Flagstaff BAC Reviews $26M Butler Avenue Overhaul, Weighs Micromobility Code Overhaul, and Faces Public Safety Ballot Concerns

here. Sure. Um, so I guess we start with call to order. We don't have to read that. We just say we're here. Call to order is started and then start with a roll call. Uh, Kevin Hayes here, Ben Hanks, Mark here. Great sharp here. Admire Valerie here. Hi. Sorry. Sorry, doesn't matter. Awesome. And then city staff Carlton Johnson. We just did the Adam man. Let's do a quick introduction on Adam. So, he's our our new transportation planner. Okay. Yeah. Hi everyone. Nice to meet you.

Um I just started in August. So, um I'm originally from Arkansas, but um I went to college in Texas and I got my masters of urban planning from Texas A&M there. Awesome. And uh now I moved here. So, uh much better weather. So, uh yeah, glad to glad to be here and get to know everyone. Did you move here just for the job? Yes. Oh, cool. So glad. Do you love bicycles yet? I need to I need more practice. We'll get you one. Exactly. All right. Uh D. Williams. Jeff Bin. Is he online? Nobody's online.

Everyone's in person. Jeff, just as we called your name, you walked right in the door. Sure. Uh Ben Marert, uh city capital improvements project manager. Heidi Heidi Hansen. I'm the economic talent director for the city of Flagstaff. And so I'll be giving you a little presentation um later. Get there. Awesome. So we move to the next item, public comment. Um at this time, any members of the public can address the commission on a subject within the commission's jurisdiction.

So we have any public comments? My public comment. Um, I'm gonna introduce myself really quick. Um, I'm Ava Aaliyah. I am the Monttoyer Fellowplanning intern at Metroplan. Right now, I'm filling in for Kim Austin. Uh, we wanted to let you guys know about an opportunity that Metro Plan is having right now. Um, we conduct school observations every single year um at the 18 schools around Flagstaff and we are starting our observations next week.

So, we wanted to present to your guys' committee if any of you are interested in volunteering. We have a variety of slots, mostly Tuesday through Thursday mornings for two weeks. Um, I have a form you could fill out or you could come talk to me after the meeting. I'm planning on staying. If you are interested in volunteering, actually um signed up, but I don't know if I ever got any emails with specific instructions. Is that coming? What is your name? Valerie. I saw you on there.

We will send you an email coming up. Okay, cool. Thank you. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Yeah. Any other public comments? Moving along. All right, we're going. Next agenda item is approval of minutes. We'll start with the approval of the May 21st meeting minutes. Did they all get a chance to look at them? I didn't read them. I browsed mine just recently. Okay. So, uh can we uh is there anyone interested in uh doing a motion to approve the minutes? That's what we do, right? Okay. Awesome.

I'd like to make a motion to approve about that. So, and then do we get a second? Second. All do we do all in favor? All in favor? I. Any opposed? Great. Awesome. Next item. Uh, approval of the July meeting minutes. So, did you all get a chance to read the July? Okay. Vote on those if I wasn't here at that meeting. I don't Okay. Okay. Okay. They looked great. Yeah, I looked at them as well, too. I thought they were great. I didn't see any issues in them.

Um, anyone want to make a motion to approve the July minutes? Make a motion to approve the July minutes. Great. Uh, all in favor? Any nays? No. Awesome. Right. Item five, action items. It seems like there aren't any on the agenda. That makes sense. Yeah. Nothing that we're voting on. Kind of think that's how it So then the next item is uh Prop 404, Prop 405 briefing. Is that even to you? How do you take that? Yeah.

Um, normally there's a huge team that is presenting on this, but they're in the actually the other room and they're giving the 45minute version. So, I'll spare you that 45 minute version and I'm going to probably get through this in 15 minutes and if you have any questions um just interrupt me or ask me after, but um basically the um if you don't mind, I'm going to read this first paragraph because I think it's really important for me not to miss how we got here.

And so, city council discussed public safety needs during their budget retreats in January of 2025 and supported the exploration of a ballot measure and a citizens committee in September of 2025. City staff met with the citizen committee members from November 2025 through May of 2026. And I can tell you I was on every single one of those meetings and it was a very very large cit citizen committee group that got us to this point.

Um, this led to the committee's recommendation of bringing a sales tax measure as well as a bond measure to the ballot in November, which will be on November 3rd. And what this will do is it will support public safety, which we're including as fire, which is structure fire, as well as wildland fire, aircraft rescue firefighting, which is our firefighting team out at the airport that I hope you fly out of. um our police department and then our emergency management group.

And a lot of people don't even know that we have an emergency management group, but we do. And those are the people that organize us in an emergency. And they actually get all of those core groups together to um decide how are we going to manage messaging if there is a wildfire, how are we going to manage if there was a um rail derailment, things like that.

And so, uh, it's important to bring all these groups together when we're talking about what does public safety mean for a city like Flagstaff. So, we decided to break this up or the citizen committee rather decided to break this up into two different propositions. And the first proposition is Prop 404, which involves the sales tax um, which will go to the ballot. And that sales tax is a 0.5% which is half a cent for every dollar. um which is what we're asking the voters on November 11th.

And what that would do is it would give about an average of $18.2 million a year to public safety on a variety of different needs, which I'll go over a few of those for the next 15 years. Whenever something like a sales tax um goes to the ballot, it's normally for a length of time.

And it's normally some people have been asking like why isn't it just forever and and it ends in 15 because we want to be able to let voters know that we will assess how it's going if they don't like how it's going and they want things to be used in different areas then they have a chance to have it back on the ballot to renew it. And I think if you're familiar with the bed and beverage tax, it was renewed um two years ago, the last ballot um for another 15 years.

So, I just want to throw that out that you don't just get it for ever and it never ends. So, it will come back to the ballot if it were um advanced. So, a little bit to to understand that we are actually below the national average on what our sales tax looks like as a city. Right now, we're at 2.486%. This would move us to 2.986%. And many cities our size are well over 3%. So we're still below the threshold of what's a standard sales tax.

Um also um what this sales tax will go to is funding uh public safety personnel, specialized equipment, and more supplies. What a bond can't do is um support personnel and staffing. You can't pay through pay them through. That's why um the bond will serve a different purpose that I'll get into. Another thing that's really really um important to know is that 37% of this tax is paid for by the visitor. So um basically it's not just the residents that are having to to manage um the tax.

And some of the things that I think are very important for you to know um on a sales tax like this is there are some things that it um does apply to and some things that it does not apply to. So, for instance, um it applies to items like dining bills and commodities like if you were to buy a refrigerator. It does not apply to food at a grocery store or your residential rent. So, I know housing is already a housing crisis in the city. It does not create a further crisis in the city.

Um, another example is if you were to purchase a $50,000 vehicle, um, 250 you will have to spend $250 more for that vehicle cuz it does apply to large um, purchases like that. If you were to eat fast food out and let's say your bill was $21, it would it would cost you 11 cents more for that $21. But if you were to go buy a gallon of milk, and I can tell you I buy that every week and it's $4.59 for instance, it is not going to be anything but $4.59.

It is not going to be onto your commercial or groceries. And then if your apartment rent was, you know, $2,500 a month, it's still $2,500 a month. It's not going to be um putting the tax on your landlord, therefore putting the tax on you. So, it's really important that it has a lot to do with um those everyday uh adventures that you have just like a visitor and not the the things that are already burning the city as it is.

Um so then when we move on to Prop 405, the general obligation bond, uh they're working on a 40 $40 million general obligation bond. This will be supplemented by a 15 million develop 15 million from the development impact fee revenue and then funding goes to public safety facility construction equipment and more vehicles. And I can share even what all that means. For instance, um we would be looking at having another fire station.

