off, they had asked if I'd be interested in serving again. As you know, my oldest is in college, and that was the deal I made with my wife is, let's get one out of the house before I start committing more time to those things. So here we are.

Then last Friday, I attended the Seat at the Table function at the Foothills Food Bank, which had the Holland Center, the library, different, you know, volunteer community organizations. I was actually there in a capacity with Cave Creek Rodeo Days because we signed up to be the bartenders for that event.

And the president of the Foothills Food Bank asked me to get up and talk to everyone there about how much we rely and depend on our nonprofits and our different community service actors, which you know is something very personal and meaningful to me as well. And then lastly, Tom McGuire, Catherine Royer, and Joe Friedman were at the Local Johnnies landmark dedication earlier this month as well. That was a very well attended event and a lot of fun.

We've got – I'm trying to think what is upcoming. I don't think this slide covers it. Anyway, this is a little bit about local Johnnies. And then also, the city sometimes did a great write-up about a program that we're rolling out this tourist season for the Passport Program, which is associated with local landmarks. There's a card that you can get at either the Cave Creek Visitor Center or the Cave Creek Museum.

There's ten locations on the back that have a little trivia tidbit, and if you answer those, we're going to play kind of loose and fast with the rules on whether or not you have to answer all ten or get all ten correctly or just make an effort to do a couple. You can come back and get a piece of swag, a little Cave Creek, Town of Cave Creek memorabilia to take home. So, and that's all I have. Thank you, Luke. A lot of stuff on there. A lot of good stuff.

So thank you for your hard work and your dedication to the town and the rodeo board. Thank you, Mayor. Congratulations. When is the Morning Star Trail going to be open? The Morning Star Trail. So council awarded that contract. I believe the contract was routed today for signatures. I think it's in our town attorney's mailbox once that's signed. We anticipate moving forward with that pretty quickly.

Our trail contractor is actually in town right now working on repairing a lot of the washout we've sustained along the Spur Cross Road Trail. So once those projects are tied up, we intend to wrap them right into the morning. Is there an estimated time when it's going to be complete? Per the terms of the easement with the owner, it has to be complete before December 31st. Yeah. So, Luke, I know you lost a staff member. How are you managing without him and anybody in sight to replace him?

We are managing. You know, I kind of told staff, I went back to 2020 when we were, you know, in kind of when Ian went out of service for us and our staff was smaller than it is probably right now. We actually set a town record for cases administered and entitlements, you know, all those types of cases, big cases, not, you know, just someone wants to put a chicken coop in. We're talking a lot of stuff. So I said, you know, it could be worse. And we're figuring it out.

We currently have an intern that we just started two weeks ago, Devin Ray. If you have a chance to come by and meet him, Air Force veteran. He's wrapping up. Because he went into the – enlisted in the Air Force out of high school, he's kind of a late to college person. So he's wrapping up his undergraduate degree at ASU, background in GIS, which is the mapping tool that we use, which Eric was very, very good at. So we'll see. It's a six-month internship.

I started as a six-month intern with the town. We'll see what opportunities So, that's the opportunity that yields and just kind of go from there. Okay. And then finally, we have some openings coming up on the plan commission, correct? Yes. There are three commission terms that expire at the end of this year. Two of those members have submitted their application to be reappointed for another term, and one has declined to continue consideration in serving.

To my knowledge, I believe we've had one additional application filed. We've got an ad in the paper. I've talked to a few different members of the community to gauge their level of interest that I think would be a good fit. And we'll see what comes up. How long are the terms? The terms are a two-year term. All three of them are two-year terms? Yeah, let me think. So we've got three that expire in 26, two that expire in 27. So it's through December of 29. So they're all three?

So seven, eight, yeah. Seven, eight, nine. So you do have publicized? Yes, ma'am. Very good. Anything else from council? Thank you, Luke. And that completes our agenda tonight. Any objection to adjourning? Meeting adjourned.