Phoenix Council Briefs Community on State-Mandated Middle Housing Requirement

Tonight's presentation will address the state requirements and outstanding. At the end of the presentation, we will hold comments and questions to the end. If you have a question or would like to make a comment, please fill out a speaker to staff to identify who you are. also speak. We have several staff here from the city of Phoenix. [Music] I am the district director in the county department. [Music] Kevin Wade is our historic preservation office.

Josh, our planning development director will be here office before. Good evening. How are you? I hope a little bit of a smile. Um what I have to say is uh I have heard from many. I know of the situation. I have been in the situation since 2024. 2024 was a year of multiple zoning bills that the city opposed. There's multiple zoning bills that the legislature always does and we come up and we say we're opposing. 2024 was the middle housing bill. We opposed that.

I was deep in the trenches with our government relations office in opposing. We opposed all the way through. Once we saw that the bill was passing, we started saying we need some uh protection for HP because we were we were I was opposing to say please keep historic districts out of this, exempt them. What we got in all of it was we could still have HP design. We could still have uh our demolition uh timeline. What they didn't want to hear and refused to hear was about exempting HP.

I talked to several legislators that were moving it. Um we had not only our government relations, we also had other uh consultants or lobbyists helping us with the Republican and the Democratic side. Uh what ended up happening is middle housing passed. Then Aaron Marcus, if you can stand, came into office. Aaron is a legislature of your area came into office and he said, "Aaron, please champion a bill to exempt HP from mental housing." He didn't.

What happened is that they chose not to give it a hearing and it died. So, here we are today. uh we will end up passing we will follow the law and end up passing something as you're seeing what's coming out. We are fast and furious working with outside uh an outside lawyer to see if there's what we can do, how we can do it. Can we do the bare minimum?

What I can say is all this organization that is happening needs to happen and needs to happen today with the legislature that are starting to write new bills. They're writing new zoning bills. We've asked Aaron once again to run a bill. We're hoping that we get another sponsor in another city that has historic preservation, hopefully on the Republican side, to help us get this bill over. What I need you guys to do is start now writing your legislature.

Not only writing your current legislature, but writing outside of our district. Our rule community has has a strong they have a vote too. Our rural community can collaborate together and shut a lot of things down for us. So, we have to make friends with everybody at this moment. Um, I can tell you that uh the short-term rental group that we were talking with last week at Legal Cities is willing to join the fight, is willing to come in and collaborate and join the fight and help.

Uh, we are working with many other entities to try to get them organized and get together and do the fight. Um, Many people have said I didn't do anything. Some people have said where have I been? I've been in the forefront in fighting. If anybody knows me, everybody knows that I will fight for our neighborhoods and I will always fight for the historic district. I am now in this space and time and as you can see I will continue to fight as we organize more people. Willow I a question here.

I'm going to tell you quite frankly, but I got told Lilo is just whining. Lilo is of uh what was the term they use? No, they didn't use nimies because I said I don't like I don't uh uh uh Willow is fighting for themselves. That's the only historic district that has closed fans gets everything they want. That's fair. You know what what I have to say is Willow is the one that has the power to organize and Willow is fighting for the historic district. And this isn't about Willow.

This is about the historic districts that people have moved into during a time where they would not have moved into a historic district. If anybody knows history, any people know history of Arizona on the maiden uh know history what those neighborhoods look like in the past and where they are today and the sacrifices that many of you have made in order to keep them where they are today and the value that they are today. Do you have every right to fight for your neighborhood?

But not only do you have every right to fight for your neighborhood, you're fighting for every other historic neighborhood. What you also hear is there are historic neighborhoods that have duplexes. Alo has duplexes. I know that. I see that there's one on 7th Avenue south of or north of McDow. Tom Slack is still there, your former council member. So, I know that that it's possible. What they will say is, well, look at Pearson, look at Coronado, look at Darville, look at Roosevelt.

Well, I my my response to that was, "Yeah, look at that." But when those were built at that time, that's when the zoning was happening. Now they're historic. So, we need to preserve that. I am on the fight to preserve the inner core of the historic. If you really look at it, it's the outer historic neighborhoods on the periphery that have the ability or right now have the zoning for duplexes, town, condos, and even apartments. Well, it's working there. That's great.

But our core is not that we need to preserve the core. And if the out peripher is working, that is great. as a director. It It's happened and it's been happen. So, I'm here to say I have been here. I have watched. I have heard. I am in the trenches and I am pushing as much as I can. So, I have asked staff to give this presentation as they were going to roll this out. But I also asked staff, let's figure a way.

So that's why we're getting our outside consult lawyer coming in to help us with the law where where there any type of loopholes or anything like that. Um I have several council people that are going to stand strong with me, but I suggest you start writing them. Um, I have some that do not have any historic districts that say, "Why should I care? It is the law. Let it happen.

What's the issue?" So, my suggestion is that you write those council people and saying, "We need to keep ourselves preserved. We need to preserve history. It's not that we don't want it. It is within our neighborhood, but we do not want someone to come in and assemble homes, knock them down, destroy them, destroy the history, and then have town homes. Some say, Laura, this is a fear factor that your neighborhoods are doing. I said, no, it's not a fear factor. It's reality.

It may not happen today, but what I do today and what we do today preserves the future. And what we are fighting for is really our future. [Applause] It's the future that we're fighting for to preserve. It may not happen in five years. It may not happen in 10 years, but all of a sudden something happens with our economy. something who knows what that law is in place then it goes into play. So I want to thank you again for being here. I want to thank you for advocating.

If you need some suggestions on a letter, if you need some help in getting to for maybe we have a group that identifies who we need to uh different sections of Willow or historic neighborhoods to target different legislatores legislator. Let's do that. My other point is you need to hold those that created this bill accountable. [Applause] You need to also hold those is not just the the core of who voted, but it's a it's a whole other group to say this is what it's doing.

Ma'am, I know you've been patiently raising your hand. I'll answer one question and then I got to go. I got to go take my daughter to softball. We could have done I've been on it since 2024 when I heard about it. I'm sorry you didn't hear I'm sorry you didn't hear about it. I know people in Milo I've spoken to and we were in the middle of the fight. I'm sorry. Um the board that several board members knew about it. I I agree that you should be angry because you didn't know about it. I agree.

If you want to be angry at me, that's okay. But I would move that anger to action and that is writing your legislature and making it happen. The other piece is I would be as I am leaving term. Um, I would look at your candidates and I would look at your candidates and see what they support and what they don't support and see where which candidate is lining where so that you know how to protect your neighborhoods. I am a native of this area.

I grew up in Encanto Manor, which was not called Enantel Manor way back. Um, have lived there since I was 13, moved in that neighborhood. So, I understand the power and the strength of historic discipline. I understand the power, the strength of community. And that's what we do is we have built community around us. Move your anger to action. That's what we need. Thank you. [Applause] Thank you, Councilwoman Pastor. Just one other item. We are we do have Phoenix uh TV channel 11 here filming.

We are live streaming. Um, anyone when we get to the questions and answers portion, you will need to speak into the mic so that they can get that recording. I'm going to turn it over uh and Christopher is going to walk you through our presentation. Thank you, Trisha. Again, my name is Christopher Depro and I work for planning and development department and I'm going to present for you what the city's response has been to the bill um rather than the law of the legislature in 2024.

So, I think uh Counciloman Pastor did an excellent job of explaining how we got here, but it's just a little bit of a graphic for you there to explain that this did actually come from the state and we were directed to do so.

Um, specifically the legislature said that cities of 75,000 plus population must authorize by an ordinance and incorporate into its development regulations, zoning regulations, and other official controls of the development of duplexes, triplexes, forplexes, and town homes as a permitted use in certain locations and under certain conditions, which I'll further explain. authorized by ordinance incorporate into its development regulations, zoning regulations, and other official controllers.

This is a legislature telling each city and town to enact and enforce regulations. So, it wasn't the state law in the sense of don't do state zoning. It was directing each municipality to enact the law as directed by the state. Now, the development of duplexes, triplexes, forplexes, and town homes as a permitted use, this is generally what is known as middle housing.

Although frankly there are other nationwide middle housing is known as other forms as well other than the ones directed by the state. This is a graphic of an example of what might be known as metal housing. It's somewhat more and more limited under the uh legislators legislator's bill. What you're likely to see in Arizona is more what we see at the bottom of this slide, which is um there are two duplexes shown as an example of what you might see and a forplex. Um a triplex would also be address.