We have a lot going on with wild and fire and we don't have the the the uh facility to take care of all of that. Um we also want to be able to make sure that when something happens in our community that we're the first responders instead of having to rely on a lot of our outlying cities to help support us um through that wild wildfire. Um, I think that's kind of the crux of it.

And I just wanted you to know that there is a um QR code that was sent to you on the flyer that Carlton gave you, but you can also just go to public safety ballot.com for more information um before you go and vote in no November 3rd. And I I can tell you that I can only educate you educate you on these ballots. I can't advocate for those.

But what I can say to you is if you're not a registered voter, um it's time to get registered because not only do we have our two props, but Flagstaff Unified School District has two props that will be on the ballot as well. And I think it's really a great time to participate if you're able to vote within um the city on this election. Not to mention what we have going with council.

We have three seats that are coming up on the city council as well as the mayor's position, although she's running unopposed, but we have six people right now that are currently um working to get three of the council seats. So, I'm not sure how much you all follow that, but it is going to be a very active ballot um November 3rd. If I can answer any other questions, I'd be happy to. I didn't want to take over all of Carlton's meeting. October 5th is the voting registration deadline. Excuse me.

October 5th is the voting. Well, thank you. T, did you hear her? Uh, yes. So, so please um make sure that you can either get your ballot um mailed to you. You can do it that way or you can actually go to the polls that day and there'll be lots of um areas that will um accommodate you.

I will tell you, um, until I started working at the city, I probably didn't get as actively involved in in worrying about things like this, but I will tell you, it is super important, especially when you have this many things being decided, um, to make sure that you're as educated as possible with where you go and vote. So, I hope that you'll consider that. Do I have any questions? Yeah, thanks, Heidi. And I do appreciate the call to vote. It's so important.

Um, did you have any specific objectives that you wanted us like specifically as the BAC to know? Did any of this directly affect active transportation transportation mortality? Basically, some of the things. So, for instance, I and I I shouldn't have neglected saying this to you, um, but 46% of the city's general fund pays for public safety currently. And we people are saying, well, why do you need to to go and have this out on the ballot.

Well, since the recession in 2008, things have just gotten behind. Doesn't mean that that the city stopped funding public safety because that would be insane. But they just not have not been able to keep up the pace of of doing that. And this is happening.

I think if you even went and Googled this, I know that if you went and Googled this, you would see that other cities have already adopted a similar sales tax to help with their public safety group because if you spend all of your general fund just supporting a group like public safety, then all the other groups um all the other divisions and the very important things that happen, well, transportation and all that, um would fall behind as well.

So, what we're trying to do is to get back up up to speed up to 2008 levels. Some of the things that um are going to be paid for through this tax. Um and I can tell you there is um for for the fire department, it's going to be um of course more staffing of of uh firefighters. the facility that I was saying another fire a fire station or is that a residential or like wildland? It's going to be for wildland. Okay. Yeah.

And then is that in the area by JWP that we have already like built out for like residents? Like it's already planned out right? Already planned out. Yeah. Has it just yet? Say that again. Like isn't there an area where a developer we were expecting a developer to come in and build neighborhoods. Is that the areas some of the areas we're talking about? I think that's where the fire department Yeah. Cuz right now wildland is actually on the airport and they they really shouldn't be located there.

Okay. And so we are trying to find them a successful home but also be able to utilize it as a regular fire station as well. Okay, good question. Um, all right. So I get I guess to reiterate my first question, the answer is if we have this dedicated funding towards the broad category of public safety, then there are we can free up more money in the general fund budget for the things that we care about.

Theoretically, I would like to say that it wouldn't free it up, but what it wouldn't do is add more additional burden to the general fund to try to be able to continue to um take care of these things. Um I was on the budget team for four years and I can tell you the color of money is really important thing to understand. And so some of the other areas, the different divisions that we have at the city and and we have, you can always get the color of money document if you ever want to look at it.

We do it every budget retreat. Some of them have other funding sources to be able to sustain growth, but I will tell you public safety does not. And so that is why we've gotten to the point where we're at. And it does take a lot of resource from the general fund. So, I don't want to tell you that it will reduce what they get from the general fund, but what it will hopefully do is not um have to have the general fund take care of those increases.

Um, I think the concern that I've seen a lot out and about is that public safety is very broad and there's a lot of concerns that some of these specialized equipments I mean could be surveillance technologies like there's no policy on that I'm aware of about like privacy and that some of that is not going to be surveillance stuff that's going to be coordinating with IC agents and people don't are very distrustful of that right now. Is that something that you guys have planned on addressing?

And I will tell you this has nothing to do with um us getting into flot cameras. It has nothing to do with supporting an ICE organization that we know has come into Flagstaff. This is completely separate. And I will tell you our city council would have anything like that would have to go and be agendaized at on a council agenda and it would have to go through our city council. There would be public input like you can't believe.

But I will tell you the group that is working on this um has no intention of that being what this is used for. I mean if that could be further shown I love that idea. Yeah. Um I also just like as a general poet person that's my last thing. Um, I would push back on the messaging that 404 doesn't like exacerbate the housing crisis because things like buying a refrigerator are part of housing, right? You know, you need to buy things to live in a home.

And so, if all of those daily things like a refrigerator are going to cost money, it it feels a little that argument falls a little flat to me. That's a good comment and I and I can appreciate it. I think the reason they use that one is that you don't have to buy them often and it's a little bit different.

Someone wants, you know, if you go to a fast food restaurant, you know, quite regularly or whatever, you probably a little bit more worried about what's that going to do to me every time I go and do that type of purchase. But I I love that comment and I will definitely share that with the rest of the team. Love that. Appreciate it. There any other questions? All right. If there are any other questions because um honestly the abridged version um I will um happy to answer those.

Uh they can go through Carlton and then also there are other times that the bigger group will be actually presenting um to some other commissions and if you want to even come as a public participate to listen to the big 40inut version or something we will definitely let um Carlton know those dates as well. You good? Well, you guys were an easy group, so I'm tell right now. Last night was hard. There's a lot. Um, I appreciate um this and I appreciate what you you do for the community.

I don't know if that you economic vitality. We uh have the airport, we have tourism and visitor services, we have beautifification, arts and sciences, parking, airport, and the libraries, which are city and county. So, um everything that I do touches what you're here doing. So, if you ever uh have any um comments or questions for me, I I hope that you'll just ask Carlton for my information and reach out to me. Thank you. I appreciate your time. Thank you. Thank you. Discussion item.

Appreciate it. All right. Uh, next item on the agenda, micro mobility policy comparison. That would be me. He's just jumping right in. I love the number of like definitions that they have. like that's our there are and uh that's something you'll see if you look in the micromobility is there's always more and more um always or you can share or you can log in other Yeah, swap. There's a projection. That's the good screen.

And um I'll start this by saying this is not a very like formal presentation or anything, but um sort of where this kind of came about is the city has had um the shared micromobility requests for proposals in the works for a long time. Um and as we were looking at that, we kind of thought that it would go handinhand with the update to Flaff's current bicycle and microobility codes. um which did are from 2019 which in microobility terms that's a long time ago.

Um so kind of what I've done here is I've gone through and I've looked at the state different state regulations. So, what are the states doing when it comes for microobility um regulation now? And then what are some of the other cities doing um around the state for micromobility regulation?

And then I'll kind of go through those and just kind of present sort of what I found and then at the end I'll have some maybe some things that Flagstaff might be looking to eventually add to our code as part of this um project. So, get into this. Okay. So, Arizona State Regulations, they have a lot of different definitions. Um, I'm not going to go into any of them, but if you have a question about any of the definitions, please stop me.

And I I have them linked at the end of the PowerPoint with the actual wording of the definitions. So, um, we can cover that. Um, so stop me or we can do that at the end. It doesn't matter. But um just for time purposes, I'll avoid the definitions for right now. The only other rules that um the state of Arizona has regarding microobility are these uh five bullet points over here, which are so not very many um for the most part.