But what is middle housing exactly in the state of Arizona? The description in the law is middle housing means buildings that are compatible in a scale, form, and character with single family houses and that contain two or more attached, detached, stacked or clustered homes and include duplexes, triplexes, forplexes, and town houses. So in Phoenix specifically, it means that the city must allow up to four dwelling units per single family lot in certain areas of central Phoenix.

but also on at least 20% of the lots in a new subdivision of 10 contiguous acres or more citywide. So, it isn't solely restricted to the area in central Phoenix. Um, new developments will also have the supply rate, but it also requires them to be constructed in any attached or detached manner. So, when you hear the word duplex or triplex, I know a lot of you picture a single structure, but the definition state law says that they can be built in any manner.

It's just the number of units on a lot the way it's written into the law. It did come with some limitations, however. Um it wasn't just say do that and let us go. It was they added some restrictions on implementation. So the city cannot set restrictions permitting for review processes for middle housing that are more restrictive than those for single family dwellings in the same zone.

What you're going to see from this is that a lot of our response and when we have the actual change in text out is that there's going to be a lot of very minor changes not to entitlements but in terms of how we look at and review certain types of development uh because right now that wouldn't be the case in our ordinance that they are not exactly treated the same. So we've had to do that.

One of the other things that the city cannot do and this is written into the bill exactly as you see on the screen. City cannot discourage the development of middle housing through requirements or actions that individually or cumulatively make impractable the permitting sighting or construction of middle housing. And I think that's the word. Um the next thing city cannot restrict middle housing types to less than two floors. And I'm address that a little further in this presentation.

The city cannot require owner occupancy of any structures on the lot. The city cannot require any structures to enter a fire sprinkle. Now, that's something that we've already addressed. There are certain types of residential construction that certain duplexes, triplexes, depending on how you build it and under what code that would actually require a fire scribbler.

When the city adopted its 2024 building codes just recently, we did work ahead and put an exception in there where it doesn't exempt it, but it does require a stronger type of fire rating in place of the fire. So there's higher fire resistance. So we have introduced that already. And the last thing that they told us was that the city cannot require more than one off street parking space per unit. But yet there's more. There is one penalty clause also put in the bill that says exactly this.

If municipality does not adopt the regulations required by this section on or before January 1st, 2026, middle housing shall be allowed on all lots in municipality zoning for single family residential use without any limitations. without any limitations is not further defined. It could mean no zoning controls whatsoever, no restrictions on height, setbacks, lot numbers, parking placement or design. So they made it very clear that they want us to have this adopted. So how is Phoenix responding?

Well, the basics are on this slide. There are two things going on with this effort. the text amendment which actually changes the regulations in the zoning ordinance itself to allow middle housing that's required by the state and it creates that by creating a middle housing overlay district that we would put on top of existing zoning where it's required and that will give the permission required.

However, there's also a reasonzoning case that will apply the middle housing overlay to areas of Phoenix surrounding downtown as required by the state and that's the area around central Phoenix that I referred to which you will see in this map. Now, I know it may be a little bit hard to see on here. Um, it is in the flyers, right? Yeah. So, in the packets in the web, there's a larger copy of the map. It's also on the website we have phoenix.govous. You can actually look at the map there as well.

Um, this zoning case went along with the text amendment will apply the overlake district over the area located one mile of downtown as shown. Downtown includes all properties zone downtown. And I had a question right before uh this presentation that I explained. Um, there's a terminology in the state law that says around the central business district. The state law, this particular state law basically co-opts a term used elsewhere in state law but differently.

It calls it a central business district, but then it g us gives it its own definition. And one of the primary points of the definition says it shall include all of the area that the city has officially designated as its downtown on September 14th, 2024. So the gray area that you see in the middle of that is the area that is zone downtown code since 2010. And that code in particular states that this area shall be known as downtown capital D.

So that is actually where we've started with assigning this and complying with the law. The state law, however, does exclude some areas. I think you're going to notice a little bit on the south side of downtown there where the area that's not red. That area is not included in this effort because it has to do with air flight air, excuse me, airport flight noise and there's a certain level of sound contour of 60 dB average over night. That's a dayight level.

Um, this law specifically says it cannot be applied instead of areas. That's a federal regulation not to encourage more housing in areas that are considered. So that is not included. So in terms of what you'll see in the text amendment u for the revised zoning ordinance regulations, the city may not set regulations permitting or review processes for the housing that are more restrictive than those for single family dwellings. Excuse me.

So what you'll see is there are extensive language revisions throughout the zoning ordinance to change references to single family homes to also apply to middle housing such as we have single family design review. We have things that talk about what you do for an individual unit on a lot. They've all been sort of changed to be able to refer to up to four units on a lot and that was quite a bit of work for us to be able to do that. So you'll see a lot of that.

Um we've altered some definitions in a few places to um comply with definitions provided in the state law, but the main item is that we created a brand new section in the zoning ordinance middle housing overlay district to apply the additional improvements were required. So while many of you are obviously here concerned about historic preservation, we'd like to point out that I think you very clearly know that they were not exempted.

Um, and as Councilwoman Pastor pointed out, the law did not change existing design review procedures for historic HP zone properties. Um, it does not pointedly attack them, but it did not exempt them. It does not change existing demolition restrictions for eligible store properties, and it does not require the city to allow twotory structures everywhere on the lot. And what I mean by that is that this is an example of a of a typical historic lot. I use an example of lot that might be zoned R16.

It's the minimum size that you can have in R16 which is 60 ft wide by 94 ft deep. And what I've put on this drawing is the area in the middle, the largest that's white. Um that is what's known as building envelope. And there is on the top side of the drawing there's a dimension. This is 25 ft. On the bottom side in yellow, it says 20. That's the front. It's required front yard setback. On the left side before the sidewalk and the white area, it's a 10ft sideyard set back to the street.

And then on the right side is three-foot setback, which is an interior side. That area is where you typically would place a house and you're allowed full height permission of 30 feet and two stories. Our current regulations do allow projections in the areas that you see in blue. So the rear yard which is on the top, you could actually put a onestory maximum 15t addition onto your house in that area currently. Um in addition, you could do something under the other laws we recently adopted.

That's the same area where you could build an accessory building. It's the exact same area in the front. We've always had a provision for a projection of five feet into the front yard um for half the width of the house. That's what you see in green on the front. What this doesn't tell you, which I will tell you, is that we also have a lot coverage requirement. If you built everything you saw in that drawing, you'd be way over that coverage.

Those are the only areas where you're allowed to put it. That doesn't mean you could actually sell it completely, but that's where you put it on a lot. What we've done is this is typical for now. We have not changed any of those regulations. So where middle housing can be built is in this exact same spot to the exact same dimensions.

So that way not only are we not changing hopefully the form of an area that already has existing structures like that, but we've also not we're not treating either middle housing or single family housing differently from each other. It's exactly the same. This is a little closer. on some of the drawings I showed in the beginning which shows the types of things you could see placed on a lot. I just thought it might be useful for you to see.

So that's what they're showing is they're called a stack duplex. Of course, you're probably familiar with duplexes that could be built side by side. And that's an example there showing on a lot. And that's an example of something could be a forplex on a lot. And again, all of this is available. This presentation is available on our website if you want to spend more time taking a look at that.

Now I was about one of the things that people were afraid of is that this would allow a lot of subdivision into very very tiny lots. The state did not require the city to allow subdivision of lots developed with metal housing and the city is not proposing to allow more lots and is currently permitted by existing property entitlements. We're also not proposing to allow smaller lots than is currently permitted by existing property entitlements. All of that is remaining the same.

Middle housing, however, the way the state is defining it is multif family development because it provides more than one primary unit per lot. So all the references in the state law talk about the number of units on a lot, not the number of additional lots. It's all about how many units on one lot. The other provision, which I sort of skirted over the beginning, is citywide.

There is a provision to say we have to be able to allow all new subdivisions of 10 acres or larger that are contiguous acres, so they're all connected. Um, to also have up to 20% of the lots have middle housing rights. So, what we wrote into the middle housing overlay was an optin for subdivisions that meet the criteria. And what they will do is actually subdivide as per normal.