They mostly have to do with having having a unique ID number um in considering things as pedestrians. But other than that, it's pretty wide open up to the local jurisdictions to decide how they want to regulate micro mobility. So that last bullet that is interesting to me. So ebikes or electric standup scooters are considered bikes. Um but by considered bikes it means have all the applicable rights of bicyclists. Okay. For the most part. Um and these are all subject to local.

Uh I think local actually can override these if they want but uh by considered bikes it's they have the applicable rights of bikes. As far as other states um New Jersey pretty much everyone hates what New Jersey has done from what I've seen. Uh they want you to register any ebike. Uh you must have yeah insurance and get a license from the state for any sort of micro mobility be able to use it legally. So yes they are very strict.

Um no riders under 15 how they um California is pretty similar to Arizona. I only bring them in just because they've been doing some pilot programs which I thought was kind of interesting. Um, and Massachusetts there's this b they've kind of gone away from the definitions and they've moved into more speed based categories.

So they're they're grouping different devices by speeds and they're basically saying if you go this fast here's what you can do if you go this um which I guess an attempt to make it more simple which um makes sense to me I think um that they've moved less towards definitions um and more towards speedbased categories but um just some context um that all the states are basically all doing a lot of different things um right now and there's no really one way um that anyone is using at least at this point.

Um just before I get into the local ordinances, this is what Flaff currently has. Um real quickly, uh bikes and ebikes can pretty much go anywhere unless if you're a class 3 ebike, you're restricted a little bit. Um scooters can find I don't know. Um, you can see the chart here, but um, well, stand up scooters not allowed on sidewalks. Yes, but bikes are, but this is where Flagstaff currently is, and I'll I'll go into that into more detail, so I'll move on.

But, uh, yes, as I mentioned, Flagstaff's current ordinance is from 2019. Um, pretty pretty late. So I I picked Himpy and Gilbert as sort of examples because they both have updated their micromobility codes um this year 2026. Um so now I'm going to go through sort of some of the at least the comparison between them. Um and I've groups the different rule categories. I have eight different categories here. So we'll go through each of these um one by one. Um definitions.

Um Flagstaff has some definitions that are not in the state um definitions which is interesting. Um I have those linked here too if there's any ever a question on how city defines those. Um Tempe has they have a a interesting definition in here where they define um they separate groups into humanpowered or non-human powered which um makes it easier for you to read through the ordinance. So you can group a lot of the different devices together.

Um uh Gilbert refers straight back to the Arizona um regulations. Uh okay, moving on. Um the sidewalks, Flagstaff doesn't have a lot of restrictions when it comes to sidewalks. Um at least other rules, we just say class one and two ebikes are allowed. Um the electrical assisted mobility devices are allowed. And that that's like a segue or a hoverboard, something like that. Um like real vehicles. Uh the only other rule that Flagstaff has is that you should yield to pedestrians, but that's it.

Um Tempy actually um I've when I was going back over this today for presenting, I actually realized that I misinterpreted Tempy's ordinance. It's actually stricter than I thought. um they don't want anyone on the sidewalk unless um the the road that's next to it has a speed limit greater than 25 miles per hour and there's not a bike lane. Um other than that uh bikes bikes and like ebikes and anything they don't want you on the sidewalk.

Um if and additionally um nonhuman powered devices so like ebike and that they want uh you can't use a motor on the sidewalk is their rule. Um so I I I can update this but as I currently have it on there that's a little incorrect. It's stricter. Um, and the other important thing they have, they have a speed limit of 10 miles per hour on um speed limit uh on sidewalks and they want you to only go 5 miles per hour if you're passing testing rule.

Um, Gilbert's uh let's see, I'll point out speed limit of 15 miles per hour is what they have. Um, and both of them don't want you riding against the flow of the street traffic. When it comes to paths and trails, Flagstaff has an interesting restriction up here. Um, most things are allowed except uh we have this rule where you don't want scooters. Scooters are only allowed on paved foots, which is interesting. Um, and also the Arizona Trail and Nate Avery Trail and Buffalo Park Trail.

Um, we don't want Yeah. No motorized devices except for the electric personal assisted mobility devices. Um, which is an interesting thing there. Um, Tempy, uh, they have a speed limit of 15 miles per hour on trails. Um, they still have the 5 miles per hour when passing rule, which seems, um, really slow. Um, and they have a Does it Does that mean you must pass at 5 miles or you They want you to slow down to 5 miles an hour whenever you're passing anyone.

So if someone's going 10 and you're going 15, yes, you can never pass them. I mean, not how the rule is written. I know it's I think they're I think that's for pedestrians probably. It's probably I don't know that it doesn't explicitly say that but that is the only thing that makes sense to me. Clarify that. Yeah. Still don't walk too fast, right? Yeah. You better not be sprinting. Uh yeah, Gilbert also they they're pretty much the same. Um they have a 15 miles per hour, too.

vehicle vehicle lanes and bike lanes. We don't have any rules when it comes to bike lanes or vehicle lanes. Um, and everything is allowed. Uh, for Tempy, they want you to go speed limit of 28 miles per hour or whatever the posted speed limit is, which whichever is the lowest one. So, they don't want any any microobility devices going over 28 miles per hour on a road or a bike lane. Um, Gilbert they Yes, they don't want you in the vehicle lane if there are sidewalks and bike lanes available.

Um, if the speed limit is greater than 25 miles hour. Uh, so that's an interesting rule there. Hold on, I want to read that again. Okay. Uh, yeah. So basically, would you want to be in the vehicle lane if you have a bike lane and everyone else is going 30 miles an hour? I mean, I guess the purpose of to try to stop a bike from doing that and blocking traffic. Doesn't seem like anyone would want to do that, right? I wonder if they had an incident. Yeah.

And that riding against the flow of traffic is problematic. Yes. of where we have all of our multiple dual lane roads that then go away, right? We have a dual lane 10-ft path that then is gone, but you're going the opposite direction. So, you're immediately going the opposite flow of traffic for us a little bit in a lot of this town. You know what I mean? Cuz yes, it's not done yet.

Yeah, but it seems like if you It says prohibited in vehicle lanes when the speed limits greater than 25, but if you're going to make a a lefthand turn, you've got to violate that rule. That's good. Yeah, because you got to move across. Yeah, that's a good point. I'm probably It's They probably wouldn't. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm just strictly Yeah, let's not copy that one. Um, okay. Yeah, helmet restriction.

This is one of the things Spike staff at least seems to me is one of the farthest behind on age restrictions in particular. Um, we don't have the only restriction we have is if you're under 18, you should wear a helmet. um temp. So remember, they don't want anyone riding on a sidewalk, but they'll let minors ride on a sidewalk um with parent or guardian consent. Um the yes, they don't want anyone younger than 16 operating a class 3 ebike or similar device.

And that from what I've seen looking at other ordinances, that seems to be a pretty common restriction that a lot of cities have put into place. Um um Gilbert even goes further. They say if you're under 12, they don't want you on any sort of um mobility device. Yeah, that's funny cuz nobody follows that rule. I've been down a Gilbert a lot of Yeah. I don't know. I mean, this is a new rule, but yeah.

I mean, yeah, we can get into this at the end, but I don't know if the purpose of a lot of these is maybe not for them to be able to enforce every single one of them, but just to sort of set a standard. Yeah. Right. Um, yeah, they have the same rule about class 3 ebike and under 16. Um, and they don't want anyone under 18 being sold a class 3 ebike. Um, they have a helmet rule too. Um, thing here, Tempy wants all ebikes to have a speedometer on them.

Um, which I guess makes sense because they have speed limits in place, so they want people to know how fast they're going. Um, and Gilbert has uh Gilbert has a rule here. It says no alterations that affect safe operation of a device. So, they don't want you uh going crazy with you tinkering. Um, I'll point out under enforcement, the Tempy rule is interesting.