And at the end of it when they've recorded a plaque, they will tell us which lots because there's no directive for us to be able to pick it. Um which lots should have the middle housing entitlement and then we will send a map to council and that will get mapped with the same overlay district that we'll be doing for the area of central Phoenix. So this is an example of a 42 lot subdivision. 20% of the lots of 42 is 8.4.

I randomly picked eight and gave an example what somebody might do and then we would apply the MH overlay and those lots would be able to also have theision for the four units per lot. Now this was a very uniform subdivision.

The thought is hopefully if somebody was designing one they might design something that would fit a bit better but that would be so our timeline on this um essentially we're at um the one that I've highlighted in yellow information number two we do have two additional meetings for anybody that would like to hear again or if you want to get the word around both of those will be virtual only and we do have information on our website again which is phoenix /villeousing and you can register online for that for those two meetings on September 4th and September 16th.

In the month of September, we will also be going to the planning committees with also planning commission for information only on September 4th. In October, planning commission will be hearing it for recommendation and a November 5th city council will be hearing this side. Again, I just explained the website, but there it is on your screen again if you need that. We also have an email inbox, pddm middleousing phoenix.gov.

So, if you have any questions, we can help you with uh once through that site. Just to sum up though, I'd like to give you some things, key takeaways. It was the Arizona legislature that required the city of Phoenix to allow me housing. We do have to permit it within one mile of downtown with the exclusions. We do have to allow it in up to 20% of new 10acre plus subdivisions and we do risk losing all zoning regulations and design review middle housing if we do not comply by January 1st, 2026.

With that, I think we answer our questions and comment sections which Trisha will be facilitating. Thank you, Trish. Thank you, Chris. Okay, as we said, we are um live streaming this. So, anybody who wants to speak or make a comment, please come up to the podium here. We do have staff in the back with wireless mics. If you're far in the back or not able to come up to the mic, we can certainly come to you. Just raise your hand. I will I have all the speaker cards.

if there's any that we didn't get. Um, if you think of something in the meantime and want to fill out a card, my staff is at both sides and they can collect your cards as well. Um, I will call the first couple just so you know that you're um coming up and um Nie, where'd you go? Nellie here is going to take time for us. So, each speaker will have up to two minutes. She'll raise her hand when that two minutes has um been met and then we'll go to the next speaker. All right, Aaron, you are first.

And then we have Susan Edwards next and then Johanna Brandt. So, if you can come up to the Whoever you wish to [Music] the vice president of the billboard also the legal chair say Arizona and the chair planning committee by the way September 8th we will have our meeting at Phoenix College where we'll be talking about housing so you want to come show there's another opportunity will be there.

So, I must say that when I first heard about this bill, I was actually really excited only because when I heard about it, it was being advertised as affordable housing. As a formal affordable housing developer, I'm all about affordable housing. We currently do a lot of stuff to make sure that we're doing things for those that serve the community. However, once I started looking into this, I realized how much is not about affordable housing when it's just some nice talking points.

There is absolutely no teeth or anything in here that's going to require affordable housing. And if you think that developers are going to come and buy one right now million dollar properties and build a forplex of affordable housing well show me the way cuz I just don't see it these forplexes being anything but market or luxury rate is not it's just not please like show me the way we know better but it's not going to happen. no. So then I kind of thought, well, how did I miss this?

How do we miss this? You know, where looking through the history, where has been the outreach to the neighborhoods that it directly affects? And let me back up a little before I started looking into that. I was surprised to see that this is not a citywide initiative. And I just and I couldn't I was like, "Okay, so why is it just these neighborhoods that are singled out for this bill?" And I couldn't make sense of it.

And I started doing some research and looking about the history like, well, where was the outreach from the state ledge to the to the direct neighborhoods it was going to affect? Well, it's far and few between. In fact, it wasn't there. I couldn't find it. So again, you can imagine my gas, my shock where I need to be with a lot of my neighbors, with a lot of my little board members jumped on to fight against this near time. So let me just point this out.

Three feet is an interior uh is an interior setback. So that means I'm here Yeah, two stories. Write on your neighbor. You better be really good friends with your neighbor or start loving them soon because you guys are about to get real close. And thank you. My name is Susan Edwards and I'm your husband Neighborhood Alliance. We have been fighting this. We fought it legislature. We fought it afterwards.

I was here meeting a year ago when we wanted to expand city district saying we can't do this because it makes that many more neighborhoods vulnerable to the stinking awful bill. I have a list of the legislators not and I have cards.

We send out emails trying to help you both get your legislators to vote against this thing because it's historical oppress 75,000 uh and they did it in central business districts on the theory that public transportation was the idealists and the builders got together really did but we can't they were idealists without realism involved and that was what the problem here and we tried to tell them this is not realistic but they weren't listening.

Um we we rolled a few more bills and unfortunately our legislators tried to put through Sarah and Aaron Marz tried to put another bill through was not the legislature at the time was not legis because this is the bill which is also causing headaches and pain and awfulness and the um the short-term rental organic uh lobby fought against having any regulations against short-term rentals. These could all be short-term rentals.

You could have a forplex that is full of short-term mentors and zillions of cars clogging up our streets. I mean, this is a nightmare straight out of hell. And uh thank you to the industry. And so I have a list of legislators. I have business cards. We want more prize, but we there's more to this session. Maybe get something done because we're not the president of the Senate anymore. He has been a defender of short-term rental commodification of housing.

future short-term rentals, its investors and Trump's idea of putting crypto and uh private equity into into uh uh retirement plans is even more of a disaster for housing because that means more investors. If you go on our website, you can see something your head explode. It's a neighborhood. It's just painful and awful and and it's not impism that's causing a problem.

It's a whole bunch of trying to make a lot of money out of housing and housing should be homes or people and neighbors should be neighborhoods not [Applause] I'm sorry. Oh, thank you Chris Bazano Doug class. I apologize. Are you done? And then I have Jill Garing up next. And you can face whatever way you want. Yeah. Just keep an eye on I know this is difficult for time, but Nellie is is right in the second row and she'll raise her hand when you're good. My name is Dencia. I'm pleased to be here.

Um couple of observations I want to share. One is that no one should think the legislature was performing policy. This is part of the trend. We received the news last week before about taking on the sovereign rights of cities.

That's exactly what is taking place here and we need to understand what we're putting now in terms of I'm an lawyer but I've worked with the land use areas for most my career and one of the principles is that as a property owner as a government you cannot take adverse impacts on the other property and this is exactly what we are talking here is adverse impact the lawyers might call this inverse So my recommendation to the city is get with your lawyers.

My recommendation to the groups is get with your lawyers and examine this notion of inverse combination. The second thing is that the big bad thing if they don't adopt this is they lose zoning control and the entire city is pissed off. I think that could be a good thing. I think if Kim be did the same thing, if they did the same thing, if everything that was over 75,000, think about the political move you would have to go back to the legislature and say legislature, you don't overste. Thank you.

[Applause] First of all, I'm taking one thing that we all hang together or we all separate. This is not the time for anyone working on the personal and the first thing I would do if I were you is go online and go to show and look upation get a copy of it you have take a picture of your and to march on the state capital with all of our houses and all of our mean to us and to the state.

The other thing we should do is we should basically call our legislators and tell them that they basically like during the freeway through the place they destroy because they are basically if they basically are going to It's then what is I already have in all the house everybody. I already have structural cracks in my house.

as old as I am and I can't breathe in my neighborhood and I and they have basically had a remod next door and uh it is that isn't anybody's fault but my house is starting to crack. It was built by a design engineer and they have a whole bridge and he didn't build it for up and down. He built a tank that has a bathroom so you can run water under everything. like this. We're at time. Thank you, [Applause] Tracy. Mike Mart and Michael Mart. Hi.

Um, I just have a question for you because you have catched it a little bit in the thought that the building envelope was different than lot coverage. So, I'm wondering if you could talk specifically to what the city would be required to allow relative to lot coverage on say a 9,000 foot lot and what the reality of what would be allowed to be built on the lot that was now vac. Uh, sure.

Let me go back and just give you a little bit of a graphic so you can sort of know what I'm talking about there. Um, as you can see, I mean, I think you have a pretty good idea that um on that that exceeds 50% of that lot, all the areas that are not yellow, um, our our base lot coverage for most districts and definitely the ones that you see around Phoenix is 50%. So, on a lot that is vacant, you can construct and cover like I mean, it's coverage. It's like a footprint.

It doesn't take into account different stories. complete power to 50%. There is a provision in there for accessory dwelling units and attached shaped structures like porches that give you an additional 10%. But the provision is for ADUs only. It is not middle housing. So middle housing would be just considered multif family development.

So it would be limited to 50% but they could have attached structures that might sorry if you're asking comment we need to comment for it but we also need you on the micro and you won't hear it on the live screening.

What what I would put out there real quick is that building code is separate from the zoning and that while we have a three foot interior side here set back it's effectively five gives you two more feet because otherwise you can have no windows you could have no windows building code requires a five step back on opening the wall for fire. Are you m I have a list of random stuff that hopefully now organized.

So, um the first thing is what I'm going to ask them was there anybody when they went through this process, did anyone from who lives who owned a home in this area come and say they wanted this or that wasn't part of the process? Like did did they talk to anyone in the area or Um I think the council will probably get the best analysis of that. Um the f the first we heard of it the city was looking at a bill that was introduced into legislation. So yeah.

So so in like the more that I learn about this bill, it just seems as obvious to to everyone here. This is a very punitive bill. It seems like it's a very it seems like an attack. Like you know everyone here was bought one of these homes kind of buys it knowing that they're not just buying it for themselves, but they're preserving it for the future of whoever lives in afterwards, like more than any other home. And it seems like they're just trying to attack everything about that.

I I mean like all the hard work that people have done to put these things um on the on the historical the historical posters like that is just being fully attacked. And the la last thing I want to say is when we have these these other uh these other meetings in the future, is there a way for us to like get people who we can't compel them like be be like governor she signed this bill? There are people who proposed a bill. There are organizations that pushed it, you know.

Um I'm sure Airbnb loved it, you know. So getting these people to kind of defend that, you know, maybe it'll change your hearts down it, but you know, they should be here to kind of hear the kind of havoc that they caused. Maybe they love it. I don't know. But that's the thing that I I I think that we should try for if it's possible in in future meetings. That's it. Thank you. My name is Michael Marcuit. And first of all, can I see who is for this? Show of hands. For it. You're for this. Okay.

Um I'm not for this. I've lived through something like this. I lived in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, which was ravaged by new development, tearing down historic houses, which is going to happen in my neighborhood, which is Willow. I can see the handwriting is on the wall. This is not low income housing. It's going to be developers coming in, paying top dollar for these houses, tearing them down, and then building monstrosities next to your your house. You're going to pay for it.

And if you want to example, that place where they built those town houses and the row houses over there on that vacant lot, go down that street. Look at that house. that's right next door. They have to look up at that and it's it's just disgusting. So that's how I feel. That's my [Applause] Hi. Uh my name is Eric Marquez. I'm your new uh I just want to say that again new state representative. I [Applause] I was not there in 2024 uh when this piece of legislation passed.

Um at the same time in 2024 there was another uh piece of legislation that went through the legislature the buyer right uh allowing or forcing cities to uh have adus on properties. Um, so one win we did get this legislative session, uh, Ills from the city of Phoenix is here. She raised her hand. She's in the back. Ills is the lobbyist for the city of Phoenix. Uh, sat down with her right away. Uh, when I got to the legislature this past January, we put two standalone bills together.

One was to uh allow cities to require on ADU's owner occupancy. So, uh, I hope, uh, Susan you appreciate that at least as as one safeguard so that we're not allowing the use to to become hotels, uh, within the city of Phoenix. We did have a standalone bill that Representative Lori and Senator Alston and I introduced to exempt historic neighborhoods specifically, uh, from what we're dealing with now. Unfortunately, uh, we did not get a single Republican chair to hear the bill.

Uh I negotiated until the very end tried to sneak this into the budget. Um and I think uh somebody mentioned the Senate President uh is very much not in support of getting this exemption through the legislature, but there's a chance with the new Senate President um potentially coming up this January that we can try again. And I think what you heard from Councilwoman Pastor is really my message to all of you is they'll say raise your hand again.

uh get to know uh the city of Phoenix lobbyists and come down to the legislature. Um but it really it's there's a weird coalition of both Democrats and Republicans that came together support this and I think Democrats were convinced this was going to lead to affordable housing in their communities.

And then I think there were, you know, free part free market uh proponents that really just believe the the cheapest way to get housing anywhere in the communities is to let the free market dictate things.

I know as a Willow resident myself, I love living in Willow and I think we have to have a much more surgical approach towards uh looking at uh creating more affordable housing in our communities and we have to make sure we're protecting the things that make living in Phoenix and living in a historic neighborhood. One of the it's where I choose to live. It's where I'm raising my daughter and I think we all know the unique character that these uh these neighborhoods bring to our community.

So, we have to fight to preserve and protect them. So, I hope all you will join me in that. Um, but we also have to find, you know, the Republican state representatives, the state senators and the suburbs or the rural communities in Arizona that have some uh some historic neighborhoods in their communities as well to care about this because that's what it will take. Uh, the state legislature is a math problem when you come come down to it.

There's 27 Democrats and 33 Republicans in the state house and 16 uh 17 Republicans and 13 Democrats in the state senate. So, it's really a math problem of how do you get a majority? And in this case with housing, there was this weird bipartisan coalition of both Democrats and Republicans that supported these two bills. We got to pick a new majority to get this exception passed and and we'll be working on that.

I'll reintroduce this legislation from January and I hope you'll be there to help us get a hearing and help us get a vote on this bill. So, thank you so much. I'm proud to represent all of you, [Applause] Mr. Goan and Mr. Doer. Good evening. I guess I'm kind of old school on paper here as opposed to telephone.

So I apologize but uh good evening to our student staff directing PD for director Josh my name is Brad neighbor association district itself and I'm the current president will been supportive of multif family housing all for at least the last 30 years we tap streets the apartments down session most recently a 28 unit for $4,000 were sold million whenever we decided they're going to do what we're not seeing in whether condos, town houses or apartments is affordable anywhere in downtown.

But if you look at uh rent cafe.com Phoenix average getting rent $1,750 a month.

So I recognize we're not here to fight mosquito overreach but here to ask the city to make some implementation of this law as painless as possible existing neighborhoods along with protecting store homes districts investment ability will already duplexes so many other 22 districts that will be affected by this and now accessory units however many of those are going to be short-term rentals taken from the housing it's time for smart legislation from the state creative ideas from the city provide something affordable possibly on city own properties like 10.

Thank you very much. [Applause] Good evening everybody. Are you going to be okay? My name is Dr. Robert Canon. I have lived in the world for 26 beautiful years. I have been past president for multiple terms. I've been on the board 18 of those years. I want to talk to you a little about something different. Remember heard the mechanical efforts. I want to provide some ammunition for our defense as well as our offense.

I have been called many times over the last year while we work to fight this bill with Brad and the rest of the board. The term native not in my backyard. So what I say to that is this. When I first moved became the president, we had the first historic neighborhood that welcome. We opened our community to a rather controversial time. Second, we at that time we negotiated Willow Walk. Remember Willow Walk? Now it's called Tapestry on Central. We're able to stop First Avenue.

You may not realize the Willow Conservation at one time had central 135 and 7. Those of you those of you that live north of Holly and Mont Vista know we were able to negotiate the saving of nine homes. So we emulated historic preservation when the news came in at Central and Thomas central excuse me we negotiate. I distinctly remember asking them one important thing to make sure they had a pet area but we welcome them. We welcome them on 35th Avenue bike path. So my point is this.

You've heard the technical perspective behind us, but our backyards are important to us. We hold in our backyards many, many things. But before I move into what goes on our backyards, we have been accused of not having enough density. Those of you that live near Virginia 1 Avenue, you see we have no locks going in. There's density. We answer that. Affordability is another issue. You're beginning at 1.2 2 million to think it's affordable. We can solve affordable through this bill is ridiculous.

We should not We all invest in our property. We all have garages. We've been through a lot together. Our willow conservation plans firm. Anytime I have defended Willow in front of the city, most of the time I've had to use the Willow conservation plan. But I want to leave you with what was on our backyard. We have little kids Easter hunt. We have home tour receptions. We have my wedding reception was in my backyard became legal to be hired.