Um they say under suspicion of any violation that any non-human powered device may be inspected by police to determine its legal classification. Um so that would be like it's hard to tell whether it's a class two or three bike or whatever from the driving by. So, I guess they're allowing um police on a stop to in order to I guess confiscate the device or at least inspect it to make figure out what level it falls under. So, and therefore what rules apply.

Um you'll they let you off on their first traffic violation um if you take a safety course administered by them for micromobility. Um, and this is the last one. Um, miscellaneous. And these are pretty consistent across all of them for the most part. Uh, yeah. Ride to the right. Don't carry more people. Don't attach to another vehicle. Um, don't like have your hands free. You can operate the device.

Um, Tempe doesn't want you um using non-human powered vehicles in city parking structures or city parks unless you're on a trail. Um, which that that was a weird one to me that stood out. Yeah. Um, so I'll move past that. Um most one thing did not come up in any of those and that's uh emot uh sort of I had a hard time almost finding a definition for these. Um it doesn't seem like a lot of places really define them very well. What what is an emoto?

Um, so according to this, an emoto is, yeah, the definition I found, anything that's over 750 watts or capable of a top speed of over more than 28 miles per hour. So, if you sort of think about the ebike scale, class one, two, and three, this would be above class, anything above class 3, uh, would kind of fall under emoto. Um, is this like an electric dirt bike? Yeah, electric bike would fit into that category. All ebikes are over those wattages nowadays.

I mean, you can get those at Best Buy, right? Those ebikes are Are they really? Yeah, they're I mean, batteries are incrementally better. So, that's interesting. Mhm. Um, this is sort of the hot thing in micromobility though is like kids dipping around on 40 mile per hour devices and things and uh a lot of cities are sort of coming to the game and they want to shut that down as much as they can. Um, uh, so emoto is part of that and emoto is just one term for it. You could use other words.

Um, it's interesting. But, uh, I'll point out a lot of cities are they generally treat anything that falls under this category is like an actual vehicle and you need a license and registration to use it. Um, okay. So based on all that, um, here are some of the things I've sort of brought out as maybe discussion items or things that may eventually like want to be considered when we update the flag staff's code. These are things that might be in it or at least be talked about. Um, definitions.

I think those would be useful definitions to add um to make sure uh more things to clear here. Um sidewalk regulations, we don't have a regulation right now on sidewalks that you have to give a audible signal on when passing. We only have that on multi-use trails. Um so that seems like something that might be useful to be added. um the the rule about following the direction of street or sidewalk traffic. Both of the other three cities that I looked at had that.

I think there's a little bit of a gray area on that one. Um when I was looking through this, I was thinking about there's a spot where I go against traffic because it would save me from having to cross a street, cross the street, go this way, cross the street again. I just go on the sidewalk against traffic for a little bit and like Kevin was saying like one way is to disappear.

So I I mean at face value it makes a lot of sense but yeah in an ideal world when all of those like paths are built the way we want them to be but I'm less excited about that one. Yeah. Yeah. On like Fourth Street, you know, you have to cross like you have to go through that roundabout and then you're going to have to like walk on the opposite side. Yeah, it's good to hear. Um, speed limits, which I heard were controversial the last time this was done.

Um, but they seem a lot of places seem to be have putting them in place for sidewalks and uh, Richmond Hills. Personally, I think it's where we have to go. I mean, because I've seen some of those kids going 40 on those roads, but I've also seen it bikers going down a hill going 40 at those roads, too. I mean it's if the speed limit's up, it's up for everybody.

So, yeah, I I do think it gives, you know, if a police officer, if somebody's acting completely unsafe, they pull them over, they talk to them, and they're like, "Well, there's no rules." So, it's a good point about the hills, like Yeah. going downhill like Yeah. a really fun hill. Yeah. Yeah. There's certain spots I know where there's they're they're, you know, hitting some serious speed and then trying to cross a line, you know, right? And it's a bike or an ebike, doesn't matter.

But if you're going 30, you know, it's not safe, right? Because cars are going to turn to you and, you know, it's up to you to be careful with that. But, but, um, it's my personal opinion. Yeah. Yeah, it's tough with speed limits because it's kind of, you know, that's something that's not really going to it's really hard to enforce. Like you're not going to have a radar gun on bikes going by for police. Um, but a lot of people still have been putting into the play putting those into place.

And I assume that's more of like setting an expectation rather than actually trying to catch every single person violating the the ordinance. Um, but I mean I can imagine like if this comes up in a a public meeting or something that you see like, oh, if I go over 10 miles an hour, like suddenly I'm breaking the law. That's um a big deal. So, I can see how uh that role can be controversial uh for multi-use paths and trails. Um yeah, speed limits.

What another thing to consider is you could implement the speed limit um only when near others is another option. Um rather than just the flat speed limit to say like if you're riding past someone or near other people, then that's when the speed limit applies. But if you're on a trail like at 4 in the morning or whatever and there's no one out, then maybe the speed limit doesn't apply. Going down those hills. turning. Yeah. Turn near a tree and then there's somebody standing there. Yeah.

And I think there's places in town though where it's confusing what when it's a multi-use path and when it's a sidewalk, right? So that's a really good point. Right. Yeah. I have been shaken at by people for riding my bike on foot straight. You probably got that. Yeah. Oh, before we go off from that one, I think like to that point that it's hard to tell what's a futz and what's a sidewalk. I don't like that e- scooters are not allowed on sidewalks or unpaved futs.

If I were making the rules, I would consider electric scooters on all of those because there are it's hard to tell what's a sidewalk versus a fut. And sometimes a futs will go from paved to non-paved like in the same route. Like for me to get to University Heights, it goes from paved to unpaved to paved. So does that mean I wouldn't be allowed to do it because there's like a small chunk that's unpaved? Um, yeah. And I like to think of it as the safety end of it.

Like I don't want those scooters out in the street on the street or a onehe out on the street having to deal with traffic cuz they're not allowed the sidewalk in a certain area that I mean it doesn't sound very fun to be like doing this on like a little scooter. But I think we should allow it.

Basically anything except for like a gas powered motor I would well like also the futs I don't know anything about like dirt bikes or whatever but like if we consider the futs are sometimes like gateway paths to get to larger out in the wilderness paths. We should allow more types of bicycles there so people can use them or more types of vehicles there. So, like if you have a dirt bike, maybe you just I don't know. Can you can you just pedal it or Yeah, that's a legit question.

Like we want to promote using the futs. We want to open it as much as possible, but just don't use your smelly motors is what I would say. Did that make any sense? Yeah. Well, like those motors like like you said, mopeds are vehicles. They need plates. something that they would feel out on any of that stuff, but Right. Yeah. So, maybe not like a dirt bike, but like the mountain bikes I would love to see on a fluts, you know, cuz they're just getting their way out into the forest.

Yeah, just more inclusive. Okay. More things allowed on bus trails. Okay. U right now class 3D bikes they're not allowed on foot according to that's one of the rules and it's kind of difficult because there's a there are foots that are unpaved and way out kind of in the wilderness and then there's also like the one that follows Route 66 along that's part of the foot trail. Um and that's probably a commuter um path for the most part that's in the middle of the city.

Um, so there are there a variety of different foot trails. Um, I mean, could we propose allowing class 3s on foot trails? Yeah. I mean, people use class 3s as commuters. Yeah, they're they're already on the footstril. There's no doubt about that. And again, I think those classifications are changing significantly as technology changes. Like it's, you know what I mean? Because the class was about speed and, you know, assisting versus throttling and all that kind of stuff. But I don't know.

It's interesting to see where they where those classifications lie currently with technology right now. So, does that make sense? Like I don't know that they make a class one that's under 750 watts because I think it's harder to find a small battery like that, right? Batteries are like like So that's what it is. Okay. Um, same thing with the speed limit for like a vehicle lane and a bike lane. Um, yeah, that confuses me.