My husband who was a retired Phoenix police officer when he came up graveyard ship his eighth crew. We had their final crunch on a Tuesday morning. You talk about a test of a marriage that was somebody that works graveyard for four years on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday. that some of you know. He's a lot of work, but Mr. Kan, we're at time. We're at time. So, with this final one point, we will not give up backyards. We will run the fight. And thank you for listening to me.

[Music] [Applause] You a lot of people from my local I think one of the big things that I'm concerned about is reading the government relations report for the legislative around simplicity to one that included why didn't they exemption for historic power didn't want we don't know that I just hope when this new amendment is introduced to legislature The city of Phoenix does that with all their might and all their will because we will be there fighting for exemption for all the districts in this state.

Thank you [Applause] Jamie Mary Duran and sorry Wagner just if you're hearing that uh the the ringing is Naelli taking time. So when you hear that make sure you wrap up your comments. Thank you. Can you hear me? Yes. Um, I moved to Arizona when I graduated from college and fell in love with the desert and fell in love with the historic districts. I used to live in Acadia and I bailed out of there about 10 years ago.

In 2016, I moved to Florida because of the disaster of what the city of Phoenix and developers and real estate agents, no real estate agent, of marketing Arcadia as the next Brentwood and Hollywood Hills and that's what we have. So, I'm glad I left.

But what I would like to talk about is and I'm making notes too at the time um on the city's website planning department they the first thing that they state on the planning department's website is preserve our historic sites that is the number one thing the other things are planning etc etc so I want to know does the word site not historic PS and we all know that we're fighting for this historic home and also that the city of Phoenix has 15 villages and each one of those villages has central core districts but only our two districts in Kanto and central city has been listed out as those uh affected areas.

I think that's discriminatory and I think it's very selective. [Applause] But what I want you to think about is if you look at all the other cities that it's going to hit, it's Scottsdale, Tempy, Gilbert, Flagstaff, um, Goodyear, Glendale, Mesa, Scottdale, I said that. Every one of these communities has long-term historic districts because these communities have been here since the start of our state.

And if we're going to let that go, I suggest that we look to who our legislators are, where their money came, and the three primary three primary sponsors for this bill. I can read them all. Michael Carbon, District 24. Cesar district 26. Yes, I can say that. Um, district 30, David El Cook, I don't even know where he is. Travis Grand, he was inactive during this session. Canuelo Hernandez, district 21. David Livingston, district 28. Uh, Anelise Ortiz, district 24. Michelle Pñena, district 23.

Austin Smith, I don't know where it is. Uh Judith Wilmet, Sony Belli, David C. Farnsworth, Brian Fernandez, Anna Hernandez, and Peterson. Most of these people have no skin in the game because they live in communities that don't have 75,000 people as residents or it's all open vacant land or state parks area. Thank you. Please [Applause] been talked twice. My name is Mary. I've been 41 years and I will tell you that the legislature had I know this was happening.

The ones I have talked to think that Warren Peterson and Republicans are punishing the people they consider to be the poor Democrats in the state. That's innocent. That's a problem. I can't prove that because they won't come out and say you told me that. Number two, we're going to have to do this. But once we do, or if we don't, we have to get the city to not let builders build anywhere they want, as high as they want, as wide as they want.

The inspector comes up and says, "Oh, you can't do that. They do it anyway." Nothing happens. So we need three council representatives one of them because he will help us enormously. Please call your legislator to tell me on both of these bills. [Applause] Hi I'm Wagner. I also live in Willow. Um and I co-chair St. Rick Arizona with Erin Long who spoke earlier. We out the little cards.

If you are frustrated because you feel like you didn't have enough information on this, you were left in the dark, we're trying to fill that void for the upcoming legislative session.

So, if you will log into our website or go on there, we're going to keep you updated on what is happening with this as this tech amendment moves through the city up to the city council and also what's going to happen with this as our legislators um Erin Marquez and and Sarah Lori trying to get a bill passed to exempt our historic districts from middle housing.

Saying that, I just want to say I also serve on village and we have over the last few years and and in the past they mentioned approved thousands of units of new housing in Cano Village is the most densely populated area of Phoenix. We are the OG middle housing inclusionary zoning. Um one thing a lot of people don't realize our lots are already zoned for duplexes. So um I'm not sure why the state legislature felt it was okay to target us but I'm going to ask Chris a question.

It's the same one I asked at a city of Tempee meeting and it I think it kind of gives you our vision of what the state legislature wants our neighborhood to look like. So Chris, my question is under this zoning, could I end up with a forplex on one side of me that is all Airbnbs or short-term rentals and a forplex on the other side of me that's all Airbnbs and short-term rentals? Meaning I'm living in the middle of eight short-term rentals. Could that happen under this law?

There would be a process, but that is not impossible. That's what your state legislature envisions for our neighborhoods. [Applause] Robinson, [Applause] I apologize, and Mary Roberts. Hello, my name is Sasha Robinson. I am the new story preservation association president. Thank you for my story folks who showed up to see you. You're amazing.

So, as I've learned more about this since 2024, um obviously the most concerning to me is that it has such a small very focused footprint right knowing development is 20% but it really puts the burden of solving this affordable housing crisis on this tiny little sliver. It doesn't even go all the way around the downtown area because um so it really puts pressure on so many historic neighborhoods and it will absolutely lead to more demolition. There's just no way.

So and I heard Josh I believe at the at the historic preservation commission meeting mentioned that um you weren't able really to get much cont what those three scary words without any limitations really means. Whether it means there's just a wild west crazy nozzle of home that just middle housing will then be allowed in any single family lot citywide.

because if it just means that and not the free roll personally that sounds like a better deal because then it takes the pressure off of our historic districts. So, but that's my comment. Did you have a question that I missed a second? Yeah. Now my question is that why haven't hasn't there been more push to figure out what without any limitations actually means um if the city did not inflate I think that would probably okay thank Carol and Mary Roberts. Hello. My name is Charles.

Okay, there we are. Test. Okay. All right. So, um, you know, I I just think that the state legislators uh experimented with artificial intelligence and came up with you look at it and there is no specifics. There is no real uh law that this is really or even an issue that this is addressing.

And so I I really think that we need to I mean let me back up and just say that for the last several years I've been living in cartel and we had a similar situation come up where we had a historic band stand been there for since the time that the town was founded and so many people got married at that band stand. Uh we've had lots of festivals in that central park and all of a sudden the town council wanted to demolish our beloved band stand and something completely new.

Well, this is historically preserved. We all said and sure enough we went around and we had a petition. We got the signatures and we got this town council to relent. They didn't end up demolishing the building. They ended up fixing our beloved band stand and it still stands today. Looks beautiful, even better than it did before. So, I think we really have the possibility to do the same thing here in Phoenix. We just have to band together. We do have to do a petition drive.

There are a number of options that we have available to us because of the Arizona Constitution. We can't do a referendum because it's been a year since, but we can do a citizens initiative and repeal this AI state law. [Applause] Now, the initiative takes about 300,000 qualified signatures to make this an official thing. And we have until July 2nd to get those 300,000 signatures. That's a lot. But I think we we all have friends.

We all have we all have 20 people who are like-minded and we can pass along a a petition. We can get votaries to sign off on cir on circulators, petition circulators, and we can make our voice at least heard to the state legislature in coordination with what these lobbyists are doing. And I think that if anything, when this goes to a court, which I think it will, lawyers can point to a petition drive that's taking place that seeks to repeal the state law entirely. Sorry. Just one more comment.

I think there's enough people in all the surrounding communities, Flagstaff, Tucson, Gilbert, and Phoenix to make this a reality. And if not, we need to pay attention to November 5th is when the city council votes on this. And we can do a citywide referendum within 30 days of that. And this is something that Terry Gddard did as mayor when he was uh making districts in Phoenix. Well, please keep in touch in touch. My name is Charles. I used to run the location called The Noise.

I have an email chuck at the noise us. I'm going to do a story on this. I will let all of your comments and I'll real quick for you. Thank you very much for letting me go over, but please let's stay in touch. Let's get some signatures going. Thank you very much. We definitely want to get to everyone's comments and questions. We um so I just want to make sure everybody may adhere to time. Mary Roberts Country Club mostly questions. One, is there a limit on the height building that can go?