So, if I'm in the bike lane on Butler and Butler's currently what, 35, right? Are you saying I'm only allowed to go 28 in that lane or I got to get into the middle of the road if I'm on a Yes. And that but that may come in context where they don't want you one of those cities they didn't want you on the vehicle lane or the bike lane if the speed was that high at 45 to begin with. Um, yeah, that sounds weird.

But then there's the the left turn issue where you got to get, you know, if you got an obstacle, you know, garbage can or something in the lane, you know, there's always times when you're going to be moving out. Yeah. So, I think the implication, you know, it's like that that's the where they want you most of the time, but there's going to be times when you're going to have to get into the lane. Yeah. I think we would see push back from the under 12 cannot operate a nonhuman powered device.

The kids kids these days they want to be on their little scooters. Yeah. I have seen families riding Yeah. little ebikes down the 66 trail downtown. Yeah. You know, mom with the front and dad in the back and these kids on scooters having a great old time. Yeah. And if part of why we were trying to get a vendor is to increase or decrease vehicle miles traveled. Like I would rather a family rent those scooters than get an Uber to go a mile.

Um, I actually did like Gilbert that said you can't sell anyone under 16 a class 3D bike. Is that crazy? Under 18. 18. Yes. I don't know. Never mind.

I don't know if it's um these are so the restrictions we have here are kind of pulled from the other cities but um I know this is probably I would say age is probably the area where age and helmet restrictions probably the area where flag theft is lacking the most right now and um so we don't have to consider like just what the other cities have but just sort of what what else could all in there. Just in the interest of safety, I like the helmet required.

I like that you can't ride over 20 miles per hour. Not as excited about the two in the middle. Um the speedometer requirements for ebikes. Um, if we try to implement speed limits or something, would adding a speedometer requirement be something consider? I guess my question is like I mean most ebikes are going to come with a speedometer. I don't know if scooters do. Like I guess if that's something that would have to be an aftermarket edition versus most of them come with it.

I assume most of them just come with it, right? Yeah. I think it's reasonable though. I guess I wonder about no alterations because I'm an engineer. I know guys that have built their own bikes, right? So, I mean, or yeah, you're gonna as things wear out, you're going to change parts and stuff. That's So, that's kind of Yeah, I think the point of this one was more towards like manufactured bought bikes and like Yeah, souping them up or something, right? Yeah.

You have I have to update equipment and stuff at times. So, yeah. Long as you do it safely. I want to know what I guess I do. It's good to go. I want to know what the unsafe examples are, right? Like they made that rule for reason. Interesting to know about I mean that seems very reasonable that you can How do you define it? Like what is that like crazy bright headlights that blind everyone else around you? Yeah, it's very subjective.

But I mean, it's kind of just a general catch all rule that if somebody does something crazy, at least you have something to fight. That enforcement one scares me. I don't know that I like that. I think that should be more police, but us, right? We Huh. I don't love it. Yeah. I I like to say that one's not in my pay grade. I wouldn't even want to touch that. I don't know. Yeah. Right. I feel like it just is empowering them to stop bikers in a way that it's just not necessary. Maybe.

Well, but if it is, they would do it. I don't know that we need to put a notice in there. Right. If they needed to for safety reasons. Yeah. Do it, right? Their job allows them to do so. I don't know. I guess like in an accident. Yeah. When they're writing up the police report. But that is where we need Daniel. Where's Daniel? Right. I don't know that that sentence make will make a difference in do it anyway. I think it depend. Yeah.

I don't know how to demonstrate my bike's legal classification. I don't know. I know it's a class one because I bought it, but like I don't have like a card. The tag like a little bit of tag on the side. Oh, that I think they might all have, but I'm not sure about that. Yeah, but you can also buy those tags anywhere. Sure.

But would someone one thing I noticed that was pretty much absent from most of these was any sort of parking rules and I'm not sure if maybe this type of ordinance is the best place to put those ordinance but um like by the parking well yeah like where now this will go and the shared micromobility proposal. That'll be a big part of it. But this this would be for like personal devices. Um yeah, that's an interesting point.

Yeah, I I was a little surprised to not see any anything related to that in any of the ordinances I looked at. feel like it's reasonable to say you may not park your bike where it's obstructing flows of traffic. But in our same conversations, we hope have enough bike parking in this town, right? But you're putting it wherever you can. Yeah. You as a rule, no parking inside buildings in your ebikes, I believe it's Well, so any just came up with it.

Yeah, they just said no no no ebikes in dorms at all. No motorized electronic vehicles of any kind in any dorm area. So from my understanding it has significantly decreased the number of those vehicles which is not good. Yeah. So um for I guess fire problems is what they did it for. Yeah. year of fire, but they didn't give them other places to charge, right? Which was interesting. So, they canceled it without a I feel like alternative. Yeah.

All of this stuff is going to catch on fire as much as an ebike, right? Battery is a battery. Yeah. But the last thing is basically what do you do with anything that doesn't qualify? And this is like sort of we've hinted the future too whenever new things come out and they don't fit under any definition right?

Is it just a blanket ban on anything that doesn't fit a definition or or do you use the definition like emoto or something that's sort of like catchall for anything that's faster than a class three bike? Um, yeah, it's a really new stuff comes out all the time, right? In that regard, we're so different. But that's this is the last um thing I have besides the definitions. So yeah, that's why I liked the idea of speed is that it was a universal way to handle anything.

Yeah, that's sort of how the idea behind Massachusetts new rules and grouping of them might be like but a whole different Yeah. Um, well, this is stuff to think about. Um, I mean, so what I guess I'm hearing you say is that it's time for us to start looking at evaluating our 2019 policy, what might need to be changed and what needs to be in there, right? So that it can it can last a while without needing to be updated again. Yeah. So, what do y'all need to do to update it?

That's where we're at next. Yeah. Is this a subcommittee we need to start talking about or do we like what what is this what is the process we need? Yeah. Go go go through start at dates. We could I don't know if we've gotten that far like subcommittee or not or Jeff knows more. Yeah. I mean I could just I was around in 19 doing some of this.

So yeah, we spent some time here with the bicycle committee and just like tonight you guys tend to be more expansive like we like bikes here, we like bikes there. We get to the pedestrian advisory committee and they say we don't really like scooters on foots trails. That's where I came from. Yeah. So, so there'll be that. Yeah. And so we need to just work through that a little bit and then we'll do transportation commission eventually we'll go to city council. That's kind of that base process.

We don't have a time frame that we have to get this done in, but as Adam mentioned with the RFP for the shared micro micro mobility share program, it would be good to have these things kind of running nearly at the same time because undoubtedly if someone wants to push back on the RFP, they're going to pointed our code. Oh, your code's out. Dave, you don't even go. So, we want to just get ahead of those things. Okay.

Best we can, but we don't have a tight timeline, but yeah, in the next meeting or two, we we want to get you guys Okay. How best can we do you suggest we go to start that process? Tonight was the introduction. Um, we've got some notes, but maybe you're not even quite ready. You're not ready, I'm sure, to give us final.

Maybe maybe we just share the notes out to the team, make a note that everyone should start reading it and like I said, writing up opinions and then we can bring it up in next next agenda meeting. You know, we'll have Yeah, that sounds good. I think that works really well. Carlton, are we planning to do this with pedestrians next week? Yeah. Yeah. So, they'll get the first shot at it next week, too. Mhm. Great.

I mean, one of the places I see I've seen electric bikes more frequently is, you know, out mountain biking. And I'm just wonder does anybody rent electric mountain bikes in town and then people are going to, you know, rent them there and then want to get to the trail? You'd have to Yeah, they were doing tours, electric bike. Yeah, they used to have those Segway tours and stuff, too.

But I don't know if anybody's doing that, but he probably people will want that renting will want to know how to get to the trails that they can ride them. And I think we want to encourage them to, you know, not have to, well, you got to get in a car to drive to the trail that, you know, right? So, if you Yeah, maybe that's where we take out the class three restriction piece because I don't know if these rentals are class 3s, does that mean you're not allowed to do that?

Or you can do it, but you just have to ride as slow as a class one. Yeah, exactly. I mean, again, that's where I think like speed is a great Yeah, but I don't know. Speaking speaking for the city council um regarding the timing, it would I I think I guess I should speak for myself as a member of the city council. I think it would be good to have a public vetting process of draft regulations before we come to council and and have you know people coming to the podium. for three minutes.

Pro and con. I think if there were a way to get public review outside of our pedestrian and bicycle committees, I mean, we're good and this is very valuable, but if the pets and bicycle committees could come up with a draft, is there a way to get public input on a draft? Yeah, we can do that through the city website. can't remember the name that we're using these days, but okay. Um, yeah, we have we have that forum. Okay.

I I I think that would be helpful to get more public input before we bring it to the council as a item to be adopted. We do another survey like we did with the route. Uh, the routes. Awesome. So, it sounds like we have a path forward. So, we'll proceed on that end. And thank you, Adam, for that presentation. Yeah, good to have you here. That was great. Glad to be here. All right. Uh, next on the agenda, Butler AB, Fourth Street Design. The things you said, the KZ is not working, right?

Say Wi-Fi. It was like as we zoomed in and out were disappearing. I was hiding behind the tree. I have a tree. There's boyfriend share from Auto. Sure. You don't want to point. No, it doesn't work. That's fine. Also, I'm Ben Nicholas. I'm one of the transportation engineers that's working on the Butler Forth project with Burgess and Nightel. um were the prime consultant and then we have peak engineering sub consulting to do other parts of the project with us.

Um Carlton asked me to come and give an overview of the project and then hone in on some of the pedestrian bike infrastructure that were really getting some cool stuff in on here. So some of you may have seen the project before. Um hopefully some of you have given comment on it before. I think this is in advance of a public meeting we're doing next week that we want or next month. Yeah, that's that's kind of the reason for the time being here is there's a broader public meeting. October 15th.

Okay. 15th. Okay. It'll be at the Aquiplex uh starting about 5:00 pm on October 15th. There'll be more messaging on that websites, social media uh as we get closer to that date. Um, so the overall project it's improvements for off- streetet bike lanes and sidewalk improvements, two roundabouts and improvements to the interchange at I40 along Butler. So improvements start just west of the interchange and through a roundabout that will serve some of our commercial businesses over there.

provide some better access to bus stops through here. And me to zoom in and then a roundabout at Fourth Street to replace the traffic signal that's there. Okay. Start on focusing in on the east end where we have a little bit better developed design. The west end, we still have some design decisions that we're making as a team. So, we pick up with some bike ramps and bring the bike lanes off and on the street down here to a separated facility that will be stripe separated.

So, the sidewalk and bike lane will be at the same grade there um but separated with a 5ft landscape strip from the roadway. Okay. Um, on the south side of the road as you're approaching the roundabout, there is a tie-in to the foots trail here that will drop down into the riot flat. The no schwitzer wash spruce seems to be a combo of both spruce. Okay. Switzer drops down into the wash here and ties into the existing trail system over here. So, uh, so is that this is the wash right here?

The green is the wash where we're realigning it. Okay. And then the black is the trail where we're basically flip-flopping where those two things are in this design. Okay. Yeah. There's that existing aggregate trail there right now that crosses the wash a couple times and gets washed out quite frequently. So this is going up. This is poor street going up towards 66. Correct. Yes. Just trying to understand where Yeah. So the wash is currently going here, right? Yep. Okay. Crosses the road here.

So we're raising the grade of the road to get a box covert under the roundabout and the foots trail will actually go through that culvert to come out on this side. It comes over here to connect in and then connects in for these two over here at the street level. the separated facilities come up to the roundabout and then because we're just stripe separating these from an ADA perspective, it made the most sense to just end the separation and say, "Hey, everybody's sharing the same space.

Be careful." Great. Um, so we're looking at signing and striping strategies to handle that. You'll have at grade crossings on each leg of the roundabout that will have um they're signalized. They're not the stop control signalized, I believe. I think they're just doing flashing yellow. And so will we be not allowed into that roundabout. There don't seem to be Cheryls in the roundabout like what we do in Four Street, right? We can go ahead. I'm confused. This is at Fourth Street and Butler.

Yeah, I was thinking Fourth Street and Cedar. Yeah, sorry. I was answering another question. Um instead of Yeah, I don't know. I think that one and the aquiplex is there. In general, I would say an expert bike rider is always allowed to make use of a a vehicle lane. Okay. It's not prohibited, but it's also not going to be encouraged, I guess. Right. And I guess what I'm getting at is there a way to get on. Yes. Jump out there. Right.

If I'm in here and I want to go up to here and I get on that road to get on that be able to get in. Does that make sense? Or is it is it raised? Design int Yeah, it is raised. The design intention is that you would use the crosswalks to stop the crosswalk around it. I guess you could always get out of the ADA ramps to get in the lane if that's what you want to do. I mean, it's always nice to have bail opportunities. Yeah. You know what?

If you're accidentally in the traffic lane and you want to bail onto the bike lane, you know, you have no way of doing that until you get to the crosswalk. Just curious. Yeah. If it's 5:00 in the morning and there's no traffic, I'm going to do what Kevin's suggesting. Don't have that micromobility rule. Yeah, I do it at five. and going south on Fourth Street to some of this new development that's happening down here. We have the path continuing down.

Um same thing on the other side and ending where private development will be on that and handling that extension of sidewalk and trail there. And then just some improvements at the intersection. It's not shown in the aerial, but it is already built. Um, we need to install wider curb ramps there to be trail curb ramps instead of sidewalk curb ramps. All right. Similar concept going north on Fourth Street.

um except the trail drops off here into just sidewalk on the east side and we'll just go to non-separated facility normal foots trail on the west side and there are ramps to enter and exit from the bike lane there and it doesn't connect into the other uh it's so air there huh so there will be a spot of that's okay right a quarter mile or whatever before that. Well, no, I think everything's connected. What What part are you thinking about Kevin? Am I missing that peeps broken down or up?

Sidewalk would be continuous on the east side and the foot trail. Is there a sidewalk here now? Yes. Yeah. Oh, there is. Yeah. Connect to that. Yeah. Okay. Sidewalk continuous and then the bike lane will be on straight from there northbound. Okay, great. I guess I didn't. Thanks that the city of no gaps, right? Yeah. working on it. Love that. It's a great set. Okay, good. That makes me feel good. So then my next So you're is this our bikes going to be able to go both ways up here?

it will be striped for oneway bike or one traffic. Okay. So then you're wanting them to go down if they're going up and over to Fourth Street, right? Or they're going four street up all the way to the Route 66 trail, right? This is a multi-way, right? So can this be two-way? So they can, right? Then they don't even have to touch traffic at all. Does that make sense? To get all the way to the Route 66 trailway up and down Fourth Street because it's a foot.

So only on one side, but the concept is separated bikeways on. So they end up they'd have to be going this way and then cross the crosswalk. Cross this crosswalk to get up to go that way. Yeah. All the way through. It helps them that we do have a midblock crossing down here at Peak Point that will be also signalized.

So for traffic generators on the north side of the road that are going eastbound, they would be able to take the crossing here to go the right way on the sidewalk bike lane facility. Some approved bus pullouts. similar thing from an ADA perspective that signing and striping strategies to slow cyclists down as they're coming through here that they're going to be mingling with pedestrian traffic and folks standing around. Great.