Um can there be more than one like You have store owners and how density plays to the city's use of encouraging plants, the trees and everything. And most of the water is taken off the building which creates more heat and also with raising level. My comment would be that anything the city or the state I can address a few. I believe I hope again you see this. I believe I addressed the height symbol back on on the slide that looks like this.

And just a quick summary, the area in the middle that's white is allowed up to two stories. That's existing now and that's not proposed to change. If you were to build an extension of the area that's blue, the limitation is one story and 15 ft. The little green area on the front is an area you can protect a little bit of your front yard to the full two story height in 30. That is not changing.

In terms of ownership, um the only provision in the state law that we're adhering to say is that the city cannot require owner occupancy of any structure on the lot that's in middle housing. Um we are not allowing additional subdivision of properties um smaller than the existing lots. So you couldn't have title is land ownership. There's nothing prohibiting under Arizona law of somebody turning into condominiums.

I don't believe that's the current favor of financing currently, but that would probably be the only way that ownership could happen under this current law. Not that um somebody will invent something in the future, but um it does not um provide for the state law. And did I miss anything? with regards to trees. Oh, I'm sorry about that one. Um, the state law doesn't address that.

It basically tells the city exactly what we need to allow and uh hopefully with the lot coverage provisions we have when I did explain that the maximum lot coverage is 50% generally with a little bit extra 10% for um an AU retach structures that still leaves 40% of the lot for plants that's not changing. So, it's not that you can build can cover more of the lots under the way we've written this. So hopefully that stays the same. Thank you. And I'm sorry, was that Mary Roberts? All right, Doug.

Thank you. Jim Hunt work and then patient hunt. This is great. I get to talk first. My name is Jim. Patty and I live in the also historic area. There are 13 historic houses in our area. There were 13 historic houses in our area when we bought our house in 1977. How did we preserve them? Well, we fought like that. We had zoning ballots. We had us before we got sued for over a million dollars.

We bought houses before they can be bought by somebody else and we refurbished them ourselves and we so I can see there people here who are ready to fight and um only 13 of us who are standing with you [Applause] There's one thing that really bugs me about what the city is doing. If we win, the city ordinance are still going to be in place. You win the legislature, the city ordinance will still be in place.

When you talk to your city council people, tell them, put a clause on this thing that says if we win and get this repealed that everything disappeared, sunset. The state legis and did it with abortion rights, for example. So, it shouldn't be any surprise to the city stands up and does the same thing. Thank you very much. [Applause] You know what makes me sick about this legislation is how stupid it was.

How fault was for the legislature and maybe even the city to choose the precious historic legacy of Phoenix to destroy? What other city in this country would take its precious historic legacy and destroy it? Big in Boston. Oh no. New York, Washington, San Francisco. Those are real cities. I really wonder when things will depend to put historic preservation first. I feel even sicker when I realize how easy it would be to do this correctly.

Many of us here could council with the city to find places for affordable housing. But oh no, no, we can't do it that way. We have to do it. We have to confiscate everyone's. And make no mistake, single family zoning is the bare minimum you need for a desirable neighborhood. Ask Paradise Valley, Scottdale, North Phoenix, Clean Water Hills, Detroit the zoning into the neighborhood. And don't you dare call us Indians. We have all spent decades accommodating mixed uses and community needs.

Affordable housing can go in our backyard where it fits, just not in our living room. And don't tell me that you can't do any city of Phoenix. You're the fifth largest city in the country. This happened because the legislature thought we are powerful and we don't count. We do count, don't we? [Applause] Michael [Applause] [Music] and Michael, Dana Bernett. Yes. Hello, my name is Dana. Um, I've been living in the Garfield neighborhood on East Mckenley at 78.

I received my notification that I am in the area, the zone or that is affected by this statute. Let me see. generated A1 page analysis. The principal concept origin comparison of similar regulatory actions producing states in the US foundation analysis six page report handed out copies of it. Let me see includes a high resolution timeline table presenting each major event ensuring understanding the state trajectory statute trajectory and implication.

Uh three specific concerns that I've identified. Uh number one is under the ARS 946213 is a sub section B municipality may not do any of the following and under under the set restriction permitting process they're more restrictive than the single family dwelling the historic preservation is an overlay like a dwelling within the same zone archive this reading would be illustrated by the premise of the conflict in our four and our five zone parts.

They are similarly known single family park yet they required are the new requirements required on all res if not done now the state controls what gets built where it's built inside the permitting review process come review of that structural design building material there are no historical protection in Let me see. Oh, HB 2719 introduced in February 11, 2025 tried to address that issue. So any issuance of historical protection only Mr. B.

Number two, the subsection D uh that raises the infrastructure concern uh that the utilities will have apparently what sounds like veto the provide that have to provide the utilities of course it might have done but you are in time sir I do I have several more speakers and I want to make sure that everyone gets an opportunity to submit their part. Could you please everyone took a two minutes in your time? We're happy to take more comments later or two minutes for everyone, sir. Thank you.

[Applause] My name is Mike Zato. I'm one of those candidates that Laura Bessel was talking about. Thank you. Candidate for city council and district 4. Um before I start on HB2 20 uh 2721 which does deeply concern me I just want to acknowledge the 22 native nations that have been this country this sorry the state uh since its inception and its upkeeping and cultural uh um helping of us to to make this beautiful state our home today. Um and also the building that we're in.

Um acknowledging the building that we that we live in and the outside that we're presenting in today is part of the city um that sole purpose was to tear our culture and language away. But we are resilient people and we are still here. My grandparents went to a school like this and so I'm proud to say that as a native person I am now seeking a position of leadership in this very district and I'm very proud of that. But let's talk about 2721.

The legislation represents a state legislature that is farreaching against local decisionmaking, stripping away the very protections that have safeguarded our neighborhoods for generations. 22 of Phoenix's 36 historic districts. Think about that. 22 of Phoenix's 36 historic districts. Communities like Willow, intend Garfield that we just heard from, or Coronado will lose their ability to control their own destiny when this law takes effect in January, which is only 122 days away. I'm sorry.

What we're facing isn't just policy. It's potential eraser of our community and identity. These historic districts aren't museum pieces. Their living and breathing communities where our families live and where our businesses thrive. Where Arizona's architectural heritage tells the story of who we are. From Spanish colonial to revival, these neighborhoods represent the cultural DNA of Commerce City. But here's what really troubles me. This law doesn't solve our housing crisis.

I think we all understand that million-doll units aren't affordable housing. Correct? We're not helping working families. We're not helping. What we're doing is helping developers and and their bad profits while destroying irreplaceable community assets. True housing solutions focus on vacant lots and underutilized areas, not gutting the very neighborhoods that give people care. [Applause] Our community deserves better. We deserve better instead of this false choice between housing and heritage.

Cities across the nation have successfully solved this problem while protecting their historic districts. We can grow thought without sacrificing our neighborhoods. The question isn't whether we should grow, it's whether we will grow wisely. That's the word there, wisely. We need housing solutions that respect community input, preserve our architectural heritage, and actually create affordable options for families.

HB2721 does none of these things [Applause] for the district from overreaching mandate. Thank you. Thank you, Michael. David Stans and Debbie Mars also can't see. Hi, my name Hi, my name is Mike and I want to talk to you about something that you have additional ability to take care of these and then afterwards I would like to then ask a question of the city if I could. So in essence, your neighborhood deed restriction or CCNRs may still control what is allowed in your specific subdivision.

And so here is a list kind of what you can't do. The first thing is find your CCNRs, which are rules report for your subdivision and the corresponding platform. That can be very simply done by contacting a title company and asking for the reported CCNRs based on your property address and the associated platform for that. Bas in essence, read them. understand the restrictions such as one story only, maximum height, and or no rentals for that.

If something violates those CCNR in your subdivision, then please talk to your neighbors and then consult a real estate attorney. Please note, the city does not enforce CCNRs owners do through a civil action at the Arizona Superior Court. If the city issues a permit, your CCNRs can still restrict what an owner may do in your subdivision. Owners enforce those restrictions in a civil court. In essence, a lawsuit against the neighbors, not the city. Also, please note, I am not an attorney.

This is not legal advice. I do not work for a title company. I am just a concerned citizen. Now, if I can, my question for the city. Basically, this bill was introduced in February 2024. It was passed in May 2024, a couple months later, and you stated that it has to be complied by December 2025. You indicated that Phoenix engaged the state lawmakers prior to its passage. Given the timeline, why did the city wait about 15 months after the law passed to inform the residents?