And I went on PTO right around the time that the team was making decisions around this intersection in Carlton. If you know what was decided there. We have a final. We left it with Peak Engineering to uh do some homework, I guess we called it, and uh consider fitting the crosswalk sort of in the middle of that intersection where the median is for for I guess the name of the street is peak. Um yeah, to to see if that might work having the crosswalk from the middle. Yeah.

About where your cursor is. Okay. So you would be crossing east west and if you hit the median there, could the crosswalk uh get you across right there? Yeah. And that would be mainly predicated because an island's proposed maybe where their cursor is. Okay. To uh sort of a pork chopshaped island that that guarantees that that left turner is turning left. Yeah. Okay. So uh more to come on that design. uh nothing has been uh uh shown to us uh with that update.

Okay, that's where I had landed on it as well. But um still it would be the same concept though that it would be a signalized midblock crossing that would stop traffic for crossings and two more bus stops here. Pretty much the same thing going on through this part of the corridor with the separated bike lanes. And this roundabout is still in development. Um we're waiting on feedback from the city and then a couple more rounds of design iterations.

But it would be a subsamp handled similarly to the other one that the oneway traffic would end and it would be just shared space through these crosswalks um with islands and signals at each of those as well. And then and here at the TI, we were looking at shortening crossings here and adding some protected areas for pedestrians to hang out on this signal. So you'd have an island here that would have push buttons and then as well in the middle with nice little short crosswalks there.

And then there will be are there bike lanes on that road or no? Is that just a shared the current shared sidewalk? Is that what the thought was? Right. This is the underpass of I40, right? Yeah. It'll be the separated bike lane facility with the sidewalk here still. And this is So you'll increase that sidewalk. Mhm. Okay. It'll be like a 10 foot 11 foot 11 foot six foot bike or five foot bike lane and six foot sidewalk for 11 foot total facility.

And then this is still this is what's more in flux right now. Still kind of trying to figure out um scope of how far the city wants to take improvements on this one. But the current idea is that the separated bike lane would end here with a ramp and we would extend the bike lane striping down to where it currently drops off. down here and on the south side of the road.

Some combination of extending the bike lane striping to an appropriate place for the ramp to go to off streetet sidewalk and catch up to the facility at the interchange under I40 is being redone as part of this. The the vehicle the main vehicle thing is a dual left turns. So it's pushing everything out. It's not just tacking on sidewalk a double left turn. Yeah. We get to kind of start from scratch basically. Yeah. Continuing the full full bike way all the way through. Yeah. Yeah.

These purple lines are just the retaining walls that we're going to have to put in there to make all this fit. It's exciting. Underpass. It'll be up 17ish feet from the existing grade there. So when you're used to dropping into a hole, you barely will. I'm south on fourth. And then that the underpass folks about here on we were raising the road significantly to get that boxward under there. questions, comments, snide remarks. Um, and remind me on the um west side, does it line up?

So, we are going to get to the intersection with the interstate and then how far out does the other project go this way? Does it the other Butler Avenue project? Butler uh complete streets uh goes from Milton to approximately Sawmill. So, there's a bit of a gap between the two projects, but I mean, this is going to be enormous improvement. Yep. Yeah. And what's the timeline? Is that your favorite question?

The timeline, we currently show kind of an aggressive timeline, but we are going to need to uh acquire right ofway, and we're not definite on the timing of some of that. there is some Arizona state land out there. Uh so currently we're looking at getting into uh holding our public information meeting on October 15th. Uh and then getting into 90% uh designs at the same time as getting Seymar on board. So that'd be a construction manager at risk uh and getting input from that SeaR.

As far as you know, there be a lot of phasing issues and detour discussions and how can it be built without or as best as we can impacting traffic as as little as possible. So, that would be over the spring. Um, as as we're in those 90% stages, we could be acquiring some right of way and and finding out for ourselves whether it's, you know, the six to nine ninemonth version or is it going to be a two-year or longer version.

Uh so currently we're being aggressive and assuming it'll be just the six months to acquire the right of way. Uh and that would get us into uh already having the Semar on board going to 100% around April of 2027 and uh starting work on construction as soon as fall of 2027. But uh we do want to manage expectations and that is the aggressive schedule of everything falling into place perfectly.

Uh we've currently been um realizing a bit of a delay with our federal uh partners uh moving to move forward with the next stage of design. Uh we are getting some good progress on the Butler complete street area over the next few weeks. We expect that to come in to move us into that next stage of design. So, uh hopefully that translates to this one as well. This one currently has a $19 million build grant, uh which uh helps pay for construction.

Uh we already know the project's well over 26 million. We've already um promised as part of the grant that 7 million would be paid by local funds. Uh, in addition to that, there is a smart grant of about $2 million coming in. So, you get a lot of bang for your buck with these grants. Let's call it a $26 million project. And about 21 million is covered by grants. So, we're working as best we can to keep it progressing. Well, thank you guys.

I mean, it's going to be so great in such a death trap over there. And it is a large enough project that we expected to take more than one construction season. So, starting say fall of 2027, we could probably look at it taking until the fall of 2029. Gotcha. It would be good to have it in places that all that development goes in south of uh Butler there. Yes. Yes.

As JWP gets built and uh there will be a lot of lot of development and one one of the things I'm most excited is is uh reducing that interaction with large trucks on the on the east side of I40. uh putting a median in there. So if you are on the south side, make use of the roundabout to find your way back to I40 rather than, you know, I could see truckers becoming frustrated after 5 minutes waiting for their gap and deciding to just push through during the busy times on Butler.

Uh this will give them a roundabout that's sized appropriately for the largest uh type of vehicle you have. uh and and getting uh traffic maybe to be operating a lot more smoothly than what we see today. I love that, right? I mean, that's where they're all going to go and not That's great.

So is there any plan for the gap between Babage and when um this ends here like you said that between the um Butler complete streets and then this project is there any future plan for that section because like with the Ponderosa crossing coming in and all the development you know um that's kind of like you said there are a lot of gaps and so is there a plan for that so that when we're moving along I mean it's not like we just stop and skip that still have to go I was curious. Yeah.

Some maybe some crosswalk infrastructure in place or any kind of future conversations around that painting. It is. It's identified for the same facility type in active transportation master plan. It's not on the 5-year capital to do that. The Ponderosa crossing as you know. Yeah. that that brings you even closer to the end of this. So, if you're on the south side of the street, yeah, you're you're within a couple hundred feet from that.

If that goes through, they'll build that along their frontage. And then what what I'm hopeful is that can get you to there. And then if you like that facility type, you can use the underpass under Butler and get up to the Route 66 trail. Unless the thing you're trying to get to is within that gap. But never. Yeah eventually it's it's not up to be the very next thing to close that whole rest of it though. is this section, you know, gives me chills. The X, the butler X. Yeah.

Trying to go straight. Yeah, that's the section I'm talking. Yeah, that's the clear going. Which what maneuver are you doing? We're here trying to go straight. I have to go here and you have to go three lanes over on those two left turns without any painting or anything. So you're just kind of hoping nobody's going or on their phone. Got to you'll do you'll take the lane in your bike in that area to go straight. Yeah. I mean if you look at it, you got to So right the bike lane is Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. Without any painting or anything. It just goes away and then it shows up at the light. You're like, "Oh, did you make it?" Here's your explain for you. You're alive. That it's so small, but just that little bit is so scary. Yeah, it is. And actually, I don't know. Yeah, it's not that I would do that. Have you used the underpass? is that it just feels Yeah.

But if you're going to you're going to Walmart underass ain't going to help you cuz you got to go then the train comes and you're like, "Oh gosh, nobody does that." Yeah, I think even a green paint would be well needed there and have a serious benefit right? At least paint it for now. Yeah. Luck. Well, thank you. Yeah, thank you guys. Appreciate the feedback on it. Yeah, thank you. Uh, still Daniel never showed up. All right, on to report. Real late. Good. I think you're all reports, right?

Yeah. I'll go through some of the give ourselves a few more minutes. But safe house school volunteering that already. That's what that one was. Awesome. That up front area foots. So, we're moving forward. There's a a bunch of foots connections in there. So, pretty close to where we were just looking at that roundabout extending off of the existing Fox Glenn foots. Yeah. Right at the Maverick area. Is that the um to the south or so into the the woods from there? I can Oh, okay.

Fox Park over here. This purple is the existing trail. So, there's a series of trails coming off of it. These alignments aren't entirely set. these other purple and and orange ones coming through this whole area that we have a a contract moving forward to get that all the way designed. This piece to connect it into this neighborhood. This piece will be done with when this part of Canyon Del Rio develops. So now you'll have a connection all the way from Fox Glenn down Rio or up the Rio this way.

You can get on road here. We're Yeah, a new new project to fill in these these different trails in this area with connections into a new a developed area here. It's happening and then the extension of this road connect up to that as well. Dier A crossings. If you guys have been over there, they're most of those medians are in if you want to go check it out. So providing crossing opportunities to get to all the transit stops along that as I think it was just a a chip seal project.

So, just a road maintenance project, but it covered the striping enough that we could sneak in some buffers on industrial. Industrial has buffered bike lanes. Now, it's a smallish buffer, but it's there. Stretch out coming this way. Oh, wait. ride that little buffer. We snuck in on a maintenance project. Sweet. It's there now. Mhm. Sweet. Once I get a bike. Yeah, it's coming again, right? Soon. We have some sidewalk infill on Columbus. Um I believe that's now Switzer Canyon. Did it change? Yes.

Okay. GIS maps behind the times. There's a couple really small gaps that that we filled in just this last month or two. It was right before Fourth of July, which was nice. Okay, we're good. And then another one I thought you guys would be interested. We have the storm water department calls it Big Phil Lake. So the Riota flag, you know, it meanders through all this, gets to the railroad mostly here. I think the railroad's the one that blocks it and it it backs up into here a lot. Oh yeah. Yeah.

So that that becomes a big lake. So they're looking at a project with a bunch of storm water pipes, 9 foot diameter pipes to cross under the railroad through here. And we're trying to get a trail that be able to use one of them. That would be really cool. That would be super cool. Get in through here. Have you guys rode through any of those type of trails? Is there I'm trying to think through the bottom of it to avoid it being just mud.

Yeah, I don't have a time trying to think through some little little things. We can't do too much because then it starts changing the flow characteristics and any delay stuff with BNSF. We can't get too complicated. So, is the dotted purple already path like? No, it's just an old land. So, just we'd have to as well. Yep. Yeah, it's one piece. Gotcha. This piece is actually going to probably come sooner than that. Maybe it's a picture canyon. Yeah.

uh through kind of a great example where you're riding on a great about a foot off the very bottom. So you still have eight feet of clearance. We've seen in in Arkansas they use a lot of these but they're not the flow line of a wash necessarily like they get some water. Oh boy. Yeah. Yeah. But so they just do compacted earth for a foot off it. The math works out to be 5.7 feet of flat width on the bottom. Thinking about concrete to do the same thing there and maybe tilting the concrete a little.

So you still have like yeah mostly it's four feet mostly clear but the muck that will inevitably build instead of being spread out we concentrated down one side that we could do that silver bullet answers solutions as you go down as you go down further along there go south I think along there and you coming by the driving range. Yeah, that's driving range on the left of there.

And I think you were you were talking about one time in the meetings they were going to put another foot trail to just on the east side of the trees there. Yeah. I I think that I I got caught in a rainstorm running home through there and that you would you that would be underwater if you know a lot of times it's got water if you're on that other side of the trees. Okay. Down. So you'd have to just raise that grade a little bit so you're out of the water. Sure. Yeah.

That one I think we're still hoping to piggy back off. There's a roundabout project up right here that I think it's kind of chugging along on design. I don't know the construction schedule on it, but it hasn't disappeared yet. Yeah. And then the there's easements discussions with the driving range. They didn't they didn't like us going over there. But if we don't go on the other side of the trees, we basically have to take out all the trees. Yeah. And then you're right there. So some tradeoffs.

Yeah, you'll be aimed at golfers. My observation is just that you'd have to raise the grade a little bit there just keep out of the water. That's good. Yeah, it is. It's a little lower right here. Even then over here. Yeah. The balls fall. Yep. No gap. Flagstaff the term. Well on our way I had on the reports part. All right that's all for all of the reports. Okay. So then uh number eightformational items to and from commissions and staff. You all have any comments or anything?

Got an email from Sam fit in on this this part here. See, Mayor Daget will be reading a proclamation regarding week without driving on Tuesday, October 6. ma'am would like to invite members of the BAC and PAC to attend that council meeting in person if they are available in support of this proclamation. I believe it will be read at 3 p.m. on this day. What day is it again? October 6th. 3 p.m. I think I can forward this the week without driving.

She linked in case you guys want to check it out or be great if you we'd love to see you know about it too. A lot of cool stuff out there. So yeah, I was I was going to bring up the bikes at NAU, but we already got to do that. agenda. All right. So, on to the last item. One more. There's some kind of uh talk in the festival of science that was safe and connected roadways. I think it had something to do with wildlife. Just going to go to that. anybody wants with me. When is that?

Um, it's on September 26th at two. I think it's at the Museum of Northern Arizona. Let me pull up the official thing cuz that's just what I put in my Aan connected roadways and wildlife at the Museum of Northern Arizona. Biologists and transportation officials are working to reduce collisions between vehicles and wildlife. We'll learn about it. I'll be there. Cool. You want to send that to Carlton and he can what Sam's doing. Also, the Festival of Science is amazing.

So, you're not checking the schedule. What are you doing? All right. Anyone else? Last call forformational items. Okay. Um so the next item, our next meeting is scheduled November 19th. Is that the combined BAC and PAC meeting? And then our December do the combined to avoid Thanksgiving. Great. December meeting is canled. Oh great. Awesome. Do we need to do anything about that? Just let everyone know. Get it on the calendar. Yeah. Then November 19th will be Daniel's last meeting.

He's turned out to celebrate. Hopefully he'll make that tea. What did we do? Yeah. What did we do for the um everyone else turned out last night? We did cake or something, right? We did not. Yeah, we got some mugs. Oh, that again. Yeah, I think the last one when people turned out I was on Zoom. I was like, I know something was going on. So, uh I may reach out. We're allowed to reach out to individual members, right?

and not the whole committees that appropriate or should we just say one onone not I think oneonone is okay right it's just the the discussing the agenda and how you vote no we're not doing a quorum so it's like okay so we can talk about okay I will take on I will take that up that meeting And then hopefully the early December Transportation Commission meeting, they'll they'll announce somebody to to fill the spot. Okay, awesome. We'll review that. We had a few applications last fall.

I think we'll see if we get more or if they renew them or if they renew them. check them out. Oh, wait. So, did we pick somebody? We've No, we won't. We'll just go. Yeah. Not as as this group. We'll have to most of the other commissions would always have a council appoint this one. This committee and the PAC committee, the transportation commission will will appoint. Awesome. But with that, yes, spread the word if you know of someone you want to apply. Real quick our website. We'll see it.

Do we have anyone going the next transportation commission? Apparently, you've been trying. I'll try again. When was that? But when's the next one? 7. October 7th. Yes. At the four at four. We should be good. Awesome. Very cool. Thank you for going to that meeting and I'm sorry you had to be my phone. All right. So, the last meeting uh item is adjournment. Make a motion to adjourn the meeting. Is that what we do? All in favor. All right. Meeting adjourned. Thanks everyone.

Roger meeting is question.