I recognize the city needed a few months to analyze the law and draft an ordinance, but the long gap of 15 months limited the residents ability to participate meaningfully and to plan their neighborhood. Please provide not only you, but the other city members that are here a clear explanation for the reason for this long delay. Thank you. [Applause] Thank you. Uh I think the best explanation I can give you is that there were two bills that were consecutive at the time.

2720 which was ADUs and 2721. City did have an idea of what this might do. But given everybody's reaction, I think we wanted to take just a little bit of time to figure out whether or not it was really going to have this effect that it's actually having on neighborhoods. Hold on. Hold on. I was gonna say I am however lower level and I'm not quite involved with politics of the city. So I'm going to let someone else I think chip in a little bit here has a little bit more information than I do.

Well, thank you. Good evening everyone. My name is Josh. I serve as director of the part. It's a It's a great question. I think as Chris as Chris was highlighting, we had a couple of bills that were thrown our way. One with a more um well, one with the 2024 deadline with the ADU that took up some time. I think as the council also noted, we we fully anticipated another bill that Representative Marquez ran for the 2025 session.

So, we didn't want to run with anything not knowing if something might have been changed as part of this past session. As we've discussed today, it wasn't. Right. So, I I think we we were wait kind of wait and see. I think what Chris was was saying there is we wanted to see what would happen in the 2025 session knowing that there was so much push back and whether or not the law was going to change. It didn't. And so, we here we are. So, I think that's the short of it.

We had several bills that we had to run that had a shorter deadline that we had to get done before this and we wanted to see if another bill was going to get pass that would modify this and it didn't. So, here we are. I the the question was when did the I don't know when the bill died again, you know. part of our responsibility is to make sure that we're we're complying with the law.

I appreciate the fact that that we're certainly here and you're frustrated, but at the end of the day, right, when the law passes, there's a city required to to comply with that. I I would hope that they would be the state and others would be responsible for letting you know when they're when they're passing those laws. We're at the point now where we're trying to take the steps to make sure that you know and that we have this deadline in.

Unfortunately, there's not I think there's no room for me to not comply with it. The the question was and I guess I don't quite follow I'm not saying that I couldn't change that. I said part part of what I was saying is that earlier this year as staff we were watching what the state legis what was going to happen at the state legislature. if if there was a bill that changed what this law said and we would need to address that. It it didn't happen.

So, I wasn't saying that we were having an active role in that, but we were watching whether or not there was going to be a change, David Stanton. And sir, you're gonna speak on behalf of Debbie Marcio. I am Dave St. president story. When I heard about this just a couple days ago as a resident, one of the first questions I had was this very strange operation when a state legislature got involved in a city historic district.

What state concern is that of the state of Arizona from the state legislature for not pass a law section of downtown? Where is the state concern? I contacted a friend of mine which is a uh legal attorney uh at the structure of he did a very quick survey the last two days and could not find anywhere in the United States where the state legislature had got into this conversation which assert the federal requirements of this of the historic district specifications. Nowhere has that happened.

Only in the first time can stay there. So he recommended that in your uh our effect of trying to resolve some of this maybe strong legal defense where we would make the case to the to a court that the state of Arizona legislature assert the responsibility and set aside federal requirements on historic district. has never been done before and a good taste to be done. [Applause] Good evening. Steve Marc standing up.

Um I don't know if you guys know it, but we've lived here in in the district's 40 years. Uh we were in Storing when they put the 10 through and and we went to the dedication for the for the uh tunnel and we walk. My wife walks every day. I don't know if you've seen her with the stroller and our dog who run stroller, but I see people here from Willow. I see people from Coronado. I see people from Story. We live in Story. We live in Willow right now. Uh we are city people. Okay.

We saw what development has done. It's been good, some bad, but this now what's going to happen is the um the flippers are going to come in and it's going to just get ruined basically. So, my thought is the city needs to back us. We're city people. All its people that are here, we're we're all dedicated to restoring and doing the the things that historical people have to do to make the the uh the community that we have. Um we know all the people here. My wife knows all the uh the dogs and cats.

Um my my GPS says I walked an average of 12,000 steps a day. I'm down to 10 now because it's, you know, summertime, so we can only walk in the night and then really in the morning. But she walks 20,000 steps a day. So we walk in story. We walk in weather. We walk in from who walk all over the city every day. So we've seen we see all these highrises come up from little where they saying you know 10,000 square foot whatever 10 acres or whatever.

Um we've seen those those highrises grow when you were building building these uh things. What was considered the highrises? What was considered um low income affordable housing? Was it just to to get the college students to use their their GSA money to to uh rent them an apartment? Why are they building all these apartments and they're not considered affordable housing? That's what I So that's my question. [Applause] I'm not okay.

I'm not actually sure what the question was to be honest with you. I got something about affordable housing and exactly why I'm not sure that a lot of the zoning entitlements that were provided required to be affordable. Um the state actually has another the city requiring affordable housing through zoning. We're not allowed to do that. I'm not sure if you're aware of that. That's another state law to say.

Uh just to your question about requiring affordable housing is that we're preempted by the state. We're not allowed to require affordable housing through zoning. Your question was why were the highrises that were built not required to be affordable? And sir, I I do apologize. Your time is up. I have nine more speakers and we have about 15 more minutes. So I want to make sure that everybody that has submitted a card does have the opportunity to speak. Follow question.

Sir, sir, is this city going to back us? I'm simply not answering because I can't answer that question because I'm not the city council. Joanne uh Kaufman, Steve Rap, and Mary Louise Rocky. Good evening. My name is Joanne Kaufman. Can you all hear me? Yes. I'm a 39y year resident of the below historic district. 39 years ago, I served on core and was instrumental in pushing through historic preservation. Prior to that, we were a special conservation district.

We fought long and hard to become historic. I feel that this is nothing less than a betrayal of what we fought for. [Applause] Our historic neighborhoods are the crown jewels of Phoenix. If we lose these, we have no character. We will be like any other soulless large city. I don't think any of us want that. I would urge all of you to take a little field trip. on First Avenue, Northern Montana Boulevard, and see the kind of construction that's going in.

Now, they've shown us some very pretty pictures. What I would like to bring your attention is the ugly communist style boxy gray building on First Avenue somewhat north of Cano. I can't be sure the exact area, but if this is what we can expect, I am wholeheartedly against this and I would urge all of you to fight this with every B [Applause] uh Mary Louise Rocky Mr. Wrath indicated his questions have been answered. I'm Mary Lou. Most people story know me as me or shoes.

Um I've lived in the story for now almost 37 years. Okay. If you want to know what middle housing is going to do to our community, just take a drive down Lynwood and look at what's happening on 7th Avenue in Lynwood. Three of our houses have been totally gutted. They are totally being the backyard has a AU whatever the guest house which a twocar garage. There is no space on the backyard. I don't know how people are going to walk in and out of our house.

The only space, green space is the front yard. They park their cars there. The construction work people park their cars there and the dumpsters there. Now, think about this. You a family moving into that house, they have two cars, two car garage. If you have a family moving into the guest house, they might have two cars. one day of guest pass. They're going to rent it out. That's the two cars that are going to be sitting on Lynwood right off the seventh Avenue.

I have I go down there almost every day. I have my car has almost been head-on collision with people zipping off 7th Avenue into there because it's a one car road. We have to think about that. We also are creating a island. We're removing our trees. We're removing our grass. We're removing our natural habitat. This is totally ridiculous. So the other question I have for the city is that historic story we have. Okay. Are they going to be the same rules? that we have now historically designated.

Going to introduce Kevin Wade representing our historic preservation office. Thank you. I want to thank everybody for being here tonight. Seriously, your passion when it comes to historic neighborhoods is fantastic. I've been here 27 years and this is the best turnout I've seen for anything. I wish it were something more positive, but I'm I'm grateful that you guys are here and that you care. Thank you.

As far as the question regarding non-contributors, I I am sorry to say that they are not subject to the one-year delay that the contributing property would be. If it's a contributing property in this district, then we can delay demolition for up to one year while um we try to save it. If it's a non-contributing property, they're not required to wait a year.

they could go ahead and get approval for demolition sooner, but there is a requirement that a replacement plan has to be approved first through a public hearing process. So, it would give everybody in the neighborhood an opportunity to comment and weigh in on that proposal before a permit were issued and we would still have to follow historic preservation guidelines for new construction. So we still have some correct. The historic preservation review process is not changing.

We might have to add a couple more units, some some lots, but overall the process is going to stay the same and we are going to hold the line as much as we possibly can in historic preservation. [Applause] If they put up a Okay. Can they sell the individual units as a co-op or do they have to be rentals that doesn't pay the bill and I'm kind of I also live here and there and that's right. So I know how to address that.

The the only thing in the in the state law that doesn't allow us to require own occupancy. So, it does allow us to require it, but it doesn't prevent somebody from finding a legal way to do ownership, if that is the question. Um, I'm not really familiar with co-ops, but condominiums, if somebody was able to do under Arizona's condominium, while they could attempt to do that. Um, it does seem to be somewhat problematic. That hasn't been very popular in more recent years.

Um, but there's nothing prohibiting it and there's nothing that we have prohibiting of that. Thank you. All right, I have Nicole S. Sorry, Sanderson Richard Hawk and we just have a few more minutes before we wrap up tonight. So, um, hi. I'm on the board of the downtown core neighborhood association. We support this bill. Um, we think historic preservation can coexist with this bill. So, I own a lost condo. more second. Not historic. Um, my energy bills are very low though. I like that.

Um, I do wish our building code required five or both. That would be better. But I do love living in attached housing. Um, our present or old zoning code limits most neighborhoods to about eight units, 81 units per acre. There are some big drawbacks to that. Um, limiting housing so much keeps it scarce. It drives up its value further. That's a problem right now. Um, it forces people to own many cars, one per adult generally drive for every trip.

Um, creates more pavement and infrastructure per person, which is very expensive to maintain. Uh, and generally speaking, for a neighborhood to be walkable, it requires about 20 dwelling units per acre. When people live close to jobs, amenities, and transit, they can drive less. So, new housing downtown actually adds the least traffic out of any location in the valley that we add housing. Downtown Phoenix, new housing would create the least new traffic.

Um, historic boards can still control a lot materials, facades, and other features that they can use to maintain accurate and historic character. And I would encourage everyone to go over to Roosevelt um and look at the his beautiful 100-year-old quad plexes and small apartment buildings are gorgeous. They uplift the neighborhood that can be maintained through the historic board system. So you can control uh somebody earlier mentioned Boston would never do this.

Cambridge actually already did it and they found a way to preserve the historic character with mill strictly regulated so that the new units are sort of hidden. Looks amazing. We could do it here too. I think uh Willow and our historic neighborhoods could be leaders in southwest infill architecture. Uh and we would all benefit from more neighbors patronizing our local businesses, spending their money on things other than cars. Thank you. [Applause] Hi, good evening everybody.

My name is Richard How. I use they them pronouns. I grew up in Mville. Uh I currently reside in the central city just adjacent to the boundary that was discussed tonight. I recently graduated from ASU with a master of sustainability solutions and a master of urban and environmental planning where I learned about a lot of the issues we have in our cities. Housing is one of them. Affordable housing is a big issue here, right? We you've got a bunch of luxury housing going up downtown.

It's not really designed for families, older people. We need more housing. I am for this. This would allow more housing in our cities. And I want to echo the last speaker. They made a lot of good points. um not affordable. This bill might not it might not say affordable, right? But this will create more housing, right? This is going to create more housing. Affordable housing comes down to the developers. Developers want to make as much profit as they can, most of them, right?

So, they're incentivized to not build affordable housing. We need to push the city to require some affordable housing. Right? I'm all for affordable housing. We need more housing in general. We have a housing crisis. I understand that I'm the minority in this room right now, but you guys are all aging. You're more affluent. We need more housing for more people in our city. We need to diversify the people who live in our central business district and around you.

Echoing many of the same points our last speaker made. It's going to boost economies, especially downtown. It's going to reduce traffic. So, please reconsider uh your thoughts on this. This is going to be the future. Change is inevitable. Thank you, Nicholas. Nicholas looks like April Roger Ster. Hi, my name is Roger Ster. I've been in for 27 years.

Uh I heard a lot of people say that maybe uh with this when it when it starts or when it's inactive that maybe it'll be a couple years, maybe be 10 years. I'm telling you it's here today. How many of you have gotten calls from private equity um to sell your house? I've got one on my phone. So that's my comment. Joanne Joanne Fresh and then Lillian will be our last speaker. I'll give it back. I'm a little vertically challenged here. So, um, and I'm very nervous talking in front of people.

So, if I stumble, please forgive me. Uh my husband and I have lived in uh central Phoenix in one of the historic districts since 1977. We fell in love with this whole area moving here from the Midwest like many of you did. We fell in love with architecture.

We didn't want to cookie cutter house which Phoenix was building and um we're now an empty story and um we are so committed to historic preservation that I mean we accepted the city's offer you know move new move downtown help us revitalize downtown will give you a tax break we will protect you from infringement around your neighborhood. We realize that the neighborhoods were sliding downhill. We need to revitalize them and like many young couples we jumped in.

My husband was making less than 20,000 a year and we managed to um um fix up our house but keep originality and um so couple more points. Um, we're committed to uh saving the interiors, which I know it's a personal um decision on when they do that, but we have a 100-year-old bathroom right now. That's right. The 100-year-old toilet and sink and tub and uh we have 75 year old appliances, stoves, and refrigerators. Okay, on to another point.

Um, like Dave Stanton mentioned, he's one of my neighbors. Um, I think this is a classic example of overreach by a state. Who better to determine the rules of a city than the residents? I don't know if this is happening around the country, but this is kind of disturbing to me. Um, again, one more point. Another thing that I think attracted all of us to this area was the green belt. And if we overbuild, we're going to lose our beautiful trees and bushes.

At the same time that Phoenix is trying to get us to buy more trees cuz we need more shade. So that's an obvious conflict. Anyway, thanks for hearing me out. [Applause] This will be our final speaker. I first want to thank everybody that's here this evening for voicing your opinions and I wholeheartedly agree with the vast majority and I want to thank you for that because I live in the east district which is a very small historic district compared to all these guys for caring.

Would you stay close to the microphone please? Thank you. Yeah, carrying the load and I appreciate that. But I'm going to support you all that I can. What I want to do is to ask you questions, Chris. Sure. Or Christopher, excuse me. First of all, we all sign the signing sheets and we've given our email addresses to the city.

I'd like to request that rather than just depending on our going on the web page, I don't know what the purpose of our email addresses are, but I would like to ask that we be given notification of upcoming meetings, meeting notes. There are a lot more people at the library the last time that couldn't get in. And the newspaper said there were only 200 people when there were far more people waiting on the outside that unfortunately had to go. They had nowhere to stand.

I want to implore upon you to help the little street that I live on that goes from Third Street to 7th Street to help us because we may fall to if this let me back it up. If this is not repealed, it's going to be the first nail in the coffin to turn our street into something that nobody wants of the historic district. We live right where the restaurant Thai Recipe is. We live right on the other corner is a school um a charter school.

And because of the traffic that's on our street, we are very very vulnerable to change in a not so good way. Right now, we have sequently delivering food to the restaurant that I could even get past my that truck to get to my home and I'm a homeowner. If you could whatever you're at time, so if you could You want to finish your comments? Okay. Real quick. I have been told as many on district that we cannot get in with the meeting for a meeting with the city of Phoenix.

We have been requesting at least parking permits because every time there's a herd museum activity or a parade, all those people wanting to park to attend these things. We are the only district, historic district east, I mean west of 7th Street that doesn't have parking restrictions. So everybody comes and parks in front of my house and all the other houses. Miss Moody, I don't want to interrupt you and I I just want to we have time.

We can certainly talk after listening to touch upon your comments. Yes. Because Michael has been zero help to us. He's just putting hoops for us to go over to try to get some kind so that we are not felt discriminated against or set apart from the other historic districts. Thank you. We're happy to talk to you. We just wanted to thank all of you for coming tonight for hearing the presentation. I hope we've answered your questions.

I know that some of the information or maybe all of it uh it's not information on here but we want to make sure that your questions are answered as we said our website that's the best way to we're updating it. We will put this live stream on as well. We have the two virtual meetings which the registration links are on the website and if you have any follow-up questions feel free to write us at uh pddalousing phoenix.gov. Thank you very much